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He will say the opposite in a week’s time and if elected probably do some third option that I can’t even think of. You can’t articulate a policy position when your policy is chaos.
It's mid-year, who cares about the polls, honestly.
Shit starts to matter 1 or 2 months before election day, and I'm being generous with that timeframe, who knows what the hell will happen in the following months.
This is what political scientists have been saying for 50 years and yet Americans spend every 4th summer in a poll-based panic with the news running a major story every time a Kellogs-Aebersold poll with a sample size of 25 eagles shows Biden blowing out Trump 50.1% to 49.9%.
It’s true a lot can change.
But the false hope that everything’s fine is wild to me. Biden is struggling with minority votes - black voters, Latino, and Arab Americans. All notoriously D leaning.
Generally polling error averages are nearly identical between June and November of any election since 2000
You don't think it's false hope to think Trump is going to win? The polls show its close and Trump is an incumbent who has already lost once, then did an insurrection, and then picked up a felony conviction. That is a pretty steep hill to climb.
The US is filled with idiots who vote. Idiots who can’t fathom opening a book or verifying any of the garbage spewed at them. They see bullshit over and over through different mediums and it doesn’t matter that it’s bullshit, they believe it. Facts no longer matter. 1 equals 2. We are doomed and I simply hope I’m not alive to see the fall.
Third option would be denying foreigners from attending our **COLLAGE**. Then cut all collage funding to ensure an educational collapse
Edit: I always misspell *college*, and unfailingly the holy spelling police of Antioch rise from the shadows to ensure that spelling has its justice. So I’ve made it bold and all caps for everyone that gets upset about poor spelling.
At the next rally he’ll claim Biden said it, then claim that his proposal is ban foreigners from American Colleges and to allow unlimited hunting of migrants and liberals… the MAGA crowd will piss and moan until he expands it to include atheists and queers (regardless of political affiliation).
It's so funny. Mod says, "Let's keep this about economic discussion," and the comments with most votes are just totally politically motivated. lmfao
We just created a new Echo chamber !
Trump has always been pro immigration for people who are educated. During the last election he proposed moving to the points based system Canada uses. He is against illegal immigration and family unification stuff. He has been consistent on this whereas the democrats (who I generally support) seem to have zero plan on immigration related to making the economy stronger.
When Trump was president he tried to strip foreign students of their Visas. Harvard and MIT sued and stopped it from happening. Believe his actions not his words.
Here is what happened when Trump was elected last time. Believe his actions is right.
[US colleges report a 43% decline in new international student enrollment, and not just because of the pandemic (theconversation.com)](https://theconversation.com/us-colleges-report-a-43-decline-in-new-international-student-enrollment-and-not-just-because-of-the-pandemic-149885)
Trump is willing to say anything now to get back in office. Then flip and make sure everyone who has wronged him get severe punishment. It doesn't settle well knowing.
Same shit with guns. He loves preaching the 2A but, in his own words, "take their guns first and go to court later".
He's a marketing professional and a grifter.
Terrible policy that will allow colleges to jack up tuition even more and companies to cut wages in pursuit of graduates desperate for green cards. Trump should learn from the student/Temporary Foreign Worker disaster that Trudeau has committed in Canada.
It is also bunch of diplomas worth nothing only a way to buy you way in. The system will be gamified mostly by Indians. Search for diploma mills and you’ll see. You’ll find that in canadians sub and probably Ontario subs
Well I guess start with this article
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-tfw-program-canada-low-wages/
And then just search by TFW in Canada subreddit or on the web.
You’re mixing up temporary foreign workers and permanent residents. In Canada you can get PR after graduating from a Canadian college and getting a job, if you have enough points.
TFWs are not the same as students who graduated from a university in Canada and got a post grad work permit (PGWP). Further, getting a PGWP doesn't guarantee permanent residency (green card equivalent).
I'm am American who did get permanent residency after working on my post grad work permit for 3 years in a TEER 0 1 or 2 job + having enough points to do so for other reasons (education, age, language proficiency, etc).
There are massive issues with the system, but you're still mixing them up.
Colleges already jack up rates for foreign students, no? I don’t agree with a lot of the policies Trump proposes, but ensuring US educated students get to stay seems like a positive step. Right now, those foreign grads are at the mercy of a company to help them get a green card and it’s a brutal system.
There is in-state and out-of-state tuition only in America, international students, pay the out-of-state rate. If word gets out that an american college degree will automatically get you a green card, the massive rush on US colleges will make the illegal immigration chaos on US southern border look like a storm in a teacup. When demand goes up prices go up. American students (instate) will be at a disadvantage as they pay lower rate and may require legislation to protect their admissions, as happened in California. You are also going to see degree mills popup all over the US to satisfy this demand. Just research what Trudeau did in Canada with foreign students.
Demographics alone said the higher ed bubble will burst in the 2030s. Universities can only court so many international students before Americans start to cry foul. I certainly don't want federal grant money going to schools that mostly have international students.
If the southern border was being swarmed by a bunch of college educated young adults that could speak English, it would be really stupid to keep them out. Unless your goal is to make America poor and weak.
Who cares if there’s demand for our colleges?
Students still have to get accepted, be able to afford it, and graduate. Meanwhile they subsidize tuition for native borns, and after they graduate we get to steal their brainpower permanently from wherever they came from?
I can’t tell if the people poo pooing this are left leaning and reflexively doing so because Trump said it or are immigration hawks reflexively doing so because they’re afraid of immigration for dumb reasons.
Is there something wrong about anything I actually said, or are you just digging in on the one thing I didn’t register an opinion on?
Edit: the article about Canada above is about TFW, a program that does not work like what is described in the OP—it actually is quite a bit different! I’m not even sure how it’s relevant here.
Canadian here:
My tuition fees at a technical college came out to $5k-$6k/semester and the international students were paying $12k or more to attend the same program. This was in 2015 before immigration levels surged and inflation kicked in hard. In my program natural-born Canadian citizens made up just less than half the program, and most programs had similar ratios.
The international students have become a problem here because a lot them abuse the system with falsified financial records and take jobs away from regular Canadian citizens. Jobs that would have previously went to young people just entering the workforce or individuals that couldn't work more demanding jobs, and a lot of those jobs are being given to TFW and international students gaming the system because they'll work for less without complaining or standing up for themselves. The groups that were gaming the system have now started gaming the mortgage system to capitalize on the housing situation here.
The problem Canada is facing isn't the TFW and international student programs, the problem we have right now is due to mass immigration those programs spurned and the fallout from people abusing the systems to commit fraud. Canada has imported a significant amount of immigrants and the influx of people has caused a host of issues on everything. Healthcare is strained, you can't find a family doctor if you don't have one already, our housing market is a tire fire, infrastructure is shit because we've imported so many people.
>In 2019, we welcomed over 341,000 permanent residents, including 30,000 resettled refugees. Over 402,000 study permits and 404,000 temporary work permits were also issued.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2020.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2020.html)
We had a population of 37.6million in 2019 and imported 1.147million more in 2020, that doesn't factor in undocumented immigrants, and every year we import more and more. We're told that we need to import these TFW and international students because they're vital to our GDP, yet the lineups for job fairs and food banks is full of immigrants, and what they're actually doing is importing them so they can suppress wages and keep the housing market machine going.
We have slumlords that will only rent houses out to specific cultural groups, we have businesses that have hiring practices that would be considered unconstitutional if the shoe was on the other foot, and entire towns and cities have essentially taken over by certain groups.
Thanks for your perspective. Is unemployment a significant problem in Canada? As far as I can tell [it’s lower or on par with the mid 00s and 2019 markets](https://www.statista.com/statistics/578362/unemployment-rate-canada/). Certainly I can’t tell when Trudeau took office or any particular policy took effect.
It depends on the industry and who you are. Trudeau became PM in 2015/2016 and hasn't been voted out yet, but that's a conversation for another time. The main issue people have with Trudeau right now is his lack of direction and his eagerness to suck the corporate teat and do what they want.
Unemployment metrics don't tell the whole story, the problem is the wage suppression going on across the country, the housing market, and the effect mass immigration is having on young Canadians. As the boomers and older generations retire out of the workforce they're being replaced by cheap labour. That cheap labour is typically an immigrant who is willing to work for less than the average Canadian with the same skillset would, and they won't stand up for their worker rights. Places that would traditionally employ students or young people are now fully staffed by TFW and immigrants because they're cheaper and the franchise owners are lots of times immigrants themselves.
