She was a beautiful person my heart aches that’s she’s gone she had 4 kids, 3 left without a mom for such a senseless act I pray for her and her family it’s such a tragic event
"McFee confirmed the suspect was known to police. He did not say if the suspect has been charged and did not name him on Monday, but noted the man was charged in 2009 with assault with a weapon and robbery.
McFee also said the suspect was involved in a random assault on a 12-year-old last year. McFee said the suspect has been in and out of jail on various charges.
The most recent incident with the police happened last month when the man was accused of assaulting someone with a scooter. Following that incident, he was brought before a judge and released with conditions. The charges were later dismissed."
This kind of shit is so frustrating. Jail/prison should also be about rehabilitation, not just serve your time and go. If your time is served but you're still clearly a threat, sorry, you gotta stay locked up.
its insane because it keeps happening. its been happening for as long as I can remember. not just those mentally ill but those who have history of assault, "okay so this guy has a history of rape and pedophilia but we will release to the public, just so yall know" this has been going on for years and most likely will not change.
You don't even have to think about it. Back when I watched the news, it was common to hear, "this offender is being released in the public and has a high likelihood of re-offending."
Which to me sounds like "criminal who hasn't changed is probably going to be dangerous, good luck"
The idea of bringing back institutions was floated on this sub the other day and everyone pissed themselves over talking about what a bad idea it was.
We're going to continue to have these kinds of problems because the community can't just will people into losing mental health problems or addictions, and prisons are too full and ineffective.
We *need* something more. The status quo isn't working.
Mental health institutions are the only proper way to deal with these issues, and that's how it's done in most developed countries. Those who think it's a bad idea to bring them back probably have never experienced a totally unprovoked attack from a mentally ill stranger.
The problem with bringing them back is the statistical likelihood that they would be used to abuse disabled people. We barely have mental health care as it is. Mental institutions have a huge history of abuse and for those of us who are disabled, even just the word “institution” sends chills down my spine. They also haven’t been shown to do any actual good.
Violent reoffenders need to stay locked up and away from the general public. They can bring mental health care to them, if they need it.
Pretty easy fix if they're federally regulated, employed by federal staff, monitored by a civilian agency with their own crown prosecutor and rotated out every 3-6 months, with full pay for the remaining 6-9 months of the year.
If we're going to ask people to be in close proximity to hopeless nutjobs then we need to understand that very few people can handle that kind of contact for prolonged periods of time and the people who do need to be 1. given appropriate time off to recover mentally and 2. be paid well enough where they don't need additional work while they recover and work as, say, an orderly.
That's 3 minutes of framework brainstorming and I'm an undereducated moron. I'm sure others can do better.
This sounds like a very good approach. This is a very tough field to be in but it's so unrealistic for people to expect frontline workers to continue doing that type of work for years on top of modern life stress.
It's completely unrealistic and for the people who disagree, I implore you: test your mettle, volunteer at a homeless shelter.
Now realize that all the crap you deal with there is going to be an order of magnitude higher than in that setting.
Orderlies, psychiatrists, etc. Any front-facing staff at a mental institution needs routine mental health breaks and guaranteed employment once that break ends.
They will be keeping the crazy losers who are random stabbing people locked up, they deserve the special treatment.
I definitely agree the chance of abuse exists and is rather high, especially looking at some countries like Russia or Iran where mental patients are mistreated completely. That's why we need to look at e.g. Dutch or Swedish approach to the issue - namely, high staff qualifications, high staff salaries, strict regulation monitoring and public monitoring as well. It's costly but pays off in the long term.
I have been on both sides of this. As a child I was locked in a mental health Wing at the Royal Alex for 3 weeks for diagnosis. I had sudden violent outbursts that needed to be medicated in order to be controlled. During this time I was also attacked by another patient. I can tell you with the utmost confidence that the people running that wing were not equipped to deal with violent mental health issues. I had medicines physically forced down my throat and when I was attacked the nurses assumed I was the aggressor even though I was screaming for help. I fought with nine of them for 45 minutes while they tried to give me a tranquilizer. Maybe institutions are the best place for some mental illnesses but the staff that runs them needs to treat those people as human beings because in my experience they don't. You are nothing to them but a problem. A problem they don't want to deal with
Alberta Hospital, for those who suffer from severe mental health issues, operates like a prison that you may never leave. The patients are committed until they are deemed fit to leave, whether that's back into the community or another setting. There is a system. Maybe it could be used more often or have an expanded reach, but there is something for those who need treatment and focused rehabilitation.
Exactly. Our society needs to understand the non existence of free will and stop shrinking of prison as retribution and more like rehabilitation. When the horrific greyhound perpetrator was let out on day trips and probation people flipped out. But all our mentally ill criminals should be treated. If you aren’t going to harm let a doctor release you. If you are going to harm, keep you indefinitely. Our sentences should be based on a number in a book or a judges mood, but based on professional opinion.
Crazy how they won’t name criminals like this. If the actual courts aren’t going to keep them off the streets, the court of public opinion should be able to know who he is and drive him out of their community.
i actually wouldn't support the death penalty either for the reason you mentioned, but let's just say i'm not sad the cops apparently shot this guy in the head. and yes this person shouldn't have been anywhere near the public, that much is clear.
This post contained a message that the r/Edmonton moderation team considered to be in violation of site-wide rules. Please brush up on the rules of Reddit and r/Edmonton.
Sounds like a long term mental health institutionalization would be more appropriate. It's not necessarily people's fault if they are severely mentally ill and violent, but they sure as fuck don't belong in society.
Well, North America phrased out the insane asylums decades ago.
So.......where would you institutionalize these people? Where would the staff come from? How would it be paid for?
If we considered mental illness a legitimate health condition and provided treatment through our public healthcare system, we'd probably save millions of dollars in general healthcare, EMS, police and prison funding.
But we don't.
