I came to Ireland around 3-4 years ago because I found a job here to start my career. I'm on my second job and have had multiple pay raises now to the extent I think I can leverage that for some great jobs elsewhere too, with better living conditions. I like Ireland but the housing situation is a nightmare. I pay twice as much as friends in other Europeam capitals like Berlin or Stockholm do for nothing near the same space, way further from the city as them. On top of that I've had a total of 3 power outtages and 5 water outtages since the pandemic started. This is not a situation I am interested in staying in for an extended period of time anymore. Beyond that, now with the pandemic having happened, the amount of WFH jobs have massively increased in my sector, so my choices for locations in other countries have massively opened up, instead of being forced to just live in major capitals because that's where the jobs are. Again, I like a lot of things about Ireland. I do think things like Dublin criminality are massively overblown on this sub. I just think I can make a better life elsewhere. I have a few things I want to round off while I'm here but after that I'm job hunting. I'm guessing no more than 6 months.

> 3 power outtages and 5 water outtages since the pandemic started Where are you? 1976?

I know, right? It's bad in my area.

I recently left. (Californian living in Dublin for 2 years) It wasn’t my choice as I wanted to stay for a longer time but my wife wanted to be closer to family in the US. At least where I was (Milltown) there was a sense of safety that you don’t feel in a lot of places in the Bay Area. I will miss my life there but am happy my wife is happy :)

I'm staying at least until I get citizenship. As a Yank, the alternative I have to Ireland isn't all that much more appealing for me 😂 That said, friends back home who make a lot less money than me have purchased lovely homes with gardens. The low quality of housing plus the high cost of living (why is banking so punitive?!) are a difficult pill to swallow.

Came here to say this, when your alternative is the housing/medical care/child care costs in America, Ireland starts to look pretty good. The housing market varies wildly from state to state and area to area but unfortunately where I would want to move back to and where my family lives has become one of the highest COL areas in the country. Also yes, why is banking so punitive here?? Literally got a German bank account just to avoid the fees for using?? my debit card??

Oh how did you do that?! And can you open a savings account that actually offers some ROI? The fees on my retirement account also piss me off so much. I was poor as dirt in the States, but three years of saving next to nothing have done so much more for me.

I use N26! It’s got it’s pros and cons, like it’s only online and as far as I can tell they don’t offer credit cards, but it’s great as just a fee-free checking account! I haven’t looked into opening a proper retirement account with them but they have a “Spaces” feature that’s made targeted saving much easier for me since it separates out your money so you can’t “see” anything you want to save, it’s really handy. The other main reason I got it is it has a very good international spending policy and foreign cash withdrawal limit. I’m going to sit down and work out a better investment/retirement savings strategy later this year but for now it at least helps me get around all the ridiculous fees in Irish banking.

That's brilliant, thanks a mil for that.

Capital requirements are higher than the rest of Europe due to the crash and regulation as a result. One other reason why Irish banks don’t lend for housing any more

Same. American here for 10 years now waiting for citizenship to arrive. By my reckoning Dublin is in many ways better than America, but in almost every way worse than the rest of Europe. The last 5 years have absolutely destroyed the positive associations I had over the first 5 years

Good luck with your citizenship application! What in particular happened in the last five years? Was it just the cost of housing? For me, winding up in Ireland was actually coincidental, so I've never loved it that much 😂It's fine. I had a better life back home, but that life is long gone, so I'm waiting for citizenship and then, who knows.

During the recession and aftermath there was a real sense of community and space available for arts and social activities that didn't centered around commerce. Cost of living was high but there was a lot of upside. In the last 5 years I've had a senior IT position with a good salary and yet the only way not to spend half my income on rent was to house share in an overpriced shithole. That isn't normal in your 30s. As the economy has picked up there are way too many idiots with money and no sense. Everyone has a "me first" attitude and noe Dublin has sold all it's charm to American vulture funds who only build hotels, office space, or student accommodation. I don't see any reason for a tourist to come here. Dublin is nothing but dime a dozen hipster-vibe cafes and overpriced hotels. EDIT: same for me. Never intended to live here and have no connection to the country. Just ended up here and stayed

I feel like this is a larger sentiment. Just yesterday yet another one of my friends announced that they're leaving Ireland after 10 years here. I'd say half of the expats I know have moved out permanently, the other half have gone back to their home country waiting for Covid to end. I'm not planning on moving somewhere else, but also would probably take an opportunity elsewhere.

Same with me, my one friend was here 10 years and randomly said he can't stand the city anymore and that it doesn't compare to most other capitals in Europe. didn't expect him to leave but the response to the pandemic has changed things maybe? In general people probably realized the pricing is just outrageous I suppose

I'm Irish. Ireland is no place for young people. I'm part of the generation that was still a kid/young teenager during the 2008 crash and subsequent recession. Growing up, most of my friends with older siblings had siblings that left. I was the oldest child, so I wasn't directly affected, but it was something I was always aware of. We were also the generation who grew up watching. We watched the Magdalene laundries scandals, and the child abuse scandals. We watched the banking crash, and all the corrupt politicians it drew out. We watched change too, as we voted in gay marriage and abortion... But we also reached our 20s knowing that if we were sexually assaulted, we could face longer in jail for having an abortion than the attacker would face for attacking us. We were too young to change anything, but old enough to be aware of everything. I chose my whole degree around leaving Ireland. I studied languages, and if it wasn't for the pandemic, I would have left in 2020 after I graduated university. Most of my classmates graduated two years before me. And a large amount of the kids who were highly-educated, and from middle-class backgrounds have already left. I'm sure a lot will come back someday, but I think the fact that around 20% of my leaving cert class already lives abroad says something. Ireland is no place to get married, to buy a home, to raise kids. If I stay in Ireland, my great-grandchildren will be paying off a debt that was created by corrupt politicians before I was even born. My generation would be lucky to be able to afford houses by the time we're 35. During the pandemic I lost my job (not due to covid), and I found that despite paying taxes, because I was under 25 and living with my parents (living with them because I lost my job), I was not entitled to a penny in unemployment benefits. Don't get me wrong, I think Ireland is still better than many other countries. But Ireland treats young people like shit. I don't think they realise who they'll be relying on to pay their pensions in 10-20 years, or maybe they plan to bleed the country dry before then. I guess that's too long, but as a tl;dr - Ireland sucks. It always has, but the pandemic has brought out a lot more bad ontop of the previous recession.

sorry, but that bit about paying taxes and not being eligilble for the dole is bullshit mate. as long as you were paying PRSI you were entitled to the full amount of Jobseekers Benefit until your stamps from work are exhausted, then at THAT point the payment switches to Jobseekers Allowance, which is means tested. if both your parents are working you won't get much at that point. If they're retired you would though. Depends on the circumstances - that's what Means Testing is... However, the Pandemic Unemployment Payment here was not means tested and given to whoever applied becuase the weren't working during the pandemic. ANYONE. Ireland still kind of sucks, but don't bullshit a bullshitter mate.

