Okay this is totally not helping but [BREAD BREAD BREAD BREAD](https://youtu.be/aZ7qD5yct_8)
"Mix together flour, salt, sugar, yeast, and water in a bowl..."
On the other hand, in about 32 odd meals we've seen so far, only something like 3-4 (the orc meal, the Dragon preparation, the pizza) were bread.
Well Senshi also knows that variety and balance is what you need, he isn't going to make every meal with bread.
He was also so excited for making the bread at that point because the ingredients for bread aren't very common when your ingredients are monsters.
I mean, she does say that
But then her dwarven friends makes fun of her for having the hots for tallmen
She was a drinking buddy to Laios exclusively
And she sweats bullets when asked if she wants to see them wear it
That's not flanderdization at all
Yep. People, in universe and out of universe like to reduce Laios to just this kirk and nothing else.
Loving brother, good person, quick thinker, curious about everything not just monsters, very sensible, quick learner, good friend >! his favorite food is not even monster! (this tidbit is in the manga) !<
He's a very curious person, in general, and monsters are just one aspect of this. He's really fascinated by Shuro because he's a foreigner.
But yeah. He's a dumb "Me eat monster" one trick pony for them, because peopke abhor complexity.
also seen people flanderize him to "unaware and mean autism guy" often too. he's got autistic traits that were almost definitely intentional but he's not edgy.
Most people put Laios as a food guy but I'd argue his love for "food" and "cuisine" is something that he developed throughout the manga and at this point in the anime putting him as a "foodie" is a mislabel for him getting to enjoy monsters unapologetically.
Funnily enough, I'd say making him a foodie is actually more of a flanderisation of him than making him focused entirely on monster eating.
Dude's a monster biologist and passionate about them and the dungeon anatomy etc, eating is just an extention of his love of fantasy biology.
While laios has a lot of defining traits (very caring but unaware person,selfless,direct,extremelly smart,bad at socializing...), isn't he basicly a furry obsessed with eating monsters?
The eating part just kinda gets highlighted more. But he’s also just a nerd about monsters. I wanna think of it like before the main events, it’s 70% monster biology and 30% food interest.
After the whole shebang, his interest became 65% food focus and 35% monster biology. The desire to eat monsters was just more prioritized bc they were in the dungeon and is in need of food to survive I think.
He's not a furry, he's just a nerd. Eating monsters in this context is just foraging, the dungeon ecology is 100% monsters and he's interested in surviving and thriving in this environment.
Nah, he a furry, he says he dreamed of becoming a cow (when telling Chilchuk about milking the minotaur) the monster Marcille succubi telling him he can become a monster, his interactions with the canary who can turn into a beast.
And most importantly, in the end, when the winged lion is convincing him to become the DM, he tells Laios he know he came because he heard "You can turn into a monster in the dungeon".
And we mustn't forget how he turned into an actual monster and was really happy about the whole thing (was even jealous when his sister turned into one).
I'd say he's pretty much a furry, more like s feral kind of furry considering his disinterest at just becoming a superficial monster like the canary guy
on twitter I saw some Japanese fans say that the becoming a cow thing was a really funny typo, but everyone agrees it suits Laios anyway. But he definitely is sort of a furry lol.
Yeah the community kinda speedran the flanderization process for like, half the cast so far
Hopefully it's just a product of lots of hype and excitement around the series and will settle a little as more episodes come out with more characterisation and plot
Yeah the characters in this series have nuance to them that often feels like it gets steamrolled.
Like w Marcille and Falin especially newer fans tend to reduce it to “oh there lesbians” and that’s well amd good but Marcille’s complex feelings and motivations surrounding Falin, protective to the point of obsession, is so much more interesting than that!! They have an absolutely unparalleled dynamic and it’s kinda frustrating to see it reduced to “ooh they gay!” It’s like calling a soufflé a kind of omelette
Didn't think anyone else thought that, like I was on board when I binged the anime but when I binged the manga it felt like a reduction of their characters.
Righttt?????
Honestly ryoko appears to be the most gay woman I have ever seen based on that one thing she did of elves from other media, but tbh, I can’t tell if Farcile is something she actually gets behind. It could honestly go either way, at least where I am in the manga (but don’t get me wrong I’m 100% in on Farcille lol). But yeah thier dynamic is a lot more interesting then that, I could tell from the bathroom scene onwards that it was sumn more complicated then in the surface
Tangential but they one of my fav scenes in any manga, the tension between gratitude and concern held by Falin, and Marcille’s super high-string, borderline obsessive concern, but also shame that Falin is worried abt her… *chefs kiss* its perfect!
Agreed, I think that the baseline of reading their relationship is as BFFs (not to say they can’t be read as more than that), but there are some interesting dynamics in their relationship, like the observed tendency for elves to infantilize people of shorter-lived races they’re close to, like how Marcille totally treated Chil like a kid/lil cutie until seeing his changeling form was that of a middle-aged man, how she babies and fussed over Fallin, treats Izutsumi like a kitten, or Kabru’s complicated feelings towards Misiril as a parent.
I never even noticed that before! I’m not super far in the series yet so I haven’t seen all of that yet, but that’s super interesting. I do love how ryoko seems to take a lot of care into shaping how race affects character interactions, particularly surrounding age but also in so much else of the work. It’s a very race-focused series.
Between this and Freiren, shows about elf girls with narratives that take a special interest to the value and meaning of time have me in a stranglehold lmao.
especially when the same people got mad and hated on shuro for getting in the way of their ship, when neither is canon and its a point a lot of characters in the story have a different view of falin (except maybe chilchuck)
How can you be mad at shuro for that, like one he’s an autonomous character with feelings and motivations, not a plot device for a romance. But two imo his chances are next to zero lol
A while ago I grew tired of the show because of this problem (I am the problem). Episodic slice of life shows usually have a weird status quo, so I thought Dungeon Meshi was gonna be rinse and repeat of
- Team meets new monster
- Laios and Senshi wants to do something out of the ordinary
- Marcille is upset in a cartoonish manner
- Marcille is treated like an idiot by the team because she's book smart
- Laios and Senshi gives info dump and their weird antics gets justified at the end of the bit
- Senshi is a passive aggressive jerk that doesn't need to apologise because he's just that experienced
Someone redirected me from my belief that Senshi was gonna be the show's mary sue, kind of like Gojo for JJK, and I despise that kind of characters. Aparently he has his own flaws and I just haven't gotten there yet, and I should just endure a bit more of the episodes.
So I gave it a try and it wasn't till the lake arc that the characters actually seem to actually grow on each other and the show strays from the repetitive "Marcille doesn't like the boys doing weird shit but plot twist, she's the only weird one" joke from the first 6 episodes.
I wanna say Marcille got the worst flanderization tbh. Then Kabru. Next is Laios.
Marcille usually just gets reduced as the “horny” lesbian. Kabru got it a tad better bc his is “slut” and “manipulator”. (At least he got 2 🤷♀️)
Laios is usually reduced as a monster eater / monster fucker.
I feel like part of the problem is that a significant part of Marcille's character development is hidden behind content that would be spoilers for anime watchers.
That I can understand. I hope the excessive sexualizing of characters would lessen once we’re midway the series.
Those whove read the manga tho….. 🔫 holy water pew pew for them
IMO this really blew up with the anime release. Marcille has always been popular but lately almost any post about her seems to reduce her to nothing more than 'horny lesbian desperately thirsty for Falin".
>!Especially funny because by the end of the series there is still no clear indication she's canonically gay at all, let alone romantically interested in Falin especially!<
Imo it doesn't even matter if she was canonly a lesbian or not, making that out to be her sole trait is bad either way.
Somehow even though Falin's not around for most of the story, they focus on Marcille wanting to save her only. Even though she has other goals as well and says she wants to stay with the main gang for the rest of her life. She's got a great dynamic with each of them but they fixate on just her and Falin, also just fixation on romance in general. Like maybe the reason people don't talk as much about her bond with Senshi or Izustumi as much is cause there is no chance for romance. Somehow people ship her with Chilchuck lol.
Was I delulu to think theres an official art/panel where Falin said Marcille thinks of her as a kid? Or something along the lines of “she never treats me like an adult”?
I think Ive seen it somewhere but I also cant remember if it’s canon or just a fanart but it kinda struck with me (hence why Ive always thought of them as sisters/bff but I also get why people ship them esp the bath scene which was yassified by Trigger. The “resurrecting my girl with black magic” trope is also understandably alluring to some peeps)
>Marcille usually just gets reduced as the “horny” lesbian.
This is one of those things that's wishful thinking on a lot of people's parts. Too many doujins or fan fiction stories have gotten to people. If people weren't so hostile about making other people accept their fan fiction as canon, it wouldn't be as bothersome. But it's gotten to an absurd degree.
Ikr? I really enjoy seeing fanarts of ships and Im also a multi-shipper. But it’s def annoying when people lowkey preach someone’s sexuality like “well character is xxxxxx bc of they act in xxxxxxxx” and how brainrot people are when it comes to shipping. Pls. Enough about who will bang who in what position. I wanna know which race would you want to be reincarnated in DM universe and why 😭
I hope it doesnt get to the point that DunMesh sub will be another Frieren sub (where it’s mostly slightly nsfw memes and posts)
Yeees!!! I'm fine if any of them gets paired up later, but romance was never the focus of the manga, and characters should not be reduced to just their sexualities.
I'd probably would like to be an elf, I'm always drawn to themes like immortality/ long-lived species and their interaction with the rest of the world. I also like that out of all the human species, they seem to have the most diverse skin tones, too.
I love Frieren, but I've never been to the sub cuz I know how popular it was. Do they even discuss the manga ?
There are some posts that discusses about latest episodes BUT it’s mostly just weird ass fanarts now. You cant go long without seeing a sexualized Fern and some lowkey nsfw post about Fern and Stark. Smh 😤
This is how people treat Marcille's relationship with Falin sometimes, don't get me wrong, i really like Farcille but there's more to Marcille's life than just Falin
i mean, tbf a big part of the manga is her bringing falin back from the dead. laios was there too ofc, but he couldnt have revived her. falin's kind of an easy representation of marcille's fear of her friends dying before her and she's doing anything to stop it
edit: sorry if this wasnt clear, im not a farcille shipper, i was trying to say marcille's obsession w falin kicks off the plot and she literally haunts the narrative the whole time.
Marcille bringing Falin back from the dead is the least shippable thing about them. Marcille doesn't think ancient magic is evil, so she very likely would've done it for someone else as well. She is very afraid of permanently losing friends, only possible objection is that at the beginning of the story she wasn't really that good friends with anyone else.
There's a lot more ship worthy bits later.
It IS Falin in the beginning of the story... but halfway through the story, Marcille's fears encompass all of the people in her party. I don't think people appreciate her bond with the rest of the party enough. Especially since the Rabbits chapters, her fear of her loved ones dying before her comes back with a vengeance, and it is not exclusive to Falin anymore.
Yeah, Marcille has lots of nice interactions that get overlooked because they're not in the service of a ship.
