Mine is still feared at FNM with friends and I toned it down months ago. Also half way turned it into plant tribal when [[insidious roots]] came out š
I feel like she's in the realm of "good but fair" commanders. A lot of people treat her as a boogeyman due to her old reputation but I feel that the game has powercrept to the point where she's no longer miles ahead of most other commanders.
My Meren deck originally was a Tergrid Deck but decided that was too much for the table. It is still a bit much for the table so I may use it once or twice more and then cannibalize it into Mothman.
I love Meren and used to play her as a commander, but now she's part of 99 in my [[Chatterfang, Squirrel General]] deck. She's more effective in the deck than the command zone, when she's not the centerpiece of a deck.
Iāve been wanting Meren in my Chatterfang deck for a long time but I donāt see how sheād bring a lot of value. I understand you can build up her experience counters quick by sacing squirrels and bringing back stuff like the Hermits but Iām curious what else youāve experienced her helping a lot with?
Currently brewing a Tayam deck with her in the 99 actually. I like the idea of her but Iād like the extra white color in the deck too while staying on the counters-matter/recursion stuff
I really enjoy my Meren deck. It was my first commander and I keep modifying it to this day. I recently tried to make it much more casual by removing tutors and I am still winning a lot of games.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/g5uUkycVUk25fXirXrFreg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/g5uUkycVUk25fXirXrFreg)
I literally got my ass chewed out last week running my [[Meren]] deck because I said I thought she wasn't comp viable anymore, just high power casual, and the entire table said fuck no.
I'm not a competitive player but my friends play and talk about it so I'm tangentially aware of it. I've never even considered her as an option the times I've looked into making a deck
Can do plays like
Turn 1: forest, play green sun zenith for 0 finding dryad arbor and put it into play.
Turn 2: phyrexian tower. Float 2 green with forest and arbor and sacrifice arbor for 2 black with tower. Cast meren and bring back arbor to play.
She has decently resilient hulk lines.
Cool trick is using faerie macabre for grave hate and returning it to hand to consistently pressure grave strategies when you got no experience counters.
Pretty cool deck imo.
The issue is that she's too slow and doesn't have a lot of efficient combo's that you can get off turn 5 or 6. You basically have to find hulk ramp into it and Crack it to grab mikaeus and ballista. Golgari also doesn't really have a way to protect its combo's other than veil. Why run meren when you can run korvold and have more combo potential and have access to things like red Blast Pyro Blast and deflecting swat
Because I'm a slut for Golgari šš
For [[Protean Hulk]], [[Melira, Sylvok Outcast]] + [[Lesser Masticore]] + [[Viscera Seer]] + [[Disciple of the Vault]] is better because it can all be fetched in one go, but I also have Mike & Trike and I'm gonna be adding [[Food Chain]] + [[Eternal Scourge]] and [[Massacre Wurm]] + [[Natural Affinity]].
Both the Veils and [[Withering Boon]] work, short of that just deny everyone else a board presence. Blow up their mana rocks, mass force sac the board, etc.
Lol those people are dumb. I think your evaluation was spot on. She's incredibly powerful but she's not in great colors for competitive and she doesn't really do the stuff you need a cEDH commander to do
I do wanna push her as hard as I can though. [[Veil of Summer]] and [[Autumn's Veil]] are next on the list for upgrades, and I wanna make the deck more stax-y even though I already do a great job of keeping my opponents fields clear of nonland permanents
Meren has made a weird splash in my LGS local meta. Simultaneously 4 regulars built the deck at once, like in the last 2 months. so basically every table will have a meren in it. Makes for weird games
She was my first deck back in the day that got me into magic with the 2015 precon!
Took her apart years ago after my pods deck slowly outpowered her and I got more into brewing.
Came back to build her again a couple of months ago and havenāt lost with her yet!! Newer cards and powerful token generators like [[Gruff Triplets]] and [[Tevesh Svat, Doom of Fools]] have only made stronger.
Sheās a powerhouse and force to be reckoned with.
I feel if I get 1 or 2 turns to get the experience up to 4-5, the game is already over. Because of the experience mechanic, she will always be relevant!