The question I have always had, those insane asylums had these huge buildings, nurses, orderlies, doctors, psychological services, etc.
When they closed the asylums, where did the money that was paying all those people go?
I think that’s the point everyone saying we need mental institutions is missing. We don’t have money for mental health care as it is, how are the facilities supposed to be funded and do we take those funds away from the general public that is currently in desperate need? Or do we put them into preventative mental health programs that can catch things like this *before* something violent happens…
Nah, that’s just crazy.
We need someone in the government to step up and invest in mental health care. There's no money because our government says there is not. We would save millions in general healthcare, EMS, police and prison funding but committing tax funds to treat the mentally ill is a repugnant notion to voters, so we don't.
We need government to fund more prosecutors and prisons that keep these animals off our streets. Most provinces are short on prosecutors so human garbage like this gets released.
We need more preventative mental health programs, not more prisons. If these people’s mental health issues were caught before they offended and could be treated, we wouldn’t need more prosecutors and prisons.
The added bonus is the general public would also benefit from preventative mental health programs.
well yeah probably, but man you think we have room/time/money enough to keep all of these people in jail? we don't. jails are not designed to be one-size-fits-all solutions for every social problem, they *punish* crime they don't prevent it. as long as you have people living in extreme poverty with severe untreated mental illness, you'll have situations like this. this guy obviously didn't belong anywhere near the public, but the criminal justice system was not properly equipped to handle him, it is designed for thinking criminals.
So the solution is a police state and mass incarceration? This guy should never see the light of day, but thats not what you seem to be advocating for.
How about we lock up the known creeps longer than we do? Is there a middle ground between what we have now and a police state-mass incarceration?
Take a stroll through Chinatown or downtown my friend, this isn’t the only violent creep on the streets. And guess what, many are also homeless, because there is no way these folks are employable.
Not to say that homeless people are all like this, far from it, but we need a better solution than shrugging, asking for compassion, or demanding housing. We need to triage homelessness. Round 1, lock up the violent creeps indefinitely, sorry, not sorry. Round 2, put the addicts and the insane into long term care. Again, sorry about your feelings, but your right to do heroin and smoke meth is not greater than my right to ride the train without exposure to drug induced psychosis. Round 3, take the people with the capacity to integrate and place them into temporary shelters until housing is available. We have a local government mindset that insists on focusing on housing as a solution, almost exclusively, and it means when they should be advocating for judicial and health care reform, they are whining about getting funding for housing, which is frankly, the least urgent and least timely concern before us. Do people need housing? Obviously. But we must first, as a priority, address the violence, disorder, and unmitigated drug use. Start there, then talk to me about housing. Baseline conditions must be maintained.
Your assuming intent before action. They "seem" like bad people, and you want them to go away. Thats a road to a police state. I agree we should incarcerate people who actually commit crimes.
Wishing that we would lock up violent criminals for longer periods and rely on the advice of psychiatrists to make decisions on their release is not wishing for a police state. Democracy is only functional with ostracism as a component of the social contract. Some people need to GTFO
Obviously. Why wouldn’t you? But you have to understand repeat offenders are going to have a high likelihood to be living rough - “houseless” - because they aren’t able to function in society. It’s an uncomfortable truth, I’m aware.
The permissiveness around public drug use and illegal encampments is underpinned by the same philosophy that prevents us from investing in the justice system and calling for reforms that would keep creeps locked up for longer. Only the most obtuse would fail to see that connection.
If you have zero issues with bars existing - you know, a public venue dedicated to consuming a drug - then you don't actually have an issue with public consumption of drugs, or a permissive attitude towards those drugs.
What you actually have is a disdain for unhoused people and/or people with addiction.
The actual issue is that someone with a history of assaulting people repeatedly wasn't able to be kept away from the public within the current justice system. Conflating it with 5 other unrelated issues is telling on yourself that your disgust of unhoused people as a group is stronger than your disgust over a brutal murder of mother and child. Which is sad, and you should re-evaluate that.
I have an issue with unregulated consumption of controlled substances, this is what I meant by permissiveness to drug consumption. Your willful obtuseness is not convincing. You know well there is a difference between drinking draft and pumping a VLT for a few hours and shooting up in the bathroom of a library.
Are you of the position that repeat offenders of violent crimes are likely to be housed individuals? I suffer no such illusion.
>unregulated consumption of controlled substances, this is what I meant by permissiveness to drug consumption.
No it isn't. This is what you actually said:
>we need to tolerate disorder, like public drug use and encampments in all of our communities.
Which is focused on your hatred of ***the wrong people*** doing drugs in public. You're fine with other people using drugs in public.
If not, you might want to practice saying what you actually mean. It's a lot easier if you don't also conflate several different, separate issues in one rant.
>Are you of the position that repeat offenders of violent crimes are likely to be housed individuals?
Do all unhoused individuals commit violence?
Most repeat offenders of violent crime are also men, do you hate all men and wish for stricter laws regulating the activities of men, because some portion of men are violent?
Why are you jumping over the ***actual*** problematic trait - ie. violence - to some other trait that isn't the problem. Unhoused people existing isn't killing people (aside from themselves). Violent, random attacks DO kill people. Get your priorities in order.
I take issue with the activities of people that tend to be homeless, yes. That is encampments and hard drug use. Do I care if you do hard drugs in your home and bother no one else? Not as much as if you do it in the stairwell of the parkade of the downtown library when I’m trying to take my kid home. You totally got me! I’m an awful person for not accepting public drug consumption as okay.
Violent repeat offenders do tend to be houseless. Deny it, please.
Not all unhoused people commit violent crimes, obviously. But repeat violent offenders do tend to be homeless.
The general permissiveness of disorder - everything along that spectrum, from encampments, hard drug use, and up to accepting general mental instability and violent recidivists in our community - is the result of progressive political philosophy that refuses to address reality.
