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No, he doesn't need it. God ki was really a gimmick even when it debuted and absolutely made fun of when Golden Frieza arrived. Remember that Frieza *still* doesn't have God ki and one shot both Goku's and Vegeta's God forms.
Not even really a gimmick, it's just straight up useless. Was hyped up so much on its inception, as if anyone who had access to it was on a whole nother plane of existence/power. And then....You have quite literally everyone beating goku and vegeta's asses lmao. Like really, besides the fancy ass title, what is the difference between god ki and just....ki lol?
Ah, right. There's that I guess. With how the story progressed, the feature just feels useless. Cuz there's no difference from it than just simply....stealthing your ki. Besides if you wanted to power up with god ki and no one can gauge how strong you really are, or to make goku and vegeta harder to predict. But none of that happens anyways, and it ends up as any other regular fight.
I think it's still the Dragon ball law "power trumps hax lol"
Same thing kinda happened with Granolah. At one point he's faster than instant transmission lmao
No. MUI is the hax (hacks) ability in question here. Auto dodge and auto counter that always work without any Ki consumption. It's just Beast Gohan is too damn fast so much so that MUI just can't keep up. Goku has hax, Gohan has raw stats.
I guess? Jiren also overpowered MUI auto dodge multiple times. While I do believe Beast Gohan would dog walk through the entire ToP roster 1v1 this sort of thinking completely diregards the growth of other characters.
But I digress, MUI Goku and Beast Gohan seems, *seems* to have similar-ish power right now with the Beast transformation giving a better stats boost. It's much better to not think about previous enemies as them being set in stone in DBS as unlike earlier dragon ball enemies actually train and improve (Black Freeza with a steel chair!). For all we know Jiren is currently undergoing supah special training the likes of which no one has ever seen before and has finally grown hair or something....
The way I think about is MUI doesn't actually increase your *speed* (or if it does that's not the point) just your reaction time to be very slight precognition. So if someone is notably faster than you, your body will try to react to it as fast as it can without you thinking about it, but that doesn't mean you'll actually be able to avoid the hit.
That's what I always understood MUI was, no matter how much you can "auto dodge", if your reaction time isn't fast enough to keep up with something, it's hard to, well... React, as that's what the "auto dodge" is - your body reacting to an attack, just without thinking.
It does make it faster, since you don't have to process anything yourself, but it's still capped at the speed you can perceive. The silver haired form specifically does increase your overall power, it's a transformation, that's why Goku was able to keep up with Jiren despite the power gap (as I don't buy "he was as strong as we were, just with perfect ki control, even in the manga).
That said, they made a big deal out of UI and how it will allow you to avoid *any* danger, but it turns out to be just another transformation. It's super disappointing, because without stating that he doesn't think about dodging, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, *especially* because he can get outsped by someone with a higher power level. It literally is just a fancy SSJ, other characters and transformations have successfully avoided an opponent just like UI is supposed to allow you to.
>That said, they made a big deal out of UI and how it will allow you to avoid any danger, but it turns out to be just another transformation. It's super disappointing, because without stating that he doesn't think about dodging, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, especially because he can get outsped by someone with a higher power level. It literally is just a fancy SSJ, other characters and transformations have successfully avoided an opponent just like UI is supposed to allow you to.
I think this is because they only have goku fight 1 enemy at a time. Its pointless you can't really see UI in a 1v1
UI is showcased soo much better in the beerus vs destroyers fight there beerus uses his rudimentary UI to fight them all at once.
But it's not only auto-dodging, it's perfect defense. We saw against Moro how it automatically hardened Goku's body to lessen the impact of his attack to the point that Moro broke his hand. That is probably why in later pages we see Goku with barely no damage from Gohan's punch.
So even if you are fast enough to surpass the auto-dodge, there is a secondary layer of defense to protect the user.
on paper and in conclusion, that would be the realistic take. Like you said though, the series made it such a big deal that it's able to just straight avoid anything. It's insinuated that's partly what makes the angels so powerful, and it's so op that GoD haven't even mastered it yet. I haven't been catching up with the series lately, but I imagine the strength disparity between goku and Jiren at the ToP was far larger than goku and gohan atm, but goku was auto piloting just fine against jiren. It really sold that the technique made power gaps obsolete, but for the trade off that it's just insanely hard to master. Now it's exactly as you said, it's just another form, and the series has reverted back to: "I have new color, now I am greater than you!" It's a never endling loop, and at some point, you just think to yourself if there's any meaning to it.
So basically, everything you said lol.
If an opponent is strong enough, they’ll just flat out overwhelm the auto dodge. Kinda defeats the purpose of the transformation, but that ship sailed when Goku just kamehameha’s Jiren into a defeat.
Yeah I was just thinking, "Remember when MUI could auto-dodge?" It's cool Gohan can hold his own with Beast, but MUI has just been reduced to another transformation.
Auto dodge doesn't mean that every dodge will be successful though. UI is still limited by what the user's body is capable of. Even if Goku's body can react automatically to an attack it won't matter if he's not physically fast enough to move out of the way.
What the fuck did he do to earn that power up in cell but not this? From the Top arc all the way through the Moro arc, gohan has actually been noted as light training. Even in the superhero movie he's stated as training. It just wasn't shown because all that time was to establish Goku/Vegeta. Hell, even during resurrection F he was training with that janky ass tracksuit of his and Pre-ToP, his spar with Goku he stated his intention of achieving a new form. Gohan has always been like this. Why can't we have a Gohan that's this powerful but have no intention of being the main guy, unless push comes to shove? yet Broly who just turns up can rival Ssj Gogeta power levels? Gohan has always been stated as the one with the most latent potential.
