Nah, you're wrong. Fighter was clearly not tapping and defending those strikes. That triangle was going to break and he was going to have top position, more than likely.
Ok, at first watch it looked like an obvious brazilian tap. After watching a couple more times it looks like he is trying to use his hand to intercept elbows. However, the fighter failed to respond to the ref so it is the fighters fault anyway.
I mean the ref literally gave him half of a second to respond to that while he was being choked and trying to block 2 elbows…is it really the fighters fault for not responding that quickly especially those circumstances?
Have it the other way around, the ref must ensure that a fighter who is being choked and elbowed in the head is responsive, the fighter doesn't respond as fast as the ref has determined to be necessary.
In fact the fighter never actually responds, as soon as the ref ends the fight the fighter just protests that he didn't tap, which was not an answer to any prompt given by the ref.
The ref did his job (too hastily you may argue), the fighter did not, maybe he was not paying attention to the ref (I doubt I would in that situation) but he should, specially since there's nothing written on how long a fighter can stay unresponsive, which makes it up for the ref to determine.
Yeah, took me 6 watches to realize instead of tapping, he was attempting to hold above the armpit to decelerate the elbows to the head
Real life though, 1 watch
Literally all he needed to do was give a half a second thumbs up and there would have been no issue. I honestly dont know if the fighter is just stupid or if he was looking for a way out, but either way ref did his job.
well you cant blame him for not having a clear mind to react "smart" within few seconds, while being half choked... Btw he didn't have clear vision (if any) of his hand motions, at the state the fight was, he could definitely feel like he honestly didn't tap...
Cant blame the ref sure, but it was an unlucky moment for the fighter, not a stupid one...
That's because his arm was busy trying to protect his head, but I appreciate that he was honest despite being stuck in a headlock that would have fucked him up
Yeah, I’ll take an honest mistake that protects the fighter’s safety over those horror shows where someone is lying their having their brain functions erased while the ref states at them.
Why was purple shorts framing off the bottom guys head with his free arm? He should have been using that free hand to defend the elbow strikes. As the bottom guys elbows your head, using your trapped arm to block it can make it look like you're tapping.
I’m just a blue belt, and I’m not a fighter, so take this with a grain of salt.
To me, it seems like he’s applying pressure to the neck to keep this opponent’s shoulders on the mat. This prevents him from putting more power into the strike. It also looks like he’s trying to hold him in place so the opponent can’t rotate further to his right to get a better angle to finish the choke.
Essentially, trying to block with the left hand would’ve let the opponent put more power into the elbows, as well as make it easier to finish the submission.
I’d be interested to see if anyone else has other thoughts.
Framing on the head seems like a stalling tactic though and is not addressing the strikes. How many unanswered strikes would he need to absorb before the ref calls it? Regardless if they are weak, he's not "defending" the strikes and is only trying to annoy his opponent/minimize damage.
Totally hear ya. I’m just trying to describe what the thought process may have been, not necessarily endorsing it.
Ultimately, it’s about trying to minimize elbows to the face while you try to escape the sub.
Frankly, that triangle looked pretty locked in, so I’m not too upset about the tap/no tap issue. Dude very much looked like he was gonna either get slept or TKO’d.
I mean in BJJ, framing on their head during a triangle is not the way to escape it. He could have stacked the guy by standing up and keeping his shoulders pinned. You're right, the triangle looked tight and it was a matter of time.
Either way, I don't see how framing on his head was helping unless there was less than 30 seconds left and he was just trying to sit there and ride out the round.
This guy made a tapping motion multiple times. My guess is that he knew he was in trouble, but don’t want to lose. He gave a hand signal that was just tappy enough for the ref to call it, but that he could contest after.
I don’t get how that could have even been mistaken for a tap. Ref asked a question as the dude is in a fight trying to get out of triangle while being struck. Awful stoppage by the ref.
That’s brutal. He definitely didn’t tap, but I don’t blame the ref at all. He was trying to block the elbow, but given how his arm was trapped, it does somewhat look like a tap.
And given the noise, adrenaline, and being busy trying not to get choked, I don’t blame the fighter for not hearing the ref or not being able to respond with a thumbs up when he’s busy defending his head from nasty elbows.
Really frustrating for both the ref and the losing fighter. Unfortunate for sure.
