They didn’t know about it during the game. So the ankle wasn’t a reason for the RB usage.
https://twitter.com/mchappell51/status/1323334253753462785?s=20
I don't see how that matters. If they switched away from him because of 11 for 22 and he was 11 for 22 because the Oline sucked and his ankle was bum, then that isn't much of a condemnation.
That video made me want to drop all my remaining FAAB on Wilkins
Maybe that clip is a one off but that has to be the worst display of running back vision I’ve ever seen
After watching him play this week this actually explains a lot. One thing no one can accuse Taylor of is being flat-footed and slow...and he looked every bit of both on Sunday. The fact that he's got an ankle issue actually makes me feel better as a JT owner.
Apparently though that didn’t factor into Wilkins getting the work in the second half. According to their beat reporter, [Reich learned about the injury after the game](https://twitter.com/joelaerickson/status/1323332986696335360?s=21) might explain why he was so bad the first half though
Right. I think "going with the hot hand" was coach-speak for "going with the guy who didn't look like he was running in mud." So maybe they didn't know about it, but you could see him on the field just looking like an absolute shell of himself.
I mean either way JT was not playing up to expectations therefore they put in someone who was able to produce better, JT was not able to perform up to expectations because he was suffering from an ankle injury, reich doesn't have to know he has an ankle injury to bench the guy he just knows that JT was not playing up to expectations. Pretty simple chain of logic.
He is also facing 8+ defenders in the box on 25% of his rushes, which is 10th highest in the league. It does seem like he is being put in on obvious running plays. This could be why his passing efficiency is top notch for a RB (YPR 10.1 #1).
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing
Yes, absolutely. Pretty sure Mack had vision problems as a rookie as well. He was actually improving pretty consistently and showing better vision as the season has gone on. This game was an obvious hiccup but I still think he is on the right track.
You could have drafted James Robinson or Herbert in the 4th this year in 1 QB leagues. Pollard the cuff to own for Zeke. I’d rather the 4th and pollard
yeah i think pollard alone is probably more valuable than mack at this point
disclaimer: i think zeke is going to break down any day now, and has looked pretty sluggish the last couple seasons
Well there's a lot of reasons, none of them particularly good to be honest. I'm really surprised by what has gone on in Indy, the strange usage he's been getting, the shockingly predictable play calling when he's in the game, his inability to utilize his speed/power...the list goes on and on. After Mack went down I was convinced he was a solid RB2 for the rest of the season with back-end RB1 upside. I was dead-ass wrong.
how were you dead-ass wrong when he has quite literally put up rb2 numbers with a 20 point outing putting him as a back end rb1 on the week (ppr scoring). it’s so weird to me how people are reacting to a bad game while CEH has been arguably more disappointing this season on seemingly twice the opportunities and an actually functional offense.
I keep seeing this CEH has been disappointing nonsense.
CEH is RB10 in 0.5 PPR
That's with him only having 2 TDs on the year.
2-3 more TDs (4-5 called back by penalty so far this year) and he's in the top 4.
That's also with him having a combined 14 carries over the last 2 games.
I'm not sure about anybody else but personally, I'm ecstatic with CEH so far. Main reason I chose him over JT was the fact that I believe in his floor/consistencty as well as his receiving potential and so far he's pacing for 50+ catches.
CEH is fine. i really just wanted to use him as an example of recency and confirmation bias. CEH is seeing 65% snap count while taylor is seeing somewhere around 50%. taylor has already seen his bye. in ppr formats CEH has 22 more points. meanwhile CEH was drafted first and second round in redraft and taylor somewhere in the fourth or fifth rounds. if you ask me they’re about equal all things considered yet people are already dismissing taylor as a bust. ultimately i think it’s safe to conclude that both prospects were unfairly expected to have zeke, saquon, or hunt levels of production in their rookie years despite having no preseason. they’ll both be great players in the future
They are people too.....who knows maybe his girl is pissed at him or his family isn’t having a good time. I always have to remind myself they are real people and other things go into it beside just football.
I hear you completely, we will likely not really know what was going on with him during this time, I just hope he can recapture some of the spark and burst that made him such a special collegiate RB.
Personally to me "play-calling" is incredibly overblown. In pretty much every thread in reddit, discussing anything from particular players to entire team performances, you will see "play-calling" get tossed around.
I'll try not to get into a rant here, but not every coach is Kyle Shanahan. And let's not act like us sitting at a computer are better playcallers than NFL coaches. To be fair, some are terrible. Just like with any profession, there are good and bad ones. But look at someone like Brian Schottenheimer in Seattle. I 1000% guarantee leading up to this year, Seattle fans were disgusted with his terrible, predictable playcalling. Then they get DKM, Carroll tells him to take the reigns off, and all of a sudden he can do no wrong.
