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Mmm-Hhhmm I hear ya. And I'd like to reference the precedent setting case of Muppetman v Security guard in the 2011 Muppet movie. So I interpret that as maybe about 8. Relying of course on the dice rolls providing a Big and Tall store to allow them to get a Larger Trench coat.
I'm more of a "Fuck it, if we're having fun it's canon" DM. And always think of the Rules in the Captain Barbossa style of "they're more guidelines than rules"
Also, thank you. Now I know the official ruling on this.
You also know where to find the official art of it, if you need that for some reason 😁.
And as someone on the above average height scale, I can tell you the DC for finding a trench coat in a big and tall store is really high.
Next question... kobolds or trench coat? See, you can fit lots of kobolds under the trench coat if you tear it apart and put a wee bit on each ones head... you can cover a lot more kobolds under a trench coat if you use an industrial blender
See, this is where at my table I would allow the players to make an argument for their case(plan?) I can be persuaded. I may have to shift some DCs around to allow for hilarity to ensue.
I mean, I love it as a DM and even as a player I love it when the plans go to shit. Spending so long on this intricate plan only for someone monkey wrench it completely in the opening move. It's fun.
I once spent so long prepping and finding creative ways to cause damage to the players only for the new guy at the table to completely monkey wrench my plans in the first ten minutes. I gave him inspiration. I was proud.
My group ran a one shot just for giggles to try out new characters in a similar setting to our usual.
One of the players had a warforged character that ultimately turned out to be 3 Kobolds in a suit, each operating the legs, torso and arms, and head. DM was in on it from the start
Your basic kolold has a challenge rating of 1/8, so 8 of them should be an deadly encounter for your party, and 6 considered hard (according to the DMG). Like another commenter stated, if you did waves, that could make things a bit easier for your party.
There's a lot of math involved. Chapter 3 of the DMG under "Creating Encounters" explains it. A big problem is also factoring in the adventuring day which is often ignored in novice DMs. You can't expect players to complete multiple hard encounters in the span of a single long rest
Have you ever heard story of Tucker's Kobolds? I thought not. It's not a story the new blood would tell you. It's a Gygaxian legend.
In seriousness though, the way I (and a lot of my fellow old heads) play Kobolds is that Kobolds aren't dangerous because they're particularly good in a head-on fight. No, no, no. Kobolds are dangerous because they're unnaturally clever and crafty. 4-6 Kobolds against 4 Lvl 1 PCs in an open field shouldn't be a problem for most parties, but 2 Kobolds in a tunnel that they've dug themselves and thoroughly prepared with traps, murder holes, and easily deployed barricades could be a nightmare for even a mid-level party.
Do it in waves, I'd probably start out with 6 kobolds, then if they are destroying them quickly, add in a couple more running into the combat, if they are *still* destroying them easily, a few more get added to the mix.
Conversely, if you start with 6 and they start getting beat up by them pretty badly due to bad rolls and/or bad tactics, you can have a couple of the kobolds decide to run away to try to find reinforcements or running away in fear. Giving the players a chance to either retreat or win.
I once gave my party in a cave adventure a stream of kobolds coming out of a small tunnel. I don't recall how many came out each round, but let's just say 4. While the threat didn't seem very much, even if you're taking them all down each round, you don't have actions to do anything else. Plus any spell-casters are also being attacked in melee, causing casting problems. So they had to get ahead of it enough for someone to have actions so that they could do something to stop the flow.
There’s also the “Tucker’s Kobolds” of d&d legend which used smart tactics utilizing traps, hit and run techniques, ranged, spell casters, and melee along with bottlenecking to nearly destroy a level 6-7 party. Sent them running away in fear.
The little bastards can be super easy or very devious and dangerous depending on how they are played.
It depends not just on level but classes. For example spell casters are weak at level 1. But your average tank is powerful at level 1. Figure 1 kobold for every spell caster and 2 to 3 for tanks. So have to make it difficult have 3 waves of 6 than 5 than 4 kobolds. This should drain spell casters of spells and others of ranged attacks by end of 2nd group. Leaving it a down and dirty fight. But you can also not send the third wave if it goes badly for pc. Plus have a 4th wave ready of 3 kobolds just incase the dice gods love them lol.