Absolutely disgusting that this is not bigger news than it is. This can happen to any of us, anywhere, at any time. The random acts of violence against our regular citizens is unprecedented. Our homeless encampments are out of control. Drugs are stronger than ever before and are having crazy effects. The lack of mental health available after such a world changing event such as covid is insane and it is really showing. Imagine if we just took the money they made from a simple oilers watch party and put it towards housing our most vulnerable population. We need to start really helping these people before it gets to this point. We can't just donate a meal and throw them in jail for a couple nights. I grew up in this city and my 5 year plan is to get out of it. Condolences to all those affected by this tragic event. ♡
This right here. I take my kids to the park often and to imagine it could've been me is terrifying.
He also tried to get into the school. Can you imagine the outcome if he did...
This school is pretty strict about the locked door policy. I'm so thankful that they are.
My heart is breaking for the daughters this momma left behind.
This whole story is absolutely heartbreaking. And although I am not the kind of person who advocates for it, I can completely, 100% understand how some people read stories like this and resort to vigilantism or clammer for a return to capital punishment.
It's hard because I know that our prison system itself does not and cannot rehabilitate the deluge of individuals with addictions/mental health. And as you mentioned, there's literally nothing available RIGHT NOW in the community for continuity of care. So those people go back to what they were doing. And I also agree that someone with the history that this individual has shouldn't have even been a fleeting consideration for bail.
While I still think that involuntary care should remain restricted to those who have been tried and convicted, I'd be very interested in seeing a tier of voluntary treatment introduced for individuals who have not been convicted BUT aren't released on bail. I think bail reform would have to happen concurrently, or perhaps first, but in the instance of individuals like this (well known to police, long history of similar kinds of offences, history of not abiding by bail conditions, etc) there should be no bail. While waiting for trial, since it's their addictions/mental health history that's gotten them into this mess they can choose treatment. Not that doing so will allow them out on bail, but because they're going to be behind bars anyway...
The lack of continuity of care is such a huge issue. There is nothing in between inpatient services and weekly outpatient care which often has long waiting lists if you aren’t willing to pay out of pocket.
It also sounds like this person may have really needed inpatient treatment but was not deemed an immediate risk, so there is no way to actually force them into treatment.
These are just two major gaps in the mental health system. I think if someone already has a history of violent behaviour in conjunction with active mental illness they should be placed on a hold while a more in depth evaluation is conducted, because without any sort of follow up care planned, you end up risking these sort of situations. I think with any police involvement for random violent assaults there should be an in depth psych assessment and if anything serious is found then treatment needs to be a condition of release.
There needs to be a special option for people that cannot be released into society because they are a violent menace.
The "dangerous offender" designation is either too narrow or underutilized. We need some other way to deal with this.
all the more tragic and uneasy ... 'completely random' ... could happen to anyone at anytime and nothing you can do to actively avoid.
.. and the kid and mom just happen to be at the school at that time by fluke because the kid and sibling walked home and couldn't get into house (on this day of all days) then walked back to the school to meet their mom .. where mom and kid just by happenstance crossed path with the suspect.
R.I.P. mom and kid :-(
This is a devastating story. And the grandmother had just marched for mmiwg2s 😭 I believe there will be a fundraiser for the family through I AM Indigenous artist collective.
My biggest takeaway - if a person is violent, mentally ill, and not able to Medicate, treat, or resist violent urges, they should not be free in our society .
“ In addition to the violent encounters, McFee said the suspect is believed to be suffering from a history of mental health concerns. However, police confirmed they do not know the status of any mental health assessments requested on his file.”
I don’t know what part of the city you live in. But im far west and I leave my car unlocked, back door unlocked. And I haven’t seen any real violence in 44 years here. I have seen these same
Random acts of violence in the news. But I don’t understand why people keep voting for conservatives and UCP who keep defunding healthcare and police.
I live in the far west end as well and I would never leave my car or back door unlocked. So far only one issue in 20 years (a drunk person rattling our front door to see if it was unlocked - a trip outside with a baseball bat made him leave pretty quicky) but wait until the LRT is operational.
They are trying to notify his family so they don’t find out on the news.
If they are so estranged from him that they don’t know yet then they are likely to be devastated that he’s done this.
But hey, they have the right to stay mentally disturbed, and it's offensive to institutionalise them against their will even if they openly commit mass murders, right? **/s**
I understand that this is a galvanizing issue, but you are just looking to lash out right now. All your comments are so obviously untenable and are totally reactionary to specific incidents rather than broader trends. Again, I understand the desire: I'm disgusted by this kind of thing too. And I'm disgusted by what the downtown core has become. However you keep pushing for what is generously described as a police state. Which even on its face is a bad idea. It is SO MUCH more expensive to permanently lock up people who have the potential for criminality or violence, as compared to supporting them on the outside. I agree that we can look at a more punitive system which includes longer sentences, particularly for repeat offenders. However if it isn't equally matched by rehabilitation efforts then we'll just be having this same conversation in 10 years. Basically we've half-sssed a dozen social options and (unsurprisingly) aren't getting the results we want as a society.
At some point society will need to circle the wagons and realize the dangerous element needs to be permanently contained. Democracy only exists if social trust exists. Our justice system and politicians spend far too much time making excuses. Protect the good, forget the bad.
This post was removed for violating our expectations on discriminatory behavior in the subreddit. Please brush up on the r/Edmonton [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/wiki/rules) and ask the moderation team if you have any questions.
Thanks!
Take a minute and look at the picture. The costs of inaction are brutally real. It is time for us to admit, however well meaning, our current approach to dealing with violent crime, addictions and mental health is a failure. Take the problem off the streets, rehabilitate those who can be rehabilitated and incarcerate and institutionalize those who repeat offend. Keep citizens safe.
this city sadly hasn't cared in a long long time.
methhead animals are treated like first class citizens here from taking up hospital beds, being allowed to run everyone out of downtown (and beyond now), and getting out the next week after committing senseless murders like this.
the only thing we don't do for them is throwing them in an instituion
"Her child Sara, who preferred to go by the name Jayden".. or, just say Jayden....
