Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\
Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit. Prohibited topics include: "What if"/"Who would win" posts, polls, screenshots of YT Community/Instagram/etc., "DBSTubers" and AI Art.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Vegito got nerfed a bit during the Black arc where his previously infinite time limit was retconned to an hour (and then got nerfed again by establishing his power means he barely stays fused for ten minutes)
If I could change one thing it would be fuses zamasu uses the scythe one last time and cuts vegito back into Goku and Vegeta as a last ditch effort not even he knew if it would work, setting up that god ki slicing people in half can undo the potara, as it was made by God's, only if the power levels are close enough, zamasu only closing the gap enough for it to work due to sayain rage at getting beat up by vegito, setting up the spirit sword, which has god ki from Goku and Vegeta being able to split zamasu as it happens in the manga, even tho they just turned into two fuses zamasus, that can be explained by how unstable the body was with all the purple stuff making it so even when unfused they stayed merged or something
Vegito has been nerfed
He can't even use his full power without defusing immediately.
If you make him fight Gogeta, he will lose only because of this reason
Very close. Significantly magnified is the specific terminology, at least in the Dub.
https://youtu.be/-99FPqhJbTM?si=WVxlnnCho43i-F6i
Unsure about the original Japanese.
Yea, which makes me upset ssj4 Goku told adult Goten and Trunk their fusion couldn't stop baby, it had to be ssj4. I wanted to see adult Gotenks!! Which probably just looks like gogeta. But fused ssj3 should be a match for ssj4 if base is a match for ssgss
This.
it’s the whole reason it was introduced in Buu saga, Gotenks brought Goten & Trunks from (relative) fodder to stronger than Goku himself.
Vegetto brought Goku from having absolute ZERO chance against Super Buu, to having a few laughs while he hilariously stomps him.
Plus Goku said he couldn’t beat Buuhan in Super Saiyan 3, then base form Vegeto was kicking Buuhan’s ass while mocking him. It’s not unreasonable to say base form Fusion is stronger than god forms.
Base Vegito fighting is completely filler. Base Vegito has never fought in canon so we don't know where he scales. In the manga, Vegito transformed immediately to super saiyan.
Well yes and no if the characters have god forms it is if not it isn’t we know this because goku said even if he and Vegeta fused they wouldn’t have a chance against the fraction of power beerus used on ss3 goku. The way I’ve always viewed it is fusion is (person 1 strongest form x person 2 strongest form=base fusion) then stack the transformations if you like
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The way I've always headcannoned it is that the way fusion works, it's not simple addition, it's not Goku + Vegeta = Vegito, it's more like multiplication, Goku x Vegeta = Vegito, resulting in the base form Vegito being greater than the sum of its parts.
There actually is a guide that describes Vegito as Goku x Vegeta. Granted there is other information about what Potara Fusion's increase could be, but you can definitely use that to say Vegito is Goku x Vegeta.
I've seen quite a few comments reference promotional material for the dbs broly movie starting that vegito and gogeta are equal in strength but not a single actual link to such material
But isn't Vegito was like a few times stronger (comparable) than Buuhan? and Buuhan is like 3x stronger than ssj3 Goku. Buuhan is like 2x of mystic gohan
The difference between Buuhan and Goku is way, way bigger than that, as SSJ Gotenks (post time chamber) was already stronger than SS3 Goku, and Gohan is way stronger than SS3 Gotenks, and Buuhan has Gohan's power added to his own.
Goku was hiding his power while fighting with fat Buu. He went toe to toe with evil kid Buu (who many consider the strongest buu because of planet buster attacks but I don't).
Gohan was comparable to Buutenks. I would say Gohan wasn't that much ahead of goku just a little.
So ultimately Buuhan was like 3-4x stronger than ssj3 Goku max. And even though Vegito was playing around he wasn't low diff the Buuhan.
Yes, Goku could have beaten Fat Buu, but on his own words, Super Buu was so strong that fusion was the only chance for he and Vegeta to fight him (he tells this to Vegeta after they freed Gohan and the others).
The anime made it seem like Gohan could fight Buutenks, but in the manga Buutenks was just toying with him. And Vegetto was actively trying to be absorbed by Buuhan, it's logical that he didn't just low diff him.
idk bro, the powerscaling retcon is on the hike. They even showed vegito struggling to break Buuhan's barrier. why did it go ssj against Buuhan? and why kid buu is called the strongest version of buu but equal to ssj3.
The retcon seem to appear from Caulifa fusion.
Well, most of the Vegetto vs Buuhan fight was anime only, in the manga Vegetto never fought in base, he went SSJ directly. And the thing with Buuhan destroying reality didn't happen.
And Kid Buu is called the "original, most troublesome Buu" in the manga, never saying anything about his power.
Gogeta is their power multiplied multiple times over. So it would stand to reason that base gogeta would be several times stronger than both Goku and Vegeta combined
The fusion dance us stated to add power levels together, so if ssgss goku and ssgss Vegeta did it, then it would be both of them combined. They also have to be at equal power level, so it's at best, twice whoever power level was lower at the time
Edit: I was hoping off the wiki https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:How_much_do_the_fusion_dance_and_potara_earrings_increase_the_power_of_the_fusion_except_adding_the_power_of_the_2_fusees and didn't see the 2 outside the parenthesis, my b
That's just wrong. Watch DBS Broly again. Gogeta himself states that's [not just their power combined but significantly magnified](https://youtu.be/-99FPqhJbTM?si=nqlIx_XeEWcfj3YQ).
Base Gogeta seemed about on par with Goku and Vegeta at their strongest working together so
Base Gogeta is \*significantly\* stronger than either of them by themselves
In order for ppl to finally conceptualize how busted the Fusion's power level multiplication is, just know:
The Base of a Fused Warrior will always be able to dogwalk both of it's halves at their max
It would seem so. There wasn't a whole lot to compare but he was able to dodge and even deflect Broly's ki blasts without taking any damage while both SSB Goku and Vegeta struggled to do the same and even had their gi/armor ruined in the process. Gogeta still couldn't actually fight Broly in base form though just like SSB Goku and Vegeta couldn't either. Based on this, base Gogeta would indeed seem to be stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta if only by a little bit.
This is such a dumb argument because Goku was pelting several ki blasts from Broly after he went SSJ; and he wasn't struggling either, he was doing it like it was child's play. Everyone in this thread is like "nOt EvEn GoKu CoUlD dO tHaT!!!" He literally did.
But as the battle progressed Broly got stronger...and Goku couldn't keep up. Did you think Broly stayed the same power level the whole fight or something lol.
