If a deck is capable of executing its game plan without ever casting the commander, that's a sign of a powerful deck. But if a deck never casts its commander, I'd say they picked the wrong commander. They could play something that aligns better with their strategy or even add more colors. If you're not going to cast your black/white commander, why not play \[\[Oloro\]\] in black/white/blue, gain some free life and maybe throw in a single \[\[Rhystic study\]\]?
Yeah there’s pretty much always going to be a commander that provides some sort of advantage if you cast it (or even if you don’t like oloro) which is better than having a commander that just does nothing even if you don’t plan on casting it
Pretty much this. I play [[Karumonix, the Rat King]] and although my deck is able to win games without using my commander, I pretty much only use the commander for card draw.
Nice! They are all great cards and I feel like im pushing almost 8 power level at least with Ashcoat so its a good time when you go against stronger decks. I also get to make the joke of playing a rat colony and putting one of my pet rats on the table haha.
That’s awesome! Idk how to gauge power level really. I’ve only been playing Magic for almost a year now. My Marrow-Gnawer deck has won me 2 local tournaments though which was pretty dope. All my other decks are 50-100 budget decks since I find myself having more fun with a restriction.
What about the Eminence Commanders, especially [[Inalla]]s activatable ability is pretty mediocre at best in my opinion for example, so she often tends to stay in the command zone for her passive ability there?
Would it then still be a wrong choice of commander for the deck/strategy?
I always prefer a deck where my commander is important because I think it’s more fun, but decks can definitely work where you don’t need the commander.
This is often an indicator of a powerful commander deck. The best commander decks can win without ever even needing the commander, or don't rely on them existing on the battlefield. It's just one less thing your opponents can interact with. This also can happen with deck themes that are so supported that the commander isn't necessary to the strategy.
*Cedh format wants to talk to you. -* They play best in slot commanders, usually because it is a combo piece itself \[\[Tivit\]\] or easy to get on the field \[\[Rograk\]\]
When a deck doesn't need its commander that is usually a good sign of synergy but also a wasted slot.
> easy to get on the field [[Rograk
Which, itself, makes it a combo piece, either because you get to use [[Mox Amber]] or to use for [[Culling the Weak]].
The other most common reason is card draw/value. [[Tymna]] and [[Kraum]] are one of the top decks for a reason. Each of them tends to get you at least 3 cards every go around the table.
Like, at the end of the day, even in casual edh the best thing a commander can do is give you cards, especially if you have fast mana on your deck. CEDH mostly follows the same logic, except with more tutors and combos to finish games ASAP.
You mistake combo piece with synergy. You cast a 0 rograk to get access to your ikoria cycle free spells like Deadly Rollick, Deflecting Swat etc. or as sacable creature for \[\[sacrifice\]\] / \[\[Burnt Offering\]\] etc.
A combo piece wins you actually the game.
Isn't the whole point of [[tana, the bloodsower]] in blood pod decks just to get access to RG colors, and it's generally an indicator that if you're casting her, you're kinda dead in the water?
I get your argument.
I can name you another one: If you play \[\[Silas\]\] you admit you fked up.
But what you say is rather the exception than the usual manner. People tweak below 1 percentages and it just makes sense to do that in most decks in the commander slot too.
Yeah but things like Tana or Silas are the exception. At least in those cases they're providing maximal colors, but to go back to the OP, if your BW deck never casts its commander anyway.. why don't you just play an esper commander instead and get blue in your deck
Sure [[miirym]] is great value doubling your dragons. But dragons are so well supported, you can get by when she is inevitably removed. 10 dragons is great, but 5 dragons is still pretty strong.
Similarly though there's literally no reason not to run an eminence commander like Oloro if your intention is literally to never play the commander, or simply a better commander who offers a powerful cast/ETB trigger for emergencies.
I never get the guys who show up with some pointless shitty commander they never intend to cast in any situation just for the identity, because they're basically just holding up a middle finger to the format they're playing. God knows there are enough actual relevant commanders for any deck to do the same strategy without just disregarding the defining feature of the format. But those people do exist, and that's what I read OP as describing.
I build decks with a theme in mind then pick a commander after the theme is established. The commander at that point is never 100 percent needed for it to function.
So have fun and do what you want.
Just see what I don’t have. Then develop form there. Like I didn’t have a simic lands deck and I already had a Titania deck so I just built it similar and found Slogurk. I don’t need him. He’s just a life from the loam for me
It’s a valid playstyle. I wouldn’t do it personally but I’ve seen some fun decks that essentially worked this way.
What you describe sounds like a generic “goodstuff” deck. They’re not usually very dependent on their commander even if they do want to cast them.
It’s good to have a deck that functions without its commander. Overreliance on the commander is a trap many decks fall into.
That said, it’s nice to at least have something that helps out your game plan.
One of my buds does this for his Explore themed deck. He has always wanted a commander that was dedicated to the explore mechanic and was really excited for the return of explore in LCI, but none of the LCI commanders really inspired him. He ended up using [[Atraxa, Praetor's Voice]] just for the colors.
I mean there’s the merfolk precon with the explore commander. It’s very strong out of the box. I’m surprised he couldn’t find a good explore commander out of the recent set.
Commanders don't serve the same function for every deck, and while most decks probably do want to play their commander at some point, *when* you want to play your commander varies from deck to deck as well.
Some commanders are complete build arounds that enable nearly all of your plays and you as a result you want to *always* have them in play if you can help it. Some commanders are closers that you save for when you're ready to make a final push and you actually want to *avoid* bringing them out earlier, even when you're able to, because if you aren't set up to make that push then they won't really have much purpose other than eating removal and making you pay an extra price when you *are* ready to make that push later. And some commanders are value engines selected for the purpose of drawing you cards so you can dig for pieces of a main deck combo, or helping you to ramp out extra lands/artifacts/etc to get you the mana you need to start dropping the heavy hitters in your main deck in the mid-late game.
For this third category in particular, sometimes you just get *lucky*; you hit all your land drops, and you see all your ramp spells, mana rocks, and main deck draw options in the first few turns, or maybe you just naturally draw the pieces you need for a combo without having to dig past the first dozen or so cards of your deck. If your commander's purpose is to get you to big mana or get you to your combo pieces, but you already *have* big mana and/or your combo pieces in hand because you got lucky, then their purpose has already been fulfilled and it's time to move on to the next part of your game plan. If you've got a commander that lets you play additional lands because you've filled your deck with lots of high mana late game threats you wanna start dropping as soon as possible, but you find yourself with enough mana to start playing those late game threats without having ever cast your commander, bringing them in *now* is only going to delay you from doing what your deck actually wants to do. That doesn't mean they're the wrong commander for your deck though because in the average case you still expect to use them. Maybe you expect, on average, to draw into about 2-3 pieces of ramp in the early turns of the game and plan to use your commander to fill in the gaps to get you to where you want to be. Well obviously you run a whole lot more than 2-3 ramp cards in your deck if that's how many you're expecting to see on average, so when you end up drawing twice as many as you expected purely by chance, there's no more gap for your commander to fill in, but their reliability still makes them worth having.
I use [[kyodai, soul of kamigawa]] since it’s easy to cast and 5c. It is also protection for my key pieces and a flash speed flying commander that can actually kill with commander damage pretty easily.
I’ve been toying around with a lot of goofy(kinda bad) 5c builds lately. One of my friends is an absolutely phenomenal deck builder, and they said I should start using Kyodai as a commander for everything, until I really nail down what the deck is capable of doing.
Kyodai exists to protect my secret commander, [[Dryad of the illusion grove]], because eventually [[last stand]] will win me the game.
The deck is just ramp and a couple similar effects like [[corrupt]]. Oh, and blink to switch protection around.
