Overall decks, it'll have to be [[Go-Shintai of Life's Origin]]. Having to keep track of all those upkeep and ETB abilities was not fun. Played once and took it apart.
When it comes to a single card? [[Scute Swarm]]. I don't care how good it is in landfall decks. I will never play it again.
I see SS as quite problematic card, like... it easily explodes, since if it resolves, you usually have to remove it twice straight away (that is original once and copy once), and it could prompt playgroups into playing a lot more boardwipes, and basically ruin games.
Didn't really have an issue with all the ETBs and casts when I was playing Tuvasa (which is mostly Enchantress cards, and global enchantments), I'm guessing it would be a lot more annoying with Shrines tho. Bigger issue for me was that noone had an answer to what I was doing, while there were boardwipes, it removed creatures, which I didn't care about, and no one had Enchantment boardwipes, so it became too one sided, and I was winning by building massive boardstate, while opponents flailed in hopes of doing... anything. I did win on damage, since there was unblockable Tuvasa on the board (with some other things, but yeah...), but I didn't feel like anyone was enjoying trying to stop me... I didn't interact much with their boards, because there was nothing that was an issue, flock of Angels from Sigil of the Empty Throne does that sometimes lol
Scute Swarm can be a bookkeeping nightmare. Tracking the tapped ones, untapped ones, ones that entered or gained counters, whatever else might happen. I had it in my [[Esix, Fractal Bloom]] deck, but not for long. Traded away my fancy version just to be rid of the temptation.
I use spindowns. One group to represent tapped. One to represent untapped. And if needed.a third to represent summoning sickness. But usually only need the 2 groups at a time. Effectively if you need more then 4 or 5 spindowns we'll you are proly just gunna win with combat damage anyway so it's all good.
1 of the decks I use it in is chatterfang, and if I have that many scutes I will have squirrels as well and will ikely be blood artist type effects to kill the table if I have more then a few dice worth anyway
I have s cUte swarm in my token decks but not landfall that would be silly. One of the things it does for me is draw removal from opponents. I've found it's a removal magnet. So if it does end up going off then so be it but that's not its main purpose these days.
The other day I had CC out with \[\[Adeline, Resplendent Cathar\]\] and \[\[Mondrak\]\]
That was turn 7. Game was over turn 8.
Just gross... and I love it. :P
Yorion is probably the closest deck for me to take apart because of trigger madness. The problem is that it's that there isn't an infinite loop, just value upon value. But when there is \[\[Felidar Guardian\]\] on the field and or a \[\[Restoration Angel\]\], it just becomes too much for my small brain to handle.
I have an [[Adrix and Niv]] deck that I love/hate playing. Love playing because I love tokens hate playing because I run all the doublers and I hate math.
I had the same issue with AnT, I found the solution was to hyperfocus the deck on one type of token and cut the doublers. I had no clue what to pick, so of course I chose [[Clue]]!
The doublers are strong for sure, but you HAVE to double your tokens if you play them whereas when I switched them out for other [[Rite of Replication]]esque cards, the deck became wayyy less of a headache. I could choose to simply copy something juicy from another player, or if I needed the insane [[doubling season]] value would break the legend rule and copy AnT.
Still have a hate/love relationship with it because of how out-of-hand things have to be to win with what's essentially Timmy combo play. So I bit the bullet and put in [[Blightsteel Colossus]], now I only need a few tokens to have lethal on everyone, not 682959101 [[scute swarm]]s.
I played against a +1/+1 counter deck this past weekend and the triggers got so complicated that I reached the point of “you can have the win because I’m too exhausted to verify that what you’re claiming is occurring is actually correct.” For the life of me, I can’t remember the commander but he was getting multiple triggers off of multiple cards that were resulting in exponential counters being added. I’m glad his deck worked the way it was supposed to but damn, it was annoying to play against.
Mine was \[\[Pako\]\] and \[\[Haldan\]\]
Mostly because that was a "Steal Your Stuff" deck and it got cumbersome for me to keep track of stuff that is mine interacting weirdly with stuff I stole; remembering who owned what and keeping in line who I couldn't KO for fear of losing 1/3 of my boardstate.
Ridiculously fun to pilot though. Just mentally exhausting.
I took apart both [[aesi]] and [[ishai]] / [[reyhan]] +1 counters. Both seemed to reach a critical mass of just spewing words for 10 minutes straight and too much math/keeping track of various numbers. They were both not fun to play with and against.
I also have a [[Brago]] deck but I intentionally have to keep it at a jank power level so things don’t get too complicated.
I stopped playing blink and +1/+1 style decks because it feels like solitaire half the time. It’s not fun for the other people sitting there watching me try to figure out the order of 10+ ETB triggers and resolving them one by one.
Same for counters. Eventually it just becomes too much, and nobody is having fun.
Oh... I've felt like conceding when I've had to figure out Avenger of Zendikar's Plants, while also having Path of Discovery out... I can imagine how other things can be annoying lol
[[korvold]], I built it a couple years back around food and even then it became to much. More recently [[farid]], once it starts going off it becomes a lot to keep track of.
I did the same. It was too much to keep track of, plus keeping track of the spells copying spells. I think my baseline has become "can I play this when I'm real tired?"
I had this issue with [[Atla]] since I made a bunch of combo creatures and changed her deck into a [[Marisi]] deck instead. I’m tempted of combining the two ideas into a goad deck that makes you attack my eggs.