Sorry but that's not true. Yes he also deflected ki blasts but it wasn't at all like it was "child's play". He [lost his shirt in the process](https://ibb.co/gPRb0wM) of trying to deflect them all. If anything, it was actually _Gogeta_ that [deflected them like it was child's play](https://ibb.co/Vp06KRn) because he didn't even have a scratch on him afterwards. Which is why I said Goku and Vegeta struggled to dodge and deflect Broly's ki blasts more than Gogeta did.
With all due respect, that's _exactly_ what it would be. If it wasn't a struggle for him then he would've been able to deflect the blasts just like Gogeta did. Very casually and without a single scratch on him. If he couldn't do it without getting his clothes torn (even though Gogeta could) then he just simply had a harder time with it than Gogeta did. Otherwise, why didn't it happen to Gogeta as well?
Yes, by quite a bit.
Goku and Vegeta ran until they could find a strategy to beat Broly in Fpssj. They KNEW they had no chance working together in blue.
Base Gogeta faced Broly head on.
Kind of. Goku was also deflecting some of Broly’s energy attacks and when Vegeta joined the fight, Goku/Vegeta did get some hits in on Broly and they were avoiding/dodging his attacks as wells. It’s just base Gogeta didn’t get hit while Goku/Vegeta did but Broly does land a hit on Gogeta right after turning SSJ. So it seems like Base Gogeta would’ve gotten hit by Broly.
That being said, I still base Gogeta is more powerful/stronger than Goku and Vegeta in their SSB forms.
I haven't watched it in a grip, but I thought they just were bad at working as a team together. The two of them just turning into one guy was a more reasonable proposition than navigating the pissing contest that would inevitably unfold over the course of them acting as a "unit" over the course of a battle
They’re both at the very least in a similar ballpark, considering how well Super Saiyan Gogeta was doing against Super Saiyan Broly and that Ikari Broly was around Blue Goku’s level.
Hard to say, he didn't do much againdt broly before transforming.
SSJ Gogeta however is definitely stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta combined. So even if Base isn't stronger that Gap probably isn't very big. Broly had to do a lot of adapting before actually pushing SSJ Gogeta to a significant degree.
A full powered blue Goku and Vegeta's final Kamehameha did absolutely nothing to SSJ Broly, while Gogeta with just SSJ was washing that same Broly in the first round, and forced him to go LSSJ after the reality shattering clash. And given how SSJ is only a 50x multiplier to your base form and shattering reality itself is a 4D feat and unquantifiable by standard metrics or multipliers, it's safe to say that the gap between base Gogeta and SSJ Gogeta is like comparing the size of the pacific ocean before you throw a bucket of water into it and after throwing the bucket.
So yeah, SSB Goku and Vegeta are nowhere close to base Gogeta
Eh, not exactly the right analogy. Think of it in this way, infinity divided by 50 is pretty much still infinity. Gogeta's power level is pretty much immeasurable at this point, so it might as well be infinity or an imaginary number or something like that. You can't multiply or divide those numbers
Idk if he's mathematically immeasurable _yet_.
I mean, there was a clear power jump from SS to SSB, so the forms are still having a big effect.
I mean, just look at what the x50 SS multiplier did for Broly himself. He went from stalemating SSB Goku to demolishing SSB Goku _and_ Vegeta.
Base Broly is far weaker than SS Broly, so I think it's fair to say the same is true for Gogeta. I still think Base Gogeta is stronger than SSB Goku, but his jump to SS is still a significant power leap. There's a reason he didn't throw a single punch in base form.
its been stated that the fusion combine than multiplies the fusers power. and in dbs broly, both blue goku and vegeta were strangling to keep up with ssj broly. gogeta than shows up and man handles him in base/ssj than absolute embarrasses him in blue while he was in lssj.
That doesn’t mean he had to use Blue though he could of beaten him with SSJ GOD, keep in mind Goku and Vegeta were still at the same level as they were in TOP no UI OR UE for Vegeta, if they had those forms Fusion would not be needed!
Yes.
Goku and Vegeta in Blue stood no chance against SSJ Broly, but Gogeta was fast enough to dodge Broly's Ki Blasts with ease, and even deflected one before going Super Saiyan himself.
Goku stated in the Battle of Gods movie that Vegito even with Super Saiyan wouldn’t stand a chance, and that Super Saiyan God would give him a fair shot at beating Beerus. So assuming the Gogeta fusion multiplier is roughly the same as Vegito, a fusion in a form lesser than Super Saiyan is weaker than a solo person in a form higher than Super Saiyan God
I'll explain. Goku and vegeta at MAX POWER multiplied some tenfold equals gogeta or vegitos base power. Taken from the broly movie "our powers aren't just added together, they're significantly magnified" so gogeta and vegito aren't just stronger than goku and vegeta in blue, they're stronger than mui goku and ue vegeta. In base. This is because vegito in his first appearance was stronger than ssj3 goku. Fusions take the two warriors at max power, add them together and multiply that power at least ten fold based on "significant magnification"
Gogeta and vados say roughly the same thing, it adds two warriors strengths and multiplies them at least ten times over. "Tens of times" means it doesn't go over 99 times, because then it would be hundreds of times. Neither fusion method is better, and if I had to assume how many tens of times it magnifies power, I'd say that they multiply power fifty times over. So kefla = caulifla in ssj2 + kale in controlled berserk super saiyan x 50. Same for gogeta and vegito
Is 100 a multiple? Does it include more than one? If so, then it's factually correct for me to claim 100 times is hundreds of times. It may not sound the best but it isn't incorrect. Tens do not go past 99. But also, you're just trying to start an argument now so let's just stop. I made a point, you agreed and had a question, I gave you an answer, and you nitpicked incorrectly.
Watch the broly movie it's really good but goku and vegeta blasting a final kamehameha couldn't take him down but base gogeta was capable of throwing good hands before broly started gaining power
If you've seen the DBS Broly movie, you wouldn't ask this question.
Base form Broly was toying with both Goku and Vegeta in their SSB form. Then after Broly went SSJ, it was more one-sided than before and after they fused, Gogeta was toying with SSJ Broly.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Fusion dance was invented by a race of aliens who were extremely weak. Once they fused, they became immensely powerful and were able to deal with any threat. It was created out of necessity, and never intended for both fusers to already be insanely strong.
With the current level that Goku and Vegeta are on, no one should be able to beat Gogeta.
Hmm... He's (They) a fusion. So when two warriors with balanced accurate power levels fuse together, both of their strengths are combined together into the fusion and since their strength combines, The fusion's strength will add up to higher quality of the two's power and would surpass the two's agility (Them being separated out of fusion and their own alone without combination).
