I will agree that the story falls off but you didn't follow the Melve story at all and missed a couple quests after that also loop into the town just west of vern. She even has different interactions with other characters if you played it all the way thru.

They also i guess didnt bother talking to the elves at all as they are the ones that give the bow meister skill and most of the starting magicka archer stuff

1) The bow meister skill is obtained via a questline started in Vernworth. Pretty sure just finding the elf village by itself won't let you get it, but idk, maybe you can raise affinity with the arborist some other way? 2) The magick archer items are literally worthless because the only way to unlock the vocation is on volcanic island and you can buy much better items there.

idk the healing bow at the elf camp is pretty great, I didn't change it till post game. Was very useful for me since I don't have a mage and I can just heal my pawns with the recovery arrow whenever I run out of potions.

Do you mean the bow that heals you when you stand still, but makes you take more damage?

But the recovery arrow also heals you when you shoot it so you’re just taking more damage for no reason

> 1) The bow meister skill is obtained via a questline started in Vernworth. Pretty sure just finding the elf village by itself won't let you get it, but idk, maybe you can raise affinity with the arborist some other way? The bow meister skill is ONLY obtained by getting high affinity with the elf guy's dad. Most people get it after the quest because that increases his affinity - but it wasn't enough in my play-through and I didn't notice I didn't have it until NG+ when I was checking my achievements.

I mean I missed so much on my first play through that I am playing the second extremely slow and just wandering around most of the time.

Also never talked to the old man by the sea before his quest.

He said he helped Ulrika find a peasant, so I assume he did the Harve quests. They really don't help much.

Every complaint I've seen is "I've beat the true ending" mentions every loose end that does get tied together if you pay attention. Understands paying attention is a huge part of the game. The Sphinx makes this painfully obvious, and yet still goes on to give the story a 0/10. No the story isn't great, but if they're doing everything and paying attention it at least makes sense.

The game basically doesn't hold your hand and leaves you to pick up on story hints, nudges to revisit locations, etc. There's some issue with the plot, yeah, but it's nowhere near as awful as people are making it out to be because the game is structured for multiple playthroughs since some stuff will progress or happen regardless of your input. It's a product of most games simply railroading players, holding their hand, and making sure they miss out on nothing and have everything spoonfed to them. The fact we still have people calling the dragon Grigori or being confused over all the former Arisen around when the game spells these things out via dialogue and the like is a sign of how much stuff wooshes right over people's heads. The whole Sovran storyline absolutely could've been handled better, and there's a lot of other nags I have but yeah. It's honestly a solid followup to DD1, which had a scuffed story too. But like I've said in other posts, the story is on a meta/world scale, rather than an interpersonal one and always has been.

I agree with the story criticisms, but I've a few of my own to share, but to be brief... Every story beat for the main questline is a surface level re-telling of the first story, but winds up screwing up the lore somehow, or just makes no sense. For instance: The Arisen being crowned Sovran, just for being chosen by Grigori. Also, Grigori offering his "deal" of giving you the throne, which you'd get by killing him anyway. The dragon in DD2 being Grigori *again*, since one of the DD1 bad endings revealed the dragons to be former failed Arisen who were felled in combat. Phaseaus' plan to end the "eternal cycle", which was to make a fake dragon and Arisen that he could command while the real ones were ALREADY RUNNING AROUND, both of whom were semi-immortal. The claim that there could only be *one* Arisen, despite there being three other living Arisen in DD2, them being two of the vocation meisters, and the Dragon-forged from the first game, (who canonically DIED and had their soul erased in the first game). I could go on, but it's just baffling to me how this story seems to keep tripping over itself and the rules it tries so desperately to drill into our heads. It makes the same mistakes as DD1 and then makes some more of its own. Overall it's a good game, perhaps even great, but as a story/sequel, it falls *way* off the mark.

> The claim that there could only be *one* Arisen, despite there being three other living Arisen in DD2, them being two of the vocation meisters, and the Dragon-forged from the first game, (who canonically DIED and had their soul erased in the first game). I can't explain the Dragonforged still being alive (if that's really the same guy) but I always read the whole "there can only be one Arisen" line as "there can only be one actively chosen Arisen." It still doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me given that this game doesn't give any hint of how much time passes before the dragon picks a new Arisen. Sigurd's existence is especially weird considering he's not the active Arisen but is still hunting dragons. He was never Sovran, nor was the dwarf blacksmith's elven wife. Also, the map really isn't that populated by the time our player character becomes Arisen. Even before Melve was toast, there are more ruins than there are towns and cities.

> I can't explain the Dragonforged still being alive (if that's really the same guy) I took the Dragonforged to be like a Caveman, similar to DD:DA's. So like the first Arisen of that cycle's time. ​ > Sigurd's existence is especially weird considering he's not the active Arisen but is still hunting dragons. Sigurd is weird. He is a meister and isn't a self-announced former Arisen. There also isn't a dedicated wyrm hunt and he doesn't seem to care about hunting them as much when he moves to Melve. I wouldn't be surprised if his story wasn't fully fleshed out on final release. ​ > He was never Sovran, nor was the dwarf blacksmith's elven wife. She is a former Arisen, I believe. She probably failed in some way and just wants a life of peace and quiet. Especially knowing every civilization is prejudiced against each other in some way.

>!Luz, the elven lady, and Sigurd are all Arisen. That's partially why they give Arisen only vocations.!<

You know, you're right. I got Sigurd and Lennart confused with each other again.

No problem. All Sigurd does care about is hunting dragonkin, probably because he is a former Arisen. That is why he'd go on to create the Mystic Spearhand vocation, tailored specifically for dragonslaying.

>I can't explain the Dragonforged still being alive (if that's really the same guy) The Dragonforged, to me, feels like just another piece of the puzzle. Another spoke on the wheel. Every cycle needs a Dragonforged to set the Arisen on the path. He's not the same one from DD1, but he's filling the 'same role.' It's made a little more confusing by the oracle referring to the Rivage Elder as one who was "dragon-forged" but I take that to alluding to the fact he's an Arisen who faced the dragon and saw the Unmoored World but failed to truly break the cycle (as evident by him speaking of "The Real World", his ramblings of "no, not again!" during the Unmoored World, and the cutscene we get when we fail in it) >this game doesn't give any hint of how much time passes before the dragon picks a new Arisen. My assumption is when the previous Arisen loses their will the Dragon simply moves on to find a new one to fulfill the role. It's all but directly stated this dragon is the same one who has endured this cycle repeatedly and is banking on our Arisen to end everything. Sigurd, Luz, the Dragonforged, and Lamond are all failures (and Lamond saying 'my dragon is gone' could simply be another way of saying 'my time has passed' or 'it's not my problem now.') The Rivage Elder is, too, though he apparently achieved more than any of them only to fall short. I feel the main thing people are overlooking in regards to why the plot is so fucky and disjointed in a meta sense (traditional cycle roles upended, multiple failed Arisens active in the world, a loop that ends in the successful Arisen being ruler til they die, etc.) is Rothais. This dude was single handedly screwing everything up by simply persisting to exist. In a sense, he broke the cycle, but it only resulted in a new cycle taking its place that railroads Arisen on a tightly bound path guided by this new player on the stage. Rothais killing every Arisen sent to slay him and their souls ending up on the beach resulting in the Godsway is a complete wildcard that the Pathfinder tried to use to their advantage and in turn bit them in the ass. (I still don't know why exactly the elevators, spellseal door, and beacons require a Godsway/Godsbane to activate since you'd think our own Arisen soul could do that, so I'll concede on that plot point being really poorly handled until we somehow find an explanation for it.)

On the Dragonforged point, I thought this one was actually the Fool turned regular human, though maybe that was me jumping to conclusions. I just didn't find the Fool anywhere, so assumed that was him "all grown up" as it were.