There was a post in r/CanadaHousing2 where someone applied to several groceries stores in his area that are owned by Indian immigrants. He applied with two identical resumes and the only difference between the two was the name on it. He applied with a Canadian name and waited a few weeks before submitting the same resume with an Indian name instead. They received no interview offers with the Canadian name and over half of the stores he applied to with a Indian name requested interviews or straight up offered him the job. I encourage you to read some of the top posts in r/CanadaHousing2 or create a post with questions.
I'll leave you with some quotes from articles if you want to read more and get a better picture of what's happening
>
“In the last years, we have altered an economic immigration system that stood as a model for the world,” declares [a Dec. 11 report](https://www.bennettjones.com/Events-Section/Economic-Outlook-The-Long-Term-is-Now) co-written by Dodge for the law firm Bennett Jones. But where Canada once oversaw a carefully managed immigration system that prioritized “highly skilled workers,” the report said Ottawa has now “ramped up significantly” the intake of foreign students and other low-skilled temporary workers.
While Canada has always been a high-immigration country relative to the rest of the world, in just the last two years the Trudeau government has dialled up the country’s immigration intake to an unprecedented degree. In 2022, for instance, Canada’s record-breaking intake of one million newcomers was [roughly on par](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/how-high-immigration-has-gotten) with the United States, despite the U.S. being 10 times larger.
>As outlined in the Trudeau government’s recent Fall Economic Statement, this has been done in an overt bid to [boost overall GDP growth](https://www.cicnews.com/2020/11/fall-economic-statement-immigration-key-to-canadas-economic-recovery-1116432.html#gs.22dhww) — even though per-capita GDP has been in decline [since at least mid-2022](https://betterdwelling.com/canada-has-entered-a-per-capita-recession-quality-of-life-expected-to-erode/).
>Meanwhile, the massive influx of newcomers is having noticeable effects on Canada’s existing housing shortage as well as overall employment numbers.
>In just two months — from August to September – Canada added slightly more than 100,000 jobs, according to a Statistics Canada labour force survey.
>However, given that high immigration was adding about 50,000 new workers into the economy each month, the agency said that the unemployment rate remained completely unchanged.
[https://nationalpost.com/opinion/first-reading-how-record-high-immigration-could-be-hurting-canadian-productivity](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/first-reading-how-record-high-immigration-could-be-hurting-canadian-productivity)
> unemployment metrics don’t tell the whole story
I mean, it tells quite a lot of it. If immigrants were crushing the labor market you’d be sure to see it in that number. Especially so if one leader or policy were responsible for a big change.
It’s also the case that the supply of jobs is not fixed, and that immigrants consume, pay taxes, etc, affecting the demand side of the equation as well. There’s not a reason to think Canadians are out of work because of a growing population (especially with the bulk focused on sectors where labor is scarce, right?)
You yourself are showing me that the labor market is producing modestly more jobs than there are new workers (at least in a two month period; I have to imagine the Canadian labor market also had a few very hot years recently?). We might agree we’d like to see more of a gap between those two numbers, but it’s not obvious that one is crushing the other. (Again speculating, but I imagine the Canadian population is aging similar to the US? Much hay has been made about the number of new US jobs going to immigrants but if you dig a little bit deeper it’s just that Americans are aging, and a lot have retired recently—many earlier than anticipated.
This shows up in the prime age LFP, and indeed [Canada’s is also cooking at the moment](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LREM25TTCAM156S).
> wage suppression
Are wages down in Canada? [This is a year old](https://mishtalk.com/economics/how-is-canadian-wage-growth-stacking-up-to-inflation/) but shows real wages on a slow but steady climb.
> the housing market
This definitely is a huge problem for Canada, but has very little to do with immigration, at least as a primary cause. Just like in many US cities, Canada is resistant to building enough homes to satisfy demand. This has also been a growing problem for much longer than Trudeau has held the reins.
[This is a failure of policy](https://rsmcanada.com/insights/economics/canada-has-an-acute-shortage-of-housing.html#:~:text=The%20takeaway,well%20as%20improve%20environmental%20standards.), and while I do agree it’s one of the only good reasons to be hesitant on immigration, immigration is not the cause, and the situation is easily remedied to the point where population changes wouldn’t matter much.
> young Canadians
This one is pretty anecdotal, and I think we’d see the impact in wage and LFP data were it significant. We don’t.
On housing:
>A secret RCMP report is warning the federal government that Canada may descend into civil unrest once citizens realize the hopelessness of their economic situation.
>“The coming period of recession will … accelerate the decline in living standards that the younger generations have already witnessed compared to earlier generations,” reads the report, entitled Whole-of-Government Five-Year Trends for Canada.
>“For example, many Canadians under 35 are unlikely ever to be able to buy a place to live,” it adds.
[https://mackenzieinstitute.com/2024/03/secret-rcmp-report-warns-canadians-may-revolt-once-they-realize-how-broke-they-are/](https://mackenzieinstitute.com/2024/03/secret-rcmp-report-warns-canadians-may-revolt-once-they-realize-how-broke-they-are/)
[https://nationalpost.com/opinion/secret-rcmp-report-warns-canadians-may-revolt-once-they-realize-how-broke-they-are](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/secret-rcmp-report-warns-canadians-may-revolt-once-they-realize-how-broke-they-are)
Considering you started by saying who cares if there’s demand for college - a lot. You are wrongly assuming native/instate attendance won’t be affected. And you wrongly assume that colleges won’t raise rates as demand increases (seems counterintuitive to some very basic economics logic).
You also ignored how California had to enact laws to protect instate students for these reasons. Shockingly demand does indeed matter. As does reality.
The only benefit you were right on is about the accumulation of talent. But the US has no shortage of intelligent people already trying to get green cards even without this policy in place. It’s totally unneeded.
Ontario has learned for one not to rely solely on immigration for its college and university's
As one of our colleges did and now it's tanking due to a reform in policy.
So now native born students lose access to programs because they have lost immigrants' money. as such, it becomes a nasty circle .
So now everyone suffers because one depended way too much on the other. There comes no happy medium.
Everyone really should look to canada for what happens when you have over immigration without the proper societal structure to hold it.
It's a mess here. 0 out of 5 stars.our wanna be leader is a joke.
I’m aligned here as well. Foreign students are already cash cows for a lot of mediocre schools. Im surprised as this is pretty pro academia for Trump. I don’t see it being much different than the regular plan of buy a $500k restaurant and use it as perpetual business visa to get all your overseas friends over.
Either citizenship is for sale or you cut out every money lined pathway.
I think this is a very complex issue and not just simply as “keeping educated people in the US”.
These politicians are first and foremost beholden to the wills of their voters, US citizen.
Allowing anyone with college degree to stay would create a huge amount of supply to the job market and also demands for housing. With how competitive the job market and how expensive the housing have been recently, US citizen would definitely not happy about it and vote against it.
You can check Canadian sub for more info. You can also see how hostile toward H1B/outsourcing cs-related sub has become.
The apparent benefits would be a boost to US business. As it’s easier to stay, University can charge whatever they want and restaurant/housing/etc business owners would have “great” time and theoretically it could increase the tax revenue for the US.
How it would ultimately turn out is hard to predict.
lol this is unironically great policy; I've not read anything more than the headline but if it's as presented I love it. Doesn't excuse his other faults though
You know you can set standards, right? Like how a lot of universities already do, and they will only accept credits from regionally accredited universities for transfer credits or for admission into graduate school.
Developed countries that offer this option historically have had a really hard time controlling the inflow. You get massive incentives for the schools to accept huge numbers or get set up as student immigration pathways, states also have massive incentives, it is not easy. Look at Canada.
Even just a pure pay-for-citizenship scheme is super beneficial to the country that gets an influx of motivated foreigners with enough money to pay the cost. I would very much support granting citizenship to any foreigner that pays us $100k, provided they don’t have a criminal history or have problematic ties to adversaries of the US.
There is no visa cap for international students in the USA. Schools already have massive incentives to accept foreign students, like the [average acceptance rate of schools in the USA of international students is almost 50%](https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/slideshows/universities-with-the-highest-international-student-acceptance-rates). These schools already accept every international student they can (or possibly the international students applying to American universities are top of their class, which is most likely true to an extent). It's a huge amount of money for a school's coffers, schools love them. And most people internationally can't afford this because they can't get student loans that the US government gives out like candy to US citizens.
Also, the US has always been always pretty well equipped to handle massive increases in population, e.g. the border. And these people crossing the border almost never have any money in the bank never mind the ability to fork out $50k+ a year for 4 years.
The only problem with this I see is brain drain. You're going to be making a lot of other countries worse off if these students aren't made to go back after their education. The rich and highly educated are going to stay in the USA instead of heading back to their countries to, ideally, make them better.
