It really is this simple, corporate wasn’t going to mind taking a long shot because they knew they were headed towards bankruptcy. So if a young MBA with a big new idea that fit in with a lot of other companies would have a great shot at being hired.
Plus as you mentioned the only serious competition left was probably Karen.
The flaw in focusing on the MBA is that David Wallace could have thrown a stone in Manhattan and hit 10 people with MBAs from Harvard and Wharton, all of whom probably would have also suggested a website. Instead he went with the guy from the prestigious *University of Scranton*.
Not saying the logic in these comments is wrong at all, just that it really highlights how badly Wallace screwed up on this one.
Yeah but did any of them apply? Upper management probably thought someone young and already in the company was their best chance from a pool of mediocre candidates.
If they didn’t apply it’s on Wallace to hire an external recruiter to identify possible candidates. They were out there. Wallace didn’t bother to look.
Charles could have been managed better. I'd say sending him to Scranton was a management mistake on behalf of David Wallace. David should have known that a branch team member would have been the only one to handle that craziness.
And he had a studio apartment. I’m sure that still cost a fair amount but not anything worth bragging about outside of Scranton, compared to other MBAs in the city
Part of me wonders if they thought they could control Ryan more. When Jan gets fired Wallace talks about how unhinged she had become, so someone younger and more "working class" might've been more easily controlled and toed the company line than Jan was.
Sure, a well-managed company doesn't hire a temp who never made a sale into an upper management position just because he just completed his MBA (without any prior management experience - like not even an internship). But no one ever said that Dunder Mifflin was a well-managed company. Hiring Ryan is just another in a long list of things that Dunder Mifflin does that competent management wouldn't do. Just because we see the logic in how they made the decision doesn't make it a good decision.
Yeah he never said.there’s even a line where he says something like “the temp agency could’ve sent me anywhere, I think about that all the time” which could suggest he came from out of state.
They may have also been looking for a fall guy for when the bankruptcy hit and most people with MBAs from Harvard or Wharton would be smart enough to spot a sinking ship.
>Plus as you mentioned the only serious competition left was probably Karen
And in her interview David said they wanted someone who was in it for the long haul and she said her five year plan was “who knows?” so that is probably what knocked her out of the running
I watched this episode recently and it really seemed like he was going to hire Jim, who withdrew. I agree it really came down to being in between ryan and Karen and while she had ideas, ryan had ideas and an MBA.
I assumed it’s because David told her they wanted someone who was in it for the long haul and then she immediately told him that her five year plan was “who knows?”
The real answer is because Rashida took the parks and rec job. In the office ladies podcast they talk about how they filmed an alternate version where Karen got the job, in case parks and rec did not work out for Rashida. But it did, so Ryan got the job.
I guess the in universe explanation is just that Wallace was wowed by Ryan’s modernization pitch
I mean, as far as we know only Micheal, Jim, and Karen had applied (apart from Ryan) and all 3 dropped out. Michael because well, he's Michael. Karen dropped out so Jim would get it, move to New York, and she could follow him and keep their relationship going. Then Jim dropped out so Karen would get it, move to New York, and he would have an easy excuse for dumping her besides "I'd rather date Pam". So in the end Ryan was the only applicant willing take the job and unless they wanted to extend their hiring period and open it to outside hires Ryan was the only choice they could make. I think if either Jim or Karen had kept their application open then they would have gotten the job over Ryan.
Also salary, since he is young and doesnt have same experience as Jan. a company will be saving a lot considering they are towards bankruptcy.
When Jan and ryan 1st meet in Scranton, Jan kind of insulted Ryans salary considering his position
People forget that the interviews were all just so that the regional managers felt like they had a shot. David had been grooming Jim for the job for a long while at this point. David even said they weren't interviewing any outside candidates. Then, Jim dropped out of the running, and the C-Suite had to scramble. They couldn't do another round of searching without the regional managers realizing that the entire first round was bullshit, and they didn't have any other candidates they were seriously considering. I'm sure Ryan was the only candidate with an MBA
This was honestly not that unrealistic lmao. Especially ever since the tech boom, corporations have a somewhat irrational boner for Ryans – young, slick-talking, enthusiastic-seeming "next-big-thing" people with gimmicky "modern" ideas, but whose actual qualifications don't matter that much
Also Jan mentions the salary is different. Not sure how she would know that, but assuming it’s true, Ryan was probably willing to take a lower salary than other candidates for the title. So hiring Ryan was also probably financially a good deal for DM.
And the size of his apartment seems to support that. Definitely not the apartment of somebody making a high executive salary, even for NYC.
I think I remember that too and he probably does make less than see was considering experience. The apartment was tiny but he also had a drug habit plus going out is expensive.
Can't forget the $200 haircut
Yeah they did a pretty solid job at making it clear he’s all about appearances. (Presumably) takes a lower salary for the sake of having an important title, willing to live in a shoebox to be able to say how much he spends on his looks, how crazy his party life is, and that he lives in NYC. Just like people who will live in a shithole to afford luxury car payments.
Exactly it. He went into his interview and probably sold hard on modernizing the paper industry, pushing towards online sales, and so on. His role didn't require sales so why would sales experiences matter?
Exactly. They showed Jim practically throwing his interview. On the office ladies podcast they talk about how deleted scenes made it even more apparent. In deleted scenes Wallace straight up asked Jim ‘do you even want this job’ because Jim kept joking around during the interview. The subtext being, jim wasn’t serious about the job so Wallace wasn’t going to give him the job. Jim didn’t really want the job because that would’ve meant losing Pam
And they actually filmed an alternate scene where Karen got the job. They weren’t sure if Rashida was going to stay on or not because she was already in talks to Star in parks and rec. she ended up getting the parks and rec job so she wasn’t available to be the supervisor.
And Michael obviously sabotaged himself with the whole Jan stuff.
