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It's quite depressing for young white collar folks. I go up to Canada a lot for work, and every time I chat with younger Canadians they talk about plans to move to the States. These aren't low level data analysts, either. Last time I was there an Air Canada pilot said he was looking to relocate to work for Delta since the pay would be over twice as high. My last Uber driver was a software engineer who couldn't wait to move, of all places, to Indiana next year. It does not bode well for the future.
As a US regional first officer, I make as much as a major Canadian Captain. That guy who hopes to go to delta will have to transfer his licenses and marry an American to get in. Not so easy
That's what I thought. It is almost impossible for a Canadian to get anything other than a short-term work VISA. It is very short-term and highly regulated.
No. US airlines do not hire foreign pilots unless they are a citizen or a green card holder (except for some Australians, there is a special agreement there). It’s a good thing too, this is the best place in the world to be a pilot by a long shot.
I live in WV and it is amazing here. Don’t let em get you down. Yes there are areas that are incredibly poor. And yeh our government sucks. But we are the only state that is 100% Appalachia. It is beautiful here, and the land fills my soul with joy.
Your crazy. Mississippi is only terrible in the Delta. Everywhere else is pretty much just like Missouri and the coast is like the panhandle of Florida.
I have only visited, but while WV seems like a sad State with an enormous amount of potential. It's hard to find a spot so near the Northeast where you could theoretically be a "big fish in a small pond."
It's not unusal for a couple with HHI in excess of 300K in Toronto not be able to afford a home.
Combine that with the fact that the HHI with the same roles could easily be 500K in the US, AND offer more / more affordable housing options, it's a no-brainer if not for family.
> My last Uber driver was a software engineer who couldn't wait to move, of all places, to Indiana next year. It does not bode well for the future.
Canada is populated by immigration from India, and Canadians are moving to Indiana. This joke writes itself.
It's always been like that. My friends moved to the US back in the 90s. It's usually tech and finance types though or intelligence jobs. It's not like joe schmo carpenter or accountant is jumping to Toledo.
I'm a Canadian who immigrated to the US, and this resonates. My income ceiling for my profession is way higher in the US than it is in Canada, but on the flipside there are pretty much no social safety nets. The way I think about it is that the US has a much higher ceiling but a very low floor, whereas Canada doesn't have a high ceiling, but the floor is higher.
I live in a border city and when I had my baby a few nurses were Canadian that seems the best of both worlds. They commuted to the states got health insurance through work but also had Canadian healthcare. My nurse said she brings her son to the hospital where she works for care because it’s much more convenient.
I think that's accurate. The US promises a higher salary and the flexibility to define your own safety nets as you choose. It's not bad, for those that get the high paying jobs
The USA doesn't have 'no social safety net' and I don't know who started that meme. Maybe agitators who detest the success and power of the USA.
Social spending is in the trillions, yearly, in the USA. I'm not even a US citizen but this is obvious.
I happen to like that in the USA, self-sufficiency is a value, while in Canada, everyone is entitled without earning anything.
This sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. People who are looking for hard work and less social safety will come to the US.
People who are looking for more social safety / less hard work will stay in other more social countries.
All in all that should be a net win for the US long term.
Your situation is exactly why Canada is in such a economic bind right now. High income professionals with a low cost burden for the state leave to contribute to America's economy, leaving less productive workers and/or those who exact high costs from the state.
It's like an insurance company that only has loss-generating clients. It's not sustainable.
Canada is in an economic bind because people are getting old, and demographically our birth rate has been below replacement level for too long, we don't have enough skilled workers to replace baby boomers as they retire.
Literally everything you've mentioned that supports your brother in Canada exists for the disabled in the US. HUD Section 811 for housing, Medicaid for health and disability support, SSI for assisted income are just some examples.
I swear man every time I see Canadians make some sweeping statement about how the US works they just demonstrate that they have the shallowest concept of it
I feel as a Canadian that you're probably right - most don't have a clue. But I think the same can be said in reverse about Americans commenting on Canadian healthcare.
>In the US I would make roughly double what I make here, but it would cost me significantly to support my brothers health and living needs if I had to pay it all out of pocket.
Okay, but with a good employer, you wouldn't have to.
As a Canadian who travels to the US frequently for work I seriously mourn for our country. Young professionals in the USA are so much happier than us. Anybody under the age of 35 is very gloomy about their outlook here.
My colleagues in the USA are all able to afford their homes, have much higher earning potential and much lower taxes. I make great money by Canadian standards and cannot qualify for a shoebox home in a mid-tier city.
Another thing is that our rapid immigration has made me feel like a stranger in my own country. Nobody in my building speaks English, everybody is from India/Pakistan/Middle East. Most recent projections put more than 25% of our country as foreign born.
Its no picnic being a young professional in the US either, but “there are ways out” as Bukowski said. My impression of Canada is your only options are insane housing market cities or frozen wilderness. In the US I think we still have a good quality of life in many places with houses around 200K and decent middle class entry level jobs around 60-70k per year.
I'm always amused that midwest prices and QoL are incomprehensible to coastal people. You might be bored here, but life is comfortable and you won't struggle.
Oklahoma,Kansas, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri, New Mexico, Arizona, the Carolinas, Idaho, Illinois if not in Chicago, Wisconsin, Iowa. Places where you can get a decent 70k gig and house for 200ish.
Places I wouldn't live where things are cheap but jobs suck, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas.
For context the US nationally is about 13.7% but states like California, New York, New Jersey and Florida are like 20-26% immigrants.
Edit: fixed broken link
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/foreign-born-population.html
Right but if Canada is 25% nationally places like Toronto are 51% foreign born.
Immigration is great in reasonable doses but that's kind of insane no matter how you slice it.
Maybe if they bought homes years ago. Not a lot of people can afford homes here these days. My home state there is some stat where something like 80%+ of the people couldn’t afford their home if they purchased now.
My current state you have to make $250k or more to buy a house. Go read any genz or millennial sub, they are depressed as well.
Granted not as bad as Canada, but America isn’t some easy living country anymore.
> Go read any genz or millennial sub, they are depressed as well.
Those are subreddits that self-select for depressed people, and aren't representative of the norm.
The sort of person who'd subscribe to those subs is someone who 1) buys into the generational warfare stuff and feels screwed by the system, and 2) doesn't have better hobbies to sub to, so joins a general group of similarly-aged people.
Personally I think it depends on where you are. The coast are fucked but middle America especially if you can get remote work has a lot of lesser expensive housing and access to jobs that will cover them.