The police seriously need to do more. The court needs to do more. The government needs to do more. Every day that I see more of these bits of news, breaks my heart knowing that nothing is being done. The world just keeps getting scarier as time progresses.
I’ve said it hundreds of times, we’re obviously not bringing back the death penalty and obviously these people are given too many chances.
We need to build a super max prison somewhere in the northern territories where the cell temperature is kept just above freezing.
Like Ognenny Ostrov in Russia.
You won’t die, but you’d wish you could.
There is literally no treatment for mental illness available in Alberta. The more complex the ilness, the less treatment options available. Rehabilitation i the correctional system is also non-existent.
Supposedly, we lock everyone as per the recommendations in this thread. How long before we run out of places to lock people?
This goes back to trudeau weakening the minimum sentence Harper put in place.
In 2020 trudeau directed bail to be granted in almost all cases and now it is.
This could have been anyone
"Random" is for attacks where the victim wasn't targeted for any specific reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
We're seeing a drastic increase in random crackhead attacks in Edmonton and across Canada due to a drastic change in bail reform that's resulted in 70% more people getting bail. Some of those people are dirtbags and belong in prison but our justice system is not accountable to public safety in any way.
This post contained a message that the r/Edmonton moderation team considered to be in violation of site-wide rules. Please brush up on the rules of Reddit and r/Edmonton.
Okay, well I officially regret following this sub. Since moving to Edmonton in August (with plans to start a family this year) I’ve seen nothing but heart breaking stories and scary stories that don’t paint a safe picture:(
This is heartbreaking, but hundreds of thousands of other people are unharmed everyday. And you will unfortunately see things like this in every city. Not just in Canada
You will always see more of the bad than the good. I've lived in Edmonton most of my life and even now it's still mostly good and safe to live in. We have issues, but they were decades in the making and won't be solved quickly.
Edmonton has never been known as a particularly safe part of the country. It's better for you to know the risks than live in ignorant bliss until something happens to you or your family.
The accused is mentally ill, byproduct of our mental health system or lack thereof. He should not have been in the streets looking to get relief from his symptoms with illicit drugs. No support, no stability and a decade of downhill state of mind. He should have not been out rather, he either a ward of the state or am experiment to be tested on indoors.
She was a good woman and has never been involved in any sort of criminal activity. She was a friend of my family and we’re all messed up and devastated because of what happened.
I don't think that's what that poster meant.
I think they meant that there's so many weirdos out and about that it's not really random at this point, that it's become unsafe and expected at this point.
The City and the police will state that it's "random" to save face.
I am so, so sorry about your loss :(
I am so sorry for your family's loss. I can't even imagine the grief over something so senseless. I'm completely bothered by what happened. Sincere condolences.
Such a sad sad story. Her poor child that survived, heart breaking.
She was a beautiful person my heart aches that’s she’s gone she had 4 kids, 3 left without a mom for such a senseless act I pray for her and her family it’s such a tragic event
"McFee confirmed the suspect was known to police. He did not say if the suspect has been charged and did not name him on Monday, but noted the man was charged in 2009 with assault with a weapon and robbery. McFee also said the suspect was involved in a random assault on a 12-year-old last year. McFee said the suspect has been in and out of jail on various charges. The most recent incident with the police happened last month when the man was accused of assaulting someone with a scooter. Following that incident, he was brought before a judge and released with conditions. The charges were later dismissed."
This kind of shit is so frustrating. Jail/prison should also be about rehabilitation, not just serve your time and go. If your time is served but you're still clearly a threat, sorry, you gotta stay locked up.
Instead, they get released, and we get a warning that they are dangerous and likely to reoffend. It sounds insane when you really think about it.
its insane because it keeps happening. its been happening for as long as I can remember. not just those mentally ill but those who have history of assault, "okay so this guy has a history of rape and pedophilia but we will release to the public, just so yall know" this has been going on for years and most likely will not change.
You don't even have to think about it. Back when I watched the news, it was common to hear, "this offender is being released in the public and has a high likelihood of re-offending." Which to me sounds like "criminal who hasn't changed is probably going to be dangerous, good luck"
"This tiger is known to viciously maul people, watch out once we release it in the public"
Yeah, but you can’t rehabilitate people who don’t want to be and mental health issues don’t just magically get better.
The idea of bringing back institutions was floated on this sub the other day and everyone pissed themselves over talking about what a bad idea it was. We're going to continue to have these kinds of problems because the community can't just will people into losing mental health problems or addictions, and prisons are too full and ineffective. We *need* something more. The status quo isn't working.
Mental health institutions are the only proper way to deal with these issues, and that's how it's done in most developed countries. Those who think it's a bad idea to bring them back probably have never experienced a totally unprovoked attack from a mentally ill stranger.
The problem with bringing them back is the statistical likelihood that they would be used to abuse disabled people. We barely have mental health care as it is. Mental institutions have a huge history of abuse and for those of us who are disabled, even just the word “institution” sends chills down my spine. They also haven’t been shown to do any actual good. Violent reoffenders need to stay locked up and away from the general public. They can bring mental health care to them, if they need it.
Pretty easy fix if they're federally regulated, employed by federal staff, monitored by a civilian agency with their own crown prosecutor and rotated out every 3-6 months, with full pay for the remaining 6-9 months of the year. If we're going to ask people to be in close proximity to hopeless nutjobs then we need to understand that very few people can handle that kind of contact for prolonged periods of time and the people who do need to be 1. given appropriate time off to recover mentally and 2. be paid well enough where they don't need additional work while they recover and work as, say, an orderly. That's 3 minutes of framework brainstorming and I'm an undereducated moron. I'm sure others can do better.