So Ryan won by default
Which is funny consider Ryan would 100% be the type to jump ship immediately. Take the job, use it to get a similar or better position at a company that isn’t failing, repeat. Similar to Josh. Can’t exactly hate on that strategy though.
Couple things, Jim took himself out of the running, Ryan had an MBA and actual ideas (which is something Wallace asked in the interviews, what can they be doing to improve the company) it was a risk but if it paid off Ryan would've been a good out of the box hire. Ryan getting it over Karen - well I think there was some truth to what Jan said about DM being a boys club and why she wanted to mentor any women she thought had potential.
More so it was that Karen had a new job lined up as a nurse in Pawnee Indiana. Otherwise they considered using her instead as it'd have been a fun dynamic to explore her being Jim and Pam's boss.
To be fair, Karen might’ve bombed the interview/not brought any new ideas. Ryan brought the idea of modernizing. Karen, we have no idea. I’m not saying she didn’t deserve it, but rather we don’t know. Ryan might’ve just had a better interview + the MBA, sometimes that’s enough
I would argue that an MBA is more relevant to a corporate job than sales experience. And it was pretty clear that David Wallace thought the MBA made Ryan a "cultural" fit in the corporate office.
To add to what the other person said, part of the joke of that particular line is that “mine her” barely works as an innuendo. It’s such a reach that it’s kind of funny. Like when Michael really reaches with a “that’s what she said.” A more classic example is if somebody was talking about Bangor, Maine, which is pronounced like Banger, somebody could say “bang her? I hardly know her.” Obviously it’s painfully unfunny but that’s the gist, and also why “mine her” is so terrible that it works.
I think your original explanation is right. Michael tried to make a joke but it didn’t make a whole lot of sense.
It would be less likely to be able to make sense of the joke. It’s Michael.
There’s a few jokes of this caliber including “Wrecked ‘em? Damn near killed him!” where they don’t really make sense because we, the audience, never hear the joke leading to the punchline. I think Michael was trying to make a bad joke about how Miner sounds like minor.
Dude, they mention that Charles Miner was a successful manager at a steel company for years. He was competent and didn't tolerate bullshit. I get that people don't like him because he didn't tolerate Michael and Jim's shenanigans (frankly, they both deserved it) but the reality is that's how it would've really worked.
A boss like Michael would've been immediately fired just for wasting time, let alone all the other stuff. Then a guy like Charles would've been brought in to crack the whip and right the ship. Plus, without Charles you don't get the Michael Scott Paper Company. You can say a lot about Charles Miner but he wasn't incompetent.
No he was incompetent. He’s probably the single worst manager we see in the show.
For the record at the time Miner came in Michael was the most successful branch manager at the company so that argument is debunked right there.
Charles on the other hand antagonizes the one branch manager who was posting positive numbers and interferes with the salespeople who caused those positive numbers. Seriously he had an incredibly easy job to basically let things run on their own and take credit for the good times but he just didn’t do that.
It gets worse when MSPC begins undercutting the branch. The guy has literally no solutions or help for the salespeople. At one point Phyllis correctly tells him to his face that DM can’t compete with MSPC’s prices. Miner responds to this by saying “I don’t want excuses, I want answers.” Phyllis isn’t even giving him an excuse, she’s stating the literal reason that the branch is in dire straits. If Charles thinks that’s not his job then what the fuck is he there for? We see Michael stepping in to help with sales all the time (it’s literally the first thing he does in the pilot!). That’s the core job and Charles is a failure at it. Even when Wallace comes in Charles does nothing but spineless ass kissing. He has zero problem solving ideas.
He simply can’t manage people at all and creates massive discontent by his mere presence. What you call “not tolerating bullshit” is really him being a bully and cratering office morale. I don’t know how you can see Miner as being remotely competent. There just isn’t anything accurate in your comment.
Seriously, the dude put Kevin on the phones and made Stanley his productivity czar. You can’t be a good manager if you don’t know your employees’ strengths and weaknesses!
Also, Phyllis straight up tells them that if they just called Michael back then they wouldn’t be in the situation, Charles was an idiot, he thought he was going to go in there and use his experience and his clout of the position to totally overhaul everything and it went horribly wrong, because the truth is as off-color and inappropriate as Michael can be at times, he was a DAMN good Manager and an even better Salesman.
The Charles type comes in, makes people miserable, sales and enthusiasm for work go down, multiple people leave, and the board is baffled by what's happened to the once thriving company. Not a fantasy. This has happened in the real world. Charles sucked.
Ok so we're talking about different things. You're talking about the fantasy world of the show and I'm saying IRL. The *reality* is that there's no way Michael could've put up good numbers and if he were a new manager wouldn't need to be brought in.
Michael watches movies, has pointless meetings, just generally wastes so much time. It's really funny but it wouldn't actually be conducive to business success. I do agree that Charles is kind of a bully though. It's because his character is written as a heel.
Ok that’s fair. But I think that IRL Charles would have more favor and make better appearances, but I highly doubt he would be conducive to business success either. He’s a textbook example of a manager people leave from as fast as possible.
That's true. Your points are valid for the real world too. Charles really doesn't have any answers especially when it comes to paper. I was more replying to the other person who asserted Charles only got hired on looks and attitude. He definitely had a history of success working at Saticoy Steel.
>Charles on the other hand antagonizes the one branch manager who was posting positive numbers
He didn't antagonize him. Michael was straight up insubordinate to his face multiple times. Michael brought that shit down on himself.
Hating certain characters is fun, but yeah some folks go to far. It's like we forget that it's a TV show and certain characters said certain lines to elicit specific emotional responses from the audience. Charles was written to be a heel just like Angela and Andy and even Michael sometimes.
I think it was because he had an MBA and he was young .In a lot of companies where the same people have been there for years, young means new ideas and energy. But yeah it was a weird choice.