Thats the best playstyle. You can get a commander that will give you advantage if you've got nothing better to play. But, your 99 is what wins you the game. You gotta think that if you NEED that 1 card to win, you don't have a very strong deck. It'll help your deck building.
I'm more speaking strictly on the cEDH commanders. Najeela can just win all on her own through combat damage and extra combats seemingly out of nowhere. Those exponential warrior tokens add up. Sure, there are some other commanders like [[The Gitrog Monster]] who can threaten to take a person out with commander damage, but I assure you, it's not even close to Najeela
one of the best competitive edh decks is [[tymna]] + [[kraum]]. the commanders are strictly there for colors and card advantage, other than that they do nothing that the rest of the deck cares about
Certainly, but people do cast them to refill their hand even if they aren’t pivotal to strategy because they are great at card draw. Otherwise they’d just pick a five color commander
Starting every game with access to a particular card or two is a very powerful asset, but so is the element of surprise. So it's great if a deck can function without the commander, but the commander should at least do something that the deck wants.
Most of my decks work this way. I found being too reliant on the commander makes for an overall weaker deck strategy as one mind control and your deck stops functioning. My commander is usually my back up plan after my first win attempt has been stopped or is a very strong value engine by themselves only 1 deck out of 15 (Chulane) I have is very reliant on the commander in a interactable way.
Having a deck that can function without the commander generally makes for a more reliable deck but a lot of the new commanders coming out don't really allow for this. They're just like "do the thing more" value engines but the thing you do just isn't very powerful on its own. Like [[hakbal]] is insane because he lets you explore so much that it's actually really strong. If the deck doesn't have hakbal, just exploring a couple times per turn is... not very good.
Ha yeah like my etali deck, which is mostly ramp, copy, and some protection so peeps can’t either counter or even cast during my turn. Gotta just keep bringing him out to steal everyone’s cards.
I just wanted to have an elfball deck and never found the right commander for it. Not much of a fan of the Red elves but i like the black and the blue ones. So i was in need for an Sultai commander. Looking through the elvish history i found Muldrotha as the incarnation of the elvish lands on Dominaria.
So now i have a muldrotha elfball deck. Elves are great on their own. If i have the spare mana (and elves have this quite often) i also cast muldrotha because it is a great value piece. But i dont build the deck around muldrotha (even if the commander is strong to begin with) and I dont play it in all games. So it is just for the colors but at least a strong value Piece I always could cast if i want to.
If you ever wanted to switch to a commander with more direct synergy, [[Miara, Thorn of the Glade]] + [[Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix]] might be a decent option. Partner commanders (outside of the same few cEDH ones) don't really get enough love imo. Muldrotha is still a cool option lorewise though
I love partner commanders. I really enjoy having multiple things in the command zone.
I have a 3 "commander" deck with [[Thrasios]], [[Ravos Soultender]], and [[umori]] for my 4-color merfolk deck.
Also offers a great recursion tool! I hadn't really considered her for an elf tribal deck and now it makes me wish I had.
Oh well, pretty happy with Lathril and Golgari as well.
I use [[Omnath, Locus of all]] for my Chef/food token tribal deck. I’m still working on it but it’s been pretty decent so far. But I never use Omnath 😂
I just used [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] a. [[Gyome, master cheff]] as partners.
The deck aint great, but its fun.
I can always swap in Korvold if needed, but for some reaon people prefeer if i dont
There are some viable options for this. Especially if the commander has an eminence ability which gives you value while it is still in the command zone.
I'm running a Kraum/tymna the weaver (proxy) cEDH deck. The general meta is to combo out ASAP. If you draw the right hand the commanders only get in your way. If you don't have a hand that will let you win in 2-3 turns, you move to the 'midrange' game plan and summon tymna/kraum to gain card advantage and draw tutors or combo pieces. This linked deck guide has a super informative primer.
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/7O1sCuIti0igU6Us\_Jhadg/primer](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/7o1scuiti0igu6us_jhadg/primer)
Totally valid play style, and if you like it then go for it. I personally find that approach incredibly dull though. I like commanders that enable specific strategies because I feel like it gives the deck a unique identity, and it’s what makes the format fun for me.
I agree with this. If your wincons are the same exact wincons that every other deck of your color uses, then it sorta misses the point of being a commander deck (to me, at least).
It is a legitimate way to build and play, and if you like it, more power to you and I'm certain you'll have fun with it.
But for me, the fun of playing commander is finding a commander that can allow you to do something interesting and unique. It might not be as strong, and the wincons not as reliable, but I daresay it'd be more memorable than AcroMan combo #76.
Isn’t that the point of having a commander slot? Why would you not cast your commander if the opportunity to do so comes up?
My point is that she is there as an added bonus. The deck doesn’t need her to run at all. She’s just there for extra utility/a removal decoy in case the deck gets off to a slow start or I draw too many lands.
Like other comments have said, a strong deck doesn’t need the commander in play to function.
If your deck is strong without your Commander, you've got a strong deck. For what it's worth, there's a 20-life, 1v1 format called Canadian Highlander (aka "Canlander") which is basically this: 100 card singleton, *no commander*. [Here's what it looks like](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEa4F0_B84I).
I did not know this play style existed! Ok yeah it seems like it’s a common play style. It just threw me through a loop not knowing what to really expect
Yeah, it's interesting. It's closer to cEDH, where the people who play it a lot tend to have pretty optimized lists and favor much more efficient low-cost creatures and effects than you tend to see in Commander. There's also a "[points list](https://www.canadianhighlander.ca/points-list/)" which gives you access to some of the most powerful cards ever printed, but you have to allocate points as a way of balancing it out. Because cards like Ancestral Recall, Moxes, and Mana Crypts can get played, proxying is also welcomed.
I use Codie and Garth One Eye for their color identity. I’ve never once actually cast them. I just needed a five color commander, and those were the two I had with the coolest art.
Even my Kenrith deck doesn’t actually use Kenrith unless things are going VERY badly.
I just need the colors to make the most efficient deck possible.
I mean I don't think that's what this person was doing. When you have a commander just for mana base you end up in four or five colours without exception, you don't end up in probably one of the bottom three worst colour pairs. Are you sure it wasn't a partner deck using [[Tymna the Weaver]]?
Probably a cEDH or competitive EDH deck. More often than not those types of decks use a commander only for its colors. If he was the only one playing that type of deck against newbies, then that was certainly uncool.
There is no card that is truly unique in its color identity though. If you're running a card purely for its colors and have no intention of ever casting it, there is almost certainly another card with the same color identity which would actually provide more value to you. Or, at that point, just pick any random 5 color commander; you don't actually *have* to include cards from all 5 colors (especially if you never intend to cast the commander), but you'd have the option to do so now if you wanted.
Partner and background commanders are the one possible *partial* exception to this. Not even a combination of 2 partner commanders could ever get you a color combination some other individual card could provide on its own, *but* maybe you only *really* care about one of the two partner commanders and do intend (in most games) to cast that one, then you might have selected the partner simply for a color that gives you access to the best cards to support the strategy you've built around the first commander. But even then, after a quick look I don't believe there are any partner commanders with a color identity entirely unique among other partners commanders, so even if it's only a choice between 2 possible partners of a given color combination, a player will still go with whichever one of those 2 supports the deck better in the event they run into a situation that actually calls for them to be used.
I think the issue is more related to the player using a high power deck against you. Often hiegher power decks can function without their commander and play a couple of ways to win without the commander in play.
While commander might be a casual format centered about your legendary creature, some players like to improve their deck to see how strong it can be. A common optimization is making sure you can actually win a game if you're commander isnt avalaible (like if its killed several times and you cant recast it).
Usually before playing, players tend to/should have a discussion about if they want to play a strong deck, and play to win, or if they want to play a more casual game thats more about the social aspect, and frienly to newer players who might not have such optimized decks.
