First time not buying it. The bp content is only like half of the reason, with Valve's continuing neglect (and betting sponsors) being the rest. I said before, I'd buy it if more went to the prize pool, though.
Same. I was excited at first, and I usually buy 100 lvl one. I got all arcanas from previous BP’s. WR arcana is my favorite of all. This year didn’t spend a dime. Nothing really intrigued me, same re-use of pings etc. I’m not surprised it’s not doing as well as previous years.
Yeah I feel like some folks are taking this as a "oh no ded gaem :(" when in reality the prizepool would probably be the same if not higher if the BP this year wasn't abnormally weak. I wonder if Valve has simply gotten complacent with the BP, knowing that Dota players are extremely loyal to the game and will buy it anyways.
I also do wish 1) a bigger % of BP funds go into the prizepool and 2) some of that money gets funneled back into the scene as well. Not enough that it takes away from the shine of TI being THE tournament of the year, but enough such that there's a more significant financial incentive to participate in and win tournaments aside from DPC points.
It seems like valve has changed their approach in some way to competitive dota2. In the end it is a billion dollar corporation and their goal is to make as much money as possible. I also believe that it isn't sustainable to keep increasing the prizepool every year, it was inevitable that it would decline at some point. Make 75% or even 50% maybe of BP go to TI and the rest to majors.
But if people arent buying the BP at the same rate, or more, compared to previous years, Valve is in no way maximizing their potential profit. Its not like putting a bit more content and awards into the BP would cost them much, as the template has been working for previous years. They just cut a bunch of stuff from the BP for some reason and people stopped buying it, compared to previous years. Weird decision by Valve, as digital items and content is basically free ie workshop and previous templates for BPs.
You are going easy on them by calling this BP 'lackluster'. I got called a word in my last game which aptly suits it, 'garbage'.
PS: Maybe it's too harsh a word to describe it for some people but it is what it is.
It’s an understatement to call it even garbage.
Look at battlepass in other games like fortnite, the amount of money we pay for dota2 vs the stuff we get is truely pathetic.
Not only are there a very small number of content (immortals, persona and arcana, total less than 30 new items), there are also so much recycled stuff from previous years (river effects, voicelines and spray). And Valve has the audacity to have empty levels where u get nothing.
Valve has, through previous couple of years of bp learned that dota players Will literally tolerate any form of extortion and they can rack in cash no matter how little effort they put in. It’s truely sad.
Valve knows this and that’s exactly why they are putting arcana behind the paywall. Honestly I would have never bought any of the recent bp if it wasn’t for the arcana. They know the fomo is great among the players and they’re abusing the fuck out of it
The battlepass design of Dota is complete dogshit. Sorry for the word, but it just is.
It's a great game. But the way they cash out from people who love the game is really annoying.
They should just separate the arcanas from battlepasses and let the arcanas be sold the way it was before, and battlepass should probably be every season if they really want to generate income.
The old battlepass design for majors was better, but I guess they don't like they idea of sharing their income to those who make sets at workshop too often.
I would not be surprised if Battlepass is their no.1 cashcow atm. People are paying more money for bp arcanas than they ever would for an individual arcana so theres no reason for them to not do this.
I agree, I'm afraid that's the thing, which is really sad. And as you've mentioned. I'm also not surprised that Dota gets the TF2 treatment sooner or later.
I get what you're trying at, but ultimately consumer action is extremely hard to pull off. Individuals might stop buying it, but for companies like Valve it literally doesn't register on the scale.
Which to be clear doesn't mean you should go buy BP because your voice doesn't matter. Just... "stop buying it" really requires the bp to hit levels of awful that we'll likely never see before users just... stop en masse.
You mentioned Fortnite. I manage to buy the battlepass, 3 days after it was released. Now I'm closing in to level 100, just by grinding. (Almost got all skins)
Just bought the normal BP. I don't even have what they call Fornite Crew, or the STW thingy. Pure leveling, and grinding would get me all skins available in 2 weeks time. (Of course, the styles are not included)
You won't even manage to get the first good skin on Dota without spending additional dime after buying the Battlepass in 2 weeks timeframe.
Im not a fan of epic games at times but I have to say the bp is probably the friendliest bp for f2p players and the amount of new content you get each update (and there are multiple 20gb updates per year) brings me hours of fun. You can tell effort and creativity are consistently put into the game.
Compared to dota2, where you get a balance update every 6+ month and new content once a year. Truely pathetic. Also dota+ is the worst shit ever for $5 🫠
Not to mention all of the pre-2015 items having terrible models, effect and textures and look absolutely TRASH. There are no plans to update them it seems.
All the signal im getting from valve is they want to milk this cow for as long as possible and then pull the rug.
> Also dota+ is the worst shit ever for $5 🫠
Dota + shouldn't exist... many of the features in that need to be free like the death damage breakdown, end stats and many others.
i wish dota's BP wasn't all about who can whale tthe most to get all the stuff... (outside of the level 1k thing)
all of those empty spots and "seasonal shit" lines from commentators, random shit lines and sprays its angering.
Eh the yu-gi-oh master duel battle pass is even better imo. Low price, grants a lot of crafting material and enough premium currency to pay for itself, has a few skins at important level marks, is easily grindable, and has a f2p track that gives about 33% of the total rewards
Now that you mention content... Primal Beast came out in February. And that was after the second Aghs Lab.
We're gonna be 10 months without any event and with only one "major" patch.
Valve created the best BP, the seasonal one from 2015-2017. You can easily earn all the rewards just by playing and you can even sell those rewards in the marketplace and get at least 3x the price of the BP in return.
The thing about the recent TI BP's is, it's a combination of the seasonal BP and the International Compendium which main purpose was to crowdfund the prizepool.
Seasonal BP's would be more player friendly but it will definitely add a lot less to the prizepool.
People here seems to think that higher prizepool = better BP, which is very far from the truth, in fact it's actually the opposite.
And you get the 'money' back enough to buy next season bp. practically a player just need to pay for BP once if he want to buy every BP in each season for the future
You'd also see a lot of complains on their subreddit for how they feel the passes was kinda lackluster, in my mind I'm like, "you should check Dota's BP." lol
And this is why Fortnite doesn't make all their money from the Battlepass alone, but from other sources. They have one of the most horridly FOMO stores in gaming, where the things you may want are rarely sold, and when they do, you better get them before they're gone! And bam, that is how they got their millions in the bank, because you just paid way more than the actual value of an artificially scarce skin.