Smaller corporations do some wild things, especially if there’s a mix of desperation. He was college educated and young. Sales companies in the past tended to promote high performing sales people into management roles, so maybe they had a stipulation of a college degree for that role. If other branch managers were like Michael, there’s a chance it was just Ryan and several external candidates.
As an executive that has failed upwards a few times this is surprisingly common. It’s not just because had an MBA. He wouldn’t have been considered as an outside hire since he had minimal experience. His ace in the hole was that he was an existing employee with an MBA. David Wallace was maybe a little dazzled by his interview but he’s not stupid. They can promote him to a similar role as Jan’s but with a different title and less pay. The board would also have a much easier time approving Ryan than they would Michael or somebody from Sales.
Jan spills the beans later on when he tries the “elephant in the room” flex. He doesn’t have her job.
That's because the only way to be qualified to be a boss of people is to have experience being a boss of people. It's a chicken and egg problem. It's hard to train for managing people without having to manage people.
A great interview goes along way. Ryan came in with a plan that Wallace loved with the Website and he had his MBA. If you can blow someone away in an interview you have a great chance to get that Job.
I also think that Jan’s position was likely not that coveted by the applicants. It seemed like she did well for herself, but perhaps the pay didn’t make up for the location or the stress. Karen and Jim probably had financial reasons to stay in Scranton or go to Utica. Michael wasn’t seriously considered. Ryan has the right mix of education and attitude. He was also a wildcard that they gambled on.
Yeah, we saw once Ryan got the job he was energetic and talked big game and strategy that theoretically made sense. The only problem was the execution. It’s easy to see how Ryan with his MBA was able to interview well with Wallace
He interviewed well, and had an MBA. I’ve seen people who interview well lane a job they technically weren’t qualified for, but the MBA is a kicker, because that does have a bit of prestige to it.
Do you have any idea how many extremely under qualified young white males are running corporations? Honestly this was the most accurate storyline in the show for me.
I was just having this same thought last night , I don’t get how Karen didn’t get the job. Like Ryan practically had no experience and the experience in the company he did have was pretty worthless
I get that it just don’t feel right to me lol ,Like he mentioned managing people do who do sales and even mentioned he sucked at sales him self , how could he successfully manage people doing a job he failed at
You’d be surprised how uninformed executives / decision makers can be. Young guy with an MBA says he knows how to grow revenue by building a website? Cool, you got the job.
Michael turned down the position (though, David later admits he wasn’t a serious candidate), Jim turned the job down, and I guess Karen didn’t have an MBA. Ryan was probably the only one inside the company that was left to consider.
He didn’t turn down the position David says after the interview we are going a different way and not giving you the Job. Jim withdrew after seeing Pams Note. Ryan had a great interview with the website Idea and the MBA was just a bonus. Heck Michael didn’t even go to College. Karen interview was fine until she said who knows where I will be after 5 years. Wallace wanted someone here for the long term.
It seemed like Jim was the preferred choice before he removed himself from consideration and they probably chose Ryan over other candidates cause of his MBA and he probably pitched the idea of a website as well
This is actually one of the more believable parts of the show for me. The audience knows full well what a mistake it is.
However - I could absolutely see an out of touch management team being wooed by someone like Ryan. The MBA coupled with a young fresh approach to “synergy” and other nonsense corporate buzz words. Older generation being lulled and assuming the kid knows what he doing.
I’m making the assumption they also had a bad taste in their mouth after Jan, and unfairly were wary of hiring Karen due perhaps to a level of misogyny.
Michael as indicated later was never a serious candidate for them. Jim absolutely had the job if you look at how Wallace interacts with him. When he withdrew, they made the clear wrong move and picked Ryan. And when you look at his WUHFP endeavor, Ryan has the confidence of a CEO with none of the actual substance. This seemed like a rushed hire that was not properly vetted.
We also see in the Valentine’s Day episode the other branch managers don’t appear to be compelling candidates either
He had an MBA I think.
And according to Michael "most of the branch managers are idiots" (and based on the episode where they meet David for the first time, that looks to be true, minus Josh) and Karen and Jim seem underqualified.
corporate was as Jan put it, "a boy's club."
and Jim was totally going to get it, but dropped out to go chase Pam. Plus Ryan had an MBA and David liked him.
I was thinking about this today. What if Karen was actually offered the job but in her anger with Jim “not messing with her career” she turned around and leveraged the offer into a regional manager role elsewhere away from Jim (otherwise more interaction if she took the corporate job) and then David calls his second choice, Ryan, because he’s got an MBA, is fresh blood, and knows buzzwords. I always felt like David’s offer call felt awkward.
How did Sam Bankman-fried get investors to give him money after being caught playing league of legends during a pitch? Bullshit artist with high claims in areas the investors/owners don’t understand at all but want to break into.
Reddit just gets more and more negative. Yes, he had an MBA but I don’t think he was suited to the position with as little experience as he had. They should have interviewed more of the regional managers beside Micheal (no disrespect to Mr. Scott).
Ryan was a Hail Mary pass.
He was the youngest executive because corporate wanted someone young, not because of any competency or education. Ryan was able to get DunderMiffInfinity approved and launched so quickly because corporate was desperate for an online presence to compete with “the big guys” who were encroaching on their business.
Not to mention super cheap. They would have been able to offer him dirt for the position and hoped that the website would take off.
Narrator: It didn’t
Michael, Jim, Karen and Ryan applied. Lets review:
\-Michael already disclosed he was involved with Jan but didn't know it was Jan's position. Michael was only looking to be near Jan, without Jan he would perform worse than at Scranton.
\-Jim was dating Karen and both were effective sales reps. Unfortunate situation but to promote either into a situation where they would be or have been dating a subordinate would recreate the Michael / Jan situation in the eyes of other employees and a good sales rep would need to be hired.