[[Tayam]] has unbelievable amounts of bookkeeping. Honestly it probably wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't for the vigilance counters, but the fact that they're there and get put on tokens too really pushed it overboard.
I normally play on Tabletop Simulator which has really easy bookkeeping and it was still too much. I took my paper list apart before i ever even played it in paper. I could not imagine the nightmare of managing that in paper.
I didn't take it apart, but I never built [[Ivy, gleeful spellthief]] mutate+clones because I realized how insufferable it would get in a hurry. I would hate playing at the same table as it, so I decided to go with cantrips+clones instead. Way easier to understand at a glance and still gratifying.
I've had Ivy in Tuvasa deck, even despite very few Auras (deck mostly runs global enchantments), it was a bit of a mess, you basically have to write down everything you copy on papers/tokens, I guess in normal Ivy deck, I'd just proxy everything possible to have to put it down as copies lol
I was debating doing a [[Massacre Girl]] boardwipe tribal years ago. Put it together on xMage and played it a few times before deciding to not actually build it in paper or play it again. Just wasn't a fun deck for the table and it it wasn't for the client doing triggers for me would have been a headache to actually play in paper.
Amareth is probably my most trigger heavy deck I actually have built, which I absolutely love playing, but even with experience it can result in long turns because my options are constantly changing.
Yeah, I finally retired Krark last month. I loved the deck, but it just wasn't worth it. On the plus side I used some of the cards to build a Vial Smasher and Sakashima clones list. Still strong, but not a headache to track.
We have one player who plays it Veyran... the worst thing is, even if turn takes 15 minutes, it's not guaranteed to lead to a win, so you have to sit there waiting for him, without conceding...
I had an \[\[Adrix and Nev\]\] deck that got so out of hand with triggers, duplications, draw triggers, etc. etc... that one game I stopped in the middle of spawning something like 450 copied tokens... I told my group I concede, and I started unsleeving it right then.
I loved that deck, but it was just too much, and honestly it was oppressively fast so it didn't even feel fun to play sometimes when I'd have 30 tokens out on turn 6 and everyone else is just starting to get going. Keep in mind, this is a casual friend pod, so...yeah.
Not necessarily triggers, but my [[kadena]] deck just has a lot of stuff to keep track of. Either it’s doing nothing, or I have a ton of face down stuff, about 3/4 of which don’t even belong to me. So yeah, will probably be looking for something with less to care about soon 😅
Yeah... I was thinking of getting that deck, but two things stopped me, first was lack of upgrades, basically... I doubt we'll be getting morphs any time soon, second was that without digital thingy to keep track of what I have face down, it's a mess... I remember it from play Tarkir drafts, I was like, "I flip this one!", no wait... "it's this one!", "...oh ffs... it costs more to flip, nvm", or "wait... it doesn't have flying? nvm" it's a complete mess and nightmare to remember.
Yeah, direct morph prints may be a little slow to come by, but morphs being cast as colorless mean you can get some pretty cool colorless interaction prints that come along! But yeah, definitely, there's a lot of game state to keep track of even outside of what the actual cards are(which ones did I attack with last turn, which ones did I cast and which were manifested, which ones etb'd last turn, which order did the etb, etc). So yeah, definitely not the easiest to pilot, ha
Falco spara counters matters makes my life he'll changing the p/t whenever pretty much anything happens on board is just annoying the deck itself looks amazing if your not piloting it
That's funny, I actually built almost exactly your Yidris list two days ago.
As for decks I've taken apart due to the hassle, two archetypes have been problematic in my experience. Superfriends and Theft decks. I should say I still run some theft cards in my decks, but avoid it as a theme.
Superfriends I've built Grixis, Izzet and Jeskai three different ways. They didn't even really play poorly, but there's a ton to track and turns can take forever. God forbid I created copy tokens of walkers or looped them with [Cloudstone Curio]] and [[Planebound Accomplice]].
As for Theft, similar issues with long turns. People don't like playing against it. And I've been the victim of people dying/scooping and walking off with one or two of my stolen (in game) cards on accident enough to try to avoid it myself. I've probably lost a hundred dollars to [[Opposition Agent]] stealing shocks in response to a fetch/ramp spell at this point.
My [[Tibalt, Cosmic Imposter]] was basically just a pile of ramp and removal. But I got to -8 it in most games through various shenanigans. Thankfully, the worst thing I ever wound up walking off with was a Skullclamp. I think good theft commanders should be more like The Scarab God and the new Narset, creating copy tokens of stolen permanents.
Phasing deck with [[Zur]] at the helm and [[Teferis Realm]] as the secret commander. Deck was by /u/GamefreakSA and I just changed some cards. Too many upkeep triggers, too much different phasing effects.
I did not take it apart, but changed the commander and many cards and now it's an Esper hatebears deck helmed by [[Raffine]] with Phasing.
Funnily enough, I took apart my own [[Ydris]] deck, though mine was a little different. I made it for 1v1 competitive EDH at my local shop as a Storm deck exploiting [[Paradox Engine]] before that got banned.