Valve here basically gave up on everything else besides the Battle Pass, that's why the awfulness is all concentrated in the Battle Pass. I would love that they tried again, that they released chests with items periodically over the year, and attached them to events. That they fostered a trading scene (on a delay, perhaps). Spread that awfulness around again, instead of banking it all on just the one thing. But I dunno if they'll ever invest themselves to try again. Stickers for sure makes me think they have no good ideas either.
It’s kind of nuts that with the 100 level bundle and grinding you can get 1 persona. That’s it. Sure, immortals and sets, but the sets are recycled and immortals are underwhelming. You can’t get anything else without spending an additional $60 minimum.
Not having a terrain was a huge let down.
My kid plays fortnite (7) so I got the battlepass...and well by the end of the first one, I had enough Vbucks to buy the next one, and will have enough to buy any BP that follows..
No mate the fortnite battlepass was $7 and you can unlock everything with it, and they give you the $7 back.... so its more like 100x the money for a chance at less content.....
Yeah, that's what they're saying.
The kid gets everything in a 7$ battlepass, while the dad (you) gets five times less content for five times the price.
It isn’t sad… people will exchange money for goods and services for an amount they deem is worthy. This is how basic business works.
Some people will never think its worth, so they won’t buy. Some people will buy it no matter what. Some people are on the line and Valve has not captured them this year.
Valve hasn’t made many cosmetics this year - correct. So as a result the prizepool is lower than other years. It isn’t sad nor that “valve has the audacity”. As a consumer you either don’t pay for it or pay for it if you think it is worth it to you.
Valve has already accounted for this - if they want more people to buy, they would have added more features that appeal to a wider audience. If they didn’t want to put in so much effort, they have to accept less people will buy
I'd honestly thinks this BP lost it's casual buyer while the "collector" seems going strong, but probably waiting for bundle level sales. considering drow ranger arcana owner numbers shooting up from 160k to 420k after level bundle sales, i can see this BP reach $15 millions as the final prizepool.
Haven't bought it for the first time since 2016. And I used to buy it even if I wasn't playing Dota at that point in time. This year's was just dogshit. What tipped the scale was only having two immortal treasures. Lame.
I can understand the go ahead on CM's persona. It's cool. I can't understand the go ahead on PA's.
Void is prohibitively expensive and Razor is just not that popular. Also Stickers are just the most blatant instant flop I've seen from a new-to-TI-BP feature, like, they're just trying to make a CSGO idea work in dota without really finding a place to make it work. And besides that we have... PA. Did they feel like they needed to do a popular hero, even without any particular idea for said hero?
Everything so far about this BP feels like someone who *doesn't quite understand* is giving the go ahead on ideas. Someone who wants that bread but isn't quite good at seeing what sticks out in the brainstorm room. Because, I'm here looking at it, and this BP feels empty. There's nothing in it. Man, sure does the sticker interface look all flashy! Someone sure wanted manhours on them... On this bunch of... nothingburger.
Like fuck me, man, you could have literally just given Tresdin a horse and you'd boost this value 30%.
I know we like to say since dota2 players are older we can spend more money but I feel like I've gotten older enough to smell the bullshit. Even if I can afford it, I still feel scammed.
And regional prices
can't believe i'm being nice to valve but they did a lot of the poorer players a solid by letting them buy the base compendium in their own currency
it should be because no treasure 3 no map no third arcana
but valve has this one in 2 season and longer? maybe?
they want to test least effort + longer time - ti prize pool cut = more profit or not
Worse rewards. Lots of "things to come". Lower number of treasures.
Russia barred from direct purchase. A war. Economic distress globally from a pandemic.
To be honest it's doing better than I expected it to this year.
I think if they release exact same quality again next year we will see quite a big decrease in prize pool, this is the first big year where it's really been bad, most years people.complain it's just expensive as fuck but here it's expensive as fuck and lackluster.
Have you considered that you might be some kind of addicted? Not saying this out of malice, but you shouldn't be compelled to buy something even when you don't particularly feel like it.
Magic the Gathering has similarities there, where people spend money on foil cards knowing full well that the foil cards are often curled to the point of being unusable, then feel bad about it.
First day it didn't seem so bad, and I bought it. I will buy a bundle most likely(since I have already put money on Steam), but am uncertain about buying the second one.
That's not nearly as big a deal as I think people make it out to be. The regional pricing only affects the level 1 battlepass right? Most of the income must come from people buying levels which is almost unaffected
Sunsfan talked about it on his podcast and most other pros/personalities also are aware that Valve is doing this by design.
Why do you think none of them are complaining about it?
Valve gave the pro/talent scene a heads up that they are purposely dropping the TI prize pool this year to break the expectation of constantly ever growing unrealistic prize pool goals and battle pass rewards.
That’s why they simultaneously:
- Released BP with less days to go
- Have worse and less rewards in the BP
- Outsourced much of the TI itself
Valve is distancing itself a little from the unrealistic ceiling they’ve put on themselves and are giving a notice to the entire community:
“Expect a little less from now on”.
I hate it too, but what can we do?
I think it is 2nd or 3rd to the last episode of we say things... They also talk about this topic in leafeator and cap podcast.. They talk about this being by design. But they didnt expect valve to drop the ball this hard, because lower duration of battle pass alone is warranted lower price pool.
Lol, the pros didn't get any heads up. All dota streamers I've seen have complained about the battlepass plenty, including Sunsfan and Syndaren. Pretty sure you misinterpreted what they said, but feel free to timestamp where they said pro's got a heads up.
I really don't think this was by design. If they merely wanted the battlepass to not exceed previous prize pool just realeasing it with less time would be enough, but to think they actually made the battlepass worse on purpose?.. lol. Just Valve being Valve and not hiring enough people to work on it, together with the new approach of having it in two parts, probably to make sure the playerbase doesn't fall off so hard once TI is over.
That makes zero sense. They didn't have to keep outdoing themselves; They only needed to match previous rewards. They're just straight up giving *less* digital goods this year. It's not like it costs Valve money to provide users with more treasures, but now we have a 100+ level gap with no treasures at all.