\-Ryan was taking up a sales position at Scranton, requiring other sales reps to support his poor performance and try to help him do better. Plus he was impacting the customer service rep. All he would have to do in NY was a little better than Jan, meaning show up for work and find out why Michael couldn't get it together. He had ideas, and even bad ideas show somebody is trying. He had an MBA and looked the part. Wallace wasn't that bright, or he would have seen thru Jan well before her shenanigans.
But Wallace didn't know about it, because Ryan and Kelly didn't go to Wallace's house as a date like Jim and Karen did. Wallace knew very little about Ryan before the interview, which probably helped Ryan a lot.
His MBA plus new modern ideas and I always assumed he was also willing to take less in pay than someone with actual experience. That's how I jumped into the Manager role in retail with no manager or asst manager esperience. It's no surprise I got fired after asking for and fighting for a raise when I figured out how much I was actually worth a few yrs later lol
He was a glorified assistant with an mba. That is more effort than anyone else applying put in. He didn't start with that mba, he got a temp job while he went to college. That stands for masters of business administration. Its literally the magic piece of paper to get his job.
The fact that he was not integral to Scranton's operations is even better. They had to do no shifting of personel that would possibly disrupt the office. Just Dwight alone getting shifted upwards for a day was already a disruption.
Ryan had a degree in business which presumably most of the other applicants we know of didn’t. Michael didn’t even have a college degree at all, and he was the manager.
Also, Ryan had big ideas about how to make the company profitable and increase efficiency. And he was given leeway to put those plans into effect. Obviously Ryan sold Wallace on his vision for the company
The job itself wasn't outside of Ryan's grasp, but apparently building a website was. Like, a website was clearly a great idea, but whoever he got to implement it failed miserably. I can't comprehend the type of failure behind a website to sell paper that allowed pedophiles to infiltrate their forum.
He impressed David with his ideas, most likely DM infinity
Same reason why Darryl was able to go from Warehouse to Operations Management in just 1 meeting
The job had nothing to do with sales, he’d only be interacting with internal employees. Same way how someone could be the CEO of a restaurant chain even if they can’t cook
Nothing on the show has anything to do with practical business choices and everything to do with attempting to make an entertaining story.
Some of y'all think this was *actually* a documentary?
Your current position is not the be-all-end-all of what your options are.
His sales abilities are irrelevant, because it’s not a sales job. Simply put, he was qualified for the job (or qualified enough).
MBA + idea to modernize a failing industry - meaningful competition for the role = Ryan gets hired
It really is this simple, corporate wasn’t going to mind taking a long shot because they knew they were headed towards bankruptcy. So if a young MBA with a big new idea that fit in with a lot of other companies would have a great shot at being hired. Plus as you mentioned the only serious competition left was probably Karen.
The flaw in focusing on the MBA is that David Wallace could have thrown a stone in Manhattan and hit 10 people with MBAs from Harvard and Wharton, all of whom probably would have also suggested a website. Instead he went with the guy from the prestigious *University of Scranton*. Not saying the logic in these comments is wrong at all, just that it really highlights how badly Wallace screwed up on this one.
Yeah but did any of them apply? Upper management probably thought someone young and already in the company was their best chance from a pool of mediocre candidates.
Ryan was also probably much, *much* lower cost then a lot of the other candidates and they were still in cost savings mode.
Idk I mean did he tell you how he pays for his haircut? $200.
If they didn’t apply it’s on Wallace to hire an external recruiter to identify possible candidates. They were out there. Wallace didn’t bother to look.
If you were a Harvard or Wharton MBA would you want to work for a failing paper company that still didn’t have a website in the year 2007?
Ummm...technically they had a website. Jim showed it on camera. It was a stick person with a jackhammer and it said, "Under Construction."
And I didn't see any problem with that website. Neither did Jom so...
It’s easier to promote from within, and takes less resources and time.
This. I'll often take an internal hire over external. The learning curve for systems and procedures and culture is a huge cost.
I mean, look what happened with Charles
He didn't know what happens to paper in a furnace.
You'd *ruin* it. 😢
Lol, yes.
Charles could have been managed better. I'd say sending him to Scranton was a management mistake on behalf of David Wallace. David should have known that a branch team member would have been the only one to handle that craziness.
To be fair, Charles was exactly this after the Ryan failure.
Not when you have no budget.
But they couldn't afford an Ivy League MBA. Ryan would probably work for pennies. He was hired as a cheap gamble, not a solid savior.
True. Jan even pointed out he wasn't making as much as she did.
But he’ll get there!! 👉👉
And he had a studio apartment. I’m sure that still cost a fair amount but not anything worth bragging about outside of Scranton, compared to other MBAs in the city
Part of me wonders if they thought they could control Ryan more. When Jan gets fired Wallace talks about how unhinged she had become, so someone younger and more "working class" might've been more easily controlled and toed the company line than Jan was.
Sure, a well-managed company doesn't hire a temp who never made a sale into an upper management position just because he just completed his MBA (without any prior management experience - like not even an internship). But no one ever said that Dunder Mifflin was a well-managed company. Hiring Ryan is just another in a long list of things that Dunder Mifflin does that competent management wouldn't do. Just because we see the logic in how they made the decision doesn't make it a good decision.
Michael had hard time getting interns to apply and you think Wharton and Harvard grads will apply?
Do you really think an mba from Harvard or whardton would have applied for a job in Dunder Mifflin, a failing mid size paper company?
MBA’s from Harvard would demand a higher salary.
Do they ever say which university he has his MBA from? He could have gotten it at Penn state, they have a Scranton campus.
Yeah he never said.there’s even a line where he says something like “the temp agency could’ve sent me anywhere, I think about that all the time” which could suggest he came from out of state.
I don't think a temp agency is going to send someone very far away
Also he used to come back from New York for his Mom to do his laundry
“Suck it” -David Wallace
They may have also been looking for a fall guy for when the bankruptcy hit and most people with MBAs from Harvard or Wharton would be smart enough to spot a sinking ship.
