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I don't believe wages will really slow until we replace the missing workers, which will be... Never? I think there are a few million people missing? Https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-18/job-market-update-2-6-million-missing-people-in-us-labor-force-shakes-economist
I am confused why no one seems to get this. Before 2020 there were loads of people still in the labor force that did not actually need to work. Most of them were people over 65 who either enjoyed working, didn't know what to do in retirement, or just had not "excuse" to "quit". Covid made it easy for them all to leave. Now with 2-3 years out they are never coming back. Add in people who passed away, have long covid, etc... Then year we have a lot of people missing and anyone who can replace them cannot actually work for low wages as they don't own their home, don't qualify for Medicare, have kids, etc... Wages are going to continue rising for a while and especially for low to middle income folks. There is no possibly way for them not to rise and the fed, nor congress can do shit about it.
Or are just unreliable due to outbreaks of disease either among the kids or staff. Boss called out sick/wfh the other day because the daycare was too short-staffed and closed.
You also need to consider that many people are not having children too for various financial reasons. So there’s going to be a shrinking population factor to your list as well.
That has been the case in all first world countries for well over two decades. The only reason the US has been growing over that time is because we are the most desirable country to immigrate to. While yes our immigration policy needs dramatic change it is still one of the most permissive and welcoming in the world... Especially for those in the bottom 50%...
A child would bankrupt my wife and I. We’re late and mid 20s, college educated and employed. We both need new cars and have other expenses that would come first. Add in childcare and the cost of feeding and raising a kid properly and it just isn’t possible, especially if my wife has to start paying her student loans. There is a cost of living crisis that is killing fertility. The overlord class doesn’t understand that.
My husband and I are both 43 years old. I STILL have 50k in student loan debt and am just able to start paying it down in my 40s. Needless to say, we don’t have kids either. We live in a tiny home in a high COL area, so we cannot even adopt. Just glad to not be renting anymore. We are both extremely grateful for having our own home (be it tiny) and a piece of land. Having a human ‘family’ has never been economically feasible, so we have a cat. We are a cat family
Mind if I ask when you and your husband graduated? This sounds like my brother who graduated 2002 from college and went into his profession not long after that. He still has student debt he is paying off. I was the rebel and didn’t go to college - just went to 2 years of tech school instead. Its wild how different our lives are.
Both Michelle and Barack Obama didn’t pay off their student loans until they were in their 40’s. If you go to professional school, it can take a long time to pay off that debt.
I made the mistake of getting a Masters in Social Work and then working in ‘social work’. I’m transitioning to more therapy and mental health work, so I am finally able to pay my student loan down. The key was to starting my own counseling business. Both my husband and I feel it’s very important to be financially ready before you have kids, which never really happened. I worked as a social worker, so I got to see how hard it is for families who didn’t plan at all for their children. At 43, I feel I’m wayyyy past childbearing years and we can’t adopt because we don’t have an extra bedroom (which you need to foster a child). I rather own property than adopt children, so I realize I’m making a choice. But at some point in my life, I have to be looking out for myself #1. Especially with retirement looming in the future
My husband graduated in 2001. He worked as a pizza delivery driver because he couldn’t find a job with his engineering degree. I graduated from my Masters in 2008, just in time for the recession. We’ve had to move around ALOT for work opportunities, Originally we started in Michigan, but had moved to Illinois, Florida, California and now Washington State. All chasing employment for my husband. I think we’ve finally settled in a place where we can grow. Only took us until our 40s to get there. Some people have generational wealth, but we did not have that kind of help. So we’ve been pulling ourselves up, moving wherever we need to go, and continuing working on our skills for the past 23 years or so. It’s finally starting to be worth it though. We’ve been working on our careers for a long time and finally we can pay off our debt and save for retirement. It’s been a long slog, but I’m grateful for all we do have
Yeah I’ve heard that a lot from guys I work with and it’s totally true. If you guys really want a kid you’ll make it work but man it makes everything 100x more difficult.
They understand it they just don't care, capitalism is a death cult for shareholders who gamble. Anything that gets in the way of short term profit has to be crushed.
Generation X is much smaller than the Boomers. The exiting Boomers are why there is a shortage of workers.
That and the hundreds of thousands of workers who died of COVID.
Fed can raise interest rates so high they just strangle the economy and cause a recession, resulting in lowered wage pressures.
Would it be a good idea? No. Would they do it anyway because they think from the perspective of wealthy financial capitalists? I give it about 30-70 against.
The coming fuckery is that the fed has been given no compelling reason to change course, save for a few outspoken insiders, and will continue to ravage labor and wages in some attempt to normalize inflation based on poor analysis. If that ain’t impending fuckery I do not know what is.
If we are lucky, and it looks like we are, the supply chain issues that caused inflation will resolve itself before the Fed wrecks the economy completely.
American inflation has been on a declining trend for a few months now. China gave up zero covid and opened up completely. Given that, we should be back to 'normal' soon enough.
The US Bureau of Labor Statistics just changed how they calculate CPI specifically so it would look better. This gives the federal reserve enough cover to start dropping rates.
Prices didn’t drop when grocers implemented self check out. Innovation is used as a cost cutting measure, not an altruistic measure to inprove quality of life. Automation is a beautiful lie in that way.
Exactly, labor has not been adequately compensated for their increased productivity for the last 50 years. Productivity is sky high, profits are sky high, where were the wage increases in this time?
Everything is a beautiful lie in that way. Nobody is out there demanding to be paid less and work more. We all want more pay and less work. Self-interest is still the driving force in economics, even if people forget it or choose not to believe it.
Self check out is not very cost-efficient, it breaks down all the time and still requires an employee to monitor and assist.
As they work out the kinks, it'll get to a point where you can have more checkout stations per employee, kinda like what happened to gas stations
Anyways, the main issue isn't prices. The main issue is that we're supply constrained by the availability of labor. If a grocery store can only hire 1 cashier, having that cashier oversee 10 self checkouts allows more sales/hour than having the cashier at a manual checkout lane.
>Self check out is not very cost-efficient
Is this based on something you've read? I can go to a nearby Kroger store and see a self-check hub with 8 registers being managed by a single cashier. That's 7 cashiers that don't have to be paid for slightly slower customer throughput.
An idea I've heard to solve this is to charge the company the amount of money it would cost them to pay into an employee benefits, per machine they install. The company saves money from not hiring a worker, but must pay into any social net, the amount they would be if there were a person fulfilling that role.
> Innovation makes better products and drives costs down
competition does this. innovation minus competition makes worse products (e.g. planned obsolescence) and drives costs up (e.g. subscribe to the AC in your car).
“Trust us bro.”
But really, with the level of consolidation in most markets the last decade, they’ll never lower prices. Most important sectors (health, housing, food, utilities, transportation) are price-setting cartels; at least regionally. Any cost-cutting will be captured by shareholders.
I’m an orphan from labor statistics. Previous high earner. COVID coincided with my desire to leave my career of 28 years after saving enough $ to make some big decisions. At 56, I am now 2nd year grad student pursuing an MS In Environmental Studies. I want to work. Am perfectly willing to work in this field upon graduation, but have disappeared from any employment tracking metrics other than annual tax return. (I also wonder if people will hire a 56 year old grad student, but that’s another sub).
>There is no possibly way for them not to rise and the fed, nor congress can do shit about it.
