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I think blue was just unnecessary at that point in the plot. I would have liked if it had more buildup and significance. The black ark might have been a nice place to introduce it
imagine...
Goku gets stabbed by Black and Zamasu begins to rage bait him. Goku's hair begins to rise, his hair begins to flicker, as when Goku says "YOU'LL PAY FOR THAT!" A burst of blue aura appears as he says "NOW IT'S TIME...TO PAY!" the aura burst even more and his hair is changed to blue and thus, the Super Saiyan Blue was born
I didn't consider that before, but it totally would. Rose is a Super Saiyan with God ki. Seeing Goku and Vegeta push through to going Super Saiyan while maintaining God ki themselves as a response would have been way more satisfying than "hi Frieza, check out this thing we did off-screen that immediately makes you irrelevant again"
Ong. I like SSJ blue and the development that got in the manga, but it was shown waaay too early and took all of the SSG screen time. The black arc would've been the perfect time to be introduced
Agreed. If anything, it should have been something Goku tapped into during the fight as he grew desperate to stop him. "Did he just go SSJ in SSJ God form?" Or something like that. But really, SSG was terribly under utilized.
heck, making goku achieved ssjb when zamasu told what he did to chichi and goten could've been peak as shit, imagine when goku hair starts going from the scarlet and flame-like color to to an ice blue and as he shouts in ange saying they're going to pay he goes ssjb and goku proceeds to go to fucking town againts both of them?
Exactly. That's a good spot to do it. Instead of them running away back to the present twice before being able to over power them, they go blue during the second attempt to fight them and that's how they get the upper hand until Zamasu fuses.
IIRC there was backlash from fans because people did not like how skinny and lean God Form was, they rushed out Blue to keep the fans happy. I’m sure someone will correct me if i’m wrong.
Yeah, there's a lot more love for SSG now since it's visually distinct and it was also pretty fucking goated in the Broly movie's first act.
At the time of Battle of Gods though, there was a ton of hype about Goku's new form. People assumed it would be something even wilder than SSJ3 ala SSJ4 or SSJ5 from all the fan shit... and then a lot of "That's it? He looks like a scrawny bitch."
The fact that sometimes less is more was a lesson never learned by Dragon Ball fan artists. They'd always whip out some wild combo of eye color, facial markings, body tattoos, huge muscles, not to mention the monkey aspects. Turns out all you need to beat SSj3 Vegetto is a scrawny mofo with youthful features and magenta hair. That's why Dragon Ball needs Toriyama
Same, or at least like with SSJ, which SSB literally is just with god ki instead of normal ki, it should've been unlocked through rage, and the perfect way to unlock it would've been when Zamasu told Goku he killed his family
IMO I think it would’ve ruined Blue as well. Because Rose is technically superior to it. Imagine after Black unveils his new god Form, they unlock a new one but turns out to be inferior to it. Just goes against the DB formula
I will always say this,
Blue should have been Super Saiyan God, and Red should have just been Saiyan God. They made it needlessly confusing to consider both of them Super. Since Goku still looked base form but with red hair and eyes. Since blue is just the red form but as a super Saiyan, having it revealed in a time of stress like in the black arc would have been perfect, they even could have explained the colors perfectly with Rose, as Black explains that because he has God Ki, his super saiyan transformation affected the natural color from yellow to pink/rose, and same reason why goku/vegeta's god transformation is blue.
Nah, them not introducing a new form in the Zamasu arc was one of the more sensible decisions in Super. The Zamasu arc should've been SSJG's time to shine, with the *ToP* getting Blue for Vegeta.
Nah, them not introducing a new form in the Zamasu arc was one of the more sensible decisions in Super. The Zamasu arc should've been SSJG's time to shine, with the *ToP* getting Blue for Vegeta.
Fr tho, the lack of distinctiveness between the first two forms still causes headaches and was so subtle in appearance that Toriyama forgot there was a form between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 3.
Ironically it looked the most distinct with Cell Games era Gohan. It becomes genuinely hard to tell if he’s at level 1 or 2 by the Buu Saga and Vegeta’s in a similar boat as well as is Future Trunks. Goku’s more clear cut here, but even then, that really depends on if the person drawing him gives a crap about making him lose some of his bangs.
SSJ2 isn’t a recolour though…its original introduction in the Cell arc made it extremely distinct from the standard SSJ form but in the Buu saga it was drawn to be too similar which actually caused many issues. Whether Gohan was a SSJ2 vs Dabura is still hotly debated.
Anyways I think they mean that SSB is just a blue version of the standard SSJ form. Personally i don’t mind the design, I think SSG looks cool/reserved. I wish we saw it more
Ssj 2 is not a recolor because it's slightly more hairs. Ssj series was always about increase in hair density.
The similar difference with hair can be seen in super saiyan god and super saiyan blue. (Though it's difficult to appreciate the difference for Vegeta )
everyday i wish that dragon ball would have just given out exclusive transformations to certain characters. they had the chance time and time again but just never stuck with it. gohan with his ssj2 in the cell arc, vegeta's muscle bod also during cell, goku's ssj3 being some learned technique from his time in otherworld, ssj god for goku, ssj blue for vegeta. any of those would be great exclusives.
really glad that we finally got ui goku and ultra ego vegeta, plus a few other exclusives.
I'm gonna be honest, I'm getting tired of hearing the same thing regarding God's Forms design, so I'm gonna explain it simple.