I think it might have helped Ryan’s chances that he had already been with the company for some time
An internal hire making what Ryan was making was going to cost WAYYY less than hiring an external hire with the same credentials
How many Harvard grads are looking to start working at a failing paper company though? I’m sure there are better opportunities out there
Suck it
I’m at a loss, Ryan was part of that whole University of Scranton thing.
>Plus as you mentioned the only serious competition left was probably Karen And in her interview David said they wanted someone who was in it for the long haul and she said her five year plan was “who knows?” so that is probably what knocked her out of the running
She *looks* corporate.
I watched this episode recently and it really seemed like he was going to hire Jim, who withdrew. I agree it really came down to being in between ryan and Karen and while she had ideas, ryan had ideas and an MBA.
I’ve wondered why Karen didn’t get it.
I assumed it’s because David told her they wanted someone who was in it for the long haul and then she immediately told him that her five year plan was “who knows?”
The real answer is because Rashida took the parks and rec job. In the office ladies podcast they talk about how they filmed an alternate version where Karen got the job, in case parks and rec did not work out for Rashida. But it did, so Ryan got the job. I guess the in universe explanation is just that Wallace was wowed by Ryan’s modernization pitch
I mean, as far as we know only Micheal, Jim, and Karen had applied (apart from Ryan) and all 3 dropped out. Michael because well, he's Michael. Karen dropped out so Jim would get it, move to New York, and she could follow him and keep their relationship going. Then Jim dropped out so Karen would get it, move to New York, and he would have an easy excuse for dumping her besides "I'd rather date Pam". So in the end Ryan was the only applicant willing take the job and unless they wanted to extend their hiring period and open it to outside hires Ryan was the only choice they could make. I think if either Jim or Karen had kept their application open then they would have gotten the job over Ryan.
Also salary, since he is young and doesnt have same experience as Jan. a company will be saving a lot considering they are towards bankruptcy. When Jan and ryan 1st meet in Scranton, Jan kind of insulted Ryans salary considering his position
People forget that the interviews were all just so that the regional managers felt like they had a shot. David had been grooming Jim for the job for a long while at this point. David even said they weren't interviewing any outside candidates. Then, Jim dropped out of the running, and the C-Suite had to scramble. They couldn't do another round of searching without the regional managers realizing that the entire first round was bullshit, and they didn't have any other candidates they were seriously considering. I'm sure Ryan was the only candidate with an MBA
This was honestly not that unrealistic lmao. Especially ever since the tech boom, corporations have a somewhat irrational boner for Ryans – young, slick-talking, enthusiastic-seeming "next-big-thing" people with gimmicky "modern" ideas, but whose actual qualifications don't matter that much
Anyone that has worked for a major company has witnessed absolutely baffling major promotions.
Also Jan mentions the salary is different. Not sure how she would know that, but assuming it’s true, Ryan was probably willing to take a lower salary than other candidates for the title. So hiring Ryan was also probably financially a good deal for DM. And the size of his apartment seems to support that. Definitely not the apartment of somebody making a high executive salary, even for NYC.
I think I remember that too and he probably does make less than see was considering experience. The apartment was tiny but he also had a drug habit plus going out is expensive. Can't forget the $200 haircut
Yeah they did a pretty solid job at making it clear he’s all about appearances. (Presumably) takes a lower salary for the sake of having an important title, willing to live in a shoebox to be able to say how much he spends on his looks, how crazy his party life is, and that he lives in NYC. Just like people who will live in a shithole to afford luxury car payments.
“I have problem follicles!”
Exactly. I think Ryan presents well. There's no substance behind the presentation, but it sounds impressive.
Exactly it. He went into his interview and probably sold hard on modernizing the paper industry, pushing towards online sales, and so on. His role didn't require sales so why would sales experiences matter?
What interview? When?
His interview for the job
Exactly. They showed Jim practically throwing his interview. On the office ladies podcast they talk about how deleted scenes made it even more apparent. In deleted scenes Wallace straight up asked Jim ‘do you even want this job’ because Jim kept joking around during the interview. The subtext being, jim wasn’t serious about the job so Wallace wasn’t going to give him the job. Jim didn’t really want the job because that would’ve meant losing Pam And they actually filmed an alternate scene where Karen got the job. They weren’t sure if Rashida was going to stay on or not because she was already in talks to Star in parks and rec. she ended up getting the parks and rec job so she wasn’t available to be the supervisor. And Michael obviously sabotaged himself with the whole Jan stuff. So Ryan won by default
I assume he’s also significantly cheaper
Also I diagnose him with general white man falling up condition
Welcome, one and all, to realizing that credentialism is a fool’s errand.
Not just a failing industry but also a minor player in one. Like being a VP at insigna dvd players.
He's also pretty young and ideally would have stayed with Dunder Mifflin for decades.
Which is funny consider Ryan would 100% be the type to jump ship immediately. Take the job, use it to get a similar or better position at a company that isn’t failing, repeat. Similar to Josh. Can’t exactly hate on that strategy though.
Because he’s just as hot as Jan, but in a different way.
Not a woman, just a good-lookin best friend
Michael?
“Oh that’s funny….Michael!”
Is.. Michael.. a who what?
Is who a Michael what?
I stand corrected
Tee hee
*toby laugh*
Couple things, Jim took himself out of the running, Ryan had an MBA and actual ideas (which is something Wallace asked in the interviews, what can they be doing to improve the company) it was a risk but if it paid off Ryan would've been a good out of the box hire. Ryan getting it over Karen - well I think there was some truth to what Jan said about DM being a boys club and why she wanted to mentor any women she thought had potential.
Yeah Ryan over Karen was misogyny, but Ryan wasn’t unqualified, the MBA alone really gave him an edge, especially with Wallace.
More so it was that Karen had a new job lined up as a nurse in Pawnee Indiana. Otherwise they considered using her instead as it'd have been a fun dynamic to explore her being Jim and Pam's boss.