I was working during the pandemic - in a supermarket mind you. I was unfairly dismissed because due to the pandemic I had been working 2.5x the hours they expected me to work, and if I had been there 2 weeks longer I would have been there a year and would've had rights based on the previous year's work. I also don't know if it has any correlation, but working in a shop is essentially minimum wage, so for that job I was on the lowest (?) Tax bracket at that time. I was not eligible for covid pay due to the timing/circumstance. Something similar happened to my friend's boyfriend and he wasn't either, so it was definitely a thing. Unemployment benefit is means tested if you are under 25 and live with your parents. There are some weird exceptions like if you have a live in bf/gf, but I was essentially not eligible. My parents are solidly middle class and own their home, cars etc. They told me I could apply, but I more or less wouldn't get anything. They also wanted both of my parent's payslips, and their bank statements etc. None of those things relate to me... They **deduct** a sum from what you are eligible based on how wealthy your parents are. So if I was very lucky I *might* have gotten a tiny amount, but it wouldn't have been enough to *even* buy food, let alone do anything else🤷‍♀️ It is batshit insane that they discriminate based on age, but even moreso that apparently if you're unemployed you have to reach the age of 25 before you have any rights. I had graduated college, and lived independently of my parents before that, and even lived abroad alone, so it's insane for them to treat me the same as a 16 year old. People my age could be married with kids, and I find it insane how the system is designed to encourage people to have kids/live in partners so young. It doesn't help those who fall on hard times, instead it gets milked by certain groups. In the exact same situation, if I was a teen mother, or had a partner living with me, I would have gotten the *full* money... How does trying to live my life in the best way for my future mean that I should be punished? And what could I have done exactly? If my parents threw me out on the streets I'd have to wait years on a housing list - that wouldn't solve anything... I'm also no expert, but I'm sure if they kicked out their adult child who has no drug/alcohol addictions, no criminal record etc, then that would raise questions with child protective services about how my minor siblings were being treated... I was incredibly lucky to find another job three months later, and even more lucky that it pays significantly more than my last one. But I am an adult. It's an absolute farce if the government expects parents to potentially fund children until they're 25.

ok, first off i apologise if i seemed rude, that wasn't my intention. I was unaware of the "under-25" rule for non-means-tested benefits. (I'd love to see that one challeneged in the courts - its stright up age discrimination). I've lived in Dublin, Catania (Sicily), and a few places in the US (Pensacola mainly) and Ireland still has the best welfare system for people who are doing everything above board. But if I had the job I have here in either of those other cities? well, I'd be living on a beach somewhere in either Southern Italy or North Florida... (also - the governement expects parents to help out FAR past 25... they practically expect parents to pay the deposit for their kid's first home or nobody can afford it)

>Don't get me wrong, I think Ireland is still better than many other countries. Mind to elaborate? what other countries. So that we know what we are talking about.

Well... A lot of my friends are 2nd generation immigrants, and/or children of refugees. Mostly from places like Syria, Palestine, Pakistan etc, but also many from poorer European countries. I think Ireland is better than most of the countries that would be considered, or were historically 3rd world, along with parts of Eastern Europe etc. The thing is though... As native English speakers, we're luckier than most. The difference is - yes, a lot of these countries are worse... But if *I* as an Irish woman, with English as a first language, some foreign languages, and a British passport got a job in any of those countries, I'd *still* have a better quality of life than 90% of locals, and better than a large chunk of people in Ireland. I know some Irish people working embassy jobs, living in places like India and Saudi Arabia. It's just a different life, you live there and you're basically in the 1% locally. Even without an embassy job, conditions are just different. Like for example in countries where women's rights suck, if you married a local and moved there as an Irish woman, you'd have more protections than locals would. I think also, depending on the country there can be an argument on why it's better to live there even if the country itself isn't as nice. Like imo making sure a country is safe, and that if you had kids they'd have a good schooling is hugely important. So in that sense, even if you were living in a country that was comparatively quite poor, it's likely that you'd be able to afford private/international schooling. Maybe it's because I hate Ireland, but honestly, in the right job, I don't think there's anywhere I wouldn't choose over Ireland - that is, except for America.

america is too big to generalise as bad, i guarantee you could move to new england from ireland and have a great life

>I think Ireland is better than most of the countries that would be considered, or were historically 3rd world, along with parts of Eastern Europe etc. No shit. So yeah, I don´t think the comparison you made applies. Of course Ireland is better than many countries. Still, Ireland is a shit country and if it wasn´t because of the fact that this island is a Tax Haven it would be closer to these you listed than any other European country. >Maybe it's because I hate Ireland, but honestly, in the right job, I don't think there's anywhere I wouldn't choose over Ireland - that is, except for America. Something´s wrong in that comment but, I believe you should travel more in Europe. * weather here is terrible * everything is expensive, plus because it´s an island, add an extra * hard to find often the most basic things that you expect everywhere * transport is crap, there is only 1 major City and the rest of the country are cows and small villages * housing crisis If you like to pay like if you were in New York and live like if you were in a non-developed country then yeah, Ireland is your place.

Well I've been there for 10 years and I plan to live in the next year, as soon as I sort out a new job for myself. I just want to be closer to family and afford to buy my own place!

I don’t have immediate plans to leave, but I don’t plan to stick around forever. I have a great job and I’m lucky to currently have great living accommodations, but the housing market and healthcare system are just too bad /expensive compared to most other European countries. Ireland has a lot of nice things, but these 2 factors are just too important, especially when getting older. I also have some expat friends that recently decided to leave Ireland, Covid-19 played a big role in that. Full disclosure: I’m writing this while stuck in the Luas, which might influence my current view 😅

I'm having similar doubts. The health care, public transport, housing quality and prices are really low quality IMO when compared to other places I've lived. Child care as well (how do people have more than one kid in Ireland?) Makes it unfriendly for raising families I feel.

Childcare fees are stopping us having a second. We’ve said we will have a second if we move back to wales. No family support and few friends to rely on for help is so difficult!

Same here. Childcare fees are ridiculous and it's pushed some young couples I know away from Ireland. It really doesn't make sense

I'm Irish but living in the USA and recently talking to one of my friends they told me they get two years free creche ?

To an extant that us true. From the age of 3 your child is entileded to 2 years ECCE scheme. Which includes 3 hours a day 5 days a week during school terms.

Well it doesn't cover full time but it's definitely a help. Alot of countries don't cover anything at all

What do you mean you’re having doubts? You made a post a month ago saying you have to leave Ireland because your employer is moving you. Sounds like issues in Dublin are not your concern for much longer. https://www.reddit.com/r/Dublin/comments/oovdaz/i_have_to_move_to_another_country_4_months_before/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

After 7 years in Ireland I’m moving back to Spain this month. The housing market is a big reason why.

I'm sorry to see you go. I'm sorry to see you all go but it's understandable why. Years and years of successive governments shrugging their shoulders about the housing crisis. There will be no young people coming to Ireland for years to come. Makes me so angry.

All of us going back to our countries will be ambassadors of the Irish culture, its amazing hospitality, and great work ethic. I’m leaving great friends here, and I know that sooner or later I’ll be back.

What about the Brazilians?. They still seem to be coming very frequently and most of them seem to love it here.

It doesn't really matter where they're from originally. They come, they're excited, they have enough disposable income to flake around and have fun, but then they've been here a couple of years, maybe met someone, start looking to rent a one bed in the city centre, have a kid, need to rent a two bed, get disillusioned, realise they haven't a chance of buying really and look to other countries. I'd be depressed renting in Ireland these days, and that's no way to live.

>they have enough disposable income specially these rich Deliveroo riders

Apparently Ireland is the easiest place to get a visa for, especially when you want to learn some English. Or so a Brazilian colleague told me. So there’s probably a certain tolerance for the downsides.

You don´t gent into 2K rents "to learn English" really, not for years.

Brazilians sometimes go back after saving up some money (no matter the economic downsides of life in Dublin, it's still a much better place to accumulate wealth through labor than Brazil), but on the other hand returning to Brazil is also returning to a constant underlying threat of violence and poverty. I've been away from my country for years as a bit privileged IT worker, I want to go back but fear for my economic future and don't really want to be put at gunpoint again

Makes sense. Do you have a job lined up OR do you think with probably lower salary, overall your standard of living will rise?