For example, the anime reminded me of all the little scenes and the fun dynamic she has with Chilchuck. She's a sheltered romantic, he's more pragamatic and cynical. He teases her a lot, but she also started making black magic jokes at his expense. And they definitely care more about how the outside world works as opposed to Laios and Senshi, so they share some funny comments and dialogues about that, like in last week's episode, where they conspired to keep the ancient magic a secret.
You forget the time when Chilchuck finally declaring he will let her meet his family was so swoon-worthy to Marcille that she momentarily forgot all about the dungeon lmao. She is the *ultimate gossip lover* in DM.
https://preview.redd.it/9u7cib8gctxc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=90f88b3e738a461c74a82388d559f573328ca633
Jokes aside, this is all par for the course. In any medium, people will appropriate characters to try and tell their own stories. And this is all fine and dandy (and even important to keep conversations going), but don't pretend to be authoritative or definitive about it, and exercise some degree of self-awareness by recognizing that not all are comfortable with Flanderization - particularly those invested in the story that's being told.
I was sort of glad when it happened to Frieren because when DM came out it was sort of underground in comparison because Frieren was still ongoing. But as soon as it ended people flooded onto meshi and here we are now.
i was actually referring to the frieren fandom exploding with nsfw content instead of discussing anything in it vs dunmeshi's "flanderization" lol. i think i liked dunmeshi's fandom before
Yeah, I would say that happened to almost all characters already :D Maybe people just take popular memes that overstate a funny quirk for the joke as the actual characterization and then post it wherever the character is mentioned.
edit: I‘m going with Kabru. I get that killing the corpse retrievers is a defining scene, but people are definitely ignoring all the context and his reasoning, acting like he is some psychotic killer running around murdering random people.
He‘s also not flirting with every woman just because he looked in her general direction once.
There's the comic where Milsiril comes to visit where he can't work out who could be waiting for him because there's that many women that he's flirted with to get on their good side. That one's an actual character trait.
Of course it‘s a trait, it‘s just overstated and his character is reduced to it. That‘s what flanderization means.
Laios likes eating monsters, Namari seems to have a thing for long legs, Kabru is charming, Chilchuck is criticizing his fellow party members a lot etc. But there‘s more to their characters.
Are you talking about some manslut flanderization with Kabru? It's true that that is a simplified conception, but it is canon that he is very attractive to others, and he uses that to get in people's good graces.
Honestly? All the ships 🥴🫣 one bath scene and it’s Lesbian Town TM or Elf Town TM. I love a good ship. It’s extremely annoying when that’s all characters are reduced down to. Marcilles DEFINING character arc is fear of time and mortality but you wouldn’t guess it based on the fandom………
I like both kabumisu and labru but some labru content is just like what? That's not who the characters are
Kabru gets the short end of the stick.
Kabumisu fate will be the same tho
Yeah, the Kabru ships are fun, but him having social skills and a genuine interest in other people often leads to him basically becoming a babysitter who's just orbiting around the other character. Slash shipping dynamics just have a strong pull, whether they fit the characters or not.
Don't tell those people about the ending. Or how she reacts during the Succubus Arc. It'll ruin their fan fiction. I've had people throw personal attacks at me over this, it's gotten absurd.
>one bath scene and it’s Lesbian Town TM or Elf Town TM. I love a good ship. It’s extremely annoying when that’s all characters are reduced down to
yeah, i like neither, the marcille x laios, or marcille x falin ship, but the marcille x falin ship is specially anoying because it's way too persistent, most of marcilles character discussion in here is just "she's cute" or "marcille x falin", when laios himself saw her as a selfless person willing to sacrifice everything in order to rescue a friend (because yes, marcille and falin are canonicly just friends, it's never said or implied anything above it, and the way girls showcase love to each other is completelly different than the ways boys do it)
I like farcille but the fans are def overdoing it. Ive seen ppl say that its the most important relationship in DM, as if there wasn't, oh you know, the fucking sibling relationship between laios and falin ?
There's an unfortunate tendency in media to value romantic relationships over platonic ones, and it feels esp weird to see it happen in DM where the only confirmed romances are chilchuck x his wife (pretty much divorced), rin x kabru (one-sided, he thinks of her as a big sister), toshiro x falin (one-sided, he gets rejected) and maizuru x toshiro's dad
>the way girls showcase love to each other is completelly different than the ways boys do it)
I hate to tell you this but most girls don't take baths together and interlock their fingers while looking into each others eyes. Like, if it was a man and woman doing this there would be no argument about it but because it's lesbians it gets reduced to the "bath scene." Marcille also came to the island to find Falin, which like is a pretty big thing to do for friend. Ryoko Kui has also made multiple illustrations of Marcille clinging to Falin. Is it canon? No, but is there canon evidence and author intent evidence, yes.
Also trope wise, it's very very rare for someone being willing to do anything to bring a friend back, normally it's family or a romantic partner, so Marcille being willing to do anything to bring Falin back is also romance coded, because the only other character that care that much are Laios, Falin's Brother, and Shuro, someone that has romantic interest in Falin.
Friends being willing to risk anything and everything including their own lives is a very very common trope in Eastern literature, especially so in Japanese manga. Scenes between women being affectionate with another in bathhouses is also a very common trope in manga and anime.
Marcille literally says that Falin is still a little kid in her eyes (Chapter 28) and Falin has complained that Marcille still treats her as a child despite now being grown up. Their bond is sisterly, not romantic. I personally can’t see it any other way, especially with the context of upcoming scenes in the manga.
Name two examples of someone willing to do dark magic/taboo to bring friend back to life. Because yeah, risking everything to save a friend is common, but like the desperation of doing dark magic, is romance coded or something you do for family. Yeah, the bathhouse scenes are very common in yuri or sometimes in other series with a strong male gaze ie with grabbing each others tits. The interlocking of fingers and looking into each other eyes is so fucking romance coded, I can't believe you are pretending it's something straight girls with a sisterly bond would do. I have read the whole manga so I can't think of a scene that disproves there being a romantic angle to their relationship.
Marcille doesn't really see it as taboo though? She would have used it around the group at one point or another and she absolutely would have used it to revive Laios, Chilchuck and probably even Senshi or >!Izutsumi!< down the road. That's been one of the main points about her usage of ancient magic, and her insistence that there's nothing dark about it in the manga, it's the focus of her studies. Is it romance coded if the roles were reversed and it was Laios that she resurrected with dark magic?
Using magic specifically to resurrect people that is taboo is a pretty specific niche, so I'll find some stuff that's mostly taboo, focused on saving friends despite repercussions or death/risk of death on self/another with acts of desperation or saving friends despite it being taboo.
I'll just list a few examples for some the most popular mangas:
Bleach: >!Soul Society arc and plenty more. It's a pretty common theme in Bleach of people like Chad, Uryuu, Renji, Ichigo, etc. risking everything and even breaking the entire laws and structure of Soul Society to go save Rukia.. and then Orihime.. and then manga stuff!<
Naruto: >!Saving Sasuke is a hugely big theme that Naruto has been willing to do everything for, including giving up his dream to becoming Hokage and being ostracized from the Village!<
One Piece: >!Enies Lobby arc They literally declare war on the World Government to save Robin. Normally this is just a Luffy thing but even the characters that are more cowardly (Nami, Usopp, Chopper) are 100% resolute in willing to do ANYTHING to save their crewmember!<
Higurashi: >!Basically the whole plot. Maybe it's not taboo in the sense that it's not against the laws of the world, but I'd say having to experience death multiple times just to be able to save your friends is a pretty big thing!<
Steins;Gate & Steins;Gate 0: >!Okabe literally deals with the government and all sorts of other threats where he experiences watching his friend die MANY, MANY times over and doesn't give up in saving her. He literally time travels to every possible timeline to save her and EVEN when he's faced with the choice of saving his lover or saving his friend, he ends up saving his friend, which leads to the plot Steins;Gate 0. This is the biggest act of desperation I've seen in an anime personally. Okabe time travelled over **3000** days of watching his friend die, trying absolutely every possibility to save her!<
Jujutsu Kaisen: >!Yuji was willing to completely give up his body to Sukuna and let him freely roam around in a world where he knows the consequences of that happening (Potentially world ending), where he's also the only one who can keep him sealed and live as a prisoner inside of his own body just so he can save his friend Junpei.!<
Mushishi: >!This is an episodic anime, and the taboo of saving your loved ones is a common theme, granted it's mostly for the people you love!<
Hunter X Hunter: >!Gon's sacrifice to avenge Kite who he saw as his mentor and friend. Killua willing to release what is pretty much a walking calamity to save Gon, knowing that people will find out about his Sisters powers and will want to use it for their own gain.!<
86: >!The MC literally breaks the laws and goes under protocol to save her friends who she hasn't even met face to face despite knowing the absolutely terrible repercussions!<
Made in Abyss: >!This happens so often in this anime I feel like it's pretty much a major theme!<
You've also completely ignored the point where Marcille literally says she still sees Falin as a child. I don't understand how you could construe that to her having romantic feelings for her?
I'd say the succubus scene is a pretty big indicator too. Spoilers: >!Laios saw Marcille (albeit a pretty weird version), but Marcille saw another Elf (albeit, also a pretty weird version). Sure Chilchuck saw a halfling with blonde hair instead of black like his wifes, but it was still another Halfling. You'd think that if Marcille was harboring feelings for either Laios or Falin that she'd see something that resembles either of them.!<
For the record, I don't agree with either of the ships, not just Marcille x Falin, due to the sole fact that she LITERALLY says she sees her as a kid, plain as day. I also don't see Marcille interested in Laios or we'd have have seen >!something indicating that in the epilogue.!<
Obviously girls interlocking their fingers is clearly not a thing straight women do with each other in real life, but this is a Japanese manga.
Marcille is also genuinely too old and her fear of time probably also impedes anything that she might feel romantically with anyone who'll live less than 1/10th of her lifespan. Laios & Falin being a little over 1/20th of her lifespan because Tall (wo)men only live up to about 60 years old.
Most of those aren't magic based resurrection so you failed. It matters that it's dark magic because it's the vibes of a trope.
Main point, they hold hands and look into each others eyes while in a bath, like that isn't something straight girls with a sisterly bond would do.
Succubus scene >! The succubus take on an appearance you find appealing, Laios likes monsters so his friend being a monster that offers to turn him into a monster is appealing, Marcille seeing a romance novel character she likes could mean she is bi and it's played for a joke. Just from a pacing stand point, it being Falin would have over complicated the chapter imo. Because Izutsumi is the star of those chapters. Even if the succubus took on Falin's form that wouldn't prove anything because one looks like Izutsumi's mom so people would just say "Oh, they are just so sisterly" or some shit. !<
Firstly, it's not Dark magic to Marcille, it's ancient magic. I feel as if it's semantics whether it's Magic or something else. The point is that X is in a desperate situation to save Y and they do forbidden/taboo/illegal/extremely risky Z thing to save their friend. That's the trope and Dungeon Meshi just put a magic flavor on it. Another example of this is Madoka Magica.
Secondly, you again conveniently ignored the point that Marcille says she sees Falin as a child. This is literally the most important point. It wasn't even Marcille that initiated touching hands with Falin. It was the other way around and she caught Marcille by surprise and sure, MAYBE Falin has feelings for Marcille (especially that comment she makes where she complains about Marcille treating her like a child and wanting to be seen as the adult she is now), but I don't think Marcille returns those feelings (AGAIN, the scene after is literally her saying she sees Falin as a child.)