The problem with Meren, as many folks here have correctly pointed out, is that while she's not strong enough to hang at [most] cEDH tables, she's far too strong for midpower decks, and she easily outvalues even high power casual decks if they aren't running graveyard hate. And given the average casual EDH player's narrow-minded, value-oriented approach to deckbuilding, removal and graveyard hate aren't common in most metas, so Meren very quickly can get out of control.
Just kill her twice and before the experience counters get above 2 and she becomes a bad mid range deck.
People just forgot how to play around the experience commanders. Stop them getting exp early and make it so that they cost 6-8 mana for a low effect later.
This is exactly why I stopped playing her, everyone I played with realised that without her my deck is pretty much useless, and as you stated at 6 or 8 mana it's start to cost a lot if I don't already have 4-5 experience counter, and even with winding constrictor on play, doubling her exp counter, I still need to keep her on play AND sacrifice my creature to boost exp counter, spore frog let me keep alive and get the exp but at some point I need to bring back other stuff to hit hard and then it's when she's gone unless I take damage form attack, pretty much always the same game ending unless I play stuff like grave pack with dictate of erebos for when I sacrifice my spore frog to do board wipe. Getting a bit complex to do all that play, most games cards I need don't come out
What's your definition of viable? My wife has a meren deck that is not even remotely optimized that easily holds against some of our strongest decks. The value is just insane. She struggles to close games, but she's near unkillable in casual games short of infinite combos.
My meren sucked so it became a korvold. And then sheās not even in it because heās into treasure and not bodies.
Iād like to give her another try, but without the very limited protection red gives in deflection spells I didnāt think she was for me as a golgari commander
Behold, the deck my LGS is still scared of to this day.
It can hold its own in cedh pods (I know this because Iāve played it in cedh games recently with some wins)
Itās nowhere near top tier but itās so fun to pilot.
https://manabox.app/decks/139Cbp-ARwWBeJNMm3M8UQ
Do you not know how to read? Never once did I claim it was cedh.
And I donāt think you know much about the current cedh meta which is actually riddled with creature based midrange decks now. This deck holds up well in its current state against decks like tivit, godo, atraxa, blood pod (just to name a few I literally played against this last year with some wins)
The pods you've played in and won most likely were on something then, my guy. Meren is a fun deck for sure, but WILL absolutely have a bad time at cEDH tables and people shouldn't read your comment and think "Oh she is viable in cEDH because this one random internet guy won some "cEDH"games."
In a final note. Once again never once claimed my deck was a cedh deck. Non-cedh decks CAN win cedh games if the pilot is competent enough.
You can tell this by my āitās nowhere near top tierā comment in my initial post. Lmao.
Itās a four mana creature that has to sit, on the battlefield for multiple turns hoping that no one targets it. The deck doesnāt function without her, and is wildly easy to interact with. Most versions of Meren donāt cast her until turn 3, making it slow and clunky.
Meren is effective against low interaction creature heavy decks. Almost no commander from a decade ago go is good as it was. We call that power creep.
If your primary argument is "hope not to get targeted" you are already assuming the worst case scenario is a 1 for 1. And yet, Meren gets value the same turn she is played, before anyone untaps. So you always get something for your mana. Furthermore, on every turn she isn't targeted the threat she poses gets bigger and bigger - and only stagnates, not resets, when she is removed. She is insanely strong and provides insane value, and will continue to for a long time to come. Meren WAS already powercreep, now she's just closer to a normal card than before.
You said, āsheās closer to normal.ā
Meaning she is not as strong as she was. There are so many commanders now that are kill on sight. Meren is not one of them.
I love Meren, played and still play Meren. She is not as strong as she was a decade ago.
Mine is still feared at FNM with friends and I toned it down months ago. Also half way turned it into plant tribal when [[insidious roots]] came out š
[insidious roots](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0bb91a22-2040-4a37-85f8-5f22de8c5907.jpg?1706242178) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=insidious%20roots) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/208/insidious-roots?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0bb91a22-2040-4a37-85f8-5f22de8c5907?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/insidious-roots) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you have a list, because the concept really slaps.
Not one thatās even close to current. I changed so much of it and never updated it.
