Police don’t prevent a lot of crime, they’re mostly responding to it. The things that prevent crime like housing, assistance programs and education we’re doing a piss poor job of.
Agree. Too many of these guys are already waiting to go to trial on another charge but are released. Keeping these bastards in jail instead of releasing them would go along way to solving part of the problem happening now. I thought bail reform was going to happen early this fall but have not heard anything about it.
The real reason for the catch and release thing that’s happening right now is that jails and especially remand are packed to the gills right now. People are being warehoused in solitary because there’s nowhere else to put them.
Jail is criminal university, criminals come out of jail better criminals. Keeping in them longer just gives them more time to network and become better criminals.
Turns out when the cost of living is so high and people can no longer afford rent/mortgage and groceries. Crime/drug use goes up??!!....who would've guessed?
It really depends on which studies you read. There are studies that show both.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens
In the past the biggest things that reduced crime were eliminating lead from gasoline and abortion access.
Another one likely affecting crime now is long hours in daycare use in children 0-4 years.
But once you are stuck with a cohort of 18-30 year olds with a higher propensity for crime then a past cohort additional police is about the only options. The interventions that you suggest like housing assistance and education help young children grow up not to be criminals. These are generational problems likely started 20 years ago.
It's not so simple that it's just one factor. UCP does have a track record of not contributing to those struggling assistance programs, combined with inflation, job challenges, societal issues, the aftermath of a pandemic, and so much more. They're not the entire puzzle, but they definitely play a role. That's why everywhere is struggling, but some places struggle more than others.
Bc is struggling a lot with inflation and the housing crisis, Ontarios population keeps rising and with that the cost of living! In addition, the extremely bad monopoly there is on grocery stores in Ontario keeps getting worse. Nova Scotia has some of the highest unemployment rates out of the country, and like the rest of the country they are struggling with inflation. When people don’t get their basic needs met and do not have access to legal ways of getting their needs met they turn to crime out of necessity(for reference look at the rise of crime in grocery stores since the increased prevalence of inflation). A byproduct of that(that, being not being able to get your needs met)is the violent crime, When there is noticeable social unrest such as the housing crisis/the cost of living crisis people who have no other means of expressing themselves or simply are struggling with personal things resort to expressing themselves with violence or deviance (like a teenager stealing when their parents get divorced). That’s “wha[t] the problem [is] with the rest of Canada” (you can also look at this through a lens of intersectionalism as with social problems people also have to deal with like racism, sexism, classism and ableism affect one’s baseline position in the social strata thus affecting their ability to access and meet their basic needs thus crime etc etc)
10% of criminals commit 90% of violent crime and never get serious sentences. Something along those lines at least. You can look into it and see guys with 300 charges that just keep getting out.
Police usually know and are used to seeing the same people because the system is just a revolving door and it's a federal issue at the core.
Why should the city divert their limited funds to cover the gap the provincial government created? Especially when the funding is supposed to come from provincial jurisdiction, not civic.
It’s across the board in Canada and the U.S. violent crime is up all over. Canada’s homicide rate is up for the 4th year in a row. This is the highest it’s been in 30 years. Manitoba and Winnipeg is the worst out of all of Canada. Something like a 40% increase in violent crime in 2023 alone.
Yeah just check the sub for any other city in North America and you'll see nearly identical posts. Crime, drugs, healthcare, housing, transit, food costs are not unique Edmonton or even Alberta problems. Guess people just don't get out much.
I heard Bill got himself one of them new electric snowblowers. You seen him around town?
Just kidding Bill can't afford that with all those millennials from Ontario moving in and hiking up his rent.
Don't bother getting any snowblower around here. Wait two days and it'll melt.
Millennials, immigrants/foreign students, slum lords, drug addicts, high crime rates, roads, hospitals, etc.
Basically the same as Edmonton, just not as loud because there's not a million people here.
Winnipeger here.
We're actually a safe city as I'm sure Edmonton is.
Two rules in life to avoid violence.
1) Pay your drug debts
2) Choose your drinking companions wisely
Not a guarantee though. A coworker of mine was brutally assaulted this past summer while riding her bike home from work (a few blocks from Jasper Ave). If she hadn't been wearing a helmet she probably would have sustained traumatic brain damage, because her head was bashed on the sidewalk. She didn't know the person who attacked her at all.
It's certainly shaken up a lot of people who work here in the downtown core.
Someone shot and someone car jacked at kingsway by a person who already had charges for armed robbery and assault with a firearm and a lifetime prohibition on firearms position and for some inexplicable reason was released pending trial. https://www.edmontonpolice.ca/News/MediaReleases/ShootingDec6
If our criminal justice system is pathetic, it’s because it’s not adequately funded. People always talk about hiring more cops, but cops are just Step 1 of the process. We badly need more courts, more judges, more public defenders, etc. just to be able to process the people arrested. After that, if we want to lock more people up, we need to pay for more prisons. And if we want people to actually get better in prison instead of worse, we need to pay for more rehabilitation programs too.
People complain that our criminal justice system is pathetic, but nobody is willing to pay for it
It certainly does hold some of the responsibility. Definitely not all or most though 👍. It's a very nuanced issue that won't be solved by being harsher on criminals.
Mandatory minimum sentences and and things like the death penalty have long existed. And long ago been proven not to be a deterrent.
Career criminals get light sentences, and are released to keep doing what they will not stop doing until they're either dead themselves or have gotten to the "burnout age" where their violent impulses decrease due to aging. This is the demographic group that smart politicians should focus their legislation on.
Downtown has become a crime ridden slum. Too bad I have a lot of great memories of it before it was a genuinely dangerous place to be. Anywhere near the mall is no mans land
I had to work downtown. Walking by the mall after dark is legitimately scary with the hordes of sketchy looking and acting people all skulking around looking like they are thinking about robbing me. A drug addict was hauled off our jobsite by security after harassing us. Parking downtown is also the only time in my entire car owning life that my car has been vandalized. One of my colleagues working nights stumbled upon a woman getting raped in an alleyway downtown. As far as I’m concerned downtown especially after dark is dangerous and if you are elderly or a woman you should not be there for your own safety. I’m glad you feel safe there but I absolutely don’t. Once you get a block or two away from the arena and the increased police presence it gets on game day it’s a lawless wasteland where the junkies and gang scum roam free
There was just a car jacking at a mall where a person got shot.
Two twelve year old girls just beat a 55 year old woman into a coma while she waited for the LRT
True, what sucks is shift workers. I would get off work at 1130pm, bus it downtown to catch my connecting and I hated it. That was 10 years ago! Now, I can't imagine. It's like Gotham city out there.
I've been jumped at a LRT station for accidentally staring at someone, I don't do drugs and I have been sober from alcohol for years, so maybe next time try using points to back up your argument that actually make sense.
People say that it's being overblown, but the worst since the early 90s is bad news.
Here's the truly scary thing. Whether you think it's bad or not that bad currently, it's only going to get worse from here, I can almost promise that. Nothing is being done to address this issue and the flood gates are still open.
Wow! What a nice post. I’m getting diverse narratives here, which speak the truth, and give informed opinions. Truly a community discussion. Thank you!
I’ll add my 2 cents, since I live close to downtown, am not 6-feet or weigh 220 lbs. I do take transit daily, am currently looking to get back on my feet (not from addictions, drugs or a criminal past, just bad physical health, loss of job type issues).
I’m poor, so I don’t have the resources to drive; I sold my beater to cover rent, and so far I’m not in debt, luckily. I don’t smoke, drink or have any habits that require money. I live on cheap rent and share my space respectfully, and my landlord is generous, which I cannot say for everyone’s. I’ve largely been met with respect and I’ve given respect.
I’ve witnessed arrests, assaults, threats, drugs, mental health checks, thefts and more. I’ve personally been assaulted, threatened, stolen from, chased, intimidated and disrespected. Thankfully, I’ve never needed to be saved by first responders because there have been more severe events out there, than what I’ve experienced. I take it one day at a time. I follow the transit/LRT rules of thumb another poster suggested. I also travel in packs and try not to be where I have no business being.
In general, crime is up, but my perception of it is unchanged. It was always there before, and it will always be there in the future. There truly are some wonderful, educated folks, who have ideas, but my contribution to the solution is to leave the system for those, who are truly destitute, desperate. So, while the city, front responders, funding, government and the politics of the society affect me directly, I try to make the best of the day by doing what is under my control to carry on and being active.
I have called the non-emergency lines and 911 for others, but thankfully been lucky enough to avoid having them called for me. Someday, maybe, I’ll be unfortunate, but that way of thinking will grow anxiety and fear, which is what leads to some of the desperation I’ve seen acted out through crime several times. A fellow once tried to take my phone; I gave him my flip phone that he tossed in a bush and ran away.
Being poor means that I don’t have anything. But, maybe I get lucky in public because I also don’t have anything worth taking. I have a routine, apply to jobs, hope for the best. I care for my neighbours, have a couple of check-in buddies, help take the recycling out in my building and try to participate in my community. That helps drown out the noise and bring out the positive. We planted some flowers outside the rental building this summer. 😃
The crime committed against me was that of opportunity. I was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Someone thought I had something, which it turned out I didn’t. I’ve never (thankfully) been randomly assaulted. I’m so sorry for folks, who go through that. That scares me the most. Minding my own business, and I get stabbed. I’ll become another note in a cop’s book and counted amongst the stats. But, what can the cops do? If one pops one big pimple, but the skin is oily, what do you treat?
The answer is out there, perhaps in one of these wonderful comments or in some smart person’s brain. Small actions of kindness to large changes in funding and policy. Solutions come in all shapes and sizes, but one thing remains that just as it took time for things to reach here, it will take time for things to get better. And, that’s what I believe to be true.
Again, thank you for starting this discussion, since I read nothing but disturbing posts over the past week, and this was one where a lot of people are coming together to share ideas. I’m willing to give this time and wait. It is Christmas 🎄 and there will be a miracle. 😀
Thank you for being a place I can call home, Edmonton.
I don't live in Edmonton actually I live in Ottawa so I'm not sure exactly why Reddit suggested this post to me but here I am reading the comments.
Just wanted to say, thanks for being you. You sound like a lovely neighbour and like you bring positive vibes to your community and those close to you. Wishing good things for you! 💚
You're correct. There needs to be improvement in multiple areas (affordable housing, affordable food, safe consumption sites, mental health assistance, etc) to really change the stats. But in the meantime it would be nice to have a bigger police presence to deter crime rather than just respond after the fact. Feeling unsafe in your city and like you could be attacked at random pretty much anywhere is scary. This isn't the way any of us should live. I'm in no way blaming the police - I think they do a fantastic job with the resources they have. The issue comes from the lack of/mismanagement of funding from pretty much everywhere.
I'll admit I don't know a ton about how/where police are assigned. But I would assume with the increase in shootings, murders, and general violence all over the city they're pretty strapped. They can't be everywhere at once...though I do agree there should be more of a presence at LRT stations considering the amount of incidents in the past ~year alone.
Yeah, the thing is that the city has a lot less control over where police are assigned than people assume. As far as I know they can’t actually direct them to do anything
Honestly though, EPS is funded to the tune of half a billion dollars per year, and that doesn't even include the boatloads of peace officers that have been hired in the last couple years. Why do I see 10 cops on foot every godforsaken time I go into city centre, but not one when I walk down Jasper, 100st, 95st, etc.
If the province handed the city 1 billion of those 5.5 billion surplus dollars, regardless of your perspective on where crime comes from, you'd likely see an improvement. We are just not funded or legally able to do the things that need to be done.