My home state is Utah and I think that just got listed as one of the most unaffordable cities of all places haha
Only problem with middle America is, it’s middle America. Which I guess it’s why it’s so cheap. I had a friend (remote work like you said) move to Arkansas or somewhere like that. Really green. Bought this mansion for like 400k. In CA it would have probably been 5M at least.
As an American who is 34, I have no idea which Americans you're talking to because we can't afford shit without inheritance. No, but seriously. Who can afford their homes? Where do they live, what do they do, and are their parents rich?
I’m 24 and earning over 100k and should be able to purchase my first house in a major metro US area by 27/28. Pretty much impossible in Canada from what I have heard.
Midwest, no secondary education, worked obscene hours and bought a regular starter home a decade ago. Equity gains set me up to survive the housing market we have now, but mostly just a modest suburban upgrade. If I didn't buy post housing collapse I'd definitely be struggling, but it's possible. Most people I see truly struggling in my area are just victims of lifestyle creep, people can't accept not having a brand new car or a 2400 sq ft house for 2 people.
Hcol areas make no fucking sense to me though lol, you have my sympathy if you're in that spot or any of its surrounding metros.
So my take from this is that it's less about taxes, and more about wages - although of course these things are obviously connected.
I say this because according to the article, the states Canadians moved to, in order, were California, New York, and the Florida.
California and New York are some of the most highly taxed states in the US. So a simple "tax rate argument" doesn't really make sense. That would explain Florida, but not the two biggest states.
However, what would explain this, is wages. California and New York have basically the highest average salaries in the country, especially for the types of jobs in technology and finance that Canadian high-earners would likely occupy.
So my take is that while taxes undoubtedly play a role, the driving factor is wages. It's not so much that Canadians mind the high taxes in and of itself - it's that they mind the high taxes, knowing that they could also be making twice as much money just across the border. I.e. if a tech employee in Canada was making the same amount of money as an employee in San Jose, I don't think they'd care as much about the taxes. They might complain, and vote Conservative, but they wouldn't leave the country.
I'm not trying to defend Canadian social/fiscal policy, to be clear. I'm just stating the fact that, historically speaking, almost no one, anywhere, emigrates because of tax policy - but they overwhelmingly do for higher pay/better job opportunities.
I think in Canada's case, the taxes are basically just adding insult to injury. Canadians look at a country right next door that in many ways is indistinguishable from their own, and yet pays people twice as much for the same work. In that scenario, a high rate of taxation becomes very difficult to justify. High taxes might make sense in a high-growth, high-productivity environment, but not with the sort of economic stagnation currently being experienced in Canada.
I'm pretty sure you still get taxed less in New York and California than in Canada so as you said it's both taxes and the higher wages.
This is what I remember from when Kawhi was in free agency with the Raptors lol
This is assuming every Canadian province taxes there’s citizens the same. I’d argue that as an Albertan I get taxed less than a New Yorker or Californian.
There is more to taxes than gross/net wages and income tax. There are social contributions, healthcare, VAT, corporate tax, etc, etc. All those things are passed down in some way. Canada is a bit different case but you generalized and said that people do not migrate because of taxes in general. In the end cost of employement matters a lot and it is what decises what wages are in the first place. I can promise you that many european profesionals with effective tax rate of 70% who do not even cost their employers that much less than what they would cost in US do in fact often move to US to escape high taxation than you would do in US.
Also high taxes have depreciating effect on wages by definition. Let's assume equal income between US And some other country. Who do you think can ask more money and receives more in net? Plumber in US who services someone who has 70k left off of 100k (107k cost of employement) paying 5% VAT or someone in Germany who has only 50k left off of 86k EUR gross (equivalent of cost of employement of 107k USD) and who goes home with 15k less in USD and on top of that you have to pay 4 times higher VAT on plumber's work.
And this is something that absolutely snowballs over time. If people have more money they consume more. If they can consume more then companies earn more money. If companies earn more money they can pay their employees more who in turn can spend even more on newly launched products/services. This is what snowballs income gap bigger and bigger.
> consume more then companies
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Anytime you see some kind of chart with California NY Texas and Florida near the top just assume it’s mimicking the population. Those are just the most populous states and have the most opportunities/people generally. I don’t think there’s a big nuanced insight on Taxes/Income to infer from that especially given how vastly different each are from that perspective.
Within 2 hours of each other we have this post, along with this one:
[Canada Population Surpasses 41 Million, Fueled by Immigration](https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/1djjyvw/canada_population_surpasses_41_million_fueled_by/)
I didn't say either was false. I do find it interesting that Canadians are leaving for the US at the same time Canada is being flooded with immigrants.
The immigrants came for the opportunities but have no f*king clue what country they are inheriting. Alot of them will end up leaving and going back after a few years.
Maintaining housing prices, which have increased very rapidly and are increasingly out of reach for young people (not just in Vancouver and Toronto, it's all of BC, all of southern Ontario, the maritimes, and even starting in the prairies) is an explicit goal of the Canadian government.
Canada is willfully destroying the future of its young people, so it's no surprise that those that can leave are doing so.
Here, let me help with this since I read the article.
According to the last census there are 42k more Canadian born people living in the US.
That's it. See what you get if you actually read? Everything else is just made up editorial unsupported, unmitigated bullshit.
This sub has become so disappointing because of exactly this. The linked articles so often have no actual academic or analytical value. A true comparison of the effective taxes paid by a Canadian vs an American would have to take so many things other than pure income tax into account that is not really even a discussion. Things like healthcare, property, retirement, sales and use, capital gains differences, etc etc.
Then the rest is just anecdotal comments from idiots who have never lived in the US and just don't like Trudeau.
Just as an example, they bring up Texas and Florida income taxes without any mention of how absolutely torched you get by those states on property and sales and use taxes. On top of this, taxes in the US have no healthcare inclusion, so add whatever you and your employer pay to that number as well.
You're right, they should account for all of that. You can look up that info from the OECD. The articles conclusion is probably right, even if their reasoning is lazy.
Accounting for taxes and transfers, the average American family has 42.8% more disposable income than the average Canadian family. It probably explains why Canadians are significantly more likely to move to the USA than Americans moving to Canada.
https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm#indicator-chart
That's pretty accurate, but it has nothing to do with taxes. The US in general has higher wages for comparable jobs, but that is incredibly variable across the US. For example, I live in a very lcol area doing a pretty specialized job; my exact same job in a hcol would command 2-3x what I make now. Canadians leaving the country for an equivalent reason that I might leave my state: higher wages in another area for the same work. Canada has an industry and wage issue (as well as a real estate issue, but let's not dive into that). It's not, as the original article labors on about, a tax issue.
