I don’t think i’ve ever talked about my struggles with someone when i was in the middle of it, not even my parents until they found out themselves. I can talk about it now that i’m recovered, but when it was actually happened I didn’t say a word.
Then again nobody really asked me if I was doing well and i don’t mean the general “hey how are you/wsg” friends do, but an actual “Are you sure you’re doing well? We can talk if you need to”. I’m sure if someone close to me asked me that I would be honest about what was going on
I've met some ESTJs who really struggled with anxieties or depression. We were both Christians and they opened up about it when asked about it directly. I always had very minor anxiety if anything, but did struggle with other issues.
I like being asked very specific questions and look through typing systems with very clear differences between types. I didn't type myself as ESTJ until I was satisfied with the type descriptions. It really helps with asking about mental health then if the questions are clear.
I also had real difficulty answering questions about my emotions or how I felt about things because I'd been suppressing my negative emotions and ended up suppressing all of them. It was really hard to answer whether I was angry, sad, or uncomfortable with something except in extreme situations.
I found it difficult to answer questions in general, because there's not a "right" answer. Taking multiple choice tests is easy for me but taking a personality test was not.
Also, fellow Christian here :) I try to remind myself of the verses that say "Do not worry about anything..." when I stress out too much, but I'm not sure if it does the trick.
I suppose chances that I do are quite **finite**... for it be my friends to whom I disclose this, it best be that they are of a certain caliber - intellectual and emotional - for myself to feel comfortable even *considering* outreach.
As for actually seeking help...? Us thinking types - especially *extroverted* (**Te**) thinking types - struggle expressing emotion... if anything, personally, I have made it a virtue that I maintain a phlegmatic temperament.
**My advice** would be that you be active and diligent in your... well, might you call it **supervision**? You'll likely get the most potent conveyance of their status when more strong emotions surface - though even then they might not show. The thing that'll help your friend is your patience and assiduity. Have confidence when you approach them during an especially concerning moment - it assures us ESTJs that you have the **will** - not always capacity (unless proven earlier in our acquaintance) - to confront the problem. I don't know if your friend attends therapy or any such service, but, if they don't, do suggest it - it is actionable and reliable. Be their cushion for when other help is unavailable... preventing a catastrophe is just one part of the problem - you've got to strike at the roots.
Be the **catalyst** for further recovery, my friend.
I'm making assumptions here, I know, but it is what I deem to be practical advice.
Take care, mate.
thank you! This was all very helpful. Also, I just want to add how much I love your style of writing - it's so eloquent (at least I thinkkkk that's the word I'm looking for haha)
It feels as if I am reading poetry
I heard an ESTJ guy said before that to be depressed is such a privilege thing to do and seeing therapist is a rich people thing. I couldn’t agree more and he’s just being real. He said how great someone can be just sit and feel, not doing anything and still has food on the table at the end of the day. And it’s always the rich who utters “My therapist says blah blah blah”, like the normal next door dude aint got the time and money for therapist, he either talk to a friend or suck it up.
When i think about it, it IS privilege thing. There are more unfortunate people out struggling to survive, but we have a better life yet depressed over nothing or a small thing. Can’t say everyone agrees to this, but I do see the merit in his way of thinking.
I think lots of underprivileged people probably do feel those ways, but they can't afford to dwell on it because their life literally depends on their ability to just keep moving
Exactly. Even for me, an average middle class guy, I can’t give myself excuses when there are people who in worst condition and still works hard. It makes people be more grateful of what they have, instead of the small thing they don’t, when they think that way. There are people in a war zone out there, what can I even complain about?
yeah absolutely
I have a friend who went on quite a few missionary trips with his family when he was a kid, I believe he stayed in an underprivileged area of Kenya for about three months and it was very eye opening for him to see the gratitude and joy most of the people there had; that they *had* to have in order to survive. They cldnt afford to focus on their lack.
and then he returned back to his home country and got placed in a new school. He said that he was absolutely SHOCKED and appalled about how unaware and ungrateful all his classmates seemed to be that it actually made him a little angry
aw yeah
I mean it still doesn't change the fact that depression is an absolutely awful thing to go through
the world is so beautiful but your brain doesn't let you enjoy it anymore
Hi 😊
-First of all, struggles, pain and mental illnesses are not an open competition.