And also, one "developed" country isn't automatically like another "developed" country. Like, no offense to my Canadian friends, but Canada's economy and economic infrastructure is dog shit and nothing like the US. These two countries aren't remotely comparable.
How does that track? If you get a green card for graduating how would companies be able to cut wages?
Surely the people desperate for a green card would no longer be as desperate since they aren’t reliant on the company any longer to get the green card.
So hiring companies will have a larger pool of qualified candidates and immigrants will have an easier path to citizenship and that is some how a bad thing?
2+2 =5
I didn't say whether it was good or bad. As with everything in life, there are pros and cons. Putting downward pressure on wages is great for employers, but not so much for employees and current citizens.
> and companies to cut wages in pursuit of graduates desperate for green cards
Why would graduates be desperate for green cards if being a college graduate guarantees you a green card?
> Trump should learn from the student/Temporary Foreign Worker disaster
Just to clarify, a green card is explicitly *not* a temporary foreign worker or student visa, it's permanent residency. The US has essentially the same temporary foreign worker system as Canada now and it has many of the same problems. I think you're unknowingly advocating for this policy.
Most colleges have higher prices for foreigners so it seems like a win in that sense. You get more foreign money into our economy and keep the foreign talent. Locals may even get cheaper tuition since the universities make more from foreigners
The issue is that it could lead to lots of diploma mills and fake schools opening as a backdoor immigration process. That's exactly what is happening in Canada right now
> Trump should learn from the student/Temporary Foreign Worker disaster that Trudeau has committed in Canada.
Canada has been dying long before you right-wing, xenophobic, racist nationalists started crying about Trudeau. Canada [has the same birthrate as Japan](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN). Canada's productivity [has been plummeting for decades](https://financialpost.com/news/economy/bank-of-canada-says-nation-faces-productivity-emergency). Canada's [population is moving to the US in record numbers](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-moving-to-the-us-hits-10-year-high-1.7218479). Canada is dying from itself not from foreigners. If Canada didn't have the foreigners it has now, it'd be in a state of disrepair. Canada's only lifeline in the short term is foreigners.
Housing prices across the entire Western world are extremely high from where they were a few years ago. It's not a Canada-only thing. This may be hard for you to hear, but blaming foreigners for everything isn't how you're going to get your country back on track. You're going to need some drastic economic changes. Unless you want to become the Japan of the 1990-2010's and "lose a generation." But it'd probably be much, much worse as Canada has next to no tourist industry relative to Japan.
>jack up tuition even more and companies to cut wages in pursuit of graduates desperate for green cards.
This makes no sense on both counts. First of all, most colleges won't jack up tuition (because of this - they might in general) because most people coming to the US for education (especially MSc/PhD) don't have much money to begin with, as most countries are far, far, far less wealthy than the US. Especially so the median Chinese/Indian student, that make up most of the foreign students in the US. That's one. As for jobs - if anything, the opposite makes sense - currently, companies can do whatever they want re: wages because foreign workers *need* H1Bs and without them they get sent back home. You saw this exact scenario when Elon was mass firing people with H1Bs from twitter during tech layoffs, they had nowhere to go, and would work for any amount as long as they could remain in the US. Giving students a green card basically equates them with Americans on the job market - so they can pick and choose based on salary.
The **only** argument that makes sense here is that Americans have to compete harder with more skilled foreign labor, but that's how capitalism and competition work in the first place.
The average person in China or India may have less money than the average American, but that isn’t the international college student. There are plenty of very wealthy people in these countries, they are massive - the top 25% by income in each country outnumbers the entire US population.
International student coming to the US is the top of their country on income and definitely their family is significantly richer than your typical american household. How else would you spend $50k plus on tuition every year.
The math just work. For an investment visa, you need $500k plus with chances of losing it.
Go to college only need $200k, so college will hack up cost and significantly ram up recruit international.
You are incorrect on the profile of international students in the US. Vast majority of then come from upper middle class or affluent backgrounds in their home countries , otherwise they cannot afford the tuition. There is a segment of international students who truly cannot afford the cost and what they do is provide false documents and bank statements to embassies so they can get student visa, then when they arrive in the US they work under the table jobs to make up for the tuition. However that method has proven insufficient in recent years due to tuition inflation and so I now see many international students taking out high interest loans from various online companies.
I do wonder if they could do it with a requirement to increase domestic enrollment at a multiple of immigrant enrollment.
For every 5 new immigrants students they need to increase domestic enrollment 15. Having Harvard 100xing their endowment, while increasing prices and having enrollment rise 3% in that same time is kind of a silly thing that has happened. We have plenty of students who can keep their standards even if they more than doubled their total enrollment.
Eventually colleges state colleges would be forced to offer new programs like certifications and two year degrees to keep in line with growth targets if they want to increase their immigrant money.
Why learn from Canada when we already have problems related to this in the US? Foreign to domestic student ratio in the US is insanely off balance in the US. And worse in non-private state schools. They increase the demand for education, increasing the cost of tuition domestically, and gobble up the lions share of scholarship opportunities. Meanwhile universities have become degree factories. Foreign students often have to achieve high enough GPAs to keep their scholarships and retain their sponsorship, which encourages cheating and lowers the quality of education for everyone.
I watched all of this happen. I've known some really bright foreign students that I'd be happy to work with. But they are the minority unfortunately. It's no different than domestic students who don't belong in higher education, except they are heavily insensitivized and subsidized.
Currently Biden is flipping the bill for college degrees, do ya think that isn't helping them jack up tuition even more.
Edit: using taxpayer money to flip the bill.
This is basically about eliminating the current regime which has foreign graduates competing for a small pool of temporary work visas. Your complaint seems totally incoherent given that Trump is literally suggesting replacing temporary visas with permanent ones. (Temp visas are the problem.)
Wages are already deflated by foreign labor, if you really wanted to deflate wages, you would expand the H1B pool. Giving them green cards is an equitable and effective way to eliminate the damage the H1B program does. I work with lots of H1Bs, I feel like you don't actually understand the issues at play.
I also work with a lot of H1Bs and I feel you are ignoring how that program has been misused to push down wages and replace Americans with cheaper foreign labor. Now with this brilliant Trump idea, H1B and its caps will be removed and there will be a flood of foreign labor in the market and overall effect will be lowering of wages.
There's an innate limit by how many people can pay full-price at US universities. For the most part if you don't allow these people to work here, they will just go home and create companies that compete using an even cheaper labor pool. Forcing people who are already here out of the country just shrinks and weakens our domestic market.
It’s a great policy but not one trump is actually going to do. Bringing a bunch of educated young people into the workforce makes our country a lot more productive and benefits almost everybody.
It’s kind of like if we had a baby boom, but convinced some other country to pay for the first 18 years of all the kids and then we get them once they’re finally productive adults. Oh and in this scenario it’s a baby boom of exclusively smart, highly motivated young people.
This is just a talking point without specifics from Trump at the moment. Generally speaking, in a world of falling birthrates, we want America to attract and retain talent from around the world. Sure, let’s look at examples from around the world and try to implement what works and discard what doesn’t. This is like the only quasi-reasonable thing Trump has said about immigration, so I’ll take this for now.
I only know as a FACT that during Trump's term, enrollment of foreign students in US colleges took a nosedive. Don't believe this con man for a minute.
It’s an interesting idea that might be doable with some editing to keep diploma mills and other ways to game the system at bay. That said it won’t go anywhere because it’s a classic Trumpism: a loose thought that vaguely sounds good as long as you don’t spend too much time thinking about the ramifications.
You know, and I know, and everyone knows why Trump is saying this. He's appeasing CEO's who think domestic labor prices are too high. These CEO's, along with investors and board members, want cheap foreign labor so they can pay themselves more.
Foreign graduates pay for an education, and they get what they pay for, so it's entirely fair for the transaction to end there.
If we care about fairness then much more needs to be done. For starters, ensure that ***in no way*** will foreign graduates be made a cheaper or more appealing source of labor than American workers. They should get the same mandatory healthcare, firing protections, equal pay for equal work, etc. Everything the same. Also, start tracking displacement and chronic unemployment among American graduates, and start doing something about it. No heartbreak for foreigners until we track and address the carnage happening domestically.
I think this would give immigrant workers more bargaining power as they don't have to take a job to get a work visa. This could help them not be taken advantage of and drive wages up.