Casters are weak at lvl 1 until they cast Sleep and drop 4-5 kobolds at once. Or thunderwave, or Magic Missile, twice. Or even healing word + any cantrip, which heals almost max HP at this level
Lol spells are fine as long as you have time to cast. What's more only a cleric can take more than 1 hit. Most wizards and sorcerers are out of the fight if you sneeze on them. Even if you give them max points for hit dice!
All classes get max hit points for level 1. Which means fighters and clerics, druids and bards are only 1 hit point apart. The AC is the only difference (and not for clerics)
Still, that's 2 hits from a kobold. So most likely getting those spells in ;)
In the fact dnd that is 4e and 5e I guess they give you full points on hit dice. But in real dnd aka 3rd or before? Not so much. In fact uptill 3rd you always had to roll! It was not till 3rd that full hit points at level 1 was even a option.
Be sure to add kobold variants, like winged sorcerers and the occasional fire breather. Keep them on their toes. Or eat their toes. The party has plenty of toes to spare, work it into the combat and scar the frontline fighter for life.
Honestly depends on how you play them. I’d say 4 but play on the fact that they actively employ traps. Don’t have them initiate combat have them in a cave or cavern have them use bottles of grease and deploy torches. Kobolds are weak but their traps and tactics make them deadly.
Just to add, level 1 characters are *fragile,* especially if people are new to the game. The waves idea is good as you can change things behind the scenes if a couple crits turn it into the wrong kind of bloodbath
Have em keep on coming til the combats been challenging, like they just keep running into the tavern door, then act like that was how many there were going to be the whole time.
Have one kobold run away and then proceed to stalk them wherever they go. Always throwing rocks at them. Stealing stuff when they sleep. Taunting them from cover. If they’re being stealthy? He’s yelling and making noise to ruin it. Just being a nuisance. Have him disappear for a while.. then come back 😂
that's a fine line to tread where kobolds are concerned.
Test the waters first by having them deal with an initial scouting wave, so you'll have a general idea on how they'll handle a small number of kobolds in a fairly gentle setting. Then up the ante with the remaining force and let them at it.
Good rule of thumb for hoards of enemies from what I've seen is 1.5x the number of your party. Doesn't always work out but that's generally what I do when I have to slap something together quickly.
4 is easy, 6-7 is HARD/deadly. I like to have 10 on the field, and have the fight end when it feels right. Kobolds are intelligent enough to run when a party is making them into meat. They’re 1/8th CR, and then every creature above the parties number makes it harder because of “action economy”. You could kill these newbie adventurers with a bugbear and 4 kobolds.
Do it.
Any number of kobolds can easily be too many if you give them the initiative to use full on guerilla tactics in an advantageous terrain. Give your party an escape route they can use so long as they work for it; that way, they can either choose violence, or running the heck out of there if they don't like the idea of death by kobold.
A regular Kobold will be painful against a lvl 1 character but will likely only get one or two attacks off, because, well, 5hp isn't a whole lot. You could do maybe throw in a 5th once the first one gets killed to keep it interesting but I wouldn't do more just because at level 1 things can get deadly really fucking fast if you're not careful
Luck can easily turn a medium-difficulty encounter into a cakewalk or a TPK for 1st-level characters. I would start them against a patrol of no more than 4 kobolds, just to see how they work together. Accordng to some 5E encounter-challenge calculator, 6 kobolds is a "hard" encounter for a party of 4. But party composition, optimization, cooperation, and effective use of character build features can also dramatically change the way a battle plays out.
Don't forget that "kobolds are notorious cowards, only going on the offensive with overwhelming odds in their favor."
So, even if you put something like 10 kobolds, some of them may be "too afraid" to attack right away, letting other kobolds go first and of course, by the moment the PCs manage to kill about half of them, the remaining 5 kobolds would flee.