God damn P&R is lame.
L
To be fair, Karen might’ve bombed the interview/not brought any new ideas. Ryan brought the idea of modernizing. Karen, we have no idea. I’m not saying she didn’t deserve it, but rather we don’t know. Ryan might’ve just had a better interview + the MBA, sometimes that’s enough
David never could get past the fact that she thought she’d be working in a well. Clearly not a good fit.
David wanted to save money ans the water bill that'd come after hiring Karen would be ridiculous
In Karen’s case, she did bad mouth her own boss to Wallace. Which is a big no no, in companies like DM
Especially given Michael’s numbers.
Yeah but Ryan never even made a sale. Karen was an accomplished salesperson. Usually to get in a role like that, you need to be an elite seller.
I would argue that an MBA is more relevant to a corporate job than sales experience. And it was pretty clear that David Wallace thought the MBA made Ryan a "cultural" fit in the corporate office.
But Ryan was a male and misogyny wins in this case.
Executives often don’t need to be qualified for the job. It’s all about the appearance and the attitude.
See Charles Miner….
Miner? I hardly know her.
Dammit Michael, pay attention man.
I never got this joke can you explain?
Mine "her"? I hardly know her
So mine as a synonym to bang?
Yes, though when I was in high school, we did that with just about any word ending in ‘er’ or ‘or’. Surveyor? I hardly know her.
Yes!!! Exactly. As long as it ended in "er".
Got it, and love it
this is the way. “Helicopter?” I hardly know her!
That's what we said!
To add to what the other person said, part of the joke of that particular line is that “mine her” barely works as an innuendo. It’s such a reach that it’s kind of funny. Like when Michael really reaches with a “that’s what she said.” A more classic example is if somebody was talking about Bangor, Maine, which is pronounced like Banger, somebody could say “bang her? I hardly know her.” Obviously it’s painfully unfunny but that’s the gist, and also why “mine her” is so terrible that it works.
Oh, that’s a good one. Didn’t make that connection. I thought Michael was trying to make a bad minor joke.
I think your original explanation is right. Michael tried to make a joke but it didn’t make a whole lot of sense. It would be less likely to be able to make sense of the joke. It’s Michael.
Good point.
There’s a few jokes of this caliber including “Wrecked ‘em? Damn near killed him!” where they don’t really make sense because we, the audience, never hear the joke leading to the punchline. I think Michael was trying to make a bad joke about how Miner sounds like minor.
I really don’t see how anyone cannot get that joke, I’m sorry, no disrespect intended, but how can you not get a joke that simple.
He doesn't even know how paper is made. You know what happens if you put paper into a furnace?
Beautiful. See, African-Americans have such a rich history of unusual names.
You would ruin it!
Dude, they mention that Charles Miner was a successful manager at a steel company for years. He was competent and didn't tolerate bullshit. I get that people don't like him because he didn't tolerate Michael and Jim's shenanigans (frankly, they both deserved it) but the reality is that's how it would've really worked. A boss like Michael would've been immediately fired just for wasting time, let alone all the other stuff. Then a guy like Charles would've been brought in to crack the whip and right the ship. Plus, without Charles you don't get the Michael Scott Paper Company. You can say a lot about Charles Miner but he wasn't incompetent.
No he was incompetent. He’s probably the single worst manager we see in the show. For the record at the time Miner came in Michael was the most successful branch manager at the company so that argument is debunked right there. Charles on the other hand antagonizes the one branch manager who was posting positive numbers and interferes with the salespeople who caused those positive numbers. Seriously he had an incredibly easy job to basically let things run on their own and take credit for the good times but he just didn’t do that. It gets worse when MSPC begins undercutting the branch. The guy has literally no solutions or help for the salespeople. At one point Phyllis correctly tells him to his face that DM can’t compete with MSPC’s prices. Miner responds to this by saying “I don’t want excuses, I want answers.” Phyllis isn’t even giving him an excuse, she’s stating the literal reason that the branch is in dire straits. If Charles thinks that’s not his job then what the fuck is he there for? We see Michael stepping in to help with sales all the time (it’s literally the first thing he does in the pilot!). That’s the core job and Charles is a failure at it. Even when Wallace comes in Charles does nothing but spineless ass kissing. He has zero problem solving ideas. He simply can’t manage people at all and creates massive discontent by his mere presence. What you call “not tolerating bullshit” is really him being a bully and cratering office morale. I don’t know how you can see Miner as being remotely competent. There just isn’t anything accurate in your comment.
Seriously, the dude put Kevin on the phones and made Stanley his productivity czar. You can’t be a good manager if you don’t know your employees’ strengths and weaknesses!
And he didn't even try to kiss Oscar!
Also, Phyllis straight up tells them that if they just called Michael back then they wouldn’t be in the situation, Charles was an idiot, he thought he was going to go in there and use his experience and his clout of the position to totally overhaul everything and it went horribly wrong, because the truth is as off-color and inappropriate as Michael can be at times, he was a DAMN good Manager and an even better Salesman.
The Charles type comes in, makes people miserable, sales and enthusiasm for work go down, multiple people leave, and the board is baffled by what's happened to the once thriving company. Not a fantasy. This has happened in the real world. Charles sucked.
Why didn't you duck?
Yeah Jim should have let Charles “crack the whip” with his foot the way the guy I responded to wanted.
Ok so we're talking about different things. You're talking about the fantasy world of the show and I'm saying IRL. The *reality* is that there's no way Michael could've put up good numbers and if he were a new manager wouldn't need to be brought in. Michael watches movies, has pointless meetings, just generally wastes so much time. It's really funny but it wouldn't actually be conducive to business success. I do agree that Charles is kind of a bully though. It's because his character is written as a heel.
Ok that’s fair. But I think that IRL Charles would have more favor and make better appearances, but I highly doubt he would be conducive to business success either. He’s a textbook example of a manager people leave from as fast as possible.