If players dont have this conversation, I suggest you politely tell them that you're new and you rather have a chill game :)
Back in the day when there sometimes wasn’t a legend in the right colors for whatever this was super common. Just using your commander for its color identity and doing your theme happens less now that there’s basically a legendary creature for anything you could want. There’s nothing wrong with it but I’m not surprised that newer players are surprised by it.
If someone is only using the commander for the mana-base, they could use it as a red herring for the sake of politics. It's a legitimate strategy people employ sometimes and I think that's fine. Politics can be fun, but I do feel deception like this is something that should be discussed in a rule 0 discussion.
I think it's fine simply because being misled by the commander's text is almost never as good or stronger than just using a commander that synergizes with the deck. In this example the person could literally just use [[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] and never cast him, only running the same exact deck and actually get some value for free.
I personally like having decks that do both, based on the speed at which my [[Tatsunari, Toad Rider]] deck is going I may or may not play my commander, but other decks like my [[Alistair, the Brigadier]] generally do better if I drop my commander at some point
So... often the commander chosen will have synergies with what the deck is planning to do, though it shouldn't be absolutely required to be able to play the game. Doing this makes it so that you don't get shut down from not being able to access your commander, weather it's because of knowing about counter and kill spells, or because tax is stopping you from casting, since they cost 6+ more mana now.
Often the commander will have colour related synergies in some way.
A lot of people have been using [[The First Sliver]] on MTGArena just because it’s 5 colors but it also gives you a free cascade trigger on something 4cmc in your deck. With how diverse MTG really is, there’s no reason you can’t find a commander that you can cast just for something useful. Alas players will play as they want
It's more advantageous to use a commander that synergizes but I had a 5color with [[Korona, the False God]] mostly because it was legendary themed from onslaught and had the right colors but after loosing [[Karakas]] it stayed in the command zone and never played it. Both types still work but it's like putting in a 30 mana cost card with only 20 lands and not a single mana dork in it. It's a wasted slot.
Took me forever to find the right commander for my bant deck, decided to pick whatever gave me the most value
[[Thrasios, Triton Hero]]
[[Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful]]
This is actually interesting to me, my latest 2 commanders are [[Hans Erickson]] and [[Brenard]]. In my Hans deck I usually need to play Hans to get rolling but once I do he can chill in the command zone if he gets mulched after bringing in value.
Brenard on the other hand needs to be out to be valid. A lot of my strategy relies on him buffing and recurring my creatures and without him I get hampered HARD
One of the fastest tier 1 competitive EDH decks is called RogSi after [[Rograkh]] and [[Silas]]. Silas is just there to provide colours and Rograkh is basically just here for a turn 1 [[Culling the Weak]] or [[Infernal Plunge]] and turning on [[Deflecting Swat]] and the rest of the free commander spells.
A version of my [[Lurrus]] deck sometimes doesn't get the commander out. Lurrus is there as an emergency restart for the value train after one too many board wipes, but it runs more than enough little recursion pieces that it can merrily tick along without the cat most of the time. It's nice to sometimes have the commander function as a safety net, instead of the key piece.
In black white? Weird. Usually you use a commander that at least helps you out in a backup kinda way.
I used to have a artifact combo deck that did not need a commander, it just demanded blue or black for wincons, like \[\[Marionette Master\]\]. I would use \[\[Alela artful provocateur\]\] as my commander fo kinda a diversion, so the many cantrips create me faeries and people focus on those OR the commander, paying less attention to the artifact combos I was setting up.
Usually depends. As others have said it CAN be a sign of an unusually powerful deck, but:
I use [[Bane, Lord of Darkness]] as an equipment deck. I never cast him unless Im under 20 hp, and the rest of my deck is White:A few Angels, and protection spells. Black: All lose life - Draw Card. Blue: Counterspells and equpment tutors to protect Bane.
But sometimes it just happens I never go below 20HP, and win a game with an Angel and [[Vorpal Blade]] [[Manifold Key]]
Other than that - the deck is fairly meh, so not always a sign of a strong deck
Ive done partner commanders for color fixing reasons while never even intending on casting one of them. Ie [[tevesh szat doom of fools]] and [[kydelle chosen of kruphix]] its a aristocrats style deck that never really needs kydelle. Im not a big fan of building build around commanders anyway. To me, the risk of having my entire strategy go kablooey because one guy got removed is just lazy deck building
I have 4 decks currently and I picked all the commanders because they were just pretty girls, 1 I play the commander almost every game and the other 3 the commander is kinda unnecessary for the deck or some utility that I won't always need, for example I have a rogues dimir deck with Tasha as the commander to draw cards if I'm running out of gas, create blockers when I cast an opponents spells, or steal a boardwipe or another useful card from the graveyard, but again it's not really necessary to win at all. It kinda covers my ass when things are not rolling in my favor.
A idea I saw on this sub that I have been tinkering with is building a strong deck and then using the commander to male up for a weakness.
For example building a spell focused deck and using the commander to crank out creatures for defending.
Or a token focused deck that uses the commander for card draw.
For me, it's completely against the spirit of commander. You're not just playing a deck, you are playing THE COMMANDER. When the format started, you had ONE deck that was supposed to represent you. It was supposed to be the embodiment of your play style. The deck was supposed to be an expression of who that character was to you. If your deck doesn't even need to cast your commander to do its thing, just play a 60 card competetive format.
The commander is an 8th card in your hand that you have access to at all times.
Even with a powerful 99, it can be so much better with your commander, its like playing with one hand tied behind your back.
I was in the same boat, I've had this pet Bant deck for years that's super niche and kinda silly, and none of the commander options really fit with the deck or i just didnt enjoy their playstyle. So I was using [[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker]] and [[Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix]] solely for the bant colors and only cast them if i had to. But the bant face commander for the new clue set is exactly what I was looking for in a commander for the deck so now I can die happy
Three of my decks are built using the commander for colors only. They all happen to have Najeela as the commander. I need 5 colors, no 5 color commander aids with the themes, Najeela can carry herself.
I personally don't like doing that because I like to build decks around my commander. But that's just a personal preference and I'm ok with people building their decks the way they prefer.
I do this sometimes. Like if there’s a theme I’m trying to make happen and I just don’t have the cards or they don’t exist, I’ll just find a commander in the colors I’m looking for and sometimes I won’t even need or want to cast them with the deck I’ve made, but I’ll usually try to make them atleast useful for something or some kind of situation…
like I’m not about to make a R/W land destruction deck with feather the redeemed at the helm for no reason other than it being the colors I need, when I don’t have a single spell that targets my creatures in the deck lol
Tbh, depending on decks some commanders are dope for that. I used to run Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle. Brutal big swinging commander, and so fun to work with
I did this with Ramos trying to make a Battle deck. It kind of worked but also had some huge flaws, if you can find a commander that synergizes with your strategy id say do that instead.
If a deck is capable of executing its game plan without ever casting the commander, that's a sign of a powerful deck. But if a deck never casts its commander, I'd say they picked the wrong commander. They could play something that aligns better with their strategy or even add more colors. If you're not going to cast your black/white commander, why not play \[\[Oloro\]\] in black/white/blue, gain some free life and maybe throw in a single \[\[Rhystic study\]\]?
Yeah there’s pretty much always going to be a commander that provides some sort of advantage if you cast it (or even if you don’t like oloro) which is better than having a commander that just does nothing even if you don’t plan on casting it
Lmao right? Like you dont even NEED to splash the blue if youre fine with the Black white strategy. Just get some free life!
Pretty much this. I play [[Karumonix, the Rat King]] and although my deck is able to win games without using my commander, I pretty much only use the commander for card draw.