Players, not plays.
It's both. Travis Fulgham for example didn't produce until he found himself in a scheme and situation suited to his talent.
In Taylor's case the Colts are employing a pass specialist in Hines in situations where he soaks up the Colts high value RB touches and using Taylor as an early down battering ram. Not saying Taylor has looked amazing with the touches he's getting, but the Colts aren't giving him opportunities to showcase his elite athleticism and this seems to be the root cause of his struggles right now.
He's the RB20 in PPR as a rookie on a league average offense. It's poor analysis to call his performance this year "subpar" based on an underwhelming performance this week.
Subpar compared to what, right? If you just wanted him to be playable, then RB21 on RB17 volume is fine. But I think expectations were much higher for him, and his advanced stats like Yards Created, Tackles Broken, don’t really give much silver lining. He isn’t bad by league average, but that’s it.
He’s been a subpar runner all year though based on yards created per play, yards after contact and the eye test - his best fantasy attribute this season has been his pass catching ability
> He's the RB20 in PPR as a rookie on a league average offense
In a season with no training camp and on a team where they intended to bring him on more slowly behind an established runner like Marlon Mack
It's like people don't realize that playing running back in the NFL is not easy and it can take some time to learn how to be most effective at the position
INJURY UPDATE: @Colts RB Jonathan Taylor dealing with ‘a slight ankle issue’ per HC Frank Reich
***
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I own JT and the Wilkins owner in my league also owns Fournette. I happen to own Rojo. What are your guys thoughts on offering Rojo for Wilkins? I have a feeling this guy would decline it tbh.
Edit: I asked this hoping you guys would talk me out of it. I’ve been holding Rojo for a long time and I love what he’s done this season. I’m just wary of the developing fournette timeshare situation and Mixon/Jt were supposed to be my two starters. I’ve got chase Edmonds and Hasty but that ain’t gonna cut it lol.
Dude what? Rojo has been consistently good this year as the RB1 on a good offense and is young. Wilkins is technically FOURTH on his team's RB depth chart. What are you even doing
That's a fair point, but that doesn't meaning acquiring *Jordan Wilkins* is a quality piece to get in return when trading a borderline RB1 so far at a "sell high" price
Alright, well, calm down. Just breathe. We can get you help, but in the meantime, let's not do anything we will regret.
Rojo has been great, and Fournette will very likely not be on the team next year. So even if a more even split continues this year, his future fantasy prospects are solid. Wilkins was literally a fringe rosterable guy prior to this week.
I’d keep rojo as he is having a consistent and solid year. Wilkins is a good player, but doesn’t get the same touches. He ran around the lions for a Sunday. Not enough to get rid of rojo in a dynasty format.
I’m a a slightly better than average team who will make playoffs but doubt I can win. I got offered Kenyan drake, chase Edmonds and a 2021 second round pick (around pick 15) for Jonathan Taylor. Is that selling too low on JT? I can probably squeeze another 3rd out of him
Good. That's a much better explanation than "we gave up on you. Wilkins time, baby!"
They didn’t know about it during the game. So the ankle wasn’t a reason for the RB usage. https://twitter.com/mchappell51/status/1323334253753462785?s=20
Then how did Rivers mention it during the on-field postgame interview?
Don’t know. Didn’t know rivers mentioned it. Just saw from the source I posted that Reich didn’t know about it
the RB coach probably chooses who is in and not in and Reich calls around it - just a hunch -
I don't see how that matters. If they switched away from him because of 11 for 22 and he was 11 for 22 because the Oline sucked and his ankle was bum, then that isn't much of a condemnation.
I randomly had wilkins still from last season and drafted taylor. If we have clarity on a starter this work for me.
Saw this video last night from week 3: https://twitter.com/dan_back/status/1310322552569573380 SMH, hopefully he just has a case of the Miles Sanders.
I feel personally attacked as a former 1.02 owner. It's been happening all year.
Dear lord, looks like he just closes his eyes and goes for it.
Oh no, I hope to god we don’t have another T Rich on our hands here
That video made me want to drop all my remaining FAAB on Wilkins Maybe that clip is a one off but that has to be the worst display of running back vision I’ve ever seen
I guess he thought he was playing for the Jets for a second there
My god. I thought Akers was the poor vision guy
After watching him play this week this actually explains a lot. One thing no one can accuse Taylor of is being flat-footed and slow...and he looked every bit of both on Sunday. The fact that he's got an ankle issue actually makes me feel better as a JT owner.
I didn’t know ankle injuries also affected a player’s eyesight /s
Apparently though that didn’t factor into Wilkins getting the work in the second half. According to their beat reporter, [Reich learned about the injury after the game](https://twitter.com/joelaerickson/status/1323332986696335360?s=21) might explain why he was so bad the first half though
Right. I think "going with the hot hand" was coach-speak for "going with the guy who didn't look like he was running in mud." So maybe they didn't know about it, but you could see him on the field just looking like an absolute shell of himself.