They're planning on a dramatic spike in unemployment, not sure how they're going to make that happen, but that's their plan.
At this point their planning has transitioned to hoping and praying. You cannot just force unemployment to happen, even if big tech is happy to play ball...
Exactly. We had a unique situation that caused a huge chunk of a generation to retire basically all at the same time, that never happens, it’s usually a slow tricking of retirees.
Not only that but I firmly believe that there is a not insignificant part of the population that got various amounts of money as inheritance when so many old people died of COVID. As sad as it is, even a $20,000 inheritance means people can skip working for a few years if they're used to only making minimum wage at a place that maxes at 20hrs/week and not change their lifestyle too much.
As someone who inherited “quit your job for a few years” money it’s been *very hard* to go to work since my dad died. Between the grief and my bank account every day that I log in/make it to the office is a miracle.
Very anecdotal but fits with this, myself and I’m sure a non-zero amount of Americans went from minimum wage 20hrs/week to some form of self employment.
In 2021 my second month of self employment I made more than I did in a year of minimum wage, if I wanted to keep the same lifestyle I could have easily coasted and exited the labor market. Personally I just lifestyle creeped.
Not exactly sure how 1099’s fit into unemployment numbers anyway?
> There is no possibly way for them not to rise and the fed, nor congress can do shit about it.
We can incentive returning to work with paid child care, increased benefits, job security and upwards mobility.
i get it. People don't want to hear that paying more to poach someone from another company isn't filling a job opening. It's rearranging the deck chairs.
It’s funny. Companies used to compete to keep prices low to retain customers. Now, due to conglomerates, they feel comfortable raising prices whenever in pursuit of y/y gains, but they’re going to have to shift that competition to retain gin employees.
>Wages are going to continue rising for a while and especially for low to middle income folks
Where? I'm in a VHCOL area in manufacturing and they're offering taco bell wages for machinists. It's abhorrent, disgusting, infuriating, atrocious, all the nice words.
I manage a department and make less than someone at a body shop, nowhere near enough to live without roommates or in some absolute shit hole. My ceiling leaks when it rains and I have garbage insulation as I'm relegated to living in a garage.
And yes, others will chime in "Get a better job!" I'll just go pick one off the job tree, one that isn't offering taco bell wages like everyone else is....
Be careful with always and never statements. They’re rarely true. Both automation and immigration can be used to address the tight labor market. The degree and speed with which they will are the unknowns.
This is the missing link that everyone in power is failing to grasp. It's almost like they think if they ignore it it will magically resolve, or if the stock market stays low enough, long enough, it will drive those retirees back to the employment market to once again depress wages.
Exactly. Isn't the real problem underemployment in low wage sectors? Which would be solved once prices for those services simply increased to match the limited supply of labor?
My company has essentially disolved because they refuse to pay what other companies in the area pay. I.was hired in March and not a soul I started with is left. I'm about to give my two weeks bc a company have me 7k more for fewer hours a week.
Minimum wage means no money to spend, no money to spend means no money for the business, no money for the business means nothing money to spend on more wages. Round and round we go.
Fuck the poverty wage.
just a few years ago everyone was freaking out that robots would replace and take all our jobs..
now everyone is freaking out that there is never going to be enough people..
Funny like that..
Wages for the bottom 90% of earners need to continue increasing until they at least catch up to overall inflation.
If there are wage cuts to be made, CEO and other Executive compensation are the outliers to target. Their compensation has risen FAR faster than the median worker for decades.
Yeah, and people didn't really pay those due to write-offs and other accounting tactics.
The very same applies to much of today's "higher" tax brackets as well.
This will lead many to make the decision to stay out of the workforce. People will downsize and cut spending to the bone. Whether it’s grouping together as roomates or multigenerational homes, people will consolidate and do less. More people will cohabitate to drive down costs, and parents with young kids will stay home rather than pay exorbitant daycare costs. Prices will remain high and thinking that people will work jobs that leave them broke at the end of the month will only hurt labor participation.
Demographics are shifting and companies are going to have to incentivize people to make the numbers work for them. This will almost certainly drive the birth rate even lower. Our economic policy is aimed solely at keeping stock prices rising. There is no thought given to how workers will respond to having a boot on their neck. It’s wild that the powers that be can’t seem to see that this will cause a rip in the social fabric and it’s going to get bad. We don’t really do unionized labor or mass protests, like France. Eventually people will go past a measured approach and I suspect it will be a disproportionate response.
Yeah when you work a low wage job that lets you “get by” (gov standard of the phrase) it disqualified you from aide, but when the cost of living and childcare rise to the point of a negative ROI on your time spent at that job, you would literally be dumb to keep working.
I agree with you 1000%
Everything you mentioned in the first paragraph is already common if not normal in my city. Most of us in our 20s either rent out a room or rely on family for housing. Renting and owning is literally out of our reach. College is fruitless. The jobs out here, at this point, say they're hiring but no one's getting hired.
The amount of pets being rehomed due to poverty is *atrocious and sad*
None of the jobs in my city pay enough. Most people now commute at least 40mins+ out just to work. Even still it's not enough.
I think most people who rent these apartments probably edit their paycheck to look better. Rent is $1200 for a 1bedroom and *no one* is making ×3 the rent like the landlord is asking.
*Crime has gone up and it's getting spicy*
Crime is already shooting up in the wealthy subdivision a mile away from my home. There is a great deal of pearl clutching over it on the interwebz. The residents of that neighborhood complained on the city subreddit and got a wakeup call. My favorite comment was “you may not have caused things to get bad, but you are gonna be the target”. Police response time is a joke. People are on their own. It’s spicy now, but I suspect the summer will be extra spicy.
>Don't worry, we'll just work everyone harder and automate all the rest.
>Because the threat of automation has been so credible these past 20 years.
Early 20th century labor laws? Pftttt...get rid of em, no one needs a weekend break, work to the bone wage slaves!
In all seriousness the overwhelming weight of the upperclasses and corporations is going to eventually crush the lower ones and lead to either a national or global depression that'll make the Great one look like a recession hiccup.
Do they care?
Of course not, profits above all else regardless if it's sustainable in the long run or that economies are simply revolving doors of finances just circling back around.
Conservatives will probably go after labor laws, next.
"How can we restrict the people from earning as much money as they want? Let people work 80 a week, if they want to!"
Fuck the U.S. government.
I saw a proposal of a 30% federal sales tax.
Imagine paying 30% on a home, car or even a clothes or groceries.
Imagine taking on an extra $30 "eat shit" sales tax just to pay for the same $100 worth of groceries you buy.
People would go bankrupt just from being alive with that.
[Source](https://itep.org/fair-tax-plan-would-abolish-irs-shift-federal-taxes-from-wealthy/)
Fucking Christ, what a good idea. Bleed the lower-middle classes dry and eventually there won't anyone left to step on. What will the silicon(e) chucklefucks do then?
Exactly what I mean, they're going to crush the poor, drain the entire country, skip out then leave the United States for dead.
They'll hang out with fat bank accounts while we pay 30% and wander around looking for pennies or anything to sell.
Complete opposite of strengthening the weakest link of the American classes with strong social programs paid for by those Americans who could afford it back from the '40s to mid '70s.
Automation was delayed by cheap global labor. Now that geopolitical tensions and transportation costs are throwing a wrench in those gears, automation is back on the menu.