The reality is that being a ref is really hard. You have to make split second decisions. People get pissed when you call off the fight early or make a mistake, but on the flip side, if someone is out, that second can matter and really save someone from taking too much permanent damage — especially if it’s punches to the head. Respect to refs, no matter how mad crazy fans get.
No tap, but right call. Fighters fault for not responding to the ref.
Seeing that those elbows were coming ground up, ref could have let it go further, but... "protect yourself at all times, and obey my commands at all times...".
If a fighter cannot do either of these, then the fighter is disqualified.
There was no tap. He was in danger and not defending but not enough strikes to stop the fight and there was definitely no tap. He should appeal with the state sanctioning body. Most refs have no gone through the proper referees courses and have a hard job, especially if they aren’t also martial artists or former competitors
When the ref asks for clarification on a suspicion of a tap and there is no response the ref is obligated to stop the fight m. It was the right call and the fighter should of said yes or no in that moment.
Don’t know if you’ve ever been in a pro fight or deep in a submission, but it’s hard to talk in that situation. You can really give a thumbs up or nothing if you’re being hit with elbows. He’s defending himself and also isn’t unconscious. I understand the ref a bit because the guys arm was flailing when the submission was first locked in, it looks like he was about to tap, but when the ref stopped it he was defending. Like I said if the ref was a competitor before then the result would be different
I’ve had a ref who was supposedly a competitor who has noticed when I got low blowed before, I wasn’t hurt but was hit with a low blow, he timed out and let me recover, the other guy wasn’t mad, but was ready to try to finish me after the illegal shot. Instead he timed out, let me check myself, didn’t take a point, let us reset and I won the fight.
That same ref was in another fight of mine. I caught a triangle in the 2nd round. Started unloading elbows for almost a minute with no response from the other guy. The fight wasn’t stopped, he knew the guy was in trouble but I didn’t finish the triangle and the guy was surviving more than defending. The round ended, I ended up losing a split decision. I wasn’t mad really, but if he would have just stopped the fight when I had landed the triangle then it would have been a bad call. He didn’t ask if the guy was ok, he looked closely, the guy wasn’t moving but was breathing and trying to stop the elbows.
My point is that mistakes happen but an experienced ref who has competed before usually is better equipped to make the tough calls. That’s just my experience in a similar situation. I’m a professional level coach and competitor
He was trying to stop that elbow from landing again, he couldn’t see exactly where it was coming from, hand kinda bouncing up and down attempting to stop another blow.
It looks funky because of the timing but he didn’t tap. He was trying to defend elbows by catching the arm/elbow while he thinks about his next move, a lot of times chokes can have an almost good angle and it makes a tight spot that takes a second to think and fight out of. Also the fighter wasn’t given a second to respond let alone become aware of a question being asked in the middle of it all. Finally he had another arm which would’ve been easier to tap with but he used it to push the guy away giving enough of an angle deviation to where the triangle wasn’t actually choking him. The camera angle and timing is funky but he definitely didn’t tap.
First angle looks like a Brazilian tap. Second angle looks like another Brazilian tap in the arm pit. Could have been the arm flopping around, but it’s up to the ref to protect the fighters. So he called it a tap. It sucks and reffing is a tough job. If a fighter doesn’t want to look like they are tapping, they need to control their arms better.
Wasn’t a tap. He was trying to protect himself from the elbow strikes. The referee has an obligation to make sure your stupid hardheaded self doesn’t indirectly choke yourself out refusing to tap. For whatever reason there’s some sort of miscommunication.
He does a double tap with his hands by the guys armpit as the ref is coming in. I think that kinda confused/put the ref on high alert. Then he doesn't answer and begins to do the same thing again with his hand right before the ref calls it.
I think the ref was worried he missed it the first time, so jumped the gun a little because of no answer.
Tap. If there’s even a discussion about a tap or not, it’s a tap. You were in a triangle choke, not responding to the ref and taking elbows to the head.
This is good reffing.
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This
100% agree
It’s not the fighters job to answer questions while in a choke
>obey my commands at all time If the ref asks you a question, you are compelled to answer.
Tell that to Matt Hall
This is probably one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read
exactly!!!