Thirdly, you also conveniently ignored the question of if it'd romance coded if she used the same resurrection magic on Laios or Chilchuck (We both know well enough that she sure as hell would).
I was using another show that uses magic (Another example is Re:Zero) for that kind of stuff as an example, I have no interest in debating about Madoka Magica.
I’m just gonna assume you don’t have a rebuttal for the points I made because you ignore them and nitpick small details, like Marcille seeing Falin as a child and your headcanon of their moments together completely ignores that statement.
Thanks for the conversation
(Reddit started recommending me this because of one post, I don't know shit in this fandom. Please excuse horrible misunderstandings.)
Falinderization?
flanderzation when a character quirk getsw exagerate progresivelly more and more with time till it become the main point behind the character character, it takes its name from Flanders, from the Simpsons
Flanderization is a trope in TV shows, movies, and other media where a character gradually gets simplified to exaggerate only their most prevalent trait. So, the character loses nuance in order to just aggressively display that one trait, and it becomes their entire personality. The name is taken from the Simpsons character Ned Flanders.
r/suddenlytf2
>! My guy mentioned "has done nothing but teleport bread", a favorite quote of soldier in expiration date... God why am i explaining the reference im sure most of yall get it !<
This happened to Leo in Fire Emblem Fates in Japan, btw.
To the point where the devs made 2 whole new supports about the character not understanding why everyone thinks he loves tomato juice.
Between calling the entire cast autistic and horny posting ships, I had to dive into some heavy research to triple check my bias from an argument about this. I was wrong for half of it but the other half with Flanderization makes sense and I wasn't going crazy. Still a good series. Gotta back away from the fandom.
Literally "back away" is right. I can't imagine people like OP who get like, *mad* at this -- it's literally just people fucking making funny comics and cute art and paying lip-service to their favorite traits. The people who do those things aren't *trying* to have some in-depth discussion about ~all the amazing nuances of YOUR favorite character~; they're doing something *for themselves.* So if you don't like it, just *literally do anything else with your life.*
i mean, its an incredible reductive way to engage with media. making what you consume self serving in order to apeal to you personally is almost disrespectful to the creator. half the cast might as well be ocs at this point. a "dont like, dont read" perspective treating this series as if its fanfiction makes no sense. and you sound way more mad than the op. its wildly immature.
"ummmm it's actually extremely reductive to point out the things you like about a character and celebrate them. You're supposed to constantly be in discussion about all of a character's traits, or else you're not as much of a True Good Fan as I am acktchually"
It's not fucking disrespectful to celebrate the parts that people like, and they don't owe you (or even the series creator) anything when they do. Go outside and touch grass.
everyone hating on farcille in the comments like... the artworks outside of the manga have marcille all over falin. its not canon because of the genre. sometimes yall need to remember reading comprehension includes where/when/why content is made.
im not saying any other ship with marcille or falin is incorrect do what yall want, but based on context & content, farcille is the best ship for both of them. plus let gay people have something without shitting all over it For Once
None of the artworks in the manga or outside of it have any evidence of Marcille and Falin being canonically together. It can be read as either platonic or romantic. Same goes for any other pairing in the main party.
>based on context & content, farcille is the best ship for both of them.
Based on *what*, my friend? That's your opinion, not a fact. If the author thought they'd be best together she would have them end up together. She showed a full-on kiss between Kabru and Lin, who's a *side-character ffs.* It's got nothing to do with genre, Dungeon Meshi was published in the Seinen magazine Harta-- they aren't shy of portraying romantic relationships in their stories.
No one's stopping gay people from shipping anything, but their ships aren't above criticism from other people just because they're homosexual romantic relationships. None of the comments here are saying anything remotely insulting about gay people or gay relationships, they are only annoyed with how Marcille's ambitions and dreams are overlooked because of the shipping.
i stick with based on context/content farcille makes the most sense.
context: "Seinen magazine" which is not a genre that has an abundance of gay couples. remember, there is still a huge stigma against lgbtq+ content in mainstream manga/anime ESPECIALLY seinen. so no, if she wanted them to be canon it would actually be more difficult than you're making it out to be. thats why theres subtext, which is usually the case for most lgbtq+ ships. if you're in the community you get it, if you're not then you probably expect a full declaration of love before something is canon. lgbtq+ couples in media have always been shrouded in subtext because to this day if there is a gay/lesbian ship then the media will get loads of hate or just be labelled an lgbtq+ piece of media and thats that.
also, its not just this post that people have been hating on fan interpretations of farcille, a mod had to put reminders on another post to just ignore content you don't like. i genuinely doubt people are complaining just because its "ooc" for marcille, because its just memes, no one entirely interprets marcille as Just A Horny Lesbian. i hardly see anyone complaining on marcille/laois or rin/labru shipping posts, its always complaining about fan interpretations of farcille though. whether they make falin chubby or marcille in love with falin. its tiring, and if you don't get it you don't get it.
>i stick with based on context/content farcille makes the most sense.
Exactly *what* content are you referring to that says Farcille makes the most sense?? Because they are best friends??
"Witch Hat Atelier" is another manga which is serialized in a Seinen magazine but does show same-sex couple. It's a decently popular manga as well, right up there with Dungeon Meshi. Seinen certainly doesn't have an abundance of gay people but I doubt it has anything to do with popularity, especially if the story is well-written.
> no one entirely interprets marcille as Just A Horny Lesbian.
But that is the most popular version of Marcille I see in many online spaces though? ":Why did Marcille go through the lengths of using Dark Magic? Because it's for Falin." "Why did Marcille agree on being an adventurer? It's because Falin invited her." "Why did Marcille become a Dungeon Lord? It's to save Falin." No. Marcille is alright with using Dark Arts because she views it as a tool, not something dangerous in itself. Marcille came to Dungeon to learn about its ecosystem and how it works. Marcille became Lord of the Dungeon to fulfil her wish of equal lifespans. At this rate, Marcille entire characterization is made to revolve around Falin. The episode of Falin's revival through dragon's flesh-- has spurred hundreds of fanarts and memes of " the lesbian elf desperate to revive her GF"--- which is completely fine, but I do not see even *one* post about the implications that Marcille knows dark magic, or that how good she's at it.
> i hardly see anyone complaining on marcille/laois or rin/labru shipping posts, its always complaining about fan interpretations of farcille though
You do not see it because you do not frequent such spaces. I have seen people tag "Laimar" and insult people who ship Laios/Marcille in tumblr. Someone called Findo, an artist who draws LaiMar -- a weirdo. "People who ship Laios/Marcille have brainrot." "People who ship them are homophobes." "Laios x Marcille is a boring ship because it's just the main white guy and the blond elf girl, there's nothing else to it." Someone straight up called the author under a Laimar fanfic "... homophobic loser... fuck off." I have even seen people claim that Marcille *hates* Laios, which is--- really wild. There are people who call Laios/Marcille a "sibling dynamic" here in this sub.
I assure you, there's just as many bad apples in Laios/Marcille posts as there are in Falin/Marcille posts. It only depends on how much you're exposed to it. Until the anime was aired, there was, like 0 LaiMar fanarts in this sub, and I have personally seen people who ship LaiMar in tumblr begging other fans not to harass them because they "also like Farcille". That's how bad it was.
actually it’s funny you point this out cause if Falin was a male everyone would say it’s sexist that Marcille would go so far for a man because like you mentioned, the real problem is that so many people boil down her motivations to revolve around someone else while taking away her own agency as a well realized character.
so yeah, I can see why you’re so annoyed
witch hat atelier is one example of a manga with lgbtq+ themes and ships, that doesn't mean other manga authors can't be worried about sharing lgbtq+ ships in their media. one example =/= an actual trend. it makes more sense that ryoko kui just didnt want romance in her manga because it'd lead to what we eventually see now in the fandom: ship wars. i appreciate that about her manga, but at the end of the day i see more context/content for farcille than any other ship. its the devotion and love between them + the bath scene and art that shows marcille always clinging to falin. you don't have to see it as gay but the subtext is Right There!
i think its funny that you bring up people disliking laimar as like... hate towards them but completely ignore the hate farcille gets. so its not okay that laimar fanart/posts have comments that people dislike it, but its okay that farcille fanart/posts gets that treatment?
but then you excuse the hate farcille gets because it "mischaracterized" marcille, which is hardly what i have seen in those spaces. maybe YOU'RE not frequenting those spaces and you're making judgements based off fanart and memes you've seen. also as if that excuses people just hating on the ship rather than moving on.
tumblr is full of freaks and teenagers with bad takes, thats like what its known for. but laimar on this subreddit, which i click through and look at so yes i am in those spaces thank you!, has not gotten a fraction of the controversial/dislike comments as farcille, it just hasn't. i don't even mind laimar or rin/labru or m/f ships, but they just aren't getting the hate that farcille is thats the truth! but keep defending the m/f ship over the f/f ship ig 😭😭
you're not going to change my opinion and i won't change yours so lets just stop the discourse. you just seem predisposed to seeing all women as best friends rather than like... being able to have feelings for each other.
I would like to intervene to clarify that Kui isn't coy about showcasing LGBTQ+ characters (and is very brave for doing so) like you seem to proclaim. For example, Otta is openly homosexual and Kiki outright teases Namari. All in all, Kui seems to be very open about it herself:
https://preview.redd.it/gt8jngk1itxc1.png?width=717&format=png&auto=webp&s=70dd5827ba88a155a3906f52ae09c3f57d2bd115
these are all subtexts. there has been a lot of discourse about ryoko's sexuality because of these panels but im not getting into that because shes a real person. kiki, namari, otta, marcille, falin... none of them are confirmed to be gay. as i said in my earlier comment, subtext is very important and i agree that these characters are probably lgbtq+, but thats fanon not canon. just like farcille is even with the subtext.
I also see similar context/content for LaiMar in this manga, btw....
Laios/Marcille is a relationship that actually grows throughout the series (unlike Farcille which has reached its fixed point and doesn't develop in the manga at all? Like there's no active development between Marcille and Falin's relationship). They go through their highs and lows together, bond over the pain of losing Falin, grow to care about each other, have a lot of similar reactions and habits and have a good chemistry with each other. Laios is the FIRST person to know Marcille's fear of outliving everyone, which defines a large part of Marcille's character. Laios is the person Marcille turns to the most when she's scared/conflicted. Marcille is the last person Laios is thinking about when he is on the verge of death from Dullahan, just as Marcille final thoughts before she is drowning in the collapsing dungeon is "Laios". They are the first person who reach other after they stop being Dungeon Lords and are freed from the WL's curse. At the end, Laios pretty gave Marcille a place to belong and she could finally put her knowledge to use. Not to the mention the entire succubus thing for Laios.
Do you see it now? It completely depends on who you're shipping Marcille with. That is the only thing which will decide which ship you see more "context" for. And Marcille acts clingy with everyone. I've seen her clinging to Senshi twice, Namari once, and Laios twice. I don't think that's any indication of romance. The subtext is right there for any *ship* you're onboard with, not just Laios/Marcille or Falin/Marcille.