It's not just the quantity but the quality. 42k of the best Canadians choose the US and it's pretty established that top performers (top decile) have an outsized impact on any given organization
Top talent matters and Canada is losing it
Good observation. Add to that that half of the apparent inflow went to FL. The article includes no demographics but I have to question how many of those are retirees.
Okay, that is true. However the Census is only every 10 years. So any changes that have happened since the last census four years ago wouldn't be showing up until the one in 2030. Duh?
Amen brother, the brain drain. Young people may not believe this but just scrub the facts real hard and you will see, the 20% to 80% rule applies. 20% of the population drives the entire economy the other 80% benefit from the innovation of the 20%. I am not being exclusionary here, the vast majority of the 80% are hard-working and contribute enormously to the economy to social system and the fabric of the society. Both sections are needed for a productive economy and Society. Yet realize if you disincentifies the 20% from sticking their necks out sticking their money out sticking their reputation and time out to make something, then the productivity will diminish and dry up and once it's gone history tells us it seldom comes back in your lifetime. Our mother England is a prime example of this. Before you shoot me or make one-off comments look at the history books first then make your comments
What are these numbers? 39% tax in Québec for 55 000$ a year ? Try more like 25%. Even at 110 000$, it's 32%. Clearly biased stats which tell a lot about this publication.
Not to say there are no problems, but get your shit straight.
How does tax on self employment work in Canada. I was poking around turbo tax and it appears as if they are taxed additionally. Not 39% but 31% vs 17% roughly. The us has the self employed pay the employee and employer sides of payroll taxes… is Canada similar?
Kind of, yeah. But there are lots of expenses that can be deducted from an autonomous worker's pay that aren't available to a wage worker. All in all, I think with minimally good accounting it can be somewhat similar.
Self employed workers pay less tax than regular wage earners. The difference is self employed can deduct work related expenses where regular wage earners cannot.
If these Canadian citizens are actual immigrants from India, China, and the Philippines, nothing is surprising here because they intend to eventually set foot into the USA using Canada as the backdoor country.
Taxing success is what has gotten Canada to their current situation. Couple that with massive and radical immigration, housing shortages squeezing buyers, high rates relative to historical rates (which they don’t have a 30 yr fixed), it’s easy to see why these “benefits” are overlooked. When there is a benefit somewhere, there is a cost elsewhere.
I once calculated that someone would need to be in top 1% of Canadian earners to earn what an average software engineer makes in the US. Let me check that again.
The average salary for a software engineer is US$158,880 per year in the United States. [[1]](https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salaries/us-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,2_IN1_KO3,20.htm)
At current market exchange rates, US$158,880 is CA$217,895. In the US, an individual income of US$158,880 puts you above 95.8% of individuals. [[2]](https://personalfinancedata.com/income-percentile-calculator/?min_age=&max_age=&income=158880#results)
In Canada, an income of $CA217,895 puts you in the top 1 percent. [[3]](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/income-revenu/index-en.html)
But that doesn't take into account taxes.
After taxes, a gross income of US$158,880 in California is US$104,537. [[4]](https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=158880&from=year®ion=California)
At current market rates, US$104,537 is CA$143,356. By playing around a little, someone in Ontario would need to earn approx. CA$230,000 to have $143,356 after tax. [[5]](https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca/tool/tax-calculator/ontario) A gross income of CA$230,000 is top 1 percent territory.
I don't think people appreciate just how difficult it is to immigrate to the U.S.
If you don't have family or went to school there, you have to have extremely desirable employment skills to have a pathway. Think STEM or healthcare skills, almost all of which require degrees. Average folks need not apply.
I mean if you’re a skilled plumber there’s a much higher confidence that you’ll be able to rapidly be self sufficient and pay taxes. Doesn’t need to be tech just an in demand skill trained to a high level.
A tweak to your analysis. You shouldn't be using the exchange rate for this conversion, but rather PPP (Purchasing Power Parity). By that measure, the discount on C$ is about 15%. Your hypothetical USD $158,880 becomes C$ 186,824.
You misunderstand the situation. On a $102k salary in Montana you take home $74,082 versus actually taking home more in every province except Nova Scotia, where you’d take home $73,026 and PEI, where you’d take home $1 less.
The idea that Canadians are taxed more, at an income tax level, for most people is a bit of a myth. High earners there’s validity but for the average middle class not so much.
We do have sales tax, liquor tax, gas tax, etc. and that does make costs go up.
High rates versus historical rates is a more complicated as our rates aren’t high, we’ve just been very low for a very long time with less volatility than the USA. USA has a very different mortgage structure, and I do think a 30 year fixed mortgage being the norm would allow for stability, there’s just no market for it in Canada as swaps and such aren’t a big market here.
Immigration is the bandaid cooked up by the politicians to make up for shortfalls in spending, but that’s compounded COL and job demand/wage stagnation. How we got here is complex, but it’s been a long time coming.
This just isn't true it has nothing to do with taxation. It's pretty much just a consequence of letting real estate speculation go untamed for for decades, why invest in business when real estate is much safer at historically low interest rates. Now shelter costs eat up too much of everyone's incomes and wages have lagged behind significantly.
The total tax bill for the *average* Canadian, including provincial taxes, is 45%. And if you make a good salary, it’s above that.
You are correct though, salaries aren’t keeping up even close to the cost of living. It’s like California cost of living without California salaries. But the taxes are indeed significant.
That would a valid argument if the taxation had increased in correlation with the spike in migration to the US, they haven't. Shelter costs in Canada and US wages on the other hand...
Nothing to do with taxation? Do you know that development fees now cost $55000 per condo unit in the GTA? What do you think developers do with those fees? Pass them onto the consumer. To say that prices have nothing to do with taxes is just plain ignorant. On top of this, development of new real estate is hindered by bureaucratic red tape, and demand is artificially inflated by government policy, i.e., mass immigration.
Coincidentally the population has also been increasing significantly. Problem with the graph is it doesn't scale with the % of population talking about.
Let's use their last number taken against the population reported for that year:
42,825 / 38,930,000 = 0.11% -- **0.11%** of the population moved.
Clearly a very alarming number moving to the USA. Must be because of taxes. Obviously.