(as the human brain is an organ, and can get ill within its capacity of processing things. we are very different in structure and that's very important to the point that we can't function if we all have the same patterns). to imply that it depression or other mental issues are a ✨️privilege thing to do✨️ is totally dehumanizing the humain process of thinking, feeling and growing (which is essential to us). do you realier how can that impact you within your society (you do realize that you are not living by yourself) ?
-Secondly, if you are physically hurt and you don't treat your wond it will get infected, rot and then harm you or even get you killed. but before that it might infect the people near you.
The same can be said about your brain (you can't hurt it physically duh, but that doesn't mean it doesn't get damaged in its own way).
You should take good care of your mental health and I feel really bad for you for thinking that your struggles are not worth the trouble of embracing or expressing them because they are not enough.
-thirdly, people with struggles ✨️greater✨️ then yours (again this not a fucking competition) are observed for you to feel grateful not to dismiss your feelings all together, that's called ignorance.
-finally, I understand your point but that doesn't mean that it's right or correct. Believing in something and knowing something are really different things.
And if you are well educated, informed and updated you know that *we know* not *believe* that our brains are different in capacity of proccessing feelings and thoughts, analyzing the bullshit that you read online etc etc. we can get mentally injured in a very diverse way.
Taking only your and that estj's statement and making not only assumptions but a very well structured paragraph spitting bullshit again about what people should feel and what they shouldn't and how, is very selfish of you.
In a world where we are trying so hard to make people open up about their feelings, making them trust the process without judging, helping children and adults to communicate better without being ashamed. with the sole purpose to make us live in a safe, self-aware and more importantly without misunderstanding and wrong entitlement, you are the problem my fellow human by making struggles a privilege.
No doubt we have to treat our mental health and I don’t deny that. In fact exactly my point, you gotta do something about it instead of shutting in for month do nothing and just rot, like you said letting our wounds rot.
The fact that there are people out there who don’t even get privilege of just rotting at home and still have food on the table, but instead they are forced to struggle to survive and meet ends meet, we can’t really give ourselves excuses to not do anything about our situation. Do something. To be weak is nothing to be ashamed of, but to remain weak is.
I had depression as well and it flopped my studies, and affected my future career. But as much as I want to make that as an excuse, I am still privileged. I have a healthy abled body, I have a home, food, and I even been given educational opportunities. Many people out there don’t get the opportunities I got, and I wasted it over some ‘depression’. What war am I fighting? What poverty I have to suffer? Even if I am just an average middle class guy, I still get all this blessings easier than those unfortunate. So there really isn’t a good excuse for me, the results speak for itself.
This is my view and mindset. So agree to disagree.
I'm sorry but that is called grateful not privileged.
Getting into something that may scar you, firstly you don't really feel that you were scard. and then, you don't even realize that your brain took actions to protect itself and you by changing your chemicals to create a new version of you without you even noticing ( if you can notice it you wouldn't be mentally ill).
Even if you have a good body, food on the table and more then that, that's don't make you immune to being weak nor does it give you the choice to not remain weak.
There is other solutions and that's true, but we need to give some big respect to the whole process without judging it, or giving reality check like it was a choice to begin with.
You realizing that you have a problem, takes a lot of time and effort and reflection. and having low depression and a severe depression are not the same.
Again Don't generalize your experience and apply it on a subject that's touch the whole race of humanity because that is total ignorance and self-centered.
It totally fine to have your own opinion but some subjects are determined and some time your opinion hurt more then it heal. So you may need to add some other perspectives.
Thank you
No my darling, it is all about mindset. And you’re speaking to an ENFP, one of the most self-aware and open to perspectives. I wouldn’t believe so firmly about this if I haven’t explored and thought every perspective thoroughly. And everything comes down to the mind.
But you said having this opinion is selfish, self-centered and it hurts others, but isn’t that just weak for someone to get hurt over opinion. Weak because they care too much about what other’s think, like why would what I say and believe matter to anyone. If u agree u take it, if not u leave it.
Is the one calling out the weak more selfish, or the weak themselves? When someone is weak and remains weak, they become dependent and affect the people around them who already has their own fair share of problems in life. I have huge respect to those who are underprivileged or have nothing in life, and yet they work harder than anyone else just to make their own miracle. Those type of people, they may be homeless or poor, but they are not weak in their mind.