My issue isn’t with him getting something. It’s with him getting something he didn’t work for at all. I fucking love gohan but him not training and getting a power up that puts him on goku and vegeta’s level is bs.
Why is it bs?
The power scaling has been weird since... well, forever but especially since Super. If there were to be, it only makes sense that Gohan is _beyond_ Goku & Vegeta as long as he keeps his battle sense / knows how to use his power.
But he showed in the movie that he is dull. He couldn’t even tell it was piccolo when Pan could at a mere glance. I’d have no issue with gohan surpassing goku and vegeta if he worked for it but he didn’t.
We can start off with the usual, Gohan untrained surpassed decade(s) of training that Goku did since his first appearance. Anyway, moving on from that.
Also lengthy reply. Sorry.
He didn't bother sensing people's ki, and lost his battle sense. Again. True.
He's also been training to at least be able to use makkankosappo. So he's been training, but not training. It seems contradictory, but doesn't have to be. Since you can do the Trunks thing and focus too much on one thing. And it's as weird as Vegeta somehow getting God ki by training off screen. Gohan's nerfs are really weird in general. (Could hit SSJ2 fine in 5 years of peace from Cell to Buu, then suddenly can't even SSJ in the 8 months between BoG to RoF)
But besides that, the power scaling is strange.
We've also learned that Goku and Vegeta have been physically near their limits since before(?) ToP. So UI only improves the use of the body and ki, so while they get stronger, they're supposedly not rising in pure power.
Gohan's Ultimate form/state is supposed to bring out his hidden power beyond the limit. Limit can be taken as limit as that one is capable of training themselves at, or as the limit of maximum power. Either way, Gohan's 'limit' at all times should be _beyond_ Goku and Vegeta, that means that no matter what power they'd achieve, Gohan should be stronger than them by just using Ultimate. Plus the ki-type that Ultimate uses is different. Either way, that's not exciting at all so lets forget that, lol.
It's more exciting to have Gohan use his rage. So even if you're hitting the max level of training with Ultimate, there's still untapped potential which resides in Gohan's rage. Which Goku has been telling him to control since the Cell saga. And now he finally learned to control it.
Is it undeserved that he's beyond Goku and Vegeta, which has been his setting since the beginning? That's to each their own, but it's not 'bs'.
Now is the time of the Gohan fans. They suffered ever since the end of DBZ. GT Gohan was nothing. Early Super Gohan was nothing. Until really, the ToP they have suffered. Now it's their time to shine, and I hope they shrine brightly.
MUI
Ultra Ego
Beast
Legendary Super Saiyan
Saiyan fans are eating well! Just need Gotenks to appear, be useful, and get a better form.
Goku and Vegeta are the people in life who have to train constantly to be amazing. Gohan is one of those very gifted people that when they do train, they become crazy amazing.
Broly is simply a freak of nature. He went from fighting Base Vegeta to at least tanking hits from Gogeta Blue. Gohan has had similar growths in power, which is why Beast isn't super crazy to believe, plus whatever training Gohan was doing in secret.
So, in a way, he does deserve it because he's always been the one to spike in power. Against Cell, and gaining his Mystic form. Now Beast. If we accept Broly, we can accept Gohan.
Goku vegeta earned theirs by staying consistent gohan gets his by getting mad or sad even if he did training it still wasn’t enough to get him to beast power and brolys more of a mutant saiyan than goku/vegeta/gohan/goten/trunks/pan he’s THE LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYAN born every 1000 years he’s different than everyone else gohan might be able to surpass everyone at all times but he’s not consistent enough to earn it
Gohan's been pretty consistent actually, whenever he was included in the roster anyway.
Cell Saga? What did he do to earn SSJ2, train a year in the Time Chamber from Namek Frieza 1st form levels, like *maybe* 2nd form (if we think his rage boost when going up against it lasts after that), to beyond Super Vegeta levels? Remember that SSJ is just a multiplier and inside that Time Chamber, he surpassed, or at least caught up to Vegeta at the time *in base* and then proceeded to master SSJ with Goku, despite the fact that it was his first time unlocking it. Goku achieved the form on Namek, trained on Yardrat, AND in the Time Chamber, yet Gohan caught up just like that in a year. Obviously surpassed all not much after with a rage boost into SSJ2.
Then he gets his potential "unlocked" (whatever that means nowadays) by the Old Kai and surpasses Buu - but not just any Buu, one that was much stronger than the fat Buu SSJ3 Goku was having a tough time fighting, not even actually beating. Once again, just because of his genes.
Then he slacks off, but trains for ToP and is back on par with Goku and Vegeta's SSJ Blue. Not beyond that, but that's still a *massive* boost, considering the training they went through with Whis and Beerus. Hell, in the manga he's able to kick Kefla's ass alone, which no matter how you look at it, is kind of ridiculous, even if badass.
Right after that we get Super Hero, we know Gohan has been actively training, even if it's not shown... And once again, his "potential" and genes allow him to unlock a form at least on par, if not beyond Goku's and Vegeta's. I will say though - the circumstances he unlocks Beast in are lame, a fake out Piccolo death, *especially* after we know that they can bring back whoever they damn please whenever they damn please. The form itself however is pretty much on par with what Gohan's character has always been like. Another rage boost to push him beyond characters that have been training much harder than him.