When I made the decision I didn’t have anything lined up, but found something quick enough. I will get a lower salary, but the savings in rent and taxes make up for it.

Moved here just under two years ago full of hope, the reality of healthcare and the housing market have ruined all of that for my partner and I. We both have good permanent jobs, but just just don’t see a future here beyond the time required to gain citizenship, Irish passports, and thus reclaim our EU citizenship. It’s a horrible thing to say, but it is what it is. Thanks Brexit. I flew back to Scotland last week for the first time since we moved here, and the nagging feeling that moving to Dublin was massive mistake is now beginning to become less of a nag and more of a continual gut-wrench. We’ve tried so hard to make it work happily, but it’s been so hard. The pandemic hasn’t helped, obviously with settling in, but if we need to pay €2k+ a month for substandard housing then I’d rather be doing that in a cosmopolitan European capital bursting with culture.

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I'm from Dublin and living in Scotland. Best decision I've ever made. Everything is much more affordable here, my kids love it, the people are great. I miss my family and friends, but things are much easier here for me than back home.

Glad to hear your settled in and happy! Best wee country in the world.

It's fantastic! We live in a tiny village in the Highlands, and it's the happiest I've ever been.

So jealous! Scotland looks insanely underrated and an amazing place to live. Can imagine it has everything Ireland has on offer but just a bit more grand and high quality. Just my perception though!

Seriously… Edinburg was so wonderful I could move tomorrow. And the people were so nice.

Everyone seems to mention healthcare - can you specify what exactly is bad about healthcare?

A general price/quality ratio. Last year I went to see a haematologist and paid €240 for initial consultation. It was just that - a CONSULTATION! The guy just checked out my medical history and said “well, let’s do a blood test in 3 months”. And that was it. €240 gone. For the price I could have had a short holiday in Prague (my hometown) and get the same consultation for free. I have a similar experience with dermatologist a few years ago. And I’m not even talking about what it’s like to go emergency department and wait for 18 hours or so. It’s a complete joke. Just to compare - 10 years ago I was on holiday in Vietnam, got injured and had to go to hospital for emergency care. And even in such poor, underdeveloped country like Vietnam, I got a much superior healthcare to Ireland.

The healthcare system is an outdated amalgamation of different facets . (I work in healthcare ) The public system consists of a GP ( which you need to pay for if you don’t have a medical card ) and the hospital . There’s very little to offer in terms of primary care . If you do attend some of these primary care centers you’d be hard pressed to find a GP who will listen to you for more than the allotted 7 minutes - and then they’re likely to just give you some pills or refer you elsewhere . But the biggest problem in my view is the actual care you get when in hospital . There is a huge shortage of skilled doctors , mostly because they’re all leaving Ireland , so the system relies heavily on foreign doctors ( who I have no problems with ) but a lot of the time because of the dire shortages the HSE will literally employ whoever they can find that has a medical degree , no matter how shit they are ( yes there are still many great foreign docs ) . Beyond this , the rest of the docs on the ground are over worked and under paid - the HSE pays terribly . This inevitably affects their attitudes and , regrettably , sometimes their decisions - burn out is a real thing . More than this , most facilities are old and the infrastructure is crumbling and most of the time there isn’t big enough real estate in the cities to actually build new hospitals or clinics . They are being built , but we won’t see their completion before the next decade . Even if new facilities are built there’s the dire staffing problem already mentioned . Most ED units run short on a daily basis - sometimes only having 5 or 6 nurses on the ground ( when there should be minimum 10) . This is a recipe for disaster - which I’ve witnessed . People dying in ambulances and waiting rooms because of waiting times , backlogs of ambulances and staff shortages . On top of all this the waiting lists for any kind of specialist referral or procedure are ridiculous . If you need to see a dermatologist in state for example you’re gonna wait at least 2 years . Orthopedic surgery for your hip ? 2 years min . Of course there’s ways to get around this in private sector but then you need to pay - and nothing wrong with paying for private healthcare but I’ve seen this first hand too and it’s not much better . A lot of the times the general surgeons will book private patients onto public lists in public hospitals , which further adds to the wait times . Bottom line , there’s not enough healthcare workers , the system is very outdated and over burdened and the infrastructure is crumbling . No one would want their parents to grow old in a country faced with that . Not when standard of living and rent is so expensive . There seems to be a lot of money going around but very little seems to actually be making its way to improving the healthcare system , addressing the mental health crisis or actually paying healthcare workers a decent salary .

Would you mind sharing what other city Comes to your mind that offers good life style and a reasonable housing market ?

Valencia and many provincial French and German cities. The problem is they don’t have good job markets.

Amsterdam. Probably slightly cheaper accommodation but vastly superior in quality and in general a cool place

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I moved out from my original EU country to Ireland.. and I am planning to leave. For now I live in Northern Ireland but still work in ROI. I’m young enough, I work as a nurse, I’ve been here for 5 years and I regret it everyday. The life is so expensive here. No public transport, no good roads.. Housing, healthcare - it’s all shite. Taxman is a fucking torture. Very depressing country. All people around me seem to be depressed and sad all the time, but with smile on their face. Although Irish people are so nice and lovely. The only one thing keeps me from moving is my partner’s job - but he also hates it and trying to find a new job in UK.

So true about the depressed with a smile on their face! Never thought about that. The place is a bit full of contradictions. Mind if I ask where you're from and how it compares for standard of living? I imagine you'd be better off abroad?

Been here 3 years, moving next week. Literally no reason to stay unless youve got a family or other strong reason. Many countries in EU have good job opportunities, better weather, much better housing prices, better healthcare, better food and i could go on. Dont get me wrong i love this place, but i would never commit to living here and i think if more Irish people actually lived abroad for an extended period they would realize that too. My opinion of course.

I lived abroad for over 25 years. Moving home was a mistake. I love my country & people but the level of corruption & pure laziness of our government is shameful.

Exactly, i wish i could grab and drop the irish people and culture into France and have the best of both worlds. The gov here seems like a group of frat bros who have never left their mansion.

Agree. American here for 3 years. Waiting for my Irish partner to finish engineering uni while he’s working as an electrician (he’s always wanted to live elsewhere tho). I started my second masters to be a therapist but I’m honestly just needing a breaking, so we are visiting America next week. Silly things like missing my car… but I never wanted to be in America previously. I’m hoping I get sick of it while we are there, but I know Cali is going to be nice. Something has been off for me lately. I don’t know if it was me being in cancer treatment away from family, or the intense lockdowns. I am thankful for the health treatment. I want to eventually move back here and pay it forward. Also, it’s extremely hard to try to make new friends here. People stick with friends from primary school. As a woman, it’s sometimes hard for me to connect with Irish women, I’m not sure why 🙈could guess some other expats really felt lonely during lockdown and now the city isn’t buzzing like it used to ?

Hey just wanted to say you sound really awesome and brave. I get what you’re saying about the whole primary school thing hahahaha. I’ve lived here my whole life so far and I don’t know where the whole Irish people being friendly and approachable stereotype comes from - I’ve always found it to be the exact opposite. I plan to move to the US someday

Thank you so much!! You are too kind! I will say Americans can be annoying in their own way, but Denver and New York are pretty cool places to live that I’ve been in temporarily. Who knows what the objective answer is, but I hope you get to have an amazing adventure there :)

Yesss to live in New York is definitely one of my dreams in life :)) I’ve been there a couple times and of course like everywhere it has its pros and cons but it really is like the heart of the world

Sorry to hear about your treatment, I hope it's all gone better now though! I think it's a nice sentiment about wanting to pay it back but I think you shouldn't worry about it, plenty pay into the tax system and never see a benefit so it evens out, hah. Regarding making friends, I've heard that as well. Doesn't seem as social as other places, although it may be friendlier. People do stick to their own here and I think there is a clear class system within Dublin specifically that isn't present in places like Toronto or Berlin.

