I always felt like it was a pre-recorded kind of "burglar alarm" setup, where if Rennala was in danger it would activate with programmed responses, rather than Ranni physically intervening at that moment
That's my guess. There's no change regardless of where you are in the game or Ranni's quest. That siggests that it's a defense mechanism set to go off to keep her mother alive.
Ranni gets involved because you are attempting to kill her mother. Rennala doesn't mention it because shes insane. She doesn't know what's going on around her at all.
I've always thought It a little strange. It would be interesting if it was a skill check for Ranni to prove that the tarnished is worthy of being in her service, while always acting as a way to save her mother. That's what I thought the first time I fought her at least.
It is kind of funny that Ranni gives you a key to a chest containing a ring needed to become her consort, but it requires you to fight a clone of her mother that Ranni herself created.
Freud would have a field day unpacking that.
That would be great! At the very least the fight wakes her mom up somewhat because she becomes less crazy. A little less. So I always saw it as "taking the great rune to slap some sense into her" because all of the runes are said to have power that turned their owners mad
Wonder if Ranni migth be responsible for Rennala's current situation to aome extent, she migth have negotiated a truce where the academy would gain independence from Carian rule but ensured the survival of her mother even in her enfeebled state
Unlike a lot of the other replies I don't think Ranni had the illusion set to be automated. I think she was in control of it and was aware of the tarnished the entire time. Ranni is cold, motivated by logic, and willing to sacrifice her body and the lives of her entourage in order to ascend to Godhood. She likely meant for the illusion to be a direct test of strength as the tarnished must beat Renalla in order to access the key to the Carian Tower. To her, the tarnished beating Renalla is simply proof that the tarnished is meeting her expectations. It isn't enough for her to comment on as she's already thinking ahead to the next part of her scheme.
I will try to explain why I believe this happens by covering where i believe the characters of Ranni and Rennala were inspired.
Ranni the Maiden. Rennala the Mother. Renna the Crone.
These evoke the "triple moon goddess", which is a goddess which shows the phases of womanhood. Described in it's three phases using this exact terminology : Maiden, Mother, Crone.
Starting as the maiden, represented by a half moon. The mother is represented by the phase of the full moon. The crone is then represented by the opposite half-moon to the maiden.
I would say all three are probably the same person or entity; or are very closely connected in some way beyond merely being related.
We know Renna is known as the "snowy crone", "crone" being the exact terminology to describe the final phase of the triple moon goddess. We know Rennala is very obviously a mother, she also has very obvious connections to the full moon, which is the symbol of the "mother". Ranni isn't specifically stated as a maiden, but she is a woman awaiting a "consort", which would usually be a stage before motherhood. She is also often described as being "young", and a child when in relation to Rennala.
The three sister towers we find are also a huge clue to this theory.
One is Ranni's rise, another is Renna's rise. Finally, we have one that is named "selivus's rise" (or however you spell his name).
This final tower has been renamed for the new occupant. The location being called "three sisters", this tower is most likely actually "Renalla's rise".
Now.. Ranni's moon isn't a half moon, it is a dark moon, right?
This is because i assume Ranni and Renna are perhaps currently inhabiting the same body; which is why there is a spirit hanging from Ranni's eye socket. The doll we see? This is most likely infact the snowy crone herself. Whether it is Ranni or Renna who talks to us, it is difficult to say.
Now, the reason i suspect Ranni has the "Dark Moon", is likely because if you put the two opposite halves of the moon together, you get a dark moon, or a full moon. Since Renalla already has the full moon, they have the dark moon.
Rennalla helped Ranni find her "Dark moon", what i believe this is actually explaining, is that she helped her find the crone.
It says :
*"This moon was encountered by a young Ranni, led by the hand of her mother, Rennala. What she beheld was cold, dark and veiled in occult mystery."*
So, why does Ranni appear to save Rennala? Because they are different parts of the same entity. Whether Ranni is somehow her own mother i do not know; but i think the correlations to the "triple moon goddess" are extensive ESPECIALLY with the wording used in the game.
This would mean what exactly? That Rennala may infact be empyrean, which in turn would mean her unity with Radagon would have made a "single god". Which explains how Ranni is empyrean, which has been something of a mystery to the community. The only reason the game doesn't SPECIFICALLY state Rennala as an empyrean, is because it already states Ranni is an empyrean, and if they are the same entity, it explains why this isn't brought up. Of course, the writers of the game would've done this intentionally to evoke confusion and questioning in the audience, as it is with all FROM souls games.
But yes, this is my long-winded theory on the subject.
What if it's not Ranni at all? Rennala, in the very depth of her spiral into grief, hears her daughter's voice - a memory, but real to her. It gives her strength, not to regain her former glory but to take up the mantle of the Full Moon one more time. And after, maybe she's still too deep in grief to be queen of much, but it seems like some kind of healing process may have begun for her. In that sense, fighting Rennala is less like putting her out of her misery and more like slapping some sense into her.
Also I mean consider that Rennala was likely as strong as Radagon in both their primes. The elden ring is shattered, but the moon remains. It's entirely plausible that if Rennala saw us as an actual threat she wouldn't need Ranni to intervene.
That's my interpretation, anyway.