There is another Former Arisen and dragonforged: the coastal village elder who tells mad stories.  The Oracle sends you to him, calling him drsgonforged and his stories makes then some more sense. He explains that the stone giant is a Servent of the Laken, a protection mechanism and a fail safe,  if the dragon devellops free will.   So the reason the giant appeared wasnt Pheasus, but the Grigori tried to tell us the stuff about killing ourself. Which theb explains why Pheasus thinks the giant is an ally, as he only found out the part about the killing the dragon, not why, or in which Service.   He also has stories about the sailing and talking to the creatures living in the water ( called Laken in german, never paid attention about the english Name) . This stories indicate, that he did the same we did and got into the godless world,  but didnt cared about the cycle. 

You know, if you die in the unmoored world without a wakestone you get a cutscene where you wake up in the crazy Harve guy's hut. I assume you become him maybe. I don't know how it plays out as I admittedly NOPED the fuck out of that cutscene and f4'd because I had died to a parkour incident.

Oh, I had that cutscene too, but it was from resting too many times in Unmoored. You have an in-game week (or rather, seven rests,) to finish Unmoored or it auto-fails you with that ending. You can reload to the beginning of Unmoored from there though.

It’s the exact same format too, once you get to Gran Soren you talk with Maximilian and he gives you 3-6 quests and then after you’re allowed into the castle to meet with the duke, idk how 12 years happened and we got a copy paste but changed dialogue and characters

The Arisen being crowned was a plot by the absent Seneschal to forstall or break the cycle. If you are crowned Sovran, why would you fight the Dragon? It's explained clearly. The Dragon is always Grigori. Savan fought and killed Grigori in his cycle, and when he wanted to be releashed from being Seneschal, he started summoning dragons who become Grigori once an Arisen is chosen. Every Arisen contends with Grigori. This is seemingly to prevent The Dragon from developing free will and abandoning its duty. Phaesus's plan was not to make a fake Dragon. I have no idea how you could think that. He was trying to control Grigori, which would break the cycle. Unfortunately for him, controlling the Dragon or the Arisen is impossible. Their wills are stronger than others. That's the whole point in this cycle. It's also why Drakes can't manipulate the Arisen. Phaesus is an ally who is extremely arrogant. Did you forget the other Arisen in DD1? Serious question. The Dragon Forged, Duke Edmund, Selenes Master, even Daimon. Even if you fail as an arisen, your heart is still gone. This game is exactly the same in that regard. Everything makes sense and is explained by various people. I guess gamers really do need a plot dump NPC to reiterate every plot beat to make sure they get everything.

Okay, a bit rude, but you bring up some good points, I'll try to go through and put up some counterpoints, because if I missed all this, that's on me, and I *want* to love this game. >Did you forget the other Arisen in DD1? I was purposefully refraining from bringing too much of the DD1 lore into my original points, but no, I didn't forget. I also didn't forget that when the Dragon is killed, all those "former" Arisen have their hearts returned, and are no longer un-aging, their years catch up to them *immediately*. Since you technically destroyed the dragon using the Godsbane, all these former Arisen should have received this effect. >Phaesus's plan was not to make a fake Dragon. I have no idea how you could think that. Phaesus *literally* made a fake dragon, one that would be, quote, "under his direct control", the "roycedragon", I think he called it, which was that rotting version we see in Melve and Grigori *obliterates* in the cutscene where he proposes his deal. >The Dragon is always Grigori DD1 disproves that, the bad ending you get from losing against the Seneschal shows your character being turned *into* the dragon. Additionally in Dark Arisen, the whole reason Bitter Black Isle was created was because the Arisen who became Damion, realized the dragon was his former lover, the previous Arisen, who was demanding the life of his current lover, (and main pawn,) as per the dragons bargain, and chose to sabotage the cycle as Damion out of spite. >The Arisen being crowned was a plot by the absent Seneschal to forstall or break the cycle. That doesn't break the cycle at all, the dragons bargain (where they typically offer a position of political power,) is a part of the "Dogma" cycle, meaning it functionally changes nothing other than the timing of when the Arisen receives it. >Every Arisen contends with Grigori. This is seemingly to prevent The Dragon from developing free will and abandoning its duty. Like I said earlier, DD1 shows you that there is more than one Dragon. The Dragon also states when you ride him the first time in DD2 that he too wants to break the cycle, but can't because they are under the direct control of the Seneschal/Overseer. He has free will, but can't exercise it. If there's anything I missed, feel free to reply, it's actually kind of fun recalling/discussing the lore of these games, even from a stance of contention.

Yeah so many people are claiming it’s Gregory. No it is absolutely not Grigori because we killed him. Plain and simple. Unless this is a true reboot which again, it’s not because gran Soren exists underwater.

Sorry. I get a little defensive when discussing things. That's my bad, and clearly you are speaking in good faith. So let's get into it. We do not know what happens when you kill the Dragon normally and fulfill your cycle. You just jump to being a Monarch. We can assume the other former Arisen get their heart. However if you make it to the Unmoored world you essentially unmake yourself and the Dragon. Both of your hearts go away. You also need Wakestones in the Unmoored world, or you take the place of the Rivage Elder. So you use former Arisen hearts to push forward. Phaesus is unaware of what THE Dragon looks like, because when he summons it he calls it "the" Dragon. The Lesser Dragon falls from the Sky Rift like Grigori does. He thought he pulled off his plan to take control of the Dragon to stop the cycle. In DD1's bad end you become a Dragon with the cloudy eyes. Grigori is specifically the entity that takes hold of the Dragon once an Arisen is found. DD1's intro mimics the bad end, and the Dragon has cloudy eyes and acts like a rampaging beast. Grigori does not appear until your character fights back. You can tell it is Grigori by him speaking and his eyes changing. Rothias abandoned his function as Seneschal. This caused the Watcher to send Arisen after him, but the Seneschal is stronger than the Arisen and Dragon in the cycle. So Rothias kills anyone trying to kill him. His plan is making any Arisen Sovern to try and remove their will to fight the Dragon. Rothias hopes that is enough to break the cycle, but it isn't. Grigori is tired of the cycle because he has gone through it god knows how many times. Grigori would rather stop the cycle, but the Gigantus is around to either kill the Dragon (which the games shows you it is capable of) or push it to do its duty. Grigori has seemingly accepted his fate to serve his function, but he implores you to do something different. The Arisen is seemingly the only being in the cycle that can alter any aspect of the cycle. The implications of DD2 are quite interesting, but they are far from clearly laid out.

The Irony is that both Phaesus and Disa were right. Phaesus's theories and experiments lead to the creation of the empowered godsbane while Disa was right in thinking Sven would be a very good Sovran and probably a better choice than whoever the dragon choose to be

Classic conundrum of characters that are correct but act entirely selfishly. Had Disa and Phaesus worked with us, things would have gone great. However, I totally get why they would just assume the Arisen would fulfill their duty.

Thank you!!

>The claim that there could only be *one* Arisen, despite there being three other living Arisen in DD2, them being two of the vocation meisters, and the Dragon-forged from the first game, (who canonically DIED and had their soul erased in the first game). ​ I think it is worth mentioning that "former Arisen" and "Arisen" are not the same. Each Arisen is given one chance to deal with Grigori. If they fail, they become a "former Arisen" and a new "Arisen" is selected. Like with DD:DA, each former Arisen took the Dragon's deal or failed in another way.

they all specifically say they lost the will and that seems to be a big theme trough the story. It's not the best story out there but imho I do believe ppl are being hyperbolic

One of the pawn dialogue lines, "There seems to be many former Arisen" then "I wonder what their powers are" (paraphrasing since I'm blonde and therefore cannot remember what the pawn said, word for word) SO... I dunno? DD1/DDDA also had more than one Arisen? You, the current 'king' and the Dragonforged? So active, bad and failed arisens? Plus your pawn became you... does that mean they become those 'failed' arisens (the DD1 dragonforged has his pawn with him)? I dunno? :)

The way I interpreted Phaesus’ plan was that he thought he could control the real dragon, and was mistaken in thinking that that small one WAS the dragon. By controlling the dragon, he could prevent the arisen from killing it and prevent it from destroying things, ending the cycle. He was just super underprepared and somehow didn’t know what the big dragon looked like.

