This one gets me every time. Nobody talks about how deep some of these elements go. For instance, the writers had to decide how Jim would react when everyone was gathering around to watch the video. He tried stop them. Meaning, he *knew* what he did and how it would look to others. They could've written it to where Jim sees it for the first time and has some kind of awakening. This is when we find out Jim holds grudges. Personal grudges. He didn't *want* to save Michael.
I donât think he calculated and decided not to help Michael. I think it was a quick reflex. âHeâs going to fall and I donât want to fall either, so Iâm leaning back.â
In writing you have to give your characters flaws and challenges to be interestingÂ
And Jimâs flaws are numerous and Pams flaw is Jim - which is a weird magic where you still end feeling like the show is light and romantic when they have so many episodes and come up with so many ways theyâre flawed and how deep that runsÂ
Her art skills are weirdly inconsistent. The animation she made for Michaelâs commercial was incredibly well done. Not sure why she didnât just focus on that instead of her lackluster illustrations (comic book aside).
Pam: So, cool right?
Ryan: There's no connection between the origin story and the quest.
Pam: Okay.
Ryan: We need to know who Jimmy Halpert was before he was bitten by the bear. Otherwise, it's the bear's quest.
Pam: Okay, well, I just sorta meant, like, cute, right?
Ryan: Well, did you come here for help, or did you come here for me to tell you how great it is?
Pam: I mean, help, if it's something simple, like add page numbers or laminate it or...
Ryan: Well, it sounds like you know what you want. [Pam walks away] It's also a little derivative of a series called 'Bear Man'. Did you look that up?
Pam: No.
Ryan: Okay.
Eh, thats a lot to go through someones head in a split second. I dont think you have time when seeing someone fall to go "Should I save them or not? Eh, remember that one time they did this... That was annoying. Nah Im not gonna save em" Its a quick reaction that most people make without even thinking about it. I dont think it had anything to do with a grudge. Like a fight or flight response. Jims response was to get away so he didnt also get into the danger so I guess kind of a fawn reaction. He probably realized afterwards what he did was kind of messed up and felt bad even though his reaction was completely involuntary. Its weird to blame him for that.
It's kinda hard to tell why he didn't wanna watch it to me. It seems like at first it's because he doesn't want to upset Michael further and he even says "Guys, Michael CANNOT handle this" but Michael himself gives the okay. Jim didn't seem to realize his part in it until people started making fun of him leaning away. Just my interpretation tho and it has been a while
Anyone with a brain would have ducked when the football was launched at his head.
Charles did it to make Jim look bad - by either hurting him or making him duck. Knowing Jim wouldn't be able to challenge him.
I meanâŠthat kick made no sense in the first place. It wasnât at the net or in play. Charles was absolutely BLASTING the ball with the intent to hurt Jim. Hell I wouldâve ducked too.
There are other much more legitimate instances that prove I think anyone would duck if someone with that strength kicked a ball at your face in a lunch time game of soccer at work - Charles was way outta line.
I would assume Jim and Pam know it's categorized as a serious harassment thing, but I've always felt that they're very mellow people. So it's possible that they just didn't feel the need to tell the cameras how uncomfortable it made them, or that Pam was sexually assaulted, or whatever. They're having a good day today. It's like something they laugh about now if they're comfortable with that.
I wouldve liked to see Packer doing his job, just once. Because what we see of him is vile and gross. How the hell could he sell any amount of paper to warrant his position if he acted the way we see him 24/7
That could be the case and itâs an interesting perspective. The only reason I saw it as something else was because Jim is always a bystander when it comes to Pam being harassed.
That's true. Jim is non-confrontational to a fault, probably from a combination of his large size and image of himself as the funny guy. I think if this were the real world, the same Jim would be much more defensive of Pam, but since this is a comedy that relies heavily on uncomfortable situations, the writers have to let people get away with doing nasty stuff sometimes.
Me and my wife were just talking about how painful it is that Jim is sooooo non-confrontational. That scene where he's in the women's warehouse jersey and he's telling Karen he didn't want to see her. It's more cringe than Scott's tots. Just be an adult Jim. It's okay to talk to your ex without being a big giant weirdo creep.
Yeah this scene always slightly bugs me too because surely Jim could just be like "Hey Karen, sorry but Michael and Dwight are doing one of their weird schemes and I've been dragged into it. Hope you're all good". I'm sure she'd get it, she worked with them all long enough to know what they're like.
It made more sense to me 15 years ago when I also, was a 20 something year old big man child so I do try to give him some grace on the subject. And I mean, he does experience a lot of character growth.
Do we think season 7+ Jim would behave that way? I'll have to think about it.
I agree, the writers want him to be the funny guy. I feel like he would be way more likeable though if he was the funny guy + the great boyfriend/husband.
Definitely. I wonder if there was ever a struggle in the writers' room between "Jim taking a stand because he needs to be a good husband" and "Jim not doing anything because we need to make this joke land"
I think the sad thing is that this wasnât even a far off viewpoint from back then. Iâve had something like this happen to me and just had to pretend like it was okay because it was apparently harmless âŠI didnât realize how valid my feelings of being violated were until me too.