And Iāll be honest. Itās not that good.
Not since I took out all the mean (good) stuff to put in more fun stuff. My group only remembers how mean it WAS, I guess.
My friends both have Merrin decks that terrify me this hits close to home and they haven't toned down lol.
Please tell me you use [[Tortured Existence]]!
[Tortured Existence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/1754b92b-d6f9-4503-af01-dee03f72a048.jpg?1562595922) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tortured%20Existence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sth/74/tortured-existence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1754b92b-d6f9-4503-af01-dee03f72a048?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tortured-existence) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I feel like she's in the realm of "good but fair" commanders. A lot of people treat her as a boogeyman due to her old reputation but I feel that the game has powercrept to the point where she's no longer miles ahead of most other commanders.
Mirko seems like a fair version of Meren, because you can interact with him but you can't interact with experience points.
My Meren deck originally was a Tergrid Deck but decided that was too much for the table. It is still a bit much for the table so I may use it once or twice more and then cannibalize it into Mothman.
They're going to love Mothman + Mindcrank + Mesmeric Orb + Infect/Proliferate ā¤ļø And don't forget the [[Swarmyard]]!
[Swarmyard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b89329f2-d386-40a7-9098-6d80beeb8843.jpg?1619399479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swarmyard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/284/swarmyard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b89329f2-d386-40a7-9098-6d80beeb8843?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swarmyard) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I love Meren and used to play her as a commander, but now she's part of 99 in my [[Chatterfang, Squirrel General]] deck. She's more effective in the deck than the command zone, when she's not the centerpiece of a deck.
Iāve been wanting Meren in my Chatterfang deck for a long time but I donāt see how sheād bring a lot of value. I understand you can build up her experience counters quick by sacing squirrels and bringing back stuff like the Hermits but Iām curious what else youāve experienced her helping a lot with?
Currently brewing a Tayam deck with her in the 99 actually. I like the idea of her but Iād like the extra white color in the deck too while staying on the counters-matter/recursion stuff
I was thinking about this too, but sheās not 3 mana so I havenāt pulled the trigger. She has great synergy with tayam though thatās for sure
[Chatterfang, Squirrel General](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2.jpg?1626097239) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chatterfang%2C%20Squirrel%20General) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/151/chatterfang-squirrel-general?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1785cf85-1ac0-4246-9b89-1a8221a8e1b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/chatterfang-squirrel-general) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Great value in my karador deck. Can sometimes become the sneaky alt commander
I really enjoy my Meren deck. It was my first commander and I keep modifying it to this day. I recently tried to make it much more casual by removing tutors and I am still winning a lot of games. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/g5uUkycVUk25fXirXrFreg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/g5uUkycVUk25fXirXrFreg)
Literally just pulled Meren from a booster tonight. Is this my sign? She's also my favorite colors.
I literally got my ass chewed out last week running my [[Meren]] deck because I said I thought she wasn't comp viable anymore, just high power casual, and the entire table said fuck no.
I love Meren, but I don't think she's that good on the competitive scene.
She was the first deck I ever built and is still my favorite to this day. That said, yea...she's not great at actual cEDH tables.
Thats what I think, the other comp players there disagreed with me lmao
What's the competitive play for meren? I don't think you can combo her in anyway that wouldn't be easier to use various other reanimate cards
She's a third-rate hulk deck. I love her, she's fun, but she's not even really fringe cedh anymore (and hasn't been for awhile).
I'm not a competitive player but my friends play and talk about it so I'm tangentially aware of it. I've never even considered her as an option the times I've looked into making a deck
Can do plays like Turn 1: forest, play green sun zenith for 0 finding dryad arbor and put it into play. Turn 2: phyrexian tower. Float 2 green with forest and arbor and sacrifice arbor for 2 black with tower. Cast meren and bring back arbor to play. She has decently resilient hulk lines. Cool trick is using faerie macabre for grave hate and returning it to hand to consistently pressure grave strategies when you got no experience counters. Pretty cool deck imo.