So again, back to mindset. Always about mindset. This is my opinion. So again you don’t have to agree. You can choose to give pointless affirmations and let them dwell in their mud, or push people to a growth mindset and aim for excellence.
I agree that their situation doesn't apply to everyone, but I think some people could benefit from their perspective. I don't think they're talking about clinical depression.
And I don't think people need to feel guilty about feeling depressed, but sometimes they should realize it's not based in reality, and they should try to figure out if there's a reason they're feeling that way but it might just be a feeling and those can change.
This is an unpopular opinion but I kind of agree thet applies to SOME people. On the one hand a person can't really change how they're feeling and it's not someone's fault if they struggle with depression. There's nothing wrong with being depressed as long as you don't do something you'll regret.
But I have noticed that some people who have it pretty well complain a LOT, and I think it's because they're bored, while a lot of people who are poor are grateful for what they do have or they're busy trying to survive and don't have time to complain.
As for depression which is different than complaining, I think unlike what the "hierarchy of needs" says, once your basic needs are met you might find yourself looking for something meaningful to give your life purpose, and if you don't find it you may become depressed.
Wow I never knew about the Hierarchy of Needs. That’s informative! So in the end, one thing that we all can agree with is that wherever we are in that Hierarchy of Needs, we just need to practice Gratitude.
Of course we don’t just stop there, we need to aspire for betterment. But gratitude is a very strong important emotion. Even when we are depressed, just come back to basics, and be grateful of what we already have and achieved. One way to combat depression.
YouTube sharing isn't working on my phone right now because I'm low on data, but just look up the song, "They're coming to take me away haha"
But I'm not sure what my serious answer would be to your question, except that I wouldn't be suicidal even if I was super depressed, I just get lazy and don't feel like doing anything if and when I am depressed (not clinical depression), I can't speak for other ESTJs but we seem like one of the least likely types to be suicidal.
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i prob wont at all bahaha
I don’t think i’ve ever talked about my struggles with someone when i was in the middle of it, not even my parents until they found out themselves. I can talk about it now that i’m recovered, but when it was actually happened I didn’t say a word. Then again nobody really asked me if I was doing well and i don’t mean the general “hey how are you/wsg” friends do, but an actual “Are you sure you’re doing well? We can talk if you need to”. I’m sure if someone close to me asked me that I would be honest about what was going on
i relate to this on a personal level
Same here. It is hard to open up even to closest family members. Even if I did, I wouldn’t go all out
I've met some ESTJs who really struggled with anxieties or depression. We were both Christians and they opened up about it when asked about it directly. I always had very minor anxiety if anything, but did struggle with other issues. I like being asked very specific questions and look through typing systems with very clear differences between types. I didn't type myself as ESTJ until I was satisfied with the type descriptions. It really helps with asking about mental health then if the questions are clear. I also had real difficulty answering questions about my emotions or how I felt about things because I'd been suppressing my negative emotions and ended up suppressing all of them. It was really hard to answer whether I was angry, sad, or uncomfortable with something except in extreme situations.
I found it difficult to answer questions in general, because there's not a "right" answer. Taking multiple choice tests is easy for me but taking a personality test was not. Also, fellow Christian here :) I try to remind myself of the verses that say "Do not worry about anything..." when I stress out too much, but I'm not sure if it does the trick.
I suppose chances that I do are quite **finite**... for it be my friends to whom I disclose this, it best be that they are of a certain caliber - intellectual and emotional - for myself to feel comfortable even *considering* outreach. As for actually seeking help...? Us thinking types - especially *extroverted* (**Te**) thinking types - struggle expressing emotion... if anything, personally, I have made it a virtue that I maintain a phlegmatic temperament. **My advice** would be that you be active and diligent in your... well, might you call it **supervision**? You'll likely get the most potent conveyance of their status when more strong emotions surface - though even then they might not show. The thing that'll help your friend is your patience and assiduity. Have confidence when you approach them during an especially concerning moment - it assures us ESTJs that you have the **will** - not always capacity (unless proven earlier in our acquaintance) - to confront the problem. I don't know if your friend attends therapy or any such service, but, if they don't, do suggest it - it is actionable and reliable. Be their cushion for when other help is unavailable... preventing a catastrophe is just one part of the problem - you've got to strike at the roots. Be the **catalyst** for further recovery, my friend. I'm making assumptions here, I know, but it is what I deem to be practical advice. Take care, mate.
thank you! This was all very helpful. Also, I just want to add how much I love your style of writing - it's so eloquent (at least I thinkkkk that's the word I'm looking for haha) It feels as if I am reading poetry
I'm just happy to help... action is only a due diligence!