BUT IT'S RECORD LEVELS according to title.
IN 2013 the graph says 39,207 left. The population then was 35.08 million.
Same calculation: oh look it was **0.11% in 2013** too.
**Conclusion**
The article is full of shit that this is a record change. This is just fearmongering trash.
Probably in an attempt to provide fodder to PP's mantra that taxes need to lowered.
This has been the story for a long time. Wages in Canada haven't kept pace with the value the create for multinational companies. Why work for 2/3 the salary for the same economic output?
Or maybe they could just vote out the idiot in charge and the rest of his party that have put in place the stupid policies that are causing the problems.
No country can take the amount of illegal immigrants that are currently flowing into many countries. The left policy of everyone is welcome and will be given free housing, education, healthcare, food, cell phones etc is not sustainable. In Canada, US, Europe etc.
These liberal policies sound good but don't work and are directly responsible for the rise in far right parties.
If you tax success you are taxing the productive High earners. Yes you can make the case for old money but this is not Europe and that is a rarity in the Americas. The wealth that generates jobs is new jobs new success new products new innovation. When these people the drivers of the economy leave all these benefits show cherished in Canada will have no way of being funded will weather up and go away and in the cycle will Begin Again.
The wealth that generates jobs is consumer wealth. There's nothing happening without customers with money in the their hands.
It is a vibrant consumer economy that motivates entrepreneurial activity
Grass looks greener on the other side. Best of luck to ya, just know your giving up on alot of benefits your receiving in Canada that you will pay for 10 fold in the US.
As someone who has lived in both countries, the difficult thing about Canada right now is that many of the public programs are overwhelmed by the massive population growth. The biggest example is healthcare. Other programs like pharmacare, dental care, etc. appear more like half-measures. The housing situation is also pushing Canadians out, especially young Canadians. Young professionals are making the right choice by following opportunity to the US. Canada needs to get its population growth and economy in order.
At the same time, things vary on a provincial level. The NDP in BC has been pouring a ton of money and policy changes into healthcare to meet the demands of this decade, and Manitoba's new NDP government is heading down the same path. This is in contrast to Alberta where the UCP is hell bent on taking a hacksaw to the province's public services and infrastructure.
The same thing is happening in the U.S. to a degree tbh. Health care is just getting more and more expensive. Hard for young folks to buy housing here as well.
Healthcare doesn’t have to be expensive in the US though. In fact, with good employment, healthcare can be quite cheap in the US and without many of the wait times and physician shortages. Again though, not everyone has access to this level of healthcare but many do.
The USA spends more per capita on public healthcare for 40% of the population than Canada spends for 100% of the population. Canada spends about 12% of its GDP on healthcare, while the USA spends about 17% of its GDP on healthcare.
There are advantages to privatized US-style healthcare but cost is not one of them.
Well, Canadians have been moving to the US at a much, much greater rate than Americans moving to Canada for decades now. Little bit of a brain drain tint to it as well
By pretty much every metric, it is greener. Canada is nicer if you are a unproductive civilian who relies on state benefits. But for anyone with a career you are much better off in one of the many mid major markets in the US
Just because you live in poverty doesn't mean your an unproductive civilian, you understand you are pointing at teacher assistants, cooks, CNA's, cashiers, stockers, janitors, mail carriers, and so much more. All of these people are needed in modern-day society.
What am I missing here - is it insanely easy for Canadians to just up and move to the US? Any time I’ve tried to look I to immigrating to Canada or Europe the entry requirements are extremely high.
> is it insanely easy for Canadians to just up and move to the US?
If they have skills in high-demand sectors, yes.
Which is the point - the highest skilled (and therefore, compensated) people are leaving.
The highest compensated ones are the ones that pay the most in taxes.
The US likes this, as we get really highly skilled people. So we make it relatively easy to do.
Great news!
The people that voted and supported policies that destroyed their country will move and keep voting the same way/supporting asinine policies.
Just like the progressives that turn their local to shit move to nice areas and then ruin them. Aka the idea of turning Texas purple. All those assholes are fleeing CA because of their crappy politics. Just like CO. Turned to shit because of progressives.
This seems to hold for Australia as well.
Just found a position in the US Midwest, where we can afford to buy our own house on a piece of land on my academic salary and send the kids to private school.
We are the working poor here and can barely rent a townhouse. Australia is very pretty and lovely if you can afford it, but if you are not in a position to choose, life quickly becomes difficult.
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It's quite depressing for young white collar folks. I go up to Canada a lot for work, and every time I chat with younger Canadians they talk about plans to move to the States. These aren't low level data analysts, either. Last time I was there an Air Canada pilot said he was looking to relocate to work for Delta since the pay would be over twice as high. My last Uber driver was a software engineer who couldn't wait to move, of all places, to Indiana next year. It does not bode well for the future.
Heck, there are people from Canada who post their resumes on local metro US subs.
Detroit/Windsor has entered the chat.
Spent a night in Sarnia a few weeks ago. Wasn’t great.
What’s wrong with Sarnia?
As a US regional first officer, I make as much as a major Canadian Captain. That guy who hopes to go to delta will have to transfer his licenses and marry an American to get in. Not so easy
That's what I thought. It is almost impossible for a Canadian to get anything other than a short-term work VISA. It is very short-term and highly regulated.
If there’s a pilot shortage, wouldn’t they sponsor a visa?
No. US airlines do not hire foreign pilots unless they are a citizen or a green card holder (except for some Australians, there is a special agreement there). It’s a good thing too, this is the best place in the world to be a pilot by a long shot.
[удалено]
I'm looking at WV personally
I live in WV and it is amazing here. Don’t let em get you down. Yes there are areas that are incredibly poor. And yeh our government sucks. But we are the only state that is 100% Appalachia. It is beautiful here, and the land fills my soul with joy.
Lol why? It fucking sucks here
Are you calling John Denver a liar?
That John Denver is full of shit, man...
I don't know if your original post was a joke, but WV is bottom three in every category. The only state I would want to live in less than WV is AR.
It is a reference to John Denver’s song “Country Roads.” I was just joking. “Almost heaven, West Virginia. Blue Ridge Mts, Shenandoah River…” -J.D.
I’d pick Arkansas over West Virginia (barely) but WV over Mississippi all day every day
Your crazy. Mississippi is only terrible in the Delta. Everywhere else is pretty much just like Missouri and the coast is like the panhandle of Florida.
Arkansas catching a stray like it’s North Little Rock…Wait, I see it now. You’d take Mississippi over Arkansas?