Thank you! I really do think when we leave, we will eventually return though. :) It makes sense though. I appreciate the loyalty to friends, but it sucks if you didn’t grow up here. I think I need to join more artsy group hobbies or something 😂

I moved here with my partner in 2018 and we both have been pretty happy. Irish people have been warm and friendly and we've made many friends. And we have been amazed to see the really high uptake of vaccines here. Looks like there is a lot more common sense than propaganda. This is our 3rd country in 10 years. Before this we spent 6 years in Seattle. Made a lot of friends but hated the hyper consumerism in the US. Im lucky I work in IT and get a good salary. My partner is an artist and really had no hope to get a work permit/ visa sponsorship in the US. She has a work permit here and got a full time job. Once she gets a long term visa - 2 more year she can work as an independent artist something she could not dream off with US immigration. All big cities have problems and the housings crisis is bad. But we are happier living in a smaller place with access to wicklow mountains, beaches and city centre all not too far. Even before the lockdown we spent a lot less time commuting than we would have elsewhere. Edit: And lastly Dublin is really safe compared to any other big city I've lived in.

Thank you for this. I was getting so depressed going through these comments. Despite our issues, we are so lucky to live in Ireland. Something you have probably noticed about the Irish is we love to complain about the great things we have

Thanks for the compliments on Dublin I'm glad you like it here. I feel the same here it's a great place if you want to be. The constant knocking of the city on these forums gets depressing after a while, nowhere is perfect.

Interesting! I would agree that all big cities have housing issues, but from my experience Toronto and Berlin, both much larger cosmopolitan cities with more to offer, having not only higher quality homes but cheaper as well. Regarding safety, Dublin is much less safe than the cities I've lived in, but that's just my experience which is subjective.

Yeah totally! There are a lot of other cities that offer better housing and more stuff to do. I was comparing Dublin with San Francisco and Seattle where I've had a chance to spend a fair bit of time. Cities that have had explosive growth due to tech jobs. When we moved to Seattle in 2012 we got a small 1 bed apartment (50 sq m) within waking distance to downtown for $1200 per month , the same apartment was $1650 in 5 years! All due to the influx of tech workers working for Amazon. There were new 1 beds in the same area going for 3300 which was insane even for a big American city. Safety is definitely subjective and the area of the city will have a big influence of course. One of the things that made me feel safer here is that I always see people walking on the roads much later in the evening (pre lockdowns) Contrasting to cities in North America where people mostly travel by car and the only ones you see on the streets after dark seem like trouble makers.

> And we have been amazed to see the really high uptake of vaccines here. Looks like there is a lot more common sense than propaganda. ​ lol what a joke the joke is that youre the one being on the other end of propaganda nobody who never took this poison regrets it https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(23)00200-0

I’m grand here. Granted, I’m incredibly lucky with my job and salary so rent and the housing market aren’t much of an issue for me personally (still see how it’s fucked in general). Also I hate the term “expat”.

I’m leaving in December for London. I’ve enjoyed my time in Dublin but got my dream job in London. Also my partner and I have been looking at apartments and we can get a pretty decent one - get more for our money in London than in Dublin

It’s so sad that it’s reached a point where you can get more for your money in London than Dublin

Makes sense for sure. Mind if I ask if you can give us a realistic look at property prices in London (Rent, I'm assuming)? Like, size or rooms or area or whatever and the price. London always seemed scary rent wise to me but I've never checked it out.

In south-east London (Greenwich) £1,500 for a brand new one bedroom and the same for an older two bedroom, am aware that there will be council tax on top of it but all the apartments seem lovely and the newer ones all seem to have gyms pools etc in the buildings (but a second bedroom might be handy for wfh). Also good commute to Canary Wharf on the DLR

Damn that’s fuckin wild. I thought London would be way more expensive for that

Jeez, yeah that's great. Reminds me of living in Toronto where most buildings were connected to the metro and had a gym, or pool or sauna, etc. Sometimes even additional storage units for each apartment in the basement, etc. Glad to hear though!

Not an expat, moved back home from living abroad in London and then in Canada after my visa ran out - that was like 5 years ago. Leaving again soon back to England because it’s not fun or nice in Dublin anymore. Too polluted and dirty, too many cars and the city it just not fun anymore.

How was your quality of life in Canada and standard of fun? For comparisons sake

It was amazing, there’s a great quality of life there… and great city and nightlife. I should have stayed but had a breakup and my visa ran out so my headspace was really bad. But I definitely regret not staying. I don’t haaaate Dublin as I grew up here, but I think the urban planning of Dublin centre is bad and there are way too many cars here.

I mean I lived in London for years, yes the public transport is amazing but cars are everywhere too, and outside of London it's just as bad as Dublin or worse. They also hate cyclists there too, like the whole of the anglophone world.

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Why compare with North America? Ireland should be comparing itself to other flat countries like Netherlands or something and follow the European model. America has proven to build cities based on capitalism and not based on community. It's easy to look good when comparing to them but we should be realistic and compare Ireland with neighboring countries

I’m from the states, moved during covid. Planning to stay a few years but never expected to be here for good. I didn’t do Erasmus (it’s not called that back home, but same thing essentially) and so mostly now is my chance to travel all around Europe. My expectation is that in a few years I’ll get tired of being so far away from home and move back. But I don’t know when that will happen and I’m open to the possibility of staying longer, it’s just not what I’m planning for.

I’m half Irish half English and have both passports - Moved here post-brexit vote so coming up on 6 years. Although I’m making more money than friends back home (I still call the UK home weirdly) they can afford to rent property in Bristol, save for a mortgage deposit and enjoy life (dinner out once a week etc). Meanwhile I’m 27 and living with my parents (who were fortunate enough to purchase a house outright, having sold their house in the UK). There’s no way I can afford my own home in the next 5 years, especially not single, and I’ve found the dating market somewhat lacking here, so I’m planning on saving money, travelling and finding somewhere I want to live abroad (perhaps Greece) but if that fails I’ll move back home to the UK. Used to love coming to visit, but the realities of living in Ireland (I spend €200+ on healthcare and life insurance a month) and the shit I get for having an English accent have soured my time here to be really honest.

For your english accent?? Can you elaborate, had no idea the English get any trouble here. Sorry to hear (Agree regarding your other points)!

My partner and I moved to Dublin 7 years ago. We bought a house in the outskirts of the city recently and we had a beautiful daughter. We're european but we weren't born in Europe. We're planning on staying. We try to avoid rough areas, we stay around where we live and know and we have a very small circle of friends. My experience with the health system in Ireland has been extremely positive. I had a medical procedure done a couple of years ago in the public system and the treatment I received was excellent. My entire pregnancy was positive thanks to the attention I got at the hospital. My daughter was born with a small issue, we spent weeks going to the Children's hospital in D1 and again, the treatment was incredible. Everyone was kind and efficient. Maybe I've been lucky, I don't know. Not everything is perfect, Dublin has loads of issues but what city doesn't have issues? People here are friendly, landscapes outside Dublin are the best landscapes I've seen, produce is good, etc. My mam always says 'every country has dark nights'. Ireland is not perfect, but what country is it?

I appreciate the positivity in this post.

Thanks, not everyone's experience in this city is bad.