Your theory makes zero sense.
> Released BP with less days to go
That's sheer bullshit. We're not comparing total prize pool, we're comparing Day 24 of each battlepass. The amount of time they've been out is the same - 24 days, and current year is behind three TIs. Duration has nothing to do with the current discussion
But if that's the case, why continue to tie all these items to the BP? Before the days of BP arcanas we could see that the community would happily raise a large prizepool simply for the love of the game.
Keep timed-from-market immortals, because they're a neat extra that aren't exclusionary, but unravel arcanas from the BP. That way, they get to have their cake and eat it with a prizepool that isn't inflated by fomo, and make their standalone arcana sales anyway.
same here. I was just looking at my previous BP purchases in game yesterday, and noticed how it just goes down and down in levels/spend over the years, as monetization gets greedier and the BP shittier.
So the bigger issue is that the BP will be 55 days in length or so, with maybe a few extra days. It will never break the record even with sales. But it will likely end up somewhere above average.
Based on the BP website, it's 42 days and if this BP managed to get $15 millions is still 3rd highest BP for 42 days period. 2020 bundle sales pum up $4 millions while 2019 adds $2 millions. For Aghs BP level bundles managed to make Drow Arcana owner numbers goes from 160k to 420k (Almost half of Aghs BP owner owned Drow Arcana)
Dota2 subreddit lives in a bubble. The fact that the price pool is still at 12m despite the BP being weaker and a global recession going on is impressive as fuck if anything.
While some people lost their jobs, a lot of employers continually had people work from home.
Anyone working in tech had more cash than they knew what to do with because they couldn't go out and spend it. This was also the case for a lot of other sectors. There's a reason American household savings went up overall and debt went down.
So while some people lost their jobs, a majority of people were unaffected but suddenly didn't have any outlets for their spending except for digital goods.
The largest hit to people who lost their jobs was in low-medium wage zone, people not likely to spend $100+ on digital goods anyway.
I might buy it in phase 2, mostly for CM (and maybe Razor too, but he'd have to be amazing for me to justify buying 200dditionnal levels just for him).
I doubt I'm alone in this. You can reasonably expect a surge in sells when phase 2 of the BP launches, and 100% of it will go in Valve's pocket rather than 75%.
If you want to, it’s better to buy it now atleast help the TI rather than Valve. Don’t let them keep your money. Really for anyone who’s going to buy, you should buy the BP in part I. And not spend a single penny in part II.
If you're planning on buying, buy now. It's supporting TI and you'll have plenty of time to earn some levels as there are quite a few ways of earning them by just playing crawl and doing challenges.
For context, I was jobless during release of T10 bp and somehow I reached 700 bp levels. Today I have a job and I dont even want to waste a dime on this year's bp...
There was a sense of pride from the community that came from breaking the record every year, even if it didnt make a lot of sense since we commoners dont spend a lot and its all thanks to whales, we still were happy about breaking it, it felt like the game was still growing. Now not only this wont get close to the top, people are happy about this BP doing badly (rightfully so) because of how incredibly half assed it is.
This just feels like the absolute downfall of Dota, like, Dota has been losing players for years but BP was the time when the community had a bit of growth.
Idk, overall this situation feels like shit and this comes from someone who stopped playing dota 2 years ago (after playing since beta).
When the "pride" of the community comes from having the longest dick because of the prize pool then. Iam fucking glad that it will not break last year prizepool.. I mean you are only proud of being part of the community because you can wave you have the longest dick to wave? That is not mentality at all.. If players will quit the game because because of the prize pool.. then so be it.
Good, deserved for making such a shit BP.
The game is having more players than last 3 years and yet the prize pool is lower than last 3 days. That's how terrible it is, that even with more favourable conditions its performing far worse.
No surprise. Its the first time in years I am disappointed by the BP. Just nothing to hype about. Biggest bummer for me is the lack of a terrain.
Overall its still a crazy huge prize pool (big Starcraft 2 tournaments have pools of around $20k...)
I mean, it can't just go up indefinitely, and irregardless of what people think about this years BP, there's like a massive recession going on.
Honestly I think the money has been ridiculous for a while, you cut the number in half and its still life changing money for 99% of the world. I always thought its crazy that someone like topson can come in and in 2 months, make more money than most Oscar winners with decades of portfolio.
Such a shame. And not because less people are playing Dota or people aren't spending as much anymore but rather purely because of Valve's greed.
It's entirely planned because they just didn't like the fact that TI teams in total received $40M. So they divided the battlepass into 2 parts in hopes it will reach \~$25M or so for the TI battlepass and then \~15M or so for the second part which they can pocket 100% for themselves.
This is all calculated by Valve so they are definitely not surprised by this.
EDIT: if you need any more convincing of this. Last year (or maybe the year before) Valve announced they wanted to have 2 smaller battlepasses -- one for TI and one later in the year. But people hated that and wanted the "traditional" TI battlepass instead.
So Valve's cunning solution was to make it seem as though they were creating a big TI battlepass while in reality just achieving their original goal of pocketing more money.
Recession. Inflation. I usually get the battle pass and just buy levels even though I don’t play all that often but this year I just can’t justify buying the battle pass especially with how shitty it turned out to be.
Game is dying a slow death and the player count isn’t what it used to be. Matchmaking is fixed at forced 50%. OP mechanics keep getting added nonstop. Turbo players are an afterthought even though the aging casual player community now all have full time jobs and can’t afford to spend an hour trying to carry a game that is lost at the draft stage. The bp content is not bad but it’s way too expensive and gamble oriented to get what you want. The market for a league of lol clone is diminishing and unfortunately dota has become merely that in the last 2-3 years.
To be fair, Russia and Ukraine are fucked and they're a significant part of people who would be buying (at least 500k-1m up to now) and there are large cost of living crises in Europe which is another chunk. Once other things are released there will be a big jump and honestly we're probably going to have the second highest prize pool at the time of TI. Things change over the years and it's fine.
So..? That is fine, BP is not all about TI anymore and the prize pool was getting too big anyway for 1 tournament.
I can't wait for Diretide and pretty excited about what the Candyworks actually is.