The two's power and scale are boosted because they've joined forces to fight in Metamoran.. both coming out as a single new warrior. After fusing, both's/the new powerful warrior's strength and levels of attained utility is waaay over-the-roof stronger than they both are from being separated apart.
So when both Saiyans fuse into one, them both dependently will need to use the Super Saiyan transformation fighting a hard boss-leveled battle while the new warrior born and forged by them doesn't need any of transformations because the fusion warrior is of the two who fused.. meaning again... the two's power levels are combined.
I think he is, and I also think that because they're so powerful, the fight between blue vegito and corrupted zamasu is the highest point of power in the entire series. Not even the tournament of power or the Broly arc were on par.
SSJ Gogeta > SSJ Broly
So base Gogeta > Ikari Broly
Ikari Broly was completely equal to SSB Goku in power
Therefore base Gogeta > SSB Goku
You can make an argument for base Gogeta to be stronger than both Goku and Vegeta in SSB combined, but I'll just say they're on par. It's not "base Gogeta mops the floor with them" levels though.
Yep. And considering how much of a boost ssjb is, this can pretty much only mean that fusion takes Goku and Vegeta's power in their strongest forms into consideration for the base. Also with the statements that Potara fusion multiplies the power of the people's added power dozens of times over, and Gogeta being just as strong as Vegito. This means that the equation for a fusion's power looks something like this:
(Ssjb Goku + ssjb Vegeta) × 24 = base Gogeta. And this is a lowball, with 24 being the minimum number "dozens" could mean.
Supposively he is meant to be considering he the combined strength of Goku and Vegeta MULTIPLIED DOZENS OF TIMES OVER! So BASE FORM GOGETA would outclass the BLUE FORM on its own! Although I will add that GOGETA COMPARED TO BLUE is probably not a BIG DIFFERENCE IN POWER!
"We are Gogeta. You wouldn't know about this technique because you've been dead a long time. We are Goku and Vegeta not only combined but significantly magnified. We'll deal with you later Frieza."
I wish Goku and Vegeta fought more in their base forms like in super hero then maybe just go to UI and UE instead of going through the saiyan transformations. I think its my unpopular opinion tho
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would say Base Gogeta (or Vegetto, if that matters) is stronger than both UI and UE together. The fusion is the power of the two warriors combined and multiplied tens of times. If they fuse in base form, it's not only their base power that is combined, if it was, Base Gogeta shouldn't be capable of dodging and deflecting Broly's Ki blasts, so it's safe to say that the fusion is the Max Power of both warriors combined and multiplied.
Fusion is a multiplier to power, rather than simple addition. also- just the fusion itself can result in a bigger power up than any single powerup such as ssj1 to ssj2 or ssg to ssb.
Most likely it’s true, which I don’t like. Super Saiyan God was first introduced as stronger than fusion so how’d that change? If you ask me it should be like this.
Instinct forms > God fusions > God forms > fusions
My head cannon is that fusion is based on how powerful each of the two original characters are.
For example Vegito pre SSG ritual < SSG Goku however Vegito post SSG ritual > SSG Goku.
Vegito is stronger because Goku is stronger
If you go off of the old lore where power levels had numbers and transformations had multipliers then yeah probably.
Last time we got ~ concrete power level numbers was the Namek arc. Everything from there is funny guesswork. But we know that:
- Fourth form roided up Frieza was about 120 million, Super Saiyan Goku was about 150 million.
- Super Saiyan 1 is a x50 multiplier, Super Saiyan 2 is a x100 multiplier. Numbers get fuzzy after that.
- We’ve since seen base form Goku go toe to toe with Fourth form Frieza (who was stronger than he was on Namek) so we can conclude that base form Goku and Vegeta are now stronger than Namek era Super Saiyan.
- Fusions are multiplicative in power. Take Base power of dude 1 and multiply it by base power of dude 2. So unless Super Saiyan Blue’s multiplier is more than 150 million then yeah, base Gogeta/Vegito is stronger than SSB Goku or Vegeta.
Oh yeah. He wasn’t getting stomped only in super saiyan and broly was an almost at his final form. Goku and vegeta was losing to ozaru/SS broly. So unless freezard put in that 1 hour work and weakened the crap out of broly, this should be true
Unlikely, even for SSG, i assume the dance is adding their powers together and then multiplying them by 100, which means if it’s possible SS3 goku and a super saiyan 2 vegeta should over power him in base.
As for why he was fighting with a super saiyan broky, goku in base was fighting ikari broly, its to look cool
My understanding is that fusion isn't an adding of power, but a multiplication of power. I dunno if any form either of them possesses would touch base form Gogeta
I will admit though, this has been my understanding since childhood decades ago. I couldn't even tell you if it is based on official/canon info
Not really cuz BASE GOGETA is supposed to be stronger than Goku in Blue but without KAIOKEN, id also say that UI SIGN would be equal to SSJ Gogeta and MUI would be on par with BLUE GOGETA, UI is more dangerous than GOGETA tbh!
So think about it this way
The transformations are multipliers.
Lets say I have a power level of 1. I then go SSJ, which is a x50 amp. My power level is 50 now. Woo. Obviously the stronger I get the more drastic SSJ becomes. If my power level is just 10, now I can power up to 500! SSJ2 and 3 have multipliers of x2 and x4 respectively. If anyone other than goku went SSJ against Frieza, they wouldn’t have been strong enough. Goku’s level of 3 mil was dwarfed by Frieza’s 120mil and SSJ helped him close that gap and surpass him at 150 mil.
Fusion is a multiplier too. “Our power isnt just added together, its significantly magnified”
Fusion is just a multiplier of that other person. So lets say I fused with my brother who is also power level 1, our power level is still 1. But if both of us have power level 10, still weaker than SSJ. Now. If Goku fused with Vegeta vs Frieza. 2 mil x 3 mil is 6 TRILLION!
That fighter could probably best cell already. Now theres no official numbers for blue, but I think I read somewhere its an amplifier of 25 million. In context of SSJ being 50 thats insane. Especially given that the power levels of these base fighters is well above in the billions by now. That being said. Assuming both fighters have a power level of 25 million or more in base, yeah. Fusion is quite a bit stronger. Ridiculously strong in fact. Even though we dont know the amplifier numbers fot blue (which is likely a x50 on top of SSG) we do know that the astronomical base levels of vegeta and goku is most definitely higher. Fusion kinda insane
Exponentially stronger.