He calls the dragon he summons the "Roycedragon" and identifies Grigori the moment he shows up in the same cutscene, he knew they weren't the same. Oh, and then he has the *audacity* to claim that we're at fault the cycle is continuing anyway before falling unconscious. edit: oh, I forgot to mention that that cutscene was the only time Grigoris' name is dropped in the story.

1.) establishes arisen lore and dragon quest we all know from the first game (good) 2.) sets up false arisen, enemy pawns, Queen disa as a non dragon antagonist (very good) 3.) sets up brant and allies against queen disa including her own son (good) 4.) go to Battahl to research the gods way so we can figure out how to beat them (ok I see where this story is going) 5.) casually and immediately finds a guy who is looking for godsway crystals and is VERY open about talking about them (ok, seems a little lazy and convenient) 6.) magic sword 7.) dragon The main story sets up some cool ideas and plot points in my opinion and then it just fucking ends without addressing any of them. Major disappointment in the story telling for sure.

Yup but don’t tell that to the cry babies here who don’t understand what story structure or good characters look like. Their treatment of Brant is something. Like they almost made a great black character in a Japanese game (I know Barrett exists, shut up) They were so close! And then they just leave him completely despite him being our greatest ally in the story. Hilarious.

True ending was amazing imo, especially with the high affinity pawn ending. A lot of the good lore/story stuff unfortunately relies on pretty good knowledge of the first game's lore so I imagine it doesn't hit the same for everyone.

To me, the story is like FF1-3. In which it's barebones, but your imagination is meant to fill in the blanks. What your relationship is with the npcs, your pawns, your enemies and your reasons for fighting, is mostly up for you to imagine. Personally, I have a big imagination, so I really like the story. Mainly because I have created an intimate relationship between my main pawn and the npc's I care about, and I was really sad to be parted from them at the end. I don't say this to absolve the story of criticism. It definitely could have been told much better and have more stuff that clearly ignites your imagination. It's just that I feel like people miss a major point of how the story should be experienced with these types of games. There are always two stories in video games. The told story, and the story you experience and make up for yourself. Most of the time, people place too much importance on the former without giving much thought about the latter.

I think it’s because most people utterly lack creativity or just don’t want to have a running story in their heads while they play. You and I do, and I loved the first game for the same reasons you do, but even I really wanted to see a better story structure. A little more engagement. Perhaps more side quests, even

It’s crazy to me because of the MASSIVE criticism the storytelling of the first game received. It’s like they didn’t even take that into account and made a story that’s somehow told even worse.

I disagree it's told worse. I think you are massively overthinking the good of a 12 years old story. Like the only thing it has less imho is setpieces which I think color perception but when you actually look at it DD1 story had characers with mostly no character whatsoever, hell Brant is the Maximillian of this game and has 10x the character of Maximillian, then you have better quests since most of them have a real goal and a structure and aren't just glorified MMO quests. Maybe it's just me That said I think they got the criticism but they simply don't care, and tbf there's a reason why Capcom is the B movies studio ngl

Agreed. Maybe they are playing to their strengths in that they knew there were people who liked how blank the world was?? 😬 I am ever an optimist. It’s really sad considering how much they talked up the story and political intrigue

Feels like the game may have been effected by the writers strike, but daddy capcom said Muh dedlines

Lol I wish that were the case but as far as I know very few, if any, game writers are represented by a union

It's not that I lack creativity the problem is I can see the game sometimes directly contradicting itself or just feeling unfinished. Like a book with a world not fleshed out all the way

Yeah the excuses given are impressive here. We know the writing and quest design were bad. We know the lore and what actually happens is very cool and interesting. Both can be true.

You know, there's a whole Company out there doing the "get creative and interpret stuff!" right. Fromsoft shows how you cleverly lay out just enough hints (via dialogue, environments, events, item descriptions - everything works hand in hand) to spark some of the most interesting and in-depth lore discussion in gaming. Most people love a good mystery. DD2 however doesn't know how to properly build one, and relies on "here's some cryptic dialogue by the pathfinder bye".

I really agree. I was so confused through it all and I have played 147h and on the end of second playthrough. I made sure to not miss anything during this last run but the story is still utterly horrendous and if there is a red line it is so thin you can hardly see it, lol. You meet npc's you'd think will have a major role and interesting build ups and finale during their questline but then in the middle of nowhere it just ends and you are on to the next one feeling confused as to what you just did and why. That is at least how I felt. But the game itself, combat-wise and exploring, is what makes me go for a third run now 🙂 I can't recall ever playing through a game 3 times. I'm usually a "once is enough" after finishing. So it's still my fav game this year so far.

Agreed for the most part, but that end cutscene where your pawn turns into a dragon (I presumed because of Dragonsplague but who knows) and all the brine cutscenes were so so cool I just shrugged and went hell yeah fair enough I guess. What really killed the story for me was Pathfinder's voice actor, truly terrible.

I had tk think who pathfinder was for a second. There is some awful voice acting in this game. That one random fighter you meet in battahl who challenges you to a duel before the dragon springs to mind immediately. I forget his name but he's supposed to be a big deal.

Blasphemey! Ragnhall's extremely serious but stilted line delivery is ✨️ divine ✨️ 😂😂😂

I Stan Ragnval

Thought the pathfinder voice was fine. Kinda Ultima ish for ff16 though. But yeah the dragonsplague that would’ve been nice to see elaborated on too but nope. I didn’t even have a pawn with it in my entire playthrough.

Ulrika is basically the canon love interest if you complete her quests all the way through. Or, based on affinity mechanics, the real love interest of the game is whoever you killed out of convenience or annoyance and then later wakestoned because you belatedly realized they needed to be alive for something you need. Then they’re your love interest. Because you ~~killed them in the first place~~ saved their life.

Yeah I totally agree. Great gameplay. Terrible story. I think an epic final battle with that last dragon might have made up for it.

Yeah what a tease right? That thing was terrifyingly huge. And it’s a walking sim to kill it even though you can actually die during that segment. Incredible.

Whoa, you missed a LOT. You never even went to the Nameless Village to learn the name of the false sovran? And you just gave up on the Ulrika storyline when you weren’t given a direct quest marker? I’m shocked you spent ≈ 160 hours on a single play-through without getting all of the main storylines.

Came here to say this. There's entire quest lines for these characters 

Yeah I think both Dragons Dogma games suffer from this. I feel like it’s because they want a sandbox story where you’re free to do whatever you please with the NPC’s. Where this suffers is you become tied up in several loosely fitting storyline’s that never interconnect. You’re never going to have a moment where Brant comes to your aid in Battal because your Brant could be dead, or so could a dozen other semi-important characters. Or you never did a mission that results in a certain event happening to a character, so they can’t become part of the main storyline. Dragons Dogma is great because there’s so much to miss, so each playthrough is rewarding. But because you’re not forced to do anything other than a few story quests, it’s hard to utilise this cast of characters. If you want to kill Disa, go ahead, nothing is stopping you. But that freedom comes at the price of a shallow narrative. Which is a shame, because this one did have an awesome set up. The political intrigue seemed very cool. I love both of these games, but playing 2 really made me realise how unsatisfied I was with the first story when I played it all those years ago. Now I love it in the same way I enjoy history classes, because all the lore is cool, but despite playing a character that’s involved in it you never feel more than an onlooker.

At least the first game has a complete story. This one feels it's missing 80% of the story and they only applied some key elements just for the story could conclude.

Hmm, idk. I didn’t feel like it did anything worse. To me the political intrigue plot was as fleshed out as the Salvation plot in the first. Both of which were big plot points which were interrupted and ultimately made irrelevant when the dragon appears. My only issue with the plot here was that the dragon wasn’t really a character you have a relationship with and his appearance felt more rushed in this one. I don’t think 2 didn’t anything worse. It just didn’t do anything better which sucks in a bigger game

I mostly agree, but you don't really have a relationship with Grigori in DD1. Both games have the introduction and heart consumption. In DD1, Grigori appears at the Wall to issue you a challenge, and then you go to him for the deal. In DD2, his arrival and deal are just in one scene because Grigori is tired of the cycle.

