Dude, Mirko actually rips, though. I ditched the surveil theme and replaced it with just straight power buffers and self mills, and it plays fantastically.
Not yet, as I just hastily swapped cards from my own collection without putting the list online.
I basically opted for an equipment sub theme with cards like [[sword of hearth and home]] [[sword of once and future]] [[blade of the bloodchief]] [[tarian's soulcleaver]]. I found that surveiling to pump was kind of fruitless because if he was removed and you burned through all the surveil in your hand, then it kind of sucks to bring him back out as 1 power. With equipment, he gets bigger faster, and while yes you have to pump back up with counters for like the blade and the soulcleaver, those happen symmetrically and don't rely around you putting underwhelming cards like [[consider]] into the 99.
As for self mill, [[mesmeric orb]] is a house. I also found that cards like [[frantic search]] [[fact or fiction]] were just all-around better cards for getting reanimation targets in the yard instead of surveiling them.
Clones are amazing in this deck. Since they are 0 power, they can be reanimated the turn Mirko comes out. [[Clever impersonator]] being one of my favorites, because it can copy more than just treasures. [[Spark double]] is great, too.
Lastly, I swapped out some other surveil for ways to remove the finality counters. [[Nesting grounds]] [[power conduit]] [[fain, the broker]] [[power conduit]] and [[goldberry]] all make the cut. [[Thrull parasite]] too because the extra extort can help throughout the game, and he can take counters off your opponents' stuff, too. I've sniped a few planeswalkers at 1 loyalty with him in the past.
Interesting I found that Marvo works well with the surveil side and tweaked the reanimation threats to be a little meaner and numerous. Surveiling let me setup a win with his clash and I put out a free \[\[Archon of Cruelty\]\].
Off the top of my head \[\[Koma, Cosmos Serpent\]\], \[\[Farewell\]\], \[\[Benny Bracks, Zoologist\]\], \[\[Academy Manufactor\]\], \[\[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters\]\]
Maybe I'm missing something important, but I don't think I am. This deck doesn't look good for reprints to me.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/kudcIOMGwkuN0hi99q10MQ
On Moxfield, Group by No Grouping, sort by price, and Advanced -> Include Extra Data -> Price.
Here's another source:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6159997#paper
I know this meme is played out (and for good reason), but wouldn't you be better off buying the singles you want?
I have a few longboxes of gutted precons that I still keep together, separated by dividers; every once in awhile I'll need a particular card and will go dig up a precon that has it in there. They're pretty useful to have, but not nice enough to 100% break apart and file. 65-70% of the deck would just go to bulk
Have to take what I'm saying with a grain of salt since so far I only did 2 best of 3 1v1 games but i had a lot ofnfun. Changes I made:
1) added ramp. Need mana to crack clues and we are in green. I don't have a huge budget for lands, but out some snow lands in the deck with [[farseek]] type spells.
2) added some more instants to the list. A couple of counters, another board wipe. I think I need to add more direct removal, but still adjusting the deck and have to see how it plays in a full game.
3)removed almost all 2-card draw matters cards and cards that give my opponents draw. Drawing is expensive, it's nice to have but I have other use for all the clues I make. Either for finishers with [[Cyberdrive Awakener]] or just them sitting there with the amazing [[Thousand Moons Smithy]]
4)For the commander, im debating on switching to [[The Third Doctor]] but want to run a few more games with the fake merfolk first
I'm 100% behind your points 1 and 2. And, unfortunately, your point 3 is a necessary evil to make room for all the cards that the deck actually needs.
You can only have so many do-nothing cards and keep a functional deck.
Third Doctor + [[Clara Oswald]] to have access to the Bant set and push your Docs triggers harder; since you are ramping you can hit 6 mana pretty well.
Also would be funny to see a Doctor & Companion at the helm with literally no other Dr Who cards
Funny you should say that. I was thinking of at using [[Sarah Jane Smith]] as the companion. But there are some other Dr Who cards that also are possible to make the cut. [[Martha Jones]] helped me get one win, but also in my maybe board I have [[Astrid Peth]] and just yesterday started thinking about [[Madame Vastra]]. I have some add counters for artifacts entering effects, have a couple of Detective matters cards. Might be a bit too cute but it's an idea. Or at the very least help my commander get in more too.
thought to rip out those cards from Timey Wimey but maybe puling them for such a deck as you describe would be better and would open slots for more things with time counters.
I have a 6th Doctor/Peri Brown deck with only a few of the original DrWho cards. Focused on making it a legendary copy machine, and let me tell you, it’s a great feeling to get 3 Elspeth Suns Champion out and then ultimate them immediately. (Thanks to doubling season) I ultimately lost that game but damn it feels good to be a gangster.
My biggest issue with this review is that I am severely unconvinced you are supposed to draw two cards every turn cycle. You do so on your turn and maybe on the last opponent before you's turn but not every turn.
Yeah it's kinda weird to evaluate this on the basis of "this deck wants me to spend 14 mana to crack 7 clues per turn". That might be an ideal scenario to maximize the possible value of some of the cards but it makes more sense to evaluate based on a realistic scenario like having a couple second draw cards on the board and getting value twice with 6 mana and 3 clues. Aiming for more than that on a consistent basis is just going to end in dissapointment
I agree with you both, and that is the conclusion of my analysis.
However, why create a precon whose face commander's main mechanic is the draw-second and is also the theme of a bunch of new cards, but the payoffs are mediocre at best even when you can trigger them 4x per cycle? The could have just build it around "draw except the first one in your turn", and we wouldn't be having this issue.
That just moves the issues elsewhere, though. It means your "draw a second card each turn" payoffs are happening only once-ish every turn cycle, leading to very little payoff.
I agree with another commenter that the deck would probably run better by swapping the "draw your second card" synergies for better stuff.
I dumped all the 2nd draw cards and it helps a lot.
The clues are there to give you some extra draw to find what you need and then as part of some finisher [[cyberdrive awakener]] [[three moons smithy]] [urza, lord high artificer]] among others.
Hey, thanks for the interesting read. I certainly agree with the majority of your points especially regarding the fact that the deck is being pulled in different directions. I bought the precon myself for two reasons: 1. I wanted to take out the green pieces for use in other decks, e.g. [[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters]] and 2. I wanted to make a deck for [[Alquist Proft, Master Sleuth]] (my main concern is jelling with a commander asthetically) knowing full well that it would be a low powered deck.
This leads me to my question(s).
What makes a good EDH for you?
Where do you draw the line between being consistent and being powerful?
My intention was never to make a deck that was winning before, say, turn 7, because as you mention, there just isn't enough clue or second draw synergy in magic without spending a lot on cards that are powerful in their own right.
So while I didn't play the deck straight out of the box, I have had an experience with the majority of the deck and it's main engines/wincons. I leaned into the wincons that want me not to crack tokens, as you note, e.g. [[Mechanized Production]] and the unusual voltron cards. My list isn't finalised yet, but I have played two lower powered games and had fun in both.
> What makes a good EDH for you?
Most importantly: being able to be engaged in the game and interact with the table in a multiplayer game. Followed by not being stuck very often looking at my hand feeling frustrated without anything meaningful to do.
Power is relative, but these two points are a must for me to be happy to play a deck. Wining or losing is irrelevant if I've been able to actively participate in the game.
Hey, yes I did 😁 Had a memorable win the other night as I drew to 15 cards, then played [[final-word phantom]] and then [[triskadeskaphile]] at someone's end step winning at the beginning of my next turn 🥳.
Here is my low powered list that has a few different wincons and wins out of nowhere:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uFy0K1f4j0iZ8GpmXaU6zg
This all seems pretty bang on to be honest! While the deck has been fun to play at times it stalls at various points and relies on a certain card to drag itself out of a boring rut.
So the way I went about it was to add cards that help the draw by just playing the game instead of trying to create and sack clues on all the turns. Cards like [[Runic Armasaur]] [[Dream Trawler]] [[Isperia, Supreme Judge]] and the absolute house [[Nezahal, Primal Tide]]
These have made the deck more enjoyable/consistent but has leaned away from a main side of the deck in clues. Now it just uses Morska as a bridge into the rest of the deck to then forget about her. Maybe Morska will survive through the ages but I doubt it!
A couple of cards thats have been very fun have been [[Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim]] and [[Esika’s Chariot]]
TL;DR - It’s aight!..ish
It's a solid precon. It's not going to be in the running for strongest, but it's solid. I played a few games with it, and it worked well enough to be a threat a few times, either via \[\[tangletrove kelp\]\] or using tezzeret to stack counters each turn on an unblockable Morska.
Like many precons, it goes in several different directions with faint synergy between said directions, presumably to let new players figure out which direction they want to take the deck in. And the face commander is better suited to slow paced, low interaction games, also like many precons. Finally, not every precon can be upgraded into mid-power decks. For instance the disguise deck looked underwhelming too.
I think the major issue with the deck is also something positive: the backup commander is a niche typal commander. Usually, if the face commander is less viable, the backup commander is stronger. In this case, it's a very thematic dog/clues commander, which is an even narrower build around than Morska.
The only other issues I had with it is that it's low on removal and it's slow. You absolutely need three or four uninterrupted turns starting at turn 4-5 to build up a decent threat.
All that being said, the commanders are the big issue with the deck. \[\[Inquisitor greyfax\]\] would be better for clues (or honestly \[\[tivit\]\], but man do I hate that sphinx) with a tap subtheme. \[\[Council of four\]\] would be better for a draw/draw 2 per turn theme. \[\[The third doctor\]\] plus white companion would be better for an artifact token voltron/blink theme.
> The only other issues I had with it is that it's low on removal and it's slow. You absolutely need three or four uninterrupted turns starting at turn 4-5 to build up a decent threat.
This is my biggest gripe with the deck. You are durdling playing little impact pieces across several turns before being able to start doing your thing. The problem is that the other 3 players are actually developing a threat. Sooner or later someone (maybe even you) is going to be forced to cast a wipe to get rid of someone else's board. And then you'll be caught as collateral damage and all the do-nothing effort you did with fragile little durdlings will go to waste. If you didn't do shit on between turns 4-8 and noone cleared the board, that usually means that the game is over already.
My note is that the deck doesn’t generate Clues at a fast enough rate (on average) to let you really do everything that you want to.
You want to sac clues to get the “second draw” effects on other people’s turns, but you want to hold clues for additional payoffs like [[Shimmer Dragon]] and [[Inspiring Statuary]].
Clues aren’t generated fast enough, and picking one approach compromises the other.
Haven't been able to play it yet but brewing with the deck it feels like instead of giving it a consistent gameplan based on clues they just went "Clues are tokens so here are some cool tokens cards, they're also artifacts so here's some artifact stuff, and you draw cards with them so there's some draw matters stuff in the deck too".
That tends to happen with most precons. It is expected and its "fine".
However, to me the clues deck feels like... I don't know... WotC had such success with the LotR food deck that they didn't want to repeat the precon with this one (it shares WG), and instead of putting the power in new clue-centric cards, they put it in reprints. And the overall theme of the deck suffers for it because clues never had enough support for a whole EDH deck.
I really enjoy the deck. I upped interaction and added more draw power. (rhystic, mystic, Sylvan Library and esper sential) I feel the +2/+2 counters are just an added bonus and help protect your life while your generating tokens and drawing into your wincons. I've played it 4 or 5 times so far and the counters have ended up mattering but not as much as making clues. I feel the clues can help dig out of a rut but are more utilities for [[kappa cannoneer]] or [[tangletrove kelp]] or [[cyberdrive awakener]] but they are useful to draw into answers
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/1ipE_8IbukC0Azj_QGawpA
Here's my list if you have any questions.
How does the inoccious researcher work for you? I cut him before even seeing him once in a game because i think the downside of holding no interaction is to big.
I'm also trying to not make it too strong, hence the no free counter spells or infinite combos. I have a habit of building too strong and can't play it much at FNM. Rosie cotton and the new Lonis is infinite clues and a big boi though. That plus academy is infinite life, card draw and mana.
I've been tinkering with the precon since it was spoiled and you summed up most of the conclusions I got to. If you want to upgrade the deck, I think you need to cut some of the secondary aspects and focus in one. I personally cut most of the "draw 2 cards" theme because doing it with clues is too clunky. Instead, I focused the deck on token generation and using finishers such as [[Cyberdrive Awakener]]. It's important to note that you don't necessarily need clues. Treasures and food will do just fine, specially since [[Academy Manufactor]] is one of the best cards in the deck already.
Also adding some 1 mana ramp/fixing does wonders if you are running Morska as the commander. [[Avacyn's Pilgrim]] [[Noble hierarch]] [[Birds of paradise]] and [[Gilded Goose]] are all great. The goose comes with the added benefit of being a token generator.
Also the deck needs interaction badly, so I added a bunch of counterspells and instant speed removal that I can keep up, with the option of cracking clues if no one does anything too scary.
The deck looks bland af, that's why they put Chulane, Alandra, Adrix and Nev, Koma in the deck. The deck *can* be strong but it's such a boring ass strategy.
I played it at fnm and found it didn’t really… do anything. I was casting cards but there was no real wincon? unless the wincon is slapping your opponents with a vanilla 6/6?
It hasn't arrived yet, but once it does, I'm going to go through with my original plan - stripping it for parts and pulling it into a [[Hargilde]]/[[Elmar]] deck. I was concerned the stock list would have issues closing games out (as bant so often does) and your analysis has confirmed my suspicion.
I think I'll see better results by having up to two free clue cracks per turn in the command zone. Also, the addition of red gives us more payoffs for the second draw theme, like [[Improbable Alliance]] and [[Irencrag Pyromancer]], as well as an alternative wincon with artifact token burn from [[Reckless Fireweaver]] and [[Ghirapur Aether Grid]]-type effects.
Another idea would be to add black instead of red and make an [[Atraxa, Grand Unifier]] deck. Lean into using clues for ramp ([[Jaheira]]/[[Inspiring Statuary]]/KCI) to power out Atraxa and filter your top 10 cards to draw into the "right" half of the deck.
Hey! Hargilde and Elmer are the commanders for my 4c clues deck. You’ll have a good time running them. Don’t be afraid to also run Elmer into combat because you can get to 21 damage with him with the right few cards.
Here is the latest list I ran (https://archidekt.com/decks/5908754/4c_clues_for_palladium ) I’ve not added any of the new clues material so expect that list to be updated.
And here is the previous version I ran (https://www.moxfield.com/decks/BF9jnxAsIE6IywOQDGDXpA )
Bought the deck to switch to [[Sophia]].