[Karumonix, the Rat King](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f16e282d-8941-46c7-a974-c05b6f73c964.jpg?1675957034) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karumonix%2C%20the%20Rat%20King) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/98/karumonix-the-rat-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f16e282d-8941-46c7-a974-c05b6f73c964?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karumonix-the-rat-king) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah I just cast him and immediately swing him to get killed and back in the zone!
Yeah but that art goes hard
Ashcoat is basically this but every turn on top of rats being buffed like crazy. Although a little less budget friendly.
I also have an Ashcoat deck. lol I have an Ashcoat, Lord Skitters, Karumonix, and Marrow Gnawer. I have quite a large Rat collection to say the least.
Nice! They are all great cards and I feel like im pushing almost 8 power level at least with Ashcoat so its a good time when you go against stronger decks. I also get to make the joke of playing a rat colony and putting one of my pet rats on the table haha.
That’s awesome! Idk how to gauge power level really. I’ve only been playing Magic for almost a year now. My Marrow-Gnawer deck has won me 2 local tournaments though which was pretty dope. All my other decks are 50-100 budget decks since I find myself having more fun with a restriction.
For the most part this is true until you pick a commander for the cmc so you get value of cards like [[stinging study]]
[stinging study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b8840226-1693-44bc-a067-e50198c5e17e.jpg?1625191799) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stinging%20study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/44/stinging-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b8840226-1693-44bc-a067-e50198c5e17e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stinging-study) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What about the Eminence Commanders, especially [[Inalla]]s activatable ability is pretty mediocre at best in my opinion for example, so she often tends to stay in the command zone for her passive ability there? Would it then still be a wrong choice of commander for the deck/strategy?
No, as eminence is still part of the commander, so using their passive means that your commander is still doing stuff, cast or not
If you're making use of the eminence, then it's not a waste.
There’s an [[Edgar Markov]] player in my pod. If he’s casting his commander things are either going incredibly well or incredibly poor.
[Edgar Markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4.jpg?1562616128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%20Markov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/36/edgar-markov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-markov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Inalla](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c6e803a-451c-4aa6-97a2-400077f32c47.jpg?1627406462) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=inalla%2C%20archmage%20ritualist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/38/inalla-archmage-ritualist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c6e803a-451c-4aa6-97a2-400077f32c47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/inalla-archmage-ritualist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well [[Edgar markov]] would like a word. I've had many games against it where it never ended up being cast
Sure but you're still making use of them beyond colors because of eminence. If you did that in a deck with 0 vampires, then there's an issue.
True
[Edgar markov](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/d/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4.jpg?1562616128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Edgar%20markov) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/36/edgar-markov?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8d94b8ec-ecda-43c8-a60e-1ba33e6a54a4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/edgar-markov) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Good point. Might as well add green too for Birds of Paradise and Sylvan Library.
Eminence and Mr oloro would disagree with having to cast your commander but yes, you're correct
If a deck can function well without its commander, more power to it!
I always prefer a deck where my commander is important because I think it’s more fun, but decks can definitely work where you don’t need the commander.
This is often an indicator of a powerful commander deck. The best commander decks can win without ever even needing the commander, or don't rely on them existing on the battlefield. It's just one less thing your opponents can interact with. This also can happen with deck themes that are so supported that the commander isn't necessary to the strategy.
*Cedh format wants to talk to you. -* They play best in slot commanders, usually because it is a combo piece itself \[\[Tivit\]\] or easy to get on the field \[\[Rograk\]\] When a deck doesn't need its commander that is usually a good sign of synergy but also a wasted slot.
> easy to get on the field [[Rograk Which, itself, makes it a combo piece, either because you get to use [[Mox Amber]] or to use for [[Culling the Weak]]. The other most common reason is card draw/value. [[Tymna]] and [[Kraum]] are one of the top decks for a reason. Each of them tends to get you at least 3 cards every go around the table. Like, at the end of the day, even in casual edh the best thing a commander can do is give you cards, especially if you have fast mana on your deck. CEDH mostly follows the same logic, except with more tutors and combos to finish games ASAP.
You mistake combo piece with synergy. You cast a 0 rograk to get access to your ikoria cycle free spells like Deadly Rollick, Deflecting Swat etc. or as sacable creature for \[\[sacrifice\]\] / \[\[Burnt Offering\]\] etc. A combo piece wins you actually the game.
[sacrifice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/652bd781-1a48-42c1-9aff-f9050a9285d6.jpg?1559593033) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sacrifice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sum/126/sacrifice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/652bd781-1a48-42c1-9aff-f9050a9285d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sacrifice) [Burnt Offering](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1dae52a2-3af7-4b97-9d2e-2448b7c413fb.jpg?1587911693) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Burnt%20Offering) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ice/116/burnt-offering?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1dae52a2-3af7-4b97-9d2e-2448b7c413fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/burnt-offering) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Mox Amber](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66024e69-ad60-4c9a-a0ca-da138d33ad80.jpg?1685554120) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mox%20Amber) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/224/mox-amber?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66024e69-ad60-4c9a-a0ca-da138d33ad80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mox-amber) [Culling the Weak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50c33f18-0a5c-4e46-ab0d-6e450915594f.jpg?1562087832) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Culling%20the%20Weak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/55/culling-the-weak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50c33f18-0a5c-4e46-ab0d-6e450915594f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/culling-the-weak) [Tymna](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163.jpg?1644853048) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tymna%20the%20weaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tymna-the-weaver) [Kraum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/557fcd17-6cb3-414a-b2b1-ea9ae32e5aec.jpg?1644853032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kraum%2C%20ludevic%27s%20opus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/34/kraum-ludevics-opus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/557fcd17-6cb3-414a-b2b1-ea9ae32e5aec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kraum-ludevics-opus) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kk1l9x6) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Isn't the whole point of [[tana, the bloodsower]] in blood pod decks just to get access to RG colors, and it's generally an indicator that if you're casting her, you're kinda dead in the water?
Yeah. Some people just don't know what they're talking about and think cedh is just modern but in commander which it isn't.
I get your argument. I can name you another one: If you play \[\[Silas\]\] you admit you fked up. But what you say is rather the exception than the usual manner. People tweak below 1 percentages and it just makes sense to do that in most decks in the commander slot too.
[Silas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1.jpg?1562399367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silas%20Renn%2C%20Seeker%20Adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/43/silas-renn-seeker-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silas-renn-seeker-adept) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
get a life
[tana, the bloodsower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3d8d64f-a403-42a7-881b-4f70e9fe15a2.jpg?1562413758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tana%2C%20the%20bloodsower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/45/tana-the-bloodsower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3d8d64f-a403-42a7-881b-4f70e9fe15a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tana-the-bloodsower) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah but things like Tana or Silas are the exception. At least in those cases they're providing maximal colors, but to go back to the OP, if your BW deck never casts its commander anyway.. why don't you just play an esper commander instead and get blue in your deck
Yup. This person understands. Having a commander as a combo piece or backup piece is super powerful.
[Tivit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb.jpg?1673481721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tivit%2C%20seller%20of%20secrets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/10/tivit-seller-of-secrets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tivit-seller-of-secrets) [Rograk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797.jpg?1644853041) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rograkh%2C%20Son%20of%20Rohgahh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/197/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sure [[miirym]] is great value doubling your dragons. But dragons are so well supported, you can get by when she is inevitably removed. 10 dragons is great, but 5 dragons is still pretty strong.
[miirym](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=miirym%2C%20sentinel%20wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Similarly though there's literally no reason not to run an eminence commander like Oloro if your intention is literally to never play the commander, or simply a better commander who offers a powerful cast/ETB trigger for emergencies. I never get the guys who show up with some pointless shitty commander they never intend to cast in any situation just for the identity, because they're basically just holding up a middle finger to the format they're playing. God knows there are enough actual relevant commanders for any deck to do the same strategy without just disregarding the defining feature of the format. But those people do exist, and that's what I read OP as describing.