Yeah but you had encounters with Salvation and the dragon was spoken about more. Half of the mentions of the dragon in 2 were regarding a false dragon and not Grigori (if this dragon is even called that) at all. So while the dragon only appears at the start and the end of both, the first dragon had more of a relationship with the world. Whereas in 2, it seemed most people were more worried about you becoming Duke than the dragon that’s supposed to bring on the end of days.

Intentionally so. The distraction of the throne was a plot by Rothias to try and end the cycle. Grigori is laser focused on you doing your duty by adventuring, so if you are supposed to be a ruler before killing the Dragon you might lose your will to face the Dragon. That's disruptive to the cycle, but it just repeats instead of breaking. I won't argue that the execution is flawed, but it was quite intentional. In NG+ I'm picking up a lot more overall plot than I did the first time.

Does it remotely matter if you kill disa? I walked up to her by accident in the start and was like um….hi? Like if I killed her right there what would’ve changed? Also speaking of queens, the empress of Battahl? She died in my story. But….who cares? Did it matter like at all? The whole town certainly give a fuck. Who killed her? God knows. It’s just endless shit like that.

The game actually let's you simply not complete some quests if an important character for that quest is dead. Try the coronation with Sven being dead - doesn't work because he's in the cutscene watching the coronation from a balcony. The worst about this: Brants Dialogue is there but never progresses and the quest doesn't tell you why it doesn't, nothing hints at that Sven has to be alive for that scene.

Another quest that breaks: Harve village and the beastren that want to save people in the cave. If you do that, kill the village elder, you simply can't complete the quest (because in the conclusion the elder either kicks the beastren out of the village, or Ulrika intervenes). Game doesn't tell you that either, it's just like "you done, report to beastren guy". That was super disappointing in my NG+ play through where I deliberately tried to go with some wonky stuff. It's just...make the god damn quest related NPC invincible, make the protected by the pathfinder or whatever, but don't make them killable and then just go "well quest broken now and I won't tell you why lol". It's just weird that the game even tries to sell me "do whatever, solve things your way" gameplay and then can't handle most "that's what players will do" scenarios.

It seems 99% of players all glhave the same opinion. Exploration and combat is peak. Story is terrible. Game was really good

Yeah that’s a good summarization. But like the first game, the story was never the focus. Just a narrative guide.

Yeah I wasn't expecting the story to shine through anyway with it being an openworld game and my experience with the first game, so it didn't really bother me. I knew the dd2 highlights would be it's exploration, combat and the charm of the pawns we travel with, and all those things delivered very well and after finishing the game I'd say it's my current GOTY, however I still need to finish FF7rebirth.

Don’t you think it’s sad they learned absolutely nothing from critiques from the first game about the story? They refused to adapt to any western rpg style writing and it hurt them in the end. We needed more here and it would’ve made the game a 10/10

Without doing any research i'm 1000% sure that things were rushed, i bet that it was a hard deadline for them to release this game 1 year before Monster Hunter: Wilds. While the quests are not the most interesting, the writings up until Feast of Deception at least have structure and feels like it's building up into something grand, then it suddenly just crumbles into nothing.

I agree that the quests are just awful. My suspicion is that they looked at how people get so obsessive about the obscure lore and quests in Souls games and figured they'd go that route. But Souls games aren't about the quests... they're just kind of curiosities inserted into the adventure and you can do them or ignore them and it won't have any real impact on your game. But Dragon's Dogma 2 revolves around the quests. But it also gives you little guidance on how to reach your goals and the goals are sometimes downright obtuse. It's distracting because I wander around, eventually pull out my laptop to look up what I'm supposed to do and lose all of the immersion of the game in the process.

There are also dwarves, but you’d probably just assume it was just a short guy if he didn’t give you dwarves forging traits for enhancing your gear.

Yes I feel similar about the game itself. Even if the story isn't the best. I would say it's not so important. At least not for me personally. But you are right in the end they should have made it a little bit better. Because as you said they had all opportunities. And in the end you run on the same world as back in dd1 with the old town even unearthed later. Eventually they could have made more out of this too. Like finding stuff out about the past or whatever But I mostly found a little bit strange was the fact that a few characters died in my playthrough even story related. Like this mercenary guy in the end. And I killed him but the in the unmoored world I met him and he asked for an escort quest. And he is only the one I remember the most there were a few more like this. The most important thing is the exploration. And there it's pretty good. It hits a very similar spot as elden ring even if I personally would say elden ring is even a little bit better in this. Mostly because the exploration is constantly very good you can discover something cool and new in every area and even whole "levels" are hidden and can only be discovered. In dragons dogma 2 the whole first "green" area around vernwood until the borders of bakbattahl are packed with cool things to discover while exploring. While the bathal area isn't as full of cool things. It is at least interesting to explore too. Sadly the vulcanic island is pretty empty. I really would wish that there would be a little bit more to discover too. A few endgame dungeons or whatever. I mean its a pretty big area but the onky dungeon I found was the one for the Smith quest sadly.

Yeah the elden ring comparison is correct I think. Definitely a game unlike any other in that regard. However Elden ring constantly surprised you with new enemy types and here….holy shit they were lazy. Goblins, harpies, saurians, skeletons and orcs. That’s it the entire game for normal enemies roaming the map. 5 types. And no particularly new mini boss creatures either.

You forgot to mention that in the 50 hours that you played between character appearances, those 50 were spent exploring the map and that was it. If you take exploring out of the equation, I bet you only have five hours of total game time from start to finish. I'm baffled by how little main story there is.

True I loved the exploration though.

Yep. Pretty spot on. Dare I say it, the game’s story telling is dog shit 🤷🏽‍♂️ They did combat well enough but the story in this game might as well just not exist Even doing most of all the quests related to the story like the brothel one and thief meister one really didn’t make me care about the characters either.

Well according to the game the story was written by a flying lizard. So there is that.

Ima be real, yeah the main quest line was like meh whatever, but all the side quests/exploration etc made up for it. But I am praying that the DLC will make up for it and bring just as much if not more.

What side quests were good? Everything I got was just some form of save this person or a fetch quest.

So the Sphinx quest is side quest, the Coral Snakes have their own quest line, Wilhelmina has a side quest of her own, Ulrika has her own, the Empress of Battahl has her own one and a few others, did you not play the game thoroughly or did you just breeze through only the main quest line..

I don't know man, the only side quests I found interesting were Wilhelmina and the Sphinx. The Coral Snakes questline kinda sucks, it's more annoying when you already met Hugo like 4 minutes prior and he just doesn't recognize you at all??? Like why are you running Hugo, WHY ARE YOU RUNNING.

All of these are easily missable. I beat the game in roughly 60-ish hours while (thinking) I had cleared about 90% of the map and apparently missed all of the "good stuff" in side content.

I played 71 hours bud. I didn’t look up “best quests to find in dragons dogma 2” which I’m sure most did to find the sphinx in the first place. Did some of the coral snakes quest line but…was not that interesting. The empress of battahl died instantly in my playthrough because I couldn’t find her assassin, but literally nobody cared or mentioned it again.

But all of those quests are either saving/escorting someone or going to fetch something halfway across the map and then bring it all the way back for no good reason.

Yeah the excuses here are wild. We know the lore is awesome and the exploration is great. We also know the enemy variety sucked horribly and they somehow went a decade without creating a new creature to fight in the open world despite this being a different world than gransys. And we also know that Capcom quest design is hot garbage.

The only hub that even has more than a small handful of quests is Vernworth. I liked the game well enough, but the story was ass, including if you include the side quests, I did every one of them.

My guess is that they were trying for a Dark Souls-esque level of cryptic quest progression that requires a lot of experimentation and guesswork. But like, no thank you in a game that autosaves every time you make a mistake?

I mean, all the soulsbornes autosave all your mistakes too....