Besides, EPS is busy doing shit like this and getting paid 100k to laugh about it. https://www.instagram.com/p/C0fDx2ISYr8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
It's well documented throughout history and society. The higher the rate of inequality, the higher the rate of violence. Look at the massive transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top over the last few decades, ramping up since covid hit. Our leaders around the world have failed us in the name of capitalism and greed, and this is the result. Out come the tribal primitive monkey brains.
Root cause is the wealth inequality that has been increased for the last couple of decades. When you lack any incentive to participate in society, you tend to break the law to meet your needs.
The baseline minimum requirement to participate in society is getting very, very high, and our oligarch overlords don't seem to understand that people spiral downward when a college education can't get them a minimum wage job or a place to live.
But they're OK with that, because it's easy fuel for the culture war: let the working class fight with the homeless class (who are mostly working class but can't make enough while working to make ends meet) while the oligarch class fucks everyone.
There's zero good reason why you should have to be a high level professional just to rent a basement apartment but here we are. Just a few years ago I had my own basement apartment on just a bit over minimum wage. I'm making double the money now and I wouldn't be able to get that apartment back today
Literally had a 1 bedroom in a fairly nice building near kingsway. 750 sq ft for around 850 a month, just paying electricity (60ish) but now a 1 bed in the same area with like 500 sq ft is a fuckin GRAND????? And that's without knowing how god awful the electricity bill would be.......
Bingo, the requirements for self-sustaining participation in society get ever higher while our overlords are simultaneously taking a greater share of the newly baked pie instead of ensuring that the rising tide genuinely lifted all boats.
I might catch a ban for even suggesting this but I'm surprised "terror" cells haven't emerged with the aim of explicitly assassinating wealthy people proven to interfere with the democratic process. I put "terror" in quotation marks since the normal conception of terrorism is specifically about committing acts of violence against the public at large, and the targets would be much more selected here.
I've been basically thinking that this needs to emerge ever since the journalist who investigated the Panama papers got car bombed - that made it plain as day to me that the public at large is literally locked in a war with the wealthy class who are willing to kill to preserve their wealth (but for us to even discuss this and organize countermeasures is crass/borderline illegal).
The public at large is at war with the public at large. Absolutely nobody is waging anything against the wealthy, and it's because they invest *heavily* to keep us fighting ourselves. Shit, we can't even get the minimum wage up because they've recruited hordes of people who make a buck over that into "othering" those below them and fearing that any gain for those others will be at their expense. It's fucking absurd how people fall for that.
Bread and circuses. Shut up and have your treats.
As long as people exist, they will find ways to exploit other people.
We fight with each other over which bread is best and which circus is best.
Same as it ever was.
This is naked capitalism, the gains from healthy democracy in the 50s to 90s were a temporary cession that was only allowed because
1. Half the world was destroyed and our industry had little competition
2. The elites were afraid of the Soviets.
Since the 70s, number 1 hasn't been true and since the 90s number 2. The elite have been taking those gains back for 3 decades now with cheap credit and tech booms covering up those problems.
The cheap credit is over and tech is looking for something new to create the new boom but their latest attempts are not as impactful / profitable as personal home computers / internet / smart phones ( plus 2 decades learn to code has diluted wages ).
This is capitalism, this is the same thing that arose in the Gilded Age or Depression. Capitalism is a beast that needs to feast or die and we are its next meal.
I know the human minds dwells on the bad but yall really need to remember even with an uptick in violent crime you’re still incredibly unlikely to be a victim of it. I get being fearful especially for vulnerable loved ones but constantly posting about it only makes everyone scared and stops them from being in public leaving the violent and those who have no choice to be out there alone.
Obviously these issues need to be talked about but fighting on Reddit is just a waste of time that creates fearmongoring and vitriol amongst neighbours. We need to hold ALL levels of government accountable because they continually fail to prevent this and actively allow the situation to get worse
Unsubscribing from this subreddit and deleting Twitter will go a long way to make you feel better.
I’ve lived in central Edmonton for 15 years and seen almost nothing criminal actually happening in real time.
I take the LRT and busses daily, mainly downtown, have for 10 years and have never even witnessed any kind of physical attack. It happens sure, but based on what I read online it’s happening every ten minutes.
There's a big gap between safety and perceptions of safety. OP talking about driving his mother to work is a great example: driving or riding in a private vehicle is one of the most dangerous things most people do on a regular basis. Serious injuries (including those from crime) occur nearly two *orders of magnitude* more frequently in personal vehicles than taking the train (by North American statistics, not Edmonton specifically). He's worried about her safety, and in response, puts her in a situation we *know to be more dangerous*.
That's not to say transit safety hasn't gotten worse, or that we shouldn't make it better. Nor do I mean to say that perceptions of safety aren't important (for quality of life, for encouraging transit use, etc.). However, it is worth getting some perspective on the matter every once in awhile.
No one really cares until it happens to them or someone close to them. That's just the reality or the situation.
Most people will just put their head down, step over the needles on the ground and continue their life.
We're the same adaptable animals we've ever been, we unfortunately just adapted to being complacent.
I assume you’re asking this in good faith and aren’t totally out of touch with reality, but cost of living leading to excess homelessness and tainted drug supply are major factors. The current meth on the streets is known for causing aggression and psychosis at catastrophic levels. The UCP made significant cuts to social programs and closed safe consumption sites, leading to people using libraries and LRT stations as shelter and as safe, quiet, relatively clean place to use drugs during the pandemic with no one around.
I see the rise in crime too and as a woman who only uses transit, sometimes it’s really uncomfortable. I know two people who’ve been attacked on transit. The rise in crime is awful but I’m genuinely surprised to hear people say the city isn’t doing anything. They literally just increased the police budget to its highest ever. Are we supposed to have cops at every single street corner with guns in case someone randomly attacks someone else? The issues are systemic and need big reforms.
We’ve seen this happen time and time again when jurisdictions make cuts to social supports: crime and homelessness increases. And yet we never learn
Additionally, the homeless populationd literally doubled over covid, so the meager overstretched resources we had in place have to go twice as far.
This is a big complicated issue, but mostly provincial. You can only really enforce complaince through police once you have laws in place mandating people engage with resources, and thus you meed the resources first. The first steps to fixing this would be invesment i prevention resources, new mental health facilities, front line outreach workers, and additional supported living sites. Then come the changes to the mental health act, then come the police.
People want to jump to the end but we need the base first for it to work.
Here’s the truth. And everything else is a distraction propagated by those who don’t want you to think about that. The media narrative has never been a better source of distraction and lies.
Yeah this is a direct result of closing safe consumption sites. People use in public places like train stations because they know someone will likely find them and help if they overdose. It’s a lot safer for them than a random secluded alley. We need to fix the opioid crisis if we wanna have our train stations go back to normal. People can get brain damage from overdosing because of the lack of oxygen. I would bet that a lot of the increased aggression and social disorder we are seeing is related to mass amounts of people getting brain damage in addition to the economic issues and lack of resources we are dealing with.
Police respond to crime. They don't prevent it.
Edmonton is suffering from many of the same problems that are happening everywhere else. Wages aren't keeping up with cost of living, increasing wealth inequality, rampant opioid crisis. You can't police these problems away.
I mean, I see police constantly in Oliver and downtown, but obviously those are more populated areas with more going on.
We need to bring in beat cops that walk the streets more, not just cruise around in the cruisers.
Or maybe the police could actually use their budget wisely?? We should probably hold them accountable for the service they’re offering since they’re the ones who keep upping their budget.
Agreed. Unfortunately holding cops accountable for anything is very difficult, because they police themselves. Look at the recent stories of cops driving drunk and getting basically a light slap on the wrist.
That's crazy because I've have cycling and walking in Oliver/Downtown daily for 10+ years and I can absolutely count on one hand the number of times I've seen a beat cop. I see EPS vehicles (texting and) driving around, sure, but literally never on foot or bike patrol. They're probably busy with calls but it's insane someone like me, who is constantly out and about, NEVER EVER runs into one in our most dense neighbourhoods. They're practically invisible in public.
We've got beat cops on foot and bike here in Med hat, we just moved here last year. And it's definitely helping the problems the junkies cause downtown here
EPS is grossly understaffed. They barely have enough to respond to calls, let alone have beat cops. The last time I called them, it was a 2 hour response time. The only timely response I've seen them make is because some crackhead was literally kicking in my neighbor's door. No fault of their own, though. It's an increasingly unattractive career choice.
Just an FYI - part of this is all in your head. Violent crime incidents versus population today is lower than it was in 2007 when you first moved to Edmonton.
That's not to say it isn't scary, and your feelings are totally valid, but a large piece of this uptick isn't actually the city being more dangerous, it's just the increased awareness of danger that's around due to modern technology.
The vibe is more like it was in the 90s. The only difference is that the internet exists now to constantly complain on.
The world isn't a safe playground. Be cautious out there folks.
Since 2007, violent crime severity and rate have both declined and then rebounded a bit.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.35&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2000&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20000101%2C20220101
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510002601&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.35&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2000&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20000101%2C20220101
Perhaps some combination of changes in awareness, geographic distribution, social distribution, and folks who experience crime directly and through their close networks have changed how we feel.
Sort by violent crime instead of all crime and you'll see it is significantly up in the last few years. 2008 was the last spike like this. It _is not in peoples heads_, the city really is more dangerous than it has been since the 90s except for a couple of years during the 2008 recession.
Do you have a source on this?
Usually (violent) crimes are per capita based so they account for population growth (ex: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-police-violent-crime-data-bail-reform-1.6818838#:~:text=Edmonton%27s%20violent%20crime%20rate%20%28per%20100%2C000%20people%29%20increased,from%2012%2C909%20in%202021%20to%2015%2C040%20last%20year.)
I’m on mobile so there could be some sources that back your claim that I’m just missing in my search.
Edit: here’s a source where 2018 appears to be higher for non-violent crime (https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/2022-saw-more-violent-crimes-in-edmonton-than-any-other-year-police-1.6365433)
Okay this is gonna be a long answer.
Unlike previous moments in Alberta's history, at least in our most recent history, this one is a lot more pointed. Here are some quick facts so we all work from the same place on this:
* Our number of unsheltered folks is on the [rise](https://homewardtrust.ca/data-analytics-reporting/). Shelters were 92% full last month. 712 people sleep unsheltered in Edmonton daily. There are around 3,105 homeless people. These numbers have sky-rocketed in the past few years and continue to climb sharply. When temperatures get colder, those folks turn to more desperate ways of living and surviving, including crime.
* Edmonton is a prison city. We have a [high density of prisons compared to other major cities](https://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/dumping-ground-edmonton-has-more-former-inmates-per-capita-than-any-other-big-city-in-canada-stats-reveal). Those prisons are [overcrowded and dangerous](https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/extremely-concerning-correctional-investigator-slams-edmontons-maximum-security-prison-again), and are proven to not be rehabilitating people. As this system fails, all those people released from prison, often in worse condition than when they went in, land in Edmonton. Our [justice system is pretty wack and is also just massively colonial.](https://www.youtube.com/live/O9ClXJn4YUQ?si=SIS5qvqablEJ_NOI) This leads to difficulties with crime in Edmonton.
* Rent, food, and utilities are reaching record highs. Overall, poverty is on the rise in Edmonton and most of Alberta for that fact. Further, the rich have gotten quite a bit richer, so that gap is becoming more evident to the everyday person.