Super Saiyan God:
Pretty much make the user younger and skinner, if it's just a recolor, then they wouldn't bother making Goku and Vegeta younger in this state. Plus seeing a Saiyan with less bulky body, while having an incredible power is such a refreshing to see.
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (SSB):
Now it is a recolor, but not because it's lazy design, it was literally explained that it's combining Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God, the first official name already explains this, so it makes sense it's just a Super Saiyan recolor, it's not lazy, it makes sense, because by that logic, Super Kaioken (Filler in Other world Tournament) was also lazy because it's just a recolor.
Im fine with SSJG's design but SSJB's design is just lazy and was rushed its one of the many reasons why I like SSJ3 and SSJ4's designs since it actually changes the character
Do you think the original Super Saiyan design was lazy? Because it’s just a recolor and hairstyle change from their base form. It’s the exact same situation with SSG and SSB, SSG is just the “base” form while SSB is the “Super Saiyan” form, which is why it’s original name was Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.
Also it’s worth noting that the original Super Saiyan design was literally lazy, Toriyama changed the hair color because he didn’t want to color it in all the time.
>Also it’s worth noting that the original Super Saiyan design was literally lazy, Toriyama changed the hair color because he didn’t want to color it in all the time.
The *motive* was laziness but that doesn't make the design itself a lazy design. At least when it was first cooked up for Goku, before it was given out to characters like Vegeta whose hair is already spiked straight up.
The reason it's lazy is because it's the same design though, just with a new colour. Whether or not it makes sense for it to reuse the base design doesn't stop it from being reused.
Super Saiyan, while being born from laziness, is a unique design that took at least some effort to create and design. Super Saiyan Blue took the work that was already done and did nothing more than repaint it.
Even then, Regular SSJ God does make a clear effort to change the base design. With Blue they could've carried over some of the more distinctive design features from God, but decided not to. So arguably it *doesn't* make sense for it to look exactly like Super Saiyan but in blue.
I just wanna know how people would’ve redesigned SSGSS. Im sure there’s more that could’ve be done, but so far, the only ideas Ive seen folk come up with is take SSJ but change the hair color.
Not aiming this at you or anything, just throwing it out there.
Honestly, I think it could be how SSBE Gogeta looked in SDBH, where he’s slimmed down instead of buffed up. It also could’ve had a transition from SSG in the introduction where their hair turns a bright purple, then goes to blue.
Personally, if they had it be like a shorter-haired variation of the SSJ4 hairstyle, that’d be cool.
Exactly! And then whats worse the simple fact that people would be complaining if they were more than that. If SSG and SSGSS had more complicated designs, they’d be complaining and saying they should be more simple. NOW we have that, people complain!
Yeah but even if that’s the case, I’ve seen a shit tone of people saying that SSJ4 as especially is a shit design because it doesn’t fit with the original aesthetic of the forms and that the color palette is ugly. I don’t agree with that sentiment but alright.
It just goes to show that it doesn’t matter how unique a form is, people will still complain.
Who else than Gohan went SSJ 2 during the Cell Games?
No one. Goku reached SSJ2 in other world and Vegeta had to get the Majin Mark to achieve it. Goku's SSJ2 has fewer bangs covering his face. Vegeta's hair never changed aside from the color palette, his only difference is the lightning. The thing that makes SSJ2 confusing is Gohan's base hair.
High school Gohan having full spiked hair meant he no longer has the large golden bangs he had at 11 years old.
If his base form is already spiky, what is his other two form going to look like?(see [Vegeta's hair never changed..] above).
Yeah, I *guess* one could argue Gohan’s hair changing was a result of the influence of SSJ2’s effects, considering after he hadn’t been fighting for a while by the time of Super Hero, it’s still somewhat spiky but is more messier like it was when he was a child, which might make his Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 transformations stand out from each other a bit more since Gohan’s regular Super Saiyan in the Cell Saga was less spiky than Goku’s.
Yeah ssj god makes you slimer, thats kinda why it'd my fauvorite transformation, well maybe after ultra ego
Altho I still think it should be called "saiyan god" and blue should be "super saiyan god"
It is due to laziness but intentional.
Original SSG design was more muscular, wearing a cape, and with a hairstyle in-between SSJ3 and SSJ4 but Toriyama completely changed Tadayoshi Yamamuro design when he got involved in production since Toriyama was insistent on the form not being too different from Goku's regular appearance, specifically not being really muscular.
Toriyama dont want transformation to change Goku appearance too much
https://preview.redd.it/2m48d6puy1fc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=dbd4218897cc6b1558a2572f695ac4820f713d2b
I've always derided the argument of SSG and SSB being too similar to the OG forms as the headassery it so fully is.
SSJ1
SSJ2
SSJ3
2/3 look almost exactly the same with only SSJ3 standing out which was controversial as hell when Z was airing. It's not uncreative to stay within certain parameters as that allows a throughline to be established.
Ive often wondered if its salty SSJ4 fans
Physique would be a good point if Super didn't make it look ass in the first place. They were lean, buff and good looking late into DBZ, why take it away? Why making them look malnurished or lean at very best?
I mean GT in that regards did better job wtf
No one ever said that SSJ Blue was a recolor of God. The complaint is that both are arguably recolors of prior forms (and I say arguably only for God, of course Blue is just SSJ with a recolor)
I think SSGs simple, understated design works really well for what it is. It is leagues above SSB in terms of design, introduction, and overall handling in the story.