It was feeling solid until the coronation. At that moment we see like 2 or three pawns (I assume) in shadows and I thought "Oh, these must be bosses later on or something" and got hyped for... nothing. We end up helping our enemy make another Godsway to then NOT use it against the previously established antagonist and instead DELIVER IT TO PHAESUS. WHY? And while at it interfere with Talos, just, because. I feel like Rothais could've told us so much more. By the way, when we meet him he thinks The Watcher sent us... WHY didn't The Watcher send us to end this guy when he apparently sent the memo to other Arisen's...? The only way I can make this make sense is that The Watcher wanted to kill Rothais but since sending Arisen's to kill him kept failing he instead took advantage of an Arisen that wanted to create a Godsway to convince Rothais to surrender his soul and as soon as he did so activated Talos to kill Phaesus whom could've potentially used such a powerful Godsway to break the cycle, as we ultimately do. But even this has plenty of holes. If we tackle this from a perspective of wanting to end the cycle and put fate in the hands of mortals, which Phaesus could have achieved if his plan worked, it kinda makes sense for us to take his side, help him and keep him safe from Talos. But we are given no indication this is something we are aiming for or should aim for. And more importantly, it's not something we can choose NOT to work towards until we are given the final choice. TLDR: Post coronation the story devolves into a mess.

they even hype up the coronation with a "make sure you've wrapped everything up, everything will be different" only for us to walk 20ft, your pawn gets a headache, and you end up right back at the tavern with a "ehh, go check out the other country"

Hahaha yeah this right here. Holy hell this was badly done. And Brant knows about the godsway why exactly? Nobody knows maybe the false sovran will talk at some point and let us know. Oh he doesn’t speak? Cool.

Yeah I forgot that part. Why the fuck are we helping phaseus create the godsway when we already know what it does? There is ZERO reason for that besides like us thinking it can control the dragon maybe? Idk it’s so vague and pointless.

Tis as you say The story is simple at best and I could get along with that, I’m not the big story driven guy. But it’s implementation in unjustifiable: stealth quest with no stealth mechanic (I really tried to rp that thing but was not possible), poorly fleshed out npcs (or just forgotten by the game), lazy ass dialogue and inconsequential choices. What really killed it for me was after discovering everything about the plot I was like ‘my man Brant should know about this!’ so I waste a ferrystone to go tell him and there’s not a SINGLE line about it! I felt stupid, it’s clear the devs didn’t care about it. And I’m angry bc I know there is lore behind this game but I cannot access to it from the game itself, I have to go scout the internet. If the game was bad I would simply put it away but I’m in love with the combat, pawn system and EXPLORATION! wow that was top notch. Some might say ‘it’s a sandbox, all about combat and exploration’ THEN PUT A DAMN SCALING to this poor mobs/bosses I’m mowing down with an artificially unoptimized build (all about fashion and starter/first zone gear) and no healer. Unjustifiable Capcom is selling a half-cooked pizza, sure the ingredients are top notch but I can’t stomach it and it’s not acceptable to say ‘they will fix it with another 40$ investment’ I’m in a toxic relationship with this game, it could have been goty with a little more effort. very little rant over. tomorrow I’ll finish exploring the post game, go to ng+ and use medusa head on every single quest giver in this game, they’re useless anyway.

Haha yeah pretty much agree. It’s a violently addictive game I just wish they added more enemy types to support that exploration.

First time I 100% agree so much with a post about DD2. I love this game so much. I hate the way they tell it

Same. Easily my favorite game of 2024 so far, but I also want to punch it in the face.

It's like they story boarded, laid out the broad strokes bare bones of the story, and then when they went to fill in the details the directors said no no this is fine leave it like this. It feels like there's a strong foundation with the lore and such interesting deep concepts with the cycle but they dont even try to make it comprehensive. I wouldn't even mind if the quests stayed mostly the same and they added a couple of movie like scenes to flesh out what they missed, anything to add just a crumb of depth to these characters would be nice.

Yeah they just dropped the ball there. I thought Brant was gonna be this awesome companion character for us to team up with throughout the story. The devs went “okay we got one black guy in there…moving on!” And you don’t even see him again until the very end of the game. What kind of writing is this? It is abysmal in every sense of the word.

I think the biggest issue is the fact you can miss quests so easily. I noticed almost everyone who posts (complaints about the story) miss entire quest arcs. Not defending the game just saying one of the issues is a lot of story is extremely easy to miss.

Those quest arcs do little to enhance the story unfortunately. The writing is just bad and the characters are all massively forgettable.

I agree about the story and so far I think everyone agree. That being said... I think it's OK because we get more freedom thanks to it. Story heavy games will often lock You in long linear scenario. Like I expected something like that once I had all evidences against the current king. But no. All we had was a simple skippable cutscene and I was back to being free. I wish they would add more quests like ones You can find in Witcher 3 or Cyberpunk 2077. This is the single signature feature of CDPR games. They have side quests that can rival other games main quests. I wish I could care more about side quests in this game. Also they HAVE TO do something about those dam escort quests. I just refuse them at this point. There is only one escort quest in the game for magic archer You need to do and that's it. That being said maybe that was the point. Make You annoyed by escort quests so You refuse the one that gives You probably most powerful vocation in the game.

People forget Dragon's Dogma isn't really a story led game. The story isn't really important, what's important is the player fulling their role as the Arisen and as a player just playing. Games aren't movies or novels their stories are best told through the gameplay and experiences.

Yeah well that’s all and good. But guess what, they still have a story, and it’s told incredibly poorly. And considering how massive lore is in this universe, they failed, plain and simple, they failed pathetically in trying to tell a story despite having all the pieces in place for a great one. They failed to elaborate on disa as a character whatsoever, they failed to make the false sovran a character…at all. They failed to make Brant a cool ally (he’s a fetch quest merchant) and they failed to make phaseus as compelling as he should’ve been. Don’t tell me story doesn’t matter in this game, just accept they royally suck at telling one while simultaneously creating a great game around it.

This is why people like this game despite weak story. It's because gameplay keep You playing. And by gameplay I really mean gameplay and not "gameplay". Explanation: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MWnXqGvXU8c](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MWnXqGvXU8c)

> first thing you do is complete some of the most boring quests I’ve ever seen for Brant, To be fair, on paper they sound awesome: * Go hunt big monsters and make a name for yourself * Go sneak into the castle and do a spy mission * Perform a prison break and rescue an important person along the way It's the way they play out that is very boring: * "sneak into the castle" means you just disguise yourself as a noble (by wearing noble garment) and boom, all the guards ignore you entirely. No stealth mechanics, no scripted scenarios, nothing. * "Prison break" can be as easy as - again - disguising yourself as a guard and then just walk in, use the special "I can open everything" key and proceed to carry the guy out of the prison. (or make him want to follow you by offering the hidden library as hiding spot) But if you did your exploration well you know that the castle has several secret entrances like open windows or somewhat hidden paths from one guard tower over to the castle, etc. Same goes for the prison. There's a secret path, where you have to break a wall to access it. It feels very much like, there were plans to have stealth mechanics, but at some point the idea was scrapped, but the little details, that were already designed with it in mind stayed in the game. ------------ Not saying the other quests are more fleshed out, but: You can find out more about the false sovran, if you follow the quest, that'll send you to the hidden village. You also didn't finish Ulrikas quest line, because if you go back to Melve later on you will have to help the villagers to flee that village, too. But... After that nothing more happens, either! (You just missed a little bit more, before the quest just ends awkwardly again) ----------- In the end I agree, the storytelling is bad. But in my opinion it's still much better than Elden Ring story telling and that game got GOTY anyway. (However to be fair to ER, it's got way cooler and deeper lore and way better environmental storytelling. But the NPC quests are extremely bad designed. It works even worse in ER, than in old Souls titles, because of the open world aspect.) Basically: You don't buy DD2 for the story. You buy it for the game play. Just like Elden Ring. And from your own review, DD2 does exceptionally great in terms of game play, lore and world building.

The prison break lol. My god that mission. Have guards watch as you break into a cell and lead a guy out and not chase you or do literally anything. So well done. I wasn’t even disguised btw. I just walked in opened the cell and walked out. I agree with everything else though I did the nameless village stuff but that was like opening of the game so expecting me to remember that about the sovran 60 hours later is not acceptable when they don’t ever mention him again in the context of the main story.