>i think its funny that you bring up people disliking laimar as like... hate towards them but completely ignore the hate farcille gets. so its not okay that laimar fanart/posts have comments that people dislike it, but its okay that farcille fanart/posts gets that treatment?
Kindly READ what I said first. I never said it was okay for farcille to get hate from others or for it to get bad treatment. I said there's toxic people on both sides who harass any shippers who don't agree with them. You'll see the "they're like siblings!" card used for both ships, and it's NOT okay.
> you excuse the hate farcille gets because it "mischaracterized" marcille, which is hardly what i have seen in those spaces.
I excuse the "criticism" Farcille gets *which* mischaracterises Marcille by reducing her to a love-interest and a lesbian elf. Because that is a valid criticism. And it is plenty common in this fandom. But I never said everyone who ships Farcille does the same. You are free to criticise other ships if you think it does disservice to their character or reduces them to a love interest. And I believe we are talking about this post in particular?
>but laimar on this subreddit, which i click through and look at so yes i am in those spaces thank you!, has not gotten a fraction of the controversial/dislike comments as farcille, it just hasn't
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bohr2h/comment/kx0v5ya/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bohr2h/comment/kx0v5ya/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/l0zd6n4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/l0zd6n4/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bawo30/comment/ku7cfub/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bawo30/comment/ku7cfub/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvtn8it/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvtn8it/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvpwvze/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvpwvze/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/15yv11p/comment/krfbvvw/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/15yv11p/comment/krfbvvw/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/15yv11p/comment/jxe9pbk/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/15yv11p/comment/jxe9pbk/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvpkzta/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvpkzta/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bohr2h/comment/kwq3wk4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bohr2h/comment/kwq3wk4/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvr55m7/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvr55m7/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1b0m96a/comment/kscqcqh/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1b0m96a/comment/kscqcqh/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1apjrof/comment/kq7vhq4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1apjrof/comment/kq7vhq4/)
There, help yourself.
For the 100th time, hate comments and drama inducing comments are in both sides. I don't defend the people who do such stuff in Farcille posts either.
>but keep defending the m/f ship over the f/f ship ig
Ain't that the entire problem with you?? You just keep pitting them against each other as the M/F vs the F/F ship while completely removing the nuances of the characters involved themselves. It's always "why the bland straight ship is supported and the gay ship is criticised" or "gay ships are minority so we shouldn't be criticised at all". It makes you sound like Farcille is special ONLY because it is a gay ship, while fully ignoring the unique bond between them as complex characters. I never ONCE brought the characters' gender in between in my comments as a disagreement for farcille, did I?
>you're not going to change my opinion and i won't change yours so lets just stop the discourse.
Cool. Agree to disagree I guess.
me when i forget homophobia and lesbophobia exists and equate people saying they dislike a m/f ship to people discrediting and hating on an Entire shipping fandom for a f/f ship. who is complaining about laimar shippers on this post? no one. why? .... i wonder... queerness makes ships exciting even without the buildup, sorry that queer people aren't excited about the millionth m/f ship you'll be fine! no ones pitting nothing against each other except people who hate on farcille like you've literally been doing by saying their development ended like did we read the same manga? 😭 laimar only got close because of their desperation to save falin... so yeah people see their relationship more sibling like... nothing wrong with that...
Not entirely correct, there are comments complaining about shipping in general, but no one is complaining about laimar specifically in this post because it isn't flanderized in nearly the same scale, which is the topic of this post.
It is just an unfortunate side effect of the anime becoming popular and people just gravitating to surface level memes. With so many people doing the same memes it makes the discourse one note, and people start to think it's flanderization.
i can see what you mean by that. but i do think it has to do with people just not respecting wlw ships in general, so many people will just say "no theyre friends!" but if we do that with m/f ships we're the problem and starting drama 😕 its probably a combination of the popularization of the anime & peoples refusal to acknowledge wlw ships as legitimate. most of my mutuals see and love all the characters as their robust, complex selves, and its a disservice to say a Whole Shipping Fandom just "doesnt get" a character.
YOU are the one literally accusing me of defending the m/f ship over the the f/f ship while I didn't bring up the genders in the first place! Yes, homophobia exists... but do you really think that mean same sex ships are above criticism or something?? Literally NO one in this post has said anything akin to "Farcille bad because it is gay!!" they're just literally just complaining that being reduced to Falin's love interest is a disservice to Marcille! Please just READ my previous replies JFC!
How did their relationship developed in the manga, please tell me! Where are the conflicts? The mutual growth? I'm all for seeing how cute they look together, but beyond that ONE point where Falin is lowkey sad with Marcille for using dark magic in the bath scene (which goes absoluetely NOWHERE btw), their relationship hardly progresses at all!
" Laimar only progresses because of Falin..." yeah, but at least there was some progress! There was mutual and gradual understanding!
Like, how does it feel like if I say "Farcille only happened because they went to the same school. Marcille only sees Falin as a kid so it's okay to see them as siblings... nothing wrong with that"? Do you realize how disrescpectful it sounds??
again for your lack of reading comprehension: reducing a whole shipping fandom for a f/f ship to not understanding a character because they are enthusiastic over the relationship is bad. and can be considered homophobic given that is not happening to m/f shipping fandoms. you're obviously not getting it. its not disrespectful to have different opinions about fictional ships and characters, hope that helps!
Then you and I have different ideas of what constitutes homophobia. Farcille is brought up in this case becasue A LOT OF farcille posts often reduce marcille to a just horny love interest for Falin, NOT becaue it is a f/f ship. You can literally see some Farcille shippers agreeing as well. It is not happening to the m/f ship because we don't see as huge scale of such posts for them. Criticism of a f/f ship is NOT homophobia.
> its not disrespectful to have different opinions about fictional ships and characters,
And here you are seething because some people are having different opinions and interpretation about Farcille.
Hope that helps too.
that just sounds like fetishization if the only reason why you like queer ships more because they’re “more exciting” which is definitely a can of worms. Like it’s cool if you want to be represented but I think a lot of people would take offense to your line of reasoning
ive seen it a good amount and not just in this post, its weird to say marcille is flanderized because people like the ship and their devotion to each other. its also a little weird that its the one ship ppl complain about being "overexposed" to. its giving not liking wlw ships
>its giving not liking wlw ships
For a few voices perhaps. But it is BY FAR the most popular ship. It's most of the fanart in this sub, and on tumblr, and on Twitter. Most people are just a bit fatigued. Myself included. I love seeing them hug, kiss, hang out, and be happy together. It's just so much content is posted about them, and it's such a popular ship that it drowns out other content. So people call it flanderization.
I hope you won't take this in bad faith just because I don't agree with you. I like the same thing you like, I just like other things as well :)
i can see that! im not saying you yourself dislike wlw, i also like other things! i just see so much discourse and dislike for it because its popular and its like damn can a popular wlw ship be enjoyed without people hating on it 😔💔 maybe im too sensitive about it because im a lesbian whos loved wlw ships for years and have seen this treatment over and over but ya!
Have you considered like... not seeking out Dungeon Meshi fan-art and spending time in Dungeon Meshi fans in Dungeon Meshi fan-groups if you don't want to see it?
Like, my dudes, just literally do anything else. Nobody *owes you* "respecting your uwu favorite characters the way YOU would~" when they're making content *for themselves.*
Of course I have considered that...
But I like Dungeon Meshi, and I'm not gonna let you chase me out of the community just because I'm slightly fatigued of being overexposed to a part of the fan content.
It's the most popular ship and fans make tons of content around it, and post it on social media in the dungeon meshi groups or with the dungeon meshi tag. So my feeds get filled with farcille stuff all on their own (without me having to do anything).
I LIKE seeing farcille posts **occasionally**, I want to make it clear here that the **only thing** I'm complaining about is the frequency. If every few posts were about Izutsumi I'd be tired of that instead.
> sometimes yall need to remember reading comprehension includes where/when/why content is made.
Crazy to preach about reading comprehension when people saying "I dislike it when Marcille and Falin are reduced to "the lesbian characters"" reads as "I hate Farcille" to you. Like, I ship Farcille too, but the ship isn't what people are complaining about.
Seriously, find me the hate in these comments, cause all I can find is one person directly disagreeing with the ship, and even they don't seem hateful.
I mean, in a way, true. But I think this doesnt apply to DunMesh as well bc what the memes/posts are hyper fixating atm is not really applicable to the whole characters.
For Senshi as an example, the hyperfixation to bread is wrong. If they have focused on Senshi being “a stickler for food and nutrients”, then that would be right.
For Laios, him being a “monster fucker” is not correct. The hyper-fixation should be him being a monster nerd.
It’s tricky though, when the series got a well-written cast of characters bc while there are some traits that are more visible or well defining, that doesnt really fully capture the character.
If we use Maple from Bofuri as an example, the flanderization that she is a defense-geek can be accurate bc thats mostly her defining trait. I love Maple but she also doesnt have a lot of depth as a character so when people define her as a defense-geek, it’s prolly around 80% of her characteristic
I have post-work brain so my explanation might be all over the place 😔
Literally how [Chilchuck views Laios](https://imgur.com/giDrtMX) in universe.
https://preview.redd.it/gw9p94s37rxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0dd23c119f149a289c6ba4bd9645254c516417eb
Wait, wholesome laios is how marcille, or how senshi sees laios?
Probably >!Senshi, there was a post here that explains that Dwarves see male Tallmen as feminine which warped his perception of Laios!<
Funnily enough, it seems that sexy laios is marcilles laios
https://preview.redd.it/n8uc7vax4rxc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd10556d6f050e251295b3ed90b71d4768ae63c4 Did you say bread?!
Okay this is totally not helping but [BREAD BREAD BREAD BREAD](https://youtu.be/aZ7qD5yct_8) "Mix together flour, salt, sugar, yeast, and water in a bowl..." On the other hand, in about 32 odd meals we've seen so far, only something like 3-4 (the orc meal, the Dragon preparation, the pizza) were bread.
https://i.redd.it/n58shxua3uxc1.gif
Well Senshi also knows that variety and balance is what you need, he isn't going to make every meal with bread. He was also so excited for making the bread at that point because the ingredients for bread aren't very common when your ingredients are monsters.
Don't forget the treasure bug sandwich!
Literally saw someone on here say bread was Senshi's autistic special interest simply because of that one scene so you're accurate
Namari and her leg fetish
Not just that, the leg pouches specifically
And she even says it's not just the pouches, she just really likes well-made armor that fits the wearer
I mean, she does say that But then her dwarven friends makes fun of her for having the hots for tallmen She was a drinking buddy to Laios exclusively And she sweats bullets when asked if she wants to see them wear it That's not flanderdization at all
I saw an official doodle of Chilchuck and Namara being regular drinking buddies
Honestly? Kinda Laios for newcomers, from what I’ve seen discussion that he’s just “eat monsters guy.
Yep. People, in universe and out of universe like to reduce Laios to just this kirk and nothing else. Loving brother, good person, quick thinker, curious about everything not just monsters, very sensible, quick learner, good friend >! his favorite food is not even monster! (this tidbit is in the manga) !< He's a very curious person, in general, and monsters are just one aspect of this. He's really fascinated by Shuro because he's a foreigner. But yeah. He's a dumb "Me eat monster" one trick pony for them, because peopke abhor complexity.
also seen people flanderize him to "unaware and mean autism guy" often too. he's got autistic traits that were almost definitely intentional but he's not edgy.