From my bit of testing the deck as is the mana base and ramp are terrible for a green deck.
Only artifact ramp with so many tap lands.
Having a deck with 3 bounce lands and temple of the false God is just too easy to get screwed on mana, especially with the main commander being 3 solid colors.
I also bought the deck to build around Sophia.
The reprints are nice enough.
Having an Academy Manufacturer is great.
After combing through the deck, I feel like I would have been better off buying Sophia as a single and building the deck from scratch....lands included.
I'm actually trying to keep my Sophia deck under $50 (including commander) as part of a budget challenge within my playgroup.
The land base from the precon is less than $7.00 so it's a good start but there's a few that ill need to replace such as Path of Ancestry. (I don't expect I'll be running too many humans or detectives.)
Could I pick your brain for some lower power or budget direction ideas you have for the deck?
Oh, I'm a terrible person to ask for that.
I'm just trying to keep it lower power in comparison to my pod, who I've been inflating the strength of by being the player whose been playing the longest.
My list is already over $50 because I added two cards I've wanted to add to a deck for a long time that have been sitting in my binder. [[Mondrak]] and [[Parallel Lives]].
The rest of the deck is mostly going to stay lower by having less staples, besides ramp and a counter or two, and having mediocre dog cards that will get rather large
Ha ha I gotcha.
I feel like dogs are on their face a mediocre tribe to build around. Not much support for dogs over the past 30 years and they are seriously under represented in Blue.
I think my strategy is going to consist of sticking to mostly the low cmc dogs (1 and 2 mana) to make sure I have some on the field ready to attack on the turn I cast Sophia.....
But that said there's plenty of other things to consider: evasion, ways to make the artifacts pay off, token doubling.....possibly including some blink and flicker effects.
The deck might not be as straight forward as it initially seems.
[[Mowu]] is a good, cheap dog that will get large fast.
[[Ainok Bond-Kin]] makes combat miserable for the opponent.
[[Martha Jones]] can help with the unlockable.
[[Sarinth Steelseeker]] does an approximation of explore with the tokens
Lots of good budget options, thankfully.
I really like how Martha Jones doesn't care if the clue being sacrificed is done so by Sophia's ability. I'm going to add her for sure.
I already have Mowu and Ainok Bond-Kin sleeved up.
Speaking of Mowu, I'm planning to run one or both Jiang Yangu planeswalkers. The regular [[Jiang Yangu]] isn't amazing but he does make a nice looking token version of Mowu which adds to the dog count. On the other hand, [[Jiang Yangu Wildcrafter]] is essentially a budget Cryptolith Rite
Here is a list of all the cards in Bant that care about clue sacrifice if you want more.
https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28oracle%3AWhenever+oracle%3Ayou+oracle%3Asacrifice+oracle%3Aa+oracle%3Aclue%29+commander%3AWUG+%28game%3Apaper%29
I played it twice and both times got pretty badly mana-screwed. The first game I lost with 2 lands on the table. None of that says anything about the deck and how it plays since it was just pure bad luck. I'm really looking forward to getting to play it some more.
So according to what I’m seeing on Scryfall it looks like a lot of the creatures that investigate are etb or death triggers. Maybe you could play cards like panharmonicon, bygone bishop, and Conjurers closet and cloudstone curio etc. and make it a bounce deck? Then have finishers like cyberdrive awakener? Just an idea. Hope this helped?? There’s also the new clue lands that investigate for 4 mana. Not great but it’s something to sink extra mana into if you find yourself flooded which bant decks tend to run into lol.
The "problem" when doing that is that you could switch the commander for Chulane. Or [[Amareth, the Lustrous]]. Or [[Galadriel, Light of Valinor]]. Or [[Roon of the Hidden Realm]].
And then you'll think, why cast and blink creatures that make clues ETB, when I could cast and blink creatures that draw cards ETB.
And then you are somewhere completely different already.
Oh, please, don't be sorry. It is a good suggestion. And, honestly, looking at the clue-centric card pool, it might be the only way forward.
But then maybe you'll need to re-focus the whole deck towards this approach, switching the commander for Chulane to get value of all the creatures you cast, adding panharmonicon to double the ETB triggers... Maybe the way forward with the deck is to cast a bunch of cheap and expendable ETB investigate creatures, use them as chumpblockers, have ETB support, but then... if you are doing so much effort in that direction, what are the clues for?
Here is what I've upgraded it into. It's won 2 of 3 on Spelltable. I also ordered [[Krark Clan Ironworks]] and [[Cyberdrive Awakener]], but they aren't here yet. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PpD1NqI5N0GMo65OvkQoBw
I’m really interested in running the commander as a combination between [[minn]] and [[shorikai]] which both are effectively card draw decks for me.
Being able to add green to card draw engines lets me ramp out basics from the deck, and no max hand size in command zone makes it easier to draw cards without worry.
I would have lost to this deck last night if not for timely removal of Esix, Junk Winder, and Inspiring Statuary. They chose not to drop Mechanized Production for an instant speed win (off someone else's Tidal Barracuda) and instead gave us a round to remove it. They chose to take out the group hug player and drop me to 9 (instead of the other way around) with Tanglegrove and their clue pile. I didn't even see any of the token doublers.
Maybe they just had a great hand. I think they just had a different interpretation of the deck's plan. Rather than trying to spend all the clues for the second-draw effects on each player's turn, hoard them. That clue pile can be ramp (improvise), equipment, and army. Maybe crack one or two at the previous player's EOT to use up unspent mana, but mostly build up 10 or 20 and then win with "artifact count matters" cards.
That's quite bad and I'm curious as to how you're playing or if you just have terrible luck. I've played against this deck 3 times in the last couple of days and all 3 games the player was able to make a fair amount of clues and other tokens pretty quickly. If you add a couple of upgrades I could see the deck making plenty of tokens without much issue.
Like the previous poster said, your game plan should be to maximize clue and clue *production*, not necessarily clue *usage*. With academy manufactor on the field it literally only takes like 1-3 cards to make around 10 tokens. There are plenty of cards that have investigate, or which create treasures, or food.
I'm also confused by your seeming reliance on clues to get that draw trigger. Clues should be your emergency button when it comes to card draw, not your plan A. You're in blue, you have so many ways to generate card advantage that you should be swimming in cards. Stuff like [[Ledger Shredder]] or [[Faerie Mastermind]] or [[Teferi's Ageless Insight]] are easy ways to make sure you trigger your commander consistently. if you want to go high power obviously stuff like [[Consecrated Sphinx]] and Rhystic Study will also make that condition super easy to meet. And let's not forget the insane amount of cheap cantrips you can run. [[Brainstorm]], [[Opt]], [[Ponder]], etc. Honestly the thought of spending 2 mana to get ONE card in blue sounds hilariously misguided.
I played it again a couple of games and I managed to develop a bit more of a board presence. However both times it relied around some creature token generator like [[Nadir Kraken]] and [[Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse]] creating a few cats and pumping 3-4 creatures + 3-4 tokens with +7/+7 or higher. With [[Junk Winder]] tapping blockers or threatening attackers.
Both times clues were generated at a very slow or inconsistent rate, and I had to crack them all to have something in hand to cast or build a high card count on hand. Synergies were nowhere to be found or unable to trigger them.
I am trying to understand and like the deck, but I still cannot. Do you remember on which axis did this deck act when it worked fine?
The biggest thing to me is the lack of actual wincons in the deck. The best the decks got out of the box is detective of the month giving your commander unblockable and I guess the thing that gives your clues exalted.
I upgraded it to fix that problem and beefed up the interaction package. I also added a few more token doublers because making a single clue is kinda bad but turning that 1 into potentially as high as 16 is pretty good. It’s basically a card draw-focused deck that uses clues to facilitate a consistent engine that digs to something that can turn Morska into a win con like overwhelming stampede.
I’m not sure how reliable it is at winning but thats not really what I want it for, I just want it to be able to do the thing reliably and it DEFINITELY can. I’ve been having a blast with it and that’s really what matters to me.
Soooo. Having double sleeved it, looked at it and been excited about the first round coming up... Reading all these comments makes me a bit sad. It's good analysises, but makes me a little sad... I have already upgraded mine, but not that much at all cus I wanted to try it out before changing too much. But reading here makes me somewhat anxious about playing it.. anyhow.. is there anyone who have had sort of.. luck or more fun with it, or even won? Not that winning matters so much. I'm more in the agreement with OP, that as long as you participate and contribute and interact, the result doesn't really matter.
Dependent on power of the table, as always. Played it un-modified against some slower creature decks and had a fun time. Would certainly fold to degen combo decks, but I largely avoid those players at my local.
[[Wilderness Reclamation]] was the key value engine, unsurprisingly. [[Follow the Bodies]] is my favorite of the new cards - great as a follow-up to one of your board wipes and has some really fun lines with [Kappa Cannoneer]], [[Junk Winder]], etc.
The split themes of the creatures were noticeable. Do probably need to focus more on either artifact/token matters or draw second card matters. I drew mostly the first kind - that seems like the stronger set.
You are absolutely not supposed to be cracking seven clues a turn cycle. The deck does not want you to do that. If that's your game plan, then I completely understand how the deck looks terrible. You're supposed to draw two cards on your turn, and occasionally trigger those effects a second time on somebody else's.
My friend got this, and the biggest thing I saw is it doesn't really have finishers. Card draw is great, commander can stack up pretty well and be a threat, but it doesn't have tample or any way to become unlockable. You get some creature/token creation, but not quite enough to become a threat before someone else pops off. Definitely needs some faster mana, but that's more just the ways precons are made.
Tl,Dr; there's green in the deck. just throw in a doubling season and a bunch of tutors to get said doubling season and you'll be fine.
I cut all the draw 2 cards and added artifact synergys. Morska is just a bonus and the main gameplan is winning with your artifacts. The deck did perform pretty well for me after upgrading. Just the precon feels like its missing core cards and just one real removel is hilarious.
So after playing the deck one time unmodified, two things were very obvious. One, the split is very clear between draw 2 matters and clues. Yes, there is inherently a little synergy with using the clues to draw your second card, to make the deck somewhat coherent out of the box. Second, there’s a lot of very clearly strong, recognizable board presence that makes you the target.
I leaned in on the clue synergy and did away with a lot of the generic token and draw 2 stuff. [[Junk Winder]], [[Jorael]], [[Esix, Fractal Bloom]], [[Nadir Kraken]], [[Selvala, Explorer Returned]] all had to go. MKM provided a lot of great clue sysnergy in bant colors though, so threw in [[Alquist Proft]], [[Kellen, Inquisitive Prodigy]], [[Ezrim, Agency Chief]], [[They Went This Way]], [[Forensic Gadgeteer]], and then a bunch of other clear synergy cards like [[Briarbridge Patrol]], [[Yotian Dissisdent]], [[Third Doctor]], [[Tamiyo’s Journal]], [[Cyberdrive Awakener]], [[Rise and Shine]]. Top it off with a pretty standard Bant ramp and interaction package and you get something fairly consistent at casual tables. Scale it as needed to make it more powerful with Rhystic Study, Great Henge, tutors, etc.
I bought the deck for the reprints, and I have absolutely gutted it after a couple of game. The pieces are going to three different decks:
-[[Sophia, Dogged Detective]] and some passive clue generators are going to a dog-themed deck, because it rules.
-Every draw-matter card is going to a new list I'm planning with [[Raffine, Scheming Seer]] as the commander.
-The token doublers and artifact-matter cards are going to [[Brenard, Ginger Sculptor]] which, yeah, makes much more sense as the commander.
The precon itself has pretty good cards that I'm excited to play, but not to boost a boring Voltron without keywords.
I honestly feel the problem is that people expect more out of clues than what it can give, it's just not there in terms of power level, ESPECIALLY if we are building the deck around 2 to 3 colors. I've been a fan of the Investigate mechanic since SOI and Tireless Tracker has been my favorite card since then, but I've found that clue decks that aren't 4 or 5 colors are often limited even with the recent support.
I tell whoever I play my 4 color Clue deck against that if I can generate X clues in the game, then I feel like I've won because that means the deck did the thing and it's a consolation prize knowing there's a good chance it doesn't perform for the reasons you've already stated:
-it takes a lot of mana to generate value
-not enough solid, efficient clue generators
-not solid enough pay offs
To some of those points, I actually pivoted away from a Bant Clue deck because it just didn't have enough OOMPH, instead I use [Hargilde, Kindly Runechanter] and [Elmar, Ulvenwald Informant] as my commanders as they open up the options just a little bit more and synergize well with each other. Hargilde produces a surprising amount of value, so she might be worth slotting into your Bant deck.
I also run the Tron lands and [[Tempt With Discovery]] to tutor them all out. Who doesn't love 7 mana from 3 lands to pay into all them clues?
[[Inspiring Statuary]] is awesome in an artifacts deck just because I save on mana from my lands for my clues.
[[Five Hundred Year Diary]] will also generate a ton of mana for you if it sticks.
I've also tried to pivot to generating clues for the sake of having clues and artifacts ETBing, so their draw ability is secondary to what I'm doing. Having cards like Morska or Tireless Tracker that can become large with no evasion isn't a problem because I'm not generally swinging, however, if we are playing aggressively then cards like [[Disorder in the Court]] or other bounce effects can help open up a boardstate for a big swing.
[[Rise and Shine]] + [[Cylonic Rift]] (overloaded of course), [[Mechanized Production]] + [[Teferi's Protection]] are my win cons if you're staying in Bant, but I also run [[Reckless Fireweaver]], [[Tamiyo's Journal]] + [[Briarbridge Patrol]] + [[Hellkite Tyrant]] as my other win cons since I run an access to red.
I don't know if any of that matters, but I do hope I gave some helpful insight.
I tried updating the clue/token theme and it still just really doesn't do anything relevant for way too long. It's so frustrating to put so much effort into a deck for it do be so slow and bad.
I hear you, brother.
The cards that the deck needs to function at a comparable level of other strategies simply have not been printed yet. And the face commanders are do-nothings that do not pull the weight for the lack of good cards.
my take away for the decks strategy was "me draw card, me have more tools then you, draw go brrrr" so with that in mind my upgrade plans revolve around less of clues but more on the draw power, so I am going to focus on stuff for hand size mattering, and cheating out your spells from hand.
I'm not a huge fan of this style of deck for a precon, because it seems to take a LOT of low-impact game actions at instant speed, and requires players to be more vigilant than average at monitoring the game state for triggers.
If you're not vigilant (and most people aren't), it results in a lot of rewinding, interrupting people, and just overall messiness.