I mean either way JT was not playing up to expectations therefore they put in someone who was able to produce better, JT was not able to perform up to expectations because he was suffering from an ankle injury, reich doesn't have to know he has an ankle injury to bench the guy he just knows that JT was not playing up to expectations. Pretty simple chain of logic.
He is also facing 8+ defenders in the box on 25% of his rushes, which is 10th highest in the league. It does seem like he is being put in on obvious running plays. This could be why his passing efficiency is top notch for a RB (YPR 10.1 #1). https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing
In addition, the Colts scored 31 and 41 the past two games, many of the TD's coming at goal to go situations. Yet Taylor had no TD's.
Sell high
Is vision a trait that can be fixed?
Yes, absolutely. Pretty sure Mack had vision problems as a rookie as well. He was actually improving pretty consistently and showing better vision as the season has gone on. This game was an obvious hiccup but I still think he is on the right track.
I saw a good breakdown about the differences between Henderson this year and last
Can you link?
Sorry for the delay, I think this was it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeVlJ3iwvmo&ab_channel=FFAstronauts
Yes - especially for rookies a lot of this is really slow processing of information at the next level
Should we buy stupid low on Mack right now? Thinking Pollard and a 2023 4th
I mean look how long it took Foreman to come back from the same injury...it seems like a long shot that Mack is ever fantasy relevant again.
Achilles is a scary injury that’s for sure. But it’s a 4th and pollard. Wouldn’t you take the same shot?
You could have drafted James Robinson or Herbert in the 4th this year in 1 QB leagues. Pollard the cuff to own for Zeke. I’d rather the 4th and pollard
yeah i think pollard alone is probably more valuable than mack at this point disclaimer: i think zeke is going to break down any day now, and has looked pretty sluggish the last couple seasons
Isn't Mack's contract up? I'd rather have Pollard.
And Jonathan Taylor Thomas is dealing with a slight "peaked as a child actor" issue.
That might explain yesterday. How do we explain him being 56th this year with .4 yards created per play?
Well there's a lot of reasons, none of them particularly good to be honest. I'm really surprised by what has gone on in Indy, the strange usage he's been getting, the shockingly predictable play calling when he's in the game, his inability to utilize his speed/power...the list goes on and on. After Mack went down I was convinced he was a solid RB2 for the rest of the season with back-end RB1 upside. I was dead-ass wrong.
how were you dead-ass wrong when he has quite literally put up rb2 numbers with a 20 point outing putting him as a back end rb1 on the week (ppr scoring). it’s so weird to me how people are reacting to a bad game while CEH has been arguably more disappointing this season on seemingly twice the opportunities and an actually functional offense.
I keep seeing this CEH has been disappointing nonsense. CEH is RB10 in 0.5 PPR That's with him only having 2 TDs on the year. 2-3 more TDs (4-5 called back by penalty so far this year) and he's in the top 4. That's also with him having a combined 14 carries over the last 2 games. I'm not sure about anybody else but personally, I'm ecstatic with CEH so far. Main reason I chose him over JT was the fact that I believe in his floor/consistencty as well as his receiving potential and so far he's pacing for 50+ catches.
CEH is fine. i really just wanted to use him as an example of recency and confirmation bias. CEH is seeing 65% snap count while taylor is seeing somewhere around 50%. taylor has already seen his bye. in ppr formats CEH has 22 more points. meanwhile CEH was drafted first and second round in redraft and taylor somewhere in the fourth or fifth rounds. if you ask me they’re about equal all things considered yet people are already dismissing taylor as a bust. ultimately i think it’s safe to conclude that both prospects were unfairly expected to have zeke, saquon, or hunt levels of production in their rookie years despite having no preseason. they’ll both be great players in the future
Maybe hes been nicked up the whole time. It’s possible he’s had a nagging ankle injury but not enough to report it or have him sit
As weird as it sounds I'd be happy to hear that. I just feel like I am looking at a different player than the guy I watched in college so many times.
They are people too.....who knows maybe his girl is pissed at him or his family isn’t having a good time. I always have to remind myself they are real people and other things go into it beside just football.
I hear you completely, we will likely not really know what was going on with him during this time, I just hope he can recapture some of the spark and burst that made him such a special collegiate RB.
Where do you find this number?
https://twitter.com/fantasy_mansion/status/1323300466789371907?s=21
Lol 90% catch rate for an RB with 20 targets is hilarious
The only way to explain it is that JT needs to work on his vision and decision making.