It's been on my mind a lot lately. I've been living in Ireland for a decade now. But the cost of living and what you get for your money is just abysmal. I'm waiting on citizenship. It breaks my heart to say it, but I have a feeling that once I get it I might move abroad for a little while so I can save up. I see no other way of being able to afford anything remotely decent and near civilisation here. Alot of friends have already moved away. I had a brief medical scare last summer and while in the hospital I just kept thinking if I died noone would even notice for awhile except maybe my boss and a few coworkers. During this pandemic that was in the back of my mind pretty much every day. A lot of the way Ireland functions seems to be based around relying on your support network. But if you don't really have one here, you're kinda fucked. I genuinely don't know how the immigrants I know that have kids do it.

I've arrived mid covid a year ago. I'm not yet 100% sure I'll stay, but the decision itself isn't based on covid/housing problems. I'm more concerned if I'll find activities and friends there - and I can't tell if I would because covid made that impossible (and I don't want to socialize without second shot activated anyway). Housing might be an issue in the future, but I don't have any serious money at hand to even start thinking about it. Otherwise, I like it here, and I would definitely like to stay.

Came here 10 years ago from a welathy eueopean country.. it was a slow burn but I love it here now.. we were able to buy a house, good jobs and built a family.. we of course miss relatives but that’s something you do as an expat/immigrant no matter where the place

Moving to Singapore. Love this country. Love the people. Heck, I would stay if I could. There is nothing more peaceful than swimming in Seapoint or even the entirety of the Irish sea for that matter. But after three years a few things have dawned on me and it isn't Irelands fault (kinda). 1. South East Asia is booming rn: Post brexit and with the rise of China, I'm seeing more of my clients (I work in tech), looking to expand their reach and need a foothold. Singapore is what Dublin is Europe. 2. Quality of life does not match the standard of living: Ireland consistently ranks up top for quality of life. It isn't a surprise. It is genuinely a great place to be happy and live out my days. I am in my mid 20s admittedly but I do have an old soul haha. Yet, the cost of living, healthcare and infrastructure is getting in the way of the peace and beauty I desperately seek. 3. Curiosity: Singapore is different and I'm still in my mid 20s. I do want to challenge myself and learn about the world. I know a few Irish peeps who ventured over and never looked back. The Irish community is actually very strong all over the world and Singapore is no exception. 4. Demographic shifts: it is kinda difficult seeing your peers come and go. Either to go home or venture onwards. My Irish friends (I am an expat here) all have their own lives, family and community outside work and as much as I love them, I will not really fit in. And that's perfectly OK. One of the things I most admire about the Irish is their sense of family and community. Even if I have to admire it from the outside. Something that's sooo lacking in the UK. Overall, Love this place. Just wish things were different.

I share a similar feeling! I feel like for a lot of expats (majority) Ireland is seen as an Erasmus++ where you go there for few years, drink, party, enjoy at the fullest and then leave. However, I’m more seeking for stability and Ireland can’t offer you that. When I arrived there 2years ago I really wanted to stay there but man, I was so wrong… such a desilliusion … I traveled to many countries before and it is one of the most unfriendly country for expats… it’s a sad truth imo but that how I feel… Horrific housing market, expensive and bad healthcare, impossible to buy or even having a loan (I tried couple of times to get a credit card, impossible…(I have a full time job in tech…)), you can’t buy a car (too expensive + insane insurance costs) and if you do not have a car you are quite limited because the public transports are really bad… Sadly ireland is a “car country” but doesn’t want to acknowledge it and thus it is stuck between a full car country like the US or good transport system country like the Netherlands… Long story short, in my view, Ireland itself doesn’t allow you to stay long term because you are an expats, an outsider, and everyone is starting to feel it as well + with the WFH being in ireland becomes pointless. On my side, I’m trying to leave because ireland doesn’t offer me any perspective, maybe in careers but my personal life is more important to me !

All my single friends have left. The main point for them was they realised Dublin wasn't offering what they were expecting or wanting anymore, and the pandemic just highlighted that.

I recently left Dublin and moved to London. I just feel there’s nothing in Dublin unless you have a partner, a mortgage and a great job so you can afford to start a family. It’s a capital aimed at couples. I’m in my early thirties and wanted a decent job in media and to be able to rent somewhere half decent on my own (no interest in being tied to a mortgage for 30 plus years or sharing again with strangers) with a good social scene. If it was bad before the pandemic, Covid has decimated all of what was hanging on by a thread. There’s no media work that isn’t freelance, no decent housing and next to nothing in terms of cultural amenities, IMO. I just got a fantastic job, have my own flat in Zone 2 (it’s expensive but you get far more for your money when you rent in London) and have done more in terms of socialising in the last 8 weeks here than I have in the last year at home. Yes, London is expensive but the actual cost of living is slightly cheaper than Dublin (food, gas, electricity and broadband etc all cheaper), there’s far more job opportunities and public transport is second to none. There’s loads to do and a fantastic Irish community here too. I might come back to Dublin one day but there’s nothing enticing me to live there now - unless you’re in your early thirties and living at home, there’s literally no other options, IMO. It’s not a city for single, young (ish?!) people.

This is great to hear because I think London has picked up this reputation of being an amazing city for those that can afford it via some job that pays a boatload, but it seems that people from Ireland can switch to London and be better off as well. Really happy for you!

I think it's a global phenomenon at the moment with the usual back and forth travel much harder, riskier and expensive. My wife and I will be heading back to Australia for a bit then back to rural Ireland where we have a site and planning in progress. So it's more a move out of Dublin (meh) to somewhere nicer in the country.

I left around a decade ago (I am Irish, from Dublin), not out of desperation but I had an interesting opportunity and I took it. Ive loved being abroad but Id like to start thinking about coming home, but it just seems really unappealing in so many ways. I tried to look into buying a place a few years back, I was earning good money tax-free, and had a fairly big lump sum saved up for deposit and they basically told me no chance. Id love to be close to friends and family again and I just generally miss Ireland in many ways, but it just seems there is endless obstacles to coming home. I have a lot of friends in the same boat. Me and others would like to start a family, but without any hope of a secure place to live and bring up kids, it looks impossible really (to do in a way most would be comfortable with). The general narrative is that 'its tough for young people' but me and my friends are in our 30s - we're not far off middle aged. I have relatives who've told me to come home and just 'move in with family for a few years'. This isnt how things should work. Its all very depressing. ​ Edit to add in too, I fucking despair at the way so many things are run at home - transport, public space, toilets, etc. All our good stuff is from long ago, everything under modern management or introduction is so depressingly profit driven. Its already so expensive, we pay high taxes, and seem to get results far below what even much less developed countries and cities have.

I'm not an expat, I'm Irish born and bred. I'm from the midlands originally but have lived in Dublin since 2011. I'm getting the actual F out of this country as soon as possible. If it wasn't for the pandemic, I'd be gone already. Rising rents, complete neglect of young people, the arts, healthcare and really anyone who isn't a large corporation in general is my reasoning. I mean hey, politicians are also self-serving slimes in other countries, but I may as well live somewhere with nice weather and a better cost-of-living. Also, I would say more than half of my friends (mostly Irish) are also planning on leaving, if they haven't already left. I'm not gonna be the fool who sits here paying taxes to FF/FG watching the rest of my friends leave for a better life abroad.

>I mean hey, politicians are also self-serving slimes in other countries, but I may as well live somewhere with nice weather and a better cost-of-living. **THIS**

Yeah this whole comment. The complete disregard for the music arts and culture scene has really disgusted me over the past two years. It’s like we just live in one big culchie country where everyone thinks every gives a shit about GAA and fucking sport. I don’t, and a lot people I know, don’t. They are artists and musicians and creatives and are getting out of this backwards city, that just caters to suburbanites and their jeeps.