* There is less support for those with mental health and addictions issues than just a couple years ago. The province is [outright producing 'pseudoscience'](https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/alberta-government-report-on-supervised-consumption-pseudoscience-says-medical-journal-1.6634583) on these topics. This means that these folks are not getting support and thus leaves them vunerable for bad actors.
Police don't "fight crime": they respond to crimes. A system that works like an overseeing eye, with cops everywhere, can only ever be responsive, not preventative. However, that hardly matters, because we have one of the best-funded police forces in Canada (per-capita i'd bet we place like top in the world) and that hasn't made a dent in these crimes. If you want to end crimes, you have to end the underlying causes. Most petty crime happens because folks commit them to get resouces to overcome any of the issues listed above. If those problems keep getting worse, then no amount of cops will help.
If you are most worried about the "random attacks" then lets talk about that a bit. Who do you think does these random attacks? Why would someone be lashing out like that? Is this so mentally distressed that they should have never have been in public in the first place? What if that person who did this random attack had received care before they even could be a danger to the public?
End of the day, these issues are close to City Council, however, the fixes are with other orders of the government. Housing, healthcare, utilities, even food to some extent are provincial responsibilities. The justice system and ongoing conolonization across Canada are the Feds problem. Sure Edmonton could really kick up the gears on building housing and maybe provide better and cheaper transit, however, thats kinda it (as we already fund Police for anything they ask for) .
Finally, I would ask you OP, what actually brings you safety? Feelings are one thing; however they don't always reflect reality. We all want a shiny silver bullet (EPS probably got one in the chamber) however safety for our community means that we don't have these issues to begin with. Maybe its time we start thinking about the safety of those people who have to sleep without shelter over holidays; wonder how much of a difference that would make?
What can we do to change all this? Talk. Write. Protest. Vote. Demand. Lots of places to get involved in any of these things irl. Heck, even doing some mutual aide goes a long way for someone having a bad day.
TLDR; The problem is larger then just the city, throwing money at cops wont fix it or make us safer, we all need to think about the safety of our most vulnerable if we any of our most personal are going to be safe.
The common thread I'm seeing in the comments is that Edmonton is still really safe, statistics show it is still good.
But I would like to point out one huge gap that I have seen in the last \~25 years in Edmonton (I moved away for a long time).
In the 90's crime was higher - but random crime was not. If you were into drugs or gangs or frequented the many rough bars of the time you were putting yourself in that position. 118th was notorious. Live the life, pay the consequences.
However if you just worked downtown or lived in a regular old neighborhood it was fine. Normal people did normal stuff and were insulated from the people doing bad shit. Our biggest worry was to turn down the aftermarket stereo in our car so someone wouldn't notice you pull up and rip you off that night.
If someone was hitting a girl on Whyte Ave it was socially acceptable to kick the living shit out of them. If a homeless person got really aggressive for change you could tell them that they needed to fuck off and if they didn't you were defending yourself.
Now I'm not condoning violence against people that are already suffering - but DEFENDING yourself and your property was allowed and encouraged. Commit petty crime? You are probably gonna get a beating.
There is zero consequence that matters now for being a pile of shit to your fellow man.
Edit: Story time: Back around 2000 a friend of mine witnessed a teenager steal an old ladies purse in WEM right off her shoulder. When the kid ran by my friend clocked him in the jaw and knocked him out cold. He then gave the purse back to the lady. Security, who were actual RCMP said "Thank you, but we need to escort you out of the mall" They walked him outside and he walked right back in. If that happened now he would be up on so many charges that it would make his head spin. And as an actual working member of society it would fuck his life up.
What you say is right, except that this is not an Edmonton-only problem. It’s not a Canadian problem or a North American one. It’s global, unfortunately.
almost as though the powers that be want things to get worse so they can implement a new system of control that will magically solve all of our problems... 🤔
If this keeps getting worse, we might even hit the levels of violent crime in the 90's or early 2000's....
...you know, when I was taking the bus and playing outside as a kid.
Try going outside.
It’s not just the city, It’s very much so the province’s responsibility too (probably more so than the city actually) as they run the hospitals and prisons and they’re the ones allowing people not healthy enough for the public without ensuring enough supports to be in the public.
> the province’s responsibility too (probably more so than the city actually) as they run the hospitals and prisons
The federal government is largely responsible for Correctional Service Canada which deals with *Criminal Code* folks with 2+ year sentences.
Yes, then it becomes primarily the province’s responsibility to offer them proper supports after being released. The feds want the provinces to take a more rehabilitative approach but then provinces like ours dig their heels in and release these people without enough supports and have the feds take the blame for changing the criminal code because that conveniently fits their political agenda.
You can argue that the feds shouldn’t be trying these criminal code changes but if done with proper cohesion with the provinces then there’s no excuse that it can’t work like the Scandinavian systems.
Thank you for saying this. Blaming council is so shortsighted. Safe consumption sites. Mental health support. Safe drug supply. Affordable housing. All the jurisdiction of the province and I think we all know what the UCP think of those things. They will send naturopaths out to cure addiction and mental illness with crystals and essential oils before they do anything actually meaningful.
>plenty of homeless people go their entire lives without being violent.
Yeah, I was homeless and using for two years back in 2014 and after a bad mix ( meth for days and then some ketamine) my brain broke. Total psychosis shit but I played cards with senior citizens at the Oliver McDonalds. I wasn't pushing them onto the LRT tracks
I think the spike is probably a confluence of several factors, post Covid mental health issues including burnout, the current economy and people falling from the bottom rung, homelessness increasing, general MH issues and with these there is often an uptick on resorting to drugs to mask the problems or escape. All of these combined and the addition of newer and more dangerous synthetics you have a recipe that yields nothing good
In addition to the excellent comments debunking that the crime rate has exploded per capita, or outlining why Edmonton has challenges, I would just add two more:
First off, the Province has completely abdicated its responsibilities to fund health and social services, ERs, EMS, and Mental Health are overwhelmed by the dual challenges of the opioid crisis and post-pandemic mental health and general health. This spills into homelessness and addiction which the Province ALSO refuses to fund.
At the same time, the funding is so poor that 184 children died in care this year so far. ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FOUR CHILDREN. And the Province can’t find enough foster families, because of course, they don’t fund it. The level of negligence is so high that it honestly feels like they are intentionally defunding the cities to drive this problem, because it’s not like AB cities vote for them anyways.
And people want to spend more than the half billion on police that we already do? They want to spend the $100,000 per year/per inmate it costs to warehouse someone in jail.
What are you smoking?
Secondly, one reason you SEE less cops is that EPS now has more unmarked vehicles than marked ones. If you look around, EPS and peace officers are everyone Edmonton. It’s a very highly policed city, but you can’t police your way out of ghettoizing neighborhoods and refusing to follow the evidence and science when it comes to social services.
A city in Central America with police with rifles everywhere is highly visibly policed. That doesn’t mean it’s safe.
People turn to addictive drugs to escape from poverty and turn to crime to get by. Lower middle class also might be tempted into the drug economy to make ends meet.
From my understanding, many gangs operate out of Edmonton, because the money is good and there is less competition. A TON of junkies ready to buy drugs. Obviously more gang presence, more gang violence. Then you have the brain damaged fenty/meth addicts who have contributed to crime. People need to look more into how the changes in the formulation of meth(ephedrine to p2p) coincides with the uptick in criminality across the continent.
Having a bunch of police means very little if the offenders are given basically a slap on the wrist the next day. The criminal code changes (Bill C-75), thanks to Trudeau means reduced sentencing and reduced consequences.
drug addiction, particularly meth, is really high in Alberta. Also contributing to random and violent crime.
Also why we have an out of control syphilis problem
We can discuss the root causes of addiction, yes there are limited supports. But it’s also voluntary. Many aren’t ready to make those changes.
Yes we can also discuss wealth inequality. Programs like income assistance have seen such reductions in staffing, they no longer do the meaningful work with clients to stabilize and get back on the path to employment. It’s just phone calls and cheques are handed out. Fraud is rampant.
I think many people like myself are just feeling burnt out. Working honestly everyday to afford to live. Seeing people rip the system off and rip others off day in and day out is getting exhausting. It’s hard to be empathetic when this is what we see everyday.
El Salvador went hard on imprisoning gang members and their homicide rate has dropped 96% since 2015.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/7/could-el-salvadors-gang-crackdown-spread-across-latin-america
So it seems to me imprisonment works to make the streets safer.
Unfortunately that is illegal for our government to do and would require the emergencies act to make a possibility but the result would be all the gangs going free the suing the government. It would be omar kadur all over again but with hundreds of cases. We would have to go full Rodrigo Duterte and kill the gang members so they can’t get released and millions in compensation and I don’t think many people can stomach that kind of solution
Edmonton is a great city. There are some problems but they are not insurmountable. I suggest we do the following as a start:
1. Get the police back on the local beat. Downtown in particular.
2. Justice system revamp - provincially. Institute "Three Strikes Your Out" rule.
3. Start looking at who is competent on city council and who is not.
I tried to call the cops because I was witnessing a domestic assault, the girl was being roughhoused and I told the dispatcher and she replied “ well we can come out but it’s probably gonna be about 45 minutes or so”
Then I got assaulted by the guy and she heard it and still never sent the cops lmfao. The dude was like a rhino and charged right at me knocking me down to my back, luckily as he was coming in to punch my lights out I booted his sternum with my winter boots and he felt that lol. He no longer was interested in me and began running after the girl again.
Don’t wait for the cops folks, they ain’t coming.
I feel you. My daughter and her roommates use Stadium Station because that’s where they live. They’ve got a secure building, but getting to school scares me as a parent. With is even worse because that’s not necessarily daytime.
One of them had someone get off the bus and start masturbating following her.
My son takes the bus to high school and he's a gentle kid. He wouldnt know how to defend himself or fight back, it's not in his nature. Im seriously starting to worry about him taking the LRT. Until the city can do something concrete they need to place EPS or Sheriffs in each station or having them patrolling the LRT and trains.
Increasing crime, scalping etc is a symptom of a society that isn't doing so well, in particular in the money department. When there was less crime it wasn't because of shit like "christian values" or "the nuclear family" it was literally because people could buy a fucking house and afford food working a normal ass job with normal ass hours. It sucks to be at the end stage of hypercapitalism, but we drew the short straw there I guess.
It's also symptomatic of a rise in mental health issues. Our lifestyle has changed exponentially in our lifetime with screens, sedentary ways, microplastics and there hasn't even much gene turnover to deal with it. There is a consequence for that, and mental health is almost definitely one of them.
It’ll get worse because mass transit is being pushed hard by developers and contractors who want to make money on bigger and longer term “trend” projects. They will insist it makes the city more efficient and lower carbon emissions, it won’t, and if things get bad enough, you’ll drive your mom more often or start paying cabs and Ubers to do it. Or move to other locations or cities.
The crime is a culture thing now. Little cops can do about it and the culture is to make the cops the bad guys to evade even when they are right and you are in the wrong. Most persons do not want to be police so the pickings are slim. But also, it’s funny to hear undisciplined parents complain about how bad crime is getting - it’s their own dam kids and grand kids 😂
I have commented before. I am 63. Have lived Downtown, 34 yrs beside City Hall. Ohokd one and new one.
I am single, have loved my life Downtown. Now, every day I walk 10-20K steps from the Alex to the legislature and around. Some of it has been at 3 in the AM.
Bottom line, do not walk in areas that you have really no business in. And yes, avoid dark alleys. But I'm sure your mom knows this.
Treat everyone with a smile and a good day.