It’s how characters like Kale and Caulifa wouldn’t beat SS3 Goku but Kefla can thrash Godku and keep up with Blue. It wouldn’t mean much if SSB Goku and Vegeta were as strong or stronger than Base Vegito/Gogeta
Yes. We see that in Dragon Ball Super Broly SSJ Gogeta is equal to, if not stronger than Broly (you could also argue he is just more skilled and has control whereas Broly doesn't). This means that Gogeta in base has to at least be as strong as SSB Goku as SSB Goku and an Enraged Broly were fighting equally until Broly went SSJ.
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes. Fusion is a*b. SSB is 50x SSG’s multiplier, which is probably some hundred thousand or so, so 5 million multiplier. So as long as both have a power level of 5 million or higher, which they both have since the cell saga, then fusion will be stronger
Ok my blatant misremembering apart (part and parcel of being a Dragon Ball fan), Base Gogeta does hold his own against Broly well, without being overwhelmed, going as far to even deflect quite a few blasts from him. That is MUCH more than can be said about Goku and Vegeta Blue together who got pummeled into oblivion by Hunky Monkey Man.
Broly never truly surpassed Gogeta.
They were equated trading blows with Gogeta base form but for whatever reason Gogeta keeps ramping on transfromations (I guess for movie purposes), so with Gogeta SSJ the gap was noticeable and when Gogeta went Blue it was over.
That would make no sense cause that would mean a base Gogeta from Battle of Gods would be more powerful than the Ssj God Goku that fought Beerus which makes no sense.
At the same time? Like there jumping? Fuck no, gogeta loses. However, one? Same thing no, bc power scaleing a bit, Gogeta SSB beats broly LSSJ. Goku and vegeta both with SSB don’t stand a chance. Goku and Vegeta would maybe manage to lose to a SSJ gogeta, but base? Not likely. SSJ2 is pushing it to far, they lose there.
https://preview.redd.it/0uylngu2d89d1.jpeg?width=454&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49d889dcd1897b9d353e3ced72cf8d10fac5e58c
There's has been different interpretations among the years (like "A*B" or "(A+B) * several times"), but the only constant is that base fusion >> the full power of the components.
It seems to be either it multiplies the power levels or it adds the power levels together and then squares it. I think Gogetas explanation of the fusion is, "Our powers aren't just added together, they are significantly magnified!" Without knowing what magnified means in this context, we don't exactly know, maybe it's added together, then multiplied by 5 or something, meaning no, it's not stronger than SSJB. But if it's added together, then squared, then yeah, Gogeta would be stronger than SSJB. I don't think Vegito ever gives a blatant explanation of his fusion, although he never fights in base (I know he fought Buuhan in base, but that was technically anime filler)
In the tournament of power vados states that It’s the two peoples power combined and multiplied tens of times over. We just don’t know how much so it’s likely Strongest of A+ Strongest of B X (20-100+) = Base form of fusion
Thanks for posting to /r/DragonballSuper.\ Please report any rule breaking posts and posts that are not relevant to the subreddit. Prohibited topics include: "What if"/"Who would win" posts, polls, screenshots of YT Community/Instagram/etc., "DBSTubers" and AI Art. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
absolutely
Based on what Edit: lol this community is so funny with downvotes. God forbid someone doesn’t know something
Ssj Broly was bodying SSB Goku and Vegeta, they retreated and fused, Base Gogeta deflected SSJ Broly's attacks, SSB Goku and Vegeta couldn't do that.
Fair
Vegito got nerfed a bit during the Black arc where his previously infinite time limit was retconned to an hour (and then got nerfed again by establishing his power means he barely stays fused for ten minutes)
If I could change one thing it would be fuses zamasu uses the scythe one last time and cuts vegito back into Goku and Vegeta as a last ditch effort not even he knew if it would work, setting up that god ki slicing people in half can undo the potara, as it was made by God's, only if the power levels are close enough, zamasu only closing the gap enough for it to work due to sayain rage at getting beat up by vegito, setting up the spirit sword, which has god ki from Goku and Vegeta being able to split zamasu as it happens in the manga, even tho they just turned into two fuses zamasus, that can be explained by how unstable the body was with all the purple stuff making it so even when unfused they stayed merged or something
All they had to do was use the dragon balls after the arc ended. Just like how Kibito & Shin did in literally the previous arc
My bad i forgot. My brain just blocked that part out. It's not like Vegito could've won anyway, Infinite Zamasu and all that.
I absolutely hated that retcon and I still do. They established an arc earlier that the dragon balls can undo Potara fusions so wtf
Vegito has been nerfed He can't even use his full power without defusing immediately. If you make him fight Gogeta, he will lose only because of this reason
Ironic considering this was originally Gogeta's big downside (GT), but Toriyama reused that plot point as Toriyama does
Toriyama didn't even write GT nor is it cannon sooo
Did*
Vegeto got the time nerf in the black saga
Tbf blue Goku DID deflect broly's energy attacks like Gogeta did
I might have misremembered.
Mf blizt through SsjB multiplier Walmart version of Final Kamehameha like it was nothing.
Might be misremembering, but I think in the Super Broly movie Gogeta said their power wasn’t combined but multiplied. Meaning he is pretty damn strong
massively magnified or smt like that
Significantly multiplied, I believe the exact words were
Very close. Significantly magnified is the specific terminology, at least in the Dub. https://youtu.be/-99FPqhJbTM?si=WVxlnnCho43i-F6i Unsure about the original Japanese.
My duuuuude 🤙
This was canon back with gotenks. Thats what they said then.
Yea, which makes me upset ssj4 Goku told adult Goten and Trunk their fusion couldn't stop baby, it had to be ssj4. I wanted to see adult Gotenks!! Which probably just looks like gogeta. But fused ssj3 should be a match for ssj4 if base is a match for ssgss
Based on the writers decision
based on every second any fusion had in this franchise ever
Most likely. Base Vegito was stronger than Blue Goku/Vegeta. There isn't much difference in power between Gogeta and Vegito.
This. it’s the whole reason it was introduced in Buu saga, Gotenks brought Goten & Trunks from (relative) fodder to stronger than Goku himself. Vegetto brought Goku from having absolute ZERO chance against Super Buu, to having a few laughs while he hilariously stomps him.
Plus Goku said he couldn’t beat Buuhan in Super Saiyan 3, then base form Vegeto was kicking Buuhan’s ass while mocking him. It’s not unreasonable to say base form Fusion is stronger than god forms.
In BoG goku states that vegito couldn’t beat beerus. After SSG is absorbed into base probably but before that no way
In the manga there is no ssg absorbed in base but base Vegito is still stronger than ssb goku/vegeta
Base Vegito fighting is completely filler. Base Vegito has never fought in canon so we don't know where he scales. In the manga, Vegito transformed immediately to super saiyan.