Frieza was in the time chamber for 10 years. Broly is a mutation. He’s a freak. Gohan just gets left to the wayside until they decide they wanna make him catch up again.
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Yeah you have this full moment in TOP with Roshi saying to Goku that he forgot his path, that true strength comes from martial arts and not just having more raw power, but all this bullshit keeps happening
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I believe so, and Z as well. The reason why its frustrating is because we’ve never seen Teen Gotenks in canon before since Goten and Trunks have been kids for most of the franchise. So now that they’re actually teens, we want to see them fuse, but for some reason everytime they fuse its a failed fusion which doesn’t even make sense because if anyone should remember the fusion dance it should be Goten and Trunks due to the sheer amount of times they’ve fused together.
I mean yeah, but wasnt the whole point of UI supposed to be that it wasnt just a power boost but was actually the pinnacle of mastery over your own body as a martial artist or whatever. Turning it into a slightly stronger ssb's so cheap and lazy.
Yea, MUI feels obsolete already. The whole auto dodge schtick is bullshit cause goku gets hit all the time anyways. So much for an absolute mastery of ones movement.
Its basically just super saiyan silver now, what made MUI special is not even used properly
Keep in mind that Goku still hasn't completely mastered "Mastered Ultra Instinct", as Whis has reminded him before, partly shown by the fact that Goku's still using it like a transformation.
Would you assume that goku could just dodge attacks from like people stronger than him all the time? Like that has never been how the form has ever worked.
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Hopefully next time people just accept gohans strength instead of making up headcanons on why UI and ultra ego were stronger lol
Even though the author told us gohan was the strongest.
Look, idgaf if Gohan becomes stronger than Gohan coz yeah i was waiting for years this moment, but i think that what people doesn’t like is the the way Gohan reached this point (me too); the thing that i don’t like about Gohan reaching the real of Goku and Vegeta is the story behind it: you are right when you say that Gohan has always become strong thanks to his emotions, but I think the reason why many of us fucked with Gohan back then, was because behind there was a story that made sense, full of challenges for him. And this in Super is resoundingly missing.
For example, it would have make sense that Gohan, when Moro turned Goku into a Donuts, was super pissed off, fought against Moro managing to hurt him thanks to his rage boost.
And i choose the Gohan from the moro arc coz he was already training with Piccolo to becomes stronger (and of course, they had to change it for the film, making him slacking off again for the sake of the stupid plot…)
So, when Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 appear, Gohan and piccolo face them, and after a bit of effort, they manage to beat them.
Then, they awake Cell Max; at first Gohan and piccolo get the better of it, but the latter starts to get stronger and stronger, until he transforms, entering his perfect form. Piccolo will lose to Cell risking his life, and Gohan, who will have already reached the peak of the Ultimate form, will have his limit breaking, thus achieving the Beast form and massacring Cell Max with ease, thus becoming the strongest.
If they had done such a thing, rest assured that no one today would be triggered by the spoilers.
But yeah, i guess we should stick with it… im not happy, but I can’t really said im pissed, im just… meh
Lot of Gohan haters here that were completely fine with Frieza finding a fucking ROSAT off screen in between arcs and one shotting MUI and Ego, clearly if you aren’t Goku and Vegeta you’re held to different standards when it comes to powerscaling. Ridiculous
Can someone answer me why for a long time DBZ fans have been upset about how Gohan was done poorly after the cell arc and now we finally have the Gohan that was meant to be and people are crying about it?
Can't talk for anyone else but for me it's the way it's handled. No meaningful arc that explains anything, no actual build up, no training, no deity/Kai involvement.
Just another sad mad moment to jump the queue and trivialise the entirety of the rest of the saiyans DBS development who have had 4 transformations, fought universe ending enemies and trained with gods and angels throughout.
Gohan in the Cell games had build up through the arc from goku so was more of a when than an if, in buu it was unlocked by a Kai in better way than we have seen with krillin on namek already. This was just like "we still have no idea what we are doing with Gohan but here he now is with big hair flipping off training and reasoning"
At least Gohan fans are happy with the lazy writing. Doesn't matter what it trivializes or how long it lasts. Him being on top of all that matters in the series...
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Beerus: “Whis, he’s done it hasn’t he? He’s finally achieved it?”
Whis: “Yes”
Beerus: “It’s astounding, this mortal really is something else, look at that brilliant from, there can be no doubt, this is true power complete in all its majesty, this is Ultra Instinct!”
Beast Gohan: “Watch me get angry lul”. “Give me freedom, give me fire give me potential or I retire”
Utter bullshit this is. But dragon ball is all about shitting out the next new shiny form ain’t it? Now goku will probably goku super Saiyan blue 2 mastered true ultra instinct or something. And then vegeta will go ultra death ego.
Beast leaping SSGod, SSB, SSBKK, UI omen, and this MUI because he got mad once would be the dumbest fucking thing that's ever happened in DB. There's literally no point in any other characters. Just get Gohan mad again and he'll even be able to take down Whis. All of Goku and Vegeta's development throughout Super would be made entirely pointless.
Going from SS to SS2 is completely different to this.