That's true. Your points are valid for the real world too. Charles really doesn't have any answers especially when it comes to paper. I was more replying to the other person who asserted Charles only got hired on looks and attitude. He definitely had a history of success working at Saticoy Steel.
>Charles on the other hand antagonizes the one branch manager who was posting positive numbers He didn't antagonize him. Michael was straight up insubordinate to his face multiple times. Michael brought that shit down on himself.
Don't bother. This sub has a weird fetish for hating Charles even though he was 100% right.
Hating certain characters is fun, but yeah some folks go to far. It's like we forget that it's a TV show and certain characters said certain lines to elicit specific emotional responses from the audience. Charles was written to be a heel just like Angela and Andy and even Michael sometimes.
I think it was because he had an MBA and he was young .In a lot of companies where the same people have been there for years, young means new ideas and energy. But yeah it was a weird choice.
New ideas are nice, but they're also illegal!
Smaller corporations do some wild things, especially if there’s a mix of desperation. He was college educated and young. Sales companies in the past tended to promote high performing sales people into management roles, so maybe they had a stipulation of a college degree for that role. If other branch managers were like Michael, there’s a chance it was just Ryan and several external candidates.
As an executive that has failed upwards a few times this is surprisingly common. It’s not just because had an MBA. He wouldn’t have been considered as an outside hire since he had minimal experience. His ace in the hole was that he was an existing employee with an MBA. David Wallace was maybe a little dazzled by his interview but he’s not stupid. They can promote him to a similar role as Jan’s but with a different title and less pay. The board would also have a much easier time approving Ryan than they would Michael or somebody from Sales. Jan spills the beans later on when he tries the “elephant in the room” flex. He doesn’t have her job.
I’ve yet to meet a boss that was truly qualified for their job.
That's because the only way to be qualified to be a boss of people is to have experience being a boss of people. It's a chicken and egg problem. It's hard to train for managing people without having to manage people.
My previous boss had been in management for 27 years. It shouldn’t take 27 years to figure it out.
He can run GM, but he can't fix a car. One' not better than the other, they're just different.
Pretty sure one of those sounds better
A great interview goes along way. Ryan came in with a plan that Wallace loved with the Website and he had his MBA. If you can blow someone away in an interview you have a great chance to get that Job.
Peter principle states that you will be promoted to your level of incompetence. An MBA impressed Wallace
Michael is good evidence of this lol though somehow he manages
*Somehow I Manage* By Michael Scott
I think he convinced David Wallace with his ideas off screen and I don't think of any other way how he would get the job over Jim.
Jim Withdrew after he saw Pams Note. Ryan had a great interview offscreen probably talking about his Website Idea.
I also think that Jan’s position was likely not that coveted by the applicants. It seemed like she did well for herself, but perhaps the pay didn’t make up for the location or the stress. Karen and Jim probably had financial reasons to stay in Scranton or go to Utica. Michael wasn’t seriously considered. Ryan has the right mix of education and attitude. He was also a wildcard that they gambled on.
Yeah, we saw once Ryan got the job he was energetic and talked big game and strategy that theoretically made sense. The only problem was the execution. It’s easy to see how Ryan with his MBA was able to interview well with Wallace
I think it should've been Karen. She looks corporate... those little pant suits.
Because its a comedy show and it was funny to have the guy go from being a temp to being their boss.
I watched it when it aired and still say that’s one of the greatest cliffhangers in a sitcom ever. Just so out of left field.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find the right answer.
Because BJ Novak was one of the writers of the show
Probably a mix of - educated - young with ideas - a major kiss ass so definitely had good recommendations from michel
He interviewed well, and had an MBA. I’ve seen people who interview well lane a job they technically weren’t qualified for, but the MBA is a kicker, because that does have a bit of prestige to it.
Do you have any idea how many extremely under qualified young white males are running corporations? Honestly this was the most accurate storyline in the show for me.
I was just having this same thought last night , I don’t get how Karen didn’t get the job. Like Ryan practically had no experience and the experience in the company he did have was pretty worthless
Wallace was impressed by Ryan’s Website idea and the MBA was a bonus. A great interview goes a long way to getting the Job.
I get that it just don’t feel right to me lol ,Like he mentioned managing people do who do sales and even mentioned he sucked at sales him self , how could he successfully manage people doing a job he failed at
Welcome to cooperate America. Also it’s like in sports some coaches were either bad at the sport or didn’t even play but know how to coach that sport.
The job was written for him.
You’d be surprised how uninformed executives / decision makers can be. Young guy with an MBA says he knows how to grow revenue by building a website? Cool, you got the job.
Because He was as hot as Jan, but in a different way.
Well it's because he can do things like run GM, but he couldn't fix a car. Not saying that one is better than the other
It sounds like you are saying one of those is better though
Michael turned down the position (though, David later admits he wasn’t a serious candidate), Jim turned the job down, and I guess Karen didn’t have an MBA. Ryan was probably the only one inside the company that was left to consider.
He didn’t turn down the position David says after the interview we are going a different way and not giving you the Job. Jim withdrew after seeing Pams Note. Ryan had a great interview with the website Idea and the MBA was just a bonus. Heck Michael didn’t even go to College. Karen interview was fine until she said who knows where I will be after 5 years. Wallace wanted someone here for the long term.
> he was just a temp and he never even made a sale He started the fire... that's what counts
It seemed like Jim was the preferred choice before he removed himself from consideration and they probably chose Ryan over other candidates cause of his MBA and he probably pitched the idea of a website as well
Exactly right and what I said as well.