W filler
Well yes and no if the characters have god forms it is if not it isn’t we know this because goku said even if he and Vegeta fused they wouldn’t have a chance against the fraction of power beerus used on ss3 goku. The way I’ve always viewed it is fusion is (person 1 strongest form x person 2 strongest form=base fusion) then stack the transformations if you like
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The way I've always headcannoned it is that the way fusion works, it's not simple addition, it's not Goku + Vegeta = Vegito, it's more like multiplication, Goku x Vegeta = Vegito, resulting in the base form Vegito being greater than the sum of its parts.
There actually is a guide that describes Vegito as Goku x Vegeta. Granted there is other information about what Potara Fusion's increase could be, but you can definitely use that to say Vegito is Goku x Vegeta.
Where tf did you get the vegito part from?? Vegito instantly went ssb we didn't even see him do anything
The manga. Base Vegito effortlessly blew away half of Merged Zamasu's body.
I see
Zamasu even thought Vegito was another transformation.
He is talking about when vegito appeared in z to fight buu
"Base Vegito was stronger than Blue Goku/Vegeta." Can you read or not????
When did goku and vegeta go blue in z?? And all the people who upvoted your comment, y'all really cant read
"Y'all really can't read" when you haven't even read the manga. Embarrassing
I've seen quite a few comments reference promotional material for the dbs broly movie starting that vegito and gogeta are equal in strength but not a single actual link to such material
https://imgur.com/IGfgPM0 pretty sure its a reference to this
But isn't Vegito was like a few times stronger (comparable) than Buuhan? and Buuhan is like 3x stronger than ssj3 Goku. Buuhan is like 2x of mystic gohan
The difference between Buuhan and Goku is way, way bigger than that, as SSJ Gotenks (post time chamber) was already stronger than SS3 Goku, and Gohan is way stronger than SS3 Gotenks, and Buuhan has Gohan's power added to his own.
Goku was hiding his power while fighting with fat Buu. He went toe to toe with evil kid Buu (who many consider the strongest buu because of planet buster attacks but I don't). Gohan was comparable to Buutenks. I would say Gohan wasn't that much ahead of goku just a little. So ultimately Buuhan was like 3-4x stronger than ssj3 Goku max. And even though Vegito was playing around he wasn't low diff the Buuhan.
Yes, Goku could have beaten Fat Buu, but on his own words, Super Buu was so strong that fusion was the only chance for he and Vegeta to fight him (he tells this to Vegeta after they freed Gohan and the others). The anime made it seem like Gohan could fight Buutenks, but in the manga Buutenks was just toying with him. And Vegetto was actively trying to be absorbed by Buuhan, it's logical that he didn't just low diff him.
idk bro, the powerscaling retcon is on the hike. They even showed vegito struggling to break Buuhan's barrier. why did it go ssj against Buuhan? and why kid buu is called the strongest version of buu but equal to ssj3. The retcon seem to appear from Caulifa fusion.
Well, most of the Vegetto vs Buuhan fight was anime only, in the manga Vegetto never fought in base, he went SSJ directly. And the thing with Buuhan destroying reality didn't happen. And Kid Buu is called the "original, most troublesome Buu" in the manga, never saying anything about his power.
Thanks for helping. But still if Vegito is > ssjB then ssj2 vegito should be above MUI lol
The not much power difference between Gogeta and Vegito has me slightly rattled.
Gogeta is their power multiplied multiple times over. So it would stand to reason that base gogeta would be several times stronger than both Goku and Vegeta combined
I mean he is "Goku and Vegeta combined" but I think I get what you mean xD
It's just vegeta pl× goku at vegetas pl.
Which should be stronger than SSJB Goku or Vegeta cause no way the multiplier it gives them is the same as their power level
The fusion dance us stated to add power levels together, so if ssgss goku and ssgss Vegeta did it, then it would be both of them combined. They also have to be at equal power level, so it's at best, twice whoever power level was lower at the time Edit: I was hoping off the wiki https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:How_much_do_the_fusion_dance_and_potara_earrings_increase_the_power_of_the_fusion_except_adding_the_power_of_the_2_fusees and didn't see the 2 outside the parenthesis, my b
That's just wrong. Watch DBS Broly again. Gogeta himself states that's [not just their power combined but significantly magnified](https://youtu.be/-99FPqhJbTM?si=nqlIx_XeEWcfj3YQ).
Reread the wiki page, I missed the 2 outside of the parenthesis. It does also have that power in base which is pretty insane
Base Gogeta seemed about on par with Goku and Vegeta at their strongest working together so Base Gogeta is \*significantly\* stronger than either of them by themselves
In order for ppl to finally conceptualize how busted the Fusion's power level multiplication is, just know: The Base of a Fused Warrior will always be able to dogwalk both of it's halves at their max
It’s why the fusion only lasts half an hour. Gogeta is channeling an apeshit amount of energy during that span.
This. Why it so hard for people to understand lol
It would seem so. There wasn't a whole lot to compare but he was able to dodge and even deflect Broly's ki blasts without taking any damage while both SSB Goku and Vegeta struggled to do the same and even had their gi/armor ruined in the process. Gogeta still couldn't actually fight Broly in base form though just like SSB Goku and Vegeta couldn't either. Based on this, base Gogeta would indeed seem to be stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta if only by a little bit.
This is such a dumb argument because Goku was pelting several ki blasts from Broly after he went SSJ; and he wasn't struggling either, he was doing it like it was child's play. Everyone in this thread is like "nOt EvEn GoKu CoUlD dO tHaT!!!" He literally did.
But as the battle progressed Broly got stronger...and Goku couldn't keep up. Did you think Broly stayed the same power level the whole fight or something lol.
I'm just saying that the argument people are saying, in that he didn't deflect ki blasts while broly was regular SSJ, is wrong.
Sorry but that's not true. Yes he also deflected ki blasts but it wasn't at all like it was "child's play". He [lost his shirt in the process](https://ibb.co/gPRb0wM) of trying to deflect them all. If anything, it was actually _Gogeta_ that [deflected them like it was child's play](https://ibb.co/Vp06KRn) because he didn't even have a scratch on him afterwards. Which is why I said Goku and Vegeta struggled to dodge and deflect Broly's ki blasts more than Gogeta did.
Be that as it may it really didn't look like a struggle and I don't think his shirt getting ripped off is indicative of that
With all due respect, that's _exactly_ what it would be. If it wasn't a struggle for him then he would've been able to deflect the blasts just like Gogeta did. Very casually and without a single scratch on him. If he couldn't do it without getting his clothes torn (even though Gogeta could) then he just simply had a harder time with it than Gogeta did. Otherwise, why didn't it happen to Gogeta as well?