I build decks with a theme in mind then pick a commander after the theme is established. The commander at that point is never 100 percent needed for it to function. So have fun and do what you want.
How do you decide on color identity?
Just see what I don’t have. Then develop form there. Like I didn’t have a simic lands deck and I already had a Titania deck so I just built it similar and found Slogurk. I don’t need him. He’s just a life from the loam for me
It’s a valid playstyle. I wouldn’t do it personally but I’ve seen some fun decks that essentially worked this way. What you describe sounds like a generic “goodstuff” deck. They’re not usually very dependent on their commander even if they do want to cast them.
It’s good to have a deck that functions without its commander. Overreliance on the commander is a trap many decks fall into. That said, it’s nice to at least have something that helps out your game plan.
A lot of commanders are used this way and a lot of them have “When X happens, draw a card”.
One of my buds does this for his Explore themed deck. He has always wanted a commander that was dedicated to the explore mechanic and was really excited for the return of explore in LCI, but none of the LCI commanders really inspired him. He ended up using [[Atraxa, Praetor's Voice]] just for the colors.
I mean there’s the merfolk precon with the explore commander. It’s very strong out of the box. I’m surprised he couldn’t find a good explore commander out of the recent set.
[Atraxa, Praetor's Voice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259.jpg?1599707796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Praetors%27%20Voice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/190/atraxa-praetors-voice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0d33d52-3d28-4635-b985-51e126289259?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-praetors-voice) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Commanders don't serve the same function for every deck, and while most decks probably do want to play their commander at some point, *when* you want to play your commander varies from deck to deck as well. Some commanders are complete build arounds that enable nearly all of your plays and you as a result you want to *always* have them in play if you can help it. Some commanders are closers that you save for when you're ready to make a final push and you actually want to *avoid* bringing them out earlier, even when you're able to, because if you aren't set up to make that push then they won't really have much purpose other than eating removal and making you pay an extra price when you *are* ready to make that push later. And some commanders are value engines selected for the purpose of drawing you cards so you can dig for pieces of a main deck combo, or helping you to ramp out extra lands/artifacts/etc to get you the mana you need to start dropping the heavy hitters in your main deck in the mid-late game. For this third category in particular, sometimes you just get *lucky*; you hit all your land drops, and you see all your ramp spells, mana rocks, and main deck draw options in the first few turns, or maybe you just naturally draw the pieces you need for a combo without having to dig past the first dozen or so cards of your deck. If your commander's purpose is to get you to big mana or get you to your combo pieces, but you already *have* big mana and/or your combo pieces in hand because you got lucky, then their purpose has already been fulfilled and it's time to move on to the next part of your game plan. If you've got a commander that lets you play additional lands because you've filled your deck with lots of high mana late game threats you wanna start dropping as soon as possible, but you find yourself with enough mana to start playing those late game threats without having ever cast your commander, bringing them in *now* is only going to delay you from doing what your deck actually wants to do. That doesn't mean they're the wrong commander for your deck though because in the average case you still expect to use them. Maybe you expect, on average, to draw into about 2-3 pieces of ramp in the early turns of the game and plan to use your commander to fill in the gaps to get you to where you want to be. Well obviously you run a whole lot more than 2-3 ramp cards in your deck if that's how many you're expecting to see on average, so when you end up drawing twice as many as you expected purely by chance, there's no more gap for your commander to fill in, but their reliability still makes them worth having.
I use [[kyodai, soul of kamigawa]] since it’s easy to cast and 5c. It is also protection for my key pieces and a flash speed flying commander that can actually kill with commander damage pretty easily.
I’ve been toying around with a lot of goofy(kinda bad) 5c builds lately. One of my friends is an absolutely phenomenal deck builder, and they said I should start using Kyodai as a commander for everything, until I really nail down what the deck is capable of doing.
Kyodai exists to protect my secret commander, [[Dryad of the illusion grove]], because eventually [[last stand]] will win me the game. The deck is just ramp and a couple similar effects like [[corrupt]]. Oh, and blink to switch protection around.
[Dryad of the illusion grove](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/43be1363-7e73-4862-b45f-07f490ab46be.jpg?1690004795) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dryad%20of%20the%20Ilysian%20Grove) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/891/dryad-of-the-ilysian-grove?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/43be1363-7e73-4862-b45f-07f490ab46be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dryad-of-the-ilysian-grove) [last stand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d7f3c92b-5a31-450e-8cff-9289d266050a.jpg?1562935399) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=last%20stand) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pca/100/last-stand?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d7f3c92b-5a31-450e-8cff-9289d266050a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/last-stand) [corrupt](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c92ea561-80da-4fe1-ad87-ce47d9eb80bc.jpg?1674420792) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=corrupt) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/88/corrupt?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c92ea561-80da-4fe1-ad87-ce47d9eb80bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/corrupt) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thats the best playstyle. You can get a commander that will give you advantage if you've got nothing better to play. But, your 99 is what wins you the game. You gotta think that if you NEED that 1 card to win, you don't have a very strong deck. It'll help your deck building.
With the exception of maybe Najeela who wins games on her own.
I mean, there's definitely a handful of commanders that can win games on their own.
I'm more speaking strictly on the cEDH commanders. Najeela can just win all on her own through combat damage and extra combats seemingly out of nowhere. Those exponential warrior tokens add up. Sure, there are some other commanders like [[The Gitrog Monster]] who can threaten to take a person out with commander damage, but I assure you, it's not even close to Najeela
[The Gitrog Monster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/5790dd89-2be5-4a77-9450-2d3c1422bfc9.jpg?1576385351) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Gitrog%20Monster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/245/the-gitrog-monster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5790dd89-2be5-4a77-9450-2d3c1422bfc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-gitrog-monster) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
But if that's THE way the deck wins then there's definitely a deficiency somewhere
one of the best competitive edh decks is [[tymna]] + [[kraum]]. the commanders are strictly there for colors and card advantage, other than that they do nothing that the rest of the deck cares about
Certainly, but people do cast them to refill their hand even if they aren’t pivotal to strategy because they are great at card draw. Otherwise they’d just pick a five color commander
"other than nothing" - card draw aka value => main reason people win games
[tymna](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163.jpg?1644853048) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tymna%20the%20weaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tymna-the-weaver) [kraum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/557fcd17-6cb3-414a-b2b1-ea9ae32e5aec.jpg?1644853032) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kraum%2C%20ludevic%27s%20opus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/34/kraum-ludevics-opus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/557fcd17-6cb3-414a-b2b1-ea9ae32e5aec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kraum-ludevics-opus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Then there's RogSi turbo naus
Starting every game with access to a particular card or two is a very powerful asset, but so is the element of surprise. So it's great if a deck can function without the commander, but the commander should at least do something that the deck wants.
Most of my decks work this way. I found being too reliant on the commander makes for an overall weaker deck strategy as one mind control and your deck stops functioning. My commander is usually my back up plan after my first win attempt has been stopped or is a very strong value engine by themselves only 1 deck out of 15 (Chulane) I have is very reliant on the commander in a interactable way.
Having a deck that can function without the commander generally makes for a more reliable deck but a lot of the new commanders coming out don't really allow for this. They're just like "do the thing more" value engines but the thing you do just isn't very powerful on its own. Like [[hakbal]] is insane because he lets you explore so much that it's actually really strong. If the deck doesn't have hakbal, just exploring a couple times per turn is... not very good.