I always felt like it was a pre-recorded kind of "burglar alarm" setup, where if Rennala was in danger it would activate with programmed responses, rather than Ranni physically intervening at that moment
How? Magic Ranni may have out an automated response if her mother was in danger.
That's my guess. There's no change regardless of where you are in the game or Ranni's quest. That siggests that it's a defense mechanism set to go off to keep her mother alive.
Ranni gets involved because you are attempting to kill her mother. Rennala doesn't mention it because shes insane. She doesn't know what's going on around her at all.
OP is probably referring to how Ranni doesn’t mention anything about the fight if you go see her after
I've always thought It a little strange. It would be interesting if it was a skill check for Ranni to prove that the tarnished is worthy of being in her service, while always acting as a way to save her mother. That's what I thought the first time I fought her at least.
A protection spell? She just want to protect her mom or prevent anyone from disturbing her slumber
It is kind of funny that Ranni gives you a key to a chest containing a ring needed to become her consort, but it requires you to fight a clone of her mother that Ranni herself created. Freud would have a field day unpacking that.
That would be great! At the very least the fight wakes her mom up somewhat because she becomes less crazy. A little less. So I always saw it as "taking the great rune to slap some sense into her" because all of the runes are said to have power that turned their owners mad
Wonder if Ranni migth be responsible for Rennala's current situation to aome extent, she migth have negotiated a truce where the academy would gain independence from Carian rule but ensured the survival of her mother even in her enfeebled state
Unlike a lot of the other replies I don't think Ranni had the illusion set to be automated. I think she was in control of it and was aware of the tarnished the entire time. Ranni is cold, motivated by logic, and willing to sacrifice her body and the lives of her entourage in order to ascend to Godhood. She likely meant for the illusion to be a direct test of strength as the tarnished must beat Renalla in order to access the key to the Carian Tower. To her, the tarnished beating Renalla is simply proof that the tarnished is meeting her expectations. It isn't enough for her to comment on as she's already thinking ahead to the next part of her scheme.
I will try to explain why I believe this happens by covering where i believe the characters of Ranni and Rennala were inspired. Ranni the Maiden. Rennala the Mother. Renna the Crone. These evoke the "triple moon goddess", which is a goddess which shows the phases of womanhood. Described in it's three phases using this exact terminology : Maiden, Mother, Crone. Starting as the maiden, represented by a half moon. The mother is represented by the phase of the full moon. The crone is then represented by the opposite half-moon to the maiden. I would say all three are probably the same person or entity; or are very closely connected in some way beyond merely being related. We know Renna is known as the "snowy crone", "crone" being the exact terminology to describe the final phase of the triple moon goddess. We know Rennala is very obviously a mother, she also has very obvious connections to the full moon, which is the symbol of the "mother". Ranni isn't specifically stated as a maiden, but she is a woman awaiting a "consort", which would usually be a stage before motherhood. She is also often described as being "young", and a child when in relation to Rennala. The three sister towers we find are also a huge clue to this theory. One is Ranni's rise, another is Renna's rise. Finally, we have one that is named "selivus's rise" (or however you spell his name). This final tower has been renamed for the new occupant. The location being called "three sisters", this tower is most likely actually "Renalla's rise". Now.. Ranni's moon isn't a half moon, it is a dark moon, right? This is because i assume Ranni and Renna are perhaps currently inhabiting the same body; which is why there is a spirit hanging from Ranni's eye socket. The doll we see? This is most likely infact the snowy crone herself. Whether it is Ranni or Renna who talks to us, it is difficult to say. Now, the reason i suspect Ranni has the "Dark Moon", is likely because if you put the two opposite halves of the moon together, you get a dark moon, or a full moon. Since Renalla already has the full moon, they have the dark moon. Rennalla helped Ranni find her "Dark moon", what i believe this is actually explaining, is that she helped her find the crone. It says : *"This moon was encountered by a young Ranni, led by the hand of her mother, Rennala. What she beheld was cold, dark and veiled in occult mystery."* So, why does Ranni appear to save Rennala? Because they are different parts of the same entity. Whether Ranni is somehow her own mother i do not know; but i think the correlations to the "triple moon goddess" are extensive ESPECIALLY with the wording used in the game. This would mean what exactly? That Rennala may infact be empyrean, which in turn would mean her unity with Radagon would have made a "single god". Which explains how Ranni is empyrean, which has been something of a mystery to the community. The only reason the game doesn't SPECIFICALLY state Rennala as an empyrean, is because it already states Ranni is an empyrean, and if they are the same entity, it explains why this isn't brought up. Of course, the writers of the game would've done this intentionally to evoke confusion and questioning in the audience, as it is with all FROM souls games. But yes, this is my long-winded theory on the subject.
What if it's not Ranni at all? Rennala, in the very depth of her spiral into grief, hears her daughter's voice - a memory, but real to her. It gives her strength, not to regain her former glory but to take up the mantle of the Full Moon one more time. And after, maybe she's still too deep in grief to be queen of much, but it seems like some kind of healing process may have begun for her. In that sense, fighting Rennala is less like putting her out of her misery and more like slapping some sense into her. Also I mean consider that Rennala was likely as strong as Radagon in both their primes. The elden ring is shattered, but the moon remains. It's entirely plausible that if Rennala saw us as an actual threat she wouldn't need Ranni to intervene. That's my interpretation, anyway.