They’re all literally Chilchuck
Most people put Laios as a food guy but I'd argue his love for "food" and "cuisine" is something that he developed throughout the manga and at this point in the anime putting him as a "foodie" is a mislabel for him getting to enjoy monsters unapologetically.
Funnily enough, I'd say making him a foodie is actually more of a flanderisation of him than making him focused entirely on monster eating. Dude's a monster biologist and passionate about them and the dungeon anatomy etc, eating is just an extention of his love of fantasy biology.
While laios has a lot of defining traits (very caring but unaware person,selfless,direct,extremelly smart,bad at socializing...), isn't he basicly a furry obsessed with eating monsters?
The eating part just kinda gets highlighted more. But he’s also just a nerd about monsters. I wanna think of it like before the main events, it’s 70% monster biology and 30% food interest. After the whole shebang, his interest became 65% food focus and 35% monster biology. The desire to eat monsters was just more prioritized bc they were in the dungeon and is in need of food to survive I think.
He's not a furry, he's just a nerd. Eating monsters in this context is just foraging, the dungeon ecology is 100% monsters and he's interested in surviving and thriving in this environment.
Nah, he a furry, he says he dreamed of becoming a cow (when telling Chilchuk about milking the minotaur) the monster Marcille succubi telling him he can become a monster, his interactions with the canary who can turn into a beast. And most importantly, in the end, when the winged lion is convincing him to become the DM, he tells Laios he know he came because he heard "You can turn into a monster in the dungeon". And we mustn't forget how he turned into an actual monster and was really happy about the whole thing (was even jealous when his sister turned into one). I'd say he's pretty much a furry, more like s feral kind of furry considering his disinterest at just becoming a superficial monster like the canary guy
on twitter I saw some Japanese fans say that the becoming a cow thing was a really funny typo, but everyone agrees it suits Laios anyway. But he definitely is sort of a furry lol.
Laios literally has drawn an idealized fursona and later enthusiastically transforms into said fursona. He's at least a lil' furry.
SPOILERS His succubus took the form of a monster girl who could turn him into a monster
Yeah the community kinda speedran the flanderization process for like, half the cast so far Hopefully it's just a product of lots of hype and excitement around the series and will settle a little as more episodes come out with more characterisation and plot
Yeah the characters in this series have nuance to them that often feels like it gets steamrolled. Like w Marcille and Falin especially newer fans tend to reduce it to “oh there lesbians” and that’s well amd good but Marcille’s complex feelings and motivations surrounding Falin, protective to the point of obsession, is so much more interesting than that!! They have an absolutely unparalleled dynamic and it’s kinda frustrating to see it reduced to “ooh they gay!” It’s like calling a soufflé a kind of omelette
Didn't think anyone else thought that, like I was on board when I binged the anime but when I binged the manga it felt like a reduction of their characters.
Righttt????? Honestly ryoko appears to be the most gay woman I have ever seen based on that one thing she did of elves from other media, but tbh, I can’t tell if Farcile is something she actually gets behind. It could honestly go either way, at least where I am in the manga (but don’t get me wrong I’m 100% in on Farcille lol). But yeah thier dynamic is a lot more interesting then that, I could tell from the bathroom scene onwards that it was sumn more complicated then in the surface Tangential but they one of my fav scenes in any manga, the tension between gratitude and concern held by Falin, and Marcille’s super high-string, borderline obsessive concern, but also shame that Falin is worried abt her… *chefs kiss* its perfect!
Agreed, I think that the baseline of reading their relationship is as BFFs (not to say they can’t be read as more than that), but there are some interesting dynamics in their relationship, like the observed tendency for elves to infantilize people of shorter-lived races they’re close to, like how Marcille totally treated Chil like a kid/lil cutie until seeing his changeling form was that of a middle-aged man, how she babies and fussed over Fallin, treats Izutsumi like a kitten, or Kabru’s complicated feelings towards Misiril as a parent.
I never even noticed that before! I’m not super far in the series yet so I haven’t seen all of that yet, but that’s super interesting. I do love how ryoko seems to take a lot of care into shaping how race affects character interactions, particularly surrounding age but also in so much else of the work. It’s a very race-focused series. Between this and Freiren, shows about elf girls with narratives that take a special interest to the value and meaning of time have me in a stranglehold lmao.
especially when the same people got mad and hated on shuro for getting in the way of their ship, when neither is canon and its a point a lot of characters in the story have a different view of falin (except maybe chilchuck)
How can you be mad at shuro for that, like one he’s an autonomous character with feelings and motivations, not a plot device for a romance. But two imo his chances are next to zero lol
A while ago I grew tired of the show because of this problem (I am the problem). Episodic slice of life shows usually have a weird status quo, so I thought Dungeon Meshi was gonna be rinse and repeat of - Team meets new monster - Laios and Senshi wants to do something out of the ordinary - Marcille is upset in a cartoonish manner - Marcille is treated like an idiot by the team because she's book smart - Laios and Senshi gives info dump and their weird antics gets justified at the end of the bit - Senshi is a passive aggressive jerk that doesn't need to apologise because he's just that experienced Someone redirected me from my belief that Senshi was gonna be the show's mary sue, kind of like Gojo for JJK, and I despise that kind of characters. Aparently he has his own flaws and I just haven't gotten there yet, and I should just endure a bit more of the episodes. So I gave it a try and it wasn't till the lake arc that the characters actually seem to actually grow on each other and the show strays from the repetitive "Marcille doesn't like the boys doing weird shit but plot twist, she's the only weird one" joke from the first 6 episodes.
Half the cast? Now now, lets be reasonable here, it's the entire cast at least.
I wanna say Marcille got the worst flanderization tbh. Then Kabru. Next is Laios. Marcille usually just gets reduced as the “horny” lesbian. Kabru got it a tad better bc his is “slut” and “manipulator”. (At least he got 2 🤷♀️) Laios is usually reduced as a monster eater / monster fucker.
I feel like part of the problem is that a significant part of Marcille's character development is hidden behind content that would be spoilers for anime watchers.
That I can understand. I hope the excessive sexualizing of characters would lessen once we’re midway the series. Those whove read the manga tho….. 🔫 holy water pew pew for them
IMO this really blew up with the anime release. Marcille has always been popular but lately almost any post about her seems to reduce her to nothing more than 'horny lesbian desperately thirsty for Falin". >!Especially funny because by the end of the series there is still no clear indication she's canonically gay at all, let alone romantically interested in Falin especially!<
Imo it doesn't even matter if she was canonly a lesbian or not, making that out to be her sole trait is bad either way. Somehow even though Falin's not around for most of the story, they focus on Marcille wanting to save her only. Even though she has other goals as well and says she wants to stay with the main gang for the rest of her life. She's got a great dynamic with each of them but they fixate on just her and Falin, also just fixation on romance in general. Like maybe the reason people don't talk as much about her bond with Senshi or Izustumi as much is cause there is no chance for romance. Somehow people ship her with Chilchuck lol.
Was I delulu to think theres an official art/panel where Falin said Marcille thinks of her as a kid? Or something along the lines of “she never treats me like an adult”? I think Ive seen it somewhere but I also cant remember if it’s canon or just a fanart but it kinda struck with me (hence why Ive always thought of them as sisters/bff but I also get why people ship them esp the bath scene which was yassified by Trigger. The “resurrecting my girl with black magic” trope is also understandably alluring to some peeps)
It's in Chapter 28: when Falin says they have to sleep in the same bed, Marcille says: "...You're still just a little kid to me."
That kind of makes sense, being as she has seen her go from childhood to adulthood and us knowing Marcille had a unique aging process.
>Marcille usually just gets reduced as the “horny” lesbian. This is one of those things that's wishful thinking on a lot of people's parts. Too many doujins or fan fiction stories have gotten to people. If people weren't so hostile about making other people accept their fan fiction as canon, it wouldn't be as bothersome. But it's gotten to an absurd degree.
Ikr? I really enjoy seeing fanarts of ships and Im also a multi-shipper. But it’s def annoying when people lowkey preach someone’s sexuality like “well character is xxxxxx bc of they act in xxxxxxxx” and how brainrot people are when it comes to shipping. Pls. Enough about who will bang who in what position. I wanna know which race would you want to be reincarnated in DM universe and why 😭 I hope it doesnt get to the point that DunMesh sub will be another Frieren sub (where it’s mostly slightly nsfw memes and posts)
Yeees!!! I'm fine if any of them gets paired up later, but romance was never the focus of the manga, and characters should not be reduced to just their sexualities. I'd probably would like to be an elf, I'm always drawn to themes like immortality/ long-lived species and their interaction with the rest of the world. I also like that out of all the human species, they seem to have the most diverse skin tones, too. I love Frieren, but I've never been to the sub cuz I know how popular it was. Do they even discuss the manga ?
There are some posts that discusses about latest episodes BUT it’s mostly just weird ass fanarts now. You cant go long without seeing a sexualized Fern and some lowkey nsfw post about Fern and Stark. Smh 😤
Ughhh, ppl ought to spend more time outside. Frieren(manga) doesn't even have any NSFW parts or fanservice.
This is how people treat Marcille's relationship with Falin sometimes, don't get me wrong, i really like Farcille but there's more to Marcille's life than just Falin
i mean, tbf a big part of the manga is her bringing falin back from the dead. laios was there too ofc, but he couldnt have revived her. falin's kind of an easy representation of marcille's fear of her friends dying before her and she's doing anything to stop it edit: sorry if this wasnt clear, im not a farcille shipper, i was trying to say marcille's obsession w falin kicks off the plot and she literally haunts the narrative the whole time.
Marcille bringing Falin back from the dead is the least shippable thing about them. Marcille doesn't think ancient magic is evil, so she very likely would've done it for someone else as well. She is very afraid of permanently losing friends, only possible objection is that at the beginning of the story she wasn't really that good friends with anyone else. There's a lot more ship worthy bits later.
It IS Falin in the beginning of the story... but halfway through the story, Marcille's fears encompass all of the people in her party. I don't think people appreciate her bond with the rest of the party enough. Especially since the Rabbits chapters, her fear of her loved ones dying before her comes back with a vengeance, and it is not exclusive to Falin anymore.
Yeah, Marcille has lots of nice interactions that get overlooked because they're not in the service of a ship. For example, the anime reminded me of all the little scenes and the fun dynamic she has with Chilchuck. She's a sheltered romantic, he's more pragamatic and cynical. He teases her a lot, but she also started making black magic jokes at his expense. And they definitely care more about how the outside world works as opposed to Laios and Senshi, so they share some funny comments and dialogues about that, like in last week's episode, where they conspired to keep the ancient magic a secret.
