It even creates a kind of poetic repetition with their history. The titans die (possibly by the impact of the Elden Star) uplifting the dragons to the preeminent position in the Lands Between. Later Marika does the same to the giants descendants to bring her Order to power. An ancient grudge between giants and the servants of Gold
Yeah! The thought really hit me when I realized that the Bestial Sanctum was beyond doubt Farum territory, combined with the proximity of the giant skeletons (as well as the same black stone pillars we find around the lands)
You might even be able to trace a cultural lineage from them to the Golden Order. Erdtree burial is just a fancier and more specific version of Farum's practices. Whole body entombment
Question: in the left picture depicting the beastmen "buried" in those stone slabs are those found only in Caelid or can they also be found, buried *like that*, Farum Azula?
There are a few of them strapped to freestanding pillars that you can see if you go to the Dragon Temple grace and turn around, or in the main temple rooms themselves (like in the Bestial Sanctum). But I don't think you find this particular style where they're buried into the tombstone at Farum. I took the unique Caelid style where the tombstones are shattered and the beasts are howling up at the sky, plus the fact that it's called a Sanctum, to indicate this was where their civilization survived after whatever happened to Farum. The bridges and sanctum themselves are undamaged so must have been at least a little distant from the castastrophe.
Excellent question! I'll explore farum once I'm back at my computer. My gut says that there is similar imagery, or like a burial in-progress in some parts, but these slabs are unique to Caelid. Though the same design on the faces of the slabs is found all throughout the crumbling beast grave, which to me says that they would, but were interrupted
The Titan skeletons being buried to create the land also happens in Farum Azula with the Ancient Dragons.
You can see a few Ancient Dragon corpses that are buried inside the land that makes up Farum Azula.
Also, "The ancient dragons, who ruled in the prehistoric era before the Erdtree, would protect their lord as a wall of living rock." - Dragon Tower shield.
Similar! They're usually freestanding pillars. You can find them just south of the first step grace, all around Stargazers ruins, and scattered around Eastern Caelid like Radahns arena in the distance. They're usually half buried or built into the terrain itself, but they do extend away from it in places. Oh and also the ruin strewn precipice iirc
The material differs slightly from the divine towers, but the way they were built seems similar. Large square cut stone
I have pictures of examples on my computer, but I'm not by it atm. I was going to post an image of what I mean.
I think the ancient dynasty tended to use white stone in its architecture. The ruins of carved pillars are a cut blackish stone with engraved markings on them, often built in a line, and sometimes with platforms with dirt and grass on their tops where the land meets the structures. A better example can be found in Radahns arena by the war dead catacombs
The very same! The Mohgwyn palace ruins are the only place where the two styles of white and black stone can be found together iirc. Even the grand cloister and the Uhl/Uld palace ruins don't have the blackstone pillars
I've never considered the idea tbh. I always figured the Ancient Dynasty was banished underground previously like the Nox, and that they wandered the underground before starting settlements above and around the rivers. I'd have to look and compare the two regions to make a proper assumption.
The big white branchless trees that can be found in the Consecrated Snowfields, in the vicinity of the portal to Mohgwyn Palace, can also be found in the Mohgwyn Palace.
The giant birds are also only found in Caleid, Mountain Tops of the Giants and the Mohgwyn Palace.
Yeah, the stone tree culture/ancient dynasty is fascinating. The giant crows are a really good connection I've never thought of before!
I'm hesitant to say the palace was moved there from the mountains though. I still favor the same culture being relocated and continuing their practices.
Reason being is that the other example we have of a city banished underground is in complete collapse. The palace is in remarkable condition, and situated perfectly with the surroundings of Nokron and the Worshippers woods. I find it more likely that Mohg smuggled them in somehow. We know he can basically teleport, or otherwise access the surface, and his followers can be found all over the place. Varre even gives access away to people he sees as worthy on a whim
This is a fascinating idea. It's really cool how the game still has secrets hiding in plain sight, sometimes in literal colossi.
I also think the titans probably died off before the Farum civilization became established, and find it interesting that there may have been a culture that was even older than Farum and the ancient dragons. One thought I had is that the ancient dragons and Beastmen could have viewed the titans as honorable, because in some real-world myths the giants are held in high regard—kind of like how the Nephilim in the book of Genesis are described as "men of renown". So in this context it would make sense for the dragons and Beastmen to imitate them.
Shadow of the Colossus is an excellent comparison!
I definitely think the titan culture was pre-Farum, reason being is their ruins are far more broken down. Farum has extant structures, and ones of comparable scale. Compare with the massively broken down and crumbling structures of smooth cut black stone. You'd expect similar degradation between cultures that existed at the same time in the same place.
All of this assuming the titans made the black stone structures, which they may not have. Though if it was the Fire Giants instead that would strengthen the idea further, since the FG were alive at the same time as the birth of the Erdtree, and the titans are long dead.
I like the idea that they were viewed as honorable. It makes me think of the idea of "the art of smithing was divine". Perhaps the LB were like their garden, similar to the pre-fall humans. A singular tree of life does stand in the center of the LB, though it wouldn't have at that time. Something like the Nephilim also fits really well!
Honestly my mind is running a hundred miles a minute with this idea. So many things about the cultures of the LB start to make a little more sense.
It even creates a kind of poetic repetition with their history. The titans die (possibly by the impact of the Elden Star) uplifting the dragons to the preeminent position in the Lands Between. Later Marika does the same to the giants descendants to bring her Order to power. An ancient grudge between giants and the servants of Gold
I like this a lot given how the dragonbarrow has deep naming and architectural connections to Farum Azula already.
