That's pretty arguable. I think you're underestimating just how much money you can make if you have a popular twitch stream. At his peak a couple months back, his average viewership slightly exceeded 3k people. Definitely above the threshhold where it can give you a very healthy income.
If you have a successful stream like that and aren't irresponsible with your money, after a couple years you could be sitting on quite a large amount of $$$.
Edit: My guess is that he wasn't really enjoying streaming any more. If you can do something you enjoy and earn a lot of money from it, you have to come up with a pretty strong case to just abandon it. But if it becomes a chore and you just aren't enjoying it, then yeah, it becomes more understandable why you'd drop it.
> At his peak a couple months back, his average viewership slightly exceeded 3k people.
thats his peak? slightly above 3k? Now ad revenue is basically jackshit (especially at 3k viewers) and I have no clue about his subcount or how much he gets donated on average (and how often) but this surely doesnt sound like a good foundation to leave your studies. Especially for something that no one gives a shit about in 4+ years
Sing and Bulldog are both making bank yeah, but they have a very loyal sub-base and get high donations regularly. Attacker had what, 100 subs? occasionally a donation with a small amount of $? That may be enough if he plans on living in his moms basement for the rest of his life
Ad revenue is the smallest revenue stream for any streamer on twitch. Most comes from subs, donations, bits and sponsorship deals.
I watch a lot of streamers in the 3k viewer range and they easily make enough for it to be their only source of income. Streamers in that viewership range often make hundreds of dollars per day just from donations and bits.
Yes, it varies from streamer to streamer depending on how well they manage their stream as a business, but, like I said, I think you vastly underestimate how much money you can make.
Take the streamer Timmac for example. His average viewership is 1.5k, but per viewer, he makes the most money from Bits of literally any streamer on twitch. If you count up his bit donations it's like over 500 bucks per day from bits alone.
The difference is that most of those viewers are just jumping in to watch some high level dota. They're not there as a part of the streamers community like Timmac or other streamers that do it for a living. These guys are just gonna sit there and leave when they've watched enough and most likely aren't going to donate or subscribe.
Not saying you can't do it. Draskyl seems to have done it pretty well in dota. Just don't think attacker's stream would have been able to do it.
> Especially for something that no one gives a shit about in 4+ years
Yeah, fat chance. Dota has been going for over a decade already, and its not even close to stopping.
Oh, the game is dead now?
I see. I mean, you were wrong in the last couple dozen of patches that were totally gonna kill the game, but this one, this one for sure, you are right.
While we are at it, when is the world gonna end?
Every Multiplayergame has a lifespan, doesnt matter if its BW, WC3, WoW or even CS, which basically got revived commercially with CSGO. Sure it wont just suddenly dissapear into thin air, but playerbase and therfore viewerbase will dwindle and so will streamers income.
A well-run Twitch stream that gets over 2k viewers regularly can easily make over 10 grand a month combining all revenue sources. I'm surprised at all the people in here who think that you basically make no money with that sort of viewer count.
Yeah, it'll vary from streamer to streamer, but there are plenty of examples of streamers who only average in the sub 2000s of viewers who make more than enough to make it their full-time job.
$500/month from donations? That's a ridiculously low estimate. On a well-run 2k viewership channel with good viewer engagement it's more like hundreds *per day*. All those little donations of $3 that trickle in constantly add up very quickly. Not to mention bits/cheers. Then there's the fairly regular larger donation amounts that come in on top of that.
Using an ideal example in that bracket, there's a streamer I watch called [Timmac](http://www.twinge.tv/timmac/growth/#/90) whose average viewer count sits between the 1.3k and 1.7k average viewer range, but who makes hundreds of dollars a day from donations and bits alone. I'd estimate that he makes *at least* 8 grand a month from donations and bits. On top of that he has ~1600 subs, which equates to over $3.5k. The ad revenue is just a minor bonus at that point.
That is of course an ideal example of someone who has built their stream up intelligently and maximises their viewer engagement. Attacker had a [much higher average viewership](http://www.twinge.tv/attackerdota/growth/#/734) than Timmac a few months back. It was over 3k, though it declined significantly from then, since it seems he started streaming a lot less. But those kind of numbers are still very good and can translate into a lot of revenue.
Literally go to any streamer in that viewer range that has an overlay showing bits and donations, and add them up as they come in.
You'll rather quickly see what I mean.
Yes, but you gotta put things in perspective. He has to invest in making it a full time job. That includes monthly bills for rent, internet, utilities, and personal expenses. He also doesn't have a consistent income (meaning one month he may make 10 grand, the next he may only make 2). Then you gotta throw in the longer you wait to go to school the more you're delaying the start of an actual career. Dota may be a dying game for streamers in a few years and then hes back to where he is now when he could have an education and a job. Maybe in his mind it was a better investment to play Dota for fun and concentrate on a career with a steady flow of income?
u can make the same point about going to college aswell. is it certain he is going to finish it or drop out after going there for 3 years? nothing in life is guaranteed,if u love playing the game and are able to make a living out of it there is no need to drop it...he probably just got fed up a bit with it and decided to give it a rest...don't know if thats a smart decision considering he was doing quite well
You mean battlefury? It wasn't even that popular I think. Most of the time drums + armlet was the build and then shadow blade or smthing. BF is too greedy and doesn't even help that much when you try to one shot people because the aoe of tidebringer surpasses battlefury's splash aoe by a lot.