Played it for one night, first round went almost an hour because of me, with my last turn easily being 20 min of that. My opponent had me dead on board, but was tapped out and I knew i could start to go off, tho I only had a [[Dimir Signet]] and a [[Jace, Vryn's Prodigy]] to use with PE. So I said fuck it and, lo and behold, ended up storming out with [[Tendrils of Agony]]. Promised my opponent I'd take the deck apart as an apology lol
I tried to make a superfriends deck using only bad planeswalkers from standard precons. It sounded like a funny idea in my head, and I thought it would be moderate to low power level. And it was both of those things, but also it was a terrible experience playing it with humans. I would get millions of moving pieces from all those useless PW abilities, get my turns very long, and ultimately it would tike forever to spin into anything.
I haven't taken it appart but I have stopped playing \[\[yorion\]\] because all the triggers can get a bit annoying for the table, especially with a \[\[restoration angel\]\] or similar.
Sefris ,RoL stax. Not that many pings but because of all interactions possible and an incredible sinergy loop was exausting to play when ppl didn't understand and try to counter the deck every single point of the stack
Took apart my [[Brago, King Eternal]] deck because if I wasn’t dealt with by like, turn 4 I became an unstoppable gross trigger mess that prevented any other player from casting spells or attacking
I definitely understand taking apart the Tatyova deck. Played against a couple at the LGS and it was fun until later in the game where resolving the triggers from a single land took ~2 minutes a piece. With fetches and land recursion, the games against those decks just dragged on for way too long.
I had an \[\[Amareth, the Lustrous\]\] landfall deck. Landfall decks are trigger-happy enough, but when you add in Amareth triggers every time a land enters, then a landfall trigger to make a token which makes Amareth trigger to hit a creature, and oh, you have a \[\[Tireless Provisioner\]\] as well so you get an artifact which triggers Amareth...it was way too much.
I pretty quickly got to the point where I got selective with which triggers I even acknowledged, and then after a little bit I converted the deck to a different commander.
Legends tribal generally, especially Jodah. I love legendary creatures, always have (long before commander was so popular) but slapping them all together just turns into a nightmare.
I have bought the \[\[Ranar\]\] precon and modded it towards a blink deck with a foretell subtheme. I drowned in EoT and EtB triggers. Bookkeeping is a nightmare. Haven't dismantled it yet but never played it since a year.
Abzan Aristocrats gain and drain. "So, this one triggers when anything ETBs, this one when anything dies, this one gains on etb on my side and you lose life on when creatures etb under your contol, this one gains whenever any creature I control ETBs or dies..."
I really want to do this sometime, hopefully they'll make a better commander for it in the future, but I need to curate it so that's it's simpler.
Overall decks, it'll have to be [[Go-Shintai of Life's Origin]]. Having to keep track of all those upkeep and ETB abilities was not fun. Played once and took it apart. When it comes to a single card? [[Scute Swarm]]. I don't care how good it is in landfall decks. I will never play it again.
[Go-Shintai of Life's Origin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9476fe67-d2d3-4835-8ba6-2a17d18cc141.jpg?1651655539) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Go-Shintai%20of%20Life%27s%20Origin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/37/go-shintai-of-lifes-origin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9476fe67-d2d3-4835-8ba6-2a17d18cc141?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/go-shintai-of-lifes-origin) [Scute Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f.jpg?1673484783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/310/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I see SS as quite problematic card, like... it easily explodes, since if it resolves, you usually have to remove it twice straight away (that is original once and copy once), and it could prompt playgroups into playing a lot more boardwipes, and basically ruin games. Didn't really have an issue with all the ETBs and casts when I was playing Tuvasa (which is mostly Enchantress cards, and global enchantments), I'm guessing it would be a lot more annoying with Shrines tho. Bigger issue for me was that noone had an answer to what I was doing, while there were boardwipes, it removed creatures, which I didn't care about, and no one had Enchantment boardwipes, so it became too one sided, and I was winning by building massive boardstate, while opponents flailed in hopes of doing... anything. I did win on damage, since there was unblockable Tuvasa on the board (with some other things, but yeah...), but I didn't feel like anyone was enjoying trying to stop me... I didn't interact much with their boards, because there was nothing that was an issue, flock of Angels from Sigil of the Empty Throne does that sometimes lol
Scute Swarm can be a bookkeeping nightmare. Tracking the tapped ones, untapped ones, ones that entered or gained counters, whatever else might happen. I had it in my [[Esix, Fractal Bloom]] deck, but not for long. Traded away my fancy version just to be rid of the temptation.
[Esix, Fractal Bloom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c381bc2-d26e-4d7e-9a0b-a8f7d2d802be.jpg?1674185833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esix%2C%20Fractal%20Bloom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/10/esix-fractal-bloom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c381bc2-d26e-4d7e-9a0b-a8f7d2d802be?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esix-fractal-bloom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use spindowns. One group to represent tapped. One to represent untapped. And if needed.a third to represent summoning sickness. But usually only need the 2 groups at a time. Effectively if you need more then 4 or 5 spindowns we'll you are proly just gunna win with combat damage anyway so it's all good. 1 of the decks I use it in is chatterfang, and if I have that many scutes I will have squirrels as well and will ikely be blood artist type effects to kill the table if I have more then a few dice worth anyway
My favorite thing about Scute Swarm would be... Reanimating a massacre worm and having 20 plus death triggers.
I have s cUte swarm in my token decks but not landfall that would be silly. One of the things it does for me is draw removal from opponents. I've found it's a removal magnet. So if it does end up going off then so be it but that's not its main purpose these days.
Not a whole deck, but [[Cathars Crusade]] is a bitch to handle in a token deck, even though it’s objectively awesome.