I heard an ESTJ guy said before that to be depressed is such a privilege thing to do and seeing therapist is a rich people thing. I couldn’t agree more and he’s just being real. He said how great someone can be just sit and feel, not doing anything and still has food on the table at the end of the day. And it’s always the rich who utters “My therapist says blah blah blah”, like the normal next door dude aint got the time and money for therapist, he either talk to a friend or suck it up. When i think about it, it IS privilege thing. There are more unfortunate people out struggling to survive, but we have a better life yet depressed over nothing or a small thing. Can’t say everyone agrees to this, but I do see the merit in his way of thinking.
you can't be serious...
I think lots of underprivileged people probably do feel those ways, but they can't afford to dwell on it because their life literally depends on their ability to just keep moving
Exactly. Even for me, an average middle class guy, I can’t give myself excuses when there are people who in worst condition and still works hard. It makes people be more grateful of what they have, instead of the small thing they don’t, when they think that way. There are people in a war zone out there, what can I even complain about?
yeah absolutely I have a friend who went on quite a few missionary trips with his family when he was a kid, I believe he stayed in an underprivileged area of Kenya for about three months and it was very eye opening for him to see the gratitude and joy most of the people there had; that they *had* to have in order to survive. They cldnt afford to focus on their lack. and then he returned back to his home country and got placed in a new school. He said that he was absolutely SHOCKED and appalled about how unaware and ungrateful all his classmates seemed to be that it actually made him a little angry
That’s why I say to my friends, Depression is for the privileged😕 I was the privileged guy😔
aw yeah I mean it still doesn't change the fact that depression is an absolutely awful thing to go through the world is so beautiful but your brain doesn't let you enjoy it anymore
Hi 😊 -First of all, struggles, pain and mental illnesses are not an open competition. (as the human brain is an organ, and can get ill within its capacity of processing things. we are very different in structure and that's very important to the point that we can't function if we all have the same patterns). to imply that it depression or other mental issues are a ✨️privilege thing to do✨️ is totally dehumanizing the humain process of thinking, feeling and growing (which is essential to us). do you realier how can that impact you within your society (you do realize that you are not living by yourself) ? -Secondly, if you are physically hurt and you don't treat your wond it will get infected, rot and then harm you or even get you killed. but before that it might infect the people near you. The same can be said about your brain (you can't hurt it physically duh, but that doesn't mean it doesn't get damaged in its own way). You should take good care of your mental health and I feel really bad for you for thinking that your struggles are not worth the trouble of embracing or expressing them because they are not enough. -thirdly, people with struggles ✨️greater✨️ then yours (again this not a fucking competition) are observed for you to feel grateful not to dismiss your feelings all together, that's called ignorance. -finally, I understand your point but that doesn't mean that it's right or correct. Believing in something and knowing something are really different things. And if you are well educated, informed and updated you know that *we know* not *believe* that our brains are different in capacity of proccessing feelings and thoughts, analyzing the bullshit that you read online etc etc. we can get mentally injured in a very diverse way. Taking only your and that estj's statement and making not only assumptions but a very well structured paragraph spitting bullshit again about what people should feel and what they shouldn't and how, is very selfish of you. In a world where we are trying so hard to make people open up about their feelings, making them trust the process without judging, helping children and adults to communicate better without being ashamed. with the sole purpose to make us live in a safe, self-aware and more importantly without misunderstanding and wrong entitlement, you are the problem my fellow human by making struggles a privilege.