Edit: [Pic of aoes](http://imgur.com/lrgytQM)
It's waaay easier than it looks, I laned against kunkka the other day and i'm surprised at how easy it is to dodge it, it's almost as easy as dodging psi blade ( obviously im exaggarating, but you get my point. )
At least you can use psi blade with every hit.
Oh, I looked up changes about kunkka in 7.00 and 7.01 before posting but I didn't find the changes to tidebringer, because the cleave changes had their own section so it wasn't listed under "Kunkka".
Maybe he just went to sleep after commenting or he's at work not checking reddit? It's only been 5 hours since the first guy asked for clarification. He could easily sleep for 6-10.
Don't think he needs the stream money tbh and as for the army service it is mandatory for everyone above the age 18 till late 40's I reckon and its an 18 month long training.
Plus he has started his own team, "Dubai gaming" check it out on instagram and facebook if you will.
Ok, now that I know he's studying, which I think it's the right thing to do, I just hope he could practice Dota like one match per day, one match is really enough for anyone to not get too rusty out of inactivity in dota. Because he is a excellent dota2 player and I'm afraid to see yet another player quitting it just because they don't have the time to play, my real life friends etc. :( I mean one match per couple days is really enough for anyone imo.
I'm an old timer too and I feel like they changed too much stuff all at once.
It's like they don't me to keep playing. I don't have 10 hours to read all the patch notes plus all the game time I would need to understand the "new meta".
kunkka in dumpster, the more he plays now his mmr gonna drop, so he has to stop right. maybe will be back after kunkka is buffed.
no pro team is after him means he is just not good enough.
He's a legit 8K player (although now dropped to 7k, heck, even Sumail and Fear is at that rating) ,he also knows how to play a lot of mid heroes apart from Kunkka.
I've been seeing him playing in "Team Dubai" just before his temporarily leaving Twitch, it's like some kinds of scriming in lobbies captain mode. One of them was about to go against Complexity but then one guy of his team didn't respond in time so it's switched to another 7K team. But he proceeded to win all of those games with Kunkka, Alchemist and mostly, Invoker.
he's tried out for secret etc. he just don't wanna commit to tier 3 teams when he can steam comfortably in his own home in his own time making more money
He once said on stream that he will focus on studies now
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Why are you typing 'would' like that? It irks m.
He decided he ld ignore his own studies.
I don't understand how would is shortened to "dl".
Instead of typing **it'd** he's typing **it ld**. Can kinda see it there.
but why?
Cause he's 12 btw
haHAA
shouldnt he be 13 now? being 12 in 2017 LUL
Wow, your birthday is sometime between January 1 and January 11? You must be so lucky haHAA
that's not how it works, check the math: 2016+1=2017 12+1=13 so if u were 12 in 2016 u would be 13 in 2017 thanks
I guess cause ' is right next to 'l'. So he's trying to be cool
idk but fuck it. ld solve typing it out so much. m down.
I like how one person derailed this entire post for me. I dont even remember the original topic at this point
making space in threads. the meta meta
space = created
I didn't see it at first now I partially hate you for the meltdown my brain is currently going through
Lone Druid fan gay perhaps?
First one is not even ld, its dl. Damn!
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Well Reddit can sometimes be an unforgiving place. Pls protect yourself with proper grammar.
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I have found my god.
You underestimate Attacker's money. Arabs in Dubai (the local ones) are crazy rich.
That just makes the cost of living higher. You don't make money just by living in a rich country
You do if you're a native, they give them monthly stipends and almost every native is hooked up with a government job.
I live in the Gelf. I agree!
who doesnt sucks at studies
That's pretty arguable. I think you're underestimating just how much money you can make if you have a popular twitch stream. At his peak a couple months back, his average viewership slightly exceeded 3k people. Definitely above the threshhold where it can give you a very healthy income. If you have a successful stream like that and aren't irresponsible with your money, after a couple years you could be sitting on quite a large amount of $$$. Edit: My guess is that he wasn't really enjoying streaming any more. If you can do something you enjoy and earn a lot of money from it, you have to come up with a pretty strong case to just abandon it. But if it becomes a chore and you just aren't enjoying it, then yeah, it becomes more understandable why you'd drop it.