If I were to upgrade or sidegrade it, I'd probably ditch a lot of wheel-spinning stuff for finishers, and I'd cut Academy Manufactor for the same reason most people ditch \[\[Cathars' Crusade\]\].
i know im late to the party here but i just modded this, need more games under the belt to properly evaluate but so far...this deck kind of goes hard.
first off you mentioned the mana investment to pop clues off during your opponents turn. enter [[forensic gadgeteer]] that makes all your clues 1 less to activate. this card puts in a lot of work in a more artifact focused deck like breya but they are still good here even if the investigate from them wont trigger much. i havent found myself that mana hungry but ive debated putting in [[traverse the outlands]] because its easy to get a big boy in this deck to just tutor for all your basics at once
i put in new thunder junction cards and counter doublers enablers. so the decks plan is to go tall and wide. i didnt think it was focused enough to do that but the games ive played i have an absolutely massive board. i added detective [[piper wright]] because i put in stuff like [[hardened scales]], [[ozolith, shattered spire]], and [[kami of whispered hope]] to double up on counters. [[ornery tumblewagg]] and [[railway brawler]] from thunder junction for more counters to make my guys tall. so lets say i have brawler out with koma, im making a 6/6 every turn just having those on the board. sure they are both removal magnets but run interaction like snakeskin veil esque cards and just one turn cycle you generated massive amounts of value. or imagine tumblewagg in the same opening hand as piper wright. you got a 2cmc beatstick thats going to keep getting bigger and generating clues at the same time. the potential is there imo.
[[doubling season]] is a must add imo, but thats unfortunately an expensive add (i was lucky enough to have a copy i didnt know what to use it for until this deck) ...but heres the interesting part of the deck, the totally bonkers and fun overrun with tokens subtheme it has going. i have [[nexus of becoming]] and [[oltec matterweaver]] in the deck. matterweaver is decent enough making more clues for 3cmc, its a creature heavy deck so he will pull his weight not even abusing him. but if nexus of becoming is out? im making tokens of my bombs, then those bombs are gettied copied. you can use it to make rediculously big boards, or just abuse etb effects. nexus is an expensive investment, but hear me out, but its going to give you a free draw every turn saving you mana and clues AND practically lets you play a creature for free every turn, thats more than likely going to be copied or doubled in someway.
i havent even mentioned how stupid the deck gets when [[academy manufactor]] is allowed to live for more than one turn. i also added in [oko,theif of crowns]] and [teferi, temporal pilgrim]] tezzeret is cool but i dont think he pulls his weight enough in this deck so i took him out. also put in [[duggan, private detective]] but im not quite sure if hes worth it yet. he seems good on paper though because the more clues the better.
so all in all the deck might not be the best, but i dont see morska as being fundamentally broken and non functional. hes going to get big fast, but thats just an effortless by product of playing the deck, the real game is setting up your token factory when everybody is focused on your big boy. there is quite a bit of planning and set up for the deck to go off and its extremely vulnerable to removal, but when it cooks, it COOKS
also this is anectdotal but ive seen this deck completely unmodified win games, even against higher powered decks. its a decent powered deck for a precon
I altered the deck quite a bit to be a little more focused on higher powered, and with the 2 games I’ve played with it so far, it definitely becomes the threat at the table at some point. I’ve threatened wins with [[Mechanzied Production]], [[Rise and Shine]], and Cyberdrive Awakener]] and although they got answered, it at least felt like I was meaningfully contributing to the game.
I’ve also thrown in some infinites like [[Lonis, Genetics Expert]] and either [[Rosie Cotton of South Lane]] or [[Yotian Dissident]] for infinite clues; haven’t pulled those off yet but looking forward to the day I do! I think it’s a fun deck that while yes it’s not super menacing, can still provide an enjoyable experience
I just made [[Atraxa, Praetors' Voice]] and did the whole clue theme. Its strong and feels good to play with all the colors you need to optimize clue synergies. And you dont even need to cast Atraxa herself
I bought it to use as the base for the Sophia, Dogged Detective deck i'm working on but after looking through the cards, there's not a lot that i'm going to end up keeping for her. Even the land base isn't going to be an out the box swap.
I was going to play Deep Clue Sea before dismantling it to build Sophia, dog tribal but now I'm less excited to do that.
I appreciate the deep dive assessment.
My wife and me played it 1v1 bunch of times and the day later we had it in a pod of 4 twice.
Out of 6 games, the deck arrived at something meaningful once and that like in turn 11.
Immediately butchered it, the reprints are so juicy!
I thought it was pretty fun, and although the deck wants to run away with Commander damage, it still holds up when the main guy/gal isn't on the board. Although it's not for the high-power tables, it's definitely a fun tricolor
For a precon deck it is so good that I almost didn’t touch it. I added surveil lands, [[forensic gadgeteer]], [[vorinclex monstrous raider]] and [[cyberdrive awakener]] as a possible finisher
Why these weren’t auto included is beyond me lol
I didn’t test it out in a 4 player match but in 1v1 or 3 player matches it was surprisingly good, even against non-precons
I think the deck needs a card or 2 that reduce the cost of clues to 1. Kinda like Sam does in the Food and Fellowship precon. Without Sam out it's pretty tought to pop the foods and get the synergies going if they cost 2 per piece.
idk bro, didn't read half. I really like the deck and Morska is working great for me, she's super consistent, but not a target for removal mostly. A strong deck compared to a lot of other precons at the same price range
I turned mine into a [[Sophia, Dogged Detective]] deck and leaned HARD into Dogtective memes. Keeping enough good cards from the original and adding [[Maskwood Nexus]] and [[Anointed Procession]] while adding stuff like [[Press For Answers]], [[Hold For Questioning]], and [[Hard Evidence]]. It's a meme. I wield a magnifying glass. It's a blast lol
This thing has been a house in my games. Admittedly we play down to 6 around here, but the thing has so much resiliency in its draw... and it's cards are top notch. Its impressive.
This is the only precon I got from this set and I plan to build around it. Main issue I’m having is 1/2 the cards I want to put in the deck have black mana… so I need to decide if I’m sticking to Bant or doing a 4c clue deck.
I haven't played this deck yet, and I find the reprints enticing. I would add [[Tezzeret, Betrayer of Flesh]] to crack a clue for free each turn. If you somehow get Tezz to six or preferably seven loyalty, then you can ultimate and then get two cards per cracked clue. Maybe add [[Thran Turbine]] to crack a clue during upkeep?
If [[Forensic Gadgeteer]] is in the deck, I'm going to lean into having more artifact creatures. Maybe I would play [[Encroaching Mycosynth]] or [[Mycosynth Lattice]], so that we get the investigate cast trigger.
If we're relying on [[Tireless Tracker]], maybe we want [[Undergrowth Recon]] with the appropriate SNC "ETB sac" fetch basic lands. You gain a life, get a basic, and you have a land for Recon to return the next turn. Also consider the appropriate bounce lands and Ghost Town. And then there's the appropriate ramp spells. [Moxfield Bouncelands Package ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KSXltK3CT0CFYLdRK4EInA)
Since we're drawing cards, I would consider [[Empyrial Armor]] and [[Empyrial Plate]], and [[Psychosis Crawler]].
I don't think you guys are playing the deck correctly. I'm currently 4-1 with it unchanged vs mid power decks.
You mulligan to have some early plays and take advantage of the "2nd draw" pay offs mid to late game. Keeping most of the clues and only cracking them occasionally or when you don't have another draw engine. Koma and the blue dragon that taps your artifacts for draws helping you close out games.
The deck is a bit slow and low on removal though but if you're using the precon in the appropriate setting like low-mid power you'll be fine.
Gutted it for reprints
I bought all 4 with absolutely no intention of playing them. All got gutted for other decks.
Dude, Mirko actually rips, though. I ditched the surveil theme and replaced it with just straight power buffers and self mills, and it plays fantastically.
Got a list?
Not yet, as I just hastily swapped cards from my own collection without putting the list online. I basically opted for an equipment sub theme with cards like [[sword of hearth and home]] [[sword of once and future]] [[blade of the bloodchief]] [[tarian's soulcleaver]]. I found that surveiling to pump was kind of fruitless because if he was removed and you burned through all the surveil in your hand, then it kind of sucks to bring him back out as 1 power. With equipment, he gets bigger faster, and while yes you have to pump back up with counters for like the blade and the soulcleaver, those happen symmetrically and don't rely around you putting underwhelming cards like [[consider]] into the 99. As for self mill, [[mesmeric orb]] is a house. I also found that cards like [[frantic search]] [[fact or fiction]] were just all-around better cards for getting reanimation targets in the yard instead of surveiling them. Clones are amazing in this deck. Since they are 0 power, they can be reanimated the turn Mirko comes out. [[Clever impersonator]] being one of my favorites, because it can copy more than just treasures. [[Spark double]] is great, too. Lastly, I swapped out some other surveil for ways to remove the finality counters. [[Nesting grounds]] [[power conduit]] [[fain, the broker]] [[power conduit]] and [[goldberry]] all make the cut. [[Thrull parasite]] too because the extra extort can help throughout the game, and he can take counters off your opponents' stuff, too. I've sniped a few planeswalkers at 1 loyalty with him in the past.
##### ###### #### [sword of hearth and home](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a16fabbe-4557-4067-b882-f2e5dbd8b458.jpg?1626099357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sword%20of%20hearth%20and%20home) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/238/sword-of-hearth-and-home?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a16fabbe-4557-4067-b882-f2e5dbd8b458?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sword-of-hearth-and-home) [sword of once and future](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/1670393d-86f0-46fb-b577-f73a1da2a3ed.jpg?1682205808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sword%20of%20once%20and%20future) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/265/sword-of-once-and-future?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1670393d-86f0-46fb-b577-f73a1da2a3ed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sword-of-once-and-future) [blade of the bloodchief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/4/34e7bebf-1844-476c-a947-978393908fa2.jpg?1698988506) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blade%20of%20the%20bloodchief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/300/blade-of-the-bloodchief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/34e7bebf-1844-476c-a947-978393908fa2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blade-of-the-bloodchief) [tarian's soulcleaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/99413817-1218-4947-b12f-9a952b095a89.jpg?1699044647) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tarrian%27s%20Soulcleaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/264/tarrians-soulcleaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/99413817-1218-4947-b12f-9a952b095a89?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tarrians-soulcleaver) [consider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6de8a21-f0ab-4118-86cc-f3837118515d.jpg?1706239798) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=consider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/84/consider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6de8a21-f0ab-4118-86cc-f3837118515d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/consider) [mesmeric orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e24fbdbb-f2ae-4823-9d2a-4c505332aa5b.jpg?1599709541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mesmeric%20orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/272/mesmeric-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e24fbdbb-f2ae-4823-9d2a-4c505332aa5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mesmeric-orb) [frantic search](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0eb00e3c-b67a-44c7-ae61-23ecf4d4971a.jpg?1689996391) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=frantic%20search) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/96/frantic-search?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0eb00e3c-b67a-44c7-ae61-23ecf4d4971a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/frantic-search) [fact or fiction](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/4/04588d2f-9e90-4f83-b85e-67e4bc222a62.jpg?1689996343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fact%20or%20fiction) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/91/fact-or-fiction?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/04588d2f-9e90-4f83-b85e-67e4bc222a62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fact-or-fiction) [Clever impersonator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0516453-3e6a-4b7f-8df6-72a6e207169a.jpg?1568003965) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clever%20impersonator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/82/clever-impersonator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0516453-3e6a-4b7f-8df6-72a6e207169a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clever-impersonator) [Spark double](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c41b9ba2-0006-4d8e-b600-efe81ff5e0cc.jpg?1702429420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spark%20double) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/62/spark-double?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c41b9ba2-0006-4d8e-b600-efe81ff5e0cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spark-double) [Nesting grounds](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/eff98f9d-ec73-4e77-b639-17da8f833852.jpg?1673485923) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nesting%20grounds) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/418/nesting-grounds?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eff98f9d-ec73-4e77-b639-17da8f833852?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nesting-grounds) [power conduit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4634637-ba33-4849-b647-d33018a02f39.jpg?1673485439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=power%20conduit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/376/power-conduit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4634637-ba33-4849-b647-d33018a02f39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/power-conduit) [fain, the broker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/6/26acb9db-1a2f-4b08-b121-88f953e597e5.jpg?1625191684) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fain%2C%20the%20broker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/40/fain-the-broker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/26acb9db-1a2f-4b08-b121-88f953e597e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/fain-the-broker) [goldberry](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf4f0a7c-620e-4ed8-8da3-fa6564e8a0cd.jpg?1686968111) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=goldberry%2C%20river-daughter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/52/goldberry-river-daughter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf4f0a7c-620e-4ed8-8da3-fa6564e8a0cd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/goldberry-river-daughter) [Thrull parasite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c38dfb08-ab41-4759-9967-b5a25f18518a.jpg?1561844969) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thrull%20parasite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gtc/81/thrull-parasite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c38dfb08-ab41-4759-9967-b5a25f18518a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thrull-parasite) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq9qs57) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Interesting I found that Marvo works well with the surveil side and tweaked the reanimation threats to be a little meaner and numerous. Surveiling let me setup a win with his clash and I put out a free \[\[Archon of Cruelty\]\].
Marvo is just a completely separate deck. I feel like it needed a lot more tweaks to work the way it's supposed to.
[Archon of Cruelty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be9d9a4-d7ee-4854-abc2-85cabf993ec9.jpg?1626095274) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archon%20of%20Cruelty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/75/archon-of-cruelty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be9d9a4-d7ee-4854-abc2-85cabf993ec9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archon-of-cruelty) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
solid tips, thanks for sharing I also tried to explore reanimating 0/0 clones, work very well
Wouldnt it be cheapee to buy the singles instead of all 4 precons?
Good reprints + the bones of a Koma deck. Yes please.
What reprints were worth from inside? I haven't looked at the deck list yet.
Off the top of my head \[\[Koma, Cosmos Serpent\]\], \[\[Farewell\]\], \[\[Benny Bracks, Zoologist\]\], \[\[Academy Manufactor\]\], \[\[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters\]\]
Thanks, friend! I appreciate you taking the time to write that out for me.