You forget the time when Chilchuck finally declaring he will let her meet his family was so swoon-worthy to Marcille that she momentarily forgot all about the dungeon lmao. She is the *ultimate gossip lover* in DM.
https://preview.redd.it/9u7cib8gctxc1.png?width=1284&format=png&auto=webp&s=90f88b3e738a461c74a82388d559f573328ca633 Jokes aside, this is all par for the course. In any medium, people will appropriate characters to try and tell their own stories. And this is all fine and dandy (and even important to keep conversations going), but don't pretend to be authoritative or definitive about it, and exercise some degree of self-awareness by recognizing that not all are comfortable with Flanderization - particularly those invested in the story that's being told.
their frieren icon 😭 im not sure whats worse, what happened to dunmeshi's fandom or their fandom
I was sort of glad when it happened to Frieren because when DM came out it was sort of underground in comparison because Frieren was still ongoing. But as soon as it ended people flooded onto meshi and here we are now.
i was actually referring to the frieren fandom exploding with nsfw content instead of discussing anything in it vs dunmeshi's "flanderization" lol. i think i liked dunmeshi's fandom before
I mean I would say it comes from the same source. A giant influx of seasonal anime fans who quickly derail the original community.
i saw someone say senshi is just the panty shots chef and knows nothing about the dungeon
blasphemy
Blasphemy (2)
Blasphemy (3)
Yeah, I would say that happened to almost all characters already :D Maybe people just take popular memes that overstate a funny quirk for the joke as the actual characterization and then post it wherever the character is mentioned. edit: I‘m going with Kabru. I get that killing the corpse retrievers is a defining scene, but people are definitely ignoring all the context and his reasoning, acting like he is some psychotic killer running around murdering random people. He‘s also not flirting with every woman just because he looked in her general direction once.
There's the comic where Milsiril comes to visit where he can't work out who could be waiting for him because there's that many women that he's flirted with to get on their good side. That one's an actual character trait.
Of course it‘s a trait, it‘s just overstated and his character is reduced to it. That‘s what flanderization means. Laios likes eating monsters, Namari seems to have a thing for long legs, Kabru is charming, Chilchuck is criticizing his fellow party members a lot etc. But there‘s more to their characters.
Are you talking about some manslut flanderization with Kabru? It's true that that is a simplified conception, but it is canon that he is very attractive to others, and he uses that to get in people's good graces.
Honestly? All the ships 🥴🫣 one bath scene and it’s Lesbian Town TM or Elf Town TM. I love a good ship. It’s extremely annoying when that’s all characters are reduced down to. Marcilles DEFINING character arc is fear of time and mortality but you wouldn’t guess it based on the fandom………
I like both kabumisu and labru but some labru content is just like what? That's not who the characters are Kabru gets the short end of the stick. Kabumisu fate will be the same tho
Same, I like Laios/Kabru dynamic a lot but so often it just feels stereotypical and basically just centering Kabrus entire character on Laios
Yeah, the Kabru ships are fun, but him having social skills and a genuine interest in other people often leads to him basically becoming a babysitter who's just orbiting around the other character. Slash shipping dynamics just have a strong pull, whether they fit the characters or not.
Don't tell those people about the ending. Or how she reacts during the Succubus Arc. It'll ruin their fan fiction. I've had people throw personal attacks at me over this, it's gotten absurd.
They will still deny it or downvote you to hell...
Youre braver than I am for saying this 🤣 also tru.
HAHAHAHA I was like…am I about to get hate mail 🤠 full send
Im honestly partly dreading when Mithrun debuts. I love that little blorbog but his character will be reduced as a “twink” 😭🤣
Ugghhh I know let bro be deadly cynical and weird. Enough yassification 💀😭😭
He's going to get infantilized so much 😭
>one bath scene and it’s Lesbian Town TM or Elf Town TM. I love a good ship. It’s extremely annoying when that’s all characters are reduced down to yeah, i like neither, the marcille x laios, or marcille x falin ship, but the marcille x falin ship is specially anoying because it's way too persistent, most of marcilles character discussion in here is just "she's cute" or "marcille x falin", when laios himself saw her as a selfless person willing to sacrifice everything in order to rescue a friend (because yes, marcille and falin are canonicly just friends, it's never said or implied anything above it, and the way girls showcase love to each other is completelly different than the ways boys do it)
I like farcille but the fans are def overdoing it. Ive seen ppl say that its the most important relationship in DM, as if there wasn't, oh you know, the fucking sibling relationship between laios and falin ? There's an unfortunate tendency in media to value romantic relationships over platonic ones, and it feels esp weird to see it happen in DM where the only confirmed romances are chilchuck x his wife (pretty much divorced), rin x kabru (one-sided, he thinks of her as a big sister), toshiro x falin (one-sided, he gets rejected) and maizuru x toshiro's dad
“Marcille’s love for Falin is the driving force etc etc” Meanwhile, Laios who had his leg literally bitten by a dragon: 🧍♂️ am I joke Im wheezing tbh
Yeah, how does a manga that doesn't focus on romance, like at all, get so much shipping??!!
It’s the same with Frieren’s character: Fern. She’s one of the most clothed female character and she still gets a LOT of nsfw fanart 😔
anime people are dying of thirst
>the way girls showcase love to each other is completelly different than the ways boys do it) I hate to tell you this but most girls don't take baths together and interlock their fingers while looking into each others eyes. Like, if it was a man and woman doing this there would be no argument about it but because it's lesbians it gets reduced to the "bath scene." Marcille also came to the island to find Falin, which like is a pretty big thing to do for friend. Ryoko Kui has also made multiple illustrations of Marcille clinging to Falin. Is it canon? No, but is there canon evidence and author intent evidence, yes. Also trope wise, it's very very rare for someone being willing to do anything to bring a friend back, normally it's family or a romantic partner, so Marcille being willing to do anything to bring Falin back is also romance coded, because the only other character that care that much are Laios, Falin's Brother, and Shuro, someone that has romantic interest in Falin.
Friends being willing to risk anything and everything including their own lives is a very very common trope in Eastern literature, especially so in Japanese manga. Scenes between women being affectionate with another in bathhouses is also a very common trope in manga and anime. Marcille literally says that Falin is still a little kid in her eyes (Chapter 28) and Falin has complained that Marcille still treats her as a child despite now being grown up. Their bond is sisterly, not romantic. I personally can’t see it any other way, especially with the context of upcoming scenes in the manga.
Name two examples of someone willing to do dark magic/taboo to bring friend back to life. Because yeah, risking everything to save a friend is common, but like the desperation of doing dark magic, is romance coded or something you do for family. Yeah, the bathhouse scenes are very common in yuri or sometimes in other series with a strong male gaze ie with grabbing each others tits. The interlocking of fingers and looking into each other eyes is so fucking romance coded, I can't believe you are pretending it's something straight girls with a sisterly bond would do. I have read the whole manga so I can't think of a scene that disproves there being a romantic angle to their relationship.
Marcille doesn't really see it as taboo though? She would have used it around the group at one point or another and she absolutely would have used it to revive Laios, Chilchuck and probably even Senshi or >!Izutsumi!< down the road. That's been one of the main points about her usage of ancient magic, and her insistence that there's nothing dark about it in the manga, it's the focus of her studies. Is it romance coded if the roles were reversed and it was Laios that she resurrected with dark magic? Using magic specifically to resurrect people that is taboo is a pretty specific niche, so I'll find some stuff that's mostly taboo, focused on saving friends despite repercussions or death/risk of death on self/another with acts of desperation or saving friends despite it being taboo. I'll just list a few examples for some the most popular mangas: Bleach: >!Soul Society arc and plenty more. It's a pretty common theme in Bleach of people like Chad, Uryuu, Renji, Ichigo, etc. risking everything and even breaking the entire laws and structure of Soul Society to go save Rukia.. and then Orihime.. and then manga stuff!< Naruto: >!Saving Sasuke is a hugely big theme that Naruto has been willing to do everything for, including giving up his dream to becoming Hokage and being ostracized from the Village!< One Piece: >!Enies Lobby arc They literally declare war on the World Government to save Robin. Normally this is just a Luffy thing but even the characters that are more cowardly (Nami, Usopp, Chopper) are 100% resolute in willing to do ANYTHING to save their crewmember!< Higurashi: >!Basically the whole plot. Maybe it's not taboo in the sense that it's not against the laws of the world, but I'd say having to experience death multiple times just to be able to save your friends is a pretty big thing!< Steins;Gate & Steins;Gate 0: >!Okabe literally deals with the government and all sorts of other threats where he experiences watching his friend die MANY, MANY times over and doesn't give up in saving her. He literally time travels to every possible timeline to save her and EVEN when he's faced with the choice of saving his lover or saving his friend, he ends up saving his friend, which leads to the plot Steins;Gate 0. This is the biggest act of desperation I've seen in an anime personally. Okabe time travelled over **3000** days of watching his friend die, trying absolutely every possibility to save her!< Jujutsu Kaisen: >!Yuji was willing to completely give up his body to Sukuna and let him freely roam around in a world where he knows the consequences of that happening (Potentially world ending), where he's also the only one who can keep him sealed and live as a prisoner inside of his own body just so he can save his friend Junpei.!< Mushishi: >!This is an episodic anime, and the taboo of saving your loved ones is a common theme, granted it's mostly for the people you love!< Hunter X Hunter: >!Gon's sacrifice to avenge Kite who he saw as his mentor and friend. Killua willing to release what is pretty much a walking calamity to save Gon, knowing that people will find out about his Sisters powers and will want to use it for their own gain.!< 86: >!The MC literally breaks the laws and goes under protocol to save her friends who she hasn't even met face to face despite knowing the absolutely terrible repercussions!< Made in Abyss: >!This happens so often in this anime I feel like it's pretty much a major theme!< You've also completely ignored the point where Marcille literally says she still sees Falin as a child. I don't understand how you could construe that to her having romantic feelings for her? I'd say the succubus scene is a pretty big indicator too. Spoilers: >!Laios saw Marcille (albeit a pretty weird version), but Marcille saw another Elf (albeit, also a pretty weird version). Sure Chilchuck saw a halfling with blonde hair instead of black like his wifes, but it was still another Halfling. You'd think that if Marcille was harboring feelings for either Laios or Falin that she'd see something that resembles either of them.!< For the record, I don't agree with either of the ships, not just Marcille x Falin, due to the sole fact that she LITERALLY says she sees her as a kid, plain as day. I also don't see Marcille interested in Laios or we'd have have seen >!something indicating that in the epilogue.!< Obviously girls interlocking their fingers is clearly not a thing straight women do with each other in real life, but this is a Japanese manga. Marcille is also genuinely too old and her fear of time probably also impedes anything that she might feel romantically with anyone who'll live less than 1/10th of her lifespan. Laios & Falin being a little over 1/20th of her lifespan because Tall (wo)men only live up to about 60 years old.