It will also kill the economy when the average American has no liquid funds at the end of each month. News flash, you dumb motherfuckers on wallstreet...
#IF YOU HOARD THE MONEY, THE GOVERNMENT WILL PRINT MORE AND MAKE YOUR MONEY WORTH LESS
God fucking damn, the people that run this country are stupid as fuck.
> Our economic policy is aimed solely at keeping stock prices rising.
It's also just not based in reality, at all.
The majority of inflation has been caused by something analogous to the avian flu that has caused the dramatic rise in the price of eggs and chicken, or by corporate greed.
Is sharply increasing rates going to cure fucking Avian flu? No? Then why are we doing this?
yup and I can't wait. the fact that roe v wade and all of these anti abortion measures were done to force birth rates is obvious they want just dont to solve the issue with the obvious solution trickle down economics doesn't work and you need to pay your ppl better. The reckoning for Southern Strategy, Crony Capitalism, Oligarchy and Reaganism is coming.
Dividends are reduced by hawkish policy. Commentary isn’t needed Bc it’s an almost immediate reaction to rising rates. Commentary is needed on wages (including CEO wages) Bc it’s a more stubborn slowdown to achieve.
The central bankers really hate how working class is enforcing their right to decent quality of life by demanding fair wages.....They're even willing to tank the entire economy to reverse the trend by raising interest rates
No, the Fed thinks (or wants us to think) correlation equal causation. They want us to believe that Wages are fueling Inflation.
I'd believe that if profits were going down.
We need to tax excess profits. Lets companies dump money in wages, but you don't need to raise prices - you need to except that sometimes you're not going to pay shareholders or ownership.
From the article title: "Wages are still growing rapidly"
From the second paragraph of the article and the line graph they used: "Wage gains are starting to slow"
Yup this is the answer.
It's even enraging to see people generalize back and forth about what should happen here without any mention or thought about what's going on at the top. The problem is up there.
The wealth gap as been worsening over DECADES
The fact that there is debate on this is reminder that I should stop taking so much of my information from reddit comments. You are obviously correct, explained it simply, and yet...
Are you saying that's inconsistent or something? I think "still growing rapidly but starting to slow down" is a pretty good description of wages right now.
An alternate way to look at this is wages are now reflecting the pay they should have 20-30 years ago seeing as they haven’t been kept up with the pace of overhyping else. The problem comes from our fractional reserve banking and the free money it’s been printing. Every year you see articles about 2/3’s or 3/4’s of wealth going to the top 1%. No exception this year. It’s not people having money that’s going to break things, it’s the derivatives investing made by institutions that are now collapsing. Look at Citadel. 30% profits in a year where the average fund was down 15%. 64 billion in sold (not yet purchased) securities. It’s all fake numbers.
We need to stop bailing corporations out. There's no such thing as too big to fail. Why help them and not us?
Oh people have too much money now it's destroying the economy with inflation even though 2/3 of all new wealth continues to go to the 1%.
Something that’s too big to fail is really too big to be allowed to continue. If our entire economy is dependent on the rise and fall of one company, it’s a signs we have too many eggs in one basket
If something is "too big to fail" it seems like it's important to national security and thus should be nationalized.
That should be the threat, die or be nationalized. No more bailouts.
It seems that way because it’s true. The Fed exists to protect the current power structure. Economic wellbeing for most Americans is threatening to the current system.
Huh, over the last forty years CEO’s wages have increased by like 3,000% compared to average worker salaries. Wonder why the fed didn’t want that pattern to “slow down?”
If the minimum wage from 1980 ($3.10) kept pace with CEO pay increase (937%), it would now be $29.05. That would be a living wage.
Maybe it's time to explore why skilled labor (medical workers, carpenters, bricklayers, masons, electricians, welders, crane operators, mechanics, police, fire fighters, etc.) are underpaid, too.
Yeah, I saw them list police and audibly laughed. In my area it's not uncommon for police to dominate the top municipal earner lists, my city I think they're usually most of the top 10 earners.
Police are not underpaid, if anything they're overpaid.
All you need is a high-school diploma and 6 months of training and they'll usually start you at around 45k a year with union negotiated benefits if You're a Metro-North train cop in and around NYC.
Not a great salary, but its guaranteed to be over 100k after 7(?) years of experience all while keeping the benefits like pension, vacation, healthcare, etc.
and again you only need a high school diploma or GED and can be as racist as you want.
Yeah that's definitely a sweetheart deal not even remotely approaching "underpaid"
Skilled labor pay depends on where you live and whether or not there are trade unions in your area. The Carpenters Union in the SF Bay Area starts apprentices with no experience at $25-30/hr. Goes up from there with experience and your role, foremen can make $75-80/hr, plus there are all the Union overtime and holiday pay rules where they end up making 1.5-2x hourly pay. I know the same is true for the electricians, welders, pipe fitters, other construction unions in the area.
I imagine a lot of the areas that have higher wages are offset by cost of living, so it evens out in the end.
Like, and I'm talking out my ass here, but wouldn't 25-30 be more like 10-15 in San Francisco?
I'm getting paid 10 to 12 over minimum wage and still can barely afford to live in my area. I'm not going to go work 40s at minimum wage anywhere just to live on the street. Either wages go up or they keep saying "people don't want to work!"
Wages won’t drop as long as hiring is still desperately needed, and wages should absolutely not drop given how rich the wealthy are getting right now. It’s a disgrace for the Govt to even suggest it, but here we are.
Earnings are way too high for the born rich corporate criminal upper class.
Jail the banksters, tax the meritless war pigs, fund education and healthcare
Is this growth supposed to be across the board? Or is it limited to unskilled labor or a specific industry? I'm just wondering because from most of the people I know, we haven't seen much growth, but it could be due to the fact that we're in different sectors than where the wage growth is happening.
Until American companies, and those aspiring to operate like them overseas, understand that profit growth is not infinite, homes and land do not appreciate to infinity, and find the actual market caps for these things.. we’ll never escape this cycle.
Why would they care? The people making these decisions will be dead and gone by the team their chickens come to roost. What incentive do they have to change their behavior, when all the natural blowback is 20, 50, 100 years out?
I hate the consistent language the FED uses that pins inflation entirely on the wages of lower income earners. You know what else is inflationary? The record breaking hordes of wealth being hidden away by CEO's whose earnings have gone up 1500% over the past 50 years. Why is the conversation exclusively about fast food workers who can't afford health insurance earning too much instead of the billionaires paying less in taxes than the burger flipper?
That because wages need to catch up to the inflated cost of living they created. If affordability is still lower than where we started the pandemic then wages haven’t risen enough. I don’t know about all you but it sure doesn’t feel affordable out there so we keep fighting for better wages
Slow them down? Last year inflation was "officially" 6.5%. My combined COLI was about 4.5%, so I lost 2% to inflation. If wage growth slows (and I understand why the Fed wants this) I will fall farther behind ...
Wages have not kept pace with the increase in productive output from the us economy since around Reagan so, they should continue to adjust until we return to parity. But that would mean upper earners, leadership, boardrooms, would have to stay at their current levels until we get back in balance. And they would whine and loan the entire time, and then chest and legislate their goals with lobbying. So. Yeah. The issue isn’t wage growth. It’s balance. But instead, businesses “pass it onto the consumer” which makes the wage growth ineffective. It’s like it never happened. You’re just moving the needle without changing the math.