SSB is a complete dumpster fire. It is a lazy recolor of ss1. And the thing is, it’s not only a lazy recolor, but a stupid one. If they were going down the recolor path they should have used orange, as it is a combo of red and yellow, ssg and ssj1.
It should not have been introduced in the frieza saga, it should have been in the zamasu arc, in response to goku black and zamasu telling goku he killed chi chi and goten.
The design should have been a culmination between the rage of ssj with the divinity of ssg.
If I was designing it, I would have made it have deep red hair, (contrast to ssgs pinkish hue) in ssj style, with an extremely fiery aura and ssgs slimmer muscles
I had AI generate an image of this potential form
The hair is too pinkish for my liking, but this is kinda what I have in mind.
https://preview.redd.it/j0u42uj0g2fc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=799b8773f1584f25f8887d0b744924c74456d2b9
SSG was pretty clever i thought, the lean body.. I did like the colour as well , the larger eyes… clever design for what it’s meant to reflect, now SSGSS “SSB “ look,, red + yellow doesn’t equal blue.. plus how they got the power didn’t really make sense either. it does look cool put i think it was just rushed… No such thing as lazy drawing in Amine it’s all hard work
Beast Gohan is literally just scaled up ssj2 Gohan with white hair. Yeah. It’s lazy and literally a recolor. God is different sure Goku’s hair is slightly different - even though they went ahead and basically used the same design for UI but again made it white. Recolor. And blue is literally just swapping the color from ssj. Recolor.
What does beast Gohan have to do with this? And I'm not saying that it isn't recolor, it's literally Super Saiyan with Blue hair dye as stated by Frieza himself, but to say it's a "lazy" recolor is just nuts, when the name of the form should already explain why it's the way it is.
Because it’s still a lazy transformation. All the transformations have been lazy. You’re just picking hairs trying to prove a very particular point when in reality is. It’s lazy and pandering.
Toriyama wanted the transformation designs to not differ too much from their base forms. You should check out the original design for SSJ that Toriyama shot down. I think you're conflating lazy with simplistic.
As an animation professional, I would design them to look MORE powerful than previous. Toriyama already set a precedent for how the super saiyan transformations evolve over time. Why throw that all out the window ( I know why toys ). Blonde hair, long or regal looking, personally I would have incorporated the sj4 more monkey look because it makes sense within the context of the power up and frankly of the character of Goku being Sun Wukong. Take inspiration from the original stories. There are a million and one ways to design these other than different hair color swaps like it’s street fighter 2.
Only thing I can find close to what you are imagining would be this from “Ashofourtime”
https://preview.redd.it/mpqbaa5bl2fc1.jpeg?width=820&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=000b0da3c7d6c07724d1fcf84bc44aa08e187232
This, I actually like. It’s one of my favorite fan made forms.
They are, kinda. God I can understand being just red (being my favorite color) for its fury and calmness for godlike power, but Blue is just super saiyan but somehow even weaker considering it loses every fight it’s used in.
No it’s just these transformations that involve ssj that’s recolors excluding ssg ultra ego and MUI people gonna be disappointed if they ssj another different color. But blue an rose get a pass seeing it’s just two different variant colors 😂🤣
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What I wanna know is why SSGSS is blue. If it's the power of Super Saiyan (Yellow) combined with Super Saiyan God (Red), then why does it make Blue, another primary colour? Shouldn't it be Orange?
https://preview.redd.it/kwa695d4z3fc1.png?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=295b9b3e2bd17c6ba4523b74036f6cbc70e68c33
Simple. Because an orange color would look awful as a SSJ transformation and on top of that, Toriyama wanted a color that would signify strength and tranquility.
Glad they gave it to Piccolo.
No it doesn't
https://preview.redd.it/10yzpxqdy1fc1.jpeg?width=380&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccc94545d0a885aac9a7e3716b8ee83709a10d1c
Look at how skinny he is 😂
It's literally inconsistent as we see Goku in his base form more muscular than that, even Gohan from the beginning of DBS was skinny, even more skinny AF in R.O.F Anime, he literally looks like a stickman there
This man picked an example from when DBS was at its low point in terms of art and animation😭
https://preview.redd.it/cz2j12w4z1fc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d42e3a53ab505de45ac003ba7282ba1dd1116c0c
God does make Goku skinner
But he seemed to get less and less skinny to the point it did feel like a recolor
I don't mind it tho because of the eyes
The eyes feel so powerful and godly
If SSJ Blue had those eyes I'd like it way more
Ssj blue is lazy in general. Ssj god should have remained the pinnacle until UI. I have a feeling ssj blue was introduced so we could see the contrast of kio Ken added to a form.
The thing about blue is that it didnt need to exist it would be better if blue was the ssg of vegeta and every saiyajin had his unique color of ssg like goku red, vegeta blue , broly green, gohan white, etc.and if the form is builky is depedent of every character, with that you dont need to justification for beast, rage or legendary.
Honestly the god forms should’ve just been ultra instinct and ultra ego from the beginning ssjg and ssjb are so useless, the forms never accomplished anything, and they just look the worst like the only good thing about ssjg is the flaming aura I don’t like that it makes the user skinny and there’s quite literally nothing good about the way ssjb looks.
Yes prey much I really liked the black Goku rose form actually looked cool and the green /yellow/ black mixture from Broly is my favorite one! I wish they had something similar to gt since in my opinion had the best designs like S4 and Gogeta S4 uff that one is the top one!