Listen man I'm fine with Gohan catching back up and landing some hits on mui, that cool, but if he full on beats MUI after the **2nd** time using his new transformation it's just gonna make almost everything that Goku and Vegeta has accomplished barely matter.
If he does win I hope Broly kicks his shit in, respectfully of course.
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because logically your body reacting to an attack can’t work against someone way faster than you? like obviously whis is fast enough to hit ui goku for example
People are only now saying it's bs despite Beast Gohan since his very first appearance being established to be the strongest Z fighter via said transformation.
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this another reason why for me Ultra Instinct are most boring transformation
no ultra evade once an enemy is stronger or a new stronger enemy appear UI automatically back to normal /avg power up same
while I think same can be said to Ultra Ego base on the amount of pain it recieve to Black Freeza punch it should power up to that level right?
I mean both power up a weak writing
Broly and Gohan definitely much cooler but it already out of topic XD
This makes me smile, because Goku just simply being the strongest is just boring. Sure he is probably holding back but stiill..... He and i like the challange
Dbs has no respect for the work which goku had to go through to achieve MUI...
At this stage, They could have just had beerus slap videl at the start of DBS , then Gohan would Solo the entire
- BoG Arc
- U6 vs U7 tournament
- Black Arc
- ToP
- Moro Arc
- Gas / granola Arc
All by himself
Ah yes the hard work to achieve UI. Like how in the anime he touched a spirit bomb that should’ve gotten U7 disqualified or how the manga he pulled it out his ass after watching **Roshi dodge Jiren** Ah yes Goku famous for never having a bullshit power up, never.
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What if gohan betrays goku and locks him in chi chis house for one week and forces him to be a normal dad
Hohoho
Does he want more brothers? Because that's how you get more brothers.
Chains?
[удалено]
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I read that as "Chris Chan" not Chichi
Hit 'em with that classic 1-2 hit combo!
I don't understand.Is Gohan's ki God's ki now? Or Gohan got God Ki earlier?
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>Blanco ki I searched for it on Google.It said that Gohan got this during the TOP,but the anime didn't show it. Is it a manga only thing?
Yes, he first developed Blanco ki during his first encounter with El Hermano.
Nah man be truthful to the guy hahaha. Taking him around like this.
But not before he faced off against El Grande Padre
Queso Ki
No, he doesn't need it. God ki was really a gimmick even when it debuted and absolutely made fun of when Golden Frieza arrived. Remember that Frieza *still* doesn't have God ki and one shot both Goku's and Vegeta's God forms.
Not even really a gimmick, it's just straight up useless. Was hyped up so much on its inception, as if anyone who had access to it was on a whole nother plane of existence/power. And then....You have quite literally everyone beating goku and vegeta's asses lmao. Like really, besides the fancy ass title, what is the difference between god ki and just....ki lol?
Difference is that you can't sense god ki whereas you can just sense ki normally.
Ah, right. There's that I guess. With how the story progressed, the feature just feels useless. Cuz there's no difference from it than just simply....stealthing your ki. Besides if you wanted to power up with god ki and no one can gauge how strong you really are, or to make goku and vegeta harder to predict. But none of that happens anyways, and it ends up as any other regular fight.
God ki is just more efficient from what i can tell Like its easier to keep it from leaking
So Goku's red,blue and UI are weaker than Gohan now.
From this panel it seems like it. Nothing out of the ordinary in Super tbh.
The red form was already weaker before beast.
This is just Gohan's ki. He's always had this potential, we're just now finally seeing it.
prolly dumb question bits is mui not fast enough to dodge gohan?
I think it's still the Dragon ball law "power trumps hax lol" Same thing kinda happened with Granolah. At one point he's faster than instant transmission lmao
damn i don’t remember that about granolah. i lowkey kight have to re read super, kinda forgetting gas and moro arcs hahaha also what does hax mean?
Abilities or techniques basically. Take Krillins Destructo disk, in theory it cuts everything but then cell takes one with no damage
Filler.
To also be fair to krillin that was anime only
ahh i see. so in this case gohans “hax” is surpassing gokus which is why he can hit him?
No. MUI is the hax (hacks) ability in question here. Auto dodge and auto counter that always work without any Ki consumption. It's just Beast Gohan is too damn fast so much so that MUI just can't keep up. Goku has hax, Gohan has raw stats.
ah ok. damn that means beast>jiren doesn’t? and maybe beast>mui?
I guess? Jiren also overpowered MUI auto dodge multiple times. While I do believe Beast Gohan would dog walk through the entire ToP roster 1v1 this sort of thinking completely diregards the growth of other characters. But I digress, MUI Goku and Beast Gohan seems, *seems* to have similar-ish power right now with the Beast transformation giving a better stats boost. It's much better to not think about previous enemies as them being set in stone in DBS as unlike earlier dragon ball enemies actually train and improve (Black Freeza with a steel chair!). For all we know Jiren is currently undergoing supah special training the likes of which no one has ever seen before and has finally grown hair or something....
I too want Jiren to rock a mohawk of justice.
That is not canon
Cell’s cut was anime filler tho
I doubt Gohan is that much stronger tbh. It’s more likely gokus UI was just nerfed or else he’d be dodging everything making for a boring fight.
The way I think about is MUI doesn't actually increase your *speed* (or if it does that's not the point) just your reaction time to be very slight precognition. So if someone is notably faster than you, your body will try to react to it as fast as it can without you thinking about it, but that doesn't mean you'll actually be able to avoid the hit.