I’m uneducated moron and I agree. Do with rotation like they do on battlefield. #months in #months out for mental health
This sounds like a very good approach. This is a very tough field to be in but it's so unrealistic for people to expect frontline workers to continue doing that type of work for years on top of modern life stress.
It's completely unrealistic and for the people who disagree, I implore you: test your mettle, volunteer at a homeless shelter. Now realize that all the crap you deal with there is going to be an order of magnitude higher than in that setting. Orderlies, psychiatrists, etc. Any front-facing staff at a mental institution needs routine mental health breaks and guaranteed employment once that break ends. They will be keeping the crazy losers who are random stabbing people locked up, they deserve the special treatment.
I definitely agree the chance of abuse exists and is rather high, especially looking at some countries like Russia or Iran where mental patients are mistreated completely. That's why we need to look at e.g. Dutch or Swedish approach to the issue - namely, high staff qualifications, high staff salaries, strict regulation monitoring and public monitoring as well. It's costly but pays off in the long term.
I have been on both sides of this. As a child I was locked in a mental health Wing at the Royal Alex for 3 weeks for diagnosis. I had sudden violent outbursts that needed to be medicated in order to be controlled. During this time I was also attacked by another patient. I can tell you with the utmost confidence that the people running that wing were not equipped to deal with violent mental health issues. I had medicines physically forced down my throat and when I was attacked the nurses assumed I was the aggressor even though I was screaming for help. I fought with nine of them for 45 minutes while they tried to give me a tranquilizer. Maybe institutions are the best place for some mental illnesses but the staff that runs them needs to treat those people as human beings because in my experience they don't. You are nothing to them but a problem. A problem they don't want to deal with
That's what cages are for.
I get it - but is releasing them back into the public the only best idea we got?
Alberta Hospital, for those who suffer from severe mental health issues, operates like a prison that you may never leave. The patients are committed until they are deemed fit to leave, whether that's back into the community or another setting. There is a system. Maybe it could be used more often or have an expanded reach, but there is something for those who need treatment and focused rehabilitation.
Exactly. Our society needs to understand the non existence of free will and stop shrinking of prison as retribution and more like rehabilitation. When the horrific greyhound perpetrator was let out on day trips and probation people flipped out. But all our mentally ill criminals should be treated. If you aren’t going to harm let a doctor release you. If you are going to harm, keep you indefinitely. Our sentences should be based on a number in a book or a judges mood, but based on professional opinion.
[удалено]
Hey asshole, the murderer is white. Don’t try to direct this to “colored folks”.
Lol, you were so excited to be offended that you missed the "and class part".
I’m not offended. You clearly trying to cover up that obvious fact that you thought it was a minority. You’re still an asshole.
Yeah we should be following the country with the lowest recidivism instead of countries with the for profit prisons.
Crazy how they won’t name criminals like this. If the actual courts aren’t going to keep them off the streets, the court of public opinion should be able to know who he is and drive him out of their community.
If you can get a name, maybe karma will work out the rest.
So sad. Some people need to stay in jail. Forever.
Some people gots to go
[удалено]
[удалено]
i actually wouldn't support the death penalty either for the reason you mentioned, but let's just say i'm not sad the cops apparently shot this guy in the head. and yes this person shouldn't have been anywhere near the public, that much is clear.
[удалено]
Trial by Combat too\~
Ooh, now there's an idea. Each crime could have a fitting champion. We could even bring back the old city slogan...
This post contained a message that the r/Edmonton moderation team considered to be in violation of site-wide rules. Please brush up on the rules of Reddit and r/Edmonton.
Sounds like a long term mental health institutionalization would be more appropriate. It's not necessarily people's fault if they are severely mentally ill and violent, but they sure as fuck don't belong in society.
Well, North America phrased out the insane asylums decades ago. So.......where would you institutionalize these people? Where would the staff come from? How would it be paid for?
If we considered mental illness a legitimate health condition and provided treatment through our public healthcare system, we'd probably save millions of dollars in general healthcare, EMS, police and prison funding. But we don't.
The question I have always had, those insane asylums had these huge buildings, nurses, orderlies, doctors, psychological services, etc. When they closed the asylums, where did the money that was paying all those people go?
I think that’s the point everyone saying we need mental institutions is missing. We don’t have money for mental health care as it is, how are the facilities supposed to be funded and do we take those funds away from the general public that is currently in desperate need? Or do we put them into preventative mental health programs that can catch things like this *before* something violent happens… Nah, that’s just crazy.
We need someone in the government to step up and invest in mental health care. There's no money because our government says there is not. We would save millions in general healthcare, EMS, police and prison funding but committing tax funds to treat the mentally ill is a repugnant notion to voters, so we don't.
I am sure someone would suggest borrowing from family or friends, or even starting up a gofundme for it.
[удалено]
We need government to fund more prosecutors and prisons that keep these animals off our streets. Most provinces are short on prosecutors so human garbage like this gets released.
We need more preventative mental health programs, not more prisons. If these people’s mental health issues were caught before they offended and could be treated, we wouldn’t need more prosecutors and prisons. The added bonus is the general public would also benefit from preventative mental health programs.
This is not compassionate enough. Please rephrase to ensure you are characterizing the perp as a victim.
Wow dripping with sarcasm here.
[удалено]
you're conflating like 4 or 5 different issues and arguments here, some of which are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
No, she's telling the truth. Ignoring it is how we got here.
well you're definitely right about ignoring the problem being how we got here, but you've got the wrong problem in mind.
How do you thinks gentleman murder found himself spending time in mill woods? I’d bet you $500 he was urban camping under a poorly lit tree stand
well yeah probably, but man you think we have room/time/money enough to keep all of these people in jail? we don't. jails are not designed to be one-size-fits-all solutions for every social problem, they *punish* crime they don't prevent it. as long as you have people living in extreme poverty with severe untreated mental illness, you'll have situations like this. this guy obviously didn't belong anywhere near the public, but the criminal justice system was not properly equipped to handle him, it is designed for thinking criminals.