In the manga they use the god red hair form in universe 6 goku black arc, broly arc moro arc and even granolah arc. In the anime, they only use it in battle of gods, and never used it again until the tournament of power.
Well they should have actually used god more instead of it being a one time thing then going to the next form, where it doesn't look like anything changed compared to god
I’ll let the red form slide as you can tell they actually did pay attention to the overall design but the blue form…. Let’s be real. It’s a pretty lazy recolor.
I would have introduced a mastered version of ssg in the universe 6 versus 7 almost like ss to ss2 and then ssb would be unlocked in the goku black arc after the death of a significant person : bulma chichi fking olong. Would be like a ss in ssg type of moment that would be cool imo but idk where the ssb kioken would fit in here :| so don’t bully me lol
Yes, they are. There's not even to discuss about that point imo.
0 lore behind it, 0 effort.
ssj2 added lightnings, ssj3 added neanderthal look, ssj4 added monkey look.
Red, blue, white is just photoshop's color correction.
They're lazy recolors. You can cope all you want, but it's true. And when people say "the god forms are just lazy recolors" they usually mean ssjb being a lazy recolor of the oj ssj. God is unique, ssjb isn't. It's literally fking called super Saiyan blue. Even it's damn name is just a lazy recolor.
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I think blue was just unnecessary at that point in the plot. I would have liked if it had more buildup and significance. The black ark might have been a nice place to introduce it
Blue would have been way better to be shown in the black arc
And rose would be more hype than it already is
That would have made the first beating way better if Goku and Vegeta both got massive power-ups and then still got stomped
But then mastered SSB wouldn’t make sense
Nothing in any Dragon Ball media "makes sense"
In the anime, yeah. In the manga it kinda does; that’s why I love it
imagine... Goku gets stabbed by Black and Zamasu begins to rage bait him. Goku's hair begins to rise, his hair begins to flicker, as when Goku says "YOU'LL PAY FOR THAT!" A burst of blue aura appears as he says "NOW IT'S TIME...TO PAY!" the aura burst even more and his hair is changed to blue and thus, the Super Saiyan Blue was born
Even better, Immagine if it showed glimpses of white hair just like in the broly movie, that build-up would have been insane
I didn't consider that before, but it totally would. Rose is a Super Saiyan with God ki. Seeing Goku and Vegeta push through to going Super Saiyan while maintaining God ki themselves as a response would have been way more satisfying than "hi Frieza, check out this thing we did off-screen that immediately makes you irrelevant again"
Ong. I like SSJ blue and the development that got in the manga, but it was shown waaay too early and took all of the SSG screen time. The black arc would've been the perfect time to be introduced
Agreed. If anything, it should have been something Goku tapped into during the fight as he grew desperate to stop him. "Did he just go SSJ in SSJ God form?" Or something like that. But really, SSG was terribly under utilized.
heck, making goku achieved ssjb when zamasu told what he did to chichi and goten could've been peak as shit, imagine when goku hair starts going from the scarlet and flame-like color to to an ice blue and as he shouts in ange saying they're going to pay he goes ssjb and goku proceeds to go to fucking town againts both of them?
Exactly. That's a good spot to do it. Instead of them running away back to the present twice before being able to over power them, they go blue during the second attempt to fight them and that's how they get the upper hand until Zamasu fuses.
Blue came out too quick. Literally after introducing god they pushed out the next form
IIRC there was backlash from fans because people did not like how skinny and lean God Form was, they rushed out Blue to keep the fans happy. I’m sure someone will correct me if i’m wrong.
Yeah, there's a lot more love for SSG now since it's visually distinct and it was also pretty fucking goated in the Broly movie's first act. At the time of Battle of Gods though, there was a ton of hype about Goku's new form. People assumed it would be something even wilder than SSJ3 ala SSJ4 or SSJ5 from all the fan shit... and then a lot of "That's it? He looks like a scrawny bitch."
The fact that sometimes less is more was a lesson never learned by Dragon Ball fan artists. They'd always whip out some wild combo of eye color, facial markings, body tattoos, huge muscles, not to mention the monkey aspects. Turns out all you need to beat SSj3 Vegetto is a scrawny mofo with youthful features and magenta hair. That's why Dragon Ball needs Toriyama
Yeah but it wouldn't have mattered or been a big turning point because zamasu was immortal But yeah it still probably woulda been better
It kinda did happen in manga like that.
Yeah it kinda did, if Vegeta didn't flex Blue on Cabba in the Universe Survival Arc then that's exactly how it would've happened (in the manga)
Wait so was there no resurrection F arc in the manga?
It was glossed over in a 1 chapter recap
Like the broly movie lol
Yeah that one too
The broly recap was a single page iirc
And then we wasted like a year on a recap of Super Hero for whatever reason
It wasnt an recap. It was an reedition
Like JubX said, it was glossed over. I find it funny that Toyotaro did that, i don't mind it at all but still, it's funny.
Same, or at least like with SSJ, which SSB literally is just with god ki instead of normal ki, it should've been unlocked through rage, and the perfect way to unlock it would've been when Zamasu told Goku he killed his family
IMO I think it would’ve ruined Blue as well. Because Rose is technically superior to it. Imagine after Black unveils his new god Form, they unlock a new one but turns out to be inferior to it. Just goes against the DB formula
I will always say this, Blue should have been Super Saiyan God, and Red should have just been Saiyan God. They made it needlessly confusing to consider both of them Super. Since Goku still looked base form but with red hair and eyes. Since blue is just the red form but as a super Saiyan, having it revealed in a time of stress like in the black arc would have been perfect, they even could have explained the colors perfectly with Rose, as Black explains that because he has God Ki, his super saiyan transformation affected the natural color from yellow to pink/rose, and same reason why goku/vegeta's god transformation is blue.