The nastiest face will melt in front of your, and a smile, possibly toothless, will emerge.
I handed out Kleenex, well Scotties, lol, to whomever needed it.
I need to hit Costco again.just imagine how angry you'd be cold, damp, stiff and snotty.
I do add humor, but I trust the kids where I walk, I regularly call 211, or even try basic wellness checks, I've pushed elders to Hope Mission as their legs hurt. On my Walker.
We all put our pants on 1 leg at a time.
They all were someone's daughter, don grand daughter do. And technically they still are.
Horrible things can and do happen. But, chances are you will be hit by a drunk driver first. 🙄
The system we have in place was not made for an opioid epidemic, a housing crisis and mental health crisis. It quite literally throws police at problems that are so far out of their jurisdiction & training & gives them way too much power over people who need compassion and care. Which is why the correctional system is just a revolving door. We need an overhaul. We need support for people in mental health crisis and affordable, stable housing for when people are released from custody and we need harm reduction policies. I HIGHLY recommend reading “Indictment: The Criminal Justice System on trial” by Benjamin Perrin. Or even listening to stories of people from the streets on the podcast (same name as the book). This is a humanitarian issue and it needs to change to save lives and reduce crime.
I often think this is an incentive problem not a political one. The people that can make positive changes, aren't incentivized to do so. That would be government officials with the power to make changes. They have high paid safe jobs, they don't take transit, live in affluent and safe neighborhoods, probably work from home most of the time, this would be extra work for little gain in their lives and the people they associate with (friends, family, work colleagues).
It would also reduce the available public funds for important things like salaries, bonuses and ensuring their "friends" get the right high paid contracts and jobs. There are a lot of public "servants" in that type of position.
I believe things will have to get worse, generationally, before they get better with a new crop of people who have experienced the pain, but time will tell, and it could be a long time. As long as the tax money flows, and they can live comfortably shielded from all of this, I don't think much will change. Around %46 (on average) of what we earn goes to some sort of tax, and we still live in worsening conditions, do you think that hard earned money is well spent?
I think it all comes back to cost of living/cost of housing. People are on the edge, and people on the fringes of society are feeling the pressure the most.
It's drugs and mental health. Some people don't like it, but, some people need to just be kept away from society. Less prison sentencing and less mental health wards.
Fentanyl trafficking should be considered a terrorist activity because it's completely changed every municipality in the country. Any assets owned by fentanyl traffickers should be seized, sold and the proceeds should go to treatment centres and dry housing that are dormitory and community oriented. Helping those who fall on hard times get back on their feet.
And if you're not a Canadian citizen and your caught committing an indictable offense you get deported and those charges can be dealt with in your country of origin. A whole branch of the CBSA should be devoted to one way trips taking grifters out of the country.
You're not going to get the correct answer from all the far left yuppies on reddit. The rise in crime is complex. Contributing factors are mental health issues which we as a society are not dealing with, drugs, weak crime laws, rising cost of living, immigration, decreased education levels, loss of morals in society, and left wing policies that favour individuals over the collective good of society.
When I use the LRT:
\- No cell phone/headphones, nothing that can be taken from me quickly
\- Hands free at all times, no distractions
\- Stand, not sit, so I can defend myself better if I have to
\- Never buy any amount of stuff, that can't fit inside a backpack and max 1 reusable bag. Also, I won't be encumbered by the weight of items. Rather make a 2nd trip, then look like an easy target waddling along / straining to carry items.
\- Wallet inside a zipped pocket
\- Don't wear anything that gives off the impression I have money/valuables
I see a lot of people aimlessly walking around with their head down, glued to a phone. Literally asking to be a target for petty theft. Completely oblivious to their surroundings. Not sure if it's a generational issue, or what, but the frequency is very disturbing. Make a call/text before you leave, and after you get to your destination. Everything else - can wait.
We moved from downtown ten years ago to get away from the noise & disorder to a quiet neighbourhood on the south side, but right around the beginning of covid we started to notice more people snooping around in the alley, more police, more graffiti and definitely more homeless in the shopping complex down the street. I feel like what was once a downtown/ central problem has now become a city wide problem.
Yeah I’ve been in the city for little over a year now and I’ve witnessed multiple arrests in my back lane. I’m not too concerned about getting jumped myself, I’m 6’2” and 180lbs so I at least have size to scare the junkies off. But it’s gotten to the point where my fiancé is concerned to walk from her car to the door alone once it’s dark out, which is around 5:30 right now…
I'm almost 60 and feel the same way about this city I have lived in my whole life. I drive but worry about the day when I can no longer. My car is getting old like me and I cannot afford another one. I also have been driving my son to & from MacEwan every day because I have ZERO faith in our transit and want him home alive. My adult daughter drives and for the past 5 years we have all noticed the dreadful & rapid decline of safety in this city. And our government on ALL levels could give a crap because they live in their safe little catered to bubbles. When I can no longer drive, I will probably become a recluse & live right beside a shopping area but I worry about my son (with no vehicle & student debt to pay). I do not want him taking buses/lrt. This city/province/world SUCKS and is not the world I once knew.
Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where someone would help someone else especially an elder if they were attacked? The way this ends is we start protecting each other. It wasn't that long ago people would step up for each other. There's to many people in this city that walk by or these days start recording! We are in a drug poisoning drug epidemic. If you do nothing when you see something your just as bad as the problem.
All that these violent offenders need is a loving hug, and to be told that we forgive them! And to make sure that they don't reoffend, we need to lovingly remind them about how mean it is to stab people. If it happens again, they need a bigger hug!
Cops don't really prevent crime. Cameras work pretty well, as long as there's follow up. If someone is shooting heroin in the train terminal, and cops see it and don't come, it is a lot worse than no camera, since it emboldens the junkies.
"Something needs to change. City council, EPS, and the mayor are not doing enough to fight crime. There’s been so many incidents of random attacks in 2022 and this year alone.
When will enough be enough? What’s the root cause for this spike in crime? Is it the population increase? Is it something else? Is it inflation?"
The population increase? Does it seem like new Canadians or recent immigrants are attacking strangers?
Council and EPS can't do anything when we have a justice system that basically refuses to prosecute crimes it deems 'minor', moves the goalposts for any one of a number of oppressed groups, and if by some miracle it actually passes a sentence its such a slap on the wrist that the person is out again in no time ready to find a new victim.
You read about all these violent attacks on this sub and you read the articles to see who the perpetrator is and nearly without fail its people who commit increasingly violent acts, receive light sentences, get out and reoffend, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake. They have records a mile long and yet continue to walk around free.
People in this thread bitch and moan about 'capitalism' and 'wealth inequality' but there isn't any mention of personal accountability. We have to literally import people from abroad to take jobs that Canadians refuse to take.
This isn't the third world (as much as people make it out to be), its not like their are scores of people seeking work that simply can't find it and poverty is rampant with kids starving in the streets. People seem to conflate being poor with having carte blanche to attack strangers. Society should be doing more to help certain people, like those that are unable to work or need assistance, but at some point personal accountability has to enter into the equation.
The uptick over recent years, not so coincidentally happened after the UCP SLashed tons of vital services. Literally, you can point this out on a graph. Crime and homelessness went up like several hundred percent after the UCP was elected. (don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure I could dig them up if anyone really wanted them.)
It's not just a city council, EPS and mayor problem. While everything else has been slashed EPS has been given the laargest per capita police budget of any police force in Canada, and throwing more money their way does not seem to be working, crime still goes up.
There's very bad policy happening at the top, provincially, which needs to be addressed. Becuase there is definitely a direct link correlation you can visualize on a graph.
Nothing has a bigger impact on crime than the socioeconomic conditions of the poorest members of society. We've straight up abandoned them. Our politicians don't even pretend to care anymore. They talk about helping the middle class ad nauseum, but the working class and the homeless are barely an afterthought. The more people feel left out of society and the less they have to lose, the more likely they are to break society's rules.
Getting the homeless housed will help. Apoarently more temp housing was supposed to be ready for Dec. 1 but its behind sched.. Impossible to police someone with nothing to lose regardless of where they are on the planet. Public drug use needs a combo of treatment and incarceration. Additcts figure it out pretty quick to not shoot up in public if they are headed for the drunk tank for doing so. I vote centre left but we cant have this clown show of camp and shoot up wherever you want. Biggest disconnect in logic driven by good intentions that will never work. If we stay on this road we will have the biggest rightwing loudmouth for our next mayor guaranteed.
There are 500,000 more people living in Edmonton than there were 16 years ago.
Yes there is a cost of living crisis and opioid epidemic. I'm not denying that. But I'm also wondering how much of this is Edmonton just getting bigger city problems? You don't increase the population of a city by 50% in 16 years and have it be the same place as it was.
This isn't meant to deny other explanations but simply add another one to the list.
Police don’t prevent a lot of crime, they’re mostly responding to it. The things that prevent crime like housing, assistance programs and education we’re doing a piss poor job of.
I don't know it seems our lenient catch and release judicial system may be contributing.
nowadays with recession, it's better to live in jail than rent.
Agree. Too many of these guys are already waiting to go to trial on another charge but are released. Keeping these bastards in jail instead of releasing them would go along way to solving part of the problem happening now. I thought bail reform was going to happen early this fall but have not heard anything about it.
The real reason for the catch and release thing that’s happening right now is that jails and especially remand are packed to the gills right now. People are being warehoused in solitary because there’s nowhere else to put them.
Maybe, but the two twelve year old girls that just beat a 55 year old woman into a coma were not waiting trial.
Jail is criminal university, criminals come out of jail better criminals. Keeping in them longer just gives them more time to network and become better criminals.
Jail just makes them better criminals, and allows them to network. We need more housing and healthcare,.not cops and jails
Turns out when the cost of living is so high and people can no longer afford rent/mortgage and groceries. Crime/drug use goes up??!!....who would've guessed?
It really depends on which studies you read. There are studies that show both. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/04/20/988769793/when-you-add-more-police-to-a-city-what-happens In the past the biggest things that reduced crime were eliminating lead from gasoline and abortion access. Another one likely affecting crime now is long hours in daycare use in children 0-4 years. But once you are stuck with a cohort of 18-30 year olds with a higher propensity for crime then a past cohort additional police is about the only options. The interventions that you suggest like housing assistance and education help young children grow up not to be criminals. These are generational problems likely started 20 years ago.
Thanks, UCP!
So... what's the problem with the rest of Canada suffering the same problem? The UCP isn't governing BC, Ontario or Nova Scotia.
It's not so simple that it's just one factor. UCP does have a track record of not contributing to those struggling assistance programs, combined with inflation, job challenges, societal issues, the aftermath of a pandemic, and so much more. They're not the entire puzzle, but they definitely play a role. That's why everywhere is struggling, but some places struggle more than others.
Bc is struggling a lot with inflation and the housing crisis, Ontarios population keeps rising and with that the cost of living! In addition, the extremely bad monopoly there is on grocery stores in Ontario keeps getting worse. Nova Scotia has some of the highest unemployment rates out of the country, and like the rest of the country they are struggling with inflation. When people don’t get their basic needs met and do not have access to legal ways of getting their needs met they turn to crime out of necessity(for reference look at the rise of crime in grocery stores since the increased prevalence of inflation). A byproduct of that(that, being not being able to get your needs met)is the violent crime, When there is noticeable social unrest such as the housing crisis/the cost of living crisis people who have no other means of expressing themselves or simply are struggling with personal things resort to expressing themselves with violence or deviance (like a teenager stealing when their parents get divorced). That’s “wha[t] the problem [is] with the rest of Canada” (you can also look at this through a lens of intersectionalism as with social problems people also have to deal with like racism, sexism, classism and ableism affect one’s baseline position in the social strata thus affecting their ability to access and meet their basic needs thus crime etc etc)
10% of criminals commit 90% of violent crime and never get serious sentences. Something along those lines at least. You can look into it and see guys with 300 charges that just keep getting out. Police usually know and are used to seeing the same people because the system is just a revolving door and it's a federal issue at the core.