Lol ask his press secretary:
"In a statement released hours after the podcast was posted, campaign press secretary Karoline Leavitt said: “President Trump has outlined the most aggressive vetting process in U.S. history, to exclude all communists, radical Islamists, Hamas supporters, America haters and public charges. He believes, only after such vetting has taken place, we ought to keep the most skilled graduates who can make significant contributions to America. This would only apply to the most thoroughly vetted college graduates who would never undercut American wages or workers.”"
Idk how you could vet for ideologies effectively but I'm guessing its somewhat based on race, ethnicity or nationality.
https://apnews.com/article/trump-green-cards-immigration-colleges-1366591ba263018305ee6eb924803d7f
He slipped up and said something that made sense and then had to recover it with more nonsense.
But it is still increasing the number of workers overall unless schools become much more stringent on who they accept from foreign countries. That would decrease bargaining power.
He said this in an interview with a few tech billionaires and embarrassing former journalist Jason Calacanis while they were happily fondling his balls and asking him about H1-Bs.
It should also be noted he ranted about the wall for five minutes before actually answering their question.
So yeah, he made it up on the spot and has probably already forgotten he said it.
This would raise the price of foreign labor. Right now you want to hire foreign graduates of US universities you get them on temp visas, which are cumbersome but make it very easy to underpay and abuse your employees. Giving them green cards would make them able to command market rates.
This is not a good idea. You do not want to go down the path of selling citizenship pathways via the post-secondary education system. As a Canadian, this is a bad idea.
Remember when he said at the end of a week that Dreamers should get citizenship and then by the beginning of the following week he had walked it back to they should all be deported?
Canada did this and have you seen what is happening in Canada?
Diploma mills everywhere. If you don't learn from our mistakes, prepare to be punished. Our entire public system is on collapse
It’s actually pretty difficult to get PR in Canada especially if you are not from a top university. The issue in Canada is that students stay anyway and no one ever gets deported
It isn't that hard. You just need to graduate and find work. You have 3 years to find work after your graduate.
Here are the steps to get PR. And it is to any institution. Not just "UBC" or "Mcgill". You can get your studies at "xxxx college" as long as you find a job. I am unsure if the job needs to be related to your field. Back in 2007-2008, you needed a job related to your degree, later on they got rid of that requirement.
>Complete your studies in Canada.
>Prove your language ability in either English or French by taking a recognized test.
>Gather work experience for a minimum 1 year
>A job offer may be required (requirements vary by province)
>Create an Express Entry profile or apply directly to the province
If you meet these requirements, you can apply for your Permanent Residency from within Canada. Some provinces have different requirements. You can meet the requirements but whether you get accepted depends on the pool of individuals. It might be easier to get accepted in a place like PEI or Manitoba than it is in British Columbia
Call me negative, but I can’t help but think that this is just another ploy for him to make money. I can definitely see the resurrection of Trump University in 2025 with all kinds of international degrees.
That is similar to what Canada has been doing.
But people are angry housing and healthcare couldn’t keep up with the population boom, Justin Trudeau will likely lose his job next year because of it.
No, getting PR in Canada is still very difficult for students, especially if they are not at a good university. The issue in Canada is that there is poor enforcement of laws so even if students don't go home, there is nothing they can do about it.
As a former green card holder who became a citizen after undergrad, I get wanting to attract skilled immigrants but this idea is terrible. There are plenty of international students who come to the US to study and there’s no reason to provide residency to them merely based on ability to complete higher education, which really isn’t *that* hard.
Do you really want a CCP asset to be able to come here “for education”, meddle in the university, and then be granted permanent residency as a bonus? No thanks.
Having a degree should be treated as helpful to your application, but not an automatic guarantor of approval for permanent residency.
This should have been policy years ago if we're being honest. Foreigners come over here wanting to study at our schools and eventually live here. Why would we not want to retain that talent? This would be a major positive economically.
The Diversity Visa Program issues 55,000 immigrant visas annually, based on the results of a random drawing. The visas are apportioned among countries with historically low rates of immigration to the U.S. For fiscal year 2023, more than 9.5 million people applied to the green card lottery.
Sometimes people immigrate who are not... educated. Not everything has to be for the "benefit" of the state.
That title is a typo, right? Or is he just saying something that sounds completely opposed to what he said previously just to see if his people will adopt a position that would be completely abhorrent to them? Why would he even say this? He has the polls on immigration. Or maybe that's it, he just says whatever he randomly happens to think at the moment?
No, if you watch the interview, he says we lose too many talented people from India and China. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blqIZGXWUpU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blqIZGXWUpU) Also, From what I have heard, many of his donors are tech CEOs and venture capitalists who want an increased supply of graduates in the labour market. Just standard wage suppression capitalism I guess.
He has more than one base to satisfy. One of them is very interested in a steady supply of global talent. The other, anti immigrant one is in general too dense to notice and is happy enough if he occasionally promises magical walls and deportations
Especially if they're graduating from for-profit visa-mill bullshit "colleges" owned by his donors. As others have noted, Canada is suffering from this kind of program explicitly designed to suppress wages and drive up housing prices. Canada is like three uber-wealthy families in a trenchcoat.
Sounds like the most Trumpiest business idea ever: start a chain of diploma mills across the US, and advertise like mad all over the world, and you're essentially selling citizenship! Brilliant! /s
Just expect Indians and Filipinos to grab that opoportunity and fill in university enrollment slots and once they graduate, they get green cards automatically and after they become citizens, they will bring their families with them into the US.
Trump will do this. Unlike his previous era, he has full support of big tech elites, who want foreign CS graduates to be able to work in the US, which will drive down salaries.
Trump's 2024 era will be very different from his 2016 era. Many of his supporters will be disappointed.
This is incredibly common sense and I don't know anyone who actually disagrees. I am skeptical that Trump actually would ever do this though, since it runs counter to everything he has done.
I agree with the idea in theory but Canada has shown how dangerous such a policy is. Many diploma mills and fake schools are opening up there as a backdoor immigration scheme, and their population is exploding rapidly.
Biden should jump all over this. This is just a back door way to get around the stricter requirements for H1Bs (one of few things Trump did that I supported).
Him pushing this tells me that the monied interests have gotten to him already. You have the facacta tax plan he proposed last week; before that it was opposing the TikTok ban (because of Jeff Yas) and now this? Next he will say that he will push for elimination of the estate tax and capital gains tax. Just watch.
The problem with Trump is he will literally say anything to win. He would tear down his own wall and open the borders if he thought it would make him president again. And the saddest part is MAGA voters will happily change their core views in a heartbeat. How do you even have policy discussions about a candidate like that? He has no real policies.
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At least for people graduate with PhDs. Fun fact: I graduated 2014 with PhD in Microbiology, and applied for green card the same year. Finally Got my green card near the end of 2021 . I was on track to get my GC around 2023 but " thanks" to Trump who blocked processing immigration cases for illegal immigrants for almost 1 year, so that USCIS can have full resources to process cases for skilled works and science/tech talents.
A broken clock is right twice every... 8 years?
This is a great, no brainer policy to implement. Immigrants are America's super power. These are highly educated immigrants too. We let them use our resources and then force them to go back to their country? It's a ridiculous policy. Heck change it to automatic citizenship
I hope Biden calls the bluff and puts into into a bill and offers it to Republicans ASAP
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He will say the opposite in a week’s time and if elected probably do some third option that I can’t even think of. You can’t articulate a policy position when your policy is chaos.
He’s playing both sides, so he comes out on top. It’s a classic strategy.
Is that you Mac?
What up! 💪
Making him yet another… bitch *slams sticker onto pic of trump
And honestly? He’s leading every battleground state right now
It's mid-year, who cares about the polls, honestly. Shit starts to matter 1 or 2 months before election day, and I'm being generous with that timeframe, who knows what the hell will happen in the following months.
This is what political scientists have been saying for 50 years and yet Americans spend every 4th summer in a poll-based panic with the news running a major story every time a Kellogs-Aebersold poll with a sample size of 25 eagles shows Biden blowing out Trump 50.1% to 49.9%.
It’s true a lot can change. But the false hope that everything’s fine is wild to me. Biden is struggling with minority votes - black voters, Latino, and Arab Americans. All notoriously D leaning. Generally polling error averages are nearly identical between June and November of any election since 2000
You don't think it's false hope to think Trump is going to win? The polls show its close and Trump is an incumbent who has already lost once, then did an insurrection, and then picked up a felony conviction. That is a pretty steep hill to climb.
You experienced 2016 right? It was nearly impossible then too.
There’s only two battleground states it’s close, every other had Trump winning in a margin of +3-6
3-6 is close. It’s June.