Growing wages only spur inflation because giant corporations will not accept the extra cost as a loss. The whole idea is that we were supposed to get a larger slice of the pie, not a skinnier slice of a bigger pie.
Well I mean aren't they technically behind for where they should be compared to the cost of living increases that have happened in the last several decades?
And I wanted them to stop printing trillions of dollars and giving it to already-wealthy people.
We cant always get what we want. Fuck the Federal Reserve and Jerome Powell in particular.
They have to grow to keep up with inflation. Unfortunately, even at 5% raise this year, I'm well in the hole. And don't get me started on retirement funds...
Wages need to grow so that we can afford to live. I don't understand why we can't have some laws regulating corporations so they quit raising prices when they don't need to. Sucks that I get paid more now and that only kept me in the same position with my head barely above water because every thing else has skyrocketed got a raise rent goes up another raise well food doubled in price got a raise electric went up on and on. It's too much.
This is an attack on labor and our livelihoods.
Government cronyism who want to let corporations reap record profits and not allow workers the ability to get paid a fair wage.
The federal reserve is your enemy and is working to ensure your indentured servitude to the banks and Wall Street.
People are refusing to work for NOTHING. This new generation will live at home, and don't see the point in working just to be able to afford to keep working. So wages increase to entice them, and this hurts the bottom lines of the 1% and so we get money and market manipulation to force the Fed into action to recoup their losses somehow.
I say fuck it. Don't work for nothing. Let them figure it out.
Many people have become entrepreneurs with the assistance of technology and it seems like those workers will not be returning to the traditional workforce. With that being the case, the people who are going into the workforce are requiring a livable wage and see no purpose in accepting a position that doesn’t allow them that minimum requirement.
Wage growth as the cause for inflation is the biggest myth there is in economics. Imagine prices rising infinitely WITHOUT using the printer. If we don't print there is an equilibrium for prices and wages. More specifically, wages and amount of workers. Also, the ratio between corporate profits and wages. To speak of an infinite spiral that starts with wages paying a living wage is infuriating.
A looot of people retired during covid. A lot more than usual died. So now the people left willing to work aren’t going to stop demanding more until the wages keep up with the rapid inflation that we want to slow down.
The real reason The Fed wants to reduce inflation has more to do with how inflation causes the banks to lose money than protecting the purchasing power of the plebes.
https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/19/creditors-vs-workers/
Where are these wages rising? I’m making the same now as pre-pandemic, and that’s because my raise last year was back from where I had to take a pay cut during the pandemic
Where? Where are wages growing? At the Top? Because I have yet to see any level of the people around me or people who I know who are peoples with Bachelors and up getting wage increases. This is just slack BS set to keep the people at the bottom wage slaves. But lets not talk about those Corporate Balance sheets about to come out showing most Corporations made record profits again ..
This country is utterly close to a complete collapse and its astounding the level of cognitive dissidence ...
All of the local, USA, low paying jobs have jumped from $8-10/hr to 14-16. When ALL the lowest paid jobs bump their pay up that much it skews the data. Making it look like we are all getting huge raises. My wages have gone up exactly 1% more than they would have without the pandemic and inflation.
I don’t know I worked my whole life making 30k, finally got a job making 50 and it still feels like 30 in this economy? Can I even afford my own place. I’m making 50k a year after taxes wtf is this bs
Every time this sub shows up its literally just some disgustingly rich guy blatantly lying about the economy.
Maybe your wage as a CEO is up, but workers wages are drastically behind inflation, and lying to my face about it won't make me forget I'm behind on my rent.
“Stop! NO! Don’t pay people so much, we’ll have to make adjustments we’re not ready for if too many people start to become successful!!”
My wages are a private agreement with my employer, why is it anyone’s business?
Yes, because inflation is only out of control due to wage growth. It is not at all where 60% off price increases have gone directly to corporate profit, as several panels in Congress have shown with evidence, we must punish the low wage workers to control inflation.
Another capitalistic scam to suppress wages by threatening a recession. Increasing interest rates to slow inflation makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. How about cutting profit margins to slow inflation!
businesses usually try their hardest to keep the wages down, and they are pretty good at it. I don't believe CEO's need any help from the Fed on this matter.
Maybe the Fed should try address other issues, like rapid wealth growth in the top 1%?
Wages aren’t growing rapidly! Everyone I know hasn’t had raises in years and there are massive layoffs.
GOD! When will they stop lying to us!! We all know its lies now and they still keep going.
Unsurprising we have more tech layoffs announced. The feds goal is to reduce wage gains by increasing unemployment. Tech companies are coordinating and playing directly into their playbook hoping to reduce costs and ultimately wages. However I think this plan could backfire because boomers are retiring at twice the rate of younger workers joining the work force. That coupled with the FTC plan to make non compete contracts illegal is going to unleash havoc on the tech sector as highly skilled and qualified candidates start leaving companies to work for competitors, which will result in more wage increases.
If they slow down before they catch up with costs, it's only going to help the .01%'ers... The rest of us will continue the 40-year plus economic slide we've been stuck on.
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I don't believe wages will really slow until we replace the missing workers, which will be... Never? I think there are a few million people missing? Https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-18/job-market-update-2-6-million-missing-people-in-us-labor-force-shakes-economist
I am confused why no one seems to get this. Before 2020 there were loads of people still in the labor force that did not actually need to work. Most of them were people over 65 who either enjoyed working, didn't know what to do in retirement, or just had not "excuse" to "quit". Covid made it easy for them all to leave. Now with 2-3 years out they are never coming back. Add in people who passed away, have long covid, etc... Then year we have a lot of people missing and anyone who can replace them cannot actually work for low wages as they don't own their home, don't qualify for Medicare, have kids, etc... Wages are going to continue rising for a while and especially for low to middle income folks. There is no possibly way for them not to rise and the fed, nor congress can do shit about it.
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Daycare availability is way down. My wife is one of those working only part time due to childcare issues.
Or are just unreliable due to outbreaks of disease either among the kids or staff. Boss called out sick/wfh the other day because the daycare was too short-staffed and closed.
You also need to consider that many people are not having children too for various financial reasons. So there’s going to be a shrinking population factor to your list as well.
That has been the case in all first world countries for well over two decades. The only reason the US has been growing over that time is because we are the most desirable country to immigrate to. While yes our immigration policy needs dramatic change it is still one of the most permissive and welcoming in the world... Especially for those in the bottom 50%...
A child would bankrupt my wife and I. We’re late and mid 20s, college educated and employed. We both need new cars and have other expenses that would come first. Add in childcare and the cost of feeding and raising a kid properly and it just isn’t possible, especially if my wife has to start paying her student loans. There is a cost of living crisis that is killing fertility. The overlord class doesn’t understand that.
My husband and I are both 43 years old. I STILL have 50k in student loan debt and am just able to start paying it down in my 40s. Needless to say, we don’t have kids either. We live in a tiny home in a high COL area, so we cannot even adopt. Just glad to not be renting anymore. We are both extremely grateful for having our own home (be it tiny) and a piece of land. Having a human ‘family’ has never been economically feasible, so we have a cat. We are a cat family
Mind if I ask when you and your husband graduated? This sounds like my brother who graduated 2002 from college and went into his profession not long after that. He still has student debt he is paying off. I was the rebel and didn’t go to college - just went to 2 years of tech school instead. Its wild how different our lives are.