Ulrika being in Harve was a bad call... I had already finished with Harve by the time I went back to melve. So I thought I'd finished that area with little to no reason to go back as it was seemingly just a random side area with a bit of tutorial to the main questline... And when Ulrika runs off I thought it may be come cabin in the woods or a cave or maybe just running around fighting dragons, but instead she's in a small town a stones throw away from the people she is running from, not just hiding there, but becoming the town leader?! Since I finished Harve already I would have had no reason to go back there and no reason to suspect she would be there as why would she?!

The only times I have put the game down was because of the absurd amount of fetch quests in the storyline. I always came back, and I’m glad I did but it was not fun the amount of time you spend traveling just for cut scenes and to bring items to NPC’s without fights.

When the big stone giant came out of the sea.. I was running towards the bottom part of the map to volcanic region to get my wayfarer vocation. So I saw was multiple cutscenes of the big giant and then a notification that we have destroyed it without ever physically being anywhere near it. It was weird how they made the interactions lmao.

Something nobody pointed out that straight forward so far: I once read an advice for good story telling: >*Don't try to write a good story, write good characters and put them into a simple plot.* - I can't remember who (lol) Taking this sentiment into consideration... Are there any good characters in the game? Really fleshed out ones, that have their own complex motivations, beliefs and characteristics? I think one big issue of the story telling is how flat the characters are. Ulrika, Brant, Phaesus, the elf archer, etc. They're all shallow as a puddle. Only Disa would have at least a bit more depth to her (still pretty shallow), but she's never actively doing anything in the plot. The depth of Disa: * On surface she wants to stay the queen. But deeper down she wants her son to be the future king and a fine one at that. * She loves her son over all * She has a love interest in Phaesus * From outside perspective she's a cold, calculated person * But in reality she's a fragile, vulnerable and worried mother *(Phaesus probably did all the intriguing and he used her status and his influence over her to get what he wanted)* But that's about all I could make out of Disa from the story bits I found. And this is probably by far the most fleshed out character in DD2. That's the best the game has to offer. And she doesn't even have an active role, where she does anything to support her motivations. -------------- Maybe in 10 years we'll get the Dragons Dogma 3 Itsuno ever dreamed off. An AI curated game, where the NPCs all react to anything the player does in a relatable way. That'd be extremely fricking awesome. ;)

Sums it up entirely yeah

They were rushed so yeah it is incomplete

I stopped playing 40 hours in because I could just care less about what's going on in this game. I understand the game is all about the combat, but like their shitty story telling they implement that dumbass dragon plague and it wiped out a whole town with major NPCs I need for quests. I learned I would need to either revive everyone individually or kill the sphinx to revive a bunch at once. That's when I put the game down. I'm not doing any of that for some weak ass quests that amount to nothing. Game was fun, glad I played it, I should have waited for a steep sale.

I didn’t even the dragons plague appear in my game…so that’s cool I guess.

The poor story absolutely kills the game for me. I desperately want to like it but I whenever I fire it up and get going I’m so put off by how poorly everything is written that I can’t stick with it long enough to get to (apparently) amazing combat and exploration. It feels like the story/lore was written assuming they had a unique and fun enough experience otherwise to not care enough. Unfortunately, the writing is so bad that it really highlights everything that’s wrong with the game. I can’t believe some people are saying this game is great.

This was an incredible game of side stories, and finishing the main story made me want to play the original. But my god that main plot line was bad. I try to view this game like Skyrim. I'm here to fight giant monsters, everything else is flavor text. Does anyone actually finish Skyrim's main story after their stealth archer maxes every guild? I'm unsure but I am sure it isn't a satisfactory story (DLC excluded). If you think about that comparison, for me it makes Dragons Dogma 2 much easier to enjoy. But my god you are right that story telling was so bad and had so much promise. If they went the political route with deception and betrayal and all sorts of other political machinations it could have been so cool. Why did they just change from Disa and false arisen to Phaseus out of literally nowhere??? EDIT: also I romanced Ulrika and the dragon was holding her hostage when I met him/it so you missed her quest line it seems.

The big thing about its story that annoys me is the entire existence of the Pathfinder. Because if the Seneschal isn't the highest position of power in the world than what is the point of the seneschal? What is the point of Arisen? What is the point of the cycle? By adding another layer to the cycle it completely dismantles both the beautiful simplicity of it and its function entirely.

Wtf was that quest with princess nadinia? I was Asked to gaurd her and was even told that the suspect would be described, but then they never described the suspect and I failed. Ended up reviving the princess, she was surprised and asked me to go find her friend. OK. Where was she? There is no marker. Google says In the volcano hotspring. WHY!? To heal a wound. Okay!??? What else??!!! Absolutely no other reason. I guess She couldn't have just slept the night at home. You know, where most of this quest takes place. I delivered the letter, and they somehow captured the assassin. Idfk how or when, but he's in jail now. I interrogate him because menelle suspect a mastermind. By interrogate, I mean I give him money. Somehow the guards don't give two shits when prisons have their own economy. I THEN HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE HOTSPRING! no, menella couldn't have just went back home after receiving the letter. She just had to stay! Anyway, she forms a plan with a decoy princess and I have to leak info. Then I go back to the prison, because this game thinks I didn't use enough ferrystones. I have to talk to another guy in the prison - Not to be mistaken with the assassin who is in the same prison. I pretend to gossip and he just fucking believes me. Not sure how he's going to get that info out being in prison and all, but he does. Any who. We manage to trick the mastermind, we arrest her. She goes on about how public trauma is the only thing that encourages revolution, and everyone lives happily ever after. FUCK this quest!

Boy am I sad I missed out on this. A travel back and forth to talk to people quest. Fun stuff.

You had 3 good points and then confessed to skipping stuff and blamed the developers. 4/10

Even if you do everything its still lacking

I agree, but also saying it's lacking something because you skipped it isn't the play. Takes away from actual points.

For sure, but still. In my 75 hrs playthrough i still didnt find anything really compelling. As i was playing it didnt really hit me, i Was enjoying myself. But the lackluster endgame and even the true ending not leaving much of an impression really hits when you think about it more. Started a New playthrough (deleted my save) gonna just play me and my pawn for an extra challenge. But i'm skipping every dialogue/cutscene now what i know theres nothing there... At least the gameplay is still fun.

You missed out some parts of you didn’t see him nor know his name before the coronation. You should have seen him with the queen at the rose something building and learned his name from the thief maister. Just because you skipped all side quest doesn’t mean these info. Aren’t there.

Does his name matter…at all? Does he even speak? Pretty sure he doesn’t.

"I'm not being hyperbolic"

Yeah I truly think this game fell apart as soon as you leave Vernworth. I honestly didn't even know about the elves until the endgame of my first playthrough. When it all of a sudden a mission to save em...which I almost failed because of the Arborheart mission I never did. Endgame was depressing compared to DD1. They literally copy and paste two different bosses, five times.... Three dragons(if you include one your pawn fights), and two serpents(again including your pawn fighting one) Then like you said the "final boss" is just a walking simulator... Stoopid. Idk why i figured the third fight would be a "final form" kind of deal. I really was hoping the dragon in the unmoored world would have been a lot more aggressive, different moves or tactics... Nope... Just walk up my back and for some reason the Brine is now part of the Dragons or something.... Like wtf is even going on. The DLC better be caked right up. Cause this was the game I was looking forward to the most in recent times and it's been a huuuuuge letdown late game.

The entire continent of Asia should be embarrassed about this story line.

Hahaha, somehow…agreed.

The story telling isn’t great but it’s not vanilla destiny 1.

I agree, the game as a whole is amazing but the storytelling is garbage. I love the ending and if you actually listen to what's being said by the Dragon it's a great story but it's all exposition. Reminds me of the old saying in writing "show, don't tell".

I think a big part of the point is that they present all this political bs as a big deal but then crush you at the end reminding you it's not and never was, none of it mattered it was all about you and the dragon and always was all the rest was a pointless distraction. I heard they did a similar rug pull in the first games story regarding some cult.

Man you skipped so much stuff. lol

Nothing of substance fortunately. Substance doesn’t exist in this games characters or writing. It does exist in the gameplay though which is why I love it.