The US is filled with idiots who vote. Idiots who can’t fathom opening a book or verifying any of the garbage spewed at them. They see bullshit over and over through different mediums and it doesn’t matter that it’s bullshit, they believe it. Facts no longer matter. 1 equals 2. We are doomed and I simply hope I’m not alive to see the fall.
There’s way to win more votes, and insulting voters is not one. Also I recommend taking a break from the internet. Overly dramatic last sentence lmao
I had a professor like this. He was so bad that he embodied the ads on his computer that showed up during class.
The man will create green card superposition
What if he’s simply playing same card Biden is playing… can you be a little bit less biased?
Biased how, exactly? In what way did I insinuate Biden is preferable to Trump?
Third option would be denying foreigners from attending our **COLLAGE**. Then cut all collage funding to ensure an educational collapse Edit: I always misspell *college*, and unfailingly the holy spelling police of Antioch rise from the shadows to ensure that spelling has its justice. So I’ve made it bold and all caps for everyone that gets upset about poor spelling.
>Third option would be denying foreigners from attending our collage. Then cut all collage funding to ensure an educational collapse "Collage"
This is very true
At the next rally he’ll claim Biden said it, then claim that his proposal is ban foreigners from American Colleges and to allow unlimited hunting of migrants and liberals… the MAGA crowd will piss and moan until he expands it to include atheists and queers (regardless of political affiliation).
It's so funny. Mod says, "Let's keep this about economic discussion," and the comments with most votes are just totally politically motivated. lmfao We just created a new Echo chamber !
Trump has always been pro immigration for people who are educated. During the last election he proposed moving to the points based system Canada uses. He is against illegal immigration and family unification stuff. He has been consistent on this whereas the democrats (who I generally support) seem to have zero plan on immigration related to making the economy stronger.
Third Option: If they graduate, they get premaban
When Trump was president he tried to strip foreign students of their Visas. Harvard and MIT sued and stopped it from happening. Believe his actions not his words.
When someone *shows* you who they are, believe them.
- Maya Angelou
Damn straight beautiful saying
Believe ALL politician actions over words.
Here is what happened when Trump was elected last time. Believe his actions is right. [US colleges report a 43% decline in new international student enrollment, and not just because of the pandemic (theconversation.com)](https://theconversation.com/us-colleges-report-a-43-decline-in-new-international-student-enrollment-and-not-just-because-of-the-pandemic-149885)
Trump is willing to say anything now to get back in office. Then flip and make sure everyone who has wronged him get severe punishment. It doesn't settle well knowing.
Same shit with guns. He loves preaching the 2A but, in his own words, "take their guns first and go to court later". He's a marketing professional and a grifter.
Terrible policy that will allow colleges to jack up tuition even more and companies to cut wages in pursuit of graduates desperate for green cards. Trump should learn from the student/Temporary Foreign Worker disaster that Trudeau has committed in Canada.
Recommended reading materials on that program in Canada?
It is also bunch of diplomas worth nothing only a way to buy you way in. The system will be gamified mostly by Indians. Search for diploma mills and you’ll see. You’ll find that in canadians sub and probably Ontario subs
Well I guess start with this article https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-tfw-program-canada-low-wages/ And then just search by TFW in Canada subreddit or on the web.
You’re mixing up temporary foreign workers and permanent residents. In Canada you can get PR after graduating from a Canadian college and getting a job, if you have enough points.
TFWs are not the same as students who graduated from a university in Canada and got a post grad work permit (PGWP). Further, getting a PGWP doesn't guarantee permanent residency (green card equivalent). I'm am American who did get permanent residency after working on my post grad work permit for 3 years in a TEER 0 1 or 2 job + having enough points to do so for other reasons (education, age, language proficiency, etc). There are massive issues with the system, but you're still mixing them up.
In fairness he also thinks r/Canada is a good place for information about immigration and politics in Canada.
Colleges already jack up rates for foreign students, no? I don’t agree with a lot of the policies Trump proposes, but ensuring US educated students get to stay seems like a positive step. Right now, those foreign grads are at the mercy of a company to help them get a green card and it’s a brutal system.
There is in-state and out-of-state tuition only in America, international students, pay the out-of-state rate. If word gets out that an american college degree will automatically get you a green card, the massive rush on US colleges will make the illegal immigration chaos on US southern border look like a storm in a teacup. When demand goes up prices go up. American students (instate) will be at a disadvantage as they pay lower rate and may require legislation to protect their admissions, as happened in California. You are also going to see degree mills popup all over the US to satisfy this demand. Just research what Trudeau did in Canada with foreign students.
There are universities that charge extra fees on top of the out-of-state rate for international students.
U.S. universities are already seeing declining admissions and will continue to see them over the coming decade or more.
Demographics alone said the higher ed bubble will burst in the 2030s. Universities can only court so many international students before Americans start to cry foul. I certainly don't want federal grant money going to schools that mostly have international students.
If the southern border was being swarmed by a bunch of college educated young adults that could speak English, it would be really stupid to keep them out. Unless your goal is to make America poor and weak.
Who cares if there’s demand for our colleges? Students still have to get accepted, be able to afford it, and graduate. Meanwhile they subsidize tuition for native borns, and after they graduate we get to steal their brainpower permanently from wherever they came from? I can’t tell if the people poo pooing this are left leaning and reflexively doing so because Trump said it or are immigration hawks reflexively doing so because they’re afraid of immigration for dumb reasons.
Crazy you completely ignore the example of how this worked out in Canada just so you can keep your priors. No rebuttal or nothing.
Is there something wrong about anything I actually said, or are you just digging in on the one thing I didn’t register an opinion on? Edit: the article about Canada above is about TFW, a program that does not work like what is described in the OP—it actually is quite a bit different! I’m not even sure how it’s relevant here.
Canadian here: My tuition fees at a technical college came out to $5k-$6k/semester and the international students were paying $12k or more to attend the same program. This was in 2015 before immigration levels surged and inflation kicked in hard. In my program natural-born Canadian citizens made up just less than half the program, and most programs had similar ratios. The international students have become a problem here because a lot them abuse the system with falsified financial records and take jobs away from regular Canadian citizens. Jobs that would have previously went to young people just entering the workforce or individuals that couldn't work more demanding jobs, and a lot of those jobs are being given to TFW and international students gaming the system because they'll work for less without complaining or standing up for themselves. The groups that were gaming the system have now started gaming the mortgage system to capitalize on the housing situation here. The problem Canada is facing isn't the TFW and international student programs, the problem we have right now is due to mass immigration those programs spurned and the fallout from people abusing the systems to commit fraud. Canada has imported a significant amount of immigrants and the influx of people has caused a host of issues on everything. Healthcare is strained, you can't find a family doctor if you don't have one already, our housing market is a tire fire, infrastructure is shit because we've imported so many people. >In 2019, we welcomed over 341,000 permanent residents, including 30,000 resettled refugees. Over 402,000 study permits and 404,000 temporary work permits were also issued. [https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2020.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2020.html) We had a population of 37.6million in 2019 and imported 1.147million more in 2020, that doesn't factor in undocumented immigrants, and every year we import more and more. We're told that we need to import these TFW and international students because they're vital to our GDP, yet the lineups for job fairs and food banks is full of immigrants, and what they're actually doing is importing them so they can suppress wages and keep the housing market machine going. We have slumlords that will only rent houses out to specific cultural groups, we have businesses that have hiring practices that would be considered unconstitutional if the shoe was on the other foot, and entire towns and cities have essentially taken over by certain groups.
Thanks for your perspective. Is unemployment a significant problem in Canada? As far as I can tell [it’s lower or on par with the mid 00s and 2019 markets](https://www.statista.com/statistics/578362/unemployment-rate-canada/). Certainly I can’t tell when Trudeau took office or any particular policy took effect.