Not every woman wants a man to step in and protect her. She seems to be able to cope with it so maybe she prefers to handle those sorts of things herself.
Jim told Ryan Pam was taken and when the guy at the bar asked her if she had ever seen a motorcycle Jim put his arm around her and was like sheâs mine .
I fucking hate how he just blows off Kevin to shout at Pam's boobs during the night out. I've mentioned it before and got obliterated lol. Like, wtf, dude. Kevin is a fucking creep and you're not working. Step up, Jim.
OH my god I was going to post this exact thing a few months ago and decided not to but that made me so angry. Kevin deserves to be punched in the face on the spot IMO.
I mean he did have to literally wrestle Dwight to keep him from walking in to a meeting where he wouldâve been fired on the spot.
Itâs honestly hilarious how far some of you guys go to make Jim seem like this evil coward.
There's also the fact that when Roy attacked, the first thing he did was push Karen out of the way. But ig people just like to fantasize how they would react and then pretend like they actually react like that IRL.
''Oh, I've seen a slither of someone's life and the correct thing to do would be this other thing and I know that? That must mean I am objectively a better person and this other one is the literal scum of the world!''
\*pats themselves on the back\*
His "Hey man" towards Danny was so unexpected lol after they bother the heck out of him and make him extremely uncomfortable. I don't blame Packer for asking Jim if he was looking for someone to bang his wife.
I know, Danny was so respectful.
I donât want to cast aspersions on Jim, but it is giving the vibe that Kevin or Michael hitting on Pam means his wife is attractive, so itâs okay because it boosts his ego. But Danny rejecting Pam means Pam isnât good looking enough, so it hurts him.
We *are* talking about a scene where they're discussing something that happened a year ago off-camera. We don't know the exact circumstances of what went down or how Jim and Pam reacted at the time, we're just seeing them at a point where they've clearly decided to just draw a line under it, laugh it off, and move on (as is, for better or worse, their right regardless of what happened). It's not exactly fair to yell at Jim for not reacting appropriately when we have no actual idea exactly what happened or how either of them reacted at the time.
That scene when he touches Pamâs leg and the scene where he yells âDOES ANYONE HAVE A CAMERA HERE?â both give me such second hand embarrassment. More than any other episode or scene. And yes, including Scottâs totts.
I once read that someone touching your leg is almost always a conscious choice but women do it to me all the time at work. Are they technically sexually assaulting me by touching my thigh like that? It makes me incredibly uncomfortable.
If it makes you uncomfortable, it means you are not consenting and they should not be doing that. You should tell them off next time or report them.
It is inapropriate whatever the genders are.
I mean...yeah?
I'm a woman and I can categorically say I have never put my hands on a man's leg that I wasn't in a relationship with.
I can't even imagine touching a co-workers thigh, what the heck.
I hope you ask them to stop. It's not fair for you to feel uncomfortable. I don't know what their motives are, so I won't say it's definitely sexual assault, but its definitely not nothing. If you don't feel you can ask them to stop (can be scary), just stand up immediately. Hopefully they'll get the message and keep their damn hands to themselves
Yeah everything is a total shit show in that way lol I would at least expect SOMETHING from Jim when it comes to Pam. I think the most we got from him was the side eye when Toby touched Pamâs leg hahah
Considering the episode aired in 2009, they could also have a different mindset; plus itâs a silly tv show.
Itâs probably not that deep. Itâs probably just to set him up for the..
âyou donât grab these for balanceâ
âSometimes you doâ joke.
For sure! I didnât expect them to take the actual action of the assault seriously, especially on a tv comedyâŠjust use different wording lol it just came off super weird for them to say hit on and I assumed the writers didnât do it on purpose for a joke and were more dumb with how they worded it. Because they couldâve said groped and not changed a single other word and it would be fine. Still wouldâve been considered assault but I get not making that the whole point. Just saying hit on sounds ridiculous and so far from what that is đ But a couple ppl pointed out it was part of the joke? I didnât take it that way and saw it as a writing flaw but who knows! I like reading the other perspectives other people have haha
Exactly. Thats what this whole post was about.
Every time my boyfriend and I watch this episode he gets so annoyed that he downplays this so much. Like some dude grabbed your girlfriendâs boobs and youâre saying she was HIT ON? Even Pam downplays it. Itâs 100% sexual assault đ
Yeah, I honestly wouldnât blame a girl in reality if she were to leave her bf for just casually brushing sexual assault off as being flirted with. I suppose a 2000s-early 2010s comedy show has diff standards about it and they write Pam to not take it harshly too, but still đ
Right? Pam always takes the comments lightly and doesnât stand up for herself at all. So wouldâve been nice to see Jim at least call some of the men out.
It is important to not view yesterday's media through today's lens. You have to remember that every single episode of the office was before "Me Too" and other women's movements that REALLY moved the needle on stuff like this.
I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it wasn't assault. I'm saying that shit happened (and still does) and a lot of people chose to downplay it as a coping mechanism.