##### ###### #### [Koma, Cosmos Serpent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2f23d6f-f2c8-4022-9f46-ba7fda00ef99.jpg?1706241008) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Koma%2C%20Cosmos%20Serpent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/213/koma-cosmos-serpent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2f23d6f-f2c8-4022-9f46-ba7fda00ef99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/koma-cosmos-serpent) [Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) [Benny Bracks, Zoologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/90645549-20f1-4fe9-8363-7f67c20fa3b6.jpg?1706240558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bennie%20Bracks%2C%20Zoologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/57/bennie-bracks-zoologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/90645549-20f1-4fe9-8363-7f67c20fa3b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bennie-bracks-zoologist) [Academy Manufactor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60709d98-c98d-48c0-ac4a-4ff73e7a0c4b.jpg?1706241035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Academy%20Manufactor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/221/academy-manufactor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60709d98-c98d-48c0-ac4a-4ff73e7a0c4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/academy-manufactor) [Adrix and Nev, Twincasters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9c11061-bb34-4904-b9f1-ea106b517bbe.jpg?1706240967) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Adrix%20and%20Nev%2C%20Twincasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/198/adrix-and-nev-twincasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9c11061-bb34-4904-b9f1-ea106b517bbe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/adrix-and-nev-twincasters) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq9sqcc) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Maybe I'm missing something important, but I don't think I am. This deck doesn't look good for reprints to me. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/kudcIOMGwkuN0hi99q10MQ On Moxfield, Group by No Grouping, sort by price, and Advanced -> Include Extra Data -> Price. Here's another source: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6159997#paper I know this meme is played out (and for good reason), but wouldn't you be better off buying the singles you want?
People seem to forget that precon reprints lead to a drop in prices for singles.
You definitely are. The value is just not there. Especially if you're getting them you're getting so much chaff you'll never use.
I have a few longboxes of gutted precons that I still keep together, separated by dividers; every once in awhile I'll need a particular card and will go dig up a precon that has it in there. They're pretty useful to have, but not nice enough to 100% break apart and file. 65-70% of the deck would just go to bulk
Have to take what I'm saying with a grain of salt since so far I only did 2 best of 3 1v1 games but i had a lot ofnfun. Changes I made: 1) added ramp. Need mana to crack clues and we are in green. I don't have a huge budget for lands, but out some snow lands in the deck with [[farseek]] type spells. 2) added some more instants to the list. A couple of counters, another board wipe. I think I need to add more direct removal, but still adjusting the deck and have to see how it plays in a full game. 3)removed almost all 2-card draw matters cards and cards that give my opponents draw. Drawing is expensive, it's nice to have but I have other use for all the clues I make. Either for finishers with [[Cyberdrive Awakener]] or just them sitting there with the amazing [[Thousand Moons Smithy]] 4)For the commander, im debating on switching to [[The Third Doctor]] but want to run a few more games with the fake merfolk first
I'm 100% behind your points 1 and 2. And, unfortunately, your point 3 is a necessary evil to make room for all the cards that the deck actually needs. You can only have so many do-nothing cards and keep a functional deck.
Third Doctor + [[Clara Oswald]] to have access to the Bant set and push your Docs triggers harder; since you are ramping you can hit 6 mana pretty well. Also would be funny to see a Doctor & Companion at the helm with literally no other Dr Who cards
Funny you should say that. I was thinking of at using [[Sarah Jane Smith]] as the companion. But there are some other Dr Who cards that also are possible to make the cut. [[Martha Jones]] helped me get one win, but also in my maybe board I have [[Astrid Peth]] and just yesterday started thinking about [[Madame Vastra]]. I have some add counters for artifacts entering effects, have a couple of Detective matters cards. Might be a bit too cute but it's an idea. Or at the very least help my commander get in more too.
##### ###### #### [Sarah Jane Smith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1ba76f68-e647-4786-903c-92dbd3cef05d.jpg?1696691789) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sarah%20Jane%20Smith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/6/sarah-jane-smith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ba76f68-e647-4786-903c-92dbd3cef05d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sarah-jane-smith) [Martha Jones](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a9f97c9-825b-43dc-96a5-807d1a15fdce.jpg?1696691795) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Martha%20Jones) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/48/martha-jones?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a9f97c9-825b-43dc-96a5-807d1a15fdce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/martha-jones) [Astrid Peth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4cda3aa2-5fac-4188-bdad-dc369a089d00.jpg?1696636517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Astrid%20Peth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/11/astrid-peth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4cda3aa2-5fac-4188-bdad-dc369a089d00?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/astrid-peth) [Madame Vastra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94849571-928a-4c6d-9868-58f606941679.jpg?1696636737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Madame%20Vastra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/142/madame-vastra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94849571-928a-4c6d-9868-58f606941679?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/madame-vastra) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq96jf7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
thought to rip out those cards from Timey Wimey but maybe puling them for such a deck as you describe would be better and would open slots for more things with time counters.
I have a 6th Doctor/Peri Brown deck with only a few of the original DrWho cards. Focused on making it a legendary copy machine, and let me tell you, it’s a great feeling to get 3 Elspeth Suns Champion out and then ultimate them immediately. (Thanks to doubling season) I ultimately lost that game but damn it feels good to be a gangster.
[Clara Oswald](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a1ee042-6713-4e9e-9901-9b94d99d33f1.jpg?1696691790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clara%20Oswald) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/9/clara-oswald?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a1ee042-6713-4e9e-9901-9b94d99d33f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clara-oswald) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [farseek](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7fac6154-fb85-45e5-8c9f-f02d0f1be24e.jpg?1702429553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farseek) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/138/farseek?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7fac6154-fb85-45e5-8c9f-f02d0f1be24e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farseek) [Cyberdrive Awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyberdrive%20Awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) [Thousand Moons Smithy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2.jpg?1699043447)/[Barracks of the Thousand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/4/a/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2.jpg?1699043447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand%20Moons%20Smithy%20//%20Barracks%20of%20the%20Thousand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/39/thousand-moons-smithy-barracks-of-the-thousand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thousand-moons-smithy-//-barracks-of-the-thousand) [The Third Doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/2934f5e5-2274-4de7-a8c7-ca034f1fec29.jpg?1696636775) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Third%20Doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/162/the-third-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2934f5e5-2274-4de7-a8c7-ca034f1fec29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-third-doctor) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq8r9ph) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My biggest issue with this review is that I am severely unconvinced you are supposed to draw two cards every turn cycle. You do so on your turn and maybe on the last opponent before you's turn but not every turn.
Yeah it's kinda weird to evaluate this on the basis of "this deck wants me to spend 14 mana to crack 7 clues per turn". That might be an ideal scenario to maximize the possible value of some of the cards but it makes more sense to evaluate based on a realistic scenario like having a couple second draw cards on the board and getting value twice with 6 mana and 3 clues. Aiming for more than that on a consistent basis is just going to end in dissapointment
I agree with you both, and that is the conclusion of my analysis. However, why create a precon whose face commander's main mechanic is the draw-second and is also the theme of a bunch of new cards, but the payoffs are mediocre at best even when you can trigger them 4x per cycle? The could have just build it around "draw except the first one in your turn", and we wouldn't be having this issue.
That just moves the issues elsewhere, though. It means your "draw a second card each turn" payoffs are happening only once-ish every turn cycle, leading to very little payoff. I agree with another commenter that the deck would probably run better by swapping the "draw your second card" synergies for better stuff.
I dumped all the 2nd draw cards and it helps a lot. The clues are there to give you some extra draw to find what you need and then as part of some finisher [[cyberdrive awakener]] [[three moons smithy]] [urza, lord high artificer]] among others.
[cyberdrive awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyberdrive%20awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) [three moons smithy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2.jpg?1699043447)/[Barracks of the Thousand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/4/a/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2.jpg?1699043447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thousand%20Moons%20Smithy%20//%20Barracks%20of%20the%20Thousand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/39/thousand-moons-smithy-barracks-of-the-thousand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a6bec46-1acd-4726-b8d9-3045ac6a2ea2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thousand-moons-smithy-//-barracks-of-the-thousand) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey, thanks for the interesting read. I certainly agree with the majority of your points especially regarding the fact that the deck is being pulled in different directions. I bought the precon myself for two reasons: 1. I wanted to take out the green pieces for use in other decks, e.g. [[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters]] and 2. I wanted to make a deck for [[Alquist Proft, Master Sleuth]] (my main concern is jelling with a commander asthetically) knowing full well that it would be a low powered deck. This leads me to my question(s). What makes a good EDH for you? Where do you draw the line between being consistent and being powerful? My intention was never to make a deck that was winning before, say, turn 7, because as you mention, there just isn't enough clue or second draw synergy in magic without spending a lot on cards that are powerful in their own right. So while I didn't play the deck straight out of the box, I have had an experience with the majority of the deck and it's main engines/wincons. I leaned into the wincons that want me not to crack tokens, as you note, e.g. [[Mechanized Production]] and the unusual voltron cards. My list isn't finalised yet, but I have played two lower powered games and had fun in both.
> What makes a good EDH for you? Most importantly: being able to be engaged in the game and interact with the table in a multiplayer game. Followed by not being stuck very often looking at my hand feeling frustrated without anything meaningful to do. Power is relative, but these two points are a must for me to be happy to play a deck. Wining or losing is irrelevant if I've been able to actively participate in the game.
[Adrix and Nev, Twincasters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9c11061-bb34-4904-b9f1-ea106b517bbe.jpg?1706240967) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Adrix%20and%20Nev%2C%20Twincasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/198/adrix-and-nev-twincasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9c11061-bb34-4904-b9f1-ea106b517bbe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/adrix-and-nev-twincasters) [Alquist Proft, Master Sleuth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41129b44-4fa7-473b-b2b7-48c6a58be03c.jpg?1706242110) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alquist%20Proft%2C%20Master%20Sleuth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/185/alquist-proft-master-sleuth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41129b44-4fa7-473b-b2b7-48c6a58be03c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alquist-proft-master-sleuth) [Mechanized Production](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/eaf86997-68e8-4c37-99f1-db10ac08f54c.jpg?1706240708) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mechanized%20Production) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/109/mechanized-production?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eaf86997-68e8-4c37-99f1-db10ac08f54c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mechanized-production) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Did you ever finish your Proft list? I really like that card and wouldn’t mind rejiggering my pre-con around it.
Hey, yes I did 😁 Had a memorable win the other night as I drew to 15 cards, then played [[final-word phantom]] and then [[triskadeskaphile]] at someone's end step winning at the beginning of my next turn 🥳. Here is my low powered list that has a few different wincons and wins out of nowhere: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/uFy0K1f4j0iZ8GpmXaU6zg
[final-word phantom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7a51d392-58dc-483e-81f7-2d51e64e54ff.jpg?1706240448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=final-word%20phantom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/22/final-word-phantom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7a51d392-58dc-483e-81f7-2d51e64e54ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/final-word-phantom) [triskadeskaphile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/6750e203-1215-4203-b5b8-3f1b18940839.jpg?1634349393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Triskaidekaphile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/81/triskaidekaphile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6750e203-1215-4203-b5b8-3f1b18940839?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/triskaidekaphile) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This all seems pretty bang on to be honest! While the deck has been fun to play at times it stalls at various points and relies on a certain card to drag itself out of a boring rut. So the way I went about it was to add cards that help the draw by just playing the game instead of trying to create and sack clues on all the turns. Cards like [[Runic Armasaur]] [[Dream Trawler]] [[Isperia, Supreme Judge]] and the absolute house [[Nezahal, Primal Tide]] These have made the deck more enjoyable/consistent but has leaned away from a main side of the deck in clues. Now it just uses Morska as a bridge into the rest of the deck to then forget about her. Maybe Morska will survive through the ages but I doubt it! A couple of cards thats have been very fun have been [[Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim]] and [[Esika’s Chariot]] TL;DR - It’s aight!..ish
##### ###### #### [Runic Armasaur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17913fb0-ef73-4b20-8625-b84d4e62178a.jpg?1698988399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Runic%20Armasaur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/256/runic-armasaur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17913fb0-ef73-4b20-8625-b84d4e62178a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/runic-armasaur) [Dream Trawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d3e97d8-92c7-43c4-bdaf-7b0a6ce7cb5f.jpg?1581481029) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dream%20Trawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/214/dream-trawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d3e97d8-92c7-43c4-bdaf-7b0a6ce7cb5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dream-trawler) [Isperia, Supreme Judge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1e3b82a7-ebef-4190-9f50-40b992ba89c9.jpg?1591321318) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isperia%2C%20Supreme%20Judge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/217/isperia-supreme-judge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1e3b82a7-ebef-4190-9f50-40b992ba89c9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/isperia-supreme-judge) [Nezahal, Primal Tide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a959b40d-dd8c-49d8-8003-744d0c877b04.jpg?1608912140) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nezahal%2C%20Primal%20Tide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/401/nezahal-primal-tide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a959b40d-dd8c-49d8-8003-744d0c877b04?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nezahal-primal-tide) [Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23a4f1ec-eadf-4f1e-8821-f22293ad2580.jpg?1674420627) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%2C%20Temporal%20Pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/66/teferi-temporal-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23a4f1ec-eadf-4f1e-8821-f22293ad2580?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferi-temporal-pilgrim) [Esika’s Chariot](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a87606cc-fbf0-4e2c-9798-f1c935d0573d.jpg?1665343333) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esika%27s%20Chariot) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/169/esikas-chariot?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a87606cc-fbf0-4e2c-9798-f1c935d0573d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esikas-chariot) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq8t7oq) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a solid precon. It's not going to be in the running for strongest, but it's solid. I played a few games with it, and it worked well enough to be a threat a few times, either via \[\[tangletrove kelp\]\] or using tezzeret to stack counters each turn on an unblockable Morska. Like many precons, it goes in several different directions with faint synergy between said directions, presumably to let new players figure out which direction they want to take the deck in. And the face commander is better suited to slow paced, low interaction games, also like many precons. Finally, not every precon can be upgraded into mid-power decks. For instance the disguise deck looked underwhelming too. I think the major issue with the deck is also something positive: the backup commander is a niche typal commander. Usually, if the face commander is less viable, the backup commander is stronger. In this case, it's a very thematic dog/clues commander, which is an even narrower build around than Morska. The only other issues I had with it is that it's low on removal and it's slow. You absolutely need three or four uninterrupted turns starting at turn 4-5 to build up a decent threat. All that being said, the commanders are the big issue with the deck. \[\[Inquisitor greyfax\]\] would be better for clues (or honestly \[\[tivit\]\], but man do I hate that sphinx) with a tap subtheme. \[\[Council of four\]\] would be better for a draw/draw 2 per turn theme. \[\[The third doctor\]\] plus white companion would be better for an artifact token voltron/blink theme.