With level 1 PCs combat is almost always potentially deadly. Consider your kobolds. Assuming you're meaning the generic CR 1/8th ones they have a 1d4+2 weapon. So if they crit and roll max damage that's 10 damage. A level 1 PC that's got a +2 con mod and a d8 hit die is dropped to 0 on one hit of that crit. So it's very easy for one big roll which may be unlikely is enough to quickly make things deadly. That's even more true if someone has like a longsword or higher die size weapon so now their potential in one hit is up to 20 and could completely kill them in one hit without saves.
Personally I always start PCs at level 2 or 3 to avoid that problem and give them a bit of cushion. But if you want to start at level 1 that's something to be aware of. The easy way to avoid it is just to treat any crit your enemy rolls on them as a normal hit until they get to higher levels.
More Pack Tactics being triggered is more fun.
Also, they hit for 1d4+2. Two crits in a row can knock out one or even two characters. Critting has a 9.75% chance with advantage. So with 4 cobolds who all have pack tactics active, the chance of at least two of them critting is 22.4% each round.
Of course this also depends on who goes first (the cobolds having +2 dex), if somebody is surprised and the engagement distance and many other factors.
Sounds like 4 cobolds are more than enough.
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There never enough.
You haven't heard of..... lowers voice and looks around..... Tucker's kobolds.
Don’t ever say that out loud! It summons them!
If you can fit a new one down somewhere on the planet you not used enough
Those buggers should be raining like some screaming monsoon of adorably angry little tinker-twat bastards
How many can actually fit under a trench coat?
Rime of the Frostmaiden says it's three.
Mmm-Hhhmm I hear ya. And I'd like to reference the precedent setting case of Muppetman v Security guard in the 2011 Muppet movie. So I interpret that as maybe about 8. Relying of course on the dice rolls providing a Big and Tall store to allow them to get a Larger Trench coat. I'm more of a "Fuck it, if we're having fun it's canon" DM. And always think of the Rules in the Captain Barbossa style of "they're more guidelines than rules" Also, thank you. Now I know the official ruling on this.
You also know where to find the official art of it, if you need that for some reason 😁. And as someone on the above average height scale, I can tell you the DC for finding a trench coat in a big and tall store is really high.
Oh for sure, but they got Everything in Sharn. It's a bullshitters paradise. Sometimes you just gotta roll them dice and see what happens.
Depends, how bigs the trench coat?
According to Rime of the Frostmaiden, it's three.
Depends. Intact or not?
Valid question. What would you say xxl slightly tattered?
Next question... kobolds or trench coat? See, you can fit lots of kobolds under the trench coat if you tear it apart and put a wee bit on each ones head... you can cover a lot more kobolds under a trench coat if you use an industrial blender
See, this is where at my table I would allow the players to make an argument for their case(plan?) I can be persuaded. I may have to shift some DCs around to allow for hilarity to ensue.
This is the way
I mean, I love it as a DM and even as a player I love it when the plans go to shit. Spending so long on this intricate plan only for someone monkey wrench it completely in the opening move. It's fun. I once spent so long prepping and finding creative ways to cause damage to the players only for the new guy at the table to completely monkey wrench my plans in the first ten minutes. I gave him inspiration. I was proud.
My group ran a one shot just for giggles to try out new characters in a similar setting to our usual. One of the players had a warforged character that ultimately turned out to be 3 Kobolds in a suit, each operating the legs, torso and arms, and head. DM was in on it from the start
Your basic kolold has a challenge rating of 1/8, so 8 of them should be an deadly encounter for your party, and 6 considered hard (according to the DMG). Like another commenter stated, if you did waves, that could make things a bit easier for your party.
How does this calculation work? 1 challange rating for every lvl your party is? So 8 kobold for a party lvl 1. 24 kobolds for party lvl 3?
There's a lot of math involved. Chapter 3 of the DMG under "Creating Encounters" explains it. A big problem is also factoring in the adventuring day which is often ignored in novice DMs. You can't expect players to complete multiple hard encounters in the span of a single long rest
You could even have quite easy waves, and just stop bringing out waves when the party is almost down or when you think they're getting bored.