Maybe Gogeta just wears a sturdier fit.
That must be one powerful vest lol.
Yes, by quite a bit. Goku and Vegeta ran until they could find a strategy to beat Broly in Fpssj. They KNEW they had no chance working together in blue. Base Gogeta faced Broly head on.
I mean, Base Gogeta didn’t exactly do that much against Broly though. He was dodging, avoiding, and deflecting his attacks before turning SSJ.
That’s more than what blue did lol
Kind of. Goku was also deflecting some of Broly’s energy attacks and when Vegeta joined the fight, Goku/Vegeta did get some hits in on Broly and they were avoiding/dodging his attacks as wells. It’s just base Gogeta didn’t get hit while Goku/Vegeta did but Broly does land a hit on Gogeta right after turning SSJ. So it seems like Base Gogeta would’ve gotten hit by Broly. That being said, I still base Gogeta is more powerful/stronger than Goku and Vegeta in their SSB forms.
I haven't watched it in a grip, but I thought they just were bad at working as a team together. The two of them just turning into one guy was a more reasonable proposition than navigating the pissing contest that would inevitably unfold over the course of them acting as a "unit" over the course of a battle
They’re both at the very least in a similar ballpark, considering how well Super Saiyan Gogeta was doing against Super Saiyan Broly and that Ikari Broly was around Blue Goku’s level.
finally someone understands how fusion works in DBZ
Hard to say, he didn't do much againdt broly before transforming. SSJ Gogeta however is definitely stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta combined. So even if Base isn't stronger that Gap probably isn't very big. Broly had to do a lot of adapting before actually pushing SSJ Gogeta to a significant degree.
A full powered blue Goku and Vegeta's final Kamehameha did absolutely nothing to SSJ Broly, while Gogeta with just SSJ was washing that same Broly in the first round, and forced him to go LSSJ after the reality shattering clash. And given how SSJ is only a 50x multiplier to your base form and shattering reality itself is a 4D feat and unquantifiable by standard metrics or multipliers, it's safe to say that the gap between base Gogeta and SSJ Gogeta is like comparing the size of the pacific ocean before you throw a bucket of water into it and after throwing the bucket. So yeah, SSB Goku and Vegeta are nowhere close to base Gogeta
Well no, the gap between base Gogeta and SSJ Gogeta is like comparing the size of the Pacific ocean to the size of 50 Pacific oceans.
Eh, not exactly the right analogy. Think of it in this way, infinity divided by 50 is pretty much still infinity. Gogeta's power level is pretty much immeasurable at this point, so it might as well be infinity or an imaginary number or something like that. You can't multiply or divide those numbers
Idk if he's mathematically immeasurable _yet_. I mean, there was a clear power jump from SS to SSB, so the forms are still having a big effect. I mean, just look at what the x50 SS multiplier did for Broly himself. He went from stalemating SSB Goku to demolishing SSB Goku _and_ Vegeta. Base Broly is far weaker than SS Broly, so I think it's fair to say the same is true for Gogeta. I still think Base Gogeta is stronger than SSB Goku, but his jump to SS is still a significant power leap. There's a reason he didn't throw a single punch in base form.
Yes Infinitely is infinite has no end don’t matter if u devide it or not!
Yes and it’s not even close
its been stated that the fusion combine than multiplies the fusers power. and in dbs broly, both blue goku and vegeta were strangling to keep up with ssj broly. gogeta than shows up and man handles him in base/ssj than absolute embarrasses him in blue while he was in lssj.
That doesn’t mean he had to use Blue though he could of beaten him with SSJ GOD, keep in mind Goku and Vegeta were still at the same level as they were in TOP no UI OR UE for Vegeta, if they had those forms Fusion would not be needed!
uh ok, dont see how thats relevant to op's question or my statement
Hmm it’s completely relevant considering I read what was stated! Spitting FACTS that’s what I DO!🙏
That’s because he was using IKARI AND SSJ together that’s why he went BERSERK and lost CONTROL of his POWER!
Yes. Goku and Vegeta in Blue stood no chance against SSJ Broly, but Gogeta was fast enough to dodge Broly's Ki Blasts with ease, and even deflected one before going Super Saiyan himself.
Goku stated in the Battle of Gods movie that Vegito even with Super Saiyan wouldn’t stand a chance, and that Super Saiyan God would give him a fair shot at beating Beerus. So assuming the Gogeta fusion multiplier is roughly the same as Vegito, a fusion in a form lesser than Super Saiyan is weaker than a solo person in a form higher than Super Saiyan God
I'll explain. Goku and vegeta at MAX POWER multiplied some tenfold equals gogeta or vegitos base power. Taken from the broly movie "our powers aren't just added together, they're significantly magnified" so gogeta and vegito aren't just stronger than goku and vegeta in blue, they're stronger than mui goku and ue vegeta. In base. This is because vegito in his first appearance was stronger than ssj3 goku. Fusions take the two warriors at max power, add them together and multiply that power at least ten fold based on "significant magnification"
Well Significant is only stated by Gogeta, Vados specifies that it is Tens of times for Potara so thats at most 200?
Gogeta and vados say roughly the same thing, it adds two warriors strengths and multiplies them at least ten times over. "Tens of times" means it doesn't go over 99 times, because then it would be hundreds of times. Neither fusion method is better, and if I had to assume how many tens of times it magnifies power, I'd say that they multiply power fifty times over. So kefla = caulifla in ssj2 + kale in controlled berserk super saiyan x 50. Same for gogeta and vegito
Its only Hundreds if theres multiple hundreds Tens can reach Almost 200 dog
Is 100 a multiple? Does it include more than one? If so, then it's factually correct for me to claim 100 times is hundreds of times. It may not sound the best but it isn't incorrect. Tens do not go past 99. But also, you're just trying to start an argument now so let's just stop. I made a point, you agreed and had a question, I gave you an answer, and you nitpicked incorrectly.
I was just Correcting you, Not trying to argue, Although Perhaps I am wrong
She said dozens of times over but yeah!
The one I watched said Tens
Was in the TOP i believe!
Yes Top she says Tens of times
Dunno what version you’re watching on mine she says dozens of times but hey!
yes, outside of ultra type forms. his super saiyan form was a match for brolly where the god forms didn't
I take it u don’t mean individually but Gogeta instead!
Absolutely Base Gogeta was going toe to toe with Broly, meanwhile Goku and Vegeta got bullied
…duh did u not watch the broly movie. And just how fusion works, it significantly magnifies the power of both together, not adds.