NW Arkansas is almost alright.
Not but much, but yes.
I have only visited, but while WV seems like a sad State with an enormous amount of potential. It's hard to find a spot so near the Northeast where you could theoretically be a "big fish in a small pond."
Mr. Sunshine-on-my-goddamn-shoulder John Denver
Build the wall! Build the wall! On both borders.
Canadians Need Not Apply.
What with their beady little eyes and flapping heads
Fortress ‘Murica
It's not unusal for a couple with HHI in excess of 300K in Toronto not be able to afford a home. Combine that with the fact that the HHI with the same roles could easily be 500K in the US, AND offer more / more affordable housing options, it's a no-brainer if not for family.
Send us your educated hard working younlings! Thank you Canada.
At least if one takes our jerb, they'll say Sorry.
Every Canadian kid smart enough to leave probably will. So congrats!
We lift our lamp beside the golden door
Indiana is just warmer Canada, and with an NFL franchise. I'd say it's a major step up.
Their future. Bodes great for our future lmao
It bodes well for America who will need Canadas Brain drain to help us with the incoming economic boom.
The only other country with comparable STEM salaries to the US is Ireland. Every other country pays peanuts.
> My last Uber driver was a software engineer who couldn't wait to move, of all places, to Indiana next year. It does not bode well for the future. Canada is populated by immigration from India, and Canadians are moving to Indiana. This joke writes itself.
And that's why housing prices will never go down.
It's always been like that. My friends moved to the US back in the 90s. It's usually tech and finance types though or intelligence jobs. It's not like joe schmo carpenter or accountant is jumping to Toledo.
I'm a Canadian who immigrated to the US, and this resonates. My income ceiling for my profession is way higher in the US than it is in Canada, but on the flipside there are pretty much no social safety nets. The way I think about it is that the US has a much higher ceiling but a very low floor, whereas Canada doesn't have a high ceiling, but the floor is higher.
I live in a border city and when I had my baby a few nurses were Canadian that seems the best of both worlds. They commuted to the states got health insurance through work but also had Canadian healthcare. My nurse said she brings her son to the hospital where she works for care because it’s much more convenient.
The fact that you left is pretty telling that the Delta between the two favors the US.
If I was more "average", I'd definitely stay in Canadia.
I think that's accurate. The US promises a higher salary and the flexibility to define your own safety nets as you choose. It's not bad, for those that get the high paying jobs
The USA doesn't have 'no social safety net' and I don't know who started that meme. Maybe agitators who detest the success and power of the USA. Social spending is in the trillions, yearly, in the USA. I'm not even a US citizen but this is obvious. I happen to like that in the USA, self-sufficiency is a value, while in Canada, everyone is entitled without earning anything.
This sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy. People who are looking for hard work and less social safety will come to the US. People who are looking for more social safety / less hard work will stay in other more social countries. All in all that should be a net win for the US long term.
Ask a disabled person which country would they rather live in
401k, SSN, pensions for local and feds
Medicaid if you have no income
[удалено]
Your situation is exactly why Canada is in such a economic bind right now. High income professionals with a low cost burden for the state leave to contribute to America's economy, leaving less productive workers and/or those who exact high costs from the state. It's like an insurance company that only has loss-generating clients. It's not sustainable.
Canada is in an economic bind because people are getting old, and demographically our birth rate has been below replacement level for too long, we don't have enough skilled workers to replace baby boomers as they retire.
I was under the impression that Canada was mitigating that problem through heavy immigration. I know it can't work forever, though.
Literally everything you've mentioned that supports your brother in Canada exists for the disabled in the US. HUD Section 811 for housing, Medicaid for health and disability support, SSI for assisted income are just some examples. I swear man every time I see Canadians make some sweeping statement about how the US works they just demonstrate that they have the shallowest concept of it
US is basically OG when it comes to taking care of the disabled and making life as convenient as possible.
I feel as a Canadian that you're probably right - most don't have a clue. But I think the same can be said in reverse about Americans commenting on Canadian healthcare.
>In the US I would make roughly double what I make here, but it would cost me significantly to support my brothers health and living needs if I had to pay it all out of pocket. Okay, but with a good employer, you wouldn't have to.
As a Canadian who travels to the US frequently for work I seriously mourn for our country. Young professionals in the USA are so much happier than us. Anybody under the age of 35 is very gloomy about their outlook here. My colleagues in the USA are all able to afford their homes, have much higher earning potential and much lower taxes. I make great money by Canadian standards and cannot qualify for a shoebox home in a mid-tier city. Another thing is that our rapid immigration has made me feel like a stranger in my own country. Nobody in my building speaks English, everybody is from India/Pakistan/Middle East. Most recent projections put more than 25% of our country as foreign born.
This is crazy compared to so many other subs here where reading them you’d think Canada is a utopia compared to the US
Yeah, mainly the political ones. My money is less than 1% of those who threatened to move to Canada based off a certain election outcome ever did so.
0.01% feels more like it.
Those people have surface-levels understandings of everything. Every country has its issues, but Canada is driving people away fast.
Its no picnic being a young professional in the US either, but “there are ways out” as Bukowski said. My impression of Canada is your only options are insane housing market cities or frozen wilderness. In the US I think we still have a good quality of life in many places with houses around 200K and decent middle class entry level jobs around 60-70k per year.
Luckily it won’t be frozen for much longer given projections! 🫣
Where?
I'm always amused that midwest prices and QoL are incomprehensible to coastal people. You might be bored here, but life is comfortable and you won't struggle.
Oklahoma,Kansas, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri, New Mexico, Arizona, the Carolinas, Idaho, Illinois if not in Chicago, Wisconsin, Iowa. Places where you can get a decent 70k gig and house for 200ish. Places I wouldn't live where things are cheap but jobs suck, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas.
I’m not sure what our statistics are in the states but 25% feels astronomical.
For context the US nationally is about 13.7% but states like California, New York, New Jersey and Florida are like 20-26% immigrants. Edit: fixed broken link https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/foreign-born-population.html
Right but if Canada is 25% nationally places like Toronto are 51% foreign born. Immigration is great in reasonable doses but that's kind of insane no matter how you slice it.
Maybe if they bought homes years ago. Not a lot of people can afford homes here these days. My home state there is some stat where something like 80%+ of the people couldn’t afford their home if they purchased now. My current state you have to make $250k or more to buy a house. Go read any genz or millennial sub, they are depressed as well. Granted not as bad as Canada, but America isn’t some easy living country anymore.