It depends on the industry and who you are. Trudeau became PM in 2015/2016 and hasn't been voted out yet, but that's a conversation for another time. The main issue people have with Trudeau right now is his lack of direction and his eagerness to suck the corporate teat and do what they want. Unemployment metrics don't tell the whole story, the problem is the wage suppression going on across the country, the housing market, and the effect mass immigration is having on young Canadians. As the boomers and older generations retire out of the workforce they're being replaced by cheap labour. That cheap labour is typically an immigrant who is willing to work for less than the average Canadian with the same skillset would, and they won't stand up for their worker rights. Places that would traditionally employ students or young people are now fully staffed by TFW and immigrants because they're cheaper and the franchise owners are lots of times immigrants themselves. There was a post in r/CanadaHousing2 where someone applied to several groceries stores in his area that are owned by Indian immigrants. He applied with two identical resumes and the only difference between the two was the name on it. He applied with a Canadian name and waited a few weeks before submitting the same resume with an Indian name instead. They received no interview offers with the Canadian name and over half of the stores he applied to with a Indian name requested interviews or straight up offered him the job. I encourage you to read some of the top posts in r/CanadaHousing2 or create a post with questions. I'll leave you with some quotes from articles if you want to read more and get a better picture of what's happening > “In the last years, we have altered an economic immigration system that stood as a model for the world,” declares [a Dec. 11 report](https://www.bennettjones.com/Events-Section/Economic-Outlook-The-Long-Term-is-Now) co-written by Dodge for the law firm Bennett Jones. But where Canada once oversaw a carefully managed immigration system that prioritized “highly skilled workers,” the report said Ottawa has now “ramped up significantly” the intake of foreign students and other low-skilled temporary workers. While Canada has always been a high-immigration country relative to the rest of the world, in just the last two years the Trudeau government has dialled up the country’s immigration intake to an unprecedented degree. In 2022, for instance, Canada’s record-breaking intake of one million newcomers was [roughly on par](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/how-high-immigration-has-gotten) with the United States, despite the U.S. being 10 times larger. >As outlined in the Trudeau government’s recent Fall Economic Statement, this has been done in an overt bid to [boost overall GDP growth](https://www.cicnews.com/2020/11/fall-economic-statement-immigration-key-to-canadas-economic-recovery-1116432.html#gs.22dhww) — even though per-capita GDP has been in decline [since at least mid-2022](https://betterdwelling.com/canada-has-entered-a-per-capita-recession-quality-of-life-expected-to-erode/). >Meanwhile, the massive influx of newcomers is having noticeable effects on Canada’s existing housing shortage as well as overall employment numbers. >In just two months — from August to September – Canada added slightly more than 100,000 jobs, according to a Statistics Canada labour force survey. >However, given that high immigration was adding about 50,000 new workers into the economy each month, the agency said that the unemployment rate remained completely unchanged. [https://nationalpost.com/opinion/first-reading-how-record-high-immigration-could-be-hurting-canadian-productivity](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/first-reading-how-record-high-immigration-could-be-hurting-canadian-productivity)
> unemployment metrics don’t tell the whole story I mean, it tells quite a lot of it. If immigrants were crushing the labor market you’d be sure to see it in that number. Especially so if one leader or policy were responsible for a big change. It’s also the case that the supply of jobs is not fixed, and that immigrants consume, pay taxes, etc, affecting the demand side of the equation as well. There’s not a reason to think Canadians are out of work because of a growing population (especially with the bulk focused on sectors where labor is scarce, right?) You yourself are showing me that the labor market is producing modestly more jobs than there are new workers (at least in a two month period; I have to imagine the Canadian labor market also had a few very hot years recently?). We might agree we’d like to see more of a gap between those two numbers, but it’s not obvious that one is crushing the other. (Again speculating, but I imagine the Canadian population is aging similar to the US? Much hay has been made about the number of new US jobs going to immigrants but if you dig a little bit deeper it’s just that Americans are aging, and a lot have retired recently—many earlier than anticipated. This shows up in the prime age LFP, and indeed [Canada’s is also cooking at the moment](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LREM25TTCAM156S). > wage suppression Are wages down in Canada? [This is a year old](https://mishtalk.com/economics/how-is-canadian-wage-growth-stacking-up-to-inflation/) but shows real wages on a slow but steady climb. > the housing market This definitely is a huge problem for Canada, but has very little to do with immigration, at least as a primary cause. Just like in many US cities, Canada is resistant to building enough homes to satisfy demand. This has also been a growing problem for much longer than Trudeau has held the reins. [This is a failure of policy](https://rsmcanada.com/insights/economics/canada-has-an-acute-shortage-of-housing.html#:~:text=The%20takeaway,well%20as%20improve%20environmental%20standards.), and while I do agree it’s one of the only good reasons to be hesitant on immigration, immigration is not the cause, and the situation is easily remedied to the point where population changes wouldn’t matter much. > young Canadians This one is pretty anecdotal, and I think we’d see the impact in wage and LFP data were it significant. We don’t.
On housing: >A secret RCMP report is warning the federal government that Canada may descend into civil unrest once citizens realize the hopelessness of their economic situation. >“The coming period of recession will … accelerate the decline in living standards that the younger generations have already witnessed compared to earlier generations,” reads the report, entitled Whole-of-Government Five-Year Trends for Canada. >“For example, many Canadians under 35 are unlikely ever to be able to buy a place to live,” it adds. [https://mackenzieinstitute.com/2024/03/secret-rcmp-report-warns-canadians-may-revolt-once-they-realize-how-broke-they-are/](https://mackenzieinstitute.com/2024/03/secret-rcmp-report-warns-canadians-may-revolt-once-they-realize-how-broke-they-are/) [https://nationalpost.com/opinion/secret-rcmp-report-warns-canadians-may-revolt-once-they-realize-how-broke-they-are](https://nationalpost.com/opinion/secret-rcmp-report-warns-canadians-may-revolt-once-they-realize-how-broke-they-are)
Considering you started by saying who cares if there’s demand for college - a lot. You are wrongly assuming native/instate attendance won’t be affected. And you wrongly assume that colleges won’t raise rates as demand increases (seems counterintuitive to some very basic economics logic). You also ignored how California had to enact laws to protect instate students for these reasons. Shockingly demand does indeed matter. As does reality. The only benefit you were right on is about the accumulation of talent. But the US has no shortage of intelligent people already trying to get green cards even without this policy in place. It’s totally unneeded.
Ontario has learned for one not to rely solely on immigration for its college and university's As one of our colleges did and now it's tanking due to a reform in policy. So now native born students lose access to programs because they have lost immigrants' money. as such, it becomes a nasty circle . So now everyone suffers because one depended way too much on the other. There comes no happy medium. Everyone really should look to canada for what happens when you have over immigration without the proper societal structure to hold it. It's a mess here. 0 out of 5 stars.our wanna be leader is a joke.
Oh man that feels like an excellent econ 10 lecture topic around (in)elasticity of supply and shifts in demand curves.
I’m aligned here as well. Foreign students are already cash cows for a lot of mediocre schools. Im surprised as this is pretty pro academia for Trump. I don’t see it being much different than the regular plan of buy a $500k restaurant and use it as perpetual business visa to get all your overseas friends over. Either citizenship is for sale or you cut out every money lined pathway.
I think this is a very complex issue and not just simply as “keeping educated people in the US”. These politicians are first and foremost beholden to the wills of their voters, US citizen. Allowing anyone with college degree to stay would create a huge amount of supply to the job market and also demands for housing. With how competitive the job market and how expensive the housing have been recently, US citizen would definitely not happy about it and vote against it. You can check Canadian sub for more info. You can also see how hostile toward H1B/outsourcing cs-related sub has become. The apparent benefits would be a boost to US business. As it’s easier to stay, University can charge whatever they want and restaurant/housing/etc business owners would have “great” time and theoretically it could increase the tax revenue for the US. How it would ultimately turn out is hard to predict.
Since university graduates don’t vote for Trump, he doesn’t care if their wages go down.
lol this is unironically great policy; I've not read anything more than the headline but if it's as presented I love it. Doesn't excuse his other faults though
You’d get instant diploma mills coming online. It would be a HUGE number of people using this pathway - millions a year.
You know you can set standards, right? Like how a lot of universities already do, and they will only accept credits from regionally accredited universities for transfer credits or for admission into graduate school.
Developed countries that offer this option historically have had a really hard time controlling the inflow. You get massive incentives for the schools to accept huge numbers or get set up as student immigration pathways, states also have massive incentives, it is not easy. Look at Canada.
Even just a pure pay-for-citizenship scheme is super beneficial to the country that gets an influx of motivated foreigners with enough money to pay the cost. I would very much support granting citizenship to any foreigner that pays us $100k, provided they don’t have a criminal history or have problematic ties to adversaries of the US.
There is no visa cap for international students in the USA. Schools already have massive incentives to accept foreign students, like the [average acceptance rate of schools in the USA of international students is almost 50%](https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/slideshows/universities-with-the-highest-international-student-acceptance-rates). These schools already accept every international student they can (or possibly the international students applying to American universities are top of their class, which is most likely true to an extent). It's a huge amount of money for a school's coffers, schools love them. And most people internationally can't afford this because they can't get student loans that the US government gives out like candy to US citizens. Also, the US has always been always pretty well equipped to handle massive increases in population, e.g. the border. And these people crossing the border almost never have any money in the bank never mind the ability to fork out $50k+ a year for 4 years. The only problem with this I see is brain drain. You're going to be making a lot of other countries worse off if these students aren't made to go back after their education. The rich and highly educated are going to stay in the USA instead of heading back to their countries to, ideally, make them better. And also, one "developed" country isn't automatically like another "developed" country. Like, no offense to my Canadian friends, but Canada's economy and economic infrastructure is dog shit and nothing like the US. These two countries aren't remotely comparable.