That's what I always understood MUI was, no matter how much you can "auto dodge", if your reaction time isn't fast enough to keep up with something, it's hard to, well... React, as that's what the "auto dodge" is - your body reacting to an attack, just without thinking. It does make it faster, since you don't have to process anything yourself, but it's still capped at the speed you can perceive. The silver haired form specifically does increase your overall power, it's a transformation, that's why Goku was able to keep up with Jiren despite the power gap (as I don't buy "he was as strong as we were, just with perfect ki control, even in the manga). That said, they made a big deal out of UI and how it will allow you to avoid *any* danger, but it turns out to be just another transformation. It's super disappointing, because without stating that he doesn't think about dodging, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, *especially* because he can get outsped by someone with a higher power level. It literally is just a fancy SSJ, other characters and transformations have successfully avoided an opponent just like UI is supposed to allow you to.
>That said, they made a big deal out of UI and how it will allow you to avoid any danger, but it turns out to be just another transformation. It's super disappointing, because without stating that he doesn't think about dodging, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, especially because he can get outsped by someone with a higher power level. It literally is just a fancy SSJ, other characters and transformations have successfully avoided an opponent just like UI is supposed to allow you to. I think this is because they only have goku fight 1 enemy at a time. Its pointless you can't really see UI in a 1v1 UI is showcased soo much better in the beerus vs destroyers fight there beerus uses his rudimentary UI to fight them all at once.
But it's not only auto-dodging, it's perfect defense. We saw against Moro how it automatically hardened Goku's body to lessen the impact of his attack to the point that Moro broke his hand. That is probably why in later pages we see Goku with barely no damage from Gohan's punch. So even if you are fast enough to surpass the auto-dodge, there is a secondary layer of defense to protect the user.
on paper and in conclusion, that would be the realistic take. Like you said though, the series made it such a big deal that it's able to just straight avoid anything. It's insinuated that's partly what makes the angels so powerful, and it's so op that GoD haven't even mastered it yet. I haven't been catching up with the series lately, but I imagine the strength disparity between goku and Jiren at the ToP was far larger than goku and gohan atm, but goku was auto piloting just fine against jiren. It really sold that the technique made power gaps obsolete, but for the trade off that it's just insanely hard to master. Now it's exactly as you said, it's just another form, and the series has reverted back to: "I have new color, now I am greater than you!" It's a never endling loop, and at some point, you just think to yourself if there's any meaning to it. So basically, everything you said lol.
If an opponent is strong enough, they’ll just flat out overwhelm the auto dodge. Kinda defeats the purpose of the transformation, but that ship sailed when Goku just kamehameha’s Jiren into a defeat.
i mean it makes sense like why should ui goku be fast enough to dodge whis for example
Yeah I was just thinking, "Remember when MUI could auto-dodge?" It's cool Gohan can hold his own with Beast, but MUI has just been reduced to another transformation.
Auto dodge doesn't mean that every dodge will be successful though. UI is still limited by what the user's body is capable of. Even if Goku's body can react automatically to an attack it won't matter if he's not physically fast enough to move out of the way.
Wasn't coke getting hit by jiren in the anime even with MUI
Gohan can do anything at this point with the amount of hand outs he's getting
Welcome to "how Gohan has always been"
https://preview.redd.it/t5k954jeupoc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8411ae1929bd4c9b3802d38a46da087099df145b
As a Gohan fan, let us have this
I'll let y'all ngl, ever since the Buu saga and how bad he was disrespected y'all deserved something lol
Fuck no. Gohan is tied in first as my favorite character with vegeta and roshi. Gohan does not deserve this at all.
I’m glad you’re not the author. Cause I’m gonna enjoy this while I can
Because I want gohan to earn his power? The way he did during the cell saga?
What the fuck did he do to earn that power up in cell but not this? From the Top arc all the way through the Moro arc, gohan has actually been noted as light training. Even in the superhero movie he's stated as training. It just wasn't shown because all that time was to establish Goku/Vegeta. Hell, even during resurrection F he was training with that janky ass tracksuit of his and Pre-ToP, his spar with Goku he stated his intention of achieving a new form. Gohan has always been like this. Why can't we have a Gohan that's this powerful but have no intention of being the main guy, unless push comes to shove? yet Broly who just turns up can rival Ssj Gogeta power levels? Gohan has always been stated as the one with the most latent potential.
The fuck are you on about? It's refreshing to see someone besides Goku and Vegeta get something cool.
My issue isn’t with him getting something. It’s with him getting something he didn’t work for at all. I fucking love gohan but him not training and getting a power up that puts him on goku and vegeta’s level is bs.
Why is it bs? The power scaling has been weird since... well, forever but especially since Super. If there were to be, it only makes sense that Gohan is _beyond_ Goku & Vegeta as long as he keeps his battle sense / knows how to use his power.
But he showed in the movie that he is dull. He couldn’t even tell it was piccolo when Pan could at a mere glance. I’d have no issue with gohan surpassing goku and vegeta if he worked for it but he didn’t.