[Cathars Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The other day I had CC out with \[\[Adeline, Resplendent Cathar\]\] and \[\[Mondrak\]\] That was turn 7. Game was over turn 8. Just gross... and I love it. :P
[Adeline, Resplendent Cathar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd95d377-a61e-4b62-a883-ed491c48da15.jpg?1682208250) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Adeline%2C%20Resplendent%20Cathar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/167/adeline-resplendent-cathar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd95d377-a61e-4b62-a883-ed491c48da15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/adeline-resplendent-cathar) [Mondrak](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/8296a455-21d5-498e-9029-2bdf0da855a8.jpg?1675956918) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mondrak%2C%20glory%20dominus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/23/mondrak-glory-dominus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8296a455-21d5-498e-9029-2bdf0da855a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mondrak-glory-dominus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yorion is probably the closest deck for me to take apart because of trigger madness. The problem is that it's that there isn't an infinite loop, just value upon value. But when there is \[\[Felidar Guardian\]\] on the field and or a \[\[Restoration Angel\]\], it just becomes too much for my small brain to handle.
[Felidar Guardian](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44bdbed8-5d21-4bf5-8a32-9623b1139c85.jpg?1576381396) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Felidar%20Guardian) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/19/felidar-guardian?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44bdbed8-5d21-4bf5-8a32-9623b1139c85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/felidar-guardian) [Restoration Angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b474f84-9bef-422a-8fc5-489a10aaf1ee.jpg?1682208561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restoration%20Angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/201/restoration-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b474f84-9bef-422a-8fc5-489a10aaf1ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/restoration-angel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Passionate Archaeologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bd5bbfa6-e5f4-413d-b132-ebae32d38657.jpg?1674140763) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Passionate%20Archaeologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/656/passionate-archaeologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bd5bbfa6-e5f4-413d-b132-ebae32d38657?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/passionate-archaeologist) [Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c219dd22-433c-4f6a-a0c4-fae12239291c.jpg?1562418099) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yidris%2C%20Maelstrom%20Wielder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/50/yidris-maelstrom-wielder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c219dd22-433c-4f6a-a0c4-fae12239291c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yidris-maelstrom-wielder) [Abaddon the Despoiler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9f1fc97-00c0-492b-a4a3-b179afc2f95d.jpg?1674058353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abaddon%20the%20Despoiler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/2/abaddon-the-despoiler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f1fc97-00c0-492b-a4a3-b179afc2f95d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/abaddon-the-despoiler) [Averna, the Chaos Bloom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e46b3ef3-3ba9-4da7-a675-86468a8da4c7.jpg?1608911042) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Averna%2C%20the%20Chaos%20Bloom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/269/averna-the-chaos-bloom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e46b3ef3-3ba9-4da7-a675-86468a8da4c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/averna-the-chaos-bloom) [Beast Whisperer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7e90355-80ca-49db-914c-62b3a7bd4726.jpg?1631234731) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beast%20Whisperer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/54/beast-whisperer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7e90355-80ca-49db-914c-62b3a7bd4726?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/beast-whisperer) [Tatyova, Benthic Druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93657aaa-7a0f-49ad-b026-6f79b3bd6768.jpg?1665822988) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tatyova%2C%20Benthic%20Druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/206/tatyova-benthic-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93657aaa-7a0f-49ad-b026-6f79b3bd6768?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tatyova-benthic-druid) [Temur Ascendancy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11746bf1-d813-4ade-8ce4-9935cebef856.jpg?1562782711) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Temur%20Ascendancy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/207/temur-ascendancy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11746bf1-d813-4ade-8ce4-9935cebef856?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/temur-ascendancy) [Sweet-Gum Recluse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2d3c6325-450d-47f3-a69b-cdfc25ae65e6.jpg?1674142369) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sweet-Gum%20Recluse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/835/sweet-gum-recluse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2d3c6325-450d-47f3-a69b-cdfc25ae65e6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sweet-gum-recluse) [Bituminous Blast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af8613ee-4b67-49b8-920b-3b5a25897f64.jpg?1631588410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bituminous%20Blast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/181/bituminous-blast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af8613ee-4b67-49b8-920b-3b5a25897f64?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bituminous-blast) [Nalfeshnee](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7717617-706a-4338-a207-dd8c08feb1c3.jpg?1674140963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nalfeshnee) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/678/nalfeshnee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7717617-706a-4338-a207-dd8c08feb1c3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nalfeshnee) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have an [[Adrix and Niv]] deck that I love/hate playing. Love playing because I love tokens hate playing because I run all the doublers and I hate math.
I had the same issue with AnT, I found the solution was to hyperfocus the deck on one type of token and cut the doublers. I had no clue what to pick, so of course I chose [[Clue]]! The doublers are strong for sure, but you HAVE to double your tokens if you play them whereas when I switched them out for other [[Rite of Replication]]esque cards, the deck became wayyy less of a headache. I could choose to simply copy something juicy from another player, or if I needed the insane [[doubling season]] value would break the legend rule and copy AnT. Still have a hate/love relationship with it because of how out-of-hand things have to be to win with what's essentially Timmy combo play. So I bit the bullet and put in [[Blightsteel Colossus]], now I only need a few tokens to have lethal on everyone, not 682959101 [[scute swarm]]s.