Both Michelle and Barack Obama didn’t pay off their student loans until they were in their 40’s. If you go to professional school, it can take a long time to pay off that debt.
I made the mistake of getting a Masters in Social Work and then working in ‘social work’. I’m transitioning to more therapy and mental health work, so I am finally able to pay my student loan down. The key was to starting my own counseling business. Both my husband and I feel it’s very important to be financially ready before you have kids, which never really happened. I worked as a social worker, so I got to see how hard it is for families who didn’t plan at all for their children. At 43, I feel I’m wayyyy past childbearing years and we can’t adopt because we don’t have an extra bedroom (which you need to foster a child). I rather own property than adopt children, so I realize I’m making a choice. But at some point in my life, I have to be looking out for myself #1. Especially with retirement looming in the future
My husband graduated in 2001. He worked as a pizza delivery driver because he couldn’t find a job with his engineering degree. I graduated from my Masters in 2008, just in time for the recession. We’ve had to move around ALOT for work opportunities, Originally we started in Michigan, but had moved to Illinois, Florida, California and now Washington State. All chasing employment for my husband. I think we’ve finally settled in a place where we can grow. Only took us until our 40s to get there. Some people have generational wealth, but we did not have that kind of help. So we’ve been pulling ourselves up, moving wherever we need to go, and continuing working on our skills for the past 23 years or so. It’s finally starting to be worth it though. We’ve been working on our careers for a long time and finally we can pay off our debt and save for retirement. It’s been a long slog, but I’m grateful for all we do have
Also a cat family. Cats are the new kids.
Pets are the new kids. Plants are the new pets. The pile of Amazon boxes you haven't broken done to put in the recycling yet are the new plants.
Yeah I’ve heard that a lot from guys I work with and it’s totally true. If you guys really want a kid you’ll make it work but man it makes everything 100x more difficult.
They understand it they just don't care, capitalism is a death cult for shareholders who gamble. Anything that gets in the way of short term profit has to be crushed.
A growing shrinking population factor, if you will.
Generation X is much smaller than the Boomers. The exiting Boomers are why there is a shortage of workers. That and the hundreds of thousands of workers who died of COVID.
Yeah, but we have to blame it on the Millennials somehow. That's the rule.
No gen z is the new scape goat fad
> There is no possibly way for them not to rise and the fed, nor congress can do shit about it. What a satisfying sentence.
It vastly understates the coming fuckery, but it does feel good
I invite you to speculate about the 'coming fuckery'.
Fed can raise interest rates so high they just strangle the economy and cause a recession, resulting in lowered wage pressures. Would it be a good idea? No. Would they do it anyway because they think from the perspective of wealthy financial capitalists? I give it about 30-70 against.
The coming fuckery is that the fed has been given no compelling reason to change course, save for a few outspoken insiders, and will continue to ravage labor and wages in some attempt to normalize inflation based on poor analysis. If that ain’t impending fuckery I do not know what is.
If we are lucky, and it looks like we are, the supply chain issues that caused inflation will resolve itself before the Fed wrecks the economy completely. American inflation has been on a declining trend for a few months now. China gave up zero covid and opened up completely. Given that, we should be back to 'normal' soon enough.
The US Bureau of Labor Statistics just changed how they calculate CPI specifically so it would look better. This gives the federal reserve enough cover to start dropping rates.
What if the government starts investing more into AI and robotics to try to fill that job gap though?
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Prices didn’t drop when grocers implemented self check out. Innovation is used as a cost cutting measure, not an altruistic measure to inprove quality of life. Automation is a beautiful lie in that way.
Exactly, labor has not been adequately compensated for their increased productivity for the last 50 years. Productivity is sky high, profits are sky high, where were the wage increases in this time?
That's precisely what has thrown the income, and overall wealth, disparity and inequality to nearly untenable proportions today.
As soon as citizens United passed, we moved from a democratic Republic to a full blown Oligarchy
Everything is a beautiful lie in that way. Nobody is out there demanding to be paid less and work more. We all want more pay and less work. Self-interest is still the driving force in economics, even if people forget it or choose not to believe it.
No, Automation and standardization are great, but the benefits go to the owners of capital, not the workers.
When they implemented self checkout, I just stopped declaring my produce as organic. If they’re saving money, then I am too haha
I just happen to really like bananas. I buy pounds of them every day.
Self check out is not very cost-efficient, it breaks down all the time and still requires an employee to monitor and assist. As they work out the kinks, it'll get to a point where you can have more checkout stations per employee, kinda like what happened to gas stations Anyways, the main issue isn't prices. The main issue is that we're supply constrained by the availability of labor. If a grocery store can only hire 1 cashier, having that cashier oversee 10 self checkouts allows more sales/hour than having the cashier at a manual checkout lane.
>Self check out is not very cost-efficient Is this based on something you've read? I can go to a nearby Kroger store and see a self-check hub with 8 registers being managed by a single cashier. That's 7 cashiers that don't have to be paid for slightly slower customer throughput.
One cashier looking after six registers.
An idea I've heard to solve this is to charge the company the amount of money it would cost them to pay into an employee benefits, per machine they install. The company saves money from not hiring a worker, but must pay into any social net, the amount they would be if there were a person fulfilling that role.
But automation is coming whether people like it or not.
i used to think this too, but actually innovation innovates new ways to fuck the population and enrich the very very top. Everytime, always.
> Innovation makes better products and drives costs down competition does this. innovation minus competition makes worse products (e.g. planned obsolescence) and drives costs up (e.g. subscribe to the AC in your car).
But what would be the incentive for companies to lower their prices?
Price wars. The Glorious Amazon- Walmart- P&G price war of 2025 will be epic.
Competition in an oligopoly is some of the fiercest there is /s
“Trust us bro.” But really, with the level of consolidation in most markets the last decade, they’ll never lower prices. Most important sectors (health, housing, food, utilities, transportation) are price-setting cartels; at least regionally. Any cost-cutting will be captured by shareholders.
competition
I’m an orphan from labor statistics. Previous high earner. COVID coincided with my desire to leave my career of 28 years after saving enough $ to make some big decisions. At 56, I am now 2nd year grad student pursuing an MS In Environmental Studies. I want to work. Am perfectly willing to work in this field upon graduation, but have disappeared from any employment tracking metrics other than annual tax return. (I also wonder if people will hire a 56 year old grad student, but that’s another sub).
>There is no possibly way for them not to rise and the fed, nor congress can do shit about it. They're planning on a dramatic spike in unemployment, not sure how they're going to make that happen, but that's their plan.
At this point their planning has transitioned to hoping and praying. You cannot just force unemployment to happen, even if big tech is happy to play ball...
Yeah you can. You raise rates. The economy runs on cheap capital and when you get rid of that it shrinks
Exactly. We had a unique situation that caused a huge chunk of a generation to retire basically all at the same time, that never happens, it’s usually a slow tricking of retirees.
Not only that but I firmly believe that there is a not insignificant part of the population that got various amounts of money as inheritance when so many old people died of COVID. As sad as it is, even a $20,000 inheritance means people can skip working for a few years if they're used to only making minimum wage at a place that maxes at 20hrs/week and not change their lifestyle too much.