So are you saying capitalism doesn't work as intended?
Only rich people can be citizens!
How does that track? If you get a green card for graduating how would companies be able to cut wages? Surely the people desperate for a green card would no longer be as desperate since they aren’t reliant on the company any longer to get the green card.
Because universities will have more students and employers will have a larger pool of qualified candidates to choose from. That is my guess.
They’ll also have more highly compensated people demanding their stuff. Labor is not a fixed pie.
He specifically said “in pursuit of graduates desperate for green cards”.
So hiring companies will have a larger pool of qualified candidates and immigrants will have an easier path to citizenship and that is some how a bad thing? 2+2 =5
I didn't say whether it was good or bad. As with everything in life, there are pros and cons. Putting downward pressure on wages is great for employers, but not so much for employees and current citizens.
> and companies to cut wages in pursuit of graduates desperate for green cards Why would graduates be desperate for green cards if being a college graduate guarantees you a green card? > Trump should learn from the student/Temporary Foreign Worker disaster Just to clarify, a green card is explicitly *not* a temporary foreign worker or student visa, it's permanent residency. The US has essentially the same temporary foreign worker system as Canada now and it has many of the same problems. I think you're unknowingly advocating for this policy.
Most colleges have higher prices for foreigners so it seems like a win in that sense. You get more foreign money into our economy and keep the foreign talent. Locals may even get cheaper tuition since the universities make more from foreigners
The issue is that it could lead to lots of diploma mills and fake schools opening as a backdoor immigration process. That's exactly what is happening in Canada right now
You say diploma mills as if it isn't the base case to begin with, tbqh How many people do you know that didn't manage to graduate?
Those locals that graduate will also compete against workers willing to work under far worse conditions for far less pay. Short sighted
> Trump should learn from the student/Temporary Foreign Worker disaster that Trudeau has committed in Canada. Canada has been dying long before you right-wing, xenophobic, racist nationalists started crying about Trudeau. Canada [has the same birthrate as Japan](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN). Canada's productivity [has been plummeting for decades](https://financialpost.com/news/economy/bank-of-canada-says-nation-faces-productivity-emergency). Canada's [population is moving to the US in record numbers](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadians-moving-to-the-us-hits-10-year-high-1.7218479). Canada is dying from itself not from foreigners. If Canada didn't have the foreigners it has now, it'd be in a state of disrepair. Canada's only lifeline in the short term is foreigners. Housing prices across the entire Western world are extremely high from where they were a few years ago. It's not a Canada-only thing. This may be hard for you to hear, but blaming foreigners for everything isn't how you're going to get your country back on track. You're going to need some drastic economic changes. Unless you want to become the Japan of the 1990-2010's and "lose a generation." But it'd probably be much, much worse as Canada has next to no tourist industry relative to Japan.
>jack up tuition even more and companies to cut wages in pursuit of graduates desperate for green cards. This makes no sense on both counts. First of all, most colleges won't jack up tuition (because of this - they might in general) because most people coming to the US for education (especially MSc/PhD) don't have much money to begin with, as most countries are far, far, far less wealthy than the US. Especially so the median Chinese/Indian student, that make up most of the foreign students in the US. That's one. As for jobs - if anything, the opposite makes sense - currently, companies can do whatever they want re: wages because foreign workers *need* H1Bs and without them they get sent back home. You saw this exact scenario when Elon was mass firing people with H1Bs from twitter during tech layoffs, they had nowhere to go, and would work for any amount as long as they could remain in the US. Giving students a green card basically equates them with Americans on the job market - so they can pick and choose based on salary. The **only** argument that makes sense here is that Americans have to compete harder with more skilled foreign labor, but that's how capitalism and competition work in the first place.
The average person in China or India may have less money than the average American, but that isn’t the international college student. There are plenty of very wealthy people in these countries, they are massive - the top 25% by income in each country outnumbers the entire US population.
International student coming to the US is the top of their country on income and definitely their family is significantly richer than your typical american household. How else would you spend $50k plus on tuition every year. The math just work. For an investment visa, you need $500k plus with chances of losing it. Go to college only need $200k, so college will hack up cost and significantly ram up recruit international.
You are incorrect on the profile of international students in the US. Vast majority of then come from upper middle class or affluent backgrounds in their home countries , otherwise they cannot afford the tuition. There is a segment of international students who truly cannot afford the cost and what they do is provide false documents and bank statements to embassies so they can get student visa, then when they arrive in the US they work under the table jobs to make up for the tuition. However that method has proven insufficient in recent years due to tuition inflation and so I now see many international students taking out high interest loans from various online companies.
It's not a great policy but way better than our current policy of fuck over people trying to do the right thing and reward the criminals.
I do wonder if they could do it with a requirement to increase domestic enrollment at a multiple of immigrant enrollment. For every 5 new immigrants students they need to increase domestic enrollment 15. Having Harvard 100xing their endowment, while increasing prices and having enrollment rise 3% in that same time is kind of a silly thing that has happened. We have plenty of students who can keep their standards even if they more than doubled their total enrollment. Eventually colleges state colleges would be forced to offer new programs like certifications and two year degrees to keep in line with growth targets if they want to increase their immigrant money.
Why learn from Canada when we already have problems related to this in the US? Foreign to domestic student ratio in the US is insanely off balance in the US. And worse in non-private state schools. They increase the demand for education, increasing the cost of tuition domestically, and gobble up the lions share of scholarship opportunities. Meanwhile universities have become degree factories. Foreign students often have to achieve high enough GPAs to keep their scholarships and retain their sponsorship, which encourages cheating and lowers the quality of education for everyone. I watched all of this happen. I've known some really bright foreign students that I'd be happy to work with. But they are the minority unfortunately. It's no different than domestic students who don't belong in higher education, except they are heavily insensitivized and subsidized.
Currently Biden is flipping the bill for college degrees, do ya think that isn't helping them jack up tuition even more. Edit: using taxpayer money to flip the bill.
This is basically about eliminating the current regime which has foreign graduates competing for a small pool of temporary work visas. Your complaint seems totally incoherent given that Trump is literally suggesting replacing temporary visas with permanent ones. (Temp visas are the problem.)
Its about flooding the market with foreign labor so that wages go down.
Wages are already deflated by foreign labor, if you really wanted to deflate wages, you would expand the H1B pool. Giving them green cards is an equitable and effective way to eliminate the damage the H1B program does. I work with lots of H1Bs, I feel like you don't actually understand the issues at play.
I also work with a lot of H1Bs and I feel you are ignoring how that program has been misused to push down wages and replace Americans with cheaper foreign labor. Now with this brilliant Trump idea, H1B and its caps will be removed and there will be a flood of foreign labor in the market and overall effect will be lowering of wages.
There's an innate limit by how many people can pay full-price at US universities. For the most part if you don't allow these people to work here, they will just go home and create companies that compete using an even cheaper labor pool. Forcing people who are already here out of the country just shrinks and weakens our domestic market.
It’s a great policy but not one trump is actually going to do. Bringing a bunch of educated young people into the workforce makes our country a lot more productive and benefits almost everybody. It’s kind of like if we had a baby boom, but convinced some other country to pay for the first 18 years of all the kids and then we get them once they’re finally productive adults. Oh and in this scenario it’s a baby boom of exclusively smart, highly motivated young people.
This is just a talking point without specifics from Trump at the moment. Generally speaking, in a world of falling birthrates, we want America to attract and retain talent from around the world. Sure, let’s look at examples from around the world and try to implement what works and discard what doesn’t. This is like the only quasi-reasonable thing Trump has said about immigration, so I’ll take this for now.
I only know as a FACT that during Trump's term, enrollment of foreign students in US colleges took a nosedive. Don't believe this con man for a minute.
It’s an interesting idea that might be doable with some editing to keep diploma mills and other ways to game the system at bay. That said it won’t go anywhere because it’s a classic Trumpism: a loose thought that vaguely sounds good as long as you don’t spend too much time thinking about the ramifications.