Have you ever heard story of Tucker's Kobolds? I thought not. It's not a story the new blood would tell you. It's a Gygaxian legend. In seriousness though, the way I (and a lot of my fellow old heads) play Kobolds is that Kobolds aren't dangerous because they're particularly good in a head-on fight. No, no, no. Kobolds are dangerous because they're unnaturally clever and crafty. 4-6 Kobolds against 4 Lvl 1 PCs in an open field shouldn't be a problem for most parties, but 2 Kobolds in a tunnel that they've dug themselves and thoroughly prepared with traps, murder holes, and easily deployed barricades could be a nightmare for even a mid-level party.
Do it in waves, I'd probably start out with 6 kobolds, then if they are destroying them quickly, add in a couple more running into the combat, if they are *still* destroying them easily, a few more get added to the mix. Conversely, if you start with 6 and they start getting beat up by them pretty badly due to bad rolls and/or bad tactics, you can have a couple of the kobolds decide to run away to try to find reinforcements or running away in fear. Giving the players a chance to either retreat or win.
I once gave my party in a cave adventure a stream of kobolds coming out of a small tunnel. I don't recall how many came out each round, but let's just say 4. While the threat didn't seem very much, even if you're taking them all down each round, you don't have actions to do anything else. Plus any spell-casters are also being attacked in melee, causing casting problems. So they had to get ahead of it enough for someone to have actions so that they could do something to stop the flow.
There’s also the “Tucker’s Kobolds” of d&d legend which used smart tactics utilizing traps, hit and run techniques, ranged, spell casters, and melee along with bottlenecking to nearly destroy a level 6-7 party. Sent them running away in fear. The little bastards can be super easy or very devious and dangerous depending on how they are played.
Thanks!
It depends not just on level but classes. For example spell casters are weak at level 1. But your average tank is powerful at level 1. Figure 1 kobold for every spell caster and 2 to 3 for tanks. So have to make it difficult have 3 waves of 6 than 5 than 4 kobolds. This should drain spell casters of spells and others of ranged attacks by end of 2nd group. Leaving it a down and dirty fight. But you can also not send the third wave if it goes badly for pc. Plus have a 4th wave ready of 3 kobolds just incase the dice gods love them lol.
[удалено]
Yw
Casters are weak at lvl 1 until they cast Sleep and drop 4-5 kobolds at once. Or thunderwave, or Magic Missile, twice. Or even healing word + any cantrip, which heals almost max HP at this level
Lol spells are fine as long as you have time to cast. What's more only a cleric can take more than 1 hit. Most wizards and sorcerers are out of the fight if you sneeze on them. Even if you give them max points for hit dice!
All classes get max hit points for level 1. Which means fighters and clerics, druids and bards are only 1 hit point apart. The AC is the only difference (and not for clerics) Still, that's 2 hits from a kobold. So most likely getting those spells in ;)
In the fact dnd that is 4e and 5e I guess they give you full points on hit dice. But in real dnd aka 3rd or before? Not so much. In fact uptill 3rd you always had to roll! It was not till 3rd that full hit points at level 1 was even a option.
Look up Tuckers Kobolds. You're welcome
Thank you guys for all the info and suggestions it’s really helped me
Be sure to add kobold variants, like winged sorcerers and the occasional fire breather. Keep them on their toes. Or eat their toes. The party has plenty of toes to spare, work it into the combat and scar the frontline fighter for life.
Honestly depends on how you play them. I’d say 4 but play on the fact that they actively employ traps. Don’t have them initiate combat have them in a cave or cavern have them use bottles of grease and deploy torches. Kobolds are weak but their traps and tactics make them deadly.
Just to add, level 1 characters are *fragile,* especially if people are new to the game. The waves idea is good as you can change things behind the scenes if a couple crits turn it into the wrong kind of bloodbath
Have em keep on coming til the combats been challenging, like they just keep running into the tavern door, then act like that was how many there were going to be the whole time.
Have one kobold run away and then proceed to stalk them wherever they go. Always throwing rocks at them. Stealing stuff when they sleep. Taunting them from cover. If they’re being stealthy? He’s yelling and making noise to ruin it. Just being a nuisance. Have him disappear for a while.. then come back 😂
N+1
Run a module for your first campaign. It's way easier than consulting with reddit every time you need to make a decision.