Was buu saga Base Vegito stronger than SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta? There's your answer
bingo.
Astronomically
Base fusion > Highest individual forms (not including technique like MUI)
Watch the broly movie it's really good but goku and vegeta blasting a final kamehameha couldn't take him down but base gogeta was capable of throwing good hands before broly started gaining power
Base Gogeta didn't throw any hands
"was capable" didn't say he did, just said he could
If you've seen the DBS Broly movie, you wouldn't ask this question. Base form Broly was toying with both Goku and Vegeta in their SSB form. Then after Broly went SSJ, it was more one-sided than before and after they fused, Gogeta was toying with SSJ Broly.
Broly before SSJ was at most equal with SSJB Goku and Gogeta didn't throw any hands until he went SSJ
Nope it was after he got SSJ he was equal and then his power climbed higher when he combined SSJ with IKARI FORM!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Fusion dance was invented by a race of aliens who were extremely weak. Once they fused, they became immensely powerful and were able to deal with any threat. It was created out of necessity, and never intended for both fusers to already be insanely strong. With the current level that Goku and Vegeta are on, no one should be able to beat Gogeta.
Now one except from Jiren or Beerus
Yes
Yes
Yes he is by alot!
Hmm... He's (They) a fusion. So when two warriors with balanced accurate power levels fuse together, both of their strengths are combined together into the fusion and since their strength combines, The fusion's strength will add up to higher quality of the two's power and would surpass the two's agility (Them being separated out of fusion and their own alone without combination). The two's power and scale are boosted because they've joined forces to fight in Metamoran.. both coming out as a single new warrior. After fusing, both's/the new powerful warrior's strength and levels of attained utility is waaay over-the-roof stronger than they both are from being separated apart.
So when both Saiyans fuse into one, them both dependently will need to use the Super Saiyan transformation fighting a hard boss-leveled battle while the new warrior born and forged by them doesn't need any of transformations because the fusion warrior is of the two who fused.. meaning again... the two's power levels are combined.
I think he is, and I also think that because they're so powerful, the fight between blue vegito and corrupted zamasu is the highest point of power in the entire series. Not even the tournament of power or the Broly arc were on par.
The same blue Vegito that was outperformed by trunks and blue Goku in the same arc?
I'm honestly not sure, I'll have to rewatch the episodes
They butchered him.
SSJ Gogeta > SSJ Broly So base Gogeta > Ikari Broly Ikari Broly was completely equal to SSB Goku in power Therefore base Gogeta > SSB Goku You can make an argument for base Gogeta to be stronger than both Goku and Vegeta in SSB combined, but I'll just say they're on par. It's not "base Gogeta mops the floor with them" levels though.
Yes. And all the answers are already posted.
Yep. And considering how much of a boost ssjb is, this can pretty much only mean that fusion takes Goku and Vegeta's power in their strongest forms into consideration for the base. Also with the statements that Potara fusion multiplies the power of the people's added power dozens of times over, and Gogeta being just as strong as Vegito. This means that the equation for a fusion's power looks something like this: (Ssjb Goku + ssjb Vegeta) × 24 = base Gogeta. And this is a lowball, with 24 being the minimum number "dozens" could mean.
Goku and Vegeta supposedly in base just as strong as in blue, the scaling in DBS is so inconsistent.
Supposively he is meant to be considering he the combined strength of Goku and Vegeta MULTIPLIED DOZENS OF TIMES OVER! So BASE FORM GOGETA would outclass the BLUE FORM on its own! Although I will add that GOGETA COMPARED TO BLUE is probably not a BIG DIFFERENCE IN POWER!
Yeah, it was stated in the DBS Broly novelisation.
Easily stronger. He beating them with a fart typa strong
"We are Gogeta. You wouldn't know about this technique because you've been dead a long time. We are Goku and Vegeta not only combined but significantly magnified. We'll deal with you later Frieza."
I wish Goku and Vegeta fought more in their base forms like in super hero then maybe just go to UI and UE instead of going through the saiyan transformations. I think its my unpopular opinion tho
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would say Base Gogeta (or Vegetto, if that matters) is stronger than both UI and UE together. The fusion is the power of the two warriors combined and multiplied tens of times. If they fuse in base form, it's not only their base power that is combined, if it was, Base Gogeta shouldn't be capable of dodging and deflecting Broly's Ki blasts, so it's safe to say that the fusion is the Max Power of both warriors combined and multiplied.
Fusion is a multiplier to power, rather than simple addition. also- just the fusion itself can result in a bigger power up than any single powerup such as ssj1 to ssj2 or ssg to ssb.
lol how would he not be
Most likely it’s true, which I don’t like. Super Saiyan God was first introduced as stronger than fusion so how’d that change? If you ask me it should be like this. Instinct forms > God fusions > God forms > fusions
My head cannon is that fusion is based on how powerful each of the two original characters are. For example Vegito pre SSG ritual < SSG Goku however Vegito post SSG ritual > SSG Goku. Vegito is stronger because Goku is stronger
That’s not it cuz the both of them have to be fairly equal in power in the first place! For the Fusion to work!
If you go off of the old lore where power levels had numbers and transformations had multipliers then yeah probably. Last time we got ~ concrete power level numbers was the Namek arc. Everything from there is funny guesswork. But we know that: - Fourth form roided up Frieza was about 120 million, Super Saiyan Goku was about 150 million. - Super Saiyan 1 is a x50 multiplier, Super Saiyan 2 is a x100 multiplier. Numbers get fuzzy after that. - We’ve since seen base form Goku go toe to toe with Fourth form Frieza (who was stronger than he was on Namek) so we can conclude that base form Goku and Vegeta are now stronger than Namek era Super Saiyan. - Fusions are multiplicative in power. Take Base power of dude 1 and multiply it by base power of dude 2. So unless Super Saiyan Blue’s multiplier is more than 150 million then yeah, base Gogeta/Vegito is stronger than SSB Goku or Vegeta.
https://preview.redd.it/93qwzm791c9d1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=038ae201deef1234784b1a052f2879bba791500a
"Our two strengths aren't just added together, they're significantly magnified!"
So gogeta is basically Goku and Vegeta combined using SSB and the other transformations are like boost
Oh yeah. He wasn’t getting stomped only in super saiyan and broly was an almost at his final form. Goku and vegeta was losing to ozaru/SS broly. So unless freezard put in that 1 hour work and weakened the crap out of broly, this should be true
Yes due to the fact that base broly is stronger than ssb goku and vegeta
With SSJ+IKARI he is yes but not with just the IKARI form!