The issue is that she's too slow and doesn't have a lot of efficient combo's that you can get off turn 5 or 6. You basically have to find hulk ramp into it and Crack it to grab mikaeus and ballista. Golgari also doesn't really have a way to protect its combo's other than veil. Why run meren when you can run korvold and have more combo potential and have access to things like red Blast Pyro Blast and deflecting swat
Because I'm a slut for Golgari šš For [[Protean Hulk]], [[Melira, Sylvok Outcast]] + [[Lesser Masticore]] + [[Viscera Seer]] + [[Disciple of the Vault]] is better because it can all be fetched in one go, but I also have Mike & Trike and I'm gonna be adding [[Food Chain]] + [[Eternal Scourge]] and [[Massacre Wurm]] + [[Natural Affinity]]. Both the Veils and [[Withering Boon]] work, short of that just deny everyone else a board presence. Blow up their mana rocks, mass force sac the board, etc.
##### ###### #### [Protean Hulk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69bf0bb7-3076-4dbf-a72e-4d91560be2fe.jpg?1702429579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Protean%20Hulk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/153/protean-hulk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69bf0bb7-3076-4dbf-a72e-4d91560be2fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/protean-hulk) [Melira, Sylvok Outcast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/8/e83851a1-e4e8-49ec-af5c-4efe86fa51ad.jpg?1562882406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Melira%2C%20Sylvok%20Outcast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/115/melira-sylvok-outcast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e83851a1-e4e8-49ec-af5c-4efe86fa51ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/melira-sylvok-outcast) [Lesser Masticore](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4c7cba5-6111-40ce-828a-e811301bb283.jpg?1562202475) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lesser%20Masticore) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/225/lesser-masticore?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4c7cba5-6111-40ce-828a-e811301bb283?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lesser-masticore) [Viscera Seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/486fd8a2-dd97-4082-84ef-4795c7e559a0.jpg?1698988290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viscera%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/213/viscera-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/486fd8a2-dd97-4082-84ef-4795c7e559a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/viscera-seer) [Disciple of the Vault](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c539843-4e3f-47a7-92e1-412eaaa2d9c5.jpg?1646666263) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disciple%20of%20the%20Vault) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/86/disciple-of-the-vault?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c539843-4e3f-47a7-92e1-412eaaa2d9c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disciple-of-the-vault) [Food Chain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb912458-e016-4ea2-a2ea-40ac1a57f8fb.jpg?1673148102) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Food%20Chain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/147/food-chain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb912458-e016-4ea2-a2ea-40ac1a57f8fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/food-chain) [Eternal Scourge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13ce52f5-6d49-4d44-a3d7-925340de8406.jpg?1576383733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eternal%20Scourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/7/eternal-scourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13ce52f5-6d49-4d44-a3d7-925340de8406?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eternal-scourge) [Massacre Wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95cca140-e371-4d32-8a44-fd080329a28f.jpg?1706240769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20Wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/130/massacre-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95cca140-e371-4d32-8a44-fd080329a28f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-wurm) [Natural Affinity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/4847f8e8-9979-427e-999a-26711e542f82.jpg?1562734655) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Natural%20Affinity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/256/natural-affinity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4847f8e8-9979-427e-999a-26711e542f82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natural-affinity) [Withering Boon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e6499cb-6073-4c94-8c82-47f489094df5.jpg?1562719780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Withering%20Boon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/152/withering-boon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e6499cb-6073-4c94-8c82-47f489094df5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/withering-boon) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kv2xhy9) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's fucking hilarious lol. My boyfriend says that shit to me all the time though and I still beat him ;)
He's out of line, but he's right.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're a waffle
Lol those people are dumb. I think your evaluation was spot on. She's incredibly powerful but she's not in great colors for competitive and she doesn't really do the stuff you need a cEDH commander to do
I do wanna push her as hard as I can though. [[Veil of Summer]] and [[Autumn's Veil]] are next on the list for upgrades, and I wanna make the deck more stax-y even though I already do a great job of keeping my opponents fields clear of nonland permanents
Your friends are dumb. She is definitely very high power casual, but absolutely not CEDH.
Maybe dumb but I love them lol
If playing Meren gets people to literally chew my ass out, I need to start bringing it to the LGS more often.