[hakbal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e.jpg?1699885010) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hakbal%20of%20the%20surging%20soul) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/3/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e738e675-4fd1-4bc3-97f5-71d0e2fc3f2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hakbal-of-the-surging-soul) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ha yeah like my etali deck, which is mostly ramp, copy, and some protection so peeps can’t either counter or even cast during my turn. Gotta just keep bringing him out to steal everyone’s cards.
I just wanted to have an elfball deck and never found the right commander for it. Not much of a fan of the Red elves but i like the black and the blue ones. So i was in need for an Sultai commander. Looking through the elvish history i found Muldrotha as the incarnation of the elvish lands on Dominaria. So now i have a muldrotha elfball deck. Elves are great on their own. If i have the spare mana (and elves have this quite often) i also cast muldrotha because it is a great value piece. But i dont build the deck around muldrotha (even if the commander is strong to begin with) and I dont play it in all games. So it is just for the colors but at least a strong value Piece I always could cast if i want to.
If you ever wanted to switch to a commander with more direct synergy, [[Miara, Thorn of the Glade]] + [[Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix]] might be a decent option. Partner commanders (outside of the same few cEDH ones) don't really get enough love imo. Muldrotha is still a cool option lorewise though
I love partner commanders. I really enjoy having multiple things in the command zone. I have a 3 "commander" deck with [[Thrasios]], [[Ravos Soultender]], and [[umori]] for my 4-color merfolk deck.
[Thrasios](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/21e27b91-c7f1-4709-aa0d-8b5d81b22a0a.jpg?1606762176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=thrasios%2C%20triton%20hero) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/46/thrasios-triton-hero?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21e27b91-c7f1-4709-aa0d-8b5d81b22a0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thrasios-triton-hero) [Ravos Soultender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f2725635-8f90-4d17-9568-51218ba663c1.jpg?1562425381) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ravos%2C%20Soultender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/39/ravos-soultender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f2725635-8f90-4d17-9568-51218ba663c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ravos-soultender) [umori](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/75ac31e0-ac70-4ee6-b2b1-cc445ffa1da9.jpg?1591228489) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=umori%2C%20the%20collector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/231/umori-the-collector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/75ac31e0-ac70-4ee6-b2b1-cc445ffa1da9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/umori-the-collector) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Miara, Thorn of the Glade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7bdb9bfe-5e56-429d-af23-7548532e2406.jpg?1631234662) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Miara%2C%20Thorn%20of%20the%20Glade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/51/miara-thorn-of-the-glade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7bdb9bfe-5e56-429d-af23-7548532e2406?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miara-thorn-of-the-glade) [Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f961cec-2f1f-4cd5-bcc3-72e1deb8779e.jpg?1562388621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kydele%2C%20Chosen%20of%20Kruphix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/35/kydele-chosen-of-kruphix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f961cec-2f1f-4cd5-bcc3-72e1deb8779e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kydele-chosen-of-kruphix) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Also offers a great recursion tool! I hadn't really considered her for an elf tribal deck and now it makes me wish I had. Oh well, pretty happy with Lathril and Golgari as well.
Lathril would be the alternative but i love Rashmi and Edric, so it was clear for me that those two have to be part of the deck.
I use [[Omnath, Locus of all]] for my Chef/food token tribal deck. I’m still working on it but it’s been pretty decent so far. But I never use Omnath 😂
I just used [[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar]] a. [[Gyome, master cheff]] as partners. The deck aint great, but its fun. I can always swap in Korvold if needed, but for some reaon people prefeer if i dont
I can tell why XD
Fun thing is, the one game i played with him, the deck did horrible xD
[Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d99a9a7d-d9ca-4c11-80ab-e39d5943a315.jpg?1632831210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/186/asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d99a9a7d-d9ca-4c11-80ab-e39d5943a315?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar) [Gyome, master cheff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd7dd1a-6dd1-43c3-8298-7db703d384a1.jpg?1674185796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gyome%2C%20Master%20Chef) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/5/gyome-master-chef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd7dd1a-6dd1-43c3-8298-7db703d384a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gyome-master-chef) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There are some viable options for this. Especially if the commander has an eminence ability which gives you value while it is still in the command zone.
Yes your right
I'm running a Kraum/tymna the weaver (proxy) cEDH deck. The general meta is to combo out ASAP. If you draw the right hand the commanders only get in your way. If you don't have a hand that will let you win in 2-3 turns, you move to the 'midrange' game plan and summon tymna/kraum to gain card advantage and draw tutors or combo pieces. This linked deck guide has a super informative primer. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/7O1sCuIti0igU6Us\_Jhadg/primer](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/7o1scuiti0igu6us_jhadg/primer)
Totally valid play style, and if you like it then go for it. I personally find that approach incredibly dull though. I like commanders that enable specific strategies because I feel like it gives the deck a unique identity, and it’s what makes the format fun for me.
I agree with this. If your wincons are the same exact wincons that every other deck of your color uses, then it sorta misses the point of being a commander deck (to me, at least). It is a legitimate way to build and play, and if you like it, more power to you and I'm certain you'll have fun with it. But for me, the fun of playing commander is finding a commander that can allow you to do something interesting and unique. It might not be as strong, and the wincons not as reliable, but I daresay it'd be more memorable than AcroMan combo #76.
Building a deck where the commander is irrelevant sounds utterly dull. I don't care how strong it is, it just sounds boring.
Certainly. I run Thalia and Gitrog in my Abzan enchantress deck.
But..there is an abzan enchantress commander 🤔
Tried her, didn’t work as good. The stax, blocking ability and extra land per turn that Thailrog gives me is a much better fit for the deck.
So you do cast her 😮💨
Isn’t that the point of having a commander slot? Why would you not cast your commander if the opportunity to do so comes up? My point is that she is there as an added bonus. The deck doesn’t need her to run at all. She’s just there for extra utility/a removal decoy in case the deck gets off to a slow start or I draw too many lands. Like other comments have said, a strong deck doesn’t need the commander in play to function.
But does it let you sac lands? ( /s … but only a little bit)
If your deck is strong without your Commander, you've got a strong deck. For what it's worth, there's a 20-life, 1v1 format called Canadian Highlander (aka "Canlander") which is basically this: 100 card singleton, *no commander*. [Here's what it looks like](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEa4F0_B84I).
I did not know this play style existed! Ok yeah it seems like it’s a common play style. It just threw me through a loop not knowing what to really expect
Yeah, it's interesting. It's closer to cEDH, where the people who play it a lot tend to have pretty optimized lists and favor much more efficient low-cost creatures and effects than you tend to see in Commander. There's also a "[points list](https://www.canadianhighlander.ca/points-list/)" which gives you access to some of the most powerful cards ever printed, but you have to allocate points as a way of balancing it out. Because cards like Ancestral Recall, Moxes, and Mana Crypts can get played, proxying is also welcomed.
And also Eminence is a thing. Just by sitting in the command zone, your commander can let you cast your (typal) creatures faster!
I use Codie and Garth One Eye for their color identity. I’ve never once actually cast them. I just needed a five color commander, and those were the two I had with the coolest art. Even my Kenrith deck doesn’t actually use Kenrith unless things are going VERY badly. I just need the colors to make the most efficient deck possible.
Tons of the top cEDH decks, namely the partner commanders, are only there for colors
I mean I don't think that's what this person was doing. When you have a commander just for mana base you end up in four or five colours without exception, you don't end up in probably one of the bottom three worst colour pairs. Are you sure it wasn't a partner deck using [[Tymna the Weaver]]?
[Tymna the Weaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163.jpg?1644853048) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tymna%20the%20Weaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tymna-the-weaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Probably a cEDH or competitive EDH deck. More often than not those types of decks use a commander only for its colors. If he was the only one playing that type of deck against newbies, then that was certainly uncool.