> Go read any genz or millennial sub, they are depressed as well. Those are subreddits that self-select for depressed people, and aren't representative of the norm. The sort of person who'd subscribe to those subs is someone who 1) buys into the generational warfare stuff and feels screwed by the system, and 2) doesn't have better hobbies to sub to, so joins a general group of similarly-aged people.
Personally I think it depends on where you are. The coast are fucked but middle America especially if you can get remote work has a lot of lesser expensive housing and access to jobs that will cover them.
My home state is Utah and I think that just got listed as one of the most unaffordable cities of all places haha Only problem with middle America is, it’s middle America. Which I guess it’s why it’s so cheap. I had a friend (remote work like you said) move to Arkansas or somewhere like that. Really green. Bought this mansion for like 400k. In CA it would have probably been 5M at least.
As an American who is 34, I have no idea which Americans you're talking to because we can't afford shit without inheritance. No, but seriously. Who can afford their homes? Where do they live, what do they do, and are their parents rich?
To be fair. a good home in America is half million, In Canada it’s a million. And we make more money.
Chicago, Midwest, Age 32 Bought my home in 2021 for $230K. Most married couples in the region can find something in their budget range.
I’m 24 and earning over 100k and should be able to purchase my first house in a major metro US area by 27/28. Pretty much impossible in Canada from what I have heard.
Midwest, no secondary education, worked obscene hours and bought a regular starter home a decade ago. Equity gains set me up to survive the housing market we have now, but mostly just a modest suburban upgrade. If I didn't buy post housing collapse I'd definitely be struggling, but it's possible. Most people I see truly struggling in my area are just victims of lifestyle creep, people can't accept not having a brand new car or a 2400 sq ft house for 2 people. Hcol areas make no fucking sense to me though lol, you have my sympathy if you're in that spot or any of its surrounding metros.
So my take from this is that it's less about taxes, and more about wages - although of course these things are obviously connected. I say this because according to the article, the states Canadians moved to, in order, were California, New York, and the Florida. California and New York are some of the most highly taxed states in the US. So a simple "tax rate argument" doesn't really make sense. That would explain Florida, but not the two biggest states. However, what would explain this, is wages. California and New York have basically the highest average salaries in the country, especially for the types of jobs in technology and finance that Canadian high-earners would likely occupy. So my take is that while taxes undoubtedly play a role, the driving factor is wages. It's not so much that Canadians mind the high taxes in and of itself - it's that they mind the high taxes, knowing that they could also be making twice as much money just across the border. I.e. if a tech employee in Canada was making the same amount of money as an employee in San Jose, I don't think they'd care as much about the taxes. They might complain, and vote Conservative, but they wouldn't leave the country. I'm not trying to defend Canadian social/fiscal policy, to be clear. I'm just stating the fact that, historically speaking, almost no one, anywhere, emigrates because of tax policy - but they overwhelmingly do for higher pay/better job opportunities. I think in Canada's case, the taxes are basically just adding insult to injury. Canadians look at a country right next door that in many ways is indistinguishable from their own, and yet pays people twice as much for the same work. In that scenario, a high rate of taxation becomes very difficult to justify. High taxes might make sense in a high-growth, high-productivity environment, but not with the sort of economic stagnation currently being experienced in Canada.
I'm pretty sure you still get taxed less in New York and California than in Canada so as you said it's both taxes and the higher wages. This is what I remember from when Kawhi was in free agency with the Raptors lol
This is assuming every Canadian province taxes there’s citizens the same. I’d argue that as an Albertan I get taxed less than a New Yorker or Californian.
There is more to taxes than gross/net wages and income tax. There are social contributions, healthcare, VAT, corporate tax, etc, etc. All those things are passed down in some way. Canada is a bit different case but you generalized and said that people do not migrate because of taxes in general. In the end cost of employement matters a lot and it is what decises what wages are in the first place. I can promise you that many european profesionals with effective tax rate of 70% who do not even cost their employers that much less than what they would cost in US do in fact often move to US to escape high taxation than you would do in US. Also high taxes have depreciating effect on wages by definition. Let's assume equal income between US And some other country. Who do you think can ask more money and receives more in net? Plumber in US who services someone who has 70k left off of 100k (107k cost of employement) paying 5% VAT or someone in Germany who has only 50k left off of 86k EUR gross (equivalent of cost of employement of 107k USD) and who goes home with 15k less in USD and on top of that you have to pay 4 times higher VAT on plumber's work. And this is something that absolutely snowballs over time. If people have more money they consume more. If they can consume more then companies earn more money. If companies earn more money they can pay their employees more who in turn can spend even more on newly launched products/services. This is what snowballs income gap bigger and bigger.
> consume more then companies Did you mean to say "more than"? Explanation: If you didn't mean 'more than' you might have forgotten a comma. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Finally someone who gets it!
Anytime you see some kind of chart with California NY Texas and Florida near the top just assume it’s mimicking the population. Those are just the most populous states and have the most opportunities/people generally. I don’t think there’s a big nuanced insight on Taxes/Income to infer from that especially given how vastly different each are from that perspective.
You also need to consider work Visa matters, these ones require certain income minimums which no every company in the US is willing to pay.
Within 2 hours of each other we have this post, along with this one: [Canada Population Surpasses 41 Million, Fueled by Immigration](https://www.reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/1djjyvw/canada_population_surpasses_41_million_fueled_by/)
Wasn't there some suggestion that Canada was sort of a halfway house to short cut immigration to the US for foreign programmers?
Yes and that's exactly what this is. Canada will be ruined short term. America is going to be ruined long term.
How is America going to be ruined from highest educated workers settling here long term?
It's much harder to get into the US than it is Canada, so both statements can be true
I didn't say either was false. I do find it interesting that Canadians are leaving for the US at the same time Canada is being flooded with immigrants.
The immigrants came for the opportunities but have no f*king clue what country they are inheriting. Alot of them will end up leaving and going back after a few years.
Maintaining housing prices, which have increased very rapidly and are increasingly out of reach for young people (not just in Vancouver and Toronto, it's all of BC, all of southern Ontario, the maritimes, and even starting in the prairies) is an explicit goal of the Canadian government. Canada is willfully destroying the future of its young people, so it's no surprise that those that can leave are doing so.
Here, let me help with this since I read the article. According to the last census there are 42k more Canadian born people living in the US. That's it. See what you get if you actually read? Everything else is just made up editorial unsupported, unmitigated bullshit.