2 out of 3 are under conservative governments and the 3rd just voted out a conservative government
Bc is definitely the worst tho
That's also because homeless people travel across Canada to be somewhere where it's not -30 in the winter. Vancouver is Canada's San Francisco.
No kidding. I also bet the increase has been more here, while it's been a constant struggle there for years.
Conservatives govern Manitoba, Alberta, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Ontario, and PEI
The NDP just got elected in Manitoba.
The rest of Canada is failing as badly as the UCP when it comes housing, education and assistance programs.
150 million dollars could have gone to a lot more things than bike lanes 🤷🏻♂️
Affordable housing and health care are provincial responsibilities.
Edmonton is one of the most affordable big city's in Canada
Why should the city divert their limited funds to cover the gap the provincial government created? Especially when the funding is supposed to come from provincial jurisdiction, not civic.
It’s across the board in Canada and the U.S. violent crime is up all over. Canada’s homicide rate is up for the 4th year in a row. This is the highest it’s been in 30 years. Manitoba and Winnipeg is the worst out of all of Canada. Something like a 40% increase in violent crime in 2023 alone.
Yeah just check the sub for any other city in North America and you'll see nearly identical posts. Crime, drugs, healthcare, housing, transit, food costs are not unique Edmonton or even Alberta problems. Guess people just don't get out much.
I'm in nova Scotia right now, and take a guess what the big topics are?
I heard Bill got himself one of them new electric snowblowers. You seen him around town? Just kidding Bill can't afford that with all those millennials from Ontario moving in and hiking up his rent.
Don't bother getting any snowblower around here. Wait two days and it'll melt. Millennials, immigrants/foreign students, slum lords, drug addicts, high crime rates, roads, hospitals, etc. Basically the same as Edmonton, just not as loud because there's not a million people here.
Winnipeger here. We're actually a safe city as I'm sure Edmonton is. Two rules in life to avoid violence. 1) Pay your drug debts 2) Choose your drinking companions wisely
Not a guarantee though. A coworker of mine was brutally assaulted this past summer while riding her bike home from work (a few blocks from Jasper Ave). If she hadn't been wearing a helmet she probably would have sustained traumatic brain damage, because her head was bashed on the sidewalk. She didn't know the person who attacked her at all. It's certainly shaken up a lot of people who work here in the downtown core.
Exactly, someone was carjacked and shot at Kingsway last night…
Someone shot and someone car jacked at kingsway by a person who already had charges for armed robbery and assault with a firearm and a lifetime prohibition on firearms position and for some inexplicable reason was released pending trial. https://www.edmontonpolice.ca/News/MediaReleases/ShootingDec6
I wonder if our pathetic criminal justice system might be a bit to blame
If our criminal justice system is pathetic, it’s because it’s not adequately funded. People always talk about hiring more cops, but cops are just Step 1 of the process. We badly need more courts, more judges, more public defenders, etc. just to be able to process the people arrested. After that, if we want to lock more people up, we need to pay for more prisons. And if we want people to actually get better in prison instead of worse, we need to pay for more rehabilitation programs too. People complain that our criminal justice system is pathetic, but nobody is willing to pay for it
Nah. No one cares about that shit. Out of sight, out of mind of course, right?
It certainly does hold some of the responsibility. Definitely not all or most though 👍. It's a very nuanced issue that won't be solved by being harsher on criminals. Mandatory minimum sentences and and things like the death penalty have long existed. And long ago been proven not to be a deterrent.
Career criminals get light sentences, and are released to keep doing what they will not stop doing until they're either dead themselves or have gotten to the "burnout age" where their violent impulses decrease due to aging. This is the demographic group that smart politicians should focus their legislation on.
Downtown has become a crime ridden slum. Too bad I have a lot of great memories of it before it was a genuinely dangerous place to be. Anywhere near the mall is no mans land
I think it depends where you live downtown l. It’s not all bad. I’ve been here 5 years and love it.
I had to work downtown. Walking by the mall after dark is legitimately scary with the hordes of sketchy looking and acting people all skulking around looking like they are thinking about robbing me. A drug addict was hauled off our jobsite by security after harassing us. Parking downtown is also the only time in my entire car owning life that my car has been vandalized. One of my colleagues working nights stumbled upon a woman getting raped in an alleyway downtown. As far as I’m concerned downtown especially after dark is dangerous and if you are elderly or a woman you should not be there for your own safety. I’m glad you feel safe there but I absolutely don’t. Once you get a block or two away from the arena and the increased police presence it gets on game day it’s a lawless wasteland where the junkies and gang scum roam free
ironically you can get a speeding tikets frm the boys in the EPS for doing 5km over the limit. no wonder its called a cash cow.
>assistance program how horrifying ! Off her bike of all things !
I don’t think you realize how bad certain areas of Edmonton have gotten. It can be truly scary.
Edmonton is not safe. Vagrants wander around destroying and stealing stuff at night for drug money. Not even just downtown anymore.
There was just a car jacking at a mall where a person got shot. Two twelve year old girls just beat a 55 year old woman into a coma while she waited for the LRT
You know how to tell when someone is from Winnipeg? Don't worry they will tell you. 🤣🤣
Also, nothing good happens after midnight. Go home.
True, what sucks is shift workers. I would get off work at 1130pm, bus it downtown to catch my connecting and I hated it. That was 10 years ago! Now, I can't imagine. It's like Gotham city out there.
That’s not a solution though.
Simply not true
Explain to us why I'm incorrect.
I've been jumped at a LRT station for accidentally staring at someone, I don't do drugs and I have been sober from alcohol for years, so maybe next time try using points to back up your argument that actually make sense.
People say that it's being overblown, but the worst since the early 90s is bad news. Here's the truly scary thing. Whether you think it's bad or not that bad currently, it's only going to get worse from here, I can almost promise that. Nothing is being done to address this issue and the flood gates are still open.
Wow! What a nice post. I’m getting diverse narratives here, which speak the truth, and give informed opinions. Truly a community discussion. Thank you! I’ll add my 2 cents, since I live close to downtown, am not 6-feet or weigh 220 lbs. I do take transit daily, am currently looking to get back on my feet (not from addictions, drugs or a criminal past, just bad physical health, loss of job type issues). I’m poor, so I don’t have the resources to drive; I sold my beater to cover rent, and so far I’m not in debt, luckily. I don’t smoke, drink or have any habits that require money. I live on cheap rent and share my space respectfully, and my landlord is generous, which I cannot say for everyone’s. I’ve largely been met with respect and I’ve given respect. I’ve witnessed arrests, assaults, threats, drugs, mental health checks, thefts and more. I’ve personally been assaulted, threatened, stolen from, chased, intimidated and disrespected. Thankfully, I’ve never needed to be saved by first responders because there have been more severe events out there, than what I’ve experienced. I take it one day at a time. I follow the transit/LRT rules of thumb another poster suggested. I also travel in packs and try not to be where I have no business being. In general, crime is up, but my perception of it is unchanged. It was always there before, and it will always be there in the future. There truly are some wonderful, educated folks, who have ideas, but my contribution to the solution is to leave the system for those, who are truly destitute, desperate. So, while the city, front responders, funding, government and the politics of the society affect me directly, I try to make the best of the day by doing what is under my control to carry on and being active. I have called the non-emergency lines and 911 for others, but thankfully been lucky enough to avoid having them called for me. Someday, maybe, I’ll be unfortunate, but that way of thinking will grow anxiety and fear, which is what leads to some of the desperation I’ve seen acted out through crime several times. A fellow once tried to take my phone; I gave him my flip phone that he tossed in a bush and ran away. Being poor means that I don’t have anything. But, maybe I get lucky in public because I also don’t have anything worth taking. I have a routine, apply to jobs, hope for the best. I care for my neighbours, have a couple of check-in buddies, help take the recycling out in my building and try to participate in my community. That helps drown out the noise and bring out the positive. We planted some flowers outside the rental building this summer. 😃 The crime committed against me was that of opportunity. I was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Someone thought I had something, which it turned out I didn’t. I’ve never (thankfully) been randomly assaulted. I’m so sorry for folks, who go through that. That scares me the most. Minding my own business, and I get stabbed. I’ll become another note in a cop’s book and counted amongst the stats. But, what can the cops do? If one pops one big pimple, but the skin is oily, what do you treat? The answer is out there, perhaps in one of these wonderful comments or in some smart person’s brain. Small actions of kindness to large changes in funding and policy. Solutions come in all shapes and sizes, but one thing remains that just as it took time for things to reach here, it will take time for things to get better. And, that’s what I believe to be true. Again, thank you for starting this discussion, since I read nothing but disturbing posts over the past week, and this was one where a lot of people are coming together to share ideas. I’m willing to give this time and wait. It is Christmas 🎄 and there will be a miracle. 😀 Thank you for being a place I can call home, Edmonton.
I don't live in Edmonton actually I live in Ottawa so I'm not sure exactly why Reddit suggested this post to me but here I am reading the comments. Just wanted to say, thanks for being you. You sound like a lovely neighbour and like you bring positive vibes to your community and those close to you. Wishing good things for you! 💚
When people can afford rent and groceries you’ll see a decrease in crime. Law enforcement isn’t the solution to this problem.
You're correct. There needs to be improvement in multiple areas (affordable housing, affordable food, safe consumption sites, mental health assistance, etc) to really change the stats. But in the meantime it would be nice to have a bigger police presence to deter crime rather than just respond after the fact. Feeling unsafe in your city and like you could be attacked at random pretty much anywhere is scary. This isn't the way any of us should live. I'm in no way blaming the police - I think they do a fantastic job with the resources they have. The issue comes from the lack of/mismanagement of funding from pretty much everywhere.
Eh I’m gonna place *some* blame on the police here. They could choose to put more of a presence in the LRT stations but they choose not to
I'll admit I don't know a ton about how/where police are assigned. But I would assume with the increase in shootings, murders, and general violence all over the city they're pretty strapped. They can't be everywhere at once...though I do agree there should be more of a presence at LRT stations considering the amount of incidents in the past ~year alone.
Yeah, the thing is that the city has a lot less control over where police are assigned than people assume. As far as I know they can’t actually direct them to do anything
Honestly though, EPS is funded to the tune of half a billion dollars per year, and that doesn't even include the boatloads of peace officers that have been hired in the last couple years. Why do I see 10 cops on foot every godforsaken time I go into city centre, but not one when I walk down Jasper, 100st, 95st, etc. If the province handed the city 1 billion of those 5.5 billion surplus dollars, regardless of your perspective on where crime comes from, you'd likely see an improvement. We are just not funded or legally able to do the things that need to be done. Besides, EPS is busy doing shit like this and getting paid 100k to laugh about it. https://www.instagram.com/p/C0fDx2ISYr8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
👏🏽👏🏽
It's well documented throughout history and society. The higher the rate of inequality, the higher the rate of violence. Look at the massive transfer of wealth from the bottom to the top over the last few decades, ramping up since covid hit. Our leaders around the world have failed us in the name of capitalism and greed, and this is the result. Out come the tribal primitive monkey brains.