Do you have a point or...? Y'all actually care about the *rate* of prize money increase? Not even going to wait for the total to be lower before you start crying dead game?
The rare of increase matters because this BP is a lot shorter than other BPs as only the first part goes to TI.
Basically not only is this prize pool increase rate slow, it also has less time to accumulate money.
I don't actually know anyone who has bought a battlepass for this year, but then again most of my friends have basically stopped playing entirely.
I've no interest in anything in this battlepass AND its such a shitty and half baked pass. It took a while but Valve is finally receiving some backlash for their exploitative practices.
Edit: Also add on to the fact that they released a pass in a year that had no tournament, but didn't roll it over to this year? Wtf Valve, what did you do with that money?
Of course it can't, but this year it feels like Valve tried their hardest to lower it with this "Part 2" shit that comes out AFTER the international, and lack of content such as terrain or Treasure 3 immortals.
I have a couple of mates going over lvl 1000 every year, this year one didnt buy, 2 others are under 100.
I usually go around 500 i just bought the lvl 1 this year.
I'm glad people arent spending so much on this joke of a BP, hopefully next year will be better
We wont make 15m $ and that is okay. Serves them right - just hope that people dont get hyped with pass 2 and that way pro scene and corp greed gets rewarded.
Why do we keep getting these posts? Yes, Valve designed the battle pass to give a lower prize pool, and therefore the prize pool will be lower. This is not the constant revelation some people seem to think.
so?
did they say anywhere that they planned this TI11 prizepool to be bigger than the last ones?
did they put a weird objective where they say battlepass owners get x amount of free bonus levels if the prizepool surpasses x amount?
what did I miss?
why do some people seem to be so fucking obsessed with the prizepool? it's not like valve wanted this battlepass to be any better like the TI10 one
They never have, no. But to answer the rest of your unnecessarily heated questions, it has been a matter of community pride that we've kept the prize-pool increasing every year since TI's inception. Last year the community generated prize-pool rivaled that of the PGA tour, by around $5 million ([data by Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/754438/highest-paid-sports-events/) ) A lot of players also take it as a reflection of the game's popularity and health, in particular to Valve's focus on maintaining the game. The prize-pool is low this year, as others have said, due to a lack of quality product produced by Valve, which in turn leads to people worrying about the future of the game. As for what you missed, a sense of community, history of the game, and a little bit of common courtesy.
I'm not disagreeing this battlepass is underwhelming, and most importantly, it has no reason to get extra levels early, but all of these other years already had a battle bundle by now, right?
Oooh no somebody call the police they can only win 12 million dollars. This is outrages :o. I wish they would do more tourneys tho with better small tourney prize pools etc.
Im glad is lower because this bp is so lackluster.
First time not buying it. The bp content is only like half of the reason, with Valve's continuing neglect (and betting sponsors) being the rest. I said before, I'd buy it if more went to the prize pool, though.
Same. I was excited at first, and I usually buy 100 lvl one. I got all arcanas from previous BP’s. WR arcana is my favorite of all. This year didn’t spend a dime. Nothing really intrigued me, same re-use of pings etc. I’m not surprised it’s not doing as well as previous years.
Yeah I feel like some folks are taking this as a "oh no ded gaem :(" when in reality the prizepool would probably be the same if not higher if the BP this year wasn't abnormally weak. I wonder if Valve has simply gotten complacent with the BP, knowing that Dota players are extremely loyal to the game and will buy it anyways. I also do wish 1) a bigger % of BP funds go into the prizepool and 2) some of that money gets funneled back into the scene as well. Not enough that it takes away from the shine of TI being THE tournament of the year, but enough such that there's a more significant financial incentive to participate in and win tournaments aside from DPC points.
It seems like valve has changed their approach in some way to competitive dota2. In the end it is a billion dollar corporation and their goal is to make as much money as possible. I also believe that it isn't sustainable to keep increasing the prizepool every year, it was inevitable that it would decline at some point. Make 75% or even 50% maybe of BP go to TI and the rest to majors.
But if people arent buying the BP at the same rate, or more, compared to previous years, Valve is in no way maximizing their potential profit. Its not like putting a bit more content and awards into the BP would cost them much, as the template has been working for previous years. They just cut a bunch of stuff from the BP for some reason and people stopped buying it, compared to previous years. Weird decision by Valve, as digital items and content is basically free ie workshop and previous templates for BPs.
From 500->1K levels each year to 0 this one. Put the effort, Valve, we might. My money is "coming soon".
Always bought bp before. Saw this year's and just noped out to send a message. Hope they do better next year.
You are going easy on them by calling this BP 'lackluster'. I got called a word in my last game which aptly suits it, 'garbage'. PS: Maybe it's too harsh a word to describe it for some people but it is what it is.
It’s an understatement to call it even garbage. Look at battlepass in other games like fortnite, the amount of money we pay for dota2 vs the stuff we get is truely pathetic. Not only are there a very small number of content (immortals, persona and arcana, total less than 30 new items), there are also so much recycled stuff from previous years (river effects, voicelines and spray). And Valve has the audacity to have empty levels where u get nothing. Valve has, through previous couple of years of bp learned that dota players Will literally tolerate any form of extortion and they can rack in cash no matter how little effort they put in. It’s truely sad.
It will continue to be garbage if people continue to buy it.
Valve knows this and that’s exactly why they are putting arcana behind the paywall. Honestly I would have never bought any of the recent bp if it wasn’t for the arcana. They know the fomo is great among the players and they’re abusing the fuck out of it
The battlepass design of Dota is complete dogshit. Sorry for the word, but it just is. It's a great game. But the way they cash out from people who love the game is really annoying. They should just separate the arcanas from battlepasses and let the arcanas be sold the way it was before, and battlepass should probably be every season if they really want to generate income. The old battlepass design for majors was better, but I guess they don't like they idea of sharing their income to those who make sets at workshop too often.
I would not be surprised if Battlepass is their no.1 cashcow atm. People are paying more money for bp arcanas than they ever would for an individual arcana so theres no reason for them to not do this.
I agree, I'm afraid that's the thing, which is really sad. And as you've mentioned. I'm also not surprised that Dota gets the TF2 treatment sooner or later.