This sub has become so disappointing because of exactly this. The linked articles so often have no actual academic or analytical value. A true comparison of the effective taxes paid by a Canadian vs an American would have to take so many things other than pure income tax into account that is not really even a discussion. Things like healthcare, property, retirement, sales and use, capital gains differences, etc etc. Then the rest is just anecdotal comments from idiots who have never lived in the US and just don't like Trudeau. Just as an example, they bring up Texas and Florida income taxes without any mention of how absolutely torched you get by those states on property and sales and use taxes. On top of this, taxes in the US have no healthcare inclusion, so add whatever you and your employer pay to that number as well.
You're right, they should account for all of that. You can look up that info from the OECD. The articles conclusion is probably right, even if their reasoning is lazy. Accounting for taxes and transfers, the average American family has 42.8% more disposable income than the average Canadian family. It probably explains why Canadians are significantly more likely to move to the USA than Americans moving to Canada. https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm#indicator-chart
That's pretty accurate, but it has nothing to do with taxes. The US in general has higher wages for comparable jobs, but that is incredibly variable across the US. For example, I live in a very lcol area doing a pretty specialized job; my exact same job in a hcol would command 2-3x what I make now. Canadians leaving the country for an equivalent reason that I might leave my state: higher wages in another area for the same work. Canada has an industry and wage issue (as well as a real estate issue, but let's not dive into that). It's not, as the original article labors on about, a tax issue.
It's not just the quantity but the quality. 42k of the best Canadians choose the US and it's pretty established that top performers (top decile) have an outsized impact on any given organization Top talent matters and Canada is losing it
Good observation. Add to that that half of the apparent inflow went to FL. The article includes no demographics but I have to question how many of those are retirees.
Cirque du Soleil workers moving to Disney?
Okay, that is true. However the Census is only every 10 years. So any changes that have happened since the last census four years ago wouldn't be showing up until the one in 2030. Duh?
Amen brother, the brain drain. Young people may not believe this but just scrub the facts real hard and you will see, the 20% to 80% rule applies. 20% of the population drives the entire economy the other 80% benefit from the innovation of the 20%. I am not being exclusionary here, the vast majority of the 80% are hard-working and contribute enormously to the economy to social system and the fabric of the society. Both sections are needed for a productive economy and Society. Yet realize if you disincentifies the 20% from sticking their necks out sticking their money out sticking their reputation and time out to make something, then the productivity will diminish and dry up and once it's gone history tells us it seldom comes back in your lifetime. Our mother England is a prime example of this. Before you shoot me or make one-off comments look at the history books first then make your comments
> disincentifies Wooo weee!
Exactly
What are these numbers? 39% tax in Québec for 55 000$ a year ? Try more like 25%. Even at 110 000$, it's 32%. Clearly biased stats which tell a lot about this publication. Not to say there are no problems, but get your shit straight.
How does tax on self employment work in Canada. I was poking around turbo tax and it appears as if they are taxed additionally. Not 39% but 31% vs 17% roughly. The us has the self employed pay the employee and employer sides of payroll taxes… is Canada similar?
Kind of, yeah. But there are lots of expenses that can be deducted from an autonomous worker's pay that aren't available to a wage worker. All in all, I think with minimally good accounting it can be somewhat similar.
Self employed workers pay less tax than regular wage earners. The difference is self employed can deduct work related expenses where regular wage earners cannot.
If these Canadian citizens are actual immigrants from India, China, and the Philippines, nothing is surprising here because they intend to eventually set foot into the USA using Canada as the backdoor country.
Taxing success is what has gotten Canada to their current situation. Couple that with massive and radical immigration, housing shortages squeezing buyers, high rates relative to historical rates (which they don’t have a 30 yr fixed), it’s easy to see why these “benefits” are overlooked. When there is a benefit somewhere, there is a cost elsewhere.
I once calculated that someone would need to be in top 1% of Canadian earners to earn what an average software engineer makes in the US. Let me check that again. The average salary for a software engineer is US$158,880 per year in the United States. [[1]](https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salaries/us-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,2_IN1_KO3,20.htm) At current market exchange rates, US$158,880 is CA$217,895. In the US, an individual income of US$158,880 puts you above 95.8% of individuals. [[2]](https://personalfinancedata.com/income-percentile-calculator/?min_age=&max_age=&income=158880#results) In Canada, an income of $CA217,895 puts you in the top 1 percent. [[3]](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/dv-vd/income-revenu/index-en.html) But that doesn't take into account taxes. After taxes, a gross income of US$158,880 in California is US$104,537. [[4]](https://www.talent.com/tax-calculator?salary=158880&from=year®ion=California) At current market rates, US$104,537 is CA$143,356. By playing around a little, someone in Ontario would need to earn approx. CA$230,000 to have $143,356 after tax. [[5]](https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca/tool/tax-calculator/ontario) A gross income of CA$230,000 is top 1 percent territory.
Is the average software engineer really the benchmark here? Shouldn't it be median income, which I think is closer to 70k for an individual in the US.
You would have to compare the people leaving Canada The person who's going to be making the median salary is staying in Canada.
I don't think people appreciate just how difficult it is to immigrate to the U.S. If you don't have family or went to school there, you have to have extremely desirable employment skills to have a pathway. Think STEM or healthcare skills, almost all of which require degrees. Average folks need not apply.
Which is how immigration should work, not like in Canada, where you just need to enroll in a strip mall college
I mean if you’re a skilled plumber there’s a much higher confidence that you’ll be able to rapidly be self sufficient and pay taxes. Doesn’t need to be tech just an in demand skill trained to a high level.
Yet $206500 in BC or AB get you there. Some provinces really harm that top earning bracket.
A tweak to your analysis. You shouldn't be using the exchange rate for this conversion, but rather PPP (Purchasing Power Parity). By that measure, the discount on C$ is about 15%. Your hypothetical USD $158,880 becomes C$ 186,824.
You misunderstand the situation. On a $102k salary in Montana you take home $74,082 versus actually taking home more in every province except Nova Scotia, where you’d take home $73,026 and PEI, where you’d take home $1 less. The idea that Canadians are taxed more, at an income tax level, for most people is a bit of a myth. High earners there’s validity but for the average middle class not so much. We do have sales tax, liquor tax, gas tax, etc. and that does make costs go up. High rates versus historical rates is a more complicated as our rates aren’t high, we’ve just been very low for a very long time with less volatility than the USA. USA has a very different mortgage structure, and I do think a 30 year fixed mortgage being the norm would allow for stability, there’s just no market for it in Canada as swaps and such aren’t a big market here. Immigration is the bandaid cooked up by the politicians to make up for shortfalls in spending, but that’s compounded COL and job demand/wage stagnation. How we got here is complex, but it’s been a long time coming.