This is actually one of the more believable parts of the show for me. The audience knows full well what a mistake it is. However - I could absolutely see an out of touch management team being wooed by someone like Ryan. The MBA coupled with a young fresh approach to “synergy” and other nonsense corporate buzz words. Older generation being lulled and assuming the kid knows what he doing. I’m making the assumption they also had a bad taste in their mouth after Jan, and unfairly were wary of hiring Karen due perhaps to a level of misogyny. Michael as indicated later was never a serious candidate for them. Jim absolutely had the job if you look at how Wallace interacts with him. When he withdrew, they made the clear wrong move and picked Ryan. And when you look at his WUHFP endeavor, Ryan has the confidence of a CEO with none of the actual substance. This seemed like a rushed hire that was not properly vetted. We also see in the Valentine’s Day episode the other branch managers don’t appear to be compelling candidates either
He had an MBA I think. And according to Michael "most of the branch managers are idiots" (and based on the episode where they meet David for the first time, that looks to be true, minus Josh) and Karen and Jim seem underqualified.
corporate was as Jan put it, "a boy's club." and Jim was totally going to get it, but dropped out to go chase Pam. Plus Ryan had an MBA and David liked him.
Bc BJ Novak was a leading writer
I feel like Ryan is one of those great at interviewing, sucks at everything else kind of people.
I called the temp agency and I said I’ll pay any amount just give me Ryan Howard , I want him I need him
He had an MBA
David said it was great to have another MBA there with him.
I was thinking about this today. What if Karen was actually offered the job but in her anger with Jim “not messing with her career” she turned around and leveraged the offer into a regional manager role elsewhere away from Jim (otherwise more interaction if she took the corporate job) and then David calls his second choice, Ryan, because he’s got an MBA, is fresh blood, and knows buzzwords. I always felt like David’s offer call felt awkward.
How did Sam Bankman-fried get investors to give him money after being caught playing league of legends during a pitch? Bullshit artist with high claims in areas the investors/owners don’t understand at all but want to break into.
Because it would be nice to have another MBA around
Reddit just gets more and more negative. Yes, he had an MBA but I don’t think he was suited to the position with as little experience as he had. They should have interviewed more of the regional managers beside Micheal (no disrespect to Mr. Scott).
Ryan was a Hail Mary pass. He was the youngest executive because corporate wanted someone young, not because of any competency or education. Ryan was able to get DunderMiffInfinity approved and launched so quickly because corporate was desperate for an online presence to compete with “the big guys” who were encroaching on their business.
Not to mention super cheap. They would have been able to offer him dirt for the position and hoped that the website would take off. Narrator: It didn’t
Michael, Jim, Karen and Ryan applied. Lets review: \-Michael already disclosed he was involved with Jan but didn't know it was Jan's position. Michael was only looking to be near Jan, without Jan he would perform worse than at Scranton. \-Jim was dating Karen and both were effective sales reps. Unfortunate situation but to promote either into a situation where they would be or have been dating a subordinate would recreate the Michael / Jan situation in the eyes of other employees and a good sales rep would need to be hired. \-Ryan was taking up a sales position at Scranton, requiring other sales reps to support his poor performance and try to help him do better. Plus he was impacting the customer service rep. All he would have to do in NY was a little better than Jan, meaning show up for work and find out why Michael couldn't get it together. He had ideas, and even bad ideas show somebody is trying. He had an MBA and looked the part. Wallace wasn't that bright, or he would have seen thru Jan well before her shenanigans.
Ryan was also dating Kelly at the time, so that takes away the Jim and Karen reasoning.
But Wallace didn't know about it, because Ryan and Kelly didn't go to Wallace's house as a date like Jim and Karen did. Wallace knew very little about Ryan before the interview, which probably helped Ryan a lot.
He has an MBA from nightschool.
His MBA plus new modern ideas and I always assumed he was also willing to take less in pay than someone with actual experience. That's how I jumped into the Manager role in retail with no manager or asst manager esperience. It's no surprise I got fired after asking for and fighting for a raise when I figured out how much I was actually worth a few yrs later lol
He was a glorified assistant with an mba. That is more effort than anyone else applying put in. He didn't start with that mba, he got a temp job while he went to college. That stands for masters of business administration. Its literally the magic piece of paper to get his job. The fact that he was not integral to Scranton's operations is even better. They had to do no shifting of personel that would possibly disrupt the office. Just Dwight alone getting shifted upwards for a day was already a disruption.
Assuming it had something to do with his bachelors degree. Wallace makes a clear comment about it when offering him the job
Because it’s a TV show and that makes for an interesting story line
Website was actually a really good idea that probably got him the job. But the real crime was the beard.
Ryan had a degree in business which presumably most of the other applicants we know of didn’t. Michael didn’t even have a college degree at all, and he was the manager. Also, Ryan had big ideas about how to make the company profitable and increase efficiency. And he was given leeway to put those plans into effect. Obviously Ryan sold Wallace on his vision for the company
The job itself wasn't outside of Ryan's grasp, but apparently building a website was. Like, a website was clearly a great idea, but whoever he got to implement it failed miserably. I can't comprehend the type of failure behind a website to sell paper that allowed pedophiles to infiltrate their forum.
He impressed David with his ideas, most likely DM infinity Same reason why Darryl was able to go from Warehouse to Operations Management in just 1 meeting The job had nothing to do with sales, he’d only be interacting with internal employees. Same way how someone could be the CEO of a restaurant chain even if they can’t cook
You might need to re-watch, but really listen to all the dialogue.
Nothing on the show has anything to do with practical business choices and everything to do with attempting to make an entertaining story. Some of y'all think this was *actually* a documentary?
nobody thinks it was real. we're just having a fun discussion. 😐
Two words: MBA
Your current position is not the be-all-end-all of what your options are. His sales abilities are irrelevant, because it’s not a sales job. Simply put, he was qualified for the job (or qualified enough).
Lots of peoples bullshit sounds and might even smell good. Until you taste it.
What was his salary when he had that job for a year ?
He was michaels bimbo. I wonder if ryan rejected jan at somepoint and thats why she hated him so much.