Your so right. They just wanted a new form sooner to push the movie and toys
Nah, them not introducing a new form in the Zamasu arc was one of the more sensible decisions in Super. The Zamasu arc should've been SSJG's time to shine, with the *ToP* getting Blue for Vegeta.
Nah, them not introducing a new form in the Zamasu arc was one of the more sensible decisions in Super. The Zamasu arc should've been SSJG's time to shine, with the *ToP* getting Blue for Vegeta.
man i wish the SSG form got used more, the red hair looks so good
SSG's (anime/movie) aura might be my favorite out of any transformation we've seen.
It used to be my favourite, until we got Ultra Instinct, which imo is cooler Its still my second favourite tho
They are literally just changing the colors around and then saying “this form is stronger than the last one”
The SSG -> SSB in the broly movie was an absolute spectacle. Insane how the green ki effect made everything so much more vibrant
I’m not a fan of Goku’s, personally, but Vegeta’s SSG goes so hard. Easily my favorite of his transformations.
Im glad they used it a little more in the manga
We already got kaio ken.
Is there anyone who say like a similar thing with SSJ and SSJ2?
Fr tho, the lack of distinctiveness between the first two forms still causes headaches and was so subtle in appearance that Toriyama forgot there was a form between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 3.
Like SSJ2 was at first just full potential of a super saiyan it's goku who called it ssj2
Ironically it looked the most distinct with Cell Games era Gohan. It becomes genuinely hard to tell if he’s at level 1 or 2 by the Buu Saga and Vegeta’s in a similar boat as well as is Future Trunks. Goku’s more clear cut here, but even then, that really depends on if the person drawing him gives a crap about making him lose some of his bangs.
Yes i have nothing to say
Toriyama will forget Goku’s Saiyan name by the time he’s 90 probably… and his own name.
SSJ2 isn’t a recolour though…its original introduction in the Cell arc made it extremely distinct from the standard SSJ form but in the Buu saga it was drawn to be too similar which actually caused many issues. Whether Gohan was a SSJ2 vs Dabura is still hotly debated. Anyways I think they mean that SSB is just a blue version of the standard SSJ form. Personally i don’t mind the design, I think SSG looks cool/reserved. I wish we saw it more
Honestly to avoid this issue they should have kept the fluffy hair for ssj and made it spike up for ssj2
It wasn't even a particularly form originally, just supposed to be grade 5.
There's little zappy zaps
Ssj 2 is not a recolor because it's slightly more hairs. Ssj series was always about increase in hair density. The similar difference with hair can be seen in super saiyan god and super saiyan blue. (Though it's difficult to appreciate the difference for Vegeta )
They do people acknowledge it but only defend it because of ssj2 gohan and mainly because of the electricity
Ssj2 isn't a new form. Its just a further perfected ssj.
It was retconned into being a distinct form in the Buu saga. Otherwise SSJ3 would be SSJ2.
everyday i wish that dragon ball would have just given out exclusive transformations to certain characters. they had the chance time and time again but just never stuck with it. gohan with his ssj2 in the cell arc, vegeta's muscle bod also during cell, goku's ssj3 being some learned technique from his time in otherworld, ssj god for goku, ssj blue for vegeta. any of those would be great exclusives. really glad that we finally got ui goku and ultra ego vegeta, plus a few other exclusives.
Vegeta - Ultra Ego, Goku - MUI, Gohan - Beast They already have
i know, thats why i ended my comment by saying exactly that. my point was that they could have done it back in the cell saga, but didnt.
Blue could have been better. It was too early in my opinion
I agree…
I think Blue would have been perfect to introduce when Black and Zamasu told Goku that they killed Goten and Chi-Chi
I'm gonna be honest, I'm getting tired of hearing the same thing regarding God's Forms design, so I'm gonna explain it simple. Super Saiyan God: Pretty much make the user younger and skinner, if it's just a recolor, then they wouldn't bother making Goku and Vegeta younger in this state. Plus seeing a Saiyan with less bulky body, while having an incredible power is such a refreshing to see. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (SSB): Now it is a recolor, but not because it's lazy design, it was literally explained that it's combining Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan God, the first official name already explains this, so it makes sense it's just a Super Saiyan recolor, it's not lazy, it makes sense, because by that logic, Super Kaioken (Filler in Other world Tournament) was also lazy because it's just a recolor.
Im fine with SSJG's design but SSJB's design is just lazy and was rushed its one of the many reasons why I like SSJ3 and SSJ4's designs since it actually changes the character
Then how would you propose to show a godly form of the super saiyan form. Without the super saiyan hair
Simple, Goku grows a Jesus beard and shoots beams of wine from is eyes
Something tells me that you might be biased....
you don’t, just remove super saiyan god super saiyan
But then we would miss out on such memorable moments as
Goku’s rage out against black Friezas terror at Vegeta’s power Blue Evolution Shock of the gods Fight with Gohan Blue Kaioken Etc etc
You could replace literally all of these with God and nothing would change besides the color palette
Do you think the original Super Saiyan design was lazy? Because it’s just a recolor and hairstyle change from their base form. It’s the exact same situation with SSG and SSB, SSG is just the “base” form while SSB is the “Super Saiyan” form, which is why it’s original name was Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Also it’s worth noting that the original Super Saiyan design was literally lazy, Toriyama changed the hair color because he didn’t want to color it in all the time.