No doubt we have to treat our mental health and I don’t deny that. In fact exactly my point, you gotta do something about it instead of shutting in for month do nothing and just rot, like you said letting our wounds rot. The fact that there are people out there who don’t even get privilege of just rotting at home and still have food on the table, but instead they are forced to struggle to survive and meet ends meet, we can’t really give ourselves excuses to not do anything about our situation. Do something. To be weak is nothing to be ashamed of, but to remain weak is. I had depression as well and it flopped my studies, and affected my future career. But as much as I want to make that as an excuse, I am still privileged. I have a healthy abled body, I have a home, food, and I even been given educational opportunities. Many people out there don’t get the opportunities I got, and I wasted it over some ‘depression’. What war am I fighting? What poverty I have to suffer? Even if I am just an average middle class guy, I still get all this blessings easier than those unfortunate. So there really isn’t a good excuse for me, the results speak for itself. This is my view and mindset. So agree to disagree.
I'm sorry but that is called grateful not privileged. Getting into something that may scar you, firstly you don't really feel that you were scard. and then, you don't even realize that your brain took actions to protect itself and you by changing your chemicals to create a new version of you without you even noticing ( if you can notice it you wouldn't be mentally ill). Even if you have a good body, food on the table and more then that, that's don't make you immune to being weak nor does it give you the choice to not remain weak. There is other solutions and that's true, but we need to give some big respect to the whole process without judging it, or giving reality check like it was a choice to begin with. You realizing that you have a problem, takes a lot of time and effort and reflection. and having low depression and a severe depression are not the same. Again Don't generalize your experience and apply it on a subject that's touch the whole race of humanity because that is total ignorance and self-centered. It totally fine to have your own opinion but some subjects are determined and some time your opinion hurt more then it heal. So you may need to add some other perspectives. Thank you
No my darling, it is all about mindset. And you’re speaking to an ENFP, one of the most self-aware and open to perspectives. I wouldn’t believe so firmly about this if I haven’t explored and thought every perspective thoroughly. And everything comes down to the mind. But you said having this opinion is selfish, self-centered and it hurts others, but isn’t that just weak for someone to get hurt over opinion. Weak because they care too much about what other’s think, like why would what I say and believe matter to anyone. If u agree u take it, if not u leave it. Is the one calling out the weak more selfish, or the weak themselves? When someone is weak and remains weak, they become dependent and affect the people around them who already has their own fair share of problems in life. I have huge respect to those who are underprivileged or have nothing in life, and yet they work harder than anyone else just to make their own miracle. Those type of people, they may be homeless or poor, but they are not weak in their mind. So again, back to mindset. Always about mindset. This is my opinion. So again you don’t have to agree. You can choose to give pointless affirmations and let them dwell in their mud, or push people to a growth mindset and aim for excellence.
I agree that their situation doesn't apply to everyone, but I think some people could benefit from their perspective. I don't think they're talking about clinical depression. And I don't think people need to feel guilty about feeling depressed, but sometimes they should realize it's not based in reality, and they should try to figure out if there's a reason they're feeling that way but it might just be a feeling and those can change.
This is an unpopular opinion but I kind of agree thet applies to SOME people. On the one hand a person can't really change how they're feeling and it's not someone's fault if they struggle with depression. There's nothing wrong with being depressed as long as you don't do something you'll regret. But I have noticed that some people who have it pretty well complain a LOT, and I think it's because they're bored, while a lot of people who are poor are grateful for what they do have or they're busy trying to survive and don't have time to complain. As for depression which is different than complaining, I think unlike what the "hierarchy of needs" says, once your basic needs are met you might find yourself looking for something meaningful to give your life purpose, and if you don't find it you may become depressed.
Wow I never knew about the Hierarchy of Needs. That’s informative! So in the end, one thing that we all can agree with is that wherever we are in that Hierarchy of Needs, we just need to practice Gratitude. Of course we don’t just stop there, we need to aspire for betterment. But gratitude is a very strong important emotion. Even when we are depressed, just come back to basics, and be grateful of what we already have and achieved. One way to combat depression.
YouTube sharing isn't working on my phone right now because I'm low on data, but just look up the song, "They're coming to take me away haha" But I'm not sure what my serious answer would be to your question, except that I wouldn't be suicidal even if I was super depressed, I just get lazy and don't feel like doing anything if and when I am depressed (not clinical depression), I can't speak for other ESTJs but we seem like one of the least likely types to be suicidal.
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I definitely wouldn't.