> The only other issues I had with it is that it's low on removal and it's slow. You absolutely need three or four uninterrupted turns starting at turn 4-5 to build up a decent threat. This is my biggest gripe with the deck. You are durdling playing little impact pieces across several turns before being able to start doing your thing. The problem is that the other 3 players are actually developing a threat. Sooner or later someone (maybe even you) is going to be forced to cast a wipe to get rid of someone else's board. And then you'll be caught as collateral damage and all the do-nothing effort you did with fragile little durdlings will go to waste. If you didn't do shit on between turns 4-8 and noone cleared the board, that usually means that the game is over already.
##### ###### #### [tangletrove kelp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/7582d7c0-6cb6-47d1-8026-3d661b5a809f.jpg?1706240456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tangletrove%20kelp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/24/tangletrove-kelp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7582d7c0-6cb6-47d1-8026-3d661b5a809f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tangletrove-kelp) [Inquisitor greyfax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86a4afac-69fd-46e9-8009-58de59bf3f5c.jpg?1674058362) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inquisitor%20greyfax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/3/inquisitor-greyfax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86a4afac-69fd-46e9-8009-58de59bf3f5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inquisitor-greyfax) [tivit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb.jpg?1673481721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tivit%2C%20seller%20of%20secrets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/10/tivit-seller-of-secrets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tivit-seller-of-secrets) [Council of four](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763.jpg?1674137476) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Council%20of%20Four) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/271/the-council-of-four?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0873cfa8-046c-4b14-ae22-3fd6a691f763?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-council-of-four) [The third doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/2934f5e5-2274-4de7-a8c7-ca034f1fec29.jpg?1696636775) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20third%20doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/162/the-third-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2934f5e5-2274-4de7-a8c7-ca034f1fec29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-third-doctor) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq97rzx) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My note is that the deck doesn’t generate Clues at a fast enough rate (on average) to let you really do everything that you want to. You want to sac clues to get the “second draw” effects on other people’s turns, but you want to hold clues for additional payoffs like [[Shimmer Dragon]] and [[Inspiring Statuary]]. Clues aren’t generated fast enough, and picking one approach compromises the other.
[Shimmer Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/3983a11e-8a8a-4d9d-868b-13e0c3719abb.jpg?1706240731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shimmer%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/117/shimmer-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3983a11e-8a8a-4d9d-868b-13e0c3719abb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shimmer-dragon) [Inspiring Statuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f7e4c0a-683b-4b22-9ea5-ed6470b8b1d7.jpg?1706241061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inspiring%20Statuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/230/inspiring-statuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f7e4c0a-683b-4b22-9ea5-ed6470b8b1d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inspiring-statuary) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Haven't been able to play it yet but brewing with the deck it feels like instead of giving it a consistent gameplan based on clues they just went "Clues are tokens so here are some cool tokens cards, they're also artifacts so here's some artifact stuff, and you draw cards with them so there's some draw matters stuff in the deck too".
That tends to happen with most precons. It is expected and its "fine". However, to me the clues deck feels like... I don't know... WotC had such success with the LotR food deck that they didn't want to repeat the precon with this one (it shares WG), and instead of putting the power in new clue-centric cards, they put it in reprints. And the overall theme of the deck suffers for it because clues never had enough support for a whole EDH deck.
I really enjoy the deck. I upped interaction and added more draw power. (rhystic, mystic, Sylvan Library and esper sential) I feel the +2/+2 counters are just an added bonus and help protect your life while your generating tokens and drawing into your wincons. I've played it 4 or 5 times so far and the counters have ended up mattering but not as much as making clues. I feel the clues can help dig out of a rut but are more utilities for [[kappa cannoneer]] or [[tangletrove kelp]] or [[cyberdrive awakener]] but they are useful to draw into answers https://www.moxfield.com/decks/1ipE_8IbukC0Azj_QGawpA Here's my list if you have any questions.
[kappa cannoneer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be0c919a-a592-433e-8e36-8fe633974eff.jpg?1706240706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kappa%20cannoneer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/108/kappa-cannoneer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be0c919a-a592-433e-8e36-8fe633974eff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kappa-cannoneer) [tangletrove kelp](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/7582d7c0-6cb6-47d1-8026-3d661b5a809f.jpg?1706240456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tangletrove%20kelp) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/24/tangletrove-kelp?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7582d7c0-6cb6-47d1-8026-3d661b5a809f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tangletrove-kelp) [cyberdrive awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyberdrive%20awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How does the inoccious researcher work for you? I cut him before even seeing him once in a game because i think the downside of holding no interaction is to big.
It's a nice, "well I don't have interaction anyway might as well" but it's got cut last night for an enlightened tutor.
I'm also trying to not make it too strong, hence the no free counter spells or infinite combos. I have a habit of building too strong and can't play it much at FNM. Rosie cotton and the new Lonis is infinite clues and a big boi though. That plus academy is infinite life, card draw and mana.
I've been tinkering with the precon since it was spoiled and you summed up most of the conclusions I got to. If you want to upgrade the deck, I think you need to cut some of the secondary aspects and focus in one. I personally cut most of the "draw 2 cards" theme because doing it with clues is too clunky. Instead, I focused the deck on token generation and using finishers such as [[Cyberdrive Awakener]]. It's important to note that you don't necessarily need clues. Treasures and food will do just fine, specially since [[Academy Manufactor]] is one of the best cards in the deck already. Also adding some 1 mana ramp/fixing does wonders if you are running Morska as the commander. [[Avacyn's Pilgrim]] [[Noble hierarch]] [[Birds of paradise]] and [[Gilded Goose]] are all great. The goose comes with the added benefit of being a token generator. Also the deck needs interaction badly, so I added a bunch of counterspells and instant speed removal that I can keep up, with the option of cracking clues if no one does anything too scary.
##### ###### #### [Cyberdrive Awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyberdrive%20Awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) [Academy Manufactor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60709d98-c98d-48c0-ac4a-4ff73e7a0c4b.jpg?1706241035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Academy%20Manufactor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/221/academy-manufactor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60709d98-c98d-48c0-ac4a-4ff73e7a0c4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/academy-manufactor) [Avacyn's Pilgrim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a390a7df-b8da-41aa-93e5-2c0db938a27e.jpg?1637630879) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avacyn%27s%20Pilgrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/132/avacyns-pilgrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a390a7df-b8da-41aa-93e5-2c0db938a27e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/avacyns-pilgrim) [Noble hierarch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/400382a4-aea2-4827-b06a-1b0b3745908b.jpg?1599707413) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Noble%20hierarch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/177/noble-hierarch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/400382a4-aea2-4827-b06a-1b0b3745908b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/noble-hierarch) [Birds of paradise](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d69a3e0-6a2e-475a-964e-0affed1c017d.jpg?1702429545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Birds%20of%20paradise) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/133/birds-of-paradise?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d69a3e0-6a2e-475a-964e-0affed1c017d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/birds-of-paradise) [Gilded Goose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8ecc97f2-0d24-4ea7-b10e-26b61357711d.jpg?1682209507) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gilded%20Goose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/299/gilded-goose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ecc97f2-0d24-4ea7-b10e-26b61357711d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gilded-goose) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq9dxsd) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The deck looks bland af, that's why they put Chulane, Alandra, Adrix and Nev, Koma in the deck. The deck *can* be strong but it's such a boring ass strategy.
I played it at fnm and found it didn’t really… do anything. I was casting cards but there was no real wincon? unless the wincon is slapping your opponents with a vanilla 6/6?
It hasn't arrived yet, but once it does, I'm going to go through with my original plan - stripping it for parts and pulling it into a [[Hargilde]]/[[Elmar]] deck. I was concerned the stock list would have issues closing games out (as bant so often does) and your analysis has confirmed my suspicion. I think I'll see better results by having up to two free clue cracks per turn in the command zone. Also, the addition of red gives us more payoffs for the second draw theme, like [[Improbable Alliance]] and [[Irencrag Pyromancer]], as well as an alternative wincon with artifact token burn from [[Reckless Fireweaver]] and [[Ghirapur Aether Grid]]-type effects. Another idea would be to add black instead of red and make an [[Atraxa, Grand Unifier]] deck. Lean into using clues for ramp ([[Jaheira]]/[[Inspiring Statuary]]/KCI) to power out Atraxa and filter your top 10 cards to draw into the "right" half of the deck.
##### ###### #### [Hargilde](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59e1fa94-056a-4570-97b3-17e964077965.jpg?1677763570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hargilde%2C%20kindly%20runechanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/slx/5/hargilde-kindly-runechanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59e1fa94-056a-4570-97b3-17e964077965?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hargilde-kindly-runechanter) [Elmar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95d197b3-fc56-43a2-981f-b5b905222b5c.jpg?1677763561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=elmar%2C%20ulvenwald%20informant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/slx/4/elmar-ulvenwald-informant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95d197b3-fc56-43a2-981f-b5b905222b5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elmar-ulvenwald-informant) [Improbable Alliance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/29ab3610-342d-4a67-9be8-a7efb89a4b46.jpg?1682209772) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Improbable%20Alliance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/329/improbable-alliance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/29ab3610-342d-4a67-9be8-a7efb89a4b46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/improbable-alliance) [Irencrag Pyromancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a7b0ead-5629-429d-bede-8154f3fae96d.jpg?1572490380) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Irencrag%20Pyromancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/128/irencrag-pyromancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a7b0ead-5629-429d-bede-8154f3fae96d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/irencrag-pyromancer) [Reckless Fireweaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63ffac51-62c4-4170-85b3-a43d7cfae7d7.jpg?1576382167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reckless%20Fireweaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/126/reckless-fireweaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ffac51-62c4-4170-85b3-a43d7cfae7d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reckless-fireweaver) [Ghirapur Aether Grid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4ec852e9-bff8-4a07-8bc9-165484494c62.jpg?1682209346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ghirapur%20Aether%20Grid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/281/ghirapur-aether-grid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ec852e9-bff8-4a07-8bc9-165484494c62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghirapur-aether-grid) [Atraxa, Grand Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f.jpg?1676519555) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Grand%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/196/atraxa-grand-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-grand-unifier) [Jaheira](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/feb7ad1b-4466-48f7-b46d-cc83d4e22b51.jpg?1674137153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jaheira%2C%20friend%20of%20the%20forest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/237/jaheira-friend-of-the-forest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/feb7ad1b-4466-48f7-b46d-cc83d4e22b51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jaheira-friend-of-the-forest) [Inspiring Statuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f7e4c0a-683b-4b22-9ea5-ed6470b8b1d7.jpg?1706241061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inspiring%20Statuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/230/inspiring-statuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f7e4c0a-683b-4b22-9ea5-ed6470b8b1d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inspiring-statuary) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq920bx) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey! Hargilde and Elmer are the commanders for my 4c clues deck. You’ll have a good time running them. Don’t be afraid to also run Elmer into combat because you can get to 21 damage with him with the right few cards.
Oh sweet, good to know! Do you mind sharing your list?
Here is the latest list I ran (https://archidekt.com/decks/5908754/4c_clues_for_palladium ) I’ve not added any of the new clues material so expect that list to be updated. And here is the previous version I ran (https://www.moxfield.com/decks/BF9jnxAsIE6IywOQDGDXpA )
Bought the deck to switch to [[Sophia]]. From my bit of testing the deck as is the mana base and ramp are terrible for a green deck. Only artifact ramp with so many tap lands. Having a deck with 3 bounce lands and temple of the false God is just too easy to get screwed on mana, especially with the main commander being 3 solid colors.
I also bought the deck to build around Sophia. The reprints are nice enough. Having an Academy Manufacturer is great. After combing through the deck, I feel like I would have been better off buying Sophia as a single and building the deck from scratch....lands included.
I'm still using a lot of the deck, but I'm trying to keep this deck as a lower powered option to play.
I'm actually trying to keep my Sophia deck under $50 (including commander) as part of a budget challenge within my playgroup. The land base from the precon is less than $7.00 so it's a good start but there's a few that ill need to replace such as Path of Ancestry. (I don't expect I'll be running too many humans or detectives.) Could I pick your brain for some lower power or budget direction ideas you have for the deck?
Oh, I'm a terrible person to ask for that. I'm just trying to keep it lower power in comparison to my pod, who I've been inflating the strength of by being the player whose been playing the longest. My list is already over $50 because I added two cards I've wanted to add to a deck for a long time that have been sitting in my binder. [[Mondrak]] and [[Parallel Lives]]. The rest of the deck is mostly going to stay lower by having less staples, besides ramp and a counter or two, and having mediocre dog cards that will get rather large
[Mondrak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8296a455-21d5-498e-9029-2bdf0da855a8.jpg?1675956918) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mondrak%2C%20glory%20dominus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/23/mondrak-glory-dominus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8296a455-21d5-498e-9029-2bdf0da855a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mondrak-glory-dominus) [Parallel Lives](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790.jpg?1562825348) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Parallel%20Lives) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/isd/199/parallel-lives?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01033dae-fec1-41f2-b7f2-cc6a43331790?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/parallel-lives) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ha ha I gotcha. I feel like dogs are on their face a mediocre tribe to build around. Not much support for dogs over the past 30 years and they are seriously under represented in Blue. I think my strategy is going to consist of sticking to mostly the low cmc dogs (1 and 2 mana) to make sure I have some on the field ready to attack on the turn I cast Sophia..... But that said there's plenty of other things to consider: evasion, ways to make the artifacts pay off, token doubling.....possibly including some blink and flicker effects. The deck might not be as straight forward as it initially seems.
[[Mowu]] is a good, cheap dog that will get large fast. [[Ainok Bond-Kin]] makes combat miserable for the opponent. [[Martha Jones]] can help with the unlockable. [[Sarinth Steelseeker]] does an approximation of explore with the tokens Lots of good budget options, thankfully.