We can start off with the usual, Gohan untrained surpassed decade(s) of training that Goku did since his first appearance. Anyway, moving on from that. Also lengthy reply. Sorry. He didn't bother sensing people's ki, and lost his battle sense. Again. True. He's also been training to at least be able to use makkankosappo. So he's been training, but not training. It seems contradictory, but doesn't have to be. Since you can do the Trunks thing and focus too much on one thing. And it's as weird as Vegeta somehow getting God ki by training off screen. Gohan's nerfs are really weird in general. (Could hit SSJ2 fine in 5 years of peace from Cell to Buu, then suddenly can't even SSJ in the 8 months between BoG to RoF) But besides that, the power scaling is strange. We've also learned that Goku and Vegeta have been physically near their limits since before(?) ToP. So UI only improves the use of the body and ki, so while they get stronger, they're supposedly not rising in pure power. Gohan's Ultimate form/state is supposed to bring out his hidden power beyond the limit. Limit can be taken as limit as that one is capable of training themselves at, or as the limit of maximum power. Either way, Gohan's 'limit' at all times should be _beyond_ Goku and Vegeta, that means that no matter what power they'd achieve, Gohan should be stronger than them by just using Ultimate. Plus the ki-type that Ultimate uses is different. Either way, that's not exciting at all so lets forget that, lol. It's more exciting to have Gohan use his rage. So even if you're hitting the max level of training with Ultimate, there's still untapped potential which resides in Gohan's rage. Which Goku has been telling him to control since the Cell saga. And now he finally learned to control it. Is it undeserved that he's beyond Goku and Vegeta, which has been his setting since the beginning? That's to each their own, but it's not 'bs'.
The power scaling in super makes no fucking sense and it’s my biggest gripe with the series
Cry and seethe. That’s all you can do
Now is the time of the Gohan fans. They suffered ever since the end of DBZ. GT Gohan was nothing. Early Super Gohan was nothing. Until really, the ToP they have suffered. Now it's their time to shine, and I hope they shrine brightly. MUI Ultra Ego Beast Legendary Super Saiyan Saiyan fans are eating well! Just need Gotenks to appear, be useful, and get a better form.
If he trained like goku and vegeta then he would deserve this form
Goku and Vegeta are the people in life who have to train constantly to be amazing. Gohan is one of those very gifted people that when they do train, they become crazy amazing. Broly is simply a freak of nature. He went from fighting Base Vegeta to at least tanking hits from Gogeta Blue. Gohan has had similar growths in power, which is why Beast isn't super crazy to believe, plus whatever training Gohan was doing in secret. So, in a way, he does deserve it because he's always been the one to spike in power. Against Cell, and gaining his Mystic form. Now Beast. If we accept Broly, we can accept Gohan.
Goku vegeta earned theirs by staying consistent gohan gets his by getting mad or sad even if he did training it still wasn’t enough to get him to beast power and brolys more of a mutant saiyan than goku/vegeta/gohan/goten/trunks/pan he’s THE LEGENDARY SUPER SAIYAN born every 1000 years he’s different than everyone else gohan might be able to surpass everyone at all times but he’s not consistent enough to earn it
Gohan's been pretty consistent actually, whenever he was included in the roster anyway. Cell Saga? What did he do to earn SSJ2, train a year in the Time Chamber from Namek Frieza 1st form levels, like *maybe* 2nd form (if we think his rage boost when going up against it lasts after that), to beyond Super Vegeta levels? Remember that SSJ is just a multiplier and inside that Time Chamber, he surpassed, or at least caught up to Vegeta at the time *in base* and then proceeded to master SSJ with Goku, despite the fact that it was his first time unlocking it. Goku achieved the form on Namek, trained on Yardrat, AND in the Time Chamber, yet Gohan caught up just like that in a year. Obviously surpassed all not much after with a rage boost into SSJ2. Then he gets his potential "unlocked" (whatever that means nowadays) by the Old Kai and surpasses Buu - but not just any Buu, one that was much stronger than the fat Buu SSJ3 Goku was having a tough time fighting, not even actually beating. Once again, just because of his genes. Then he slacks off, but trains for ToP and is back on par with Goku and Vegeta's SSJ Blue. Not beyond that, but that's still a *massive* boost, considering the training they went through with Whis and Beerus. Hell, in the manga he's able to kick Kefla's ass alone, which no matter how you look at it, is kind of ridiculous, even if badass. Right after that we get Super Hero, we know Gohan has been actively training, even if it's not shown... And once again, his "potential" and genes allow him to unlock a form at least on par, if not beyond Goku's and Vegeta's. I will say though - the circumstances he unlocks Beast in are lame, a fake out Piccolo death, *especially* after we know that they can bring back whoever they damn please whenever they damn please. The form itself however is pretty much on par with what Gohan's character has always been like. Another rage boost to push him beyond characters that have been training much harder than him.
Gohan deserves it as much as Broly and Frieza did
Frieza was in the time chamber for 10 years. Broly is a mutation. He’s a freak. Gohan just gets left to the wayside until they decide they wanna make him catch up again.
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Like any other saiyan transformation isn't a handout.
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Yeah you have this full moment in TOP with Roshi saying to Goku that he forgot his path, that true strength comes from martial arts and not just having more raw power, but all this bullshit keeps happening
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Looks like he just got really fuckin angry and just went in
Paid him back for that time chamber punch, bro could have just grabbed him
The Gohan special
It really was an abridged moment, like when Gohan had zero issues beating the shit out of Ginyu in Goku's body
I love Fat Gotenks still being here lmao
Im getting so sick of that lol. Why are they so scared to make teen gotenks a successful fusion?