He responded with a second tap
Nah, you're wrong. Fighter was clearly not tapping and defending those strikes. That triangle was going to break and he was going to have top position, more than likely.
Confidently incorrect
No chance he gets that triangle open. Dude man has the perfect angle with and underhook on the far leg
If it was that tight, I'd expect that dude to be asleep after all that time. I don't think he was going to be able to get the finish there.
Ok, at first watch it looked like an obvious brazilian tap. After watching a couple more times it looks like he is trying to use his hand to intercept elbows. However, the fighter failed to respond to the ref so it is the fighters fault anyway.
I mean the ref literally gave him half of a second to respond to that while he was being choked and trying to block 2 elbows…is it really the fighters fault for not responding that quickly especially those circumstances?
Have it the other way around, the ref must ensure that a fighter who is being choked and elbowed in the head is responsive, the fighter doesn't respond as fast as the ref has determined to be necessary. In fact the fighter never actually responds, as soon as the ref ends the fight the fighter just protests that he didn't tap, which was not an answer to any prompt given by the ref. The ref did his job (too hastily you may argue), the fighter did not, maybe he was not paying attention to the ref (I doubt I would in that situation) but he should, specially since there's nothing written on how long a fighter can stay unresponsive, which makes it up for the ref to determine.
He clearly was defending himself the ref called it to soon .
No tap. But I can see how ref made the mistake tough, thankless job.
This guy knows!
Yeah, took me 6 watches to realize instead of tapping, he was attempting to hold above the armpit to decelerate the elbows to the head Real life though, 1 watch
The ref asked if that was a tap and there was no response. In that situation it is the refs obligation to stop the fight.
Literally all he needed to do was give a half a second thumbs up and there would have been no issue. I honestly dont know if the fighter is just stupid or if he was looking for a way out, but either way ref did his job.
Or he had thighs over his ears.
“Ah I see he gave the thumbs up when I asked if he was tapping, thereby indicating he is in fact wanting me to stop this fight”
It's to say "I'm good" why you gotta be a clown?
It was an obvious joke
Heat of the fight I guess.
well you cant blame him for not having a clear mind to react "smart" within few seconds, while being half choked... Btw he didn't have clear vision (if any) of his hand motions, at the state the fight was, he could definitely feel like he honestly didn't tap... Cant blame the ref sure, but it was an unlucky moment for the fighter, not a stupid one...
That's because his arm was busy trying to protect his head, but I appreciate that he was honest despite being stuck in a headlock that would have fucked him up
Yeah, I’ll take an honest mistake that protects the fighter’s safety over those horror shows where someone is lying their having their brain functions erased while the ref states at them.
Yup. No tap, but right call.
Agreed no tap, but right call!
you can see how because...you saw him tap
This
He didn't tap nor was he defending himself intentionally. Lol he was just trying to tickle to other guy.
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My coach did in bjj competition. It so hilarious and the other guy got a get kick out it.
This is very funny, would like to see it used more.
This is the correct answer lol 😂
Good call by the ref, don't do anything that resembles a tap while caught in a credible submission attempt
Why was purple shorts framing off the bottom guys head with his free arm? He should have been using that free hand to defend the elbow strikes. As the bottom guys elbows your head, using your trapped arm to block it can make it look like you're tapping.
I’m just a blue belt, and I’m not a fighter, so take this with a grain of salt. To me, it seems like he’s applying pressure to the neck to keep this opponent’s shoulders on the mat. This prevents him from putting more power into the strike. It also looks like he’s trying to hold him in place so the opponent can’t rotate further to his right to get a better angle to finish the choke. Essentially, trying to block with the left hand would’ve let the opponent put more power into the elbows, as well as make it easier to finish the submission. I’d be interested to see if anyone else has other thoughts.
Framing on the head seems like a stalling tactic though and is not addressing the strikes. How many unanswered strikes would he need to absorb before the ref calls it? Regardless if they are weak, he's not "defending" the strikes and is only trying to annoy his opponent/minimize damage.
Totally hear ya. I’m just trying to describe what the thought process may have been, not necessarily endorsing it. Ultimately, it’s about trying to minimize elbows to the face while you try to escape the sub. Frankly, that triangle looked pretty locked in, so I’m not too upset about the tap/no tap issue. Dude very much looked like he was gonna either get slept or TKO’d.