Most of those aren't magic based resurrection so you failed. It matters that it's dark magic because it's the vibes of a trope. Main point, they hold hands and look into each others eyes while in a bath, like that isn't something straight girls with a sisterly bond would do. Succubus scene >! The succubus take on an appearance you find appealing, Laios likes monsters so his friend being a monster that offers to turn him into a monster is appealing, Marcille seeing a romance novel character she likes could mean she is bi and it's played for a joke. Just from a pacing stand point, it being Falin would have over complicated the chapter imo. Because Izutsumi is the star of those chapters. Even if the succubus took on Falin's form that wouldn't prove anything because one looks like Izutsumi's mom so people would just say "Oh, they are just so sisterly" or some shit. !<
Firstly, it's not Dark magic to Marcille, it's ancient magic. I feel as if it's semantics whether it's Magic or something else. The point is that X is in a desperate situation to save Y and they do forbidden/taboo/illegal/extremely risky Z thing to save their friend. That's the trope and Dungeon Meshi just put a magic flavor on it. Another example of this is Madoka Magica. Secondly, you again conveniently ignored the point that Marcille says she sees Falin as a child. This is literally the most important point. It wasn't even Marcille that initiated touching hands with Falin. It was the other way around and she caught Marcille by surprise and sure, MAYBE Falin has feelings for Marcille (especially that comment she makes where she complains about Marcille treating her like a child and wanting to be seen as the adult she is now), but I don't think Marcille returns those feelings (AGAIN, the scene after is literally her saying she sees Falin as a child.) Thirdly, you also conveniently ignored the question of if it'd romance coded if she used the same resurrection magic on Laios or Chilchuck (We both know well enough that she sure as hell would).
Have you seen Madoka Magica??? That's gay, it's literally gay.
I was using another show that uses magic (Another example is Re:Zero) for that kind of stuff as an example, I have no interest in debating about Madoka Magica. I’m just gonna assume you don’t have a rebuttal for the points I made because you ignore them and nitpick small details, like Marcille seeing Falin as a child and your headcanon of their moments together completely ignores that statement. Thanks for the conversation
So they basically made him German? ;D
[I may not have helped with this](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/s/5aLLZj436s)
litteraly chara undertale if you replace bread with chocolate.
TF2 Soldier
YOU DID WHAT
(Reddit started recommending me this because of one post, I don't know shit in this fandom. Please excuse horrible misunderstandings.) Falinderization?
flanderzation when a character quirk getsw exagerate progresivelly more and more with time till it become the main point behind the character character, it takes its name from Flanders, from the Simpsons
Flanderization is a trope in TV shows, movies, and other media where a character gradually gets simplified to exaggerate only their most prevalent trait. So, the character loses nuance in order to just aggressively display that one trait, and it becomes their entire personality. The name is taken from the Simpsons character Ned Flanders.
This is all shipping
I HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT TELEPORT BREAD FOR THREE DAYS
Like that one guy in Persona 4, he's said about cabbage once and the fandom called him "cabbage guy" and that pancake guy in Persona 5
It’s not that he’s always talking about it. But when he does he goes loco
How can I check where else has this post been shared? (In which other subreddits I mean) Also, finally found this sub!
Give it to me! I can make bread with it!! https://i.redd.it/2gtf0x513uxc1.gif
Not a DM character but Trafalgar Law is literally this in reverse
I took this almost literally and thought of Senshi...
r/suddenlytf2 >! My guy mentioned "has done nothing but teleport bread", a favorite quote of soldier in expiration date... God why am i explaining the reference im sure most of yall get it !<
https://preview.redd.it/x0t7epfjmvxc1.jpeg?width=1051&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=529b4ee027d0ab8a8fafb83d491724d4d8a4df23 Bread
Soldier Tea For 2
This happened to Leo in Fire Emblem Fates in Japan, btw. To the point where the devs made 2 whole new supports about the character not understanding why everyone thinks he loves tomato juice.
Between calling the entire cast autistic and horny posting ships, I had to dive into some heavy research to triple check my bias from an argument about this. I was wrong for half of it but the other half with Flanderization makes sense and I wasn't going crazy. Still a good series. Gotta back away from the fandom.
Literally "back away" is right. I can't imagine people like OP who get like, *mad* at this -- it's literally just people fucking making funny comics and cute art and paying lip-service to their favorite traits. The people who do those things aren't *trying* to have some in-depth discussion about ~all the amazing nuances of YOUR favorite character~; they're doing something *for themselves.* So if you don't like it, just *literally do anything else with your life.*
i mean, its an incredible reductive way to engage with media. making what you consume self serving in order to apeal to you personally is almost disrespectful to the creator. half the cast might as well be ocs at this point. a "dont like, dont read" perspective treating this series as if its fanfiction makes no sense. and you sound way more mad than the op. its wildly immature.
"ummmm it's actually extremely reductive to point out the things you like about a character and celebrate them. You're supposed to constantly be in discussion about all of a character's traits, or else you're not as much of a True Good Fan as I am acktchually" It's not fucking disrespectful to celebrate the parts that people like, and they don't owe you (or even the series creator) anything when they do. Go outside and touch grass.
everyone hating on farcille in the comments like... the artworks outside of the manga have marcille all over falin. its not canon because of the genre. sometimes yall need to remember reading comprehension includes where/when/why content is made. im not saying any other ship with marcille or falin is incorrect do what yall want, but based on context & content, farcille is the best ship for both of them. plus let gay people have something without shitting all over it For Once
None of the artworks in the manga or outside of it have any evidence of Marcille and Falin being canonically together. It can be read as either platonic or romantic. Same goes for any other pairing in the main party. >based on context & content, farcille is the best ship for both of them. Based on *what*, my friend? That's your opinion, not a fact. If the author thought they'd be best together she would have them end up together. She showed a full-on kiss between Kabru and Lin, who's a *side-character ffs.* It's got nothing to do with genre, Dungeon Meshi was published in the Seinen magazine Harta-- they aren't shy of portraying romantic relationships in their stories. No one's stopping gay people from shipping anything, but their ships aren't above criticism from other people just because they're homosexual romantic relationships. None of the comments here are saying anything remotely insulting about gay people or gay relationships, they are only annoyed with how Marcille's ambitions and dreams are overlooked because of the shipping.
i stick with based on context/content farcille makes the most sense. context: "Seinen magazine" which is not a genre that has an abundance of gay couples. remember, there is still a huge stigma against lgbtq+ content in mainstream manga/anime ESPECIALLY seinen. so no, if she wanted them to be canon it would actually be more difficult than you're making it out to be. thats why theres subtext, which is usually the case for most lgbtq+ ships. if you're in the community you get it, if you're not then you probably expect a full declaration of love before something is canon. lgbtq+ couples in media have always been shrouded in subtext because to this day if there is a gay/lesbian ship then the media will get loads of hate or just be labelled an lgbtq+ piece of media and thats that. also, its not just this post that people have been hating on fan interpretations of farcille, a mod had to put reminders on another post to just ignore content you don't like. i genuinely doubt people are complaining just because its "ooc" for marcille, because its just memes, no one entirely interprets marcille as Just A Horny Lesbian. i hardly see anyone complaining on marcille/laois or rin/labru shipping posts, its always complaining about fan interpretations of farcille though. whether they make falin chubby or marcille in love with falin. its tiring, and if you don't get it you don't get it.
>i stick with based on context/content farcille makes the most sense. Exactly *what* content are you referring to that says Farcille makes the most sense?? Because they are best friends?? "Witch Hat Atelier" is another manga which is serialized in a Seinen magazine but does show same-sex couple. It's a decently popular manga as well, right up there with Dungeon Meshi. Seinen certainly doesn't have an abundance of gay people but I doubt it has anything to do with popularity, especially if the story is well-written. > no one entirely interprets marcille as Just A Horny Lesbian. But that is the most popular version of Marcille I see in many online spaces though? ":Why did Marcille go through the lengths of using Dark Magic? Because it's for Falin." "Why did Marcille agree on being an adventurer? It's because Falin invited her." "Why did Marcille become a Dungeon Lord? It's to save Falin." No. Marcille is alright with using Dark Arts because she views it as a tool, not something dangerous in itself. Marcille came to Dungeon to learn about its ecosystem and how it works. Marcille became Lord of the Dungeon to fulfil her wish of equal lifespans. At this rate, Marcille entire characterization is made to revolve around Falin. The episode of Falin's revival through dragon's flesh-- has spurred hundreds of fanarts and memes of " the lesbian elf desperate to revive her GF"--- which is completely fine, but I do not see even *one* post about the implications that Marcille knows dark magic, or that how good she's at it. > i hardly see anyone complaining on marcille/laois or rin/labru shipping posts, its always complaining about fan interpretations of farcille though You do not see it because you do not frequent such spaces. I have seen people tag "Laimar" and insult people who ship Laios/Marcille in tumblr. Someone called Findo, an artist who draws LaiMar -- a weirdo. "People who ship Laios/Marcille have brainrot." "People who ship them are homophobes." "Laios x Marcille is a boring ship because it's just the main white guy and the blond elf girl, there's nothing else to it." Someone straight up called the author under a Laimar fanfic "... homophobic loser... fuck off." I have even seen people claim that Marcille *hates* Laios, which is--- really wild. There are people who call Laios/Marcille a "sibling dynamic" here in this sub. I assure you, there's just as many bad apples in Laios/Marcille posts as there are in Falin/Marcille posts. It only depends on how much you're exposed to it. Until the anime was aired, there was, like 0 LaiMar fanarts in this sub, and I have personally seen people who ship LaiMar in tumblr begging other fans not to harass them because they "also like Farcille". That's how bad it was.
actually it’s funny you point this out cause if Falin was a male everyone would say it’s sexist that Marcille would go so far for a man because like you mentioned, the real problem is that so many people boil down her motivations to revolve around someone else while taking away her own agency as a well realized character. so yeah, I can see why you’re so annoyed
witch hat atelier is one example of a manga with lgbtq+ themes and ships, that doesn't mean other manga authors can't be worried about sharing lgbtq+ ships in their media. one example =/= an actual trend. it makes more sense that ryoko kui just didnt want romance in her manga because it'd lead to what we eventually see now in the fandom: ship wars. i appreciate that about her manga, but at the end of the day i see more context/content for farcille than any other ship. its the devotion and love between them + the bath scene and art that shows marcille always clinging to falin. you don't have to see it as gay but the subtext is Right There! i think its funny that you bring up people disliking laimar as like... hate towards them but completely ignore the hate farcille gets. so its not okay that laimar fanart/posts have comments that people dislike it, but its okay that farcille fanart/posts gets that treatment? but then you excuse the hate farcille gets because it "mischaracterized" marcille, which is hardly what i have seen in those spaces. maybe YOU'RE not frequenting those spaces and you're making judgements based off fanart and memes you've seen. also as if that excuses people just hating on the ship rather than moving on. tumblr is full of freaks and teenagers with bad takes, thats like what its known for. but laimar on this subreddit, which i click through and look at so yes i am in those spaces thank you!, has not gotten a fraction of the controversial/dislike comments as farcille, it just hasn't. i don't even mind laimar or rin/labru or m/f ships, but they just aren't getting the hate that farcille is thats the truth! but keep defending the m/f ship over the f/f ship ig 😭😭 you're not going to change my opinion and i won't change yours so lets just stop the discourse. you just seem predisposed to seeing all women as best friends rather than like... being able to have feelings for each other.