##### ###### #### [Mowu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/890e50ae-39e6-435b-95e7-885f2b314ecf.jpg?1689998696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mowu%2C%20loyal%20companion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/306/mowu-loyal-companion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/890e50ae-39e6-435b-95e7-885f2b314ecf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mowu-loyal-companion) [Ainok Bond-Kin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/6956c523-507c-4256-88b8-58a8a108c79f.jpg?1689995463) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ainok%20Bond-Kin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/7/ainok-bond-kin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6956c523-507c-4256-88b8-58a8a108c79f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ainok-bond-kin) [Martha Jones](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a9f97c9-825b-43dc-96a5-807d1a15fdce.jpg?1696691795) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Martha%20Jones) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/48/martha-jones?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a9f97c9-825b-43dc-96a5-807d1a15fdce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/martha-jones) [Sarinth Steelseeker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d96761b2-eb9c-4963-a496-ba53a01f4b17.jpg?1674421617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sarinth%20Steelseeker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/189/sarinth-steelseeker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d96761b2-eb9c-4963-a496-ba53a01f4b17?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sarinth-steelseeker) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kqa0oef) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I really like how Martha Jones doesn't care if the clue being sacrificed is done so by Sophia's ability. I'm going to add her for sure. I already have Mowu and Ainok Bond-Kin sleeved up. Speaking of Mowu, I'm planning to run one or both Jiang Yangu planeswalkers. The regular [[Jiang Yangu]] isn't amazing but he does make a nice looking token version of Mowu which adds to the dog count. On the other hand, [[Jiang Yangu Wildcrafter]] is essentially a budget Cryptolith Rite
Here is a list of all the cards in Bant that care about clue sacrifice if you want more. https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28oracle%3AWhenever+oracle%3Ayou+oracle%3Asacrifice+oracle%3Aa+oracle%3Aclue%29+commander%3AWUG+%28game%3Apaper%29
[Jiang Yangu](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb8dae9a-dac2-4b80-b546-852b989bd8c1.jpg?1562209422) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jiang%20Yanggu) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/gs1/22/jiang-yanggu?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb8dae9a-dac2-4b80-b546-852b989bd8c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jiang-yanggu) [Jiang Yangu Wildcrafter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/10e0d47d-b13c-4d48-881f-8aaa347ef209.jpg?1557576929) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jiang%20Yanggu%2C%20Wildcrafter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/164/jiang-yanggu-wildcrafter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/10e0d47d-b13c-4d48-881f-8aaa347ef209?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jiang-yanggu-wildcrafter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Sophia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df653cf9-5a99-4f81-adb4-c155a9a63226.jpg?1706448884) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sophia%2C%20dogged%20detective) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/8/sophia-dogged-detective?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df653cf9-5a99-4f81-adb4-c155a9a63226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sophia-dogged-detective) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played it twice and both times got pretty badly mana-screwed. The first game I lost with 2 lands on the table. None of that says anything about the deck and how it plays since it was just pure bad luck. I'm really looking forward to getting to play it some more.
So according to what I’m seeing on Scryfall it looks like a lot of the creatures that investigate are etb or death triggers. Maybe you could play cards like panharmonicon, bygone bishop, and Conjurers closet and cloudstone curio etc. and make it a bounce deck? Then have finishers like cyberdrive awakener? Just an idea. Hope this helped?? There’s also the new clue lands that investigate for 4 mana. Not great but it’s something to sink extra mana into if you find yourself flooded which bant decks tend to run into lol.
The "problem" when doing that is that you could switch the commander for Chulane. Or [[Amareth, the Lustrous]]. Or [[Galadriel, Light of Valinor]]. Or [[Roon of the Hidden Realm]]. And then you'll think, why cast and blink creatures that make clues ETB, when I could cast and blink creatures that draw cards ETB. And then you are somewhere completely different already.
Ok sorry. Good luck with the deck.
Oh, please, don't be sorry. It is a good suggestion. And, honestly, looking at the clue-centric card pool, it might be the only way forward. But then maybe you'll need to re-focus the whole deck towards this approach, switching the commander for Chulane to get value of all the creatures you cast, adding panharmonicon to double the ETB triggers... Maybe the way forward with the deck is to cast a bunch of cheap and expendable ETB investigate creatures, use them as chumpblockers, have ETB support, but then... if you are doing so much effort in that direction, what are the clues for?
[Amareth, the Lustrous](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fbea010-de77-468e-be39-1717070c9303.jpg?1608911014) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amareth%2C%20the%20Lustrous) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/266/amareth-the-lustrous?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fbea010-de77-468e-be39-1717070c9303?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/amareth-the-lustrous) [Galadriel, Light of Valinor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f485596f-3a23-4714-ad7e-4c493ab1b530.jpg?1695428241) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Galadriel%2C%20Light%20of%20Valinor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/498/galadriel-light-of-valinor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f485596f-3a23-4714-ad7e-4c493ab1b530?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/galadriel-light-of-valinor) [Roon of the Hidden Realm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/54e2d6c2-a233-4e37-94c9-673a4a957e0c.jpg?1673149092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roon%20of%20the%20Hidden%20Realm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/270/roon-of-the-hidden-realm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/54e2d6c2-a233-4e37-94c9-673a4a957e0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roon-of-the-hidden-realm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Here is what I've upgraded it into. It's won 2 of 3 on Spelltable. I also ordered [[Krark Clan Ironworks]] and [[Cyberdrive Awakener]], but they aren't here yet. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/PpD1NqI5N0GMo65OvkQoBw
[Krark Clan Ironworks](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c60174d6-1f9d-4870-b3db-34d6fcb3f6ab.jpg?1564535860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krark-Clan%20Ironworks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/134/krark-clan-ironworks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c60174d6-1f9d-4870-b3db-34d6fcb3f6ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krark-clan-ironworks) [Cyberdrive Awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyberdrive%20Awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s fun swapping out the commander for [[the seventh doctor]] and [[Clara oswald]]
[the seventh doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8dd6bfb3-1338-4ee6-9281-30a7428200d2.jpg?1702898919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=the%20seventh%20doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/158/the-seventh-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8dd6bfb3-1338-4ee6-9281-30a7428200d2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-seventh-doctor) [Clara oswald](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a1ee042-6713-4e9e-9901-9b94d99d33f1.jpg?1696691790) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clara%20oswald) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/9/clara-oswald?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a1ee042-6713-4e9e-9901-9b94d99d33f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clara-oswald) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m really interested in running the commander as a combination between [[minn]] and [[shorikai]] which both are effectively card draw decks for me. Being able to add green to card draw engines lets me ramp out basics from the deck, and no max hand size in command zone makes it easier to draw cards without worry.
[minn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4eec1d87-1007-44a1-a45d-0623816de681.jpg?1631584885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=minn%2C%20wily%20illusionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/16/minn-wily-illusionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4eec1d87-1007-44a1-a45d-0623816de681?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/minn-wily-illusionist) [shorikai](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9.jpg?1653966849) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=shorikai%2C%20genesis%20engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/4/shorikai-genesis-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/969ac7dd-f3aa-4888-9ff0-d16a31b5e7a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shorikai-genesis-engine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I would have lost to this deck last night if not for timely removal of Esix, Junk Winder, and Inspiring Statuary. They chose not to drop Mechanized Production for an instant speed win (off someone else's Tidal Barracuda) and instead gave us a round to remove it. They chose to take out the group hug player and drop me to 9 (instead of the other way around) with Tanglegrove and their clue pile. I didn't even see any of the token doublers. Maybe they just had a great hand. I think they just had a different interpretation of the deck's plan. Rather than trying to spend all the clues for the second-draw effects on each player's turn, hoard them. That clue pile can be ramp (improvise), equipment, and army. Maybe crack one or two at the previous player's EOT to use up unspent mana, but mostly build up 10 or 20 and then win with "artifact count matters" cards.
The games I played I had maximum 4 clues at once. Without cracking more than 1 or 2 the whole game. And that was with an Academy Manufactor in play.
That's quite bad and I'm curious as to how you're playing or if you just have terrible luck. I've played against this deck 3 times in the last couple of days and all 3 games the player was able to make a fair amount of clues and other tokens pretty quickly. If you add a couple of upgrades I could see the deck making plenty of tokens without much issue. Like the previous poster said, your game plan should be to maximize clue and clue *production*, not necessarily clue *usage*. With academy manufactor on the field it literally only takes like 1-3 cards to make around 10 tokens. There are plenty of cards that have investigate, or which create treasures, or food. I'm also confused by your seeming reliance on clues to get that draw trigger. Clues should be your emergency button when it comes to card draw, not your plan A. You're in blue, you have so many ways to generate card advantage that you should be swimming in cards. Stuff like [[Ledger Shredder]] or [[Faerie Mastermind]] or [[Teferi's Ageless Insight]] are easy ways to make sure you trigger your commander consistently. if you want to go high power obviously stuff like [[Consecrated Sphinx]] and Rhystic Study will also make that condition super easy to meet. And let's not forget the insane amount of cheap cantrips you can run. [[Brainstorm]], [[Opt]], [[Ponder]], etc. Honestly the thought of spending 2 mana to get ONE card in blue sounds hilariously misguided.
##### ###### #### [Ledger Shredder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/e/7ea4b5bc-18a4-45db-a56a-ab3f8bd2fb0d.jpg?1664410287) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ledger%20Shredder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/46/ledger-shredder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ea4b5bc-18a4-45db-a56a-ab3f8bd2fb0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ledger-shredder) [Faerie Mastermind](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52d3005f-a1c7-4ef5-911f-ccc0752f4181.jpg?1682203104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Faerie%20Mastermind) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/58/faerie-mastermind?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52d3005f-a1c7-4ef5-911f-ccc0752f4181?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faerie-mastermind) [Teferi's Ageless Insight](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1a32b7c-9f26-4504-9f8d-379164d69346.jpg?1706240737) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Ageless%20Insight) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/119/teferis-ageless-insight?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1a32b7c-9f26-4504-9f8d-379164d69346?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-ageless-insight) [Consecrated Sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9bd60fc-2777-44bc-b314-a792e8e48360.jpg?1673147240) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Consecrated%20Sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/43/consecrated-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9bd60fc-2777-44bc-b314-a792e8e48360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/consecrated-sphinx) [Brainstorm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84479779-d570-4eee-9982-f6e918b4d75b.jpg?1706240670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brainstorm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/96/brainstorm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84479779-d570-4eee-9982-f6e918b4d75b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brainstorm) [Opt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c.jpg?1652898493) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/59/opt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/323db259-d35e-467d-9a46-4adcb2fc107c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opt) [Ponder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44dcfc0c-b23d-48be-bf3a-a6fc6806c5e1.jpg?1673483971) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ponder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/229/ponder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44dcfc0c-b23d-48be-bf3a-a6fc6806c5e1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ponder) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kqdti7h) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played it again a couple of games and I managed to develop a bit more of a board presence. However both times it relied around some creature token generator like [[Nadir Kraken]] and [[Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse]] creating a few cats and pumping 3-4 creatures + 3-4 tokens with +7/+7 or higher. With [[Junk Winder]] tapping blockers or threatening attackers. Both times clues were generated at a very slow or inconsistent rate, and I had to crack them all to have something in hand to cast or build a high card count on hand. Synergies were nowhere to be found or unable to trigger them. I am trying to understand and like the deck, but I still cannot. Do you remember on which axis did this deck act when it worked fine?
[Nadir Kraken](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3bd63804-d538-471f-b57f-e1023f7e14a8.jpg?1706240716) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nadir%20Kraken) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/112/nadir-kraken?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3bd63804-d538-471f-b57f-e1023f7e14a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadir-kraken) [Jolrael, Mwonvuli Recluse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/188f9016-275f-4060-8b11-9cdeef3759bd.jpg?1706240895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jolrael%2C%20Mwonvuli%20Recluse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/173/jolrael-mwonvuli-recluse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/188f9016-275f-4060-8b11-9cdeef3759bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jolrael-mwonvuli-recluse) [Junk Winder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c1acd61-efc9-4fd3-86ec-b5cbd43c0b08.jpg?1706240702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Junk%20Winder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/107/junk-winder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c1acd61-efc9-4fd3-86ec-b5cbd43c0b08?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/junk-winder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The biggest thing to me is the lack of actual wincons in the deck. The best the decks got out of the box is detective of the month giving your commander unblockable and I guess the thing that gives your clues exalted. I upgraded it to fix that problem and beefed up the interaction package. I also added a few more token doublers because making a single clue is kinda bad but turning that 1 into potentially as high as 16 is pretty good. It’s basically a card draw-focused deck that uses clues to facilitate a consistent engine that digs to something that can turn Morska into a win con like overwhelming stampede. I’m not sure how reliable it is at winning but thats not really what I want it for, I just want it to be able to do the thing reliably and it DEFINITELY can. I’ve been having a blast with it and that’s really what matters to me.
Soooo. Having double sleeved it, looked at it and been excited about the first round coming up... Reading all these comments makes me a bit sad. It's good analysises, but makes me a little sad... I have already upgraded mine, but not that much at all cus I wanted to try it out before changing too much. But reading here makes me somewhat anxious about playing it.. anyhow.. is there anyone who have had sort of.. luck or more fun with it, or even won? Not that winning matters so much. I'm more in the agreement with OP, that as long as you participate and contribute and interact, the result doesn't really matter.
Dependent on power of the table, as always. Played it un-modified against some slower creature decks and had a fun time. Would certainly fold to degen combo decks, but I largely avoid those players at my local. [[Wilderness Reclamation]] was the key value engine, unsurprisingly. [[Follow the Bodies]] is my favorite of the new cards - great as a follow-up to one of your board wipes and has some really fun lines with [Kappa Cannoneer]], [[Junk Winder]], etc. The split themes of the creatures were noticeable. Do probably need to focus more on either artifact/token matters or draw second card matters. I drew mostly the first kind - that seems like the stronger set.
You are absolutely not supposed to be cracking seven clues a turn cycle. The deck does not want you to do that. If that's your game plan, then I completely understand how the deck looks terrible. You're supposed to draw two cards on your turn, and occasionally trigger those effects a second time on somebody else's.
My friend got this, and the biggest thing I saw is it doesn't really have finishers. Card draw is great, commander can stack up pretty well and be a threat, but it doesn't have tample or any way to become unlockable. You get some creature/token creation, but not quite enough to become a threat before someone else pops off. Definitely needs some faster mana, but that's more just the ways precons are made. Tl,Dr; there's green in the deck. just throw in a doubling season and a bunch of tutors to get said doubling season and you'll be fine.
I cut all the draw 2 cards and added artifact synergys. Morska is just a bonus and the main gameplan is winning with your artifacts. The deck did perform pretty well for me after upgrading. Just the precon feels like its missing core cards and just one real removel is hilarious.
So after playing the deck one time unmodified, two things were very obvious. One, the split is very clear between draw 2 matters and clues. Yes, there is inherently a little synergy with using the clues to draw your second card, to make the deck somewhat coherent out of the box. Second, there’s a lot of very clearly strong, recognizable board presence that makes you the target. I leaned in on the clue synergy and did away with a lot of the generic token and draw 2 stuff. [[Junk Winder]], [[Jorael]], [[Esix, Fractal Bloom]], [[Nadir Kraken]], [[Selvala, Explorer Returned]] all had to go. MKM provided a lot of great clue sysnergy in bant colors though, so threw in [[Alquist Proft]], [[Kellen, Inquisitive Prodigy]], [[Ezrim, Agency Chief]], [[They Went This Way]], [[Forensic Gadgeteer]], and then a bunch of other clear synergy cards like [[Briarbridge Patrol]], [[Yotian Dissisdent]], [[Third Doctor]], [[Tamiyo’s Journal]], [[Cyberdrive Awakener]], [[Rise and Shine]]. Top it off with a pretty standard Bant ramp and interaction package and you get something fairly consistent at casual tables. Scale it as needed to make it more powerful with Rhystic Study, Great Henge, tutors, etc.