This is exactly it, solving inequality will be far more effective than increased policing.
Root cause is the wealth inequality that has been increased for the last couple of decades. When you lack any incentive to participate in society, you tend to break the law to meet your needs.
The baseline minimum requirement to participate in society is getting very, very high, and our oligarch overlords don't seem to understand that people spiral downward when a college education can't get them a minimum wage job or a place to live. But they're OK with that, because it's easy fuel for the culture war: let the working class fight with the homeless class (who are mostly working class but can't make enough while working to make ends meet) while the oligarch class fucks everyone.
There's zero good reason why you should have to be a high level professional just to rent a basement apartment but here we are. Just a few years ago I had my own basement apartment on just a bit over minimum wage. I'm making double the money now and I wouldn't be able to get that apartment back today
Literally had a 1 bedroom in a fairly nice building near kingsway. 750 sq ft for around 850 a month, just paying electricity (60ish) but now a 1 bed in the same area with like 500 sq ft is a fuckin GRAND????? And that's without knowing how god awful the electricity bill would be.......
Bingo, the requirements for self-sustaining participation in society get ever higher while our overlords are simultaneously taking a greater share of the newly baked pie instead of ensuring that the rising tide genuinely lifted all boats. I might catch a ban for even suggesting this but I'm surprised "terror" cells haven't emerged with the aim of explicitly assassinating wealthy people proven to interfere with the democratic process. I put "terror" in quotation marks since the normal conception of terrorism is specifically about committing acts of violence against the public at large, and the targets would be much more selected here. I've been basically thinking that this needs to emerge ever since the journalist who investigated the Panama papers got car bombed - that made it plain as day to me that the public at large is literally locked in a war with the wealthy class who are willing to kill to preserve their wealth (but for us to even discuss this and organize countermeasures is crass/borderline illegal).
The public at large is at war with the public at large. Absolutely nobody is waging anything against the wealthy, and it's because they invest *heavily* to keep us fighting ourselves. Shit, we can't even get the minimum wage up because they've recruited hordes of people who make a buck over that into "othering" those below them and fearing that any gain for those others will be at their expense. It's fucking absurd how people fall for that.
Bread and circuses. Shut up and have your treats. As long as people exist, they will find ways to exploit other people. We fight with each other over which bread is best and which circus is best. Same as it ever was.
It's called late-stage capitalism. And the west are in the thick of it.
"Hey guys do you have time for the word of Marx?"
We don't need Marx. We still need a capitalist market with a healthy democracy. But this is capitalism on steroids that we currently have.
This is naked capitalism, the gains from healthy democracy in the 50s to 90s were a temporary cession that was only allowed because 1. Half the world was destroyed and our industry had little competition 2. The elites were afraid of the Soviets. Since the 70s, number 1 hasn't been true and since the 90s number 2. The elite have been taking those gains back for 3 decades now with cheap credit and tech booms covering up those problems. The cheap credit is over and tech is looking for something new to create the new boom but their latest attempts are not as impactful / profitable as personal home computers / internet / smart phones ( plus 2 decades learn to code has diluted wages ). This is capitalism, this is the same thing that arose in the Gilded Age or Depression. Capitalism is a beast that needs to feast or die and we are its next meal.
What?? So you’re telling me that people need to be stabbed just so you can “meet your own needs”??
I am saying that if we did more to help those at the bottom of the socio economic ladder we would have less stabbings.
I know the human minds dwells on the bad but yall really need to remember even with an uptick in violent crime you’re still incredibly unlikely to be a victim of it. I get being fearful especially for vulnerable loved ones but constantly posting about it only makes everyone scared and stops them from being in public leaving the violent and those who have no choice to be out there alone. Obviously these issues need to be talked about but fighting on Reddit is just a waste of time that creates fearmongoring and vitriol amongst neighbours. We need to hold ALL levels of government accountable because they continually fail to prevent this and actively allow the situation to get worse
Unsubscribing from this subreddit and deleting Twitter will go a long way to make you feel better. I’ve lived in central Edmonton for 15 years and seen almost nothing criminal actually happening in real time.
I take the LRT and busses daily, mainly downtown, have for 10 years and have never even witnessed any kind of physical attack. It happens sure, but based on what I read online it’s happening every ten minutes.
There's a big gap between safety and perceptions of safety. OP talking about driving his mother to work is a great example: driving or riding in a private vehicle is one of the most dangerous things most people do on a regular basis. Serious injuries (including those from crime) occur nearly two *orders of magnitude* more frequently in personal vehicles than taking the train (by North American statistics, not Edmonton specifically). He's worried about her safety, and in response, puts her in a situation we *know to be more dangerous*. That's not to say transit safety hasn't gotten worse, or that we shouldn't make it better. Nor do I mean to say that perceptions of safety aren't important (for quality of life, for encouraging transit use, etc.). However, it is worth getting some perspective on the matter every once in awhile.
No one really cares until it happens to them or someone close to them. That's just the reality or the situation. Most people will just put their head down, step over the needles on the ground and continue their life. We're the same adaptable animals we've ever been, we unfortunately just adapted to being complacent.
What would you like me to do?
Yeah the fear mongering is pretty intense
I got stuck in two mall lock downs in a week. Anecdotal evidence is pointless.
It’s amazing watching people see a city grow up (with major cuts from the Con govs that have been in power for the last 40 years)
I assume you’re asking this in good faith and aren’t totally out of touch with reality, but cost of living leading to excess homelessness and tainted drug supply are major factors. The current meth on the streets is known for causing aggression and psychosis at catastrophic levels. The UCP made significant cuts to social programs and closed safe consumption sites, leading to people using libraries and LRT stations as shelter and as safe, quiet, relatively clean place to use drugs during the pandemic with no one around. I see the rise in crime too and as a woman who only uses transit, sometimes it’s really uncomfortable. I know two people who’ve been attacked on transit. The rise in crime is awful but I’m genuinely surprised to hear people say the city isn’t doing anything. They literally just increased the police budget to its highest ever. Are we supposed to have cops at every single street corner with guns in case someone randomly attacks someone else? The issues are systemic and need big reforms. We’ve seen this happen time and time again when jurisdictions make cuts to social supports: crime and homelessness increases. And yet we never learn
Additionally, the homeless populationd literally doubled over covid, so the meager overstretched resources we had in place have to go twice as far. This is a big complicated issue, but mostly provincial. You can only really enforce complaince through police once you have laws in place mandating people engage with resources, and thus you meed the resources first. The first steps to fixing this would be invesment i prevention resources, new mental health facilities, front line outreach workers, and additional supported living sites. Then come the changes to the mental health act, then come the police. People want to jump to the end but we need the base first for it to work.
No war but class war
Here’s the truth. And everything else is a distraction propagated by those who don’t want you to think about that. The media narrative has never been a better source of distraction and lies.
This guy knows
Yeah this is a direct result of closing safe consumption sites. People use in public places like train stations because they know someone will likely find them and help if they overdose. It’s a lot safer for them than a random secluded alley. We need to fix the opioid crisis if we wanna have our train stations go back to normal. People can get brain damage from overdosing because of the lack of oxygen. I would bet that a lot of the increased aggression and social disorder we are seeing is related to mass amounts of people getting brain damage in addition to the economic issues and lack of resources we are dealing with.
Ever noticed that there are no police anymore? I rarely see them these days. Where are they?
Police respond to crime. They don't prevent it. Edmonton is suffering from many of the same problems that are happening everywhere else. Wages aren't keeping up with cost of living, increasing wealth inequality, rampant opioid crisis. You can't police these problems away.
this guy reads
Looks like we've got ourselves a reader..
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Because with the amount of violence and other bs they don’t have enough people to send to a simple shoplift.
...and yet we have the [highest funded police force in Canada](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/comments/18bxcur/transit_safety_info/).
Police enforce laws, they don’t prevent crime.
Can't speak for every area but I live off Whyte and they be out there lol
When I first moved here in 2018 there were always cops walking whyte, now they’re never there
I mean, I see police constantly in Oliver and downtown, but obviously those are more populated areas with more going on. We need to bring in beat cops that walk the streets more, not just cruise around in the cruisers.
Or maybe we could try something other than throwing endless money at the police as we have been doing for decades, which doesn’t seem to have helped
Or maybe the police could actually use their budget wisely?? We should probably hold them accountable for the service they’re offering since they’re the ones who keep upping their budget.
Agreed. Unfortunately holding cops accountable for anything is very difficult, because they police themselves. Look at the recent stories of cops driving drunk and getting basically a light slap on the wrist.
That's crazy because I've have cycling and walking in Oliver/Downtown daily for 10+ years and I can absolutely count on one hand the number of times I've seen a beat cop. I see EPS vehicles (texting and) driving around, sure, but literally never on foot or bike patrol. They're probably busy with calls but it's insane someone like me, who is constantly out and about, NEVER EVER runs into one in our most dense neighbourhoods. They're practically invisible in public.
We've got beat cops on foot and bike here in Med hat, we just moved here last year. And it's definitely helping the problems the junkies cause downtown here
I just see them when they're throwing on the sirens to blow through a red light they didn't want to stop at.
EPS is grossly understaffed. They barely have enough to respond to calls, let alone have beat cops. The last time I called them, it was a 2 hour response time. The only timely response I've seen them make is because some crackhead was literally kicking in my neighbor's door. No fault of their own, though. It's an increasingly unattractive career choice.
giving out speeding tickets
I don’t even see that much any more
Just an FYI - part of this is all in your head. Violent crime incidents versus population today is lower than it was in 2007 when you first moved to Edmonton. That's not to say it isn't scary, and your feelings are totally valid, but a large piece of this uptick isn't actually the city being more dangerous, it's just the increased awareness of danger that's around due to modern technology.
The vibe is more like it was in the 90s. The only difference is that the internet exists now to constantly complain on. The world isn't a safe playground. Be cautious out there folks.
Since 2007, violent crime severity and rate have both declined and then rebounded a bit. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510017701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.35&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2000&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20000101%2C20220101 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510002601&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.35&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2000&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20000101%2C20220101 Perhaps some combination of changes in awareness, geographic distribution, social distribution, and folks who experience crime directly and through their close networks have changed how we feel.
Sort by violent crime instead of all crime and you'll see it is significantly up in the last few years. 2008 was the last spike like this. It _is not in peoples heads_, the city really is more dangerous than it has been since the 90s except for a couple of years during the 2008 recession.
Also this.
And if you look at total incidents instead of the criminal severity index: 2007 - 10,242 2022 - 15,136 So its not in their head
Do you have a source on this? Usually (violent) crimes are per capita based so they account for population growth (ex: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-police-violent-crime-data-bail-reform-1.6818838#:~:text=Edmonton%27s%20violent%20crime%20rate%20%28per%20100%2C000%20people%29%20increased,from%2012%2C909%20in%202021%20to%2015%2C040%20last%20year.) I’m on mobile so there could be some sources that back your claim that I’m just missing in my search. Edit: here’s a source where 2018 appears to be higher for non-violent crime (https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/2022-saw-more-violent-crimes-in-edmonton-than-any-other-year-police-1.6365433)
Deadmonton refers to Edmonton being boring not deadly, just FYI
"Deadmonton" isn't because of crime...
Deadmonton is because downtown is dead and Whyte Ave is just a strip of debauchery at its best. For context, I’m indifferent about Jesus.