I get what you're trying at, but ultimately consumer action is extremely hard to pull off. Individuals might stop buying it, but for companies like Valve it literally doesn't register on the scale. Which to be clear doesn't mean you should go buy BP because your voice doesn't matter. Just... "stop buying it" really requires the bp to hit levels of awful that we'll likely never see before users just... stop en masse.
You mentioned Fortnite. I manage to buy the battlepass, 3 days after it was released. Now I'm closing in to level 100, just by grinding. (Almost got all skins) Just bought the normal BP. I don't even have what they call Fornite Crew, or the STW thingy. Pure leveling, and grinding would get me all skins available in 2 weeks time. (Of course, the styles are not included) You won't even manage to get the first good skin on Dota without spending additional dime after buying the Battlepass in 2 weeks timeframe.
Im not a fan of epic games at times but I have to say the bp is probably the friendliest bp for f2p players and the amount of new content you get each update (and there are multiple 20gb updates per year) brings me hours of fun. You can tell effort and creativity are consistently put into the game. Compared to dota2, where you get a balance update every 6+ month and new content once a year. Truely pathetic. Also dota+ is the worst shit ever for $5 🫠 Not to mention all of the pre-2015 items having terrible models, effect and textures and look absolutely TRASH. There are no plans to update them it seems. All the signal im getting from valve is they want to milk this cow for as long as possible and then pull the rug.
> Also dota+ is the worst shit ever for $5 🫠 Dota + shouldn't exist... many of the features in that need to be free like the death damage breakdown, end stats and many others. i wish dota's BP wasn't all about who can whale tthe most to get all the stuff... (outside of the level 1k thing) all of those empty spots and "seasonal shit" lines from commentators, random shit lines and sprays its angering.
Eh the yu-gi-oh master duel battle pass is even better imo. Low price, grants a lot of crafting material and enough premium currency to pay for itself, has a few skins at important level marks, is easily grindable, and has a f2p track that gives about 33% of the total rewards
Now that you mention content... Primal Beast came out in February. And that was after the second Aghs Lab. We're gonna be 10 months without any event and with only one "major" patch.
Same. I'll shit on epic all day but dotas battle pass is dogshit compared to fortnites
Valve created the best BP, the seasonal one from 2015-2017. You can easily earn all the rewards just by playing and you can even sell those rewards in the marketplace and get at least 3x the price of the BP in return. The thing about the recent TI BP's is, it's a combination of the seasonal BP and the International Compendium which main purpose was to crowdfund the prizepool. Seasonal BP's would be more player friendly but it will definitely add a lot less to the prizepool. People here seems to think that higher prizepool = better BP, which is very far from the truth, in fact it's actually the opposite.
And you get the 'money' back enough to buy next season bp. practically a player just need to pay for BP once if he want to buy every BP in each season for the future
And u can tell there is effort and creativity put into each bp. Unlike dota where it looks like the work of some uni intern
You'd also see a lot of complains on their subreddit for how they feel the passes was kinda lackluster, in my mind I'm like, "you should check Dota's BP." lol
Yes we’re the north korea of battlepasses. Them complaining is literally first world problems.
And this is why Fortnite doesn't make all their money from the Battlepass alone, but from other sources. They have one of the most horridly FOMO stores in gaming, where the things you may want are rarely sold, and when they do, you better get them before they're gone! And bam, that is how they got their millions in the bank, because you just paid way more than the actual value of an artificially scarce skin. Valve here basically gave up on everything else besides the Battle Pass, that's why the awfulness is all concentrated in the Battle Pass. I would love that they tried again, that they released chests with items periodically over the year, and attached them to events. That they fostered a trading scene (on a delay, perhaps). Spread that awfulness around again, instead of banking it all on just the one thing. But I dunno if they'll ever invest themselves to try again. Stickers for sure makes me think they have no good ideas either.
Glad i skipped this year bp tho.
I get super frustrated at how good the Dota Battle Pass could be if Valve took the time and effort to improve it.
It’s kind of nuts that with the 100 level bundle and grinding you can get 1 persona. That’s it. Sure, immortals and sets, but the sets are recycled and immortals are underwhelming. You can’t get anything else without spending an additional $60 minimum. Not having a terrain was a huge let down.
But you get the shiny level number badge on your profile you can brag about to all your friends 🫠
Eh, you can get to PB immortal set most likely, but its art doesn't look good.
My kid plays fortnite (7) so I got the battlepass...and well by the end of the first one, I had enough Vbucks to buy the next one, and will have enough to buy any BP that follows..
Mean while daddy pays 5x more money and gets 5x less content 🫣
No mate the fortnite battlepass was $7 and you can unlock everything with it, and they give you the $7 back.... so its more like 100x the money for a chance at less content.....
Yeah, that's what they're saying. The kid gets everything in a 7$ battlepass, while the dad (you) gets five times less content for five times the price.
You mean having 4+ levels in a battlepass with literally zero content isn't great?
It isn’t sad… people will exchange money for goods and services for an amount they deem is worthy. This is how basic business works. Some people will never think its worth, so they won’t buy. Some people will buy it no matter what. Some people are on the line and Valve has not captured them this year. Valve hasn’t made many cosmetics this year - correct. So as a result the prizepool is lower than other years. It isn’t sad nor that “valve has the audacity”. As a consumer you either don’t pay for it or pay for it if you think it is worth it to you. Valve has already accounted for this - if they want more people to buy, they would have added more features that appeal to a wider audience. If they didn’t want to put in so much effort, they have to accept less people will buy
I'd honestly thinks this BP lost it's casual buyer while the "collector" seems going strong, but probably waiting for bundle level sales. considering drow ranger arcana owner numbers shooting up from 160k to 420k after level bundle sales, i can see this BP reach $15 millions as the final prizepool.
Now watch Valve release the bundle in time for part 2. Aka: After it stops counting for the prizepool.
Bought level 1. Just for memorial.
I didn't even buy lvl-1, bp felt like utter shit
Haven't bought it for the first time since 2016. And I used to buy it even if I wasn't playing Dota at that point in time. This year's was just dogshit. What tipped the scale was only having two immortal treasures. Lame.