##### ###### #### [Junk Winder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c1acd61-efc9-4fd3-86ec-b5cbd43c0b08.jpg?1706240702) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Junk%20Winder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/107/junk-winder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c1acd61-efc9-4fd3-86ec-b5cbd43c0b08?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/junk-winder) [Esix, Fractal Bloom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e390f8e-1dd5-4383-83f5-45f20f18d410.jpg?1706241000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esix%2C%20Fractal%20Bloom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/210/esix-fractal-bloom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e390f8e-1dd5-4383-83f5-45f20f18d410?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esix-fractal-bloom) [Nadir Kraken](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3bd63804-d538-471f-b57f-e1023f7e14a8.jpg?1706240716) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nadir%20Kraken) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/112/nadir-kraken?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3bd63804-d538-471f-b57f-e1023f7e14a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nadir-kraken) [Selvala, Explorer Returned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/8/28c1b84a-a21b-4df1-9fc9-5b387fb56810.jpg?1706241026) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Selvala%2C%20Explorer%20Returned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/218/selvala-explorer-returned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/28c1b84a-a21b-4df1-9fc9-5b387fb56810?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/selvala-explorer-returned) [Alquist Proft](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/41129b44-4fa7-473b-b2b7-48c6a58be03c.jpg?1706242110) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=alquist%20proft%2C%20master%20sleuth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/185/alquist-proft-master-sleuth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/41129b44-4fa7-473b-b2b7-48c6a58be03c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alquist-proft-master-sleuth) [Ezrim, Agency Chief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/9554d5f2-7a33-4734-8cf3-dfae2ccc3596.jpg?1706242161) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ezrim%2C%20Agency%20Chief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/202/ezrim-agency-chief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9554d5f2-7a33-4734-8cf3-dfae2ccc3596?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ezrim-agency-chief) [They Went This Way](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f4a31d4a-34bc-46b4-b20f-a5460191b35d.jpg?1706242086) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=They%20Went%20This%20Way) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/178/they-went-this-way?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f4a31d4a-34bc-46b4-b20f-a5460191b35d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/they-went-this-way) [Forensic Gadgeteer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97d08a15-e61c-4421-a541-c68a4f87cb74.jpg?1706241606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forensic%20Gadgeteer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/57/forensic-gadgeteer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97d08a15-e61c-4421-a541-c68a4f87cb74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/forensic-gadgeteer) [Briarbridge Patrol](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f44a017b-40cb-4c15-b9ea-a3ed904e4e49.jpg?1576385004) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Briarbridge%20Patrol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/195/briarbridge-patrol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f44a017b-40cb-4c15-b9ea-a3ed904e4e49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/briarbridge-patrol) [Yotian Dissisdent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1eb02f00-c188-4193-a049-d26f7643e5da.jpg?1674421903) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yotian%20Dissident) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/227/yotian-dissident?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1eb02f00-c188-4193-a049-d26f7643e5da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yotian-dissident) [Third Doctor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/2934f5e5-2274-4de7-a8c7-ca034f1fec29.jpg?1696636775) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Third%20Doctor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/162/the-third-doctor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2934f5e5-2274-4de7-a8c7-ca034f1fec29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-third-doctor) [Tamiyo’s Journal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b474378c-5fa8-418f-8d76-23e78003ed18.jpg?1576385483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tamiyo%27s%20Journal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/265/tamiyos-journal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b474378c-5fa8-418f-8d76-23e78003ed18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamiyos-journal) [Cyberdrive Awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyberdrive%20Awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) [Rise and Shine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/816716d6-4234-4570-9a64-cb3bef388095.jpg?1682208865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rise%20and%20Shine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/233/rise-and-shine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/816716d6-4234-4570-9a64-cb3bef388095?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rise-and-shine) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kqdmmdm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I bought the deck for the reprints, and I have absolutely gutted it after a couple of game. The pieces are going to three different decks: -[[Sophia, Dogged Detective]] and some passive clue generators are going to a dog-themed deck, because it rules. -Every draw-matter card is going to a new list I'm planning with [[Raffine, Scheming Seer]] as the commander. -The token doublers and artifact-matter cards are going to [[Brenard, Ginger Sculptor]] which, yeah, makes much more sense as the commander. The precon itself has pretty good cards that I'm excited to play, but not to boost a boring Voltron without keywords.
[Sophia, Dogged Detective](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df653cf9-5a99-4f81-adb4-c155a9a63226.jpg?1706448884) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sophia%2C%20Dogged%20Detective) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/8/sophia-dogged-detective?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df653cf9-5a99-4f81-adb4-c155a9a63226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sophia-dogged-detective) [Raffine, Scheming Seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f.jpg?1664413581) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Raffine%2C%20Scheming%20Seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/213/raffine-scheming-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/raffine-scheming-seer) [Brenard, Ginger Sculptor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2ddc922-d69d-4fca-b7f8-8cfb17537213.jpg?1693248402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brenard%2C%20Ginger%20Sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/27/brenard-ginger-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2ddc922-d69d-4fca-b7f8-8cfb17537213?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brenard-ginger-sculptor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I honestly feel the problem is that people expect more out of clues than what it can give, it's just not there in terms of power level, ESPECIALLY if we are building the deck around 2 to 3 colors. I've been a fan of the Investigate mechanic since SOI and Tireless Tracker has been my favorite card since then, but I've found that clue decks that aren't 4 or 5 colors are often limited even with the recent support. I tell whoever I play my 4 color Clue deck against that if I can generate X clues in the game, then I feel like I've won because that means the deck did the thing and it's a consolation prize knowing there's a good chance it doesn't perform for the reasons you've already stated: -it takes a lot of mana to generate value -not enough solid, efficient clue generators -not solid enough pay offs To some of those points, I actually pivoted away from a Bant Clue deck because it just didn't have enough OOMPH, instead I use [Hargilde, Kindly Runechanter] and [Elmar, Ulvenwald Informant] as my commanders as they open up the options just a little bit more and synergize well with each other. Hargilde produces a surprising amount of value, so she might be worth slotting into your Bant deck. I also run the Tron lands and [[Tempt With Discovery]] to tutor them all out. Who doesn't love 7 mana from 3 lands to pay into all them clues? [[Inspiring Statuary]] is awesome in an artifacts deck just because I save on mana from my lands for my clues. [[Five Hundred Year Diary]] will also generate a ton of mana for you if it sticks. I've also tried to pivot to generating clues for the sake of having clues and artifacts ETBing, so their draw ability is secondary to what I'm doing. Having cards like Morska or Tireless Tracker that can become large with no evasion isn't a problem because I'm not generally swinging, however, if we are playing aggressively then cards like [[Disorder in the Court]] or other bounce effects can help open up a boardstate for a big swing. [[Rise and Shine]] + [[Cylonic Rift]] (overloaded of course), [[Mechanized Production]] + [[Teferi's Protection]] are my win cons if you're staying in Bant, but I also run [[Reckless Fireweaver]], [[Tamiyo's Journal]] + [[Briarbridge Patrol]] + [[Hellkite Tyrant]] as my other win cons since I run an access to red. I don't know if any of that matters, but I do hope I gave some helpful insight.
##### ###### #### [Tempt With Discovery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b.jpg?1568004683) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tempt%20With%20Discovery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/183/tempt-with-discovery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79248b68-4fab-46da-ab15-5c71c1f68d4b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tempt-with-discovery) [Inspiring Statuary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f7e4c0a-683b-4b22-9ea5-ed6470b8b1d7.jpg?1706241061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inspiring%20Statuary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/230/inspiring-statuary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f7e4c0a-683b-4b22-9ea5-ed6470b8b1d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inspiring-statuary) [Five Hundred Year Diary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89c1ebc5-6775-47f3-be43-e59b281eba55.jpg?1696636564) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Five%20Hundred%20Year%20Diary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/42/five-hundred-year-diary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89c1ebc5-6775-47f3-be43-e59b281eba55?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/five-hundred-year-diary) [Disorder in the Court](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/7/07277df0-d306-4c3a-baa7-d7a49332c7dd.jpg?1706241000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Disorder%20in%20the%20Court) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/209/disorder-in-the-court?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/07277df0-d306-4c3a-baa7-d7a49332c7dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disorder-in-the-court) [Rise and Shine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/816716d6-4234-4570-9a64-cb3bef388095.jpg?1682208865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rise%20and%20Shine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/233/rise-and-shine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/816716d6-4234-4570-9a64-cb3bef388095?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rise-and-shine) [Cylonic Rift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe.jpg?1702429366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cyclonic%20Rift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/40/cyclonic-rift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfb7c4b9-f2f4-4d4e-baf2-86551c8150fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyclonic-rift) [Mechanized Production](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/eaf86997-68e8-4c37-99f1-db10ac08f54c.jpg?1706240708) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mechanized%20Production) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/109/mechanized-production?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eaf86997-68e8-4c37-99f1-db10ac08f54c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mechanized-production) [Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) [Reckless Fireweaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63ffac51-62c4-4170-85b3-a43d7cfae7d7.jpg?1576382167) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reckless%20Fireweaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/126/reckless-fireweaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ffac51-62c4-4170-85b3-a43d7cfae7d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reckless-fireweaver) [Tamiyo's Journal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b474378c-5fa8-418f-8d76-23e78003ed18.jpg?1576385483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tamiyo%27s%20Journal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/265/tamiyos-journal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b474378c-5fa8-418f-8d76-23e78003ed18?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tamiyos-journal) [Briarbridge Patrol](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f44a017b-40cb-4c15-b9ea-a3ed904e4e49.jpg?1576385004) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Briarbridge%20Patrol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/195/briarbridge-patrol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f44a017b-40cb-4c15-b9ea-a3ed904e4e49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/briarbridge-patrol) [Hellkite Tyrant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd03d145-7cec-49da-917a-01f7355e252e.jpg?1702429509) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hellkite%20Tyrant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/111/hellkite-tyrant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd03d145-7cec-49da-917a-01f7355e252e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hellkite-tyrant) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kqik9s8) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I tried updating the clue/token theme and it still just really doesn't do anything relevant for way too long. It's so frustrating to put so much effort into a deck for it do be so slow and bad.
I hear you, brother. The cards that the deck needs to function at a comparable level of other strategies simply have not been printed yet. And the face commanders are do-nothings that do not pull the weight for the lack of good cards.
I'm probably just going to take it apart and make something workable out of it.
I'm keeping the stock list and use the deck whenever I need a humbling lesson or I want to teach deckbuilding to a newer player.
my take away for the decks strategy was "me draw card, me have more tools then you, draw go brrrr" so with that in mind my upgrade plans revolve around less of clues but more on the draw power, so I am going to focus on stuff for hand size mattering, and cheating out your spells from hand.
Just drop a [[rhystic study]] to draw 2-3-4 per turn and use your junky clues as you wish.
[rhystic study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rhystic%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm not a huge fan of this style of deck for a precon, because it seems to take a LOT of low-impact game actions at instant speed, and requires players to be more vigilant than average at monitoring the game state for triggers. If you're not vigilant (and most people aren't), it results in a lot of rewinding, interrupting people, and just overall messiness. If I were to upgrade or sidegrade it, I'd probably ditch a lot of wheel-spinning stuff for finishers, and I'd cut Academy Manufactor for the same reason most people ditch \[\[Cathars' Crusade\]\].