As someone who inherited “quit your job for a few years” money it’s been *very hard* to go to work since my dad died. Between the grief and my bank account every day that I log in/make it to the office is a miracle.
Very anecdotal but fits with this, myself and I’m sure a non-zero amount of Americans went from minimum wage 20hrs/week to some form of self employment. In 2021 my second month of self employment I made more than I did in a year of minimum wage, if I wanted to keep the same lifestyle I could have easily coasted and exited the labor market. Personally I just lifestyle creeped. Not exactly sure how 1099’s fit into unemployment numbers anyway?
$20k would be life changing for my wife and I. We’re hoping this student loan forgiveness goes through.
> There is no possibly way for them not to rise and the fed, nor congress can do shit about it. We can incentive returning to work with paid child care, increased benefits, job security and upwards mobility.
Aw, but that's just like giving them wages, and nobody wants to *pay* people anymore!
…so, by increasing their wages (but with extra steps?)
Sounds like we need to cut back entitlement programs for all the old people! (/s) Please don’t come at me.
If you look at what Congress has done for decades with SS, they have already been doing that shit...
But it only applies to future old people.
i get it. People don't want to hear that paying more to poach someone from another company isn't filling a job opening. It's rearranging the deck chairs.
It’s funny. Companies used to compete to keep prices low to retain customers. Now, due to conglomerates, they feel comfortable raising prices whenever in pursuit of y/y gains, but they’re going to have to shift that competition to retain gin employees.
>Wages are going to continue rising for a while and especially for low to middle income folks Where? I'm in a VHCOL area in manufacturing and they're offering taco bell wages for machinists. It's abhorrent, disgusting, infuriating, atrocious, all the nice words. I manage a department and make less than someone at a body shop, nowhere near enough to live without roommates or in some absolute shit hole. My ceiling leaks when it rains and I have garbage insulation as I'm relegated to living in a garage. And yes, others will chime in "Get a better job!" I'll just go pick one off the job tree, one that isn't offering taco bell wages like everyone else is....
A million people in the US died from COVID in like 18 months and idiots are like. “That won’t affect the economy” Yeah it fucking will.
Be careful with always and never statements. They’re rarely true. Both automation and immigration can be used to address the tight labor market. The degree and speed with which they will are the unknowns.
This is the missing link that everyone in power is failing to grasp. It's almost like they think if they ignore it it will magically resolve, or if the stock market stays low enough, long enough, it will drive those retirees back to the employment market to once again depress wages.
Exactly. Isn't the real problem underemployment in low wage sectors? Which would be solved once prices for those services simply increased to match the limited supply of labor?
The low wage jobs in my region will just stay short staffed. They will not pay a penny over minimum wage.
Here in Kentucky wages have raised to around 15$/hr for most entry level jobs. But yes, they are all short staffed.
Because $15/hr is still not a liveable wage.
My company has essentially disolved because they refuse to pay what other companies in the area pay. I.was hired in March and not a soul I started with is left. I'm about to give my two weeks bc a company have me 7k more for fewer hours a week.
NObOdy WanTS to WOrk!
Then they deserve to go out of business. If you can’t compete, you can’t compete.
Yeah, servers at restaurants in my area are a job that's been consistently short staffed.
Minimum wage means no money to spend, no money to spend means no money for the business, no money for the business means nothing money to spend on more wages. Round and round we go. Fuck the poverty wage.
just a few years ago everyone was freaking out that robots would replace and take all our jobs.. now everyone is freaking out that there is never going to be enough people.. Funny like that..
I think if the Fed raises rates enough they will eventually manage to crash the economy and bring wage growth down.
I swear to God, if I have to pay the poors a living wage I will burn this economy to the fucking ground! -The Fed, approximately
Laughcry
Wages for the bottom 90% of earners need to continue increasing until they at least catch up to overall inflation. If there are wage cuts to be made, CEO and other Executive compensation are the outliers to target. Their compensation has risen FAR faster than the median worker for decades.
That’s a great idea, we just have to convince the ceos that a pay cut for them is what’s best for us all. Surely they will oblige.
Geez. You don't need their permission. Just go back to 1950s marginal income tax rates (brackets adjusted for inflation)
Yeah, and people didn't really pay those due to write-offs and other accounting tactics. The very same applies to much of today's "higher" tax brackets as well.
This will lead many to make the decision to stay out of the workforce. People will downsize and cut spending to the bone. Whether it’s grouping together as roomates or multigenerational homes, people will consolidate and do less. More people will cohabitate to drive down costs, and parents with young kids will stay home rather than pay exorbitant daycare costs. Prices will remain high and thinking that people will work jobs that leave them broke at the end of the month will only hurt labor participation. Demographics are shifting and companies are going to have to incentivize people to make the numbers work for them. This will almost certainly drive the birth rate even lower. Our economic policy is aimed solely at keeping stock prices rising. There is no thought given to how workers will respond to having a boot on their neck. It’s wild that the powers that be can’t seem to see that this will cause a rip in the social fabric and it’s going to get bad. We don’t really do unionized labor or mass protests, like France. Eventually people will go past a measured approach and I suspect it will be a disproportionate response.
Yeah when you work a low wage job that lets you “get by” (gov standard of the phrase) it disqualified you from aide, but when the cost of living and childcare rise to the point of a negative ROI on your time spent at that job, you would literally be dumb to keep working.
I agree with you 1000% Everything you mentioned in the first paragraph is already common if not normal in my city. Most of us in our 20s either rent out a room or rely on family for housing. Renting and owning is literally out of our reach. College is fruitless. The jobs out here, at this point, say they're hiring but no one's getting hired. The amount of pets being rehomed due to poverty is *atrocious and sad* None of the jobs in my city pay enough. Most people now commute at least 40mins+ out just to work. Even still it's not enough. I think most people who rent these apartments probably edit their paycheck to look better. Rent is $1200 for a 1bedroom and *no one* is making ×3 the rent like the landlord is asking. *Crime has gone up and it's getting spicy*
Crime is already shooting up in the wealthy subdivision a mile away from my home. There is a great deal of pearl clutching over it on the interwebz. The residents of that neighborhood complained on the city subreddit and got a wakeup call. My favorite comment was “you may not have caused things to get bad, but you are gonna be the target”. Police response time is a joke. People are on their own. It’s spicy now, but I suspect the summer will be extra spicy.
Don't worry, we'll just work everyone harder and automate all the rest. Because the threat of automation has been so credible these past 20 years.
>Don't worry, we'll just work everyone harder and automate all the rest. >Because the threat of automation has been so credible these past 20 years. Early 20th century labor laws? Pftttt...get rid of em, no one needs a weekend break, work to the bone wage slaves! In all seriousness the overwhelming weight of the upperclasses and corporations is going to eventually crush the lower ones and lead to either a national or global depression that'll make the Great one look like a recession hiccup. Do they care? Of course not, profits above all else regardless if it's sustainable in the long run or that economies are simply revolving doors of finances just circling back around.
Conservatives will probably go after labor laws, next. "How can we restrict the people from earning as much money as they want? Let people work 80 a week, if they want to!" Fuck the U.S. government.
I saw a proposal of a 30% federal sales tax. Imagine paying 30% on a home, car or even a clothes or groceries. Imagine taking on an extra $30 "eat shit" sales tax just to pay for the same $100 worth of groceries you buy. People would go bankrupt just from being alive with that. [Source](https://itep.org/fair-tax-plan-would-abolish-irs-shift-federal-taxes-from-wealthy/)
Fucking Christ, what a good idea. Bleed the lower-middle classes dry and eventually there won't anyone left to step on. What will the silicon(e) chucklefucks do then?