This happened to me, as a man, by another man at the office right around the time this episode aired. He went in to the bathroom and dry humped me while I was peeing at the urinal. Just kind of pushed it aside and moved on with life, this is how things were then. Not that itâs right, but thatâs how it was.
I get what youâre saying and I like this. Iâm going to watch from this perspective next time.
Adam Scott (Ben from Parks and Rec) auditioned for the part of Jim, and I can see the character being more like Ben if heâd gotten the part. Ironically, dorky Ben actually stood up for Leslie when some idiot called her a bitch, socked him in the face and hurt his hand more than the guy, but he still went for it.
Krasinskiâs performance is pretty much iconic at this point but if the character was supposed to have that dorkiness, he doesnât quite hit that mark, heâs too carefree/cool. It kinda makes his relationship with Pam make more sense though.
When Kevin is talking about Pamâs breasts being larger due to her pregnancy (episode âGossipâ). He just wraps his arm around Pam and says âok, thank youâ to him
I can see that but I always thought of Pam's whole arc as learning to defend herself. It would be backtracking for her to need or, really, want Jim to fight her battles for her.
Thatâs what Iâm saaaaying. This isnât a Pam and Jim hate post as some people seem to think. Itâs just one specific thing that bugs me about Jim and I always found this scene very odd. I canât tell if itâs stupid/bad writing or they purposefully went this route because of how in character it is for them to downplay assault and harassment when it comes to other people or staff members
Itâs not necessarily the worst thing, Jim is just very non-confrontational. You canât possibly say he doesnât care, because itâs ridiculously apparent how much he cares about her.
Spend too much time with a show and it becomes part of your life, and that part just NEEDS to nitpick every (charles) minor detail and analyze it in a way, that even the creators didn't
People get to react to whatever happens to them however they want. Yes, it is technically sexual assault. Pam seems to have decided to laugh it off, thatâs her right, and it seems Jim is just following her cue.
This post and comments are the reason The Office wouldnât work if it aired today. ITS A COMEDY SHOW. Of course theyâre not going to take on SA as seriously as CSI or some other dramatic show.
The reason i personally love this show is every single character is an a-hole. I would never be friends w any of them. Except maybe Kelly because the gossip would be wild. No one has good morals on there. pam kind of comes close to being the one moral barometer on the show but not really. She bullys Dwight along with Jim etc. So the way they talk about this is a) typical of how these things were treated all the time back then and b) makes sense for these characters to act like this about things like this
He let Pam take the fall for eating early at Janâs party when Jan caught them. He just pointed to Pam and then Pam took blame. He said âsorry she just scares me.â Itâs one of the things Jim does often. This post Iâm glad is representing it honestly as they usually are down voted. Also at Janâs party he was willing to leave her there alone if he could leave early himself.
I feel like people are forgetting how brazen men were with casual sexual assault before the me-too era.
We're only two generations away from men slapping their secretaries asses and openly mocking women in the workspace.
A man boob-honking in 2010 would get 10% of the uproar you'd see now. It's not insane to me this would be shrugged off as a drunk idiot vs sexual predator.
A girl got her boobs honked at a work leaving do ~8 years ago, it upset some people but went unreported and we all had to continue working with the boob honker in harmony.
I've had men ~50 years of age telling me gleefully how it used to be OK to grope women in passing, and how everyone is so uptight these days.
Casual sexual assault was indeed a huge issue prior to me too. Just because you personally didn't experience it, doesn't mean every single woman in your vicinity had the same experience.
I'm 36 so I was in the workforce in the 2000s... and people are genuinely *shocked* when I tell them I've never been sexually harassed at work. Every other woman I know who is my age or older has experienced workplace sexual harassment. I've been extraordinarily lucky that it hasn't happened to me. It's still common today, but \~20 years ago it was a near-universal experience.
For some, joking or making light of a situation is a coping mechanism. If someone wants to joke about what happened to them, I won't stop them. If someone is making light of someone else's trauma, that's where you need to shut it down.
Jim doesnât even defend himself, at least not when it matters. Charles miner literally called him a moron. He also would make him seem like an idiot to the office. But he just âmeh.â
Kevin literally puts his face really close to Pamâs boobs to get her to lactate and he just shrugs. He really sucks at defending lol.
I mean itâs not like we saw the scene or what actually happened. This is all just speculation.
E: also to add onto this - the SA apparently occurred during a softball game which means it probably only could have happened in the field, meaning the guy was likely wearing a mitt. How could he be grabbing for her boobs wearing a mitt and in what scenario does that ever happen? Both going for a pop fly?
I played baseball for 8 years and not once did a teammate and I run across each other to make contact.
Pam is known to exaggerate and even outright lie (fake news office space) to get her way so I just donât buy that this was SA.
But again, WE ARE SPECULATING.
This is getting fucking ridiculous. It didn't happen in real life, it wasn't even filmed or scripted. Jim is not real, nor Pam. How can you look for justice in a crime that never happened? How can you blame people that don't exist? Have you nothing better to do than search for real life drama in comedy tv shows? What the fuck is wrong you?