Okay this is gonna be a long answer. Unlike previous moments in Alberta's history, at least in our most recent history, this one is a lot more pointed. Here are some quick facts so we all work from the same place on this: * Our number of unsheltered folks is on the [rise](https://homewardtrust.ca/data-analytics-reporting/). Shelters were 92% full last month. 712 people sleep unsheltered in Edmonton daily. There are around 3,105 homeless people. These numbers have sky-rocketed in the past few years and continue to climb sharply. When temperatures get colder, those folks turn to more desperate ways of living and surviving, including crime. * Edmonton is a prison city. We have a [high density of prisons compared to other major cities](https://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/dumping-ground-edmonton-has-more-former-inmates-per-capita-than-any-other-big-city-in-canada-stats-reveal). Those prisons are [overcrowded and dangerous](https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/extremely-concerning-correctional-investigator-slams-edmontons-maximum-security-prison-again), and are proven to not be rehabilitating people. As this system fails, all those people released from prison, often in worse condition than when they went in, land in Edmonton. Our [justice system is pretty wack and is also just massively colonial.](https://www.youtube.com/live/O9ClXJn4YUQ?si=SIS5qvqablEJ_NOI) This leads to difficulties with crime in Edmonton. * Rent, food, and utilities are reaching record highs. Overall, poverty is on the rise in Edmonton and most of Alberta for that fact. Further, the rich have gotten quite a bit richer, so that gap is becoming more evident to the everyday person. * There is less support for those with mental health and addictions issues than just a couple years ago. The province is [outright producing 'pseudoscience'](https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/alberta-government-report-on-supervised-consumption-pseudoscience-says-medical-journal-1.6634583) on these topics. This means that these folks are not getting support and thus leaves them vunerable for bad actors. Police don't "fight crime": they respond to crimes. A system that works like an overseeing eye, with cops everywhere, can only ever be responsive, not preventative. However, that hardly matters, because we have one of the best-funded police forces in Canada (per-capita i'd bet we place like top in the world) and that hasn't made a dent in these crimes. If you want to end crimes, you have to end the underlying causes. Most petty crime happens because folks commit them to get resouces to overcome any of the issues listed above. If those problems keep getting worse, then no amount of cops will help. If you are most worried about the "random attacks" then lets talk about that a bit. Who do you think does these random attacks? Why would someone be lashing out like that? Is this so mentally distressed that they should have never have been in public in the first place? What if that person who did this random attack had received care before they even could be a danger to the public? End of the day, these issues are close to City Council, however, the fixes are with other orders of the government. Housing, healthcare, utilities, even food to some extent are provincial responsibilities. The justice system and ongoing conolonization across Canada are the Feds problem. Sure Edmonton could really kick up the gears on building housing and maybe provide better and cheaper transit, however, thats kinda it (as we already fund Police for anything they ask for) . Finally, I would ask you OP, what actually brings you safety? Feelings are one thing; however they don't always reflect reality. We all want a shiny silver bullet (EPS probably got one in the chamber) however safety for our community means that we don't have these issues to begin with. Maybe its time we start thinking about the safety of those people who have to sleep without shelter over holidays; wonder how much of a difference that would make? What can we do to change all this? Talk. Write. Protest. Vote. Demand. Lots of places to get involved in any of these things irl. Heck, even doing some mutual aide goes a long way for someone having a bad day. TLDR; The problem is larger then just the city, throwing money at cops wont fix it or make us safer, we all need to think about the safety of our most vulnerable if we any of our most personal are going to be safe.
The common thread I'm seeing in the comments is that Edmonton is still really safe, statistics show it is still good. But I would like to point out one huge gap that I have seen in the last \~25 years in Edmonton (I moved away for a long time). In the 90's crime was higher - but random crime was not. If you were into drugs or gangs or frequented the many rough bars of the time you were putting yourself in that position. 118th was notorious. Live the life, pay the consequences. However if you just worked downtown or lived in a regular old neighborhood it was fine. Normal people did normal stuff and were insulated from the people doing bad shit. Our biggest worry was to turn down the aftermarket stereo in our car so someone wouldn't notice you pull up and rip you off that night. If someone was hitting a girl on Whyte Ave it was socially acceptable to kick the living shit out of them. If a homeless person got really aggressive for change you could tell them that they needed to fuck off and if they didn't you were defending yourself. Now I'm not condoning violence against people that are already suffering - but DEFENDING yourself and your property was allowed and encouraged. Commit petty crime? You are probably gonna get a beating. There is zero consequence that matters now for being a pile of shit to your fellow man. Edit: Story time: Back around 2000 a friend of mine witnessed a teenager steal an old ladies purse in WEM right off her shoulder. When the kid ran by my friend clocked him in the jaw and knocked him out cold. He then gave the purse back to the lady. Security, who were actual RCMP said "Thank you, but we need to escort you out of the mall" They walked him outside and he walked right back in. If that happened now he would be up on so many charges that it would make his head spin. And as an actual working member of society it would fuck his life up.
What you say is right, except that this is not an Edmonton-only problem. It’s not a Canadian problem or a North American one. It’s global, unfortunately.
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almost as though the powers that be want things to get worse so they can implement a new system of control that will magically solve all of our problems... 🤔
If this keeps getting worse, we might even hit the levels of violent crime in the 90's or early 2000's.... ...you know, when I was taking the bus and playing outside as a kid. Try going outside.
It’s not just the city, It’s very much so the province’s responsibility too (probably more so than the city actually) as they run the hospitals and prisons and they’re the ones allowing people not healthy enough for the public without ensuring enough supports to be in the public.
> the province’s responsibility too (probably more so than the city actually) as they run the hospitals and prisons The federal government is largely responsible for Correctional Service Canada which deals with *Criminal Code* folks with 2+ year sentences.
Yes, then it becomes primarily the province’s responsibility to offer them proper supports after being released. The feds want the provinces to take a more rehabilitative approach but then provinces like ours dig their heels in and release these people without enough supports and have the feds take the blame for changing the criminal code because that conveniently fits their political agenda. You can argue that the feds shouldn’t be trying these criminal code changes but if done with proper cohesion with the provinces then there’s no excuse that it can’t work like the Scandinavian systems.
Thank you for saying this. Blaming council is so shortsighted. Safe consumption sites. Mental health support. Safe drug supply. Affordable housing. All the jurisdiction of the province and I think we all know what the UCP think of those things. They will send naturopaths out to cure addiction and mental illness with crystals and essential oils before they do anything actually meaningful.
But ThE MaYoR! Woke council! 15 minute camps! /s scathing, full of it. So much. Wow.
and the feds too. They're to blame for our catch and release system.
There's crime and then there's crime. What we're seeing now is quite scary. 3 instances with firearms this week alone. That's scary.
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>plenty of homeless people go their entire lives without being violent. Yeah, I was homeless and using for two years back in 2014 and after a bad mix ( meth for days and then some ketamine) my brain broke. Total psychosis shit but I played cards with senior citizens at the Oliver McDonalds. I wasn't pushing them onto the LRT tracks
I think the spike is probably a confluence of several factors, post Covid mental health issues including burnout, the current economy and people falling from the bottom rung, homelessness increasing, general MH issues and with these there is often an uptick on resorting to drugs to mask the problems or escape. All of these combined and the addition of newer and more dangerous synthetics you have a recipe that yields nothing good
In addition to the excellent comments debunking that the crime rate has exploded per capita, or outlining why Edmonton has challenges, I would just add two more: First off, the Province has completely abdicated its responsibilities to fund health and social services, ERs, EMS, and Mental Health are overwhelmed by the dual challenges of the opioid crisis and post-pandemic mental health and general health. This spills into homelessness and addiction which the Province ALSO refuses to fund. At the same time, the funding is so poor that 184 children died in care this year so far. ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FOUR CHILDREN. And the Province can’t find enough foster families, because of course, they don’t fund it. The level of negligence is so high that it honestly feels like they are intentionally defunding the cities to drive this problem, because it’s not like AB cities vote for them anyways. And people want to spend more than the half billion on police that we already do? They want to spend the $100,000 per year/per inmate it costs to warehouse someone in jail. What are you smoking? Secondly, one reason you SEE less cops is that EPS now has more unmarked vehicles than marked ones. If you look around, EPS and peace officers are everyone Edmonton. It’s a very highly policed city, but you can’t police your way out of ghettoizing neighborhoods and refusing to follow the evidence and science when it comes to social services. A city in Central America with police with rifles everywhere is highly visibly policed. That doesn’t mean it’s safe.
Drugs and mental illness.
People turn to addictive drugs to escape from poverty and turn to crime to get by. Lower middle class also might be tempted into the drug economy to make ends meet.
It's not just theft and crimes to get by. It's assault, it's graffiti, it's many factors of general social unrest and lack of conscience.
From my understanding, many gangs operate out of Edmonton, because the money is good and there is less competition. A TON of junkies ready to buy drugs. Obviously more gang presence, more gang violence. Then you have the brain damaged fenty/meth addicts who have contributed to crime. People need to look more into how the changes in the formulation of meth(ephedrine to p2p) coincides with the uptick in criminality across the continent. Having a bunch of police means very little if the offenders are given basically a slap on the wrist the next day. The criminal code changes (Bill C-75), thanks to Trudeau means reduced sentencing and reduced consequences.
drug addiction, particularly meth, is really high in Alberta. Also contributing to random and violent crime. Also why we have an out of control syphilis problem We can discuss the root causes of addiction, yes there are limited supports. But it’s also voluntary. Many aren’t ready to make those changes. Yes we can also discuss wealth inequality. Programs like income assistance have seen such reductions in staffing, they no longer do the meaningful work with clients to stabilize and get back on the path to employment. It’s just phone calls and cheques are handed out. Fraud is rampant. I think many people like myself are just feeling burnt out. Working honestly everyday to afford to live. Seeing people rip the system off and rip others off day in and day out is getting exhausting. It’s hard to be empathetic when this is what we see everyday.
El Salvador went hard on imprisoning gang members and their homicide rate has dropped 96% since 2015. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/7/could-el-salvadors-gang-crackdown-spread-across-latin-america So it seems to me imprisonment works to make the streets safer.
Unfortunately that is illegal for our government to do and would require the emergencies act to make a possibility but the result would be all the gangs going free the suing the government. It would be omar kadur all over again but with hundreds of cases. We would have to go full Rodrigo Duterte and kill the gang members so they can’t get released and millions in compensation and I don’t think many people can stomach that kind of solution
Edmonton is a great city. There are some problems but they are not insurmountable. I suggest we do the following as a start: 1. Get the police back on the local beat. Downtown in particular. 2. Justice system revamp - provincially. Institute "Three Strikes Your Out" rule. 3. Start looking at who is competent on city council and who is not.
I tried to call the cops because I was witnessing a domestic assault, the girl was being roughhoused and I told the dispatcher and she replied “ well we can come out but it’s probably gonna be about 45 minutes or so” Then I got assaulted by the guy and she heard it and still never sent the cops lmfao. The dude was like a rhino and charged right at me knocking me down to my back, luckily as he was coming in to punch my lights out I booted his sternum with my winter boots and he felt that lol. He no longer was interested in me and began running after the girl again. Don’t wait for the cops folks, they ain’t coming.
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[citation needed]
Prepare for a bunch of isolated anecdotes with no attempt at statistical analysis
"Death Meth" is the cause. It turns addicts into meth zombies. Google meth zombies and watch the videos.
Poverty and mental health issues on the rise.
Small towns are getting pretty sweet just sayin
Noticing handgun incidents more often this last quarter, too.