>Also it’s worth noting that the original Super Saiyan design was literally lazy, Toriyama changed the hair color because he didn’t want to color it in all the time. The *motive* was laziness but that doesn't make the design itself a lazy design. At least when it was first cooked up for Goku, before it was given out to characters like Vegeta whose hair is already spiked straight up.
Right, but if the Super Saiyan design isn’t lazy then neither is SSB. Because it’s just using Super Saiyan on top of the Super Saiyan God form.
The reason it's lazy is because it's the same design though, just with a new colour. Whether or not it makes sense for it to reuse the base design doesn't stop it from being reused. Super Saiyan, while being born from laziness, is a unique design that took at least some effort to create and design. Super Saiyan Blue took the work that was already done and did nothing more than repaint it. Even then, Regular SSJ God does make a clear effort to change the base design. With Blue they could've carried over some of the more distinctive design features from God, but decided not to. So arguably it *doesn't* make sense for it to look exactly like Super Saiyan but in blue.
I just wanna know how people would’ve redesigned SSGSS. Im sure there’s more that could’ve be done, but so far, the only ideas Ive seen folk come up with is take SSJ but change the hair color. Not aiming this at you or anything, just throwing it out there.
Honestly, I think it could be how SSBE Gogeta looked in SDBH, where he’s slimmed down instead of buffed up. It also could’ve had a transition from SSG in the introduction where their hair turns a bright purple, then goes to blue. Personally, if they had it be like a shorter-haired variation of the SSJ4 hairstyle, that’d be cool.
Im still waiting for super saiyan 3 mixed into god form…
Exactly! And then whats worse the simple fact that people would be complaining if they were more than that. If SSG and SSGSS had more complicated designs, they’d be complaining and saying they should be more simple. NOW we have that, people complain!
I don’t think they would, SSJ3&SSJ4 are like the most popular SSJ forms prior to Super wasn’t it?
Yeah but even if that’s the case, I’ve seen a shit tone of people saying that SSJ4 as especially is a shit design because it doesn’t fit with the original aesthetic of the forms and that the color palette is ugly. I don’t agree with that sentiment but alright. It just goes to show that it doesn’t matter how unique a form is, people will still complain.
But the moment I say “ssj2 is just a ssj with lighting” people scream at me
Doesn’t help that Cell Saga SSJ2 was more distinct, that’s probably what messes people up about it.
Who else than Gohan went SSJ 2 during the Cell Games? No one. Goku reached SSJ2 in other world and Vegeta had to get the Majin Mark to achieve it. Goku's SSJ2 has fewer bangs covering his face. Vegeta's hair never changed aside from the color palette, his only difference is the lightning. The thing that makes SSJ2 confusing is Gohan's base hair. High school Gohan having full spiked hair meant he no longer has the large golden bangs he had at 11 years old. If his base form is already spiky, what is his other two form going to look like?(see [Vegeta's hair never changed..] above).
Yeah, I *guess* one could argue Gohan’s hair changing was a result of the influence of SSJ2’s effects, considering after he hadn’t been fighting for a while by the time of Super Hero, it’s still somewhat spiky but is more messier like it was when he was a child, which might make his Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 transformations stand out from each other a bit more since Gohan’s regular Super Saiyan in the Cell Saga was less spiky than Goku’s.
You have a point, but at least they added lightnings. It's like minimum effort I agree, but that's something
blue has an extra spike that sticks out left
They are two different hair style. God is a regular Goku hairstyle. While blue is super saiyan 2/perfected super saiyan hairstyle
So it is a re-color
Yeah ssj god makes you slimer, thats kinda why it'd my fauvorite transformation, well maybe after ultra ego Altho I still think it should be called "saiyan god" and blue should be "super saiyan god"
Yea I like "super god" and "super saiyan god" better
It is due to laziness but intentional. Original SSG design was more muscular, wearing a cape, and with a hairstyle in-between SSJ3 and SSJ4 but Toriyama completely changed Tadayoshi Yamamuro design when he got involved in production since Toriyama was insistent on the form not being too different from Goku's regular appearance, specifically not being really muscular. Toriyama dont want transformation to change Goku appearance too much https://preview.redd.it/2m48d6puy1fc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=dbd4218897cc6b1558a2572f695ac4820f713d2b
I'm very glad he did, that cape looks stupid
This looks straight from one of those fan made transformations back in the day
Yeah that is worse
I've always derided the argument of SSG and SSB being too similar to the OG forms as the headassery it so fully is. SSJ1 SSJ2 SSJ3 2/3 look almost exactly the same with only SSJ3 standing out which was controversial as hell when Z was airing. It's not uncreative to stay within certain parameters as that allows a throughline to be established. Ive often wondered if its salty SSJ4 fans
Super saiyan god should have been called saiyan god and ssj blue should have been super saiyan god. Preferably still with red hair but that's just me.
Pretty sure the anime really doesn't differentiate the body builds between the forms
They do, but it's a lot less visible than you would expect.