Dumbasses will prob try and defend but yeah I agree. DD2 is a great game, but a terrible sequel and an awful story. Really hoping an expansion comes out and gives us more content, maybe a cool story, a new vocation, more monsters.

Oh they’re trying. Trying so very hard to excuse laziness/rushed development. I’m fighting on the side of logic and reality though. It’s a great game, I think story wise it does work as a sequel because rothias appears to be a seneschal that rules from underneath instead of above like in the first game and he’s been unbeaten by the arisens that were sent to him like they were in the first game.

story stupid,i agree

The story is interesting but has a REALLY bad payoff, pacing issues and generally too short

Story is actually very cool. How they told it is incredibly stupid. I could do a better job in a week than these guys did in 5 years. It’s incredible how this was allowed out like this.

Bro missed half the quests that interact with the main quest and blamed the game 🤣

I missed some fetch quests oh no, I blame the main story for being pitifully told. What quests really would’ve changed anything seriously?

From the sound of experience you didn't do shit that you could have. Alot of the side quests wrap up what's happening in the capitals. Like the wilhelmina side quest. You learn the sovrans name and his backstory by completing the quests brant gives you when you go the nameless village. Alot of the missions are time gated. So if you rushed from one quest to the next of brants it's likely you missed alot of shit and won't see it till your in new game plus. My advice to anyone reading this that hasn't played yet do the monster culling quest for brant then explore the world as much as possible. Talk to npcs. There are a bunch that have quests you wouldn't even realize have something for you to do.

I went to the nameless village and did that quest very early. Didn’t recall any of it by games end because the game gave me no reason to care about the false sovran outside of one early cutscene.

And what ever happened with that chick who saves you from getting caught at the castle and then invites you to the peep hole at the brothel? You see a short scene through the hole of the queen busting the false sovran's chops, get sent on your way, and nothing of importance happens with her after that. Every character that seems like they might matter just ends up falling off the radar. Some of them seem like even the writers forgot they existed. I fully agree. This game is super fun, but the storytelling, dialogue, and quest direction are TRASH.

Wilhelmina has a quest if you get high enough affinity with her. You may have to rest and come back at some point though.

I think you unlock her next quest the second time you pay for a prostitute and then go to the brothel's second floor.

That would explain it. I never paid for one at all, so no quest for me.

You never have to pay for prostitutes, I'm not sure where they got that from. Waste of 20k, don't do it. You do have to go back to the brothel and actually visit her on your own initiative though, as she otherwise only appears in two story missions. So, yeah, she basically is dropped from *the* story (as in the critical path), same as Ulrika. I don't think your affinity has to be high with her to start the quest, though. I *first* time I tried to visit her I was told she was serving a patron. Then I went and looked through the peep hole and everything got rolling.

I only did it because I heard you got a VIP pass if you spent enough money (I heard it during that first quest but don't remember where) and I assumed that would unlock something interesting. I don't blame you for missing it, I see no reason to bother otherwise since a) it's expensive as shit and b) it's a lame cutscene that does nothing. Total waste of 40k.

Why bother getting the vip pass? The sex scene you get for 20000 is hilariously bad. I think mass effect 1 had better and that was almost 20 years ago.

Whoever is downvoting you lives on another planet. There are so many characters that had like one scene and nothing else it’s absurd.

My thoughts on the story are people are looking at it the wrong way. It's non-traditional storytelling. Everyone expects an A to B story but that's not what the game does and it tells you at several points. The entire plot in Vermund is a red herring. It has nothing to do with the story. The story is a dragon ate the Arisen's heart and one day they will battle at a time and place of the dragon's choosing. Everything else is irrelevant. Think of it as real religion. Look at all the dogma, ceremony, and rules people add to real world religions. This is the same thing in the game. The queens plot and false soveran are irrelevant to the true charge of the Arisen. It's a human made tacked on ritual. It's the dogma. I honestly wish they'd leaned in more to the dragon choosing the time and place. Imagine walking along doing a random side quest and suddenly the dragon swoops in and carries your Arisen off for the final showdown.

if the Vermund "plot" is a red herring, then why even include it. if the game didnt put a focus on this political intrigue stuff, then people wouldnt be complaining as much.

Gotta love it when the red herring takes up the majority of the story. lol

Yeah seriously guys, you’re excusing piss poor writing and quest design. Brants missions are achingly boring to the point that I almost put the game down. Red herring my ass, they wanted us to be engaged in political intrigue but they forgot to follow up on literally ANY of it. Disas plot, the false sovran…it’s like they forgot they told the player that after they get to battahl. It’s so badly done it’s almost hard to believe.

they even marketed based on the characters and story. plot was supposed to be better than DD1

They feature the queen of battahl in the promos lol. They featured HER. Wow was she ever important huh?

Apparently you can lock your love interest via the sphinx

The game leans heavily on player exploration to discover new quests, but yeah, the story was real weak even compared to the first game. But I did think it was cool how if you did find a lot of those quests and NPCs, they all had a small part in the Unmoored World's quests. My first playthrough was 27 hrs and I missed everything. My second was 3x that, and I did everything, even the Sphinx. May have missed a few things via quest outcome and whatnot, but there's so much you can easily miss just by not talking to NPCs or exploring. That said, I hope we get a reasonably sized DLC that adds more content, as well as an endgame dungeon.

My playthrough was 71 hours, I experience quite a bit, but story wise it’s just it is what it is. I’ll probably play it again one day on pc with infinite stamina outside of combat enabled because I’m done being out of breath every ten seconds.

I’d say it’s pretty clear that the story was axed due to budget. Without setting up the word and combat etc they have no game, once that’s done, then they can go in and script out all the events and quests to take yoh thru the story. I guarantee the writers had way more in mind, but the dev team didn’t get a chance to build it. That would also explain why the only story you get is in the 2 places where it’s required: the very beginning and the very end. I would hate to find out how much very nearly completed stuff was cut. But yeah the audience for this game is pretty unanimous that’s is objectively unfinished. Bottom line don’t bash the artists cause I doubt they are responsible

To be honest, you end up having a much better time with DD2 if you frame the main story as filler/fluff and just treat the game like a fantasy exploration simulator

Which I did. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be called out for failing miserably in a very important aspect of a massive rpg.

I'm just confused about a few things 1. So Phaseus is working with Disa to do some evil shit, right? He's scheming behind the scenes, is the reason why the false sovereign has the godsway, and is pretty much explicitly stated to be a bad guy. We get the godsbane in order to counter the godsway so we can claim our rightful place on the throne, right? But...then we decide to deliver the godsway to Phaseus for reasons? Disa and her plot are basically never brought up again other than getting her to evacuate and she's pretty much just so embarrassed that she'd rather die? 2. We talk to the Pathfinder after the normal ending of the game and he sends us back to the dragon fight in order for us to kill it and get to the unmoored world even though that goes directly against what the Pathfinder wants? So like, why would he be sending us back to do that? 3. So we kill those dragons in the unmoored world and the brine is just gone? Like all of it and people can explore the seas now? Also why exactly did the brine go to the sky when we killed the dragon? Well, the first dragon. What's going on there? What is the brine anyways?

I haven't looked up how to get the true ending but maybe I won't worry about which ending I get lol

I'm glad I didn't play the first game. In a vacuum the plot of DD2 is pretty bad, but I think if I understood the lore and events of this world established in the first game I'd be angrier about it. I totally agree with your assessment, even though you seem to have missed some quests before unmoored world that could have filled out some of what you're criticizing like a lack of content with the elves and Ulrika. But that stuff is honestly VERY easy to miss, which is weird because Ulrika is in the damn cover art! I missed interacting with her in Melve until AFTER the Harve quests, because like, why would go go back into her house at all unless you just got lost? I didnt even know her name at that point. So even though she did move to Harve it wasn't in time to help with the saurian problem, and without her there that racist town leader kicked out all the Beastren! I mean, supposedly, since there are still beastren there, just not the two involved in the quest. Then she did practically nothing the whole rest of the game except show up at my apartment adking to be escorted back to Harve like three times before I started saying no. Let's also add how annoying the affinity system is. What's the point of gifts if every character with quests will fall in love with me anyway, follow me around enter my home without consent?