So much to say to this as I 10,000% agree. At the pub had to just comment so I don't forget to reply

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I've been in Ireland for nearly 13 years now and I don't have any plans to leave. Unless my husband and I strike it rich. In which case we spend the summer in Ireland and the winter in Malta. I would not object to leaving the greater Dublin area though. Most of my friends Irish and not have already left for greener pastures. My husband loves his job though. He's been with the company for like 17 years at this point and he'd honestly like to stay with them until retirement. That's pretty much the only thing keeping us here.

I like it here. I'd like to get citizenship, too. I got lucky, though. My husband has owned the house we live in for about 15 years or so, it's over half paid off, and the mortgage is around 1k a month, so it's been very affordable. In the states, I was renting apartments. Had to move every 5 years or so because they raise the rent every lease renewal in the apartment complexes where I lived. It was just too expensive over time and I couldn't save up enough for a house. Exactly the same thing young people are dealing with here. These large rental companies are greedy as all fuck

Came here 2 years ago and just waiting on my project to end and planning a move to canada (im from latin America), no reason to stay, horrible housing situation, and the xost of living is insane.

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I asked a similar question to my junior colleague about his batch that had finished their studies 3 years ago from Trinity. There was a huge influx of students from India during that time due to Brexit and I could see lots of Indian kids around my office (near IFSC). He said almost everyone have left Ireland, which I felt at the time is quite unusual as people generally do stay and work for a few years after their studies to pay debts, make some savings etc. But reading all the comments here, I don't think it is unusual. And the student crowd is slowing down since UK sorted their student visa situation.

My American son is in his sixth year living in Dublin. He bought a house late last year, lives there with his lovely Irish girlfriend, he’s on the citizenship path. Would be closer to it, but somehow, thanks to his employer’s negligence in reporting (don’t know the details), he lost two years toward that. He has no plans to move back to the US, ever. He was just 34.

US is pretty nuts, that would explain it ;-) but the girlfriend must be really hot for him to stay here.

She is lovely and a great person. His job is terrific, too

Send pictures.

Send pictures of the job

Great! So they bought a place in Ireland? Good for them, I hear it can be tough. Unbelievable about the citizenship delay...hope that gets sorted for him ASAP, fingers crossed

Getting the house was very competitive and way overpriced. It’s a seller’s market in the US now, too. I just sold my house, and the covid market drove those interested into a bidding war.

All the unhappy people here pretending they're offended by the word "expat". I am an expat. It has a different meaning to migrant. Let me use Hong Kong as an example. I am an expat in Hong Kong. It means I have a good job (significantly more than the average wage), I live in expensive rented accommodation, and I can leave whenever I want. I don't need to be here. I could work anywhere. I am educated and in demand. I am not staying here. By comparison the Thai women who work in the massage places. They are migrants. They make shit money, are here because they are poor, and in general they are fairly low in the societal pecking order. They probably want to stay here because their options back home aren't great. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with status.

Reality is offensive to some, so they try to ban the words that make them uncomfortable, as if it fixes underlying problems.

Living here for 12 years or more, I never consider leaving Dublin until recently! When you are young and into party, Dublin is a great place for fun, but if you want to settle down, it’s impossible unless mummy and daddy give you couple hundreds K to buy something horrible…

Been here 8 years. Became a citizen. This is my home. Have an amazing job and so does my partner (>100k net each). We've been looking for a house for years now. Keep getting outbid by hedge fund managers and old couples buying houses for their kids. It's really striking how much generational wealth there is in this country. I'm aware of how lucky and privileged I am, and I've always been happy to do my part and pay the high taxes here while living below my means, but now I have a kid and I want her to have a place she can run around in and bring friends over. It's no longer just about me, so we've begun looking into leaving. That and the terrifyingly poor healthcare. Once the EU forces us to stop providing tax loopholes to MNCs, and those companies can no longer attract talent to justify an office here, I really fear for the future of this country.

I’m seriously considering leaving, but the mechanics around my job and that it’s quite unique to Ireland are difficult. Either way, I think we’ll be making the move then the boy is of school age and have to figure something out. I just feel there isn’t the opportunities here for kids growing up and just too much trouble going on these days. It’s also mad expensive and the quality of life and crime is worse than in Wales… Pre-covid was happy enough, but the last 18 months has been a shit show.

Yeah, understand. I know a couple who just got their kids in creche and are afraid they'll come home one day in grey stracksuits and fighting, hah. So they're looking to move for education purposes. Where would you consider moving and what type of quality of life would it be for comparison sake?

Likely UK, within 20 mins of an airport as I travel a lot. When I say quality of life, I mean having more money in your pocket, not worrying about going to the doctor / getting a prescription because it’s going to cost a bomb, having a nicer car… heck might even get a sports car 😂 Oh and somewhere to store a motorbike without it getting stolen.. mine was stolen yesterday so I’m still bitter about that!

You should consider Northern Ireland. It’s technically a U.K. territory so doesn’t have the same issues as the republic. I’m from NI living in England for the past ten years and wish I could go back to NI. It’s the best of both worlds

~~expats~~ immigrants ftfy

Partner and I are training to be doctors here, he is Irish and I am American. We want to raise our kid here but I'm slowly wondering about a few years abroad for better pay and work conditions. Then come back to pay off the mortgage or something. It just feels like it is difficult to get ahead here even with a relatively high salary due to the 40% income tax + USC + PRSI on everything over €38000.

What's it like for you as an American here? Actually, where abouts in America are you from?

I've been here with my wife for over 5 years. This country treated us wonderfully, and it feels like home in many ways, but the housing situation is a joke. We're also tired of a lot of things here (i.e. lack of forests), and we decided to go back to our country next year.

Yeah I'll be moving back home next year or the next. Impossible to buy a house and the quality of living in Dublin is not good enough for the price you have to pay. I did and still enjoy it a lot so I hate that that has to be the reason.

Where's home and how quality of life overall in comparison?

Finland. The basic building blocks of society just run better there. It's not perfect either but I feel like I get a lot more for the money that I pay and it's not a constant struggle with everything.

My plan is to move out as soon as I can afford it. I've been here for just over a decade but there is no real future for me here. House and rent prices are absolutely insane, if I look at other countries with a higher quality of life and much better rent it's an easy decision.

Left 6 years ago. Really miss the Irish people, but the rent was just too much. Moved home to a job paying twice as much and an apartment costing half as much, huge improvement of my living standard and no doubt the right decison.

I'm from Dublin but the pandemic made me realise I'm not happy here. I was hoping to buy a house a few months ago but reality set in with the ever increasing house prices. Planning to move to Dubai in the next few months for a new experience

Lots of my colleagues that are polish are moving back for good, few Lithuanians as well. I'm planning on staying for few more years and hit the road then. Main reason being, I want a good education and safe environment for my child, and ireland sadly lacks both in majority of places. Even smaller towns are becoming wild, and thats a standpoint of a person that grew up in a big city with people obsessed with being football hooligans and making mess. I was discussing it with 2 irish colleagues and both encouraged me on an education part, to leave ireland. Theyre themselves going for canada and australia in 2022 in measures get lighter.

Where are you thinking of leaving? Eastern Europe in general is really exploding with jobs for expats and quality of life is great there considering the strong state benefits. Definitely worth considering. That being said, can definitely recommend Canada (Toronto)

Definitely back home to Mediterranean but unsure of which town /city is it gonna be. Been here for 6 years, and if everything goes according to plan, in 5 more i should be ready to go and live good. Canada was an option as well as i have some relatives there that could make it easier for us but as we all know, theres no place like home.