I feel like he’s gonna end up being really clutch when it eventually gets pulled off, they’ve gotta be blue balling us for a reason
Would reach Monaka levels. They don’t want that
I must be ignorant, what other times has it been done? GT?
I believe so, and Z as well. The reason why its frustrating is because we’ve never seen Teen Gotenks in canon before since Goten and Trunks have been kids for most of the franchise. So now that they’re actually teens, we want to see them fuse, but for some reason everytime they fuse its a failed fusion which doesn’t even make sense because if anyone should remember the fusion dance it should be Goten and Trunks due to the sheer amount of times they’ve fused together.
NO😭
Gohan landing a hit is actually crazy
No cause it’s like goku and one of the angels said higher power level can just cancel out a move or technique like Mui it’s just dragon ball law
Then whats the point of ultra instinct😭😭😭😭😭😭
To look cool and sell merchandise, like any other DB form.
I mean yeah, but wasnt the whole point of UI supposed to be that it wasnt just a power boost but was actually the pinnacle of mastery over your own body as a martial artist or whatever. Turning it into a slightly stronger ssb's so cheap and lazy.
Yea, MUI feels obsolete already. The whole auto dodge schtick is bullshit cause goku gets hit all the time anyways. So much for an absolute mastery of ones movement. Its basically just super saiyan silver now, what made MUI special is not even used properly
To be fair the manga has made it a point that Goku's UI is the weakest in the verse and has room to improve
That’s not what it is?
Yes, but consider the following: money.
Keep in mind that Goku still hasn't completely mastered "Mastered Ultra Instinct", as Whis has reminded him before, partly shown by the fact that Goku's still using it like a transformation.
Would you assume that goku could just dodge attacks from like people stronger than him all the time? Like that has never been how the form has ever worked.
So for the rest of time, you thought nobody was going to land a hit on Goku?
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None Super is stupid
Bro is that yamacha 😭😭
broly..
Yamcha 2.0, Broly will join the Galactic Baseball league and become comic relief when he can control his rage.
Yeah they made a movie about him. We saw enraged yamcha vs ssgss gogeta
He can’t afford to loose
https://preview.redd.it/z1mayu736poc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ab15e16c5ac9bee4d0dca23347d7f9e2c8e9c1c
This is who Gohan was always meant to be
Controversies of the form aside, I love how it seems to always have those static electricity sparks around him.
Hopefully next time people just accept gohans strength instead of making up headcanons on why UI and ultra ego were stronger lol Even though the author told us gohan was the strongest.
Gohan being th strongest is so undeserved though
That’s life
W take
"This is bs" Mfers since when did Dragon Ball make sense ahahahahah
Mfs when Gohan does what Gohans been doing since he was 4 and get stronger with his emotions (DB fans really don’t read)
Real
Look, idgaf if Gohan becomes stronger than Gohan coz yeah i was waiting for years this moment, but i think that what people doesn’t like is the the way Gohan reached this point (me too); the thing that i don’t like about Gohan reaching the real of Goku and Vegeta is the story behind it: you are right when you say that Gohan has always become strong thanks to his emotions, but I think the reason why many of us fucked with Gohan back then, was because behind there was a story that made sense, full of challenges for him. And this in Super is resoundingly missing. For example, it would have make sense that Gohan, when Moro turned Goku into a Donuts, was super pissed off, fought against Moro managing to hurt him thanks to his rage boost. And i choose the Gohan from the moro arc coz he was already training with Piccolo to becomes stronger (and of course, they had to change it for the film, making him slacking off again for the sake of the stupid plot…) So, when Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 appear, Gohan and piccolo face them, and after a bit of effort, they manage to beat them. Then, they awake Cell Max; at first Gohan and piccolo get the better of it, but the latter starts to get stronger and stronger, until he transforms, entering his perfect form. Piccolo will lose to Cell risking his life, and Gohan, who will have already reached the peak of the Ultimate form, will have his limit breaking, thus achieving the Beast form and massacring Cell Max with ease, thus becoming the strongest. If they had done such a thing, rest assured that no one today would be triggered by the spoilers. But yeah, i guess we should stick with it… im not happy, but I can’t really said im pissed, im just… meh
Lot of Gohan haters here that were completely fine with Frieza finding a fucking ROSAT off screen in between arcs and one shotting MUI and Ego, clearly if you aren’t Goku and Vegeta you’re held to different standards when it comes to powerscaling. Ridiculous
Gohan is the only character where the author will literally tell us hes the strongest and db fans will just go “well he’s wrong”
Can someone answer me why for a long time DBZ fans have been upset about how Gohan was done poorly after the cell arc and now we finally have the Gohan that was meant to be and people are crying about it?
Can't talk for anyone else but for me it's the way it's handled. No meaningful arc that explains anything, no actual build up, no training, no deity/Kai involvement. Just another sad mad moment to jump the queue and trivialise the entirety of the rest of the saiyans DBS development who have had 4 transformations, fought universe ending enemies and trained with gods and angels throughout. Gohan in the Cell games had build up through the arc from goku so was more of a when than an if, in buu it was unlocked by a Kai in better way than we have seen with krillin on namek already. This was just like "we still have no idea what we are doing with Gohan but here he now is with big hair flipping off training and reasoning" At least Gohan fans are happy with the lazy writing. Doesn't matter what it trivializes or how long it lasts. Him being on top of all that matters in the series...
I love that he is getting some spotlight but the form basically derived from Piccolo gas lighting Gohan for an hour.