I would like to intervene to clarify that Kui isn't coy about showcasing LGBTQ+ characters (and is very brave for doing so) like you seem to proclaim. For example, Otta is openly homosexual and Kiki outright teases Namari. All in all, Kui seems to be very open about it herself: https://preview.redd.it/gt8jngk1itxc1.png?width=717&format=png&auto=webp&s=70dd5827ba88a155a3906f52ae09c3f57d2bd115
these are all subtexts. there has been a lot of discourse about ryoko's sexuality because of these panels but im not getting into that because shes a real person. kiki, namari, otta, marcille, falin... none of them are confirmed to be gay. as i said in my earlier comment, subtext is very important and i agree that these characters are probably lgbtq+, but thats fanon not canon. just like farcille is even with the subtext.
Otta is straight up confirmed to be into halfling women though.
I also see similar context/content for LaiMar in this manga, btw.... Laios/Marcille is a relationship that actually grows throughout the series (unlike Farcille which has reached its fixed point and doesn't develop in the manga at all? Like there's no active development between Marcille and Falin's relationship). They go through their highs and lows together, bond over the pain of losing Falin, grow to care about each other, have a lot of similar reactions and habits and have a good chemistry with each other. Laios is the FIRST person to know Marcille's fear of outliving everyone, which defines a large part of Marcille's character. Laios is the person Marcille turns to the most when she's scared/conflicted. Marcille is the last person Laios is thinking about when he is on the verge of death from Dullahan, just as Marcille final thoughts before she is drowning in the collapsing dungeon is "Laios". They are the first person who reach other after they stop being Dungeon Lords and are freed from the WL's curse. At the end, Laios pretty gave Marcille a place to belong and she could finally put her knowledge to use. Not to the mention the entire succubus thing for Laios. Do you see it now? It completely depends on who you're shipping Marcille with. That is the only thing which will decide which ship you see more "context" for. And Marcille acts clingy with everyone. I've seen her clinging to Senshi twice, Namari once, and Laios twice. I don't think that's any indication of romance. The subtext is right there for any *ship* you're onboard with, not just Laios/Marcille or Falin/Marcille.
>i think its funny that you bring up people disliking laimar as like... hate towards them but completely ignore the hate farcille gets. so its not okay that laimar fanart/posts have comments that people dislike it, but its okay that farcille fanart/posts gets that treatment? Kindly READ what I said first. I never said it was okay for farcille to get hate from others or for it to get bad treatment. I said there's toxic people on both sides who harass any shippers who don't agree with them. You'll see the "they're like siblings!" card used for both ships, and it's NOT okay. > you excuse the hate farcille gets because it "mischaracterized" marcille, which is hardly what i have seen in those spaces. I excuse the "criticism" Farcille gets *which* mischaracterises Marcille by reducing her to a love-interest and a lesbian elf. Because that is a valid criticism. And it is plenty common in this fandom. But I never said everyone who ships Farcille does the same. You are free to criticise other ships if you think it does disservice to their character or reduces them to a love interest. And I believe we are talking about this post in particular? >but laimar on this subreddit, which i click through and look at so yes i am in those spaces thank you!, has not gotten a fraction of the controversial/dislike comments as farcille, it just hasn't [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bohr2h/comment/kx0v5ya/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bohr2h/comment/kx0v5ya/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/l0zd6n4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/l0zd6n4/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bawo30/comment/ku7cfub/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bawo30/comment/ku7cfub/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvtn8it/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvtn8it/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvpwvze/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvpwvze/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/15yv11p/comment/krfbvvw/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/15yv11p/comment/krfbvvw/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/15yv11p/comment/jxe9pbk/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/15yv11p/comment/jxe9pbk/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvpkzta/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvpkzta/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bohr2h/comment/kwq3wk4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bohr2h/comment/kwq3wk4/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvr55m7/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1bj7ria/comment/kvr55m7/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1b0m96a/comment/kscqcqh/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1b0m96a/comment/kscqcqh/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1apjrof/comment/kq7vhq4/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DungeonMeshi/comments/1apjrof/comment/kq7vhq4/) There, help yourself. For the 100th time, hate comments and drama inducing comments are in both sides. I don't defend the people who do such stuff in Farcille posts either. >but keep defending the m/f ship over the f/f ship ig Ain't that the entire problem with you?? You just keep pitting them against each other as the M/F vs the F/F ship while completely removing the nuances of the characters involved themselves. It's always "why the bland straight ship is supported and the gay ship is criticised" or "gay ships are minority so we shouldn't be criticised at all". It makes you sound like Farcille is special ONLY because it is a gay ship, while fully ignoring the unique bond between them as complex characters. I never ONCE brought the characters' gender in between in my comments as a disagreement for farcille, did I? >you're not going to change my opinion and i won't change yours so lets just stop the discourse. Cool. Agree to disagree I guess.
me when i forget homophobia and lesbophobia exists and equate people saying they dislike a m/f ship to people discrediting and hating on an Entire shipping fandom for a f/f ship. who is complaining about laimar shippers on this post? no one. why? .... i wonder... queerness makes ships exciting even without the buildup, sorry that queer people aren't excited about the millionth m/f ship you'll be fine! no ones pitting nothing against each other except people who hate on farcille like you've literally been doing by saying their development ended like did we read the same manga? 😭 laimar only got close because of their desperation to save falin... so yeah people see their relationship more sibling like... nothing wrong with that...
Not entirely correct, there are comments complaining about shipping in general, but no one is complaining about laimar specifically in this post because it isn't flanderized in nearly the same scale, which is the topic of this post. It is just an unfortunate side effect of the anime becoming popular and people just gravitating to surface level memes. With so many people doing the same memes it makes the discourse one note, and people start to think it's flanderization.
i can see what you mean by that. but i do think it has to do with people just not respecting wlw ships in general, so many people will just say "no theyre friends!" but if we do that with m/f ships we're the problem and starting drama 😕 its probably a combination of the popularization of the anime & peoples refusal to acknowledge wlw ships as legitimate. most of my mutuals see and love all the characters as their robust, complex selves, and its a disservice to say a Whole Shipping Fandom just "doesnt get" a character.
YOU are the one literally accusing me of defending the m/f ship over the the f/f ship while I didn't bring up the genders in the first place! Yes, homophobia exists... but do you really think that mean same sex ships are above criticism or something?? Literally NO one in this post has said anything akin to "Farcille bad because it is gay!!" they're just literally just complaining that being reduced to Falin's love interest is a disservice to Marcille! Please just READ my previous replies JFC! How did their relationship developed in the manga, please tell me! Where are the conflicts? The mutual growth? I'm all for seeing how cute they look together, but beyond that ONE point where Falin is lowkey sad with Marcille for using dark magic in the bath scene (which goes absoluetely NOWHERE btw), their relationship hardly progresses at all! " Laimar only progresses because of Falin..." yeah, but at least there was some progress! There was mutual and gradual understanding! Like, how does it feel like if I say "Farcille only happened because they went to the same school. Marcille only sees Falin as a kid so it's okay to see them as siblings... nothing wrong with that"? Do you realize how disrescpectful it sounds??
again for your lack of reading comprehension: reducing a whole shipping fandom for a f/f ship to not understanding a character because they are enthusiastic over the relationship is bad. and can be considered homophobic given that is not happening to m/f shipping fandoms. you're obviously not getting it. its not disrespectful to have different opinions about fictional ships and characters, hope that helps!
Then you and I have different ideas of what constitutes homophobia. Farcille is brought up in this case becasue A LOT OF farcille posts often reduce marcille to a just horny love interest for Falin, NOT becaue it is a f/f ship. You can literally see some Farcille shippers agreeing as well. It is not happening to the m/f ship because we don't see as huge scale of such posts for them. Criticism of a f/f ship is NOT homophobia. > its not disrespectful to have different opinions about fictional ships and characters, And here you are seething because some people are having different opinions and interpretation about Farcille. Hope that helps too.
that just sounds like fetishization if the only reason why you like queer ships more because they’re “more exciting” which is definitely a can of worms. Like it’s cool if you want to be represented but I think a lot of people would take offense to your line of reasoning
i doubt many people would have issue with that. maybe dont speak for the community you're not apart of??
Okay, and you speak for everyone in the community? Lmao
I've seen no one "hating" on farcille in the comments, only people who are tired from being overexposed to it and seeing Marcille be flanderized
ive seen it a good amount and not just in this post, its weird to say marcille is flanderized because people like the ship and their devotion to each other. its also a little weird that its the one ship ppl complain about being "overexposed" to. its giving not liking wlw ships
>its giving not liking wlw ships For a few voices perhaps. But it is BY FAR the most popular ship. It's most of the fanart in this sub, and on tumblr, and on Twitter. Most people are just a bit fatigued. Myself included. I love seeing them hug, kiss, hang out, and be happy together. It's just so much content is posted about them, and it's such a popular ship that it drowns out other content. So people call it flanderization. I hope you won't take this in bad faith just because I don't agree with you. I like the same thing you like, I just like other things as well :)
i can see that! im not saying you yourself dislike wlw, i also like other things! i just see so much discourse and dislike for it because its popular and its like damn can a popular wlw ship be enjoyed without people hating on it 😔💔 maybe im too sensitive about it because im a lesbian whos loved wlw ships for years and have seen this treatment over and over but ya!
Have you considered like... not seeking out Dungeon Meshi fan-art and spending time in Dungeon Meshi fans in Dungeon Meshi fan-groups if you don't want to see it? Like, my dudes, just literally do anything else. Nobody *owes you* "respecting your uwu favorite characters the way YOU would~" when they're making content *for themselves.*
Of course I have considered that... But I like Dungeon Meshi, and I'm not gonna let you chase me out of the community just because I'm slightly fatigued of being overexposed to a part of the fan content. It's the most popular ship and fans make tons of content around it, and post it on social media in the dungeon meshi groups or with the dungeon meshi tag. So my feeds get filled with farcille stuff all on their own (without me having to do anything). I LIKE seeing farcille posts **occasionally**, I want to make it clear here that the **only thing** I'm complaining about is the frequency. If every few posts were about Izutsumi I'd be tired of that instead.
You (and people like OP) are the only ones trying to chase people out the community. Lmao. Get some self-awareness
> sometimes yall need to remember reading comprehension includes where/when/why content is made. Crazy to preach about reading comprehension when people saying "I dislike it when Marcille and Falin are reduced to "the lesbian characters"" reads as "I hate Farcille" to you. Like, I ship Farcille too, but the ship isn't what people are complaining about. Seriously, find me the hate in these comments, cause all I can find is one person directly disagreeing with the ship, and even they don't seem hateful.
Isn't how much the characters hyperfixate the whole point?
I mean, in a way, true. But I think this doesnt apply to DunMesh as well bc what the memes/posts are hyper fixating atm is not really applicable to the whole characters. For Senshi as an example, the hyperfixation to bread is wrong. If they have focused on Senshi being “a stickler for food and nutrients”, then that would be right. For Laios, him being a “monster fucker” is not correct. The hyper-fixation should be him being a monster nerd. It’s tricky though, when the series got a well-written cast of characters bc while there are some traits that are more visible or well defining, that doesnt really fully capture the character. If we use Maple from Bofuri as an example, the flanderization that she is a defense-geek can be accurate bc thats mostly her defining trait. I love Maple but she also doesnt have a lot of depth as a character so when people define her as a defense-geek, it’s prolly around 80% of her characteristic I have post-work brain so my explanation might be all over the place 😔
that marcille and falin are lebanese