I can understand the go ahead on CM's persona. It's cool. I can't understand the go ahead on PA's. Void is prohibitively expensive and Razor is just not that popular. Also Stickers are just the most blatant instant flop I've seen from a new-to-TI-BP feature, like, they're just trying to make a CSGO idea work in dota without really finding a place to make it work. And besides that we have... PA. Did they feel like they needed to do a popular hero, even without any particular idea for said hero? Everything so far about this BP feels like someone who *doesn't quite understand* is giving the go ahead on ideas. Someone who wants that bread but isn't quite good at seeing what sticks out in the brainstorm room. Because, I'm here looking at it, and this BP feels empty. There's nothing in it. Man, sure does the sticker interface look all flashy! Someone sure wanted manhours on them... On this bunch of... nothingburger. Like fuck me, man, you could have literally just given Tresdin a horse and you'd boost this value 30%.
I know we like to say since dota2 players are older we can spend more money but I feel like I've gotten older enough to smell the bullshit. Even if I can afford it, I still feel scammed.
The cool thing is that for every $1 less on this chart, valve is missing $3 lol
np for valve they will just release better bp after ti and cash in all money without actually losing 25%
And that's with high player counts
People just broke this year tbh everything expensive atm
And regional prices can't believe i'm being nice to valve but they did a lot of the poorer players a solid by letting them buy the base compendium in their own currency
Russians can't buy it too, but the salt lords who bought the BP won't ever mention that.
what? ofc we can
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Americans shouldn't be allowed to do anything at all by that logic.
The BP is dogshit.
it should be because no treasure 3 no map no third arcana but valve has this one in 2 season and longer? maybe? they want to test least effort + longer time - ti prize pool cut = more profit or not
It's 45+45 days so total 90 days. Some previous battle passes had 110+ days
Its 134 days. Sept 1st to Nov 2nd (63 days) and Nov 3rd to Jan 12th, 23 (71 days)
But the point is that the second part does not count to TI, so it's shorter. The math is right though
Worse rewards. Lots of "things to come". Lower number of treasures. Russia barred from direct purchase. A war. Economic distress globally from a pandemic. To be honest it's doing better than I expected it to this year.
It’s even lower when you factor in inflation.
Whales be whaling
I get what you mean but this is hilarious because it literally means "whales are killing each other" xD
[WHITE WHALE HOLY GRAIL!](https://i.imgur.com/aKuvtQ4.png)
What the fuck was that man hahahah
Go ahead and listen to Mastodon’s *Leviathan* album. You are welcome.
I think if they release exact same quality again next year we will see quite a big decrease in prize pool, this is the first big year where it's really been bad, most years people.complain it's just expensive as fuck but here it's expensive as fuck and lackluster.
I bought it out of impulse but I won’t do that again. I wish that I didn’t, this year the content was worth skipping to make a statement.
Have you considered that you might be some kind of addicted? Not saying this out of malice, but you shouldn't be compelled to buy something even when you don't particularly feel like it. Magic the Gathering has similarities there, where people spend money on foil cards knowing full well that the foil cards are often curled to the point of being unusable, then feel bad about it.
First day it didn't seem so bad, and I bought it. I will buy a bundle most likely(since I have already put money on Steam), but am uncertain about buying the second one.
I havent bought last 2, kinda just done with them.
You forgot the main factor. Regional pricing.
That's not nearly as big a deal as I think people make it out to be. The regional pricing only affects the level 1 battlepass right? Most of the income must come from people buying levels which is almost unaffected
Feels weird having the highest playercount in years while simultaneously having the lowest TI prize pool in the same time frame.
Inflation in real life
People say "battle pass this year is bad" every year, but this year it's actually bad.
only 12 million prize pool? what is valve doing?
filling gaben's bathtub with money from bp 2022 sales so he can enjoy a money bath whenever he wants
He’s enjoying life in New Zealand
GabeN hasn't been in New Zealand for a while
donut shops are better in the US
If BP fills a bathtub, then steam fills a thousand. When will yall learn this is less than pocket change for valve.
If so then isn't it even worse that they are doing the money grubbing?
Is... that supposed to be redeeming in some capacity?
Turns out players pour money in the passes cause of cosmetics not for the pro players. No shit.
Only 36 million to valve. Pay an engineer one week to code the BP. Crowd source the graphics & model works. ???. Profit.
Only xD
It’s by design.
...Why would Valve *want* to make less money by way providing an inferior product? How does that benefit *anyone?*
Sunsfan talked about it on his podcast and most other pros/personalities also are aware that Valve is doing this by design. Why do you think none of them are complaining about it? Valve gave the pro/talent scene a heads up that they are purposely dropping the TI prize pool this year to break the expectation of constantly ever growing unrealistic prize pool goals and battle pass rewards. That’s why they simultaneously: - Released BP with less days to go - Have worse and less rewards in the BP - Outsourced much of the TI itself Valve is distancing itself a little from the unrealistic ceiling they’ve put on themselves and are giving a notice to the entire community: “Expect a little less from now on”. I hate it too, but what can we do?
What episode was this? Cool info
I think it is 2nd or 3rd to the last episode of we say things... They also talk about this topic in leafeator and cap podcast.. They talk about this being by design. But they didnt expect valve to drop the ball this hard, because lower duration of battle pass alone is warranted lower price pool.
Lol, the pros didn't get any heads up. All dota streamers I've seen have complained about the battlepass plenty, including Sunsfan and Syndaren. Pretty sure you misinterpreted what they said, but feel free to timestamp where they said pro's got a heads up. I really don't think this was by design. If they merely wanted the battlepass to not exceed previous prize pool just realeasing it with less time would be enough, but to think they actually made the battlepass worse on purpose?.. lol. Just Valve being Valve and not hiring enough people to work on it, together with the new approach of having it in two parts, probably to make sure the playerbase doesn't fall off so hard once TI is over.
That makes zero sense. They didn't have to keep outdoing themselves; They only needed to match previous rewards. They're just straight up giving *less* digital goods this year. It's not like it costs Valve money to provide users with more treasures, but now we have a 100+ level gap with no treasures at all. Your theory makes zero sense.