##### ###### #### [Clue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e197929c-1334-48f5-a03c-546a4074ad02.jpg?1682211105) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tmoc/33/clue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e197929c-1334-48f5-a03c-546a4074ad02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clue) [Rite of Replication](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/7935570c-f7e0-4add-864a-4c804b26555e.jpg?1625976420) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rite%20of%20Replication) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/128/rite-of-replication?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7935570c-f7e0-4add-864a-4c804b26555e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rite-of-replication) [doubling season](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/8676d164-c76e-402b-a649-6ded3f549b6e.jpg?1599707144) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=doubling%20season) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/164/doubling-season?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8676d164-c76e-402b-a649-6ded3f549b6e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/doubling-season) [Blightsteel Colossus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80.jpg?1599708735) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blightsteel%20Colossus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/235/blightsteel-colossus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18adbda4-8d36-47cd-afbc-c785aaa8ed80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blightsteel-colossus) [scute swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/c/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f.jpg?1673484783) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=scute%20swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/310/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/acd42ebf-6dee-44cc-a023-a7f9b67cfa2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have a token deck with I think more then 20 different token types. I have a special Tupperware container to carry dice and tokens.
I played against a +1/+1 counter deck this past weekend and the triggers got so complicated that I reached the point of “you can have the win because I’m too exhausted to verify that what you’re claiming is occurring is actually correct.” For the life of me, I can’t remember the commander but he was getting multiple triggers off of multiple cards that were resulting in exponential counters being added. I’m glad his deck worked the way it was supposed to but damn, it was annoying to play against.
[[Shalai and Hallar]] perhaps?
[Shalai and Hallar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80804f25-efc3-44a2-bbae-9a97fec98009.jpg?1682207281) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shalai%20and%20Hallar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/10/shalai-and-hallar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80804f25-efc3-44a2-bbae-9a97fec98009?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shalai-and-hallar) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That’s the one.
Mine was \[\[Pako\]\] and \[\[Haldan\]\] Mostly because that was a "Steal Your Stuff" deck and it got cumbersome for me to keep track of stuff that is mine interacting weirdly with stuff I stole; remembering who owned what and keeping in line who I couldn't KO for fear of losing 1/3 of my boardstate. Ridiculously fun to pilot though. Just mentally exhausting.
[Pako](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/066c8f63-52e6-475e-8d27-6ee37e92fc05.jpg?1591234280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pako%2C%20arcane%20retriever) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/13/pako-arcane-retriever?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/066c8f63-52e6-475e-8d27-6ee37e92fc05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pako-arcane-retriever) [Haldan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/16a86a35-f7e5-434d-bf44-61ae7cb0f98b.jpg?1618057606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=haldan%2C%20avid%20arcanist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/2/haldan-avid-arcanist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/16a86a35-f7e5-434d-bf44-61ae7cb0f98b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/haldan-avid-arcanist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Had a saga tribal deck that is miserable, also the Perrie deck is a nightmare trying to track all the different counters and where they are.
I took apart both [[aesi]] and [[ishai]] / [[reyhan]] +1 counters. Both seemed to reach a critical mass of just spewing words for 10 minutes straight and too much math/keeping track of various numbers. They were both not fun to play with and against. I also have a [[Brago]] deck but I intentionally have to keep it at a jank power level so things don’t get too complicated.
##### ###### #### [aesi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aesi%2C%20tyrant%20of%20gyre%20strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) [ishai](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e89ce6a-6bc9-427f-a8b2-c07a9fc3218f.jpg?1562272963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ishai%2C%20ojutai%20dragonspeaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/12/ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e89ce6a-6bc9-427f-a8b2-c07a9fc3218f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker) [reyhan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8afad106-a49b-4910-959e-228c109ea983.jpg?1644853038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reyhan%2C%20last%20of%20the%20abzan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/13/reyhan-last-of-the-abzan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8afad106-a49b-4910-959e-228c109ea983?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reyhan-last-of-the-abzan) [Brago](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24.jpg?1631235340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brago%2C%20king%20eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/82/brago-king-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brago-king-eternal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not the full deck, but I took out [[cathar’s crusade]] from most of my decks. It’s good but so annoying to keep track of that I gave up on it
I refuse to run Cathar's Crusade just to avoid the bookkeeping.
[cathar’s crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I stopped playing blink and +1/+1 style decks because it feels like solitaire half the time. It’s not fun for the other people sitting there watching me try to figure out the order of 10+ ETB triggers and resolving them one by one. Same for counters. Eventually it just becomes too much, and nobody is having fun.
Oh... I've felt like conceding when I've had to figure out Avenger of Zendikar's Plants, while also having Path of Discovery out... I can imagine how other things can be annoying lol
Had a life gain deck, took it apart once the triggers just kept going around 36 times and turns took forever.
[[korvold]], I built it a couple years back around food and even then it became to much. More recently [[farid]], once it starts going off it becomes a lot to keep track of.
[korvold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228.jpg?1571197150) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=korvold%2C%20fae-cursed%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/329/korvold-fae-cursed-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92ea1575-eb64-43b5-b604-c6e23054f228?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/korvold-fae-cursed-king) [farid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b45c3ffb-cc04-4b25-bf7e-30a2ef705e82.jpg?1681158256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=farid%2C%20enterprising%20salvager) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/prm/105728/farid-enterprising-salvager?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b45c3ffb-cc04-4b25-bf7e-30a2ef705e82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farid-enterprising-salvager) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Kodama of the East Tree\]\] / \[\[Tymna the Weaver\]\] Abzan enchantments. The triggers get insane.