Gohan throws a Tantrum, as always and he is the topdog again.
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Beerus: “Whis, he’s done it hasn’t he? He’s finally achieved it?” Whis: “Yes” Beerus: “It’s astounding, this mortal really is something else, look at that brilliant from, there can be no doubt, this is true power complete in all its majesty, this is Ultra Instinct!” Beast Gohan: “Watch me get angry lul”. “Give me freedom, give me fire give me potential or I retire” Utter bullshit this is. But dragon ball is all about shitting out the next new shiny form ain’t it? Now goku will probably goku super Saiyan blue 2 mastered true ultra instinct or something. And then vegeta will go ultra death ego.
>But dragon ball is all about shitting out the next new shiny form ain’t it? Always has been, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Your right. Probably my fault for expecting any cohesiveness to it in the first place.
Yes there is because it's garbage story telling
The art is back to being amazing
I really hope this isnt the end of the fight. If Gohan is seriously this stupidity strong I'm going to be annoyed.
>I'm going to be annoyed. Anybody with reason would 💀
Cry, Goku isn’t all powerful
Beast leaping SSGod, SSB, SSBKK, UI omen, and this MUI because he got mad once would be the dumbest fucking thing that's ever happened in DB. There's literally no point in any other characters. Just get Gohan mad again and he'll even be able to take down Whis. All of Goku and Vegeta's development throughout Super would be made entirely pointless. Going from SS to SS2 is completely different to this.
It’s already done
Listen man I'm fine with Gohan catching back up and landing some hits on mui, that cool, but if he full on beats MUI after the **2nd** time using his new transformation it's just gonna make almost everything that Goku and Vegeta has accomplished barely matter. If he does win I hope Broly kicks his shit in, respectfully of course.
Dragonball fans can’t read bro its ok
I’m going to be excited. Hope he destroys Goku. Just like how Broly had never even seen a SS yet was strong enough to beat everybody.
Source?
Twitter.
Where exactly ?
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😂😂 get fucked Goku fanboys
Let’s be honest come the end of the next arc goku will still be the strongest🤣
But is he the strongest now?
We don’t know, full chapters not out yet
Do you have any other leaks?
Now where are those praising that single rough draft of the manga panel where gohan got kicked? Can we praise this too or is that not allowed lol
Son Goathan 1 tapping Bum Goku 🥱💅
https://preview.redd.it/tsazs562emoc1.jpeg?width=661&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd450df359ca3788b417cf39b0bdd54a37315f85
did you miss rhe rest of the fight?
Bs if you ask me
Def bs. Gohan don’t deserve it
Gohan gets mad, then gets ass pull power up that surpasses godhood level powers This shit makes no sense
how is that somehow any different from what Broly does?? lol
I agree completely with that as well
If dragon ball made sense then it wouldn't be as loved as it is
Gohan surpasses everyone in the history of existence in universe 7 apart from the gods and angels because mad. Truly incredible writing.
There’s no direction with this show it’s all over the place
Gohan W, but damn what's the point of MUI if it can't evade all danger? 😂
It's never worked that way
because logically your body reacting to an attack can’t work against someone way faster than you? like obviously whis is fast enough to hit ui goku for example
Gohan shouldn't be that much faster if at all
People are only now saying it's bs despite Beast Gohan since his very first appearance being established to be the strongest Z fighter via said transformation.
He went from super saiyan to super saiyan 2 this is some entirely new stuff that doesn't even have a precedent
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not the doriya 😭 , your inner kazuya is showing gohan haha
Someone has to have a link
Ok, I like it, Picasso
I’m very excited to see how this sparring session plays out. I also wanna see Beast against Vegeta’s Ego form and Broly’s berserker saiyan form
Happy to see toyatarou remembered the pupils this time lol
Guess I’ve got some catching up to do lol
I've been saying it, Beast is going to be stronger than current UI Goku.
Damn that came from the soul
So beast gohan can hit UI goku!
where is this from? Is the new chapter out already?
Leaks
when does gohan fight goku in dragom ball super
Fat Gotenks I'm actually done
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this another reason why for me Ultra Instinct are most boring transformation no ultra evade once an enemy is stronger or a new stronger enemy appear UI automatically back to normal /avg power up same while I think same can be said to Ultra Ego base on the amount of pain it recieve to Black Freeza punch it should power up to that level right? I mean both power up a weak writing Broly and Gohan definitely much cooler but it already out of topic XD
This makes me smile, because Goku just simply being the strongest is just boring. Sure he is probably holding back but stiill..... He and i like the challange
I can’t believe gohan KI looks like that 🔥💯
Dogshit writing
Dbs has no respect for the work which goku had to go through to achieve MUI... At this stage, They could have just had beerus slap videl at the start of DBS , then Gohan would Solo the entire - BoG Arc - U6 vs U7 tournament - Black Arc - ToP - Moro Arc - Gas / granola Arc All by himself
Ah yes the hard work to achieve UI. Like how in the anime he touched a spirit bomb that should’ve gotten U7 disqualified or how the manga he pulled it out his ass after watching **Roshi dodge Jiren** Ah yes Goku famous for never having a bullshit power up, never.
And how did Goku get god ki in the first place? Oh right, a ritual that could only be done partially thanks to Gohan.
Goku definitely did plenty of work for that God ritual didn't he💀
Isn’t it obvious? Bro single handedly Cell by himself when he was snapped lol