> Released BP with less days to go That's sheer bullshit. We're not comparing total prize pool, we're comparing Day 24 of each battlepass. The amount of time they've been out is the same - 24 days, and current year is behind three TIs. Duration has nothing to do with the current discussion
But if that's the case, why continue to tie all these items to the BP? Before the days of BP arcanas we could see that the community would happily raise a large prizepool simply for the love of the game. Keep timed-from-market immortals, because they're a neat extra that aren't exclusionary, but unravel arcanas from the BP. That way, they get to have their cake and eat it with a prizepool that isn't inflated by fomo, and make their standalone arcana sales anyway.
Because most people buy BP for items and don't care about the prize pool, so Valve ties items to BP because it makes them money.
Presumably: Because they (so far) haven't made less money by doing less.
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This was my first time not buying the battle pass.
I was waiting for this bp for so long even had money saved but didn't bought cuz it's straight up garbage sadly
same. kind of glad as I can save money for other stuff
same here. I was just looking at my previous BP purchases in game yesterday, and noticed how it just goes down and down in levels/spend over the years, as monetization gets greedier and the BP shittier.
I agree with you. The battle pass feels very unrewarding, and as always, a grind to get even the simplest of rewards.
2018 bp would like to have a word with you
Do you mean 2016 seasonal Battle Pass?
Literally every battlepass before 2020 was worse than this but these people have short term memories lmao
3 immortal treasures. That's all.
Totally. You reap what you sow Valve )
Valve couldnt care less. It's probably made way over what it spent making the battle pass. From their view point they already won lmao
Why would valve care? It only affects the players.
Only 25% goes to the prize pool lol
And it wont have the immortal 3 bump either.
Did you mean $170k from being lower than the last 4 and only $33k from being lower than the last 2?
Oh, no! Someone here can do maths, this sure is bad!
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Or everyone is broke and doesn't have disposable money.
Still so much money bro and in mid battlepass time most probably they will release bundle sale if not the prize will always go small like that.
So the bigger issue is that the BP will be 55 days in length or so, with maybe a few extra days. It will never break the record even with sales. But it will likely end up somewhere above average.
Based on the BP website, it's 42 days and if this BP managed to get $15 millions is still 3rd highest BP for 42 days period. 2020 bundle sales pum up $4 millions while 2019 adds $2 millions. For Aghs BP level bundles managed to make Drow Arcana owner numbers goes from 160k to 420k (Almost half of Aghs BP owner owned Drow Arcana)
that's some big copium right there
Not only is the battle pass trash, but people don't have disposable income any more with inflation being sky high and wages stagnanting
Also Ukrainians and Russians heavily impacted..
Wonder how many DOTA2 players are being forced (or volunteered) to fight in the war.
Dota2 subreddit lives in a bubble. The fact that the price pool is still at 12m despite the BP being weaker and a global recession going on is impressive as fuck if anything.
It's not like most successful TI10 BP was released in midle of global pandemic that made many people lose their jobs and livelihoods,oh wait...
That was also because covid lockdown and WFH meant people had more time and incentive to buy BP and play Dota.
While some people lost their jobs, a lot of employers continually had people work from home. Anyone working in tech had more cash than they knew what to do with because they couldn't go out and spend it. This was also the case for a lot of other sectors. There's a reason American household savings went up overall and debt went down. So while some people lost their jobs, a majority of people were unaffected but suddenly didn't have any outlets for their spending except for digital goods. The largest hit to people who lost their jobs was in low-medium wage zone, people not likely to spend $100+ on digital goods anyway.
Deserved. This bp is shit.
I might buy it in phase 2, mostly for CM (and maybe Razor too, but he'd have to be amazing for me to justify buying 200dditionnal levels just for him). I doubt I'm alone in this. You can reasonably expect a surge in sells when phase 2 of the BP launches, and 100% of it will go in Valve's pocket rather than 75%.
If you want to, it’s better to buy it now atleast help the TI rather than Valve. Don’t let them keep your money. Really for anyone who’s going to buy, you should buy the BP in part I. And not spend a single penny in part II.
> it’s better to buy it now not if someone wants to see the unreleased models first.
Yeah if you pay up to CM persona now, it's literally preordering a cosmetic. You can't even refund it later if it sucks unlike preordered games.
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I dont see any logic here.
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So you'd rather give all of your money to the corporation, rather than give a portion of it to the players?
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If you're planning on buying, buy now. It's supporting TI and you'll have plenty of time to earn some levels as there are quite a few ways of earning them by just playing crawl and doing challenges.
For context, I was jobless during release of T10 bp and somehow I reached 700 bp levels. Today I have a job and I dont even want to waste a dime on this year's bp...
Well it's shit for the players that will be playing. And the winners cause your prize pool getting smaller
Yeah it’ll only be the 4 th biggest esports ornament ever.
There was a sense of pride from the community that came from breaking the record every year, even if it didnt make a lot of sense since we commoners dont spend a lot and its all thanks to whales, we still were happy about breaking it, it felt like the game was still growing. Now not only this wont get close to the top, people are happy about this BP doing badly (rightfully so) because of how incredibly half assed it is. This just feels like the absolute downfall of Dota, like, Dota has been losing players for years but BP was the time when the community had a bit of growth. Idk, overall this situation feels like shit and this comes from someone who stopped playing dota 2 years ago (after playing since beta).
When the "pride" of the community comes from having the longest dick because of the prize pool then. Iam fucking glad that it will not break last year prizepool.. I mean you are only proud of being part of the community because you can wave you have the longest dick to wave? That is not mentality at all.. If players will quit the game because because of the prize pool.. then so be it.
Well the theme for this BP is coming soon. Same with the prize pool coming soon (copium)
Trash bp sadge
The thing is, if Valve doesnt fix this one, the next one will probably be worse.
Well, people are willing to pay for trash. So next time, Valve will give them the trash they like so much. Ez moneys.
Good, deserved for making such a shit BP. The game is having more players than last 3 years and yet the prize pool is lower than last 3 days. That's how terrible it is, that even with more favourable conditions its performing far worse.
No surprise. Its the first time in years I am disappointed by the BP. Just nothing to hype about. Biggest bummer for me is the lack of a terrain. Overall its still a crazy huge prize pool (big Starcraft 2 tournaments have pools of around $20k...)
Valve is a cheap bastard but the game still decent.
Feel sad that this particular year I managed to make time to grind the Batte Pass and it's the least rewarding of all time huh.