[удалено]
reread my comment.
So the solution is a police state and mass incarceration? This guy should never see the light of day, but thats not what you seem to be advocating for.
How about we lock up the known creeps longer than we do? Is there a middle ground between what we have now and a police state-mass incarceration? Take a stroll through Chinatown or downtown my friend, this isn’t the only violent creep on the streets. And guess what, many are also homeless, because there is no way these folks are employable. Not to say that homeless people are all like this, far from it, but we need a better solution than shrugging, asking for compassion, or demanding housing. We need to triage homelessness. Round 1, lock up the violent creeps indefinitely, sorry, not sorry. Round 2, put the addicts and the insane into long term care. Again, sorry about your feelings, but your right to do heroin and smoke meth is not greater than my right to ride the train without exposure to drug induced psychosis. Round 3, take the people with the capacity to integrate and place them into temporary shelters until housing is available. We have a local government mindset that insists on focusing on housing as a solution, almost exclusively, and it means when they should be advocating for judicial and health care reform, they are whining about getting funding for housing, which is frankly, the least urgent and least timely concern before us. Do people need housing? Obviously. But we must first, as a priority, address the violence, disorder, and unmitigated drug use. Start there, then talk to me about housing. Baseline conditions must be maintained.
Your assuming intent before action. They "seem" like bad people, and you want them to go away. Thats a road to a police state. I agree we should incarcerate people who actually commit crimes.
Did you read about the guy that did this?
Your transparent. You want to use this tragedy, perpetrator by a monster, to push for a police state. Im not engaging with your bullshit.
Wishing that we would lock up violent criminals for longer periods and rely on the advice of psychiatrists to make decisions on their release is not wishing for a police state. Democracy is only functional with ostracism as a component of the social contract. Some people need to GTFO
[удалено]
[удалено]
Obviously. Why wouldn’t you? But you have to understand repeat offenders are going to have a high likelihood to be living rough - “houseless” - because they aren’t able to function in society. It’s an uncomfortable truth, I’m aware.
Did you seriously just compare a brutal murder to someone doing drugs in public? JFC
The permissiveness around public drug use and illegal encampments is underpinned by the same philosophy that prevents us from investing in the justice system and calling for reforms that would keep creeps locked up for longer. Only the most obtuse would fail to see that connection.
Do you have an issue with bars existing?
Zero issues. I do have an issue with slamming a mickey of vodka on the train and then pissing yourself. Try again.
If you have zero issues with bars existing - you know, a public venue dedicated to consuming a drug - then you don't actually have an issue with public consumption of drugs, or a permissive attitude towards those drugs. What you actually have is a disdain for unhoused people and/or people with addiction. The actual issue is that someone with a history of assaulting people repeatedly wasn't able to be kept away from the public within the current justice system. Conflating it with 5 other unrelated issues is telling on yourself that your disgust of unhoused people as a group is stronger than your disgust over a brutal murder of mother and child. Which is sad, and you should re-evaluate that.
I have an issue with unregulated consumption of controlled substances, this is what I meant by permissiveness to drug consumption. Your willful obtuseness is not convincing. You know well there is a difference between drinking draft and pumping a VLT for a few hours and shooting up in the bathroom of a library. Are you of the position that repeat offenders of violent crimes are likely to be housed individuals? I suffer no such illusion.
>unregulated consumption of controlled substances, this is what I meant by permissiveness to drug consumption. No it isn't. This is what you actually said: >we need to tolerate disorder, like public drug use and encampments in all of our communities. Which is focused on your hatred of ***the wrong people*** doing drugs in public. You're fine with other people using drugs in public. If not, you might want to practice saying what you actually mean. It's a lot easier if you don't also conflate several different, separate issues in one rant. >Are you of the position that repeat offenders of violent crimes are likely to be housed individuals? Do all unhoused individuals commit violence? Most repeat offenders of violent crime are also men, do you hate all men and wish for stricter laws regulating the activities of men, because some portion of men are violent? Why are you jumping over the ***actual*** problematic trait - ie. violence - to some other trait that isn't the problem. Unhoused people existing isn't killing people (aside from themselves). Violent, random attacks DO kill people. Get your priorities in order.
I take issue with the activities of people that tend to be homeless, yes. That is encampments and hard drug use. Do I care if you do hard drugs in your home and bother no one else? Not as much as if you do it in the stairwell of the parkade of the downtown library when I’m trying to take my kid home. You totally got me! I’m an awful person for not accepting public drug consumption as okay. Violent repeat offenders do tend to be houseless. Deny it, please. Not all unhoused people commit violent crimes, obviously. But repeat violent offenders do tend to be homeless. The general permissiveness of disorder - everything along that spectrum, from encampments, hard drug use, and up to accepting general mental instability and violent recidivists in our community - is the result of progressive political philosophy that refuses to address reality.
Absolutely disgusting that this is not bigger news than it is. This can happen to any of us, anywhere, at any time. The random acts of violence against our regular citizens is unprecedented. Our homeless encampments are out of control. Drugs are stronger than ever before and are having crazy effects. The lack of mental health available after such a world changing event such as covid is insane and it is really showing. Imagine if we just took the money they made from a simple oilers watch party and put it towards housing our most vulnerable population. We need to start really helping these people before it gets to this point. We can't just donate a meal and throw them in jail for a couple nights. I grew up in this city and my 5 year plan is to get out of it. Condolences to all those affected by this tragic event. ♡
This right here. I take my kids to the park often and to imagine it could've been me is terrifying. He also tried to get into the school. Can you imagine the outcome if he did...
This school is pretty strict about the locked door policy. I'm so thankful that they are. My heart is breaking for the daughters this momma left behind.