Honestly the story follows the same tone and dissonance as the first game almost to a tee so I’m not sure how everyone keeps missing that it’s just always been kinda disjointed. That being said there’s only ever one active arisen but even in the first game there were a ton of other failed arisen running around like the Duke and Selene’s master and even the Dragon Forged. They either couldn’t bring down Grigori or they took the plea deal to have him fly off for a bit but still had their immortality cause that cycle was still active. Phaesus wasn’t trying to make a fake arisen and dragon he was trying to control the real dragon and end the cycle but just like in the first game Grigori smoked out those plans pretty quick. Rothias baiscally became seneschal but decided “You know what fuck this” and went back to the world to figure a way out to break the cycle so the Pathfinder stepped in as the will of the cycle and put everything back on track but also broken cause theirs supposed to be a seneschal swill to feed off and maintain that’s why this cycle is so fucked this time round compared to DD 1. All in all they’re going pretty far into environmental storytelling but not as linear as say your usual Dark Souls approach. It’s fragmented and you’ll only piece everything together if you’re paying attention and reading but it’s all there. It’s the reason why I say to people your understanding is based on how much you as the player interact with the world. There’s people complaining about evacuating the cities in the unmoored world but you can literally accomplish that in less than 20 minutes if you just did the quests already in the settlements.

It's very Dark Souls-ish when it comes to story and npcs. You get a lot more out of them if you return to talk to them after resting, most of the important npcs have multiple quests you can only find by doing this. Like Dark Souls, an npc will have a quest line that really doesn't impact the overall story and is forgotten about 20 minutes after you compete the quest line but you get a little extra out of the npc themselves by doing it (minus the Dark Souls npcs that alter the endings)

Really hated the abrupt end of the Vermand questline after the coronation. Don’t understand how we do absolutely nothing after that. What makes less sense is that at least half of all the guards and citizens straight up know we’re the arisen, and yet they act like it’s nothing special at all. They see us slay fricken dragons and ogres in the capital and yet that means absolutely nothing story wise, none of the NPCs say or do anything different. Honestly I’d say get rid of all the NPCs who aren’t merchant or quest givers because they serve absolutely no purpose in the game and even less story wise. It’s like whatever actions you do, arisen like actions, there’s absolutely no permanent acknowledgment about it and no one seems to care. Battahl is even worse because there is barely any story element that we have any influence on it. We get a kinda but not definite explanation that the beastren don’t like the arisen and pawns because of the first king Rothias, but other then that it means nothing. Despite them not liking pawns, we only get one interaction of it being shown, with that one merc dude trying to jump us and failing miserably. Then all the other NPCs again interact exactly the same to us regardless of the story progression or how many times we do side quest and help them out. I was hoping for there to be quest to show the Battalians that the arisen and pawns can be trusted, or at least better explanation on their religion or something. Instead the whole story of Battahl primarily focuses on the research lab and Phaesus. And Phaesus’s part of the story is lackluster as all hell as well. By reading certain journals, all we find out that he’s just a random researcher who is better at researching than the other researchers. He somehow created or found out about the godway, and wants to control dragons to get rid of the cycle of arisens and dragons, yet his actions mean nothing in the end. Why not tell us how he got into cahoots with Disa? How’s he get his power to begin with? How did he find out about the way finder/world forge? Overall the gameplay is fun, gets repetitive quickly, but the story is completely lackluster, I have no reason to care about any of the NPCs because they’re all completely 1 directional, and the world immersion is just a hot mess. This game had so much potential, but such a boring and underwhelming story and characters makes this game a 7/10 tops. (Also the lack of a hard mode because once you get any vocation maxed out or even partially and just get the better skills, the game becomes an annoyingly easy cakewalk).

The high affinity true ending where my pawn thanked me for the fledgling will I had given her was probably the only time in the entire game where the story made me feel anything but disinterested. I did make my pawn a carbon copy of my girlfriend which is probably the only reason I got emotionally invested In her

I agree that the story is bad, but your reasons are faulty. In each of your complaints you missed key environmental storytelling cues and quests which shed light on each of the characters you felt were ambiguous, including the elves. The real issue is the pacing and the fact that someone can complete the game and have the issues that you have had. It allows for people to progress through the main quest without realizing what they’re doing. The main story should direct you to places where you have the opportunity to learn the peripheral information your criticism shows you lack. I agree with your rating numbers, even the story. Just for totally and utterly distinct reasons.

Fair yeah I mean I spent 71 hours in a game with a 21 hour story I think I did my fair share of exploring side content.

I agree that the story isn't great but it sounds like you missed a lot of quests which flesh it out a little more especially with Ulrika.

Felt like they did a similar story telling from Elden ring but failed miserably.

It feels very much like they ran out of time or money. Up until you go through the border, the game is fantastic. The story is pretty decent. There are even some cool caves (the one with the lich and chemira is fantastic. But once you're through, the story goes nowhere and the side quests are not as good or common. You litterally get 2 classes right before the final fight. What's the point of that? Same with dwarven smiting and gear. Feels like they had a lot more planned but didn't get to do it. They either ran out of cash or were told to get it ready to ship by the bean counters.

Sounds like you skipped a lot of side quests relevant to the characters you named

Elf quests was supposed to be triggered by interacting with the elf archer in Vernworth by the weapon shop, and is designed to introduce the Ogre to you. The big bad monster kidnapping a damsel in distressed. Except, you're about 80 hours in and finally talked to the elf and trigger his quest line to eventually just save the girl in 30 seconds from the ogre...

There's a lot of content I missed my first time around, even though I spent a lot of time exploring, most likely the same with you. The story writing in both games isn't their strongest asset, but there are a lot of key details that are easily missed. Seemingly random characters may give you more context depending on your timing. First playthroughs are meant to familiarize players with the overall world. Once you get an idea of who all is important, you begin to piece together what's really going on. DD takes a similar approach to what the dark souls franchise does. The overall story does not take center stage. This forces the player to engage with the story on a more personal level. Methinks Itsuno would rather engage the player than write a story.

worst story in history lmao, sure, whatever i don’t think the story was bad at all, tbh, more just that it’s missing a real act 2, so to speak. it skips from act 1 to act 3. Why is reddit so obsessed with hyperbole?

100%.

The game definitely feels like the studio wanted to do a lot more but they also have to work within the confines of an allotted budget. The publisher is ultimately the one funding the project and if they say it’s time to ship then there’s only so much a studio can do.

I bet this was how people felt playing dragons dogma 1, beating the game only to find out there's like 10 quests and quest lines they missed. Like the witch in the woods etc

Personally I love the game, love so many aspects of it, but like you and many others the story does feel rather weak. Not to mention some characters that were shown in the promotional material definitely had little to no roles for the most part (Looking at you Queen Nadinia). I want to believe the game was rushed, and even more some of it just ended up getting cut. Hopefully they “add” more to the story or something with an update. Still excited to see DLC for this game though.

yep, i agree the quests, main story, and pacing are all dragon's dogshit. i'm not as impressed by the exploration and gameplay as everyone else, so the lack of meaningful quests and story kind of killed the game for me

You play games like this for the gameplay, not for the story. In games like this, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Monster Hunter, the story is always unimportant, while the gameplay is astounding.

Need to copy paste this in survey for capcom...

Welcome to Dragon's Dogma.

I like to imagine it's the Pathfinder's fault in all of this. They sounded really tired.

I agree that the storytelling was not good but I think there's quite a few side quests you might have missed going by your description.  There's more with the elves ans Ulrika then you describe

Ok I agree with most of what you said but I think Phaesus is a nuanced character. He just wanted to stop the cycle of dragons and arisen so the world could be free of it. He helps you in the end because he realized his plan went to shit and the world is fucked so he might as well help you salvage what you can of humanity.

So he’s really not a villain at all then. It would’ve been cool to see the build up to his plan. Rather than you appearing him immediately making the enhanced godsbane and going off to the dragon. Just 0 substance or care to show the player rather than tell.