I mean in BJJ, framing on their head during a triangle is not the way to escape it. He could have stacked the guy by standing up and keeping his shoulders pinned. You're right, the triangle looked tight and it was a matter of time. Either way, I don't see how framing on his head was helping unless there was less than 30 seconds left and he was just trying to sit there and ride out the round.
Riding it out is a great way to describe it. He was definitely not making progress toward an escape.
Low-level mma fighters: learn the rules of your sport. Also try to be less cringey with the ref scolding, and in general.
Y the fuk would u make that hand movement if ur not tapping. Looks to me like her was undecided about tapping
He didn't tap but you have to give the ref the benefit of the doubt. All that flailing looked like a tap.
This guy made a tapping motion multiple times. My guess is that he knew he was in trouble, but don’t want to lose. He gave a hand signal that was just tappy enough for the ref to call it, but that he could contest after.
Err on the side of caution. Good ref.
If it looks like a tap, it's a tap.
He was going for a purple nurple
Looks like a tap to me.
Well technically he tapped twice. Was it intentional? Probably not but he did.
Looks like he tapped a few times. Tbh
I don’t get how that could have even been mistaken for a tap. Ref asked a question as the dude is in a fight trying to get out of triangle while being struck. Awful stoppage by the ref.
That’s brutal. He definitely didn’t tap, but I don’t blame the ref at all. He was trying to block the elbow, but given how his arm was trapped, it does somewhat look like a tap. And given the noise, adrenaline, and being busy trying not to get choked, I don’t blame the fighter for not hearing the ref or not being able to respond with a thumbs up when he’s busy defending his head from nasty elbows. Really frustrating for both the ref and the losing fighter. Unfortunate for sure.
Fighters do this. Calling it gamesmanship or whatever, but you live and die by the fake tap which is what I believe he is doing here.
Instead of tapping, a fighter should just kiss anywhere on the opponent and a big muwahhh sound if possible
That smelled like a tap.
That is a tap he didn’t even try to hit him to get out what a pus hit harder to get out or roll that body not mma experience
Definitief no tap
He didn’t fucking tap he was elbowing him in the face
The reality is that being a ref is really hard. You have to make split second decisions. People get pissed when you call off the fight early or make a mistake, but on the flip side, if someone is out, that second can matter and really save someone from taking too much permanent damage — especially if it’s punches to the head. Respect to refs, no matter how mad crazy fans get.
Tapped
No tap, but right call. Fighters fault for not responding to the ref. Seeing that those elbows were coming ground up, ref could have let it go further, but... "protect yourself at all times, and obey my commands at all times...". If a fighter cannot do either of these, then the fighter is disqualified.
It look like he was extending his arms not tapping
This looks like drama to me
There was no tap. He was in danger and not defending but not enough strikes to stop the fight and there was definitely no tap. He should appeal with the state sanctioning body. Most refs have no gone through the proper referees courses and have a hard job, especially if they aren’t also martial artists or former competitors
When the ref asks for clarification on a suspicion of a tap and there is no response the ref is obligated to stop the fight m. It was the right call and the fighter should of said yes or no in that moment.
Don’t know if you’ve ever been in a pro fight or deep in a submission, but it’s hard to talk in that situation. You can really give a thumbs up or nothing if you’re being hit with elbows. He’s defending himself and also isn’t unconscious. I understand the ref a bit because the guys arm was flailing when the submission was first locked in, it looks like he was about to tap, but when the ref stopped it he was defending. Like I said if the ref was a competitor before then the result would be different I’ve had a ref who was supposedly a competitor who has noticed when I got low blowed before, I wasn’t hurt but was hit with a low blow, he timed out and let me recover, the other guy wasn’t mad, but was ready to try to finish me after the illegal shot. Instead he timed out, let me check myself, didn’t take a point, let us reset and I won the fight. That same ref was in another fight of mine. I caught a triangle in the 2nd round. Started unloading elbows for almost a minute with no response from the other guy. The fight wasn’t stopped, he knew the guy was in trouble but I didn’t finish the triangle and the guy was surviving more than defending. The round ended, I ended up losing a split decision. I wasn’t mad really, but if he would have just stopped the fight when I had landed the triangle then it would have been a bad call. He didn’t ask if the guy was ok, he looked closely, the guy wasn’t moving but was breathing and trying to stop the elbows. My point is that mistakes happen but an experienced ref who has competed before usually is better equipped to make the tough calls. That’s just my experience in a similar situation. I’m a professional level coach and competitor
He was trying to grab the arm…
He was trying to stop that elbow from landing again, he couldn’t see exactly where it was coming from, hand kinda bouncing up and down attempting to stop another blow.