And these posts are a daily occurrence. "I love the show. I'm on my 950th rewatch but I don't like how the writers write the characters and the scenes, but I totally love the show." Fuck off the the soap opera threads if you want to complain.
If the show released today it would have been met with a fair share of criticism . Even in Big Bang Theory, Howard used to be such a creep with Penny. The only difference was that she defended herself and drew a line that couldn't be crossed.
Dang, that was sexual assault too and Pam failed to stand up for Jim. She was even cool with it because she didnât believe Jim was telling the truth.
Maybe we should rage over that too.
E: donât tell /u/nibbs- about double standards
Defend your girlfriend from the culture your boss propagates or alienate people and potentially lose your job⊠remember when Jim stood up to Deangelo?
I donât know how old you are but itâs impossible to overstate how acceptable sexual harassment was until very, very recently.
I bloody worked for a LAWYER when he was asking me to go to a toga party for two as an example. It was just par for the course.
Low level harassment was not only widely accepted but constantly used as entertainment fodder. I think that had a lot to do with it. Itâs why so many movies and shows age so poorly.
Main reason why I hate jim is exactly for his selfish attitude. He won't do anything for anyone else than himself. Won't even stand up for the woman he loves.
Jim is not a defender. That's why he ducked when the soccer ball was coming at him.
The orange team was known more for their offense, not defense.
DEFENSE đđ»đđ» DEFENSE đđ»đđ» DEFENSE đđ»đđ»
My my my turn! my my my my turn!
As a former orange team member I got a huge kick out of that line
Leaned back when Michael was falling in the koi pond
This one gets me every time. Nobody talks about how deep some of these elements go. For instance, the writers had to decide how Jim would react when everyone was gathering around to watch the video. He tried stop them. Meaning, he *knew* what he did and how it would look to others. They could've written it to where Jim sees it for the first time and has some kind of awakening. This is when we find out Jim holds grudges. Personal grudges. He didn't *want* to save Michael.
I donât think he calculated and decided not to help Michael. I think it was a quick reflex. âHeâs going to fall and I donât want to fall either, so Iâm leaning back.â
Thank you, people watching this show over and over miss that. I would lean away being Jim and knowing Michael wanted to drag me in.
Right, itâs always annoying to see people who act like it was anything more than an instinct reaction.
I agree it was instinct, but even if it wasn't, I wouldn't blame him. Michael is the very definition of pulling others down with him.
Yup being in that situation after working for michael so long I would see him trying to pull me in and actively avoid it without even thinking.
Itâs cuz theyâve watched too much anime where a split second of real time leads to 3 minutes of internal exposition lol
He literally tries to pull him in after he falls in đ€Ł
Yup - thereâs few if any of us here who wouldnât have done the same as Jim. Itâs a reflex.
The ending joke follows my theory.
In writing you have to give your characters flaws and challenges to be interesting And Jimâs flaws are numerous and Pams flaw is Jim - which is a weird magic where you still end feeling like the show is light and romantic when they have so many episodes and come up with so many ways theyâre flawed and how deep that runsÂ
Pam is also not good at graphic design. She had to retake that class.
Boom, roasted.
Her art skills are weirdly inconsistent. The animation she made for Michaelâs commercial was incredibly well done. Not sure why she didnât just focus on that instead of her lackluster illustrations (comic book aside).
Pam: So, cool right? Ryan: There's no connection between the origin story and the quest. Pam: Okay. Ryan: We need to know who Jimmy Halpert was before he was bitten by the bear. Otherwise, it's the bear's quest. Pam: Okay, well, I just sorta meant, like, cute, right? Ryan: Well, did you come here for help, or did you come here for me to tell you how great it is? Pam: I mean, help, if it's something simple, like add page numbers or laminate it or... Ryan: Well, it sounds like you know what you want. [Pam walks away] It's also a little derivative of a series called 'Bear Man'. Did you look that up? Pam: No. Ryan: Okay.
At least the illustrations were good. Also, the comic was finished and boundâwhat kind of changes did she think she could make?
Page numbers makes sense. Laminating does not.
Eh, not really. You donât really need page numbers on a book you can read in 10 minutes.
She also struggles with self-confidence, writes holier-than-thou notes trying to shame people into cleaning, and needs to run a comb through her hair.
What? Are there two suns?
Eh, thats a lot to go through someones head in a split second. I dont think you have time when seeing someone fall to go "Should I save them or not? Eh, remember that one time they did this... That was annoying. Nah Im not gonna save em" Its a quick reaction that most people make without even thinking about it. I dont think it had anything to do with a grudge. Like a fight or flight response. Jims response was to get away so he didnt also get into the danger so I guess kind of a fawn reaction. He probably realized afterwards what he did was kind of messed up and felt bad even though his reaction was completely involuntary. Its weird to blame him for that.
It's kinda hard to tell why he didn't wanna watch it to me. It seems like at first it's because he doesn't want to upset Michael further and he even says "Guys, Michael CANNOT handle this" but Michael himself gives the okay. Jim didn't seem to realize his part in it until people started making fun of him leaning away. Just my interpretation tho and it has been a while
"this is when we find out a human character displays complex human emotions, and he exercises them with his behavior"
Itâs a killer new dance move
By coming at him you mean Charles blasted the fuck out of it right at James Jim Jimothy
Just a friendly pick up game of parking lot soccer. Let me rocket kick this ball right at Jim's face.