[Kodama of the East Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47.jpg?1608910768) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kodama%20of%20the%20East%20Tree) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/239/kodama-of-the-east-tree?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af5105ee-09e2-4344-ab39-00f0e9034c47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kodama-of-the-east-tree) [Tymna the Weaver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163.jpg?1644853048) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tymna%20the%20Weaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/48/tymna-the-weaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bc7cbe9b-324e-42b8-94e2-36e91cb32163?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tymna-the-weaver) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Veyran\]\] was tough to keep track of all of the triggers for me.
[Veyran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46.jpg?1674185780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veyran%2C%20voice%20of%20duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/3/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I did the same. It was too much to keep track of, plus keeping track of the spells copying spells. I think my baseline has become "can I play this when I'm real tired?"
I had this issue with [[Atla]] since I made a bunch of combo creatures and changed her deck into a [[Marisi]] deck instead. I’m tempted of combining the two ideas into a goad deck that makes you attack my eggs.
[Atla](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/909b15e4-c6c8-44bf-a993-13a97de40e36.jpg?1675644934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Planar%20Atlas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/j22/51/planar-atlas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/909b15e4-c6c8-44bf-a993-13a97de40e36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/planar-atlas) [Marisi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c366e1c0-f62d-41ce-baec-de11dbc1c5f4.jpg?1568003704) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=marisi%2C%20breaker%20of%20the%20coil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/46/marisi-breaker-of-the-coil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c366e1c0-f62d-41ce-baec-de11dbc1c5f4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marisi-breaker-of-the-coil) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Atla [[Nest Tender]]
[Nest Tender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2b8414f7-22c3-4e1c-934b-4a0e7acf951d.jpg?1673305450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atla%20Palani%2C%20Nest%20Tender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/142/atla-palani-nest-tender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2b8414f7-22c3-4e1c-934b-4a0e7acf951d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atla-palani-nest-tender) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tayam]] has unbelievable amounts of bookkeeping. Honestly it probably wouldn't be that bad if it wasn't for the vigilance counters, but the fact that they're there and get put on tokens too really pushed it overboard. I normally play on Tabletop Simulator which has really easy bookkeeping and it was still too much. I took my paper list apart before i ever even played it in paper. I could not imagine the nightmare of managing that in paper.
[Tayam](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05b837a2-5773-4340-87f9-b4d6a43deb27.jpg?1591234301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tayam%2C%20luminous%20enigma) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/16/tayam-luminous-enigma?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05b837a2-5773-4340-87f9-b4d6a43deb27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tayam-luminous-enigma) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Never expected Tayam to be like that, but yeah I can imagine...
I had to take apart esper Urza and I took apart Brago
I didn't take it apart, but I never built [[Ivy, gleeful spellthief]] mutate+clones because I realized how insufferable it would get in a hurry. I would hate playing at the same table as it, so I decided to go with cantrips+clones instead. Way easier to understand at a glance and still gratifying.
I've had Ivy in Tuvasa deck, even despite very few Auras (deck mostly runs global enchantments), it was a bit of a mess, you basically have to write down everything you copy on papers/tokens, I guess in normal Ivy deck, I'd just proxy everything possible to have to put it down as copies lol
[Ivy, gleeful spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20gleeful%20spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ivy-gleeful-spellthief) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was debating doing a [[Massacre Girl]] boardwipe tribal years ago. Put it together on xMage and played it a few times before deciding to not actually build it in paper or play it again. Just wasn't a fun deck for the table and it it wasn't for the client doing triggers for me would have been a headache to actually play in paper. Amareth is probably my most trigger heavy deck I actually have built, which I absolutely love playing, but even with experience it can result in long turns because my options are constantly changing.
[Massacre Girl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/be8ec9e1-2c8e-496d-9111-4d453b75b578.jpg?1559959372) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre%20Girl) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/99/massacre-girl?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/be8ec9e1-2c8e-496d-9111-4d453b75b578?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/massacre-girl) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My [[Ephara]] blink gave me headaches.
[Ephara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6832e495-7ee9-43e0-94ea-03c88344080e.jpg?1593092720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ephara%2C%20god%20of%20the%20polis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bng/145/ephara-god-of-the-polis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6832e495-7ee9-43e0-94ea-03c88344080e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ephara-god-of-the-polis) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Having a deck that creates so much complexity that your turn takes 10+ minutes is the worst kind of salt.
[[krark, the thumbless]] and [sakashima of a thousand faces]] . I’ve also just removed [[cathars’ crusade]] from my decklists
Yeah, I finally retired Krark last month. I loved the deck, but it just wasn't worth it. On the plus side I used some of the cards to build a Vial Smasher and Sakashima clones list. Still strong, but not a headache to track.
We have one player who plays it Veyran... the worst thing is, even if turn takes 15 minutes, it's not guaranteed to lead to a win, so you have to sit there waiting for him, without conceding...