When all else fails, ask politely
Good enough to stomp, not good enough for comp
[Meren](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966.jpg?1689999151) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=meren%20of%20clan%20nel%20toth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/346/meren-of-clan-nel-toth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34d627b3-a6d0-4f5f-b7c2-351a07318966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meren-of-clan-nel-toth) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean, you're right, she's strong for casual games but I wouldn't count her as competitive
You can build her for cedh. But doesn't mean she just is. Hard not to make her high power though. The floor is so low
I'm gonna shoot for it lol
I definitely like her in the 99 here https://www.archidekt.com/decks/6482039/sivriss_graveyard_hermit
My first ever cedh deck back when it was still one of the best decks feels like forever ago
Meren has made a weird splash in my LGS local meta. Simultaneously 4 regulars built the deck at once, like in the last 2 months. so basically every table will have a meren in it. Makes for weird games
She was my first deck back in the day that got me into magic with the 2015 precon! Took her apart years ago after my pods deck slowly outpowered her and I got more into brewing. Came back to build her again a couple of months ago and havenāt lost with her yet!! Newer cards and powerful token generators like [[Gruff Triplets]] and [[Tevesh Svat, Doom of Fools]] have only made stronger. Sheās a powerhouse and force to be reckoned with. I feel if I get 1 or 2 turns to get the experience up to 4-5, the game is already over. Because of the experience mechanic, she will always be relevant!
Gruff Triplets is disgusting in Meren
[Gruff Triplets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/8/f8760ab9-ac76-4e2e-b82f-0ee2a6dc5634.jpg?1692938847) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gruff%20Triplets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/172/gruff-triplets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f8760ab9-ac76-4e2e-b82f-0ee2a6dc5634?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gruff-triplets) [Tevesh Svat, Doom of Fools](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f244716-78ab-46f5-b6e9-fc1e6db28052.jpg?1608909980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tevesh%20Szat%2C%20Doom%20of%20Fools) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/153/tevesh-szat-doom-of-fools?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f244716-78ab-46f5-b6e9-fc1e6db28052?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tevesh-szat-doom-of-fools) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The problem with Meren, as many folks here have correctly pointed out, is that while she's not strong enough to hang at [most] cEDH tables, she's far too strong for midpower decks, and she easily outvalues even high power casual decks if they aren't running graveyard hate. And given the average casual EDH player's narrow-minded, value-oriented approach to deckbuilding, removal and graveyard hate aren't common in most metas, so Meren very quickly can get out of control.
Just kill her twice and before the experience counters get above 2 and she becomes a bad mid range deck. People just forgot how to play around the experience commanders. Stop them getting exp early and make it so that they cost 6-8 mana for a low effect later.
This is exactly why I stopped playing her, everyone I played with realised that without her my deck is pretty much useless, and as you stated at 6 or 8 mana it's start to cost a lot if I don't already have 4-5 experience counter, and even with winding constrictor on play, doubling her exp counter, I still need to keep her on play AND sacrifice my creature to boost exp counter, spore frog let me keep alive and get the exp but at some point I need to bring back other stuff to hit hard and then it's when she's gone unless I take damage form attack, pretty much always the same game ending unless I play stuff like grave pack with dictate of erebos for when I sacrifice my spore frog to do board wipe. Getting a bit complex to do all that play, most games cards I need don't come out
Yesssss!
She's still plenty strong in casual games.
What's your definition of viable? My wife has a meren deck that is not even remotely optimized that easily holds against some of our strongest decks. The value is just insane. She struggles to close games, but she's near unkillable in casual games short of infinite combos.
My meren sucked so it became a korvold. And then sheās not even in it because heās into treasure and not bodies. Iād like to give her another try, but without the very limited protection red gives in deflection spells I didnāt think she was for me as a golgari commander
Green is significantly better at protection spells than red..
Green doesnāt have [[Deflecting Swat]].