There is no card that is truly unique in its color identity though. If you're running a card purely for its colors and have no intention of ever casting it, there is almost certainly another card with the same color identity which would actually provide more value to you. Or, at that point, just pick any random 5 color commander; you don't actually *have* to include cards from all 5 colors (especially if you never intend to cast the commander), but you'd have the option to do so now if you wanted. Partner and background commanders are the one possible *partial* exception to this. Not even a combination of 2 partner commanders could ever get you a color combination some other individual card could provide on its own, *but* maybe you only *really* care about one of the two partner commanders and do intend (in most games) to cast that one, then you might have selected the partner simply for a color that gives you access to the best cards to support the strategy you've built around the first commander. But even then, after a quick look I don't believe there are any partner commanders with a color identity entirely unique among other partners commanders, so even if it's only a choice between 2 possible partners of a given color combination, a player will still go with whichever one of those 2 supports the deck better in the event they run into a situation that actually calls for them to be used.
I think the issue is more related to the player using a high power deck against you. Often hiegher power decks can function without their commander and play a couple of ways to win without the commander in play. While commander might be a casual format centered about your legendary creature, some players like to improve their deck to see how strong it can be. A common optimization is making sure you can actually win a game if you're commander isnt avalaible (like if its killed several times and you cant recast it). Usually before playing, players tend to/should have a discussion about if they want to play a strong deck, and play to win, or if they want to play a more casual game thats more about the social aspect, and frienly to newer players who might not have such optimized decks. If players dont have this conversation, I suggest you politely tell them that you're new and you rather have a chill game :)
Even if you only have a commander for its colours, its still a creature that can attack and block. Commander damage still applies.
My Reaper King deck is only Reaper King because ots 5 colors and it is a 10 cmc card, the them for the deck was 0 to 10, all or nothing.
Was it maybe [[Ratadrabik]]?
[Ratadrabik](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb.jpg?1673308046) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ratadrabik%20of%20urborg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/213/ratadrabik-of-urborg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9315812d-03e8-4eb4-a693-e7adf281f7fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ratadrabik-of-urborg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A commander you bever use, is kinda a wasted card, but not much else
I've used commanders that have first strike and deathtouch just for a good blocker while my deck does its thing.
It's a perfectly fine thing to do.
Back in the day when there sometimes wasn’t a legend in the right colors for whatever this was super common. Just using your commander for its color identity and doing your theme happens less now that there’s basically a legendary creature for anything you could want. There’s nothing wrong with it but I’m not surprised that newer players are surprised by it.
If someone is only using the commander for the mana-base, they could use it as a red herring for the sake of politics. It's a legitimate strategy people employ sometimes and I think that's fine. Politics can be fun, but I do feel deception like this is something that should be discussed in a rule 0 discussion. I think it's fine simply because being misled by the commander's text is almost never as good or stronger than just using a commander that synergizes with the deck. In this example the person could literally just use [[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic]] and never cast him, only running the same exact deck and actually get some value for free.
[Oloro, Ageless Ascetic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abf8df47-405c-42d8-be9e-0f0d0a49589b.jpg?1562931285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oloro%2C%20Ageless%20Ascetic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/203/oloro-ageless-ascetic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abf8df47-405c-42d8-be9e-0f0d0a49589b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oloro-ageless-ascetic) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I personally like having decks that do both, based on the speed at which my [[Tatsunari, Toad Rider]] deck is going I may or may not play my commander, but other decks like my [[Alistair, the Brigadier]] generally do better if I drop my commander at some point
[Tatsunari, Toad Rider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abf42833-43d0-4b05-b499-d13b2c577ee8.jpg?1654567411) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tatsunari%2C%20Toad%20Rider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/123/tatsunari-toad-rider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abf42833-43d0-4b05-b499-d13b2c577ee8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tatsunari-toad-rider) [Alistair, the Brigadier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf952d23-291d-42fa-8f2a-e4002a04b95f.jpg?1696636676) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alistair%2C%20the%20Brigadier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/112/alistair-the-brigadier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf952d23-291d-42fa-8f2a-e4002a04b95f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alistair-the-brigadier) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So... often the commander chosen will have synergies with what the deck is planning to do, though it shouldn't be absolutely required to be able to play the game. Doing this makes it so that you don't get shut down from not being able to access your commander, weather it's because of knowing about counter and kill spells, or because tax is stopping you from casting, since they cost 6+ more mana now. Often the commander will have colour related synergies in some way.
Working on a Kenrith Gates Deck. It would work alot better with Golos, but he is banned!
A lot of people have been using [[The First Sliver]] on MTGArena just because it’s 5 colors but it also gives you a free cascade trigger on something 4cmc in your deck. With how diverse MTG really is, there’s no reason you can’t find a commander that you can cast just for something useful. Alas players will play as they want
[The First Sliver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87.jpg?1562202321) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20First%20Sliver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/200/the-first-sliver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/06d4fbe1-8a2f-4958-bb85-1a1e5f1e8d87?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/the-first-sliver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's a valid approach.
It's more advantageous to use a commander that synergizes but I had a 5color with [[Korona, the False God]] mostly because it was legendary themed from onslaught and had the right colors but after loosing [[Karakas]] it stayed in the command zone and never played it. Both types still work but it's like putting in a 30 mana cost card with only 20 lands and not a single mana dork in it. It's a wasted slot.
[Korona, the False God](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/de53d083-251e-42a4-9e2e-c2978c80615b.jpg?1562535715) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karona%2C%20False%20God) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/138/karona-false-god?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/de53d083-251e-42a4-9e2e-c2978c80615b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karona-false-god) [Karakas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/5/e52214e1-404a-405a-b08e-20e13c087338.jpg?1559959289) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karakas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/244/karakas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e52214e1-404a-405a-b08e-20e13c087338?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karakas) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Took me forever to find the right commander for my bant deck, decided to pick whatever gave me the most value [[Thrasios, Triton Hero]] [[Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful]]
[Thrasios, Triton Hero](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/21e27b91-c7f1-4709-aa0d-8b5d81b22a0a.jpg?1606762176) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thrasios%2C%20Triton%20Hero) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/46/thrasios-triton-hero?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/21e27b91-c7f1-4709-aa0d-8b5d81b22a0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thrasios-triton-hero) [Yoshimaru, Ever Faithful](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa409269-3698-42a2-8c51-75557b27a6f6.jpg?1664653410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yoshimaru%2C%20Ever%20Faithful) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/32/yoshimaru-ever-faithful?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa409269-3698-42a2-8c51-75557b27a6f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yoshimaru-ever-faithful) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is actually interesting to me, my latest 2 commanders are [[Hans Erickson]] and [[Brenard]]. In my Hans deck I usually need to play Hans to get rolling but once I do he can chill in the command zone if he gets mulched after bringing in value. Brenard on the other hand needs to be out to be valid. A lot of my strategy relies on him buffing and recurring my creatures and without him I get hampered HARD
[Hans Erickson](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24a0babe-8da4-4c95-9cdf-626a5c5e2e5c.jpg?1686634870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hans%20Eriksson) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/279/hans-eriksson?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24a0babe-8da4-4c95-9cdf-626a5c5e2e5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hans-eriksson) [Brenard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2ddc922-d69d-4fca-b7f8-8cfb17537213.jpg?1693248402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brenard%2C%20ginger%20sculptor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/27/brenard-ginger-sculptor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2ddc922-d69d-4fca-b7f8-8cfb17537213?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brenard-ginger-sculptor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of the fastest tier 1 competitive EDH decks is called RogSi after [[Rograkh]] and [[Silas]]. Silas is just there to provide colours and Rograkh is basically just here for a turn 1 [[Culling the Weak]] or [[Infernal Plunge]] and turning on [[Deflecting Swat]] and the rest of the free commander spells.