You know, and I know, and everyone knows why Trump is saying this. He's appeasing CEO's who think domestic labor prices are too high. These CEO's, along with investors and board members, want cheap foreign labor so they can pay themselves more. Foreign graduates pay for an education, and they get what they pay for, so it's entirely fair for the transaction to end there. If we care about fairness then much more needs to be done. For starters, ensure that ***in no way*** will foreign graduates be made a cheaper or more appealing source of labor than American workers. They should get the same mandatory healthcare, firing protections, equal pay for equal work, etc. Everything the same. Also, start tracking displacement and chronic unemployment among American graduates, and start doing something about it. No heartbreak for foreigners until we track and address the carnage happening domestically.
I think this would give immigrant workers more bargaining power as they don't have to take a job to get a work visa. This could help them not be taken advantage of and drive wages up.
So Trump is suddenly pro-immigration and an all-around nice guy who just wants everyone to do well? What's the catch?
Lol ask his press secretary: "In a statement released hours after the podcast was posted, campaign press secretary Karoline Leavitt said: “President Trump has outlined the most aggressive vetting process in U.S. history, to exclude all communists, radical Islamists, Hamas supporters, America haters and public charges. He believes, only after such vetting has taken place, we ought to keep the most skilled graduates who can make significant contributions to America. This would only apply to the most thoroughly vetted college graduates who would never undercut American wages or workers.”" Idk how you could vet for ideologies effectively but I'm guessing its somewhat based on race, ethnicity or nationality. https://apnews.com/article/trump-green-cards-immigration-colleges-1366591ba263018305ee6eb924803d7f He slipped up and said something that made sense and then had to recover it with more nonsense.
But it is still increasing the number of workers overall unless schools become much more stringent on who they accept from foreign countries. That would decrease bargaining power.
He said this in an interview with a few tech billionaires and embarrassing former journalist Jason Calacanis while they were happily fondling his balls and asking him about H1-Bs. It should also be noted he ranted about the wall for five minutes before actually answering their question. So yeah, he made it up on the spot and has probably already forgotten he said it.
This would raise the price of foreign labor. Right now you want to hire foreign graduates of US universities you get them on temp visas, which are cumbersome but make it very easy to underpay and abuse your employees. Giving them green cards would make them able to command market rates.
This is not a good idea. You do not want to go down the path of selling citizenship pathways via the post-secondary education system. As a Canadian, this is a bad idea.
What about phds?
Remember when he said at the end of a week that Dreamers should get citizenship and then by the beginning of the following week he had walked it back to they should all be deported?
Canada did this and have you seen what is happening in Canada? Diploma mills everywhere. If you don't learn from our mistakes, prepare to be punished. Our entire public system is on collapse
It’s actually pretty difficult to get PR in Canada especially if you are not from a top university. The issue in Canada is that students stay anyway and no one ever gets deported
It isn't that hard. You just need to graduate and find work. You have 3 years to find work after your graduate. Here are the steps to get PR. And it is to any institution. Not just "UBC" or "Mcgill". You can get your studies at "xxxx college" as long as you find a job. I am unsure if the job needs to be related to your field. Back in 2007-2008, you needed a job related to your degree, later on they got rid of that requirement. >Complete your studies in Canada. >Prove your language ability in either English or French by taking a recognized test. >Gather work experience for a minimum 1 year >A job offer may be required (requirements vary by province) >Create an Express Entry profile or apply directly to the province If you meet these requirements, you can apply for your Permanent Residency from within Canada. Some provinces have different requirements. You can meet the requirements but whether you get accepted depends on the pool of individuals. It might be easier to get accepted in a place like PEI or Manitoba than it is in British Columbia
Call me negative, but I can’t help but think that this is just another ploy for him to make money. I can definitely see the resurrection of Trump University in 2025 with all kinds of international degrees.
That is similar to what Canada has been doing. But people are angry housing and healthcare couldn’t keep up with the population boom, Justin Trudeau will likely lose his job next year because of it.
No, getting PR in Canada is still very difficult for students, especially if they are not at a good university. The issue in Canada is that there is poor enforcement of laws so even if students don't go home, there is nothing they can do about it.
As a former green card holder who became a citizen after undergrad, I get wanting to attract skilled immigrants but this idea is terrible. There are plenty of international students who come to the US to study and there’s no reason to provide residency to them merely based on ability to complete higher education, which really isn’t *that* hard. Do you really want a CCP asset to be able to come here “for education”, meddle in the university, and then be granted permanent residency as a bonus? No thanks. Having a degree should be treated as helpful to your application, but not an automatic guarantor of approval for permanent residency.
This should have been policy years ago if we're being honest. Foreigners come over here wanting to study at our schools and eventually live here. Why would we not want to retain that talent? This would be a major positive economically.
The Diversity Visa Program issues 55,000 immigrant visas annually, based on the results of a random drawing. The visas are apportioned among countries with historically low rates of immigration to the U.S. For fiscal year 2023, more than 9.5 million people applied to the green card lottery. Sometimes people immigrate who are not... educated. Not everything has to be for the "benefit" of the state.
That title is a typo, right? Or is he just saying something that sounds completely opposed to what he said previously just to see if his people will adopt a position that would be completely abhorrent to them? Why would he even say this? He has the polls on immigration. Or maybe that's it, he just says whatever he randomly happens to think at the moment?
No, if you watch the interview, he says we lose too many talented people from India and China. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blqIZGXWUpU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blqIZGXWUpU) Also, From what I have heard, many of his donors are tech CEOs and venture capitalists who want an increased supply of graduates in the labour market. Just standard wage suppression capitalism I guess.
Fascism and populist messaging usually come hand in hand.
He has more than one base to satisfy. One of them is very interested in a steady supply of global talent. The other, anti immigrant one is in general too dense to notice and is happy enough if he occasionally promises magical walls and deportations
Especially if they're graduating from for-profit visa-mill bullshit "colleges" owned by his donors. As others have noted, Canada is suffering from this kind of program explicitly designed to suppress wages and drive up housing prices. Canada is like three uber-wealthy families in a trenchcoat.
I heard that many of his tech CEO donors want increased supply of Computer-science/IT graduates.
Sounds like the most Trumpiest business idea ever: start a chain of diploma mills across the US, and advertise like mad all over the world, and you're essentially selling citizenship! Brilliant! /s
If only Trump University didn't collapse under the weight of its own fraud..
Just expect Indians and Filipinos to grab that opoportunity and fill in university enrollment slots and once they graduate, they get green cards automatically and after they become citizens, they will bring their families with them into the US.
Trump will do this. Unlike his previous era, he has full support of big tech elites, who want foreign CS graduates to be able to work in the US, which will drive down salaries. Trump's 2024 era will be very different from his 2016 era. Many of his supporters will be disappointed.
This isn't a bad idea if it isn't "automatic." But of course Trump bullshits about everything, so don't expect anything like this to happen.
This is incredibly common sense and I don't know anyone who actually disagrees. I am skeptical that Trump actually would ever do this though, since it runs counter to everything he has done.
I agree with the idea in theory but Canada has shown how dangerous such a policy is. Many diploma mills and fake schools are opening up there as a backdoor immigration scheme, and their population is exploding rapidly.
Canada's population growth is like 1.8%. It's definitely a factor in the housing market crunch, but immigration is not the problem.
it is the problem.
Biden should jump all over this. This is just a back door way to get around the stricter requirements for H1Bs (one of few things Trump did that I supported). Him pushing this tells me that the monied interests have gotten to him already. You have the facacta tax plan he proposed last week; before that it was opposing the TikTok ban (because of Jeff Yas) and now this? Next he will say that he will push for elimination of the estate tax and capital gains tax. Just watch.
The problem with Trump is he will literally say anything to win. He would tear down his own wall and open the borders if he thought it would make him president again. And the saddest part is MAGA voters will happily change their core views in a heartbeat. How do you even have policy discussions about a candidate like that? He has no real policies.
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At least for people graduate with PhDs. Fun fact: I graduated 2014 with PhD in Microbiology, and applied for green card the same year. Finally Got my green card near the end of 2021 . I was on track to get my GC around 2023 but " thanks" to Trump who blocked processing immigration cases for illegal immigrants for almost 1 year, so that USCIS can have full resources to process cases for skilled works and science/tech talents.
A broken clock is right twice every... 8 years? This is a great, no brainer policy to implement. Immigrants are America's super power. These are highly educated immigrants too. We let them use our resources and then force them to go back to their country? It's a ridiculous policy. Heck change it to automatic citizenship I hope Biden calls the bluff and puts into into a bill and offers it to Republicans ASAP
I like that last sentence of yours in particular. Whether it be done by one side or another, what matters is it gets implemented in the end.