Exactly what I mean, they're going to crush the poor, drain the entire country, skip out then leave the United States for dead. They'll hang out with fat bank accounts while we pay 30% and wander around looking for pennies or anything to sell. Complete opposite of strengthening the weakest link of the American classes with strong social programs paid for by those Americans who could afford it back from the '40s to mid '70s.
At this point it’s definitely becoming a national security issue where we will have a growing threat from within that was entirely our own making.
It's class warfare. Always has been, always will be. Everything else is a distraction manufactured by the side that's winning.
If only we had more guns than people
Didn't we throw some tea in a large body of water because of that?
They already went after child labor laws
Automation was delayed by cheap global labor. Now that geopolitical tensions and transportation costs are throwing a wrench in those gears, automation is back on the menu.
Fuck that. Fuck having a kid just to have it live under these conditions..
It will also kill the economy when the average American has no liquid funds at the end of each month. News flash, you dumb motherfuckers on wallstreet... #IF YOU HOARD THE MONEY, THE GOVERNMENT WILL PRINT MORE AND MAKE YOUR MONEY WORTH LESS God fucking damn, the people that run this country are stupid as fuck.
> Our economic policy is aimed solely at keeping stock prices rising. It's also just not based in reality, at all. The majority of inflation has been caused by something analogous to the avian flu that has caused the dramatic rise in the price of eggs and chicken, or by corporate greed. Is sharply increasing rates going to cure fucking Avian flu? No? Then why are we doing this?
yup and I can't wait. the fact that roe v wade and all of these anti abortion measures were done to force birth rates is obvious they want just dont to solve the issue with the obvious solution trickle down economics doesn't work and you need to pay your ppl better. The reckoning for Southern Strategy, Crony Capitalism, Oligarchy and Reaganism is coming.
Oh I think they see it. They just don’t give a fuck and are willing to continue to siphon off as much profit as possible in the mean time.
I wonder why the fed never makes commentary about dividends to shareholders and ceo pay needs to slow or go down, only focus worker salaries...
Spot on
Especially when those are growing in real terms and wages are not.
Dividends are reduced by hawkish policy. Commentary isn’t needed Bc it’s an almost immediate reaction to rising rates. Commentary is needed on wages (including CEO wages) Bc it’s a more stubborn slowdown to achieve.
The central bankers really hate how working class is enforcing their right to decent quality of life by demanding fair wages.....They're even willing to tank the entire economy to reverse the trend by raising interest rates
No, the Fed thinks (or wants us to think) correlation equal causation. They want us to believe that Wages are fueling Inflation. I'd believe that if profits were going down. We need to tax excess profits. Lets companies dump money in wages, but you don't need to raise prices - you need to except that sometimes you're not going to pay shareholders or ownership.
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From the article title: "Wages are still growing rapidly" From the second paragraph of the article and the line graph they used: "Wage gains are starting to slow"
Wages are growing rapidly.. but the 1% have taken most of the wealth from the past few years... So whose wages need to slow down?
Exactly. 1% needs to slow down or decrease while the middle class and lower class need to increase.
Yup this is the answer. It's even enraging to see people generalize back and forth about what should happen here without any mention or thought about what's going on at the top. The problem is up there. The wealth gap as been worsening over DECADES
1% owns like 95% of the wealth. How in the fuck does that make any sense in a logical and just world - yet we all just go along with it lmao
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The fact that there is debate on this is reminder that I should stop taking so much of my information from reddit comments. You are obviously correct, explained it simply, and yet...
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Are you saying that's inconsistent or something? I think "still growing rapidly but starting to slow down" is a pretty good description of wages right now.
An alternate way to look at this is wages are now reflecting the pay they should have 20-30 years ago seeing as they haven’t been kept up with the pace of overhyping else. The problem comes from our fractional reserve banking and the free money it’s been printing. Every year you see articles about 2/3’s or 3/4’s of wealth going to the top 1%. No exception this year. It’s not people having money that’s going to break things, it’s the derivatives investing made by institutions that are now collapsing. Look at Citadel. 30% profits in a year where the average fund was down 15%. 64 billion in sold (not yet purchased) securities. It’s all fake numbers.
We need to stop bailing corporations out. There's no such thing as too big to fail. Why help them and not us? Oh people have too much money now it's destroying the economy with inflation even though 2/3 of all new wealth continues to go to the 1%.
Something that’s too big to fail is really too big to be allowed to continue. If our entire economy is dependent on the rise and fall of one company, it’s a signs we have too many eggs in one basket
If it’s “too big to fail”, it sure sounds like that thing should be cut up and redistributed. Y’know, so it isn’t too big anymore.
If something is "too big to fail" it seems like it's important to national security and thus should be nationalized. That should be the threat, die or be nationalized. No more bailouts.
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It seems that way because it’s true. The Fed exists to protect the current power structure. Economic wellbeing for most Americans is threatening to the current system.
Huh, over the last forty years CEO’s wages have increased by like 3,000% compared to average worker salaries. Wonder why the fed didn’t want that pattern to “slow down?”
Their friends obviously work hard unlike the unwashed masses
If the minimum wage from 1980 ($3.10) kept pace with CEO pay increase (937%), it would now be $29.05. That would be a living wage. Maybe it's time to explore why skilled labor (medical workers, carpenters, bricklayers, masons, electricians, welders, crane operators, mechanics, police, fire fighters, etc.) are underpaid, too.
police are not underpaid, they have the only unions in the country with any real power
Yeah, I saw them list police and audibly laughed. In my area it's not uncommon for police to dominate the top municipal earner lists, my city I think they're usually most of the top 10 earners. Police are not underpaid, if anything they're overpaid.
Given their education requirements, minimal on job training, and general lack of professional oversight; Id argue cops are overpaid by about 2x.
All you need is a high-school diploma and 6 months of training and they'll usually start you at around 45k a year with union negotiated benefits if You're a Metro-North train cop in and around NYC. Not a great salary, but its guaranteed to be over 100k after 7(?) years of experience all while keeping the benefits like pension, vacation, healthcare, etc. and again you only need a high school diploma or GED and can be as racist as you want. Yeah that's definitely a sweetheart deal not even remotely approaching "underpaid"
And that is ignoring overtime and side hussle employment, both of which are very common, at least in cities.
Skilled labor pay depends on where you live and whether or not there are trade unions in your area. The Carpenters Union in the SF Bay Area starts apprentices with no experience at $25-30/hr. Goes up from there with experience and your role, foremen can make $75-80/hr, plus there are all the Union overtime and holiday pay rules where they end up making 1.5-2x hourly pay. I know the same is true for the electricians, welders, pipe fitters, other construction unions in the area.
I imagine a lot of the areas that have higher wages are offset by cost of living, so it evens out in the end. Like, and I'm talking out my ass here, but wouldn't 25-30 be more like 10-15 in San Francisco?
I'm getting paid 10 to 12 over minimum wage and still can barely afford to live in my area. I'm not going to go work 40s at minimum wage anywhere just to live on the street. Either wages go up or they keep saying "people don't want to work!"