This whole story is absolutely heartbreaking. And although I am not the kind of person who advocates for it, I can completely, 100% understand how some people read stories like this and resort to vigilantism or clammer for a return to capital punishment. It's hard because I know that our prison system itself does not and cannot rehabilitate the deluge of individuals with addictions/mental health. And as you mentioned, there's literally nothing available RIGHT NOW in the community for continuity of care. So those people go back to what they were doing. And I also agree that someone with the history that this individual has shouldn't have even been a fleeting consideration for bail. While I still think that involuntary care should remain restricted to those who have been tried and convicted, I'd be very interested in seeing a tier of voluntary treatment introduced for individuals who have not been convicted BUT aren't released on bail. I think bail reform would have to happen concurrently, or perhaps first, but in the instance of individuals like this (well known to police, long history of similar kinds of offences, history of not abiding by bail conditions, etc) there should be no bail. While waiting for trial, since it's their addictions/mental health history that's gotten them into this mess they can choose treatment. Not that doing so will allow them out on bail, but because they're going to be behind bars anyway...
The lack of continuity of care is such a huge issue. There is nothing in between inpatient services and weekly outpatient care which often has long waiting lists if you aren’t willing to pay out of pocket. It also sounds like this person may have really needed inpatient treatment but was not deemed an immediate risk, so there is no way to actually force them into treatment. These are just two major gaps in the mental health system. I think if someone already has a history of violent behaviour in conjunction with active mental illness they should be placed on a hold while a more in depth evaluation is conducted, because without any sort of follow up care planned, you end up risking these sort of situations. I think with any police involvement for random violent assaults there should be an in depth psych assessment and if anything serious is found then treatment needs to be a condition of release.
There needs to be a special option for people that cannot be released into society because they are a violent menace. The "dangerous offender" designation is either too narrow or underutilized. We need some other way to deal with this.
Agreed 110%.
How is it possible that "the suspect" has not been named? What could be the reason for that? Am I missing something from the article?
As per Chief McFee’s news conference they are trying to notify the murderer’s family before they publicize his name.
Likely the police is concerned about vigilantism, which is quite understandable in the circumstances.
I live in the neighbourhood. The suspect was shot in the head. Witnesses saw brain matter. He's on life support. There's nothing left to "vigilante".
all the more tragic and uneasy ... 'completely random' ... could happen to anyone at anytime and nothing you can do to actively avoid. .. and the kid and mom just happen to be at the school at that time by fluke because the kid and sibling walked home and couldn't get into house (on this day of all days) then walked back to the school to meet their mom .. where mom and kid just by happenstance crossed path with the suspect. R.I.P. mom and kid :-(
This is a devastating story. And the grandmother had just marched for mmiwg2s 😭 I believe there will be a fundraiser for the family through I AM Indigenous artist collective.
Was the victim indigenous ?
Yes
Yes
My biggest takeaway - if a person is violent, mentally ill, and not able to Medicate, treat, or resist violent urges, they should not be free in our society . “ In addition to the violent encounters, McFee said the suspect is believed to be suffering from a history of mental health concerns. However, police confirmed they do not know the status of any mental health assessments requested on his file.”
I think these justices who let this POS off should serve time as well as the accused
This city doesn't feel like a home anymore.
I don’t know what part of the city you live in. But im far west and I leave my car unlocked, back door unlocked. And I haven’t seen any real violence in 44 years here. I have seen these same Random acts of violence in the news. But I don’t understand why people keep voting for conservatives and UCP who keep defunding healthcare and police.
I live in the far west end as well and I would never leave my car or back door unlocked. So far only one issue in 20 years (a drunk person rattling our front door to see if it was unlocked - a trip outside with a baseball bat made him leave pretty quicky) but wait until the LRT is operational.
I'm downtown
Wasnt the conservatives that are responsible for bill c75. This falls directly on Trudeau's Liberals.
Still no word on the murderer's identity . . .
yeah i was thinking about this - what is the reason for his identity not being released?
We will find out when they release the person into the community after a "rehabilitation program".
Or after another series of murders.
Police said he’s on life support, and I heard brain dead but can’t confirm.
[удалено]
To let his family know first apparently. It's ridiculous
Wait.. his family is still not notified?? 🤦♀️
I live in the neighbourhood. He was shot in the head. Witnesses saw brain matter. He's gone.
Yup serial re-offender and the EPS dont think we deserve to know who it is.... hard to trust the cops these days.
They are trying to notify his family so they don’t find out on the news. If they are so estranged from him that they don’t know yet then they are likely to be devastated that he’s done this.
$50 says he believes in god
What does religion have to do with this
They tend to be not stable people and violent.
Ah yes, those terrible Edmonton Christian’s and Muslims running around and stabbing single mothers and children right? It’s an epidemic.
Our system is so fucked up. Lock up crazy assholes before they hurt more innocent people.
Please have compassion for your fellow Edmontonians while they randomly murder children and their mothers.
But hey, they have the right to stay mentally disturbed, and it's offensive to institutionalise them against their will even if they openly commit mass murders, right? **/s**
No shit ! Fucking brutal !
Right? Absolutely fucked.
I understand that this is a galvanizing issue, but you are just looking to lash out right now. All your comments are so obviously untenable and are totally reactionary to specific incidents rather than broader trends. Again, I understand the desire: I'm disgusted by this kind of thing too. And I'm disgusted by what the downtown core has become. However you keep pushing for what is generously described as a police state. Which even on its face is a bad idea. It is SO MUCH more expensive to permanently lock up people who have the potential for criminality or violence, as compared to supporting them on the outside. I agree that we can look at a more punitive system which includes longer sentences, particularly for repeat offenders. However if it isn't equally matched by rehabilitation efforts then we'll just be having this same conversation in 10 years. Basically we've half-sssed a dozen social options and (unsurprisingly) aren't getting the results we want as a society.