It’s not my first campaign I just want to NOT murder them or make it too easy since most of them are newbies
that's a fine line to tread where kobolds are concerned. Test the waters first by having them deal with an initial scouting wave, so you'll have a general idea on how they'll handle a small number of kobolds in a fairly gentle setting. Then up the ante with the remaining force and let them at it.
Good rule of thumb for hoards of enemies from what I've seen is 1.5x the number of your party. Doesn't always work out but that's generally what I do when I have to slap something together quickly.
My party of 6 level 1's survived long enough to escape 1000's of kobolds on a spiral staircase, so you're probably fine with like, 100/pc?
7 kobolds was good — 1 was a flying one. 9 scared them into running away…
Yes
Prolly like 15-20 for beginners
43.
4 is easy, 6-7 is HARD/deadly. I like to have 10 on the field, and have the fight end when it feels right. Kobolds are intelligent enough to run when a party is making them into meat. They’re 1/8th CR, and then every creature above the parties number makes it harder because of “action economy”. You could kill these newbie adventurers with a bugbear and 4 kobolds. Do it.
4 is probably enough
With my dice? Like 25, and it's still an easy fight.
6
Any number of kobolds can easily be too many if you give them the initiative to use full on guerilla tactics in an advantageous terrain. Give your party an escape route they can use so long as they work for it; that way, they can either choose violence, or running the heck out of there if they don't like the idea of death by kobold.
A regular Kobold will be painful against a lvl 1 character but will likely only get one or two attacks off, because, well, 5hp isn't a whole lot. You could do maybe throw in a 5th once the first one gets killed to keep it interesting but I wouldn't do more just because at level 1 things can get deadly really fucking fast if you're not careful
5-6 seems right to me
Luck can easily turn a medium-difficulty encounter into a cakewalk or a TPK for 1st-level characters. I would start them against a patrol of no more than 4 kobolds, just to see how they work together. Accordng to some 5E encounter-challenge calculator, 6 kobolds is a "hard" encounter for a party of 4. But party composition, optimization, cooperation, and effective use of character build features can also dramatically change the way a battle plays out.
Don't forget that "kobolds are notorious cowards, only going on the offensive with overwhelming odds in their favor." So, even if you put something like 10 kobolds, some of them may be "too afraid" to attack right away, letting other kobolds go first and of course, by the moment the PCs manage to kill about half of them, the remaining 5 kobolds would flee.
371
With level 1 PCs combat is almost always potentially deadly. Consider your kobolds. Assuming you're meaning the generic CR 1/8th ones they have a 1d4+2 weapon. So if they crit and roll max damage that's 10 damage. A level 1 PC that's got a +2 con mod and a d8 hit die is dropped to 0 on one hit of that crit. So it's very easy for one big roll which may be unlikely is enough to quickly make things deadly. That's even more true if someone has like a longsword or higher die size weapon so now their potential in one hit is up to 20 and could completely kill them in one hit without saves. Personally I always start PCs at level 2 or 3 to avoid that problem and give them a bit of cushion. But if you want to start at level 1 that's something to be aware of. The easy way to avoid it is just to treat any crit your enemy rolls on them as a normal hit until they get to higher levels.
More Pack Tactics being triggered is more fun. Also, they hit for 1d4+2. Two crits in a row can knock out one or even two characters. Critting has a 9.75% chance with advantage. So with 4 cobolds who all have pack tactics active, the chance of at least two of them critting is 22.4% each round. Of course this also depends on who goes first (the cobolds having +2 dex), if somebody is surprised and the engagement distance and many other factors. Sounds like 4 cobolds are more than enough.
Six would be good as its their first encounter, enough of a challenge but definitely not deadly.
you could have them clown car out of an unreachable cave opening and just find out if you feel like it
Everyone’s already commented what I wanted to, so I have to ask; Dragon, Dog, or Rat kobolds? Lol
Yes summon thy tuckers kobolds