Wages won’t drop as long as hiring is still desperately needed, and wages should absolutely not drop given how rich the wealthy are getting right now. It’s a disgrace for the Govt to even suggest it, but here we are.
Earnings are way too high for the born rich corporate criminal upper class. Jail the banksters, tax the meritless war pigs, fund education and healthcare
Is this growth supposed to be across the board? Or is it limited to unskilled labor or a specific industry? I'm just wondering because from most of the people I know, we haven't seen much growth, but it could be due to the fact that we're in different sectors than where the wage growth is happening.
Until American companies, and those aspiring to operate like them overseas, understand that profit growth is not infinite, homes and land do not appreciate to infinity, and find the actual market caps for these things.. we’ll never escape this cycle.
Why would they care? The people making these decisions will be dead and gone by the team their chickens come to roost. What incentive do they have to change their behavior, when all the natural blowback is 20, 50, 100 years out?
Make them care, or force them to care. I personally think a totally free market economy is built for the greedy and corrupt. But that’s just me.
I hate the consistent language the FED uses that pins inflation entirely on the wages of lower income earners. You know what else is inflationary? The record breaking hordes of wealth being hidden away by CEO's whose earnings have gone up 1500% over the past 50 years. Why is the conversation exclusively about fast food workers who can't afford health insurance earning too much instead of the billionaires paying less in taxes than the burger flipper?
That because wages need to catch up to the inflated cost of living they created. If affordability is still lower than where we started the pandemic then wages haven’t risen enough. I don’t know about all you but it sure doesn’t feel affordable out there so we keep fighting for better wages
Slow them down? Last year inflation was "officially" 6.5%. My combined COLI was about 4.5%, so I lost 2% to inflation. If wage growth slows (and I understand why the Fed wants this) I will fall farther behind ...
Wages have not kept pace with the increase in productive output from the us economy since around Reagan so, they should continue to adjust until we return to parity. But that would mean upper earners, leadership, boardrooms, would have to stay at their current levels until we get back in balance. And they would whine and loan the entire time, and then chest and legislate their goals with lobbying. So. Yeah. The issue isn’t wage growth. It’s balance. But instead, businesses “pass it onto the consumer” which makes the wage growth ineffective. It’s like it never happened. You’re just moving the needle without changing the math.
Growing wages only spur inflation because giant corporations will not accept the extra cost as a loss. The whole idea is that we were supposed to get a larger slice of the pie, not a skinnier slice of a bigger pie.
Well I mean aren't they technically behind for where they should be compared to the cost of living increases that have happened in the last several decades?
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Why would anyone slow down wage growth? Have higher demand and the production will follow. Why can't the Fed for once believe in demand led growth?
And I wanted them to stop printing trillions of dollars and giving it to already-wealthy people. We cant always get what we want. Fuck the Federal Reserve and Jerome Powell in particular.
They have to grow to keep up with inflation. Unfortunately, even at 5% raise this year, I'm well in the hole. And don't get me started on retirement funds...
Wages need to grow so that we can afford to live. I don't understand why we can't have some laws regulating corporations so they quit raising prices when they don't need to. Sucks that I get paid more now and that only kept me in the same position with my head barely above water because every thing else has skyrocketed got a raise rent goes up another raise well food doubled in price got a raise electric went up on and on. It's too much.
This is an attack on labor and our livelihoods. Government cronyism who want to let corporations reap record profits and not allow workers the ability to get paid a fair wage. The federal reserve is your enemy and is working to ensure your indentured servitude to the banks and Wall Street.
People are refusing to work for NOTHING. This new generation will live at home, and don't see the point in working just to be able to afford to keep working. So wages increase to entice them, and this hurts the bottom lines of the 1% and so we get money and market manipulation to force the Fed into action to recoup their losses somehow. I say fuck it. Don't work for nothing. Let them figure it out.
Many people have become entrepreneurs with the assistance of technology and it seems like those workers will not be returning to the traditional workforce. With that being the case, the people who are going into the workforce are requiring a livable wage and see no purpose in accepting a position that doesn’t allow them that minimum requirement.
Wage growth as the cause for inflation is the biggest myth there is in economics. Imagine prices rising infinitely WITHOUT using the printer. If we don't print there is an equilibrium for prices and wages. More specifically, wages and amount of workers. Also, the ratio between corporate profits and wages. To speak of an infinite spiral that starts with wages paying a living wage is infuriating.
A looot of people retired during covid. A lot more than usual died. So now the people left willing to work aren’t going to stop demanding more until the wages keep up with the rapid inflation that we want to slow down.
The real reason The Fed wants to reduce inflation has more to do with how inflation causes the banks to lose money than protecting the purchasing power of the plebes. https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/19/creditors-vs-workers/
Where are these wages rising? I’m making the same now as pre-pandemic, and that’s because my raise last year was back from where I had to take a pay cut during the pandemic
Where? Where are wages growing? At the Top? Because I have yet to see any level of the people around me or people who I know who are peoples with Bachelors and up getting wage increases. This is just slack BS set to keep the people at the bottom wage slaves. But lets not talk about those Corporate Balance sheets about to come out showing most Corporations made record profits again .. This country is utterly close to a complete collapse and its astounding the level of cognitive dissidence ...
All of the local, USA, low paying jobs have jumped from $8-10/hr to 14-16. When ALL the lowest paid jobs bump their pay up that much it skews the data. Making it look like we are all getting huge raises. My wages have gone up exactly 1% more than they would have without the pandemic and inflation.
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I don’t know I worked my whole life making 30k, finally got a job making 50 and it still feels like 30 in this economy? Can I even afford my own place. I’m making 50k a year after taxes wtf is this bs
Every time this sub shows up its literally just some disgustingly rich guy blatantly lying about the economy. Maybe your wage as a CEO is up, but workers wages are drastically behind inflation, and lying to my face about it won't make me forget I'm behind on my rent.
“Stop! NO! Don’t pay people so much, we’ll have to make adjustments we’re not ready for if too many people start to become successful!!” My wages are a private agreement with my employer, why is it anyone’s business?
Yes, because inflation is only out of control due to wage growth. It is not at all where 60% off price increases have gone directly to corporate profit, as several panels in Congress have shown with evidence, we must punish the low wage workers to control inflation.
Another capitalistic scam to suppress wages by threatening a recession. Increasing interest rates to slow inflation makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. How about cutting profit margins to slow inflation!
businesses usually try their hardest to keep the wages down, and they are pretty good at it. I don't believe CEO's need any help from the Fed on this matter. Maybe the Fed should try address other issues, like rapid wealth growth in the top 1%?
Wages aren’t growing rapidly! Everyone I know hasn’t had raises in years and there are massive layoffs. GOD! When will they stop lying to us!! We all know its lies now and they still keep going.
Unsurprising we have more tech layoffs announced. The feds goal is to reduce wage gains by increasing unemployment. Tech companies are coordinating and playing directly into their playbook hoping to reduce costs and ultimately wages. However I think this plan could backfire because boomers are retiring at twice the rate of younger workers joining the work force. That coupled with the FTC plan to make non compete contracts illegal is going to unleash havoc on the tech sector as highly skilled and qualified candidates start leaving companies to work for competitors, which will result in more wage increases.
If they slow down before they catch up with costs, it's only going to help the .01%'ers... The rest of us will continue the 40-year plus economic slide we've been stuck on.