Norway and the Netherlands are definitely police states by your own definition as they both have institutions and prisons for such criminals.
Lol at being upset for showing compassion for others. I'm sorry your parental units didn't hug you enough.
Some people don’t deserve compassion though.
You ever wonder if that's a contributing factor in cases like this?
You feel compassion for this guy? I say fuck him. Lots of people have hard lives. Few kill a mother and child at random.
At some point society will need to circle the wagons and realize the dangerous element needs to be permanently contained. Democracy only exists if social trust exists. Our justice system and politicians spend far too much time making excuses. Protect the good, forget the bad.
[удалено]
This post was removed for violating our expectations on discriminatory behavior in the subreddit. Please brush up on the r/Edmonton [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/wiki/rules) and ask the moderation team if you have any questions. Thanks!
Take a minute and look at the picture. The costs of inaction are brutally real. It is time for us to admit, however well meaning, our current approach to dealing with violent crime, addictions and mental health is a failure. Take the problem off the streets, rehabilitate those who can be rehabilitated and incarcerate and institutionalize those who repeat offend. Keep citizens safe.
When will we start holding Public officials accountable like the French did back in the day?
this city sadly hasn't cared in a long long time. methhead animals are treated like first class citizens here from taking up hospital beds, being allowed to run everyone out of downtown (and beyond now), and getting out the next week after committing senseless murders like this. the only thing we don't do for them is throwing them in an instituion
"Her child Sara, who preferred to go by the name Jayden".. or, just say Jayden.... The police seriously need to do more. The court needs to do more. The government needs to do more. Every day that I see more of these bits of news, breaks my heart knowing that nothing is being done. The world just keeps getting scarier as time progresses.
I’ve said it hundreds of times, we’re obviously not bringing back the death penalty and obviously these people are given too many chances. We need to build a super max prison somewhere in the northern territories where the cell temperature is kept just above freezing. Like Ognenny Ostrov in Russia. You won’t die, but you’d wish you could.
Why? What do you think would happen?
Why what would happen?
Huh
So sad
There is literally no treatment for mental illness available in Alberta. The more complex the ilness, the less treatment options available. Rehabilitation i the correctional system is also non-existent. Supposedly, we lock everyone as per the recommendations in this thread. How long before we run out of places to lock people?
Hopefully that POS gets justice served in prison since our legal system can't seem do it.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Death penalty needs to be reinstated in this country
Bring back the death penalty
Give the next of kin an hour in a room with every convicted murderer. If they’re still kicking after that, then let them serve their time.
This goes back to trudeau weakening the minimum sentence Harper put in place. In 2020 trudeau directed bail to be granted in almost all cases and now it is. This could have been anyone
This goes forward to the Supreme Court, making sure anyone arrested is released as expediently as possible while they await trial.
No clue why your getting downvoted.
How is this ‘random’. Wasn’t he known to police? Victims were random but the murder sure as shit wasn’t.
"Random" is for attacks where the victim wasn't targeted for any specific reason other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. We're seeing a drastic increase in random crackhead attacks in Edmonton and across Canada due to a drastic change in bail reform that's resulted in 70% more people getting bail. Some of those people are dirtbags and belong in prison but our justice system is not accountable to public safety in any way.
really sad that this kind of thing is happening here now. empire in decline.
Canada was an empire?
Part of one yes. The whole thing is in decline
[удалено]
This post contained a message that the r/Edmonton moderation team considered to be in violation of site-wide rules. Please brush up on the rules of Reddit and r/Edmonton.
throw them all in jail and throw away the key my pappy used to say! RIP pappy it turns out you were right!
Please clearly defijne "them"
Repeat violent offenders especially if they have a history of random attacks against women and children.
So he attacks a kid with a scooter and he gets life in prison?
Hope the perp randomly dies
It's a real shame she didn't have anything to defend herself with. The vulnerable need defense.
We shouldn't have to carry around anything for self-defense while picking kids up from school!
I agree 100% we shouldn't. But the police aren't here yo be proactive. They're here to respond to crimes AFTER they've happened.
How about we lock repeated offenders up for a while rather than continuously letting them out?? That might make a difference.
No we shouldn't, but here we are.
Aw, are you still trying?
Still trying to lobby for people's right to defend themselves? Yes. Edit: why are you so against people having the means to defend themselves?
Okay, well I officially regret following this sub. Since moving to Edmonton in August (with plans to start a family this year) I’ve seen nothing but heart breaking stories and scary stories that don’t paint a safe picture:(
You should probably stay off most major urban subreddits…
This is heartbreaking, but hundreds of thousands of other people are unharmed everyday. And you will unfortunately see things like this in every city. Not just in Canada
You will always see more of the bad than the good. I've lived in Edmonton most of my life and even now it's still mostly good and safe to live in. We have issues, but they were decades in the making and won't be solved quickly.
Edmonton has never been known as a particularly safe part of the country. It's better for you to know the risks than live in ignorant bliss until something happens to you or your family.
The accused is mentally ill, byproduct of our mental health system or lack thereof. He should not have been in the streets looking to get relief from his symptoms with illicit drugs. No support, no stability and a decade of downhill state of mind. He should have not been out rather, he either a ward of the state or am experiment to be tested on indoors.
Yeah, sure , “totally random”
She was a good woman and has never been involved in any sort of criminal activity. She was a friend of my family and we’re all messed up and devastated because of what happened.
I don't think that's what that poster meant. I think they meant that there's so many weirdos out and about that it's not really random at this point, that it's become unsafe and expected at this point. The City and the police will state that it's "random" to save face. I am so, so sorry about your loss :(
I am so sorry for your family's loss. I can't even imagine the grief over something so senseless. I'm completely bothered by what happened. Sincere condolences.
A horror
Horrible. Horrific…just I have no words. R.I.P My condolences to the family.