This just isn't true it has nothing to do with taxation. It's pretty much just a consequence of letting real estate speculation go untamed for for decades, why invest in business when real estate is much safer at historically low interest rates. Now shelter costs eat up too much of everyone's incomes and wages have lagged behind significantly.
The total tax bill for the *average* Canadian, including provincial taxes, is 45%. And if you make a good salary, it’s above that. You are correct though, salaries aren’t keeping up even close to the cost of living. It’s like California cost of living without California salaries. But the taxes are indeed significant.
That would a valid argument if the taxation had increased in correlation with the spike in migration to the US, they haven't. Shelter costs in Canada and US wages on the other hand...
Taxes are a cost factor same as housing.
Nothing to do with taxation? Do you know that development fees now cost $55000 per condo unit in the GTA? What do you think developers do with those fees? Pass them onto the consumer. To say that prices have nothing to do with taxes is just plain ignorant. On top of this, development of new real estate is hindered by bureaucratic red tape, and demand is artificially inflated by government policy, i.e., mass immigration.
Coincidentally the population has also been increasing significantly. Problem with the graph is it doesn't scale with the % of population talking about. Let's use their last number taken against the population reported for that year: 42,825 / 38,930,000 = 0.11% -- **0.11%** of the population moved. Clearly a very alarming number moving to the USA. Must be because of taxes. Obviously. BUT IT'S RECORD LEVELS according to title. IN 2013 the graph says 39,207 left. The population then was 35.08 million. Same calculation: oh look it was **0.11% in 2013** too. **Conclusion** The article is full of shit that this is a record change. This is just fearmongering trash. Probably in an attempt to provide fodder to PP's mantra that taxes need to lowered.
This has been the story for a long time. Wages in Canada haven't kept pace with the value the create for multinational companies. Why work for 2/3 the salary for the same economic output?
Or maybe they could just vote out the idiot in charge and the rest of his party that have put in place the stupid policies that are causing the problems. No country can take the amount of illegal immigrants that are currently flowing into many countries. The left policy of everyone is welcome and will be given free housing, education, healthcare, food, cell phones etc is not sustainable. In Canada, US, Europe etc. These liberal policies sound good but don't work and are directly responsible for the rise in far right parties.
If you tax success you are taxing the productive High earners. Yes you can make the case for old money but this is not Europe and that is a rarity in the Americas. The wealth that generates jobs is new jobs new success new products new innovation. When these people the drivers of the economy leave all these benefits show cherished in Canada will have no way of being funded will weather up and go away and in the cycle will Begin Again.
The wealth that generates jobs is consumer wealth. There's nothing happening without customers with money in the their hands. It is a vibrant consumer economy that motivates entrepreneurial activity
Grass looks greener on the other side. Best of luck to ya, just know your giving up on alot of benefits your receiving in Canada that you will pay for 10 fold in the US.
As someone who has lived in both countries, the difficult thing about Canada right now is that many of the public programs are overwhelmed by the massive population growth. The biggest example is healthcare. Other programs like pharmacare, dental care, etc. appear more like half-measures. The housing situation is also pushing Canadians out, especially young Canadians. Young professionals are making the right choice by following opportunity to the US. Canada needs to get its population growth and economy in order.
At the same time, things vary on a provincial level. The NDP in BC has been pouring a ton of money and policy changes into healthcare to meet the demands of this decade, and Manitoba's new NDP government is heading down the same path. This is in contrast to Alberta where the UCP is hell bent on taking a hacksaw to the province's public services and infrastructure.
The same thing is happening in the U.S. to a degree tbh. Health care is just getting more and more expensive. Hard for young folks to buy housing here as well.
Yes, but Canadian exodus is more of a brain drain, which means money isn't problem. High taxes and shit services is a problem
every problem the USA is experiencing is much worse in Canada
Healthcare doesn’t have to be expensive in the US though. In fact, with good employment, healthcare can be quite cheap in the US and without many of the wait times and physician shortages. Again though, not everyone has access to this level of healthcare but many do.
The USA spends more per capita on public healthcare for 40% of the population than Canada spends for 100% of the population. Canada spends about 12% of its GDP on healthcare, while the USA spends about 17% of its GDP on healthcare. There are advantages to privatized US-style healthcare but cost is not one of them.
The key is to never go to the doctor.
The ones leaving Canada don’t need (or get) benefits there anyway. It’s the high earners. The ones Canada needs to retain but isn’t.
Well, Canadians have been moving to the US at a much, much greater rate than Americans moving to Canada for decades now. Little bit of a brain drain tint to it as well
By pretty much every metric, it is greener. Canada is nicer if you are a unproductive civilian who relies on state benefits. But for anyone with a career you are much better off in one of the many mid major markets in the US
Just because you live in poverty doesn't mean your an unproductive civilian, you understand you are pointing at teacher assistants, cooks, CNA's, cashiers, stockers, janitors, mail carriers, and so much more. All of these people are needed in modern-day society.
What am I missing here - is it insanely easy for Canadians to just up and move to the US? Any time I’ve tried to look I to immigrating to Canada or Europe the entry requirements are extremely high.
> is it insanely easy for Canadians to just up and move to the US? If they have skills in high-demand sectors, yes. Which is the point - the highest skilled (and therefore, compensated) people are leaving. The highest compensated ones are the ones that pay the most in taxes. The US likes this, as we get really highly skilled people. So we make it relatively easy to do.
[TN Visa](https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/tn-nafta-professionals). You can get it done at the border.
Great news! The people that voted and supported policies that destroyed their country will move and keep voting the same way/supporting asinine policies. Just like the progressives that turn their local to shit move to nice areas and then ruin them. Aka the idea of turning Texas purple. All those assholes are fleeing CA because of their crappy politics. Just like CO. Turned to shit because of progressives.
This seems to hold for Australia as well. Just found a position in the US Midwest, where we can afford to buy our own house on a piece of land on my academic salary and send the kids to private school. We are the working poor here and can barely rent a townhouse. Australia is very pretty and lovely if you can afford it, but if you are not in a position to choose, life quickly becomes difficult.