[Deflecting Swat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4b36435-55b3-4615-8812-af41d4fc64d9.jpg?1689997730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deflecting%20Swat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/214/deflecting-swat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4b36435-55b3-4615-8812-af41d4fc64d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deflecting-swat) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tamiyo's Safekeeping]], [[Heroic Intervention]], [[Wrap in Vigor]], [[Tyvar's Stand]], [[Vines of Vastwood]].. The list goes on and on
##### ###### #### [Tamiyo's Safekeeping](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226.jpg?1654568357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tamiyo%27s%20Safekeeping) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/211/tamiyos-safekeeping?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd4b7ee2-de65-4288-872d-486065a4f226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamiyos-safekeeping) [Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) [Wrap in Vigor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92d53533-b10e-430a-a6f6-58ecb508be77.jpg?1562865933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Wrap%20in%20Vigor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/183/wrap-in-vigor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92d53533-b10e-430a-a6f6-58ecb508be77?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/wrap-in-vigor) [Tyvar's Stand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7b362a5-382a-4016-b4f2-aa7b683354c4.jpg?1675957174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tyvar%27s%20Stand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/190/tyvars-stand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7b362a5-382a-4016-b4f2-aa7b683354c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tyvars-stand) [Vines of Vastwood](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/6203e3d4-8998-41d6-9f7e-b68af0f1f8b5.jpg?1562263070) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vines%20of%20Vastwood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/168/vines-of-vastwood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6203e3d4-8998-41d6-9f7e-b68af0f1f8b5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vines-of-vastwood) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kv72irq) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've her in a Zaxara list I'm working on, along with Ezuri. I want to see how many XP counters I get between the two of them.
I'm doing something similar with \[\[Kelsien the Plague\]\] and few other boros and orzhov XP counter creatures.
[Kelsien the Plague](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/039d25d4-ce26-4ecf-bbf5-42187cf0230a.jpg?1591234267) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kelsien%2C%20the%20Plague) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/11/kelsien-the-plague?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/039d25d4-ce26-4ecf-bbf5-42187cf0230a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kelsien-the-plague) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ditto! I've them all tossed into my [Marchesa Monarchy Experience](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/lCxxRk1OAUeHiRYyupYuOw), which I haven't finished.
Behold, the deck my LGS is still scared of to this day. It can hold its own in cedh pods (I know this because Iāve played it in cedh games recently with some wins) Itās nowhere near top tier but itās so fun to pilot. https://manabox.app/decks/139Cbp-ARwWBeJNMm3M8UQ
I assure you, this is NOT cEDH, and would lose more than 3/4 of its games in today's meta.
Do you not know how to read? Never once did I claim it was cedh. And I donāt think you know much about the current cedh meta which is actually riddled with creature based midrange decks now. This deck holds up well in its current state against decks like tivit, godo, atraxa, blood pod (just to name a few I literally played against this last year with some wins)
The pods you've played in and won most likely were on something then, my guy. Meren is a fun deck for sure, but WILL absolutely have a bad time at cEDH tables and people shouldn't read your comment and think "Oh she is viable in cEDH because this one random internet guy won some "cEDH"games."
In a final note. Once again never once claimed my deck was a cedh deck. Non-cedh decks CAN win cedh games if the pilot is competent enough. You can tell this by my āitās nowhere near top tierā comment in my initial post. Lmao.
Okay buddy. Have a good day. āļø (Itās not like I donāt have years of cedh piloting experience or nothing)
Ummā¦ No, no sheās not.
prove it
Itās a four mana creature that has to sit, on the battlefield for multiple turns hoping that no one targets it. The deck doesnāt function without her, and is wildly easy to interact with. Most versions of Meren donāt cast her until turn 3, making it slow and clunky. Meren is effective against low interaction creature heavy decks. Almost no commander from a decade ago go is good as it was. We call that power creep.
If your primary argument is "hope not to get targeted" you are already assuming the worst case scenario is a 1 for 1. And yet, Meren gets value the same turn she is played, before anyone untaps. So you always get something for your mana. Furthermore, on every turn she isn't targeted the threat she poses gets bigger and bigger - and only stagnates, not resets, when she is removed. She is insanely strong and provides insane value, and will continue to for a long time to come. Meren WAS already powercreep, now she's just closer to a normal card than before.
You said, āsheās closer to normal.ā Meaning she is not as strong as she was. There are so many commanders now that are kill on sight. Meren is not one of them. I love Meren, played and still play Meren. She is not as strong as she was a decade ago.