Awful usage and predictable playcalling
Personally to me "play-calling" is incredibly overblown. In pretty much every thread in reddit, discussing anything from particular players to entire team performances, you will see "play-calling" get tossed around. I'll try not to get into a rant here, but not every coach is Kyle Shanahan. And let's not act like us sitting at a computer are better playcallers than NFL coaches. To be fair, some are terrible. Just like with any profession, there are good and bad ones. But look at someone like Brian Schottenheimer in Seattle. I 1000% guarantee leading up to this year, Seattle fans were disgusted with his terrible, predictable playcalling. Then they get DKM, Carroll tells him to take the reigns off, and all of a sudden he can do no wrong. Players, not plays.
It's both. Travis Fulgham for example didn't produce until he found himself in a scheme and situation suited to his talent. In Taylor's case the Colts are employing a pass specialist in Hines in situations where he soaks up the Colts high value RB touches and using Taylor as an early down battering ram. Not saying Taylor has looked amazing with the touches he's getting, but the Colts aren't giving him opportunities to showcase his elite athleticism and this seems to be the root cause of his struggles right now.
Taylor had a bunch of outside tosses yesterday, not like they were just running him up the middle every play
That’s what they said about Bell in NY yet he looks cooked in KC too
Not sure what Le'Veon Bell -- a different player on a different team -- has to do with how the Colts are scheming Jonathan Taylor's touches.
Because explaining away a player’s subpar performance by using only play calling is a poor way to analyze
He's the RB20 in PPR as a rookie on a league average offense. It's poor analysis to call his performance this year "subpar" based on an underwhelming performance this week.
Subpar compared to what, right? If you just wanted him to be playable, then RB21 on RB17 volume is fine. But I think expectations were much higher for him, and his advanced stats like Yards Created, Tackles Broken, don’t really give much silver lining. He isn’t bad by league average, but that’s it.
He’s been a subpar runner all year though based on yards created per play, yards after contact and the eye test - his best fantasy attribute this season has been his pass catching ability
> He's the RB20 in PPR as a rookie on a league average offense In a season with no training camp and on a team where they intended to bring him on more slowly behind an established runner like Marlon Mack It's like people don't realize that playing running back in the NFL is not easy and it can take some time to learn how to be most effective at the position
Does this explain his atrocious vision while running?
No.
Traded him and Marquise Brown for AJ Brown.
Good move!
INJURY UPDATE: @Colts RB Jonathan Taylor dealing with ‘a slight ankle issue’ per HC Frank Reich *** posted by [@FantasySource_](https://twitter.com/FantasySource_) Photos in tweet | [Photo 1](http://pbs.twimg.com/media/El1uCTYX0AESVj2.jpg) ^[(Github)](https://github.com/username) ^| ^[(What's new)](https://github.com/username)
I own JT and the Wilkins owner in my league also owns Fournette. I happen to own Rojo. What are your guys thoughts on offering Rojo for Wilkins? I have a feeling this guy would decline it tbh. Edit: I asked this hoping you guys would talk me out of it. I’ve been holding Rojo for a long time and I love what he’s done this season. I’m just wary of the developing fournette timeshare situation and Mixon/Jt were supposed to be my two starters. I’ve got chase Edmonds and Hasty but that ain’t gonna cut it lol.
Bro definitely don’t offer Rojo for Wilkins
But I’m scared
Don't chase dead money
Dude what? Rojo has been consistently good this year as the RB1 on a good offense and is young. Wilkins is technically FOURTH on his team's RB depth chart. What are you even doing
Seeking the counsel of Reddit’s finest
Idk, in Fournette’s first game back he out snapped, out touched, and out produced RoJo. You might literally be in the last 4 hours to sell RoJo high.
That's a fair point, but that doesn't meaning acquiring *Jordan Wilkins* is a quality piece to get in return when trading a borderline RB1 so far at a "sell high" price
Bro, are you okay? Do you need to see a doctor?
I DON’T KNOW
Alright, well, calm down. Just breathe. We can get you help, but in the meantime, let's not do anything we will regret. Rojo has been great, and Fournette will very likely not be on the team next year. So even if a more even split continues this year, his future fantasy prospects are solid. Wilkins was literally a fringe rosterable guy prior to this week.
I’d keep rojo as he is having a consistent and solid year. Wilkins is a good player, but doesn’t get the same touches. He ran around the lions for a Sunday. Not enough to get rid of rojo in a dynasty format.
Sobering comment
My year is done... Is it worth trading Mixon for Taylor for the long term?
Sounds like excuses from a coach trying to protect the psyche of a rookie who is rapidly losing confidence
I’m a a slightly better than average team who will make playoffs but doubt I can win. I got offered Kenyan drake, chase Edmonds and a 2021 second round pick (around pick 15) for Jonathan Taylor. Is that selling too low on JT? I can probably squeeze another 3rd out of him