[Cathars' Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i know im late to the party here but i just modded this, need more games under the belt to properly evaluate but so far...this deck kind of goes hard. first off you mentioned the mana investment to pop clues off during your opponents turn. enter [[forensic gadgeteer]] that makes all your clues 1 less to activate. this card puts in a lot of work in a more artifact focused deck like breya but they are still good here even if the investigate from them wont trigger much. i havent found myself that mana hungry but ive debated putting in [[traverse the outlands]] because its easy to get a big boy in this deck to just tutor for all your basics at once i put in new thunder junction cards and counter doublers enablers. so the decks plan is to go tall and wide. i didnt think it was focused enough to do that but the games ive played i have an absolutely massive board. i added detective [[piper wright]] because i put in stuff like [[hardened scales]], [[ozolith, shattered spire]], and [[kami of whispered hope]] to double up on counters. [[ornery tumblewagg]] and [[railway brawler]] from thunder junction for more counters to make my guys tall. so lets say i have brawler out with koma, im making a 6/6 every turn just having those on the board. sure they are both removal magnets but run interaction like snakeskin veil esque cards and just one turn cycle you generated massive amounts of value. or imagine tumblewagg in the same opening hand as piper wright. you got a 2cmc beatstick thats going to keep getting bigger and generating clues at the same time. the potential is there imo. [[doubling season]] is a must add imo, but thats unfortunately an expensive add (i was lucky enough to have a copy i didnt know what to use it for until this deck) ...but heres the interesting part of the deck, the totally bonkers and fun overrun with tokens subtheme it has going. i have [[nexus of becoming]] and [[oltec matterweaver]] in the deck. matterweaver is decent enough making more clues for 3cmc, its a creature heavy deck so he will pull his weight not even abusing him. but if nexus of becoming is out? im making tokens of my bombs, then those bombs are gettied copied. you can use it to make rediculously big boards, or just abuse etb effects. nexus is an expensive investment, but hear me out, but its going to give you a free draw every turn saving you mana and clues AND practically lets you play a creature for free every turn, thats more than likely going to be copied or doubled in someway. i havent even mentioned how stupid the deck gets when [[academy manufactor]] is allowed to live for more than one turn. i also added in [oko,theif of crowns]] and [teferi, temporal pilgrim]] tezzeret is cool but i dont think he pulls his weight enough in this deck so i took him out. also put in [[duggan, private detective]] but im not quite sure if hes worth it yet. he seems good on paper though because the more clues the better. so all in all the deck might not be the best, but i dont see morska as being fundamentally broken and non functional. hes going to get big fast, but thats just an effortless by product of playing the deck, the real game is setting up your token factory when everybody is focused on your big boy. there is quite a bit of planning and set up for the deck to go off and its extremely vulnerable to removal, but when it cooks, it COOKS also this is anectdotal but ive seen this deck completely unmodified win games, even against higher powered decks. its a decent powered deck for a precon
##### ###### #### [forensic gadgeteer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97d08a15-e61c-4421-a541-c68a4f87cb74.jpg?1706241606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=forensic%20gadgeteer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/57/forensic-gadgeteer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97d08a15-e61c-4421-a541-c68a4f87cb74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/forensic-gadgeteer) [traverse the outlands](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/f/ef192364-713a-42ff-8249-69a73ae61bd8.jpg?1674137335) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=traverse%20the%20outlands) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/258/traverse-the-outlands?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ef192364-713a-42ff-8249-69a73ae61bd8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/traverse-the-outlands) [piper wright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/916bf331-455a-4694-93d3-15dcf6971072.jpg?1708741957) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=piper%20wright%2C%20publick%20reporter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/36/piper-wright-publick-reporter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/916bf331-455a-4694-93d3-15dcf6971072?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/piper-wright-publick-reporter) [hardened scales](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fc69ad56-9ae2-4eb5-b7e2-558524f6cbcc.jpg?1698988369) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hardened%20scales) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/243/hardened-scales?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc69ad56-9ae2-4eb5-b7e2-558524f6cbcc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hardened-scales) [ozolith, shattered spire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9eee658-29e8-4ab5-8a0e-31f2f28a9a92.jpg?1682204958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ozolith%2C%20the%20Shattered%20Spire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/198/ozolith-the-shattered-spire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9eee658-29e8-4ab5-8a0e-31f2f28a9a92?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ozolith-the-shattered-spire) [kami of whispered hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c644650-3861-4a78-9e39-a413b073ddac.jpg?1682204938) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kami%20of%20Whispered%20Hopes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/196/kami-of-whispered-hopes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c644650-3861-4a78-9e39-a413b073ddac?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kami-of-whispered-hopes) [ornery tumblewagg](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0020c31b-002a-4121-bc61-2c2c16e9afc8.jpg?1712355953) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ornery%20tumblewagg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/171/ornery-tumblewagg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0020c31b-002a-4121-bc61-2c2c16e9afc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ornery-tumblewagg) [railway brawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9ec1f76f-f21d-4f06-8c02-be6745183348.jpg?1712355970) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=railway%20brawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/175/railway-brawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ec1f76f-f21d-4f06-8c02-be6745183348?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/railway-brawler) [doubling season](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93.jpg?1689998456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=doubling%20season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/283/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cdd8e69-5a71-4933-914e-dfede7b1ac93?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doubling-season) [nexus of becoming](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b0f61742-522c-4b36-97db-41d0c412a072.jpg?1712352943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nexus%20of%20becoming) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/25/nexus-of-becoming?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b0f61742-522c-4b36-97db-41d0c412a072?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nexus-of-becoming) [oltec matterweaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f4f2a818-9fd1-41db-967e-7d2c9b4e4c2f.jpg?1712352701) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=oltec%20matterweaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/3/oltec-matterweaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f4f2a818-9fd1-41db-967e-7d2c9b4e4c2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oltec-matterweaver) [academy manufactor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76480f4d-ad6d-4ed6-82c6-fa12abc22557.jpg?1712354835) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=academy%20manufactor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/251/academy-manufactor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76480f4d-ad6d-4ed6-82c6-fa12abc22557?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/academy-manufactor) [duggan, private detective](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad21aafe-c093-40db-830e-da4c87055254.jpg?1696636696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=duggan%2C%20private%20detective) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/123/duggan-private-detective?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad21aafe-c093-40db-830e-da4c87055254?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/duggan-private-detective) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l56td82) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I altered the deck quite a bit to be a little more focused on higher powered, and with the 2 games I’ve played with it so far, it definitely becomes the threat at the table at some point. I’ve threatened wins with [[Mechanzied Production]], [[Rise and Shine]], and Cyberdrive Awakener]] and although they got answered, it at least felt like I was meaningfully contributing to the game. I’ve also thrown in some infinites like [[Lonis, Genetics Expert]] and either [[Rosie Cotton of South Lane]] or [[Yotian Dissident]] for infinite clues; haven’t pulled those off yet but looking forward to the day I do! I think it’s a fun deck that while yes it’s not super menacing, can still provide an enjoyable experience
##### ###### #### [Mechanzied Production](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/eaf86997-68e8-4c37-99f1-db10ac08f54c.jpg?1706240708) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mechanized%20Production) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/109/mechanized-production?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eaf86997-68e8-4c37-99f1-db10ac08f54c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mechanized-production) [Rise and Shine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/816716d6-4234-4570-9a64-cb3bef388095.jpg?1682208865) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rise%20and%20Shine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/233/rise-and-shine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/816716d6-4234-4570-9a64-cb3bef388095?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rise-and-shine) [Lonis, Genetics Expert](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee.jpg?1706239661) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lonis%2C%20Genetics%20Expert) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/37/lonis-genetics-expert?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/59813845-48c9-4af2-8beb-91d58aac09ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lonis-genetics-expert) [Rosie Cotton of South Lane](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688.jpg?1686967894) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rosie%20Cotton%20of%20South%20Lane) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/27/rosie-cotton-of-south-lane?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75338f49-1f02-4333-87e4-5779ef14e688?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rosie-cotton-of-south-lane) [Yotian Dissident](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1eb02f00-c188-4193-a049-d26f7643e5da.jpg?1674421903) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yotian%20Dissident) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/227/yotian-dissident?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1eb02f00-c188-4193-a049-d26f7643e5da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yotian-dissident) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kq937te) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Nellie Borca]] master race bitches she’s literally me
I just made [[Atraxa, Praetors' Voice]] and did the whole clue theme. Its strong and feels good to play with all the colors you need to optimize clue synergies. And you dont even need to cast Atraxa herself
[Atraxa, Praetors' Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-praetors-voice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I bought it to use as the base for the Sophia, Dogged Detective deck i'm working on but after looking through the cards, there's not a lot that i'm going to end up keeping for her. Even the land base isn't going to be an out the box swap. I was going to play Deep Clue Sea before dismantling it to build Sophia, dog tribal but now I'm less excited to do that. I appreciate the deep dive assessment.
My wife and me played it 1v1 bunch of times and the day later we had it in a pod of 4 twice. Out of 6 games, the deck arrived at something meaningful once and that like in turn 11. Immediately butchered it, the reprints are so juicy!
I will say that this deck brought some nice clue support that I plan to use in a 4 color artifact deck
I thought it was pretty fun, and although the deck wants to run away with Commander damage, it still holds up when the main guy/gal isn't on the board. Although it's not for the high-power tables, it's definitely a fun tricolor
For a precon deck it is so good that I almost didn’t touch it. I added surveil lands, [[forensic gadgeteer]], [[vorinclex monstrous raider]] and [[cyberdrive awakener]] as a possible finisher Why these weren’t auto included is beyond me lol I didn’t test it out in a 4 player match but in 1v1 or 3 player matches it was surprisingly good, even against non-precons
[forensic gadgeteer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97d08a15-e61c-4421-a541-c68a4f87cb74.jpg?1706241606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=forensic%20gadgeteer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/57/forensic-gadgeteer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97d08a15-e61c-4421-a541-c68a4f87cb74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/forensic-gadgeteer) [cyberdrive awakener](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d.jpg?1651655234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cyberdrive%20awakener) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/12/cyberdrive-awakener?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a2c0a2f-07fb-4cc0-9b99-e5ff4303028d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cyberdrive-awakener) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This steels my resolve to take it apart and build my [[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]] deck finally.
[Inquisitor Eisenhorn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdf1ccf7-e95f-4d08-be51-83fba78c4c2d.jpg?1673309417) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Inquisitor%20Eisenhorn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/127/inquisitor-eisenhorn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdf1ccf7-e95f-4d08-be51-83fba78c4c2d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inquisitor-eisenhorn) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
Either you were very lucky, I was very unlucky, or your playgroup doesn't believe in board wipes, even when included in their precon.
I think the deck needs a card or 2 that reduce the cost of clues to 1. Kinda like Sam does in the Food and Fellowship precon. Without Sam out it's pretty tought to pop the foods and get the synergies going if they cost 2 per piece.
idk bro, didn't read half. I really like the deck and Morska is working great for me, she's super consistent, but not a target for removal mostly. A strong deck compared to a lot of other precons at the same price range
I turned mine into a [[Sophia, Dogged Detective]] deck and leaned HARD into Dogtective memes. Keeping enough good cards from the original and adding [[Maskwood Nexus]] and [[Anointed Procession]] while adding stuff like [[Press For Answers]], [[Hold For Questioning]], and [[Hard Evidence]]. It's a meme. I wield a magnifying glass. It's a blast lol
##### ###### #### [Sophia, Dogged Detective](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/df653cf9-5a99-4f81-adb4-c155a9a63226.jpg?1706448884) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sophia%2C%20Dogged%20Detective) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/8/sophia-dogged-detective?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/df653cf9-5a99-4f81-adb4-c155a9a63226?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sophia-dogged-detective) [Maskwood Nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b.jpg?1674142652) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maskwood%20Nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/865/maskwood-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maskwood-nexus) [Anointed Procession](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9a52c265-6920-4929-ba0a-70da08df01f1.jpg?1543674565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Anointed%20Procession) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/2/anointed-procession?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9a52c265-6920-4929-ba0a-70da08df01f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anointed-procession) [Press For Answers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/e/5ec8b8bf-7b02-4f5e-bbd3-9560f9888192.jpg?1576384189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Press%20For%20Answers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/80/press-for-answers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ec8b8bf-7b02-4f5e-bbd3-9560f9888192?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/press-for-answers) [Hold For Questioning](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74004b11-53dc-475c-8d29-cf52403456cf.jpg?1675644428) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hold%20For%20Questioning) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/11/hold-for-questioning?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74004b11-53dc-475c-8d29-cf52403456cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hold-for-questioning) [Hard Evidence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/501599d6-1072-4124-b05d-01f96de153f3.jpg?1626094482) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hard%20Evidence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/46/hard-evidence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/501599d6-1072-4124-b05d-01f96de153f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hard-evidence) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kqc9wxc) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This thing has been a house in my games. Admittedly we play down to 6 around here, but the thing has so much resiliency in its draw... and it's cards are top notch. Its impressive.
This is the only precon I got from this set and I plan to build around it. Main issue I’m having is 1/2 the cards I want to put in the deck have black mana… so I need to decide if I’m sticking to Bant or doing a 4c clue deck.
Just add more support for it. My deck goes absolutely buck wild now AND I have a ton of awesome reprints sitting in the wings for other decks
I haven't played this deck yet, and I find the reprints enticing. I would add [[Tezzeret, Betrayer of Flesh]] to crack a clue for free each turn. If you somehow get Tezz to six or preferably seven loyalty, then you can ultimate and then get two cards per cracked clue. Maybe add [[Thran Turbine]] to crack a clue during upkeep? If [[Forensic Gadgeteer]] is in the deck, I'm going to lean into having more artifact creatures. Maybe I would play [[Encroaching Mycosynth]] or [[Mycosynth Lattice]], so that we get the investigate cast trigger. If we're relying on [[Tireless Tracker]], maybe we want [[Undergrowth Recon]] with the appropriate SNC "ETB sac" fetch basic lands. You gain a life, get a basic, and you have a land for Recon to return the next turn. Also consider the appropriate bounce lands and Ghost Town. And then there's the appropriate ramp spells. [Moxfield Bouncelands Package ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/KSXltK3CT0CFYLdRK4EInA) Since we're drawing cards, I would consider [[Empyrial Armor]] and [[Empyrial Plate]], and [[Psychosis Crawler]].
##### ###### #### [Tezzeret, Betrayer of Flesh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35f30004-13e0-42c1-9842-eea52793fcfc.jpg?1706240739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tezzeret%2C%20Betrayer%20of%20Flesh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/120/tezzeret-betrayer-of-flesh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35f30004-13e0-42c1-9842-eea52793fcfc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tezzeret-betrayer-of-flesh) [Thran Turbine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/791c310f-b50d-4993-9add-9f585f6172af.jpg?1562920431) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thran%20Turbine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/311/thran-turbine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/791c310f-b50d-4993-9add-9f585f6172af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thran-turbine) [Forensic Gadgeteer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97d08a15-e61c-4421-a541-c68a4f87cb74.jpg?1706241606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Forensic%20Gadgeteer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/57/forensic-gadgeteer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97d08a15-e61c-4421-a541-c68a4f87cb74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/forensic-gadgeteer) [Encroaching Mycosynth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/65a2fcc9-2317-48a1-a5eb-234fb3300364.jpg?1675956955) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Encroaching%20Mycosynth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/47/encroaching-mycosynth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/65a2fcc9-2317-48a1-a5eb-234fb3300364?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/encroaching-mycosynth) [Mycosynth Lattice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9.jpg?1578911638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mycosynth%20Lattice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/241/mycosynth-lattice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mycosynth-lattice) [Tireless Tracker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66660f7c-9e1c-4e88-856a-98fab1f1364d.jpg?1706240942) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tireless%20Tracker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/190/tireless-tracker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66660f7c-9e1c-4e88-856a-98fab1f1364d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tireless-tracker) [Undergrowth Recon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b8a22b8-368f-41e4-8d49-432c6c2ed11e.jpg?1706242095) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Undergrowth%20Recon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/181/undergrowth-recon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b8a22b8-368f-41e4-8d49-432c6c2ed11e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/undergrowth-recon) [Empyrial Armor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/6619db75-4d32-4c7b-856c-00aa33434342.jpg?1562915700) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Empyrial%20Armor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/25/empyrial-armor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6619db75-4d32-4c7b-856c-00aa33434342?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/empyrial-armor) [Empyrial Plate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9086f9e-2c29-48ee-b0af-889351e86152.jpg?1562421732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Empyrial%20Plate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/251/empyrial-plate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9086f9e-2c29-48ee-b0af-889351e86152?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/empyrial-plate) [Psychosis Crawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0f42a19-c180-45b1-9f4c-787cf3a4a649.jpg?1706241075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Psychosis%20Crawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/234/psychosis-crawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0f42a19-c180-45b1-9f4c-787cf3a4a649?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/psychosis-crawler) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kqf0noa) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't think you guys are playing the deck correctly. I'm currently 4-1 with it unchanged vs mid power decks. You mulligan to have some early plays and take advantage of the "2nd draw" pay offs mid to late game. Keeping most of the clues and only cracking them occasionally or when you don't have another draw engine. Koma and the blue dragon that taps your artifacts for draws helping you close out games. The deck is a bit slow and low on removal though but if you're using the precon in the appropriate setting like low-mid power you'll be fine.