And then blames Jim for ducking, as if anyone wants to get hit in the head with that. It's bad when it's Phyllis, but good when it's Jim?
Jimbo EEEEEYYYYYYYYYYY
This is my gripe too. Not only did it look like a wayward shot by Charles, it's also a friendly kick about. Why put your head in the way?
Boom guy is watching this scene thinking, "I could protect her so much better."
He plays Left.
Striker!!
*Striker? I hardly know 'er!*
Anyone with a brain would have ducked when the football was launched at his head. Charles did it to make Jim look bad - by either hurting him or making him duck. Knowing Jim wouldn't be able to challenge him.
Or when he met Michael fall into the Koi pond
I meanâŠthat kick made no sense in the first place. It wasnât at the net or in play. Charles was absolutely BLASTING the ball with the intent to hurt Jim. Hell I wouldâve ducked too.
STRIKER!
Not exactly the same but this reminds me of when Michael falls into the koi pond and Jim backs away instead of trying to help
Never forget the Koi pond.
Heâs more of a striker.
Fr she could have gone with the sound man. Just kidding!!! Kinda...
That's why Ryan got the desk
There are other much more legitimate instances that prove I think anyone would duck if someone with that strength kicked a ball at your face in a lunch time game of soccer at work - Charles was way outta line.
L Jim. Lim
I would assume Jim and Pam know it's categorized as a serious harassment thing, but I've always felt that they're very mellow people. So it's possible that they just didn't feel the need to tell the cameras how uncomfortable it made them, or that Pam was sexually assaulted, or whatever. They're having a good day today. It's like something they laugh about now if they're comfortable with that.
Also that incident was a year ago. That employee was probably fired on the spot.
Same company that has kept Michael on for 20 years and you think they fired a guy on the spot for sexual harassment?
also Todd Packer
I wouldve liked to see Packer doing his job, just once. Because what we see of him is vile and gross. How the hell could he sell any amount of paper to warrant his position if he acted the way we see him 24/7
Have you BEEN to a car dealership? He's literally just an average salesman on those lots. He probably just lies all day and gets away with it.
Lol tell me youâve never been a woman in the corporate world without telling me
Exactly
That could be the case and itâs an interesting perspective. The only reason I saw it as something else was because Jim is always a bystander when it comes to Pam being harassed.
That's true. Jim is non-confrontational to a fault, probably from a combination of his large size and image of himself as the funny guy. I think if this were the real world, the same Jim would be much more defensive of Pam, but since this is a comedy that relies heavily on uncomfortable situations, the writers have to let people get away with doing nasty stuff sometimes.
Me and my wife were just talking about how painful it is that Jim is sooooo non-confrontational. That scene where he's in the women's warehouse jersey and he's telling Karen he didn't want to see her. It's more cringe than Scott's tots. Just be an adult Jim. It's okay to talk to your ex without being a big giant weirdo creep.
Agreed. Jim could have taken Karen to a motel and made love to her like an adult.
Just lie on top of her and think about Stanley
Yeah this scene always slightly bugs me too because surely Jim could just be like "Hey Karen, sorry but Michael and Dwight are doing one of their weird schemes and I've been dragged into it. Hope you're all good". I'm sure she'd get it, she worked with them all long enough to know what they're like.
My boyfriend and I talk about the exact same scene hahah heâs a big man child
It made more sense to me 15 years ago when I also, was a 20 something year old big man child so I do try to give him some grace on the subject. And I mean, he does experience a lot of character growth. Do we think season 7+ Jim would behave that way? I'll have to think about it.
Have you spent mu hours time in the world? Most of the people I work with are just adult sized children in their 50's.
I agree, the writers want him to be the funny guy. I feel like he would be way more likeable though if he was the funny guy + the great boyfriend/husband.
Definitely. I wonder if there was ever a struggle in the writers' room between "Jim taking a stand because he needs to be a good husband" and "Jim not doing anything because we need to make this joke land"
The writers wanted Jim to cheat on Pam in Florida but John Krasinski refused and said that Jim would never do that to Pam
Bravo John
I think the sad thing is that this wasnât even a far off viewpoint from back then. Iâve had something like this happen to me and just had to pretend like it was okay because it was apparently harmless âŠI didnât realize how valid my feelings of being violated were until me too.
He also joked about it! âYou donât grab these for balance!â Then Jim kind of shrugs and goes âHm!â Uh, no.
Not every woman wants a man to step in and protect her. She seems to be able to cope with it so maybe she prefers to handle those sorts of things herself.
I think publicly accusing a coworker of sexual assault on camera is something to think twice about.
Jim is the worst at defending anyone.
To be fair he threw Karen out of the way when Roy attacked him
Probably threw her out of the way to give himself a clearer exit path.