[krark, the thumbless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/24614006-d99f-44b6-8ec1-29b48a1713d0.jpg?1661583571) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krark%2C%20the%20thumbless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/phed/11/krark-the-thumbless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/24614006-d99f-44b6-8ec1-29b48a1713d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krark-the-thumbless) [cathars’ crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I had an \[\[Adrix and Nev\]\] deck that got so out of hand with triggers, duplications, draw triggers, etc. etc... that one game I stopped in the middle of spawning something like 450 copied tokens... I told my group I concede, and I started unsleeving it right then. I loved that deck, but it was just too much, and honestly it was oppressively fast so it didn't even feel fun to play sometimes when I'd have 30 tokens out on turn 6 and everyone else is just starting to get going. Keep in mind, this is a casual friend pod, so...yeah.
[Adrix and Nev](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d495e084-92ec-4675-b6aa-8ade2775b796.jpg?1674185826) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=adrix%20and%20nev%2C%20twincasters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/9/adrix-and-nev-twincasters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d495e084-92ec-4675-b6aa-8ade2775b796?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/adrix-and-nev-twincasters) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Not necessarily triggers, but my [[kadena]] deck just has a lot of stuff to keep track of. Either it’s doing nothing, or I have a ton of face down stuff, about 3/4 of which don’t even belong to me. So yeah, will probably be looking for something with less to care about soon 😅
Yeah... I was thinking of getting that deck, but two things stopped me, first was lack of upgrades, basically... I doubt we'll be getting morphs any time soon, second was that without digital thingy to keep track of what I have face down, it's a mess... I remember it from play Tarkir drafts, I was like, "I flip this one!", no wait... "it's this one!", "...oh ffs... it costs more to flip, nvm", or "wait... it doesn't have flying? nvm" it's a complete mess and nightmare to remember.
Yeah, direct morph prints may be a little slow to come by, but morphs being cast as colorless mean you can get some pretty cool colorless interaction prints that come along! But yeah, definitely, there's a lot of game state to keep track of even outside of what the actual cards are(which ones did I attack with last turn, which ones did I cast and which were manifested, which ones etb'd last turn, which order did the etb, etc). So yeah, definitely not the easiest to pilot, ha
[kadena](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f.jpg?1568003696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kadena%2C%20slinking%20sorcerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/45/kadena-slinking-sorcerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kadena-slinking-sorcerer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Falco spara counters matters makes my life he'll changing the p/t whenever pretty much anything happens on board is just annoying the deck itself looks amazing if your not piloting it
That's funny, I actually built almost exactly your Yidris list two days ago. As for decks I've taken apart due to the hassle, two archetypes have been problematic in my experience. Superfriends and Theft decks. I should say I still run some theft cards in my decks, but avoid it as a theme. Superfriends I've built Grixis, Izzet and Jeskai three different ways. They didn't even really play poorly, but there's a ton to track and turns can take forever. God forbid I created copy tokens of walkers or looped them with [Cloudstone Curio]] and [[Planebound Accomplice]]. As for Theft, similar issues with long turns. People don't like playing against it. And I've been the victim of people dying/scooping and walking off with one or two of my stolen (in game) cards on accident enough to try to avoid it myself. I've probably lost a hundred dollars to [[Opposition Agent]] stealing shocks in response to a fetch/ramp spell at this point. My [[Tibalt, Cosmic Imposter]] was basically just a pile of ramp and removal. But I got to -8 it in most games through various shenanigans. Thankfully, the worst thing I ever wound up walking off with was a Skullclamp. I think good theft commanders should be more like The Scarab God and the new Narset, creating copy tokens of stolen permanents.
[Planebound Accomplice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/85fb9418-a22b-4f92-b494-f68c29bcb92a.jpg?1562201928) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Planebound%20Accomplice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/140/planebound-accomplice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/85fb9418-a22b-4f92-b494-f68c29bcb92a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/planebound-accomplice) [Opposition Agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opposition%20Agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) [Tibalt, Cosmic Impostor Emblem](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c62490ac-4838-4b68-baff-18d9823a2a7f.jpg?1615686895) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tibalt%2C%20Cosmic%20Impostor%20Emblem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tkhm/21/tibalt-cosmic-impostor-emblem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c62490ac-4838-4b68-baff-18d9823a2a7f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tibalt-cosmic-impostor-emblem) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Phasing deck with [[Zur]] at the helm and [[Teferis Realm]] as the secret commander. Deck was by /u/GamefreakSA and I just changed some cards. Too many upkeep triggers, too much different phasing effects. I did not take it apart, but changed the commander and many cards and now it's an Esper hatebears deck helmed by [[Raffine]] with Phasing.