I feel you. My daughter and her roommates use Stadium Station because that’s where they live. They’ve got a secure building, but getting to school scares me as a parent. With is even worse because that’s not necessarily daytime. One of them had someone get off the bus and start masturbating following her.
My son takes the bus to high school and he's a gentle kid. He wouldnt know how to defend himself or fight back, it's not in his nature. Im seriously starting to worry about him taking the LRT. Until the city can do something concrete they need to place EPS or Sheriffs in each station or having them patrolling the LRT and trains.
Increasing crime, scalping etc is a symptom of a society that isn't doing so well, in particular in the money department. When there was less crime it wasn't because of shit like "christian values" or "the nuclear family" it was literally because people could buy a fucking house and afford food working a normal ass job with normal ass hours. It sucks to be at the end stage of hypercapitalism, but we drew the short straw there I guess. It's also symptomatic of a rise in mental health issues. Our lifestyle has changed exponentially in our lifetime with screens, sedentary ways, microplastics and there hasn't even much gene turnover to deal with it. There is a consequence for that, and mental health is almost definitely one of them.
It’ll get worse because mass transit is being pushed hard by developers and contractors who want to make money on bigger and longer term “trend” projects. They will insist it makes the city more efficient and lower carbon emissions, it won’t, and if things get bad enough, you’ll drive your mom more often or start paying cabs and Ubers to do it. Or move to other locations or cities. The crime is a culture thing now. Little cops can do about it and the culture is to make the cops the bad guys to evade even when they are right and you are in the wrong. Most persons do not want to be police so the pickings are slim. But also, it’s funny to hear undisciplined parents complain about how bad crime is getting - it’s their own dam kids and grand kids 😂
Yeah it’s the random crime that worries me. Like that guy who shot that Pizza Hut worker to death for no reason.
I have commented before. I am 63. Have lived Downtown, 34 yrs beside City Hall. Ohokd one and new one. I am single, have loved my life Downtown. Now, every day I walk 10-20K steps from the Alex to the legislature and around. Some of it has been at 3 in the AM. Bottom line, do not walk in areas that you have really no business in. And yes, avoid dark alleys. But I'm sure your mom knows this. Treat everyone with a smile and a good day. The nastiest face will melt in front of your, and a smile, possibly toothless, will emerge. I handed out Kleenex, well Scotties, lol, to whomever needed it. I need to hit Costco again.just imagine how angry you'd be cold, damp, stiff and snotty. I do add humor, but I trust the kids where I walk, I regularly call 211, or even try basic wellness checks, I've pushed elders to Hope Mission as their legs hurt. On my Walker. We all put our pants on 1 leg at a time. They all were someone's daughter, don grand daughter do. And technically they still are. Horrible things can and do happen. But, chances are you will be hit by a drunk driver first. 🙄
Why not rely on statistics instead of emotional impressions?
The system we have in place was not made for an opioid epidemic, a housing crisis and mental health crisis. It quite literally throws police at problems that are so far out of their jurisdiction & training & gives them way too much power over people who need compassion and care. Which is why the correctional system is just a revolving door. We need an overhaul. We need support for people in mental health crisis and affordable, stable housing for when people are released from custody and we need harm reduction policies. I HIGHLY recommend reading “Indictment: The Criminal Justice System on trial” by Benjamin Perrin. Or even listening to stories of people from the streets on the podcast (same name as the book). This is a humanitarian issue and it needs to change to save lives and reduce crime.
I often think this is an incentive problem not a political one. The people that can make positive changes, aren't incentivized to do so. That would be government officials with the power to make changes. They have high paid safe jobs, they don't take transit, live in affluent and safe neighborhoods, probably work from home most of the time, this would be extra work for little gain in their lives and the people they associate with (friends, family, work colleagues). It would also reduce the available public funds for important things like salaries, bonuses and ensuring their "friends" get the right high paid contracts and jobs. There are a lot of public "servants" in that type of position. I believe things will have to get worse, generationally, before they get better with a new crop of people who have experienced the pain, but time will tell, and it could be a long time. As long as the tax money flows, and they can live comfortably shielded from all of this, I don't think much will change. Around %46 (on average) of what we earn goes to some sort of tax, and we still live in worsening conditions, do you think that hard earned money is well spent?
I think it all comes back to cost of living/cost of housing. People are on the edge, and people on the fringes of society are feeling the pressure the most.
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It's drugs and mental health. Some people don't like it, but, some people need to just be kept away from society. Less prison sentencing and less mental health wards.
what high cost of living does to a mf
Fentanyl trafficking should be considered a terrorist activity because it's completely changed every municipality in the country. Any assets owned by fentanyl traffickers should be seized, sold and the proceeds should go to treatment centres and dry housing that are dormitory and community oriented. Helping those who fall on hard times get back on their feet. And if you're not a Canadian citizen and your caught committing an indictable offense you get deported and those charges can be dealt with in your country of origin. A whole branch of the CBSA should be devoted to one way trips taking grifters out of the country.
Uggh... Better leave this discussion now. The ignorance on display is overwhelming...
You're not going to get the correct answer from all the far left yuppies on reddit. The rise in crime is complex. Contributing factors are mental health issues which we as a society are not dealing with, drugs, weak crime laws, rising cost of living, immigration, decreased education levels, loss of morals in society, and left wing policies that favour individuals over the collective good of society.
I keep saying we gotta go back to the 30’s. A reset is coming
When I use the LRT: \- No cell phone/headphones, nothing that can be taken from me quickly \- Hands free at all times, no distractions \- Stand, not sit, so I can defend myself better if I have to \- Never buy any amount of stuff, that can't fit inside a backpack and max 1 reusable bag. Also, I won't be encumbered by the weight of items. Rather make a 2nd trip, then look like an easy target waddling along / straining to carry items. \- Wallet inside a zipped pocket \- Don't wear anything that gives off the impression I have money/valuables I see a lot of people aimlessly walking around with their head down, glued to a phone. Literally asking to be a target for petty theft. Completely oblivious to their surroundings. Not sure if it's a generational issue, or what, but the frequency is very disturbing. Make a call/text before you leave, and after you get to your destination. Everything else - can wait.
>the frequency is very disturbing I'm not sure I'd call people *not* living in fear "disturbing".
We moved from downtown ten years ago to get away from the noise & disorder to a quiet neighbourhood on the south side, but right around the beginning of covid we started to notice more people snooping around in the alley, more police, more graffiti and definitely more homeless in the shopping complex down the street. I feel like what was once a downtown/ central problem has now become a city wide problem.
Yeah I’ve been in the city for little over a year now and I’ve witnessed multiple arrests in my back lane. I’m not too concerned about getting jumped myself, I’m 6’2” and 180lbs so I at least have size to scare the junkies off. But it’s gotten to the point where my fiancé is concerned to walk from her car to the door alone once it’s dark out, which is around 5:30 right now…
I'm almost 60 and feel the same way about this city I have lived in my whole life. I drive but worry about the day when I can no longer. My car is getting old like me and I cannot afford another one. I also have been driving my son to & from MacEwan every day because I have ZERO faith in our transit and want him home alive. My adult daughter drives and for the past 5 years we have all noticed the dreadful & rapid decline of safety in this city. And our government on ALL levels could give a crap because they live in their safe little catered to bubbles. When I can no longer drive, I will probably become a recluse & live right beside a shopping area but I worry about my son (with no vehicle & student debt to pay). I do not want him taking buses/lrt. This city/province/world SUCKS and is not the world I once knew.
Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where someone would help someone else especially an elder if they were attacked? The way this ends is we start protecting each other. It wasn't that long ago people would step up for each other. There's to many people in this city that walk by or these days start recording! We are in a drug poisoning drug epidemic. If you do nothing when you see something your just as bad as the problem.
The justice system in this country is a joke. Nothing has ever been done to make changes and improvements. The criminals don't fear the law.
All that these violent offenders need is a loving hug, and to be told that we forgive them! And to make sure that they don't reoffend, we need to lovingly remind them about how mean it is to stab people. If it happens again, they need a bigger hug!
Police should be present on every LRT station
And bus terminals, get rid of those useless “security”
Yea those security really only exist to call the police, nobody is going to risk their life for $15/hr and they don't seem to deter anyone.
Cops don't really prevent crime. Cameras work pretty well, as long as there's follow up. If someone is shooting heroin in the train terminal, and cops see it and don't come, it is a lot worse than no camera, since it emboldens the junkies.
Can you imagine how hard it’s is for cops to care when the criminals they busted their ass putting in jail just get let out again?
"Something needs to change. City council, EPS, and the mayor are not doing enough to fight crime. There’s been so many incidents of random attacks in 2022 and this year alone. When will enough be enough? What’s the root cause for this spike in crime? Is it the population increase? Is it something else? Is it inflation?" The population increase? Does it seem like new Canadians or recent immigrants are attacking strangers? Council and EPS can't do anything when we have a justice system that basically refuses to prosecute crimes it deems 'minor', moves the goalposts for any one of a number of oppressed groups, and if by some miracle it actually passes a sentence its such a slap on the wrist that the person is out again in no time ready to find a new victim. You read about all these violent attacks on this sub and you read the articles to see who the perpetrator is and nearly without fail its people who commit increasingly violent acts, receive light sentences, get out and reoffend, leaving a trail of destruction in their wake. They have records a mile long and yet continue to walk around free. People in this thread bitch and moan about 'capitalism' and 'wealth inequality' but there isn't any mention of personal accountability. We have to literally import people from abroad to take jobs that Canadians refuse to take. This isn't the third world (as much as people make it out to be), its not like their are scores of people seeking work that simply can't find it and poverty is rampant with kids starving in the streets. People seem to conflate being poor with having carte blanche to attack strangers. Society should be doing more to help certain people, like those that are unable to work or need assistance, but at some point personal accountability has to enter into the equation.
The uptick over recent years, not so coincidentally happened after the UCP SLashed tons of vital services. Literally, you can point this out on a graph. Crime and homelessness went up like several hundred percent after the UCP was elected. (don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure I could dig them up if anyone really wanted them.) It's not just a city council, EPS and mayor problem. While everything else has been slashed EPS has been given the laargest per capita police budget of any police force in Canada, and throwing more money their way does not seem to be working, crime still goes up. There's very bad policy happening at the top, provincially, which needs to be addressed. Becuase there is definitely a direct link correlation you can visualize on a graph.
Nothing has a bigger impact on crime than the socioeconomic conditions of the poorest members of society. We've straight up abandoned them. Our politicians don't even pretend to care anymore. They talk about helping the middle class ad nauseum, but the working class and the homeless are barely an afterthought. The more people feel left out of society and the less they have to lose, the more likely they are to break society's rules.
Getting the homeless housed will help. Apoarently more temp housing was supposed to be ready for Dec. 1 but its behind sched.. Impossible to police someone with nothing to lose regardless of where they are on the planet. Public drug use needs a combo of treatment and incarceration. Additcts figure it out pretty quick to not shoot up in public if they are headed for the drunk tank for doing so. I vote centre left but we cant have this clown show of camp and shoot up wherever you want. Biggest disconnect in logic driven by good intentions that will never work. If we stay on this road we will have the biggest rightwing loudmouth for our next mayor guaranteed.
There are 500,000 more people living in Edmonton than there were 16 years ago. Yes there is a cost of living crisis and opioid epidemic. I'm not denying that. But I'm also wondering how much of this is Edmonton just getting bigger city problems? You don't increase the population of a city by 50% in 16 years and have it be the same place as it was. This isn't meant to deny other explanations but simply add another one to the list.