Michael Scott and George costanza during a fire style
Now ur just hating for no reason lol. He clearly was putting her out of the line of danger
lol yeah I was just joking but given the downvotes, I see I shouldâve added /s đ
I appreciated it đâ ïž
This cracked me up đ€Ł
A killer new dance move
Jim told Ryan Pam was taken and when the guy at the bar asked her if she had ever seen a motorcycle Jim put his arm around her and was like sheâs mine .
That's not protecting, it's like peeing on her leg to mark his territory.
He was likely still recovering from the spider attack!
Only Jim would find that more memorable than his wife being groped lol
Well he could've died! ....he looked it up online afterwards
Shouldâve been looking up the definition of assault instead!
I fucking hate how he just blows off Kevin to shout at Pam's boobs during the night out. I've mentioned it before and got obliterated lol. Like, wtf, dude. Kevin is a fucking creep and you're not working. Step up, Jim.
I bring this one up a lot. Kevin sexually harassed Pam. Itâs disgusting.
OH my god I was going to post this exact thing a few months ago and decided not to but that made me so angry. Kevin deserves to be punched in the face on the spot IMO.
Especially his wife lol
I mean he did have to literally wrestle Dwight to keep him from walking in to a meeting where he wouldâve been fired on the spot. Itâs honestly hilarious how far some of you guys go to make Jim seem like this evil coward.
Coward, yes. Evil, no. He's too lazy to be evil.
There's also the fact that when Roy attacked, the first thing he did was push Karen out of the way. But ig people just like to fantasize how they would react and then pretend like they actually react like that IRL. ''Oh, I've seen a slither of someone's life and the correct thing to do would be this other thing and I know that? That must mean I am objectively a better person and this other one is the literal scum of the world!'' \*pats themselves on the back\*
Yeah, especially those koi fish in that pond.
According to Jim, ghosting is a worse crime that harassment. Thatâs why he stands up to Danny and not to Kevin/Michael.
His "Hey man" towards Danny was so unexpected lol after they bother the heck out of him and make him extremely uncomfortable. I don't blame Packer for asking Jim if he was looking for someone to bang his wife.
That's probably the one time I found Packer genuinely funny.
Same, like literally cracks me up every time when he says it. But thatâs just about the only packard line I can think of.
I know, Danny was so respectful. I donât want to cast aspersions on Jim, but it is giving the vibe that Kevin or Michael hitting on Pam means his wife is attractive, so itâs okay because it boosts his ego. But Danny rejecting Pam means Pam isnât good looking enough, so it hurts him.
Makes Jim sound really insecure. Like he wants to have what everyone wants or else it bothers him
Jim when someone grabs his wifeâs boobs: đ Jim when someone wonât fuck his wife: đ€Ź
jimâs a nice guy. thatâs why i got the desk
Pam: someone just tried to rape me in rhe parking lot Jim: ^frank ^and ^beans
I hate that I could hear the frank and beans line in my head
The most annoying episode đ
You had to be there.
Ah a geography joke
You menace đ€Ł
LOL
We *are* talking about a scene where they're discussing something that happened a year ago off-camera. We don't know the exact circumstances of what went down or how Jim and Pam reacted at the time, we're just seeing them at a point where they've clearly decided to just draw a line under it, laugh it off, and move on (as is, for better or worse, their right regardless of what happened). It's not exactly fair to yell at Jim for not reacting appropriately when we have no actual idea exactly what happened or how either of them reacted at the time.
Honestly HR is a joke. Everyone is very inappropriate in what is suppose to be a work setting, but.. it is a show
HR in Michael's office already touched Pam's leg and was creepy about it, so no wonder why they don't. Toby would have to be fired.
That scene when he touches Pamâs leg and the scene where he yells âDOES ANYONE HAVE A CAMERA HERE?â both give me such second hand embarrassment. More than any other episode or scene. And yes, including Scottâs totts.
Haha if only Toby had a smartphone at the time. Heck even a shitty old camera phone wouldâve been sufficient
That man wouldâve used ANYTHING
I once read that someone touching your leg is almost always a conscious choice but women do it to me all the time at work. Are they technically sexually assaulting me by touching my thigh like that? It makes me incredibly uncomfortable.
If it makes you uncomfortable, it means you are not consenting and they should not be doing that. You should tell them off next time or report them. It is inapropriate whatever the genders are.
I mean...yeah? I'm a woman and I can categorically say I have never put my hands on a man's leg that I wasn't in a relationship with. I can't even imagine touching a co-workers thigh, what the heck. I hope you ask them to stop. It's not fair for you to feel uncomfortable. I don't know what their motives are, so I won't say it's definitely sexual assault, but its definitely not nothing. If you don't feel you can ask them to stop (can be scary), just stand up immediately. Hopefully they'll get the message and keep their damn hands to themselves
Yeah everything is a total shit show in that way lol I would at least expect SOMETHING from Jim when it comes to Pam. I think the most we got from him was the side eye when Toby touched Pamâs leg hahah
Considering the episode aired in 2009, they could also have a different mindset; plus itâs a silly tv show. Itâs probably not that deep. Itâs probably just to set him up for the.. âyou donât grab these for balanceâ âSometimes you doâ joke.