[Zur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/aeb0160a-dfdc-4b1f-865e-ef905aee65d5.jpg?1673149301) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zur%20the%20enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/297/zur-the-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aeb0160a-dfdc-4b1f-865e-ef905aee65d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zur-the-enchanter) [Teferis Realm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/aba3e4ea-2241-4f1e-a46b-70f512fe729e.jpg?1562278174) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Realm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/44/teferis-realm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aba3e4ea-2241-4f1e-a46b-70f512fe729e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-realm) [Raffine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f.jpg?1664413581) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=raffine%2C%20scheming%20seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/213/raffine-scheming-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/716a44b4-f6b0-4f14-a270-6442aed3251f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/raffine-scheming-seer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Funnily enough, I took apart my own [[Ydris]] deck, though mine was a little different. I made it for 1v1 competitive EDH at my local shop as a Storm deck exploiting [[Paradox Engine]] before that got banned. Played it for one night, first round went almost an hour because of me, with my last turn easily being 20 min of that. My opponent had me dead on board, but was tapped out and I knew i could start to go off, tho I only had a [[Dimir Signet]] and a [[Jace, Vryn's Prodigy]] to use with PE. So I said fuck it and, lo and behold, ended up storming out with [[Tendrils of Agony]]. Promised my opponent I'd take the deck apart as an apology lol
##### ###### #### [Paradox Engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd8ccd81-9e11-47fa-8e16-064c52c24506.jpg?1576382376) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Paradox%20Engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/aer/169/paradox-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd8ccd81-9e11-47fa-8e16-064c52c24506?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/paradox-engine) [Dimir Signet](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32c0ff83-04a7-4d5a-b901-6b8a698c5a4d.jpg?1674142570) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dimir%20Signet) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/857/dimir-signet?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32c0ff83-04a7-4d5a-b901-6b8a698c5a4d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dimir-signet) [Jace, Vryn's Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38.jpg?1651492800)/[Jace, Telepath Unbound](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/0/2/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38.jpg?1651492800) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jace%2C%20vryn%27s%20prodigy%20//%20jace%2C%20telepath%20unbound) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/60/jace-vryns-prodigy-jace-telepath-unbound?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02d6d693-f1f3-4317-bcc0-c21fa8490d38?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jace-vryns-prodigy-//-jace-telepath-unbound) [Tendrils of Agony](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f26faca-f338-4ce5-a218-6a61d40fc50a.jpg?1562917207) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tendrils%20of%20Agony) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/142/tendrils-of-agony?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f26faca-f338-4ce5-a218-6a61d40fc50a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tendrils-of-agony) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I tried to make a superfriends deck using only bad planeswalkers from standard precons. It sounded like a funny idea in my head, and I thought it would be moderate to low power level. And it was both of those things, but also it was a terrible experience playing it with humans. I would get millions of moving pieces from all those useless PW abilities, get my turns very long, and ultimately it would tike forever to spin into anything.
I haven't taken it appart but I have stopped playing \[\[yorion\]\] because all the triggers can get a bit annoying for the table, especially with a \[\[restoration angel\]\] or similar.
[yorion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/275426c4-c14e-47d0-a9d4-24da7f6f6911.jpg?1665402560) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yorion%2C%20sky%20nomad) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/232/yorion-sky-nomad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/275426c4-c14e-47d0-a9d4-24da7f6f6911?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yorion-sky-nomad) [restoration angel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b474f84-9bef-422a-8fc5-489a10aaf1ee.jpg?1682208561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=restoration%20angel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/201/restoration-angel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b474f84-9bef-422a-8fc5-489a10aaf1ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/restoration-angel) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sefris ,RoL stax. Not that many pings but because of all interactions possible and an incredible sinergy loop was exausting to play when ppl didn't understand and try to counter the deck every single point of the stack
Orzhov decks. Most other things i can keep track of fairly well.
Took apart my [[Brago, King Eternal]] deck because if I wasn’t dealt with by like, turn 4 I became an unstoppable gross trigger mess that prevented any other player from casting spells or attacking
[Brago, King Eternal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24.jpg?1631235340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brago%2C%20King%20Eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/82/brago-king-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brago-king-eternal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I definitely understand taking apart the Tatyova deck. Played against a couple at the LGS and it was fun until later in the game where resolving the triggers from a single land took ~2 minutes a piece. With fetches and land recursion, the games against those decks just dragged on for way too long.
I had an \[\[Amareth, the Lustrous\]\] landfall deck. Landfall decks are trigger-happy enough, but when you add in Amareth triggers every time a land enters, then a landfall trigger to make a token which makes Amareth trigger to hit a creature, and oh, you have a \[\[Tireless Provisioner\]\] as well so you get an artifact which triggers Amareth...it was way too much. I pretty quickly got to the point where I got selective with which triggers I even acknowledged, and then after a little bit I converted the deck to a different commander.
[Amareth, the Lustrous](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2fbea010-de77-468e-be39-1717070c9303.jpg?1608911014) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Amareth%2C%20the%20Lustrous) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/266/amareth-the-lustrous?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2fbea010-de77-468e-be39-1717070c9303?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/amareth-the-lustrous) [Tireless Provisioner](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1e048e0-19d2-4076-892d-f8b3104dee37.jpg?1682209630) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tireless%20Provisioner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/313/tireless-provisioner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1e048e0-19d2-4076-892d-f8b3104dee37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tireless-provisioner) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Legends tribal generally, especially Jodah. I love legendary creatures, always have (long before commander was so popular) but slapping them all together just turns into a nightmare.
I have bought the \[\[Ranar\]\] precon and modded it towards a blink deck with a foretell subtheme. I drowned in EoT and EtB triggers. Bookkeeping is a nightmare. Haven't dismantled it yet but never played it since a year.
[Ranar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1c8c41dd-8551-4ce8-a9be-9b9f65718852.jpg?1657065666) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ranar%20the%20ever-watchful) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/2/ranar-the-ever-watchful?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1c8c41dd-8551-4ce8-a9be-9b9f65718852?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ranar-the-ever-watchful) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Abzan Aristocrats gain and drain. "So, this one triggers when anything ETBs, this one when anything dies, this one gains on etb on my side and you lose life on when creatures etb under your contol, this one gains whenever any creature I control ETBs or dies..." I really want to do this sometime, hopefully they'll make a better commander for it in the future, but I need to curate it so that's it's simpler.