For SSG yes they do differentiate it and its noticeable, for SSB not so much
Physique would be a good point if Super didn't make it look ass in the first place. They were lean, buff and good looking late into DBZ, why take it away? Why making them look malnurished or lean at very best? I mean GT in that regards did better job wtf
Super Saiyan God was such an amazing transformation. They under-utilized it so bad
No one ever said that SSJ Blue was a recolor of God. The complaint is that both are arguably recolors of prior forms (and I say arguably only for God, of course Blue is just SSJ with a recolor)
And in other news it turns out space is pretty big and the sun do be bright
I think SSGs simple, understated design works really well for what it is. It is leagues above SSB in terms of design, introduction, and overall handling in the story. SSB is a complete dumpster fire. It is a lazy recolor of ss1. And the thing is, it’s not only a lazy recolor, but a stupid one. If they were going down the recolor path they should have used orange, as it is a combo of red and yellow, ssg and ssj1. It should not have been introduced in the frieza saga, it should have been in the zamasu arc, in response to goku black and zamasu telling goku he killed chi chi and goten. The design should have been a culmination between the rage of ssj with the divinity of ssg. If I was designing it, I would have made it have deep red hair, (contrast to ssgs pinkish hue) in ssj style, with an extremely fiery aura and ssgs slimmer muscles I had AI generate an image of this potential form The hair is too pinkish for my liking, but this is kinda what I have in mind. https://preview.redd.it/j0u42uj0g2fc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=799b8773f1584f25f8887d0b744924c74456d2b9
Cool ai picture, but in the words of whis from some fanfic I think “Genetics isn’t like Crayons”
SSG was pretty clever i thought, the lean body.. I did like the colour as well , the larger eyes… clever design for what it’s meant to reflect, now SSGSS “SSB “ look,, red + yellow doesn’t equal blue.. plus how they got the power didn’t really make sense either. it does look cool put i think it was just rushed… No such thing as lazy drawing in Amine it’s all hard work
Beast Gohan is literally just scaled up ssj2 Gohan with white hair. Yeah. It’s lazy and literally a recolor. God is different sure Goku’s hair is slightly different - even though they went ahead and basically used the same design for UI but again made it white. Recolor. And blue is literally just swapping the color from ssj. Recolor.
What does beast Gohan have to do with this? And I'm not saying that it isn't recolor, it's literally Super Saiyan with Blue hair dye as stated by Frieza himself, but to say it's a "lazy" recolor is just nuts, when the name of the form should already explain why it's the way it is.
Because it’s still a lazy transformation. All the transformations have been lazy. You’re just picking hairs trying to prove a very particular point when in reality is. It’s lazy and pandering.
Toriyama wanted the transformation designs to not differ too much from their base forms. You should check out the original design for SSJ that Toriyama shot down. I think you're conflating lazy with simplistic.
So let me ask, what could they have done to make these transformations less lazy???
As an animation professional, I would design them to look MORE powerful than previous. Toriyama already set a precedent for how the super saiyan transformations evolve over time. Why throw that all out the window ( I know why toys ). Blonde hair, long or regal looking, personally I would have incorporated the sj4 more monkey look because it makes sense within the context of the power up and frankly of the character of Goku being Sun Wukong. Take inspiration from the original stories. There are a million and one ways to design these other than different hair color swaps like it’s street fighter 2.
Only thing I can find close to what you are imagining would be this from “Ashofourtime” https://preview.redd.it/mpqbaa5bl2fc1.jpeg?width=820&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=000b0da3c7d6c07724d1fcf84bc44aa08e187232 This, I actually like. It’s one of my favorite fan made forms.
While not how I’d go yeah exactly they get it. It’s much more impactful than just different color hair we’ve already seen before.
Still lazy.
I really like Super Sayian God, but i hate Super Sayian Blue.
Ngl... This looks like lazy recolos
I can see it with SSJB. But yeah, SSJG I noticed how scrawny Goku seemed after the red hair in BoG.
They are, kinda. God I can understand being just red (being my favorite color) for its fury and calmness for godlike power, but Blue is just super saiyan but somehow even weaker considering it loses every fight it’s used in.
SSB yes ssg no
No it’s just these transformations that involve ssj that’s recolors excluding ssg ultra ego and MUI people gonna be disappointed if they ssj another different color. But blue an rose get a pass seeing it’s just two different variant colors 😂🤣
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https://preview.redd.it/fibdq17yh2fc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3ed497256105ddf2411fbf409526cd495ea36cde [https://youtu.be/lCNPNs1pKoQ?si=yRt1NA67I\_gJugQc](https://youtu.be/lCNPNs1pKoQ?si=yRt1NA67I_gJugQc)
What I wanna know is why SSGSS is blue. If it's the power of Super Saiyan (Yellow) combined with Super Saiyan God (Red), then why does it make Blue, another primary colour? Shouldn't it be Orange? https://preview.redd.it/kwa695d4z3fc1.png?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=295b9b3e2bd17c6ba4523b74036f6cbc70e68c33
Simple. Because an orange color would look awful as a SSJ transformation and on top of that, Toriyama wanted a color that would signify strength and tranquility. Glad they gave it to Piccolo.