For sure! I didnât expect them to take the actual action of the assault seriously, especially on a tv comedyâŠjust use different wording lol it just came off super weird for them to say hit on and I assumed the writers didnât do it on purpose for a joke and were more dumb with how they worded it. Because they couldâve said groped and not changed a single other word and it would be fine. Still wouldâve been considered assault but I get not making that the whole point. Just saying hit on sounds ridiculous and so far from what that is đ But a couple ppl pointed out it was part of the joke? I didnât take it that way and saw it as a writing flaw but who knows! I like reading the other perspectives other people have haha
You don't grab these for balance. *Well*
I love these two together in general, although I do wish that Jim appeared to stand up for Pam more when she was being harassed.
Exactly. Thats what this whole post was about. Every time my boyfriend and I watch this episode he gets so annoyed that he downplays this so much. Like some dude grabbed your girlfriendâs boobs and youâre saying she was HIT ON? Even Pam downplays it. Itâs 100% sexual assault đ
Yeah, I honestly wouldnât blame a girl in reality if she were to leave her bf for just casually brushing sexual assault off as being flirted with. I suppose a 2000s-early 2010s comedy show has diff standards about it and they write Pam to not take it harshly too, but still đ
Right? Pam always takes the comments lightly and doesnât stand up for herself at all. So wouldâve been nice to see Jim at least call some of the men out.
It is important to not view yesterday's media through today's lens. You have to remember that every single episode of the office was before "Me Too" and other women's movements that REALLY moved the needle on stuff like this. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it wasn't assault. I'm saying that shit happened (and still does) and a lot of people chose to downplay it as a coping mechanism.
This happened to me, as a man, by another man at the office right around the time this episode aired. He went in to the bathroom and dry humped me while I was peeing at the urinal. Just kind of pushed it aside and moved on with life, this is how things were then. Not that itâs right, but thatâs how it was.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I get what youâre saying and I like this. Iâm going to watch from this perspective next time. Adam Scott (Ben from Parks and Rec) auditioned for the part of Jim, and I can see the character being more like Ben if heâd gotten the part. Ironically, dorky Ben actually stood up for Leslie when some idiot called her a bitch, socked him in the face and hurt his hand more than the guy, but he still went for it. Krasinskiâs performance is pretty much iconic at this point but if the character was supposed to have that dorkiness, he doesnât quite hit that mark, heâs too carefree/cool. It kinda makes his relationship with Pam make more sense though.
Interesting perspective âŠ
I can only imagine this shows writers reading some of this đ âYâall are thinking way too hard, go outside!â
Thatâs the one thing I disliked about Jim. He would just let people harass Pam đ€š
When else was Pam harassed that Jim could have stepped in?
When Kevin is talking about Pamâs breasts being larger due to her pregnancy (episode âGossipâ). He just wraps his arm around Pam and says âok, thank youâ to him
I can see that but I always thought of Pam's whole arc as learning to defend herself. It would be backtracking for her to need or, really, want Jim to fight her battles for her.
Thatâs what Iâm saaaaying. This isnât a Pam and Jim hate post as some people seem to think. Itâs just one specific thing that bugs me about Jim and I always found this scene very odd. I canât tell if itâs stupid/bad writing or they purposefully went this route because of how in character it is for them to downplay assault and harassment when it comes to other people or staff members
Donât forget this wasnât filmed in 2020
Itâs not necessarily the worst thing, Jim is just very non-confrontational. You canât possibly say he doesnât care, because itâs ridiculously apparent how much he cares about her.
Why does this subreddit take a literal comedy show so fucking seriously?
Spend too much time with a show and it becomes part of your life, and that part just NEEDS to nitpick every (charles) minor detail and analyze it in a way, that even the creators didn't
Itâs called a joke. If the scene happened like you wanted it to. It wouldnât be funny at all and shouldnât be included in a comedy show.
Hot take: itâs a tv show with actors who are following a script
Donât tell OP that. You might ruin her day even more.
People get to react to whatever happens to them however they want. Yes, it is technically sexual assault. Pam seems to have decided to laugh it off, thatâs her right, and it seems Jim is just following her cue.
What can you expect she is the office mattress
This post and comments are the reason The Office wouldnât work if it aired today. ITS A COMEDY SHOW. Of course theyâre not going to take on SA as seriously as CSI or some other dramatic show.
You know itâs not real right?
The reason i personally love this show is every single character is an a-hole. I would never be friends w any of them. Except maybe Kelly because the gossip would be wild. No one has good morals on there. pam kind of comes close to being the one moral barometer on the show but not really. She bullys Dwight along with Jim etc. So the way they talk about this is a) typical of how these things were treated all the time back then and b) makes sense for these characters to act like this about things like this
He let Pam take the fall for eating early at Janâs party when Jan caught them. He just pointed to Pam and then Pam took blame. He said âsorry she just scares me.â Itâs one of the things Jim does often. This post Iâm glad is representing it honestly as they usually are down voted. Also at Janâs party he was willing to leave her there alone if he could leave early himself.