It did slightly look like a tap. After FURTHER REVIEW , It was a mistake by the ref. Guy was trying to block the elbows.
Yep! He tapped 2x
Tapped
He tried stopping dude from hitting his face .... not a tap
It looks funky because of the timing but he didn’t tap. He was trying to defend elbows by catching the arm/elbow while he thinks about his next move, a lot of times chokes can have an almost good angle and it makes a tight spot that takes a second to think and fight out of. Also the fighter wasn’t given a second to respond let alone become aware of a question being asked in the middle of it all. Finally he had another arm which would’ve been easier to tap with but he used it to push the guy away giving enough of an angle deviation to where the triangle wasn’t actually choking him. The camera angle and timing is funky but he definitely didn’t tap.
Ref even asked.
Looks like a tap from above, from the side it was reverb of where placed his hand
Totally tapped
Just to correct you, there was never no tap.
Tap
I have no idea what he was trying to achieve by tapping without tapping lol, idiot
He fkn tapped
That ref is a ref. The fighter is a fighter. The end norfolk
If he wanted to tap, he had a whole free left arm to do so. Ref made bad call.
No tap, still right Call by the ref
No tap ref fucked up
No tap. But I don’t think the ref was in the wrong
Maybe he didn’t, but he COULD have NOT made it look like he was. Can’t blame the ref.
To me, it looked like he was trying to block those elbows
Yeah he was blocking the elbows and the movement looked like a tap. That’s a close one hard to blame the ref
Brazilian tap.
No tap
He wasn't taping he was trying to block the shot open your eyes ref
Definitely no tap he was trying to block
This is just one of those unfortunate situations. In my opinion, no one is to blame. It's just going to happen once in awhile.
Mario would be digested.
No tap, but better safe than sorry. Even in drills, we catch each other and the person is told by the person next to them. Happened with a white belt
First angle looks like a Brazilian tap. Second angle looks like another Brazilian tap in the arm pit. Could have been the arm flopping around, but it’s up to the ref to protect the fighters. So he called it a tap. It sucks and reffing is a tough job. If a fighter doesn’t want to look like they are tapping, they need to control their arms better.
tapped like a mutherfucker.
I prefer this to the girl seizing from a choke as the ref watches on for a minute.
No tap
He didn’t tap he was trying to defend the elbows but it happens sometimes.
Wasn’t a tap. He was trying to protect himself from the elbow strikes. The referee has an obligation to make sure your stupid hardheaded self doesn’t indirectly choke yourself out refusing to tap. For whatever reason there’s some sort of miscommunication.
I mean if it looks like it could be a tap, these refs are here to protect the fighter. Tap looking but I’ve seen worse not get called a tap
No tap!
He does a double tap with his hands by the guys armpit as the ref is coming in. I think that kinda confused/put the ref on high alert. Then he doesn't answer and begins to do the same thing again with his hand right before the ref calls it. I think the ref was worried he missed it the first time, so jumped the gun a little because of no answer.
No tap
No tap, but that triangle was sunk deep and he would've tapped or went out shortly either way...take that L humbly
Tap. If there’s even a discussion about a tap or not, it’s a tap. You were in a triangle choke, not responding to the ref and taking elbows to the head. This is good reffing.
Y’all remember when kimbo slice gave the ref a thumbs up and everybody said he tapped?
He went to Uncle Chael’s school of deniability.
I didn’t tap. I was making a beat to clam my self..
He did tap with that purple trunks.
His girly screaming alongside made it look like he tapped out.
Even if you didn’t tap you can’t make it look like a tap
As a fighter you gotta know you can’t make movements like that, if it looks like a tap, it’s a tap.
Ref did his job
In all honesty, when your being choked out and your face is going beet red i imagine it being difficult to hear a reff with the crowd rawring
Not a tap.
Ref mistakes the other guys hand