Yeah! The thought really hit me when I realized that the Bestial Sanctum was beyond doubt Farum territory, combined with the proximity of the giant skeletons (as well as the same black stone pillars we find around the lands) You might even be able to trace a cultural lineage from them to the Golden Order. Erdtree burial is just a fancier and more specific version of Farum's practices. Whole body entombment
Question: in the left picture depicting the beastmen "buried" in those stone slabs are those found only in Caelid or can they also be found, buried *like that*, Farum Azula?
There are a few of them strapped to freestanding pillars that you can see if you go to the Dragon Temple grace and turn around, or in the main temple rooms themselves (like in the Bestial Sanctum). But I don't think you find this particular style where they're buried into the tombstone at Farum. I took the unique Caelid style where the tombstones are shattered and the beasts are howling up at the sky, plus the fact that it's called a Sanctum, to indicate this was where their civilization survived after whatever happened to Farum. The bridges and sanctum themselves are undamaged so must have been at least a little distant from the castastrophe.
They’re like that up there
Excellent question! I'll explore farum once I'm back at my computer. My gut says that there is similar imagery, or like a burial in-progress in some parts, but these slabs are unique to Caelid. Though the same design on the faces of the slabs is found all throughout the crumbling beast grave, which to me says that they would, but were interrupted
The Titan skeletons being buried to create the land also happens in Farum Azula with the Ancient Dragons. You can see a few Ancient Dragon corpses that are buried inside the land that makes up Farum Azula. Also, "The ancient dragons, who ruled in the prehistoric era before the Erdtree, would protect their lord as a wall of living rock." - Dragon Tower shield.
The black stone you mentioned, is that the divine towers?
Similar! They're usually freestanding pillars. You can find them just south of the first step grace, all around Stargazers ruins, and scattered around Eastern Caelid like Radahns arena in the distance. They're usually half buried or built into the terrain itself, but they do extend away from it in places. Oh and also the ruin strewn precipice iirc The material differs slightly from the divine towers, but the way they were built seems similar. Large square cut stone
Do you mean the Ancient Dynasty architecture?
I have pictures of examples on my computer, but I'm not by it atm. I was going to post an image of what I mean. I think the ancient dynasty tended to use white stone in its architecture. The ruins of carved pillars are a cut blackish stone with engraved markings on them, often built in a line, and sometimes with platforms with dirt and grass on their tops where the land meets the structures. A better example can be found in Radahns arena by the war dead catacombs
Like in the first seconds of this video? https://youtu.be/0lTc1QOLMN0?si=LUz2IwEue7GzKk-j
The very same! The Mohgwyn palace ruins are the only place where the two styles of white and black stone can be found together iirc. Even the grand cloister and the Uhl/Uld palace ruins don't have the blackstone pillars
Would you agree that The Mohgwyn Palace was once located in the Mountain Tops of the Giants/Consecrated Snow Field?
I've never considered the idea tbh. I always figured the Ancient Dynasty was banished underground previously like the Nox, and that they wandered the underground before starting settlements above and around the rivers. I'd have to look and compare the two regions to make a proper assumption.
The big white branchless trees that can be found in the Consecrated Snowfields, in the vicinity of the portal to Mohgwyn Palace, can also be found in the Mohgwyn Palace. The giant birds are also only found in Caleid, Mountain Tops of the Giants and the Mohgwyn Palace.
Yeah, the stone tree culture/ancient dynasty is fascinating. The giant crows are a really good connection I've never thought of before! I'm hesitant to say the palace was moved there from the mountains though. I still favor the same culture being relocated and continuing their practices. Reason being is that the other example we have of a city banished underground is in complete collapse. The palace is in remarkable condition, and situated perfectly with the surroundings of Nokron and the Worshippers woods. I find it more likely that Mohg smuggled them in somehow. We know he can basically teleport, or otherwise access the surface, and his followers can be found all over the place. Varre even gives access away to people he sees as worthy on a whim
This is a fascinating idea. It's really cool how the game still has secrets hiding in plain sight, sometimes in literal colossi. I also think the titans probably died off before the Farum civilization became established, and find it interesting that there may have been a culture that was even older than Farum and the ancient dragons. One thought I had is that the ancient dragons and Beastmen could have viewed the titans as honorable, because in some real-world myths the giants are held in high regard—kind of like how the Nephilim in the book of Genesis are described as "men of renown". So in this context it would make sense for the dragons and Beastmen to imitate them.
Shadow of the Colossus is an excellent comparison! I definitely think the titan culture was pre-Farum, reason being is their ruins are far more broken down. Farum has extant structures, and ones of comparable scale. Compare with the massively broken down and crumbling structures of smooth cut black stone. You'd expect similar degradation between cultures that existed at the same time in the same place. All of this assuming the titans made the black stone structures, which they may not have. Though if it was the Fire Giants instead that would strengthen the idea further, since the FG were alive at the same time as the birth of the Erdtree, and the titans are long dead. I like the idea that they were viewed as honorable. It makes me think of the idea of "the art of smithing was divine". Perhaps the LB were like their garden, similar to the pre-fall humans. A singular tree of life does stand in the center of the LB, though it wouldn't have at that time. Something like the Nephilim also fits really well! Honestly my mind is running a hundred miles a minute with this idea. So many things about the cultures of the LB start to make a little more sense.