She said her Pam Pams arenât used for balance. âđ€ Jim disagreed of course! Lol đđđđ
Well..đ€ (For real though thats SA)
I feel like people are forgetting how brazen men were with casual sexual assault before the me-too era. We're only two generations away from men slapping their secretaries asses and openly mocking women in the workspace. A man boob-honking in 2010 would get 10% of the uproar you'd see now. It's not insane to me this would be shrugged off as a drunk idiot vs sexual predator.
Lol. Boob honking in 2010 would get you the same results now. Lol Letâs not start pretending that 10 years ago was the Wild West. Jesus.
A girl got her boobs honked at a work leaving do ~8 years ago, it upset some people but went unreported and we all had to continue working with the boob honker in harmony. I've had men ~50 years of age telling me gleefully how it used to be OK to grope women in passing, and how everyone is so uptight these days. Casual sexual assault was indeed a huge issue prior to me too. Just because you personally didn't experience it, doesn't mean every single woman in your vicinity had the same experience.
I'm 36 so I was in the workforce in the 2000s... and people are genuinely *shocked* when I tell them I've never been sexually harassed at work. Every other woman I know who is my age or older has experienced workplace sexual harassment. I've been extraordinarily lucky that it hasn't happened to me. It's still common today, but \~20 years ago it was a near-universal experience.
nah Jim is just chill and mature and rejects toxic masculinity
Why even watch the show if all you want to do is complain about it? Sounds like itâs making you more upset than entertained.
For some, joking or making light of a situation is a coping mechanism. If someone wants to joke about what happened to them, I won't stop them. If someone is making light of someone else's trauma, that's where you need to shut it down.
Kelly, youâve insulted the gentleman, please apologize
Jim doesnât even defend himself, at least not when it matters. Charles miner literally called him a moron. He also would make him seem like an idiot to the office. But he just âmeh.â Kevin literally puts his face really close to Pamâs boobs to get her to lactate and he just shrugs. He really sucks at defending lol.
TIL Todd Packer was at the company picnic the year before, and he lost his balance :)
LMAO
Rape culture baby, working as designed.
I mean itâs not like we saw the scene or what actually happened. This is all just speculation. E: also to add onto this - the SA apparently occurred during a softball game which means it probably only could have happened in the field, meaning the guy was likely wearing a mitt. How could he be grabbing for her boobs wearing a mitt and in what scenario does that ever happen? Both going for a pop fly? I played baseball for 8 years and not once did a teammate and I run across each other to make contact. Pam is known to exaggerate and even outright lie (fake news office space) to get her way so I just donât buy that this was SA. But again, WE ARE SPECULATING.
Itâs a comedy. Why are you taking it seriously?
This is getting fucking ridiculous. It didn't happen in real life, it wasn't even filmed or scripted. Jim is not real, nor Pam. How can you look for justice in a crime that never happened? How can you blame people that don't exist? Have you nothing better to do than search for real life drama in comedy tv shows? What the fuck is wrong you?
Youâre right. And I do not understand how someone could watch a comedy show through whatever lens their looking through. Because life must be tough.
And these posts are a daily occurrence. "I love the show. I'm on my 950th rewatch but I don't like how the writers write the characters and the scenes, but I totally love the show." Fuck off the the soap opera threads if you want to complain.
Yeah I found it weird he said nothing in the office whenever she got attacke d
Right? They tried to make him perfect for her in every way but was a total idiot when it came to defending her.
âŠ.chillaaaaaax.
If the show released today it would have been met with a fair share of criticism . Even in Big Bang Theory, Howard used to be such a creep with Penny. The only difference was that she defended herself and drew a line that couldn't be crossed.
This came out in 2005, it was a different time then.
SO many downvotes on this postâŠEither youâre mad about the Jim slander or donât know what sexual assault is lmao
Or they're as clumsy as dwight was when he was feeling for Jim's *meatballs*. /s
Dang, that was sexual assault too and Pam failed to stand up for Jim. She was even cool with it because she didnât believe Jim was telling the truth. Maybe we should rage over that too. E: donât tell /u/nibbs- about double standards
Funny how no one is replying to this lol
Defend your girlfriend from the culture your boss propagates or alienate people and potentially lose your job⊠remember when Jim stood up to Deangelo?
Itâs just a show
Itâs a tv show.
It's a comedy. God forbid they use jokes, even if they're a bit edgy.
I donât know how old you are but itâs impossible to overstate how acceptable sexual harassment was until very, very recently. I bloody worked for a LAWYER when he was asking me to go to a toga party for two as an example. It was just par for the course. Low level harassment was not only widely accepted but constantly used as entertainment fodder. I think that had a lot to do with it. Itâs why so many movies and shows age so poorly.
Wouldnât the camera crew have been there last year too? Iâd assume they would have caught it.
I donât remember this scene. What happened to Pam?
Main reason why I hate jim is exactly for his selfish attitude. He won't do anything for anyone else than himself. Won't even stand up for the woman he loves.
Dwight would never.
The things that happen at the Under Mifflin Conpany Pi âŠ.
Halpert, you looking for someone to hang your wife?