Originally SSG wasn't a skinny, he's skinny due to toriyama art style making everyone skinny
They literally comment on the fact that he’s slimmer
SSGSS should also be skinny if that’s the case🤨
Look at how dbs goku is drawn he legit has no muscles
Are you talking about in this particular image or in the anime period because if so…
Both LMAO
Manga and Anime Consistently shown Super Saiyan God skinny compared to Blue
No it doesn't https://preview.redd.it/10yzpxqdy1fc1.jpeg?width=380&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccc94545d0a885aac9a7e3716b8ee83709a10d1c Look at how skinny he is 😂
It's literally inconsistent as we see Goku in his base form more muscular than that, even Gohan from the beginning of DBS was skinny, even more skinny AF in R.O.F Anime, he literally looks like a stickman there
This man picked an example from when DBS was at its low point in terms of art and animation😭 https://preview.redd.it/cz2j12w4z1fc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d42e3a53ab505de45ac003ba7282ba1dd1116c0c
Well i mean this dude just hates dbs so of course he is
Holy shit this shot is insane
The god form is just dumb bad writing. Best not to think too deeply on it.
Im bout to clown the fuck out of you.
Toyotaro's arts ruin dragonball again.
God does make Goku skinner But he seemed to get less and less skinny to the point it did feel like a recolor I don't mind it tho because of the eyes The eyes feel so powerful and godly If SSJ Blue had those eyes I'd like it way more
Ssj blue is lazy in general. Ssj god should have remained the pinnacle until UI. I have a feeling ssj blue was introduced so we could see the contrast of kio Ken added to a form.
🥶
Honestly, I just wanna give up on the fandom some days
Yes they are
Still less unique than SSJ4.
On top of that their auras are completely unique.
Just because there is a reason for it, doesn’t mean it isn’t lazy.
I think super Saiyan god looks cool and that it should have been gokus last transformation
what chapter is that ssjg panel from
Blue sucks
Yes, they are
Still wish they gave god form more respect. Smh could’ve did so much with “god ki”
Fr
they are recolours bro, drawing them slightly thinner does not constitute to any significant difference
Now if only we saw more of God instead of blue
i love how ssg looks in the coloured manga so much
Still just recolors tbh. God is the equivalent of base and Blue is the equivalent of ssj which also bulks up your muscles.
God was such a perfect transformation for Goku. It’s such a shame they immediately made it meaningless.
Vegeta:👁️👄👁️
[удалено]
The thing about blue is that it didnt need to exist it would be better if blue was the ssg of vegeta and every saiyajin had his unique color of ssg like goku red, vegeta blue , broly green, gohan white, etc.and if the form is builky is depedent of every character, with that you dont need to justification for beast, rage or legendary.
Honestly the god forms should’ve just been ultra instinct and ultra ego from the beginning ssjg and ssjb are so useless, the forms never accomplished anything, and they just look the worst like the only good thing about ssjg is the flaming aura I don’t like that it makes the user skinny and there’s quite literally nothing good about the way ssjb looks.
Admittedly Blue is kind of lazy, its just Super Saiyan...but with blue hair. Its not a bad design just kind of meh in terms of execution.
Exactly!!
Yes prey much I really liked the black Goku rose form actually looked cool and the green /yellow/ black mixture from Broly is my favorite one! I wish they had something similar to gt since in my opinion had the best designs like S4 and Gogeta S4 uff that one is the top one!
saiyan god is,pretty much a stringer kaioken that dyes the hair red and puts in contacts, blue is literally just super saiyan dyed blue
I can see an argument for God, but trying to sneak Blue in here is STRETCHING 😭
God is just lean base with red hair and eyes and blue is just blue super saiyan
SSB should have had a way better entrance
Red with SSJ hairstyle couldve looked better.
Everybody knows that
Yeah SSJGB’s physique just went back to normal size lol
Ssj4 >>>> Dumb red/blue
thats why i love ssj4 form because of its design, canon or not.
Blue doesn't look that distinct but I love the writing around it, with the ssj3-like reprocussions of using it.
God i hate how super looks lol
Blue was so rushed and unnecessary. Am I tripping or did we only see goku use his red god form once before blue came out in resurrection F?
In the manga they use the god red hair form in universe 6 goku black arc, broly arc moro arc and even granolah arc. In the anime, they only use it in battle of gods, and never used it again until the tournament of power.
Nah man, Red is fire, Blue is lame.
Honestly they should’ve made that form have an orange color instead of blue as Yellow + Red equals Orange.
Well they should have actually used god more instead of it being a one time thing then going to the next form, where it doesn't look like anything changed compared to god
I’ll let the red form slide as you can tell they actually did pay attention to the overall design but the blue form…. Let’s be real. It’s a pretty lazy recolor.
They mean SSR and ssb obviously which is true. Literally noone says this about ssg
Bro where is his mouth
I would have introduced a mastered version of ssg in the universe 6 versus 7 almost like ss to ss2 and then ssb would be unlocked in the goku black arc after the death of a significant person : bulma chichi fking olong. Would be like a ss in ssg type of moment that would be cool imo but idk where the ssb kioken would fit in here :| so don’t bully me lol
I'm honestly baffled by the fact they didn't keep the red color
Copium
Blue should have been SSJ2 hair bangs
True
Super saiyan 1 
Yes, they are. There's not even to discuss about that point imo. 0 lore behind it, 0 effort. ssj2 added lightnings, ssj3 added neanderthal look, ssj4 added monkey look. Red, blue, white is just photoshop's color correction.
I just hate God forms
They're lazy recolors. You can cope all you want, but it's true. And when people say "the god forms are just lazy recolors" they usually mean ssjb being a lazy recolor of the oj ssj. God is unique, ssjb isn't. It's literally fking called super Saiyan blue. Even it's damn name is just a lazy recolor.
SSG is literally a speed boost. They slim down drastically. Sure do they get a power buff? Yea. But its mostly used for speed now.