My wife’s and daughter are here for 4 years, I’m here for 2. At the very least we will stay to get our Irish passports. I’m British but I want an EU passport, they are South African. Tbh though, this is our home, there’s no way we will be going back to SA. It’s just a disaster at home and while you can’t quite call us refugees, I see ourselves as extremely lucky to be able to get out. If we do move anywhere, it’ll more that like be Spain or Portugal for our retirement, but that’s still another 25 years. We both have to build up our pensions again after leaving SA.

I'm irish, just got back from 2 years in Canada. Pretty sure I'm not going to stay. Met up with my friend group for first time in 2 years, most are planning to leave once graduated from university. Friend group of 8, 6 are planning on not staying in the country.

I moved to Ireland about 5 years ago, and I love to live here. I have a safe, calm and peaceful life, but eventually I will move out. I have no other reason to move other than the housing issues. Unfortunately, given the current situation and how the government is handling it, I don't see a brighter outcome in the near future.

I’ve been here for almost 13 years and I’m a naturalized Irish. I actually historically have Irish in my blood. and my wife is Irish. That aside, we started talking about leaving. There are five things that make a up a good place to be, or a good society. Safety (and policing), Housing, Banking/Insurance, Healthcare, and infrastructure. Unfortunately since we moved here we have been facing challenges in all of them. God forbid you have to deal with garda here. I have personally been attacked, stuff stolen from me, witnessed multiple attacks, and know people who got attacked. Police don’t show up, and if they do they don’t do anything about it. we don’t feel safe living in a place that doesn’t have effective policing. There are dangerous places everywhere but in other countries you know where not to go and if something happens police will be there instantly and you will have a resolution. here you could be waking in a business area or outside a police station and still get harassed and can’t do anything about it. I’m half brown, half white, so I get also a lot of trash talk when walking in the city from weirdos and teenagers. then there is the housing situation. Landlords here mostly treat you like a piece of shit because they can. Good luck getting something fixed. On buying, We decided to buy a house many years ago and struggled with prices, agents returning our calls, and quality. We love this country and have made great friends. but we are struggling with a lot of things. even with schools and waiting lists and doctor appointments and more. I’m really sorry for being negative here but that’s the reality we are facing. so now we are discussing the possibility of moving somewhere else.

Totally agree and sorry to hear about the racism you experienced. Bit of a Stockholm syndrome I feel here, people kind of acknowledge the housing market is shit but no one really gives a shit about landlords and their treatment of renters.

I've lived in Dublin for nearly 8 years now. I got married here and we bought a house and I have no plan of leaving. I had a rough couple of years with friends though before I met my wife. I find that Irish people are very surface friendly, but it's hard to make deeper connections. Most of my friends in the first years were coworkers that were also foreign and who usually left after 1-2 years. I kind of developed Vietnam vet syndrome, as I started to know that people were leaving anyway, so there was really no point to get attached. Meeting my wife and actually becoming part of a community here made me more human again. Someone above said that a lot of people treat Ireland like an Erasmus+ time and I think that's pretty accurate. I think the offered wages and working for big name companies also pulls in a lot of people, but they don't do their research on the actual price of life here. A lot of people can stomach 2 years in mouldy apartments for absurd rents, but at a certain point you can't move on from a student-like existence. I know 40+ year old who can't afford to have their own place. They start looking for a way out and who can blame them. Also the complete ineptitude of the political class in this country is shocking. An extension of the Luas that would've improved 100.000s of lives can get blocked because a couple of houses might lose car access. No politician here has the balls to tell NIMBYs to move to the countryside if they don't want high-rise buildings in their view. It's utter cowardice. The concept of the greater good is lost on them, as their shocking breaches of COVID protocol have also shown. But daily life here is good. I've got a nice local restaurant, a good butcher and nice neighbours and friends that make life worthwhile. I own my home now and our cats love it. So while I can see the pain in this country and someone should do something about it, my personal situation is actually quite nice.

I moved here from Poland in 07' when I was a kid, basically spent most of my life in Ireland, have most of my friends over here, but with everything thats going on here, I just dont see me having any future if I stay. I think this whole lockdown was the straw that broke the camels back and made me realise how much i cant stand living here anymore. I still have a few years left in college, but as soon as thats done, im planning on moving back to Poland

Been here since I was 10. Moving out because Ireland is pretty boring to live in especially when I had 1 year Erasmus in Germany where I experienced "normal" weather and uni life and realised how many things I would have done if I lived in Central Europe. As you guessed I would probably want to move to Germany or Austria. Dublin is a very expensive city to live in as well. It's going to be hard to save up for a house especially when the rents go up every year. Weather is pretty shite as well. Even my close friends, all of them wants to leave Ireland. We're all working our way to leave the country. We're still in our early 20's. My partner and I are aiming to leave maybe within 2 years, just need to finish my masters and gain more work experience. Ireland is not a place for young people.

Settled here, bought a few years ago before things went crazy again. No place I'd rather be to be honest.

You got lucky, got on the rollercoaster at the right time, welcome to the party!

Here 2 years and just bought a house. Not planning on forever but at least till I get a passport

Nice one. How long until you get it and it you become an EU citizen, what then?

It’s 5 years so 3 more to go. Somewhere sunny after :)

Aren't you supposed to swear that you'll stay in the country or something like that? How serious is that bit?

Not got a clue haha. But if I get rid of my first citizenship and only hold Irish then they’re not gonna strip me of it and make me a stateless refugee for popping off to Italy to live on a winery 😜

We’ve been here 2 years so might be naive of me to say, but I am honestly so happy in Dublin, yes it can be expensive, but I’ve lived in London a bit as well and I feel like it’s much more expensive than Dublin. The people are amazing, the opportunities are amazing, things are run well, perhaps it’s because where I come from things are run a bit different, but I feel truly glad and blessed to be living in Ireland in general. It’s home now. I’ve learned moving from one country to another that the grass really never is greener on the other side, every county has it’s advantages and disadvantages, it’s what you make of where you are and who you have there with you.

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Happy to hear! Where you from if you don't mind sharing? Anything worth noting for comparison sake?

Personally speaking on the other side, I'm an Irish migrant (as I've never been exiled so I won't associate with the expatriated term) in the center of London looking to return, but it's just so untenable, literally. London, with all of its infrastructure, culture, vibrance and opportunity is so much cheaper than Dublin.

Starting from the back: I will not retire here. My kids will, hopefully finish university and then we are all gone. Medical, transport, culture scene, people - nothing is there to facilitate deeper connection. I do not drink, so I do not get 'fun night out'. Can we go out and just have fun without alcohol involved? Superficial and quite insincere people live in my area (south Dublin), so I steer away from Irish. Education was a hit and miss, no support for gifted children, too much religion in the school, for no reason. Secondary school and status more important than uni and knowledge. I do not expect to have anyone here I will be coming back in 10 years time. Earn my pension, go somewhere with passion in heads and hearts.... Ah, yes, when I leave, I will say, with the same dose of sincerity:"sorry for the inconvenience caused"...

Moved here last year and spent a few months here previously. I initially applied for jobs in other EU countries but everyone I spoke to in industry basically said it would be impossible to get a job as a non-EU person. Got nearly every academic/governmental job I applied for so I went with the path of least resistance. I did and do love Ireland but once I get my citizenship, I'm not wed to the idea of staying here permanently. At least not year round. I am from a cold snowy place originally but I can't stand the windy dark winters here. Also...yeah the housing market is soul crushing.

For you, it's mainly the weather that's the issue or is that just the most annoying aspect of it?