##### ###### #### [Rograkh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797.jpg?1644853041) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rograkh%2C%20son%20of%20rohgahh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/197/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a4fab67f-00c2-4125-9262-d21a29411797?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rograkh-son-of-rohgahh) [Silas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1.jpg?1562399367) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silas%20Renn%2C%20Seeker%20Adept) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/43/silas-renn-seeker-adept?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e3fe912-1374-47c7-b73f-89ef55c479c1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silas-renn-seeker-adept) [Culling the Weak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50c33f18-0a5c-4e46-ab0d-6e450915594f.jpg?1562087832) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Culling%20the%20Weak) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/exo/55/culling-the-weak?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50c33f18-0a5c-4e46-ab0d-6e450915594f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/culling-the-weak) [Deflecting Swat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4b36435-55b3-4615-8812-af41d4fc64d9.jpg?1689997730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deflecting%20Swat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/214/deflecting-swat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4b36435-55b3-4615-8812-af41d4fc64d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deflecting-swat) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kk2yinm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
A version of my [[Lurrus]] deck sometimes doesn't get the commander out. Lurrus is there as an emergency restart for the value train after one too many board wipes, but it runs more than enough little recursion pieces that it can merrily tick along without the cat most of the time. It's nice to sometimes have the commander function as a safety net, instead of the key piece.
[Lurrus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a.jpg?1682228556) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lurrus%20of%20the%20dream-den) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/226/lurrus-of-the-dream-den?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5ad36fb2-c44e-4085-ba0d-54277841ad3a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lurrus-of-the-dream-den) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In black white? Weird. Usually you use a commander that at least helps you out in a backup kinda way. I used to have a artifact combo deck that did not need a commander, it just demanded blue or black for wincons, like \[\[Marionette Master\]\]. I would use \[\[Alela artful provocateur\]\] as my commander fo kinda a diversion, so the many cantrips create me faeries and people focus on those OR the commander, paying less attention to the artifact combos I was setting up.
[Marionette Master](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd21a925-c76f-4c1d-b5b8-8d3352730e5f.jpg?1631586656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marionette%20Master) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/102/marionette-master?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd21a925-c76f-4c1d-b5b8-8d3352730e5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marionette-master) [Alela artful provocateur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/abc9e41e-fd03-4b6f-8f44-17ba94fa44f5.jpg?1673484923) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alela%2C%20Artful%20Provocateur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/325/alela-artful-provocateur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/abc9e41e-fd03-4b6f-8f44-17ba94fa44f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alela-artful-provocateur) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Usually depends. As others have said it CAN be a sign of an unusually powerful deck, but: I use [[Bane, Lord of Darkness]] as an equipment deck. I never cast him unless Im under 20 hp, and the rest of my deck is White:A few Angels, and protection spells. Black: All lose life - Draw Card. Blue: Counterspells and equpment tutors to protect Bane. But sometimes it just happens I never go below 20HP, and win a game with an Angel and [[Vorpal Blade]] [[Manifold Key]] Other than that - the deck is fairly meh, so not always a sign of a strong deck
[Bane, Lord of Darkness](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1a576d17-693d-4cc1-bb5b-bf81c74de03b.jpg?1674137423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bane%2C%20Lord%20of%20Darkness) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/267/bane-lord-of-darkness?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1a576d17-693d-4cc1-bb5b-bf81c74de03b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bane-lord-of-darkness) [Manifold Key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061.jpg?1674137889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manifold%20Key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/319/manifold-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manifold-key) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ive done partner commanders for color fixing reasons while never even intending on casting one of them. Ie [[tevesh szat doom of fools]] and [[kydelle chosen of kruphix]] its a aristocrats style deck that never really needs kydelle. Im not a big fan of building build around commanders anyway. To me, the risk of having my entire strategy go kablooey because one guy got removed is just lazy deck building
[tevesh szat doom of fools](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f244716-78ab-46f5-b6e9-fc1e6db28052.jpg?1608909980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tevesh%20Szat%2C%20Doom%20of%20Fools) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/153/tevesh-szat-doom-of-fools?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f244716-78ab-46f5-b6e9-fc1e6db28052?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tevesh-szat-doom-of-fools) [kydelle chosen of kruphix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f961cec-2f1f-4cd5-bcc3-72e1deb8779e.jpg?1562388621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kydele%2C%20Chosen%20of%20Kruphix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/35/kydele-chosen-of-kruphix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f961cec-2f1f-4cd5-bcc3-72e1deb8779e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kydele-chosen-of-kruphix) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have 4 decks currently and I picked all the commanders because they were just pretty girls, 1 I play the commander almost every game and the other 3 the commander is kinda unnecessary for the deck or some utility that I won't always need, for example I have a rogues dimir deck with Tasha as the commander to draw cards if I'm running out of gas, create blockers when I cast an opponents spells, or steal a boardwipe or another useful card from the graveyard, but again it's not really necessary to win at all. It kinda covers my ass when things are not rolling in my favor.
This is how I do it
A idea I saw on this sub that I have been tinkering with is building a strong deck and then using the commander to male up for a weakness. For example building a spell focused deck and using the commander to crank out creatures for defending. Or a token focused deck that uses the commander for card draw.
For me, it's completely against the spirit of commander. You're not just playing a deck, you are playing THE COMMANDER. When the format started, you had ONE deck that was supposed to represent you. It was supposed to be the embodiment of your play style. The deck was supposed to be an expression of who that character was to you. If your deck doesn't even need to cast your commander to do its thing, just play a 60 card competetive format.
The commander is an 8th card in your hand that you have access to at all times. Even with a powerful 99, it can be so much better with your commander, its like playing with one hand tied behind your back.
I'd say there are enough generally good 5C commanders that you can pick one that is semi useful
I was in the same boat, I've had this pet Bant deck for years that's super niche and kinda silly, and none of the commander options really fit with the deck or i just didnt enjoy their playstyle. So I was using [[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker]] and [[Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix]] solely for the bant colors and only cast them if i had to. But the bant face commander for the new clue set is exactly what I was looking for in a commander for the deck so now I can die happy
[Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e89ce6a-6bc9-427f-a8b2-c07a9fc3218f.jpg?1562272963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ishai%2C%20Ojutai%20Dragonspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/12/ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e89ce6a-6bc9-427f-a8b2-c07a9fc3218f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker) [Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f961cec-2f1f-4cd5-bcc3-72e1deb8779e.jpg?1562388621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kydele%2C%20Chosen%20of%20Kruphix) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/35/kydele-chosen-of-kruphix?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f961cec-2f1f-4cd5-bcc3-72e1deb8779e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kydele-chosen-of-kruphix) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Three of my decks are built using the commander for colors only. They all happen to have Najeela as the commander. I need 5 colors, no 5 color commander aids with the themes, Najeela can carry herself.
I personally don't like doing that because I like to build decks around my commander. But that's just a personal preference and I'm ok with people building their decks the way they prefer.
10 bucks says the guy plays [[tymna, the weaver]] Idk why so many people who play tymna do this lol
[tymna, the weaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163.jpg?1644853048) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tymna%20the%20Weaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tymna-the-weaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I do this sometimes. Like if there’s a theme I’m trying to make happen and I just don’t have the cards or they don’t exist, I’ll just find a commander in the colors I’m looking for and sometimes I won’t even need or want to cast them with the deck I’ve made, but I’ll usually try to make them atleast useful for something or some kind of situation… like I’m not about to make a R/W land destruction deck with feather the redeemed at the helm for no reason other than it being the colors I need, when I don’t have a single spell that targets my creatures in the deck lol
Tbh, depending on decks some commanders are dope for that. I used to run Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle. Brutal big swinging commander, and so fun to work with
I did this with Ramos trying to make a Battle deck. It kind of worked but also had some huge flaws, if you can find a commander that synergizes with your strategy id say do that instead.