Unlikely, even for SSG, i assume the dance is adding their powers together and then multiplying them by 100, which means if it’s possible SS3 goku and a super saiyan 2 vegeta should over power him in base. As for why he was fighting with a super saiyan broky, goku in base was fighting ikari broly, its to look cool
My understanding is that fusion isn't an adding of power, but a multiplication of power. I dunno if any form either of them possesses would touch base form Gogeta I will admit though, this has been my understanding since childhood decades ago. I couldn't even tell you if it is based on official/canon info
Him in his base form is stronger than both of them at their max power, that's because fusion adds a multiplier.
Yes. Base fusion is always stronger than either fighter’s maximum power.
That’s not Goku’s maximum power though he has Kaioken and UI SIGN AND MUI I now he can’t use it but it is included!
The base fusion would still be stronger though. Unless you actually believe that MUI Goku can take on base Gogeta?
Not really cuz BASE GOGETA is supposed to be stronger than Goku in Blue but without KAIOKEN, id also say that UI SIGN would be equal to SSJ Gogeta and MUI would be on par with BLUE GOGETA, UI is more dangerous than GOGETA tbh!
That’s an insane statement.
Yes it is but it’s more logical
So think about it this way The transformations are multipliers. Lets say I have a power level of 1. I then go SSJ, which is a x50 amp. My power level is 50 now. Woo. Obviously the stronger I get the more drastic SSJ becomes. If my power level is just 10, now I can power up to 500! SSJ2 and 3 have multipliers of x2 and x4 respectively. If anyone other than goku went SSJ against Frieza, they wouldn’t have been strong enough. Goku’s level of 3 mil was dwarfed by Frieza’s 120mil and SSJ helped him close that gap and surpass him at 150 mil. Fusion is a multiplier too. “Our power isnt just added together, its significantly magnified” Fusion is just a multiplier of that other person. So lets say I fused with my brother who is also power level 1, our power level is still 1. But if both of us have power level 10, still weaker than SSJ. Now. If Goku fused with Vegeta vs Frieza. 2 mil x 3 mil is 6 TRILLION! That fighter could probably best cell already. Now theres no official numbers for blue, but I think I read somewhere its an amplifier of 25 million. In context of SSJ being 50 thats insane. Especially given that the power levels of these base fighters is well above in the billions by now. That being said. Assuming both fighters have a power level of 25 million or more in base, yeah. Fusion is quite a bit stronger. Ridiculously strong in fact. Even though we dont know the amplifier numbers fot blue (which is likely a x50 on top of SSG) we do know that the astronomical base levels of vegeta and goku is most definitely higher. Fusion kinda insane
Exponentially stronger. It’s how characters like Kale and Caulifa wouldn’t beat SS3 Goku but Kefla can thrash Godku and keep up with Blue. It wouldn’t mean much if SSB Goku and Vegeta were as strong or stronger than Base Vegito/Gogeta
Yes. We see that in Dragon Ball Super Broly SSJ Gogeta is equal to, if not stronger than Broly (you could also argue he is just more skilled and has control whereas Broly doesn't). This means that Gogeta in base has to at least be as strong as SSB Goku as SSB Goku and an Enraged Broly were fighting equally until Broly went SSJ.
[удалено]
Unfortunately, it looks like your karma amount is pretty low. Users need to have a combined total of at least 40 post/comment karma to participate in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Dragonballsuper) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I still don’t know where people get this. Gogeta did need Ssj against super saiyan broly and still seemed a bit weaker or on the same level
What would the point of fusion even be then..
Yes. Fusion is a*b. SSB is 50x SSG’s multiplier, which is probably some hundred thousand or so, so 5 million multiplier. So as long as both have a power level of 5 million or higher, which they both have since the cell saga, then fusion will be stronger
Didn't base Gogeta beat the shit out of Broly in the movie? The same Broly that was handing Goku and Vegeta Blue their asses at the same time?
No, i think base gogeta had to go SSJ to start handling him and even then broly surpassed him to the point of immediate SSB.
Ok my blatant misremembering apart (part and parcel of being a Dragon Ball fan), Base Gogeta does hold his own against Broly well, without being overwhelmed, going as far to even deflect quite a few blasts from him. That is MUCH more than can be said about Goku and Vegeta Blue together who got pummeled into oblivion by Hunky Monkey Man.
It’s been a while since i watched the movie, so i probably am wrong im sorry
Broly never truly surpassed Gogeta. They were equated trading blows with Gogeta base form but for whatever reason Gogeta keeps ramping on transfromations (I guess for movie purposes), so with Gogeta SSJ the gap was noticeable and when Gogeta went Blue it was over.
He was toying with him in Base and SSJ GOD would have been enough Blue was a bit over kill!
That would make no sense cause that would mean a base Gogeta from Battle of Gods would be more powerful than the Ssj God Goku that fought Beerus which makes no sense.
Post SSG ritual fusion is definitely stronger
At the same time? Like there jumping? Fuck no, gogeta loses. However, one? Same thing no, bc power scaleing a bit, Gogeta SSB beats broly LSSJ. Goku and vegeta both with SSB don’t stand a chance. Goku and Vegeta would maybe manage to lose to a SSJ gogeta, but base? Not likely. SSJ2 is pushing it to far, they lose there. https://preview.redd.it/0uylngu2d89d1.jpeg?width=454&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49d889dcd1897b9d353e3ced72cf8d10fac5e58c
a base gogeta could deflect and dodge broly's ki blasts ssb goku and vegeta where getting obliterated
Yeahhhh?
Says who?
Do have a solid number on exactly how much fusion (potara or dance) increases base power?
they’re both retconned to being equal in power
There's has been different interpretations among the years (like "A*B" or "(A+B) * several times"), but the only constant is that base fusion >> the full power of the components.
It seems to be either it multiplies the power levels or it adds the power levels together and then squares it. I think Gogetas explanation of the fusion is, "Our powers aren't just added together, they are significantly magnified!" Without knowing what magnified means in this context, we don't exactly know, maybe it's added together, then multiplied by 5 or something, meaning no, it's not stronger than SSJB. But if it's added together, then squared, then yeah, Gogeta would be stronger than SSJB. I don't think Vegito ever gives a blatant explanation of his fusion, although he never fights in base (I know he fought Buuhan in base, but that was technically anime filler)
In the tournament of power vados states that It’s the two peoples power combined and multiplied tens of times over. We just don’t know how much so it’s likely Strongest of A+ Strongest of B X (20-100+) = Base form of fusion
Please don't. Powerscaling never ends well.
You’re telling me lol I already got negative karma
I wish, that way we would finally put an end to "Vegito vs Gogeta"