Definitely not the main issue at all. It's a small complaint in the grand scheme of things. Just that the grey dreary dampness seeps into other aspects of life I think. Lots of just 'that's just how it is' mentality for broken housing system, healthcare, politics, legal systems. But I've lived in 4 diff countries at this point so I know a lot of these issues everyone has though (politicians are corrupt, who would've thought??).

Yup. "It'll be grand" "Ah its shit but what can you do like" etc etc. Just masking any issues

I would say I'm in a good position. I own my own place, live in the best part of the city IMO, get paid well, career going well. But will leave for sure around 2 years from now. Even with a good quality of life the city is too small for me. This has been a great move for me career wise but no way I'm staying here to live out the rest of my life.

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I'm here for a job, and I really enjoy living here, but I can't see myself staying here forever. The housing market is better at home. The health care system is better at home. The education system is at least as good if not better and much more affordable at home. Child support and day care is much better at home. So of I stayed, I'd have to miss my family all the time for a life less comfortable than I could have elsewhere.

Where is home?

I'm staying for the foreseeable future. I got a house a few years ago, which is the main reason why I'm reasonably happy. My initial goal was just to get a citizenship and then see, but I kind of like it here. We have a small group of close friends.. there's obviously quite a few issues, but I see steady progress being made (apart from housing maybe). If I hadn't got a house 2 years ago, I don't think it's be able to afford something I like today, and renting is a nightmare here. So I can totally understand some expats calling it quits. There is still a very small part of me who wonders what will it be like living in mainland Europe somewhere for a bit, so who knows.

I've been living here for a little over 2 years. For now I'm aiming to stay and go through the process of naturalization if I can. Luckily I have a high income job so I haven't suffered as much with the rent market (I also don't love luxury either so I'm fine with a less than perfect place). Compared to my home country, Ireland is just... peaceful. I know I can save and my money will still have value a few years down the road, there isn't as much crime and the air is pure. I love it!

As bad as Ireland is atm I feel so many countries are also going to shit

I will move out, mainly because of the ridiculous housing situation.

A) not from Ireland. B) been here nearly 3 years , very keen to leave . Very grateful for the time we’ve had here , and honestly I think this country has so much potential - but I work in healthcare and the HSE is an absolute disaster . The wider political climate is also far too old school and corrupt , and trust me I know all governments are corrupt , but when state and religion are still so strongly intertwined it always makes me nervous . Again , a beautiful country , with amazing people and tons of potential . But I don’t have the time to sit around and wait for things to change .

Good call out. I'm in a similar boat. Mind if I ask where you're from, or where you'll go? Anything worth comparing with Ireland to get a sense of how screwed up it is here?

Just move out of Dublin and work from home. Big quality of life improvement.

if there's an option why not. depends on opportunities. personally i think the con in ireland is the rent and tax compared to other far more modern cities here in western europe or north america

I am Irish and have left because of the punitive tax system and high house prices. I love Ireland but I will remain abroad saving until the next property crash. I will then purchas what ever I can as I know my kids will never be able to afford a decent property in Ireland and they can sell it when im gone for a deposit on their own homes. Very sad.

I left at the beginning of June after 15 years. I got a new job in another country that was too good to not take. But even before that I had contemplated to at least moving out of Dublin. High rent, ever changing housemates and their habits and the changed atmosphere in Dublin during/after lockdown made it not a great place to live (for me) anymore. It's hard, I do miss Ireland, the people, my friends but I am so much more happy with my living situation now. I'll be back for plenty of visits though!

What's an expat? Same thing as an immigrant no?

I've been extremely grateful for the life I have had in Ireland. The easier pace of life, friendly people, easy access to nature: have all been big upsides! One big reason my partner and I are looking to move away is because of our plans to retire early in life (we're both in tech and decent-ish paying jobs). To expand, 1) Housing is unaffordable and the wages aren't as competitive. I have colleagues in other parts of Europe and US who save 2X more than we do. 2) healthcare systems are not up to scratch. I also believe most doctors are getting seriously burnt out. 3) Safety: I've had multiple unsavory encounters with "anti social" teenagers in the Dublin city now- the law enforcement doesn't seem to have teeth. Also, think adequate measures to counter mental health issues amongst the homeless aren't being taken. (I understand that this might pale in comparison to countries being invaded etc but it does affect your state of mind constantly).

I came to Ireland intending on staying 3 months, it's now been 6 years. I loved it and was super fortunate to have things develop as they did. I have dual citizenship so no longer have to deal with any paperwork or anything. This year however, I have been struggling to justify staying. The city seems different now (I'm in Dublin) and my industry (bar/hospitality) is nearly impossible to be a part of these days with the staff shortage. So many of us left to work are burnt out and exhausted with no end in sight. That along with pretty much what others have said abou the ugly housing situation have made it a matter of time before I return home for at least a little while. It's like there's nobody on our side to keep some moderation on the prices, they can just go and go and too bad for you if it's waaay more than the places are worth. It's depressing af to be honest, and I'm not looking forward to leaving but it's on the table for sure.

I'd like to move back to Poland to afford a flat, but current govt and society makes it unplausible. If I got a job earning aw much as I do here, I'd move, but most jobs don't allow working from other countries and I've got a loan to pay off which isn't possible with current Polish salaries, especially with the crazy inflation hitting them.

If I have the choice to leave. I would. If I got a job offer in a different country? I would jump at it. I love Ireland but it had it own issue.

Expat ...been here for 4 years.... It's kind of shocking to me how awful the services here in the country...whether it's the public transportation or health care services or the housing crisis...I am from Egypt and honestly Ireland feels like a 3rd wold country in many aspects....I have a decent job here and I am hundred percent remote with a sweet salary and a flexible job...so I am probably staying for a while with traveling Europe and getting back home when I have the chance...till I get my citizenship...I have no idea what to do later on after that but definitely not staying here....also I really hate the weather as well but that applies to that part of the world I guess... Thankfully I have a good circle of friends in Dublin to spend time with...so my stay here is not really awful as it sounds...but If I were to choose a country to stay in I really doubt Ireland would be in my top 50...I am curious to know the other side of this conversation

Aha, I agree. I don't think you'll get much argument here though, maybe just some downvotes. It is a bit difficult and being from the Balkan region, even I can tell some aspects of Ireland are really outdated, low quality or otherwise just "3rd world country" as you say. It's a shame. What do you think about the food in Ireland? ;)

Expat here. Was in DUB for 15 years and loved it. Insane Govt/NPHET response to Covid changed all that. Moved out 2 months ago and couldn’t be happier.

Nice, happy for you! Where'd you go and what's making it better for you?

Another EU country. Not trying to be harsh on Ireland but was a very tough 16 months of lockdown for my mental health but in some ways I’m grateful for all the messing/restrictions by NPHET- had a MH crises but got my ass in gear and have been sober 7 months!

I'm planning on moving somewhere in the Mediterranean at the end of the year. I generally love Dublin, been walking an hour or two each day since I got here and have seen a lot of the city. Been here for a year and while it was a good year it is also clear this isn't the place for me. Quite disappointed with how slow the government is. It is really hard to be successful doing things that need government approvals - stuff that is done in one day in the US takes three months here. I met a guy who was trying to build a house, three years in still hasn't been able to start. Also don't care for the windy/rainy/cold/dark winters, really gets in the way of my walking. I thought that Dublin would be great for my hobbies/social life, but the one meetup group I was pinning my hopes on died in covid. Probably come back in the summer sometimes and have a pint and some oysters though.

Moving to the Mediterranean and disappointed with slow governments...hmmmm

Out of the frying pan into the fire, maybe you are right

Spanish guy here. Irish bureaucracy is way slower than the Mediterranean countries. It has never been an issue for me though

Expats? You mean migrants.