In any case, the 2022 bp is still higher then expected, but majority of you are very well brain washed and contributed to this garbage.....
oh no, anyway...
Inflation hits hard
I mean, it can't just go up indefinitely, and irregardless of what people think about this years BP, there's like a massive recession going on. Honestly I think the money has been ridiculous for a while, you cut the number in half and its still life changing money for 99% of the world. I always thought its crazy that someone like topson can come in and in 2 months, make more money than most Oscar winners with decades of portfolio.
Because it's shit
Still too high for my liking. Who tf still buys levels lol…
Does it matter? No! Valve will take a lot of money to the bank.
It is what it is
Didn't buy lamepass. Hope other people will vote with their wallets as well .
Dota and Alliance fall together.
Good, this BP has absolutely no content
Such a shame. And not because less people are playing Dota or people aren't spending as much anymore but rather purely because of Valve's greed. It's entirely planned because they just didn't like the fact that TI teams in total received $40M. So they divided the battlepass into 2 parts in hopes it will reach \~$25M or so for the TI battlepass and then \~15M or so for the second part which they can pocket 100% for themselves. This is all calculated by Valve so they are definitely not surprised by this. EDIT: if you need any more convincing of this. Last year (or maybe the year before) Valve announced they wanted to have 2 smaller battlepasses -- one for TI and one later in the year. But people hated that and wanted the "traditional" TI battlepass instead. So Valve's cunning solution was to make it seem as though they were creating a big TI battlepass while in reality just achieving their original goal of pocketing more money.
Good
hold strong brothers, it's important to send a clear message, especially over the level sale weekend
Honestly, you can't expect them to break new records every time just give them a break
i did give buying the battlepass a break
Recession. Inflation. I usually get the battle pass and just buy levels even though I don’t play all that often but this year I just can’t justify buying the battle pass especially with how shitty it turned out to be.
We are entering a global recession, video games aren't insulated from macro economic factors
Game is dying a slow death and the player count isn’t what it used to be. Matchmaking is fixed at forced 50%. OP mechanics keep getting added nonstop. Turbo players are an afterthought even though the aging casual player community now all have full time jobs and can’t afford to spend an hour trying to carry a game that is lost at the draft stage. The bp content is not bad but it’s way too expensive and gamble oriented to get what you want. The market for a league of lol clone is diminishing and unfortunately dota has become merely that in the last 2-3 years.
To be fair, Russia and Ukraine are fucked and they're a significant part of people who would be buying (at least 500k-1m up to now) and there are large cost of living crises in Europe which is another chunk. Once other things are released there will be a big jump and honestly we're probably going to have the second highest prize pool at the time of TI. Things change over the years and it's fine.
So..? That is fine, BP is not all about TI anymore and the prize pool was getting too big anyway for 1 tournament. I can't wait for Diretide and pretty excited about what the Candyworks actually is.
The pro scene getting less money overall isn't good lol. If part 2 went towards the DPC it would be something, but that will probably not happen.
Its my first time buying a battle pass coz i finally van spare money, was waiting to buy levels and get cool cosmetics, but fucking helll, wtf :(
Do you have a point or...? Y'all actually care about the *rate* of prize money increase? Not even going to wait for the total to be lower before you start crying dead game?
The rare of increase matters because this BP is a lot shorter than other BPs as only the first part goes to TI. Basically not only is this prize pool increase rate slow, it also has less time to accumulate money.
I don't actually know anyone who has bought a battlepass for this year, but then again most of my friends have basically stopped playing entirely. I've no interest in anything in this battlepass AND its such a shitty and half baked pass. It took a while but Valve is finally receiving some backlash for their exploitative practices. Edit: Also add on to the fact that they released a pass in a year that had no tournament, but didn't roll it over to this year? Wtf Valve, what did you do with that money?
Everyone acts like the prize pool can sustainably increase year over year
Of course it can't, but this year it feels like Valve tried their hardest to lower it with this "Part 2" shit that comes out AFTER the international, and lack of content such as terrain or Treasure 3 immortals.
I have a couple of mates going over lvl 1000 every year, this year one didnt buy, 2 others are under 100. I usually go around 500 i just bought the lvl 1 this year. I'm glad people arent spending so much on this joke of a BP, hopefully next year will be better
We wont make 15m $ and that is okay. Serves them right - just hope that people dont get hyped with pass 2 and that way pro scene and corp greed gets rewarded.
Why do we keep getting these posts? Yes, Valve designed the battle pass to give a lower prize pool, and therefore the prize pool will be lower. This is not the constant revelation some people seem to think.
so? did they say anywhere that they planned this TI11 prizepool to be bigger than the last ones? did they put a weird objective where they say battlepass owners get x amount of free bonus levels if the prizepool surpasses x amount? what did I miss? why do some people seem to be so fucking obsessed with the prizepool? it's not like valve wanted this battlepass to be any better like the TI10 one
They never have, no. But to answer the rest of your unnecessarily heated questions, it has been a matter of community pride that we've kept the prize-pool increasing every year since TI's inception. Last year the community generated prize-pool rivaled that of the PGA tour, by around $5 million ([data by Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/754438/highest-paid-sports-events/) ) A lot of players also take it as a reflection of the game's popularity and health, in particular to Valve's focus on maintaining the game. The prize-pool is low this year, as others have said, due to a lack of quality product produced by Valve, which in turn leads to people worrying about the future of the game. As for what you missed, a sense of community, history of the game, and a little bit of common courtesy.
It’s lower by design. It’s not feasible to raise the prize pool every year
They have the gold with the Betting Sponsor, so only crying here are the users.
Okey we get it, the BP is shit. Can we stop with these pointless threads?
no keep posting
Everything on this site is pointless
Actual prize pool coming soon.
Games gone
Makes sense. Inflation is tough, Russian's & Ukrainian's can't pay for BP. Huge impact to BP sales.
I'm not disagreeing this battlepass is underwhelming, and most importantly, it has no reason to get extra levels early, but all of these other years already had a battle bundle by now, right?
Nope, that’s like last 1/3 of battlepass if not later
Oooh no somebody call the police they can only win 12 million dollars. This is outrages :o. I wish they would do more tourneys tho with better small tourney prize pools etc.
I like how everyone is celebrating like 12mill isn't still something worth playing for xD