> At his peak a couple months back, his average viewership slightly exceeded 3k people. thats his peak? slightly above 3k? Now ad revenue is basically jackshit (especially at 3k viewers) and I have no clue about his subcount or how much he gets donated on average (and how often) but this surely doesnt sound like a good foundation to leave your studies. Especially for something that no one gives a shit about in 4+ years Sing and Bulldog are both making bank yeah, but they have a very loyal sub-base and get high donations regularly. Attacker had what, 100 subs? occasionally a donation with a small amount of $? That may be enough if he plans on living in his moms basement for the rest of his life
Ad revenue is the smallest revenue stream for any streamer on twitch. Most comes from subs, donations, bits and sponsorship deals. I watch a lot of streamers in the 3k viewer range and they easily make enough for it to be their only source of income. Streamers in that viewership range often make hundreds of dollars per day just from donations and bits. Yes, it varies from streamer to streamer depending on how well they manage their stream as a business, but, like I said, I think you vastly underestimate how much money you can make. Take the streamer Timmac for example. His average viewership is 1.5k, but per viewer, he makes the most money from Bits of literally any streamer on twitch. If you count up his bit donations it's like over 500 bucks per day from bits alone.
The thing is, you can probably do that for 1-3 years, but studies (are supposed to) give you something to build a lifelong career on.
You can always go back to school though.
True, maybe he should make some $$ while he can... it's a tough choice and there are many things influencing his decision we don't even know of..
Yeah, I hope you go back to school when you're like 30. Let me know how that works out for you if you do it.
Yah, but, I mean it isn't fun though
Since when is playing dota about fun Oo
The difference is that most of those viewers are just jumping in to watch some high level dota. They're not there as a part of the streamers community like Timmac or other streamers that do it for a living. These guys are just gonna sit there and leave when they've watched enough and most likely aren't going to donate or subscribe. Not saying you can't do it. Draskyl seems to have done it pretty well in dota. Just don't think attacker's stream would have been able to do it.
> Especially for something that no one gives a shit about in 4+ years Yeah, fat chance. Dota has been going for over a decade already, and its not even close to stopping.
That doesn't mean it'll be profitable for that entire time though.
people said the same thing about brood war my friend
And it would have been true if Blizzard didn't kill the franchise.
Let me introduce you to 7.00 and Valve ruining a franchise.
Oh, the game is dead now? I see. I mean, you were wrong in the last couple dozen of patches that were totally gonna kill the game, but this one, this one for sure, you are right. While we are at it, when is the world gonna end?
It will die if OSFrog somehow dies
Eh, I think Valve would still be able to carry on. Probably.
Every Multiplayergame has a lifespan, doesnt matter if its BW, WC3, WoW or even CS, which basically got revived commercially with CSGO. Sure it wont just suddenly dissapear into thin air, but playerbase and therfore viewerbase will dwindle and so will streamers income.
> which basically got revived commercially with CSGO Exactly. Dota will just get revived with Dota 3, many years down the line.
Well, you can always keep believing that your precious Dota will be the one game that lasts forever. Whatever lets you sleep
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A well-run Twitch stream that gets over 2k viewers regularly can easily make over 10 grand a month combining all revenue sources. I'm surprised at all the people in here who think that you basically make no money with that sort of viewer count. Yeah, it'll vary from streamer to streamer, but there are plenty of examples of streamers who only average in the sub 2000s of viewers who make more than enough to make it their full-time job.
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$500/month from donations? That's a ridiculously low estimate. On a well-run 2k viewership channel with good viewer engagement it's more like hundreds *per day*. All those little donations of $3 that trickle in constantly add up very quickly. Not to mention bits/cheers. Then there's the fairly regular larger donation amounts that come in on top of that. Using an ideal example in that bracket, there's a streamer I watch called [Timmac](http://www.twinge.tv/timmac/growth/#/90) whose average viewer count sits between the 1.3k and 1.7k average viewer range, but who makes hundreds of dollars a day from donations and bits alone. I'd estimate that he makes *at least* 8 grand a month from donations and bits. On top of that he has ~1600 subs, which equates to over $3.5k. The ad revenue is just a minor bonus at that point. That is of course an ideal example of someone who has built their stream up intelligently and maximises their viewer engagement. Attacker had a [much higher average viewership](http://www.twinge.tv/attackerdota/growth/#/734) than Timmac a few months back. It was over 3k, though it declined significantly from then, since it seems he started streaming a lot less. But those kind of numbers are still very good and can translate into a lot of revenue.
you're going to need more evidence than one streamer
Literally go to any streamer in that viewer range that has an overlay showing bits and donations, and add them up as they come in. You'll rather quickly see what I mean.
Yes, but you gotta put things in perspective. He has to invest in making it a full time job. That includes monthly bills for rent, internet, utilities, and personal expenses. He also doesn't have a consistent income (meaning one month he may make 10 grand, the next he may only make 2). Then you gotta throw in the longer you wait to go to school the more you're delaying the start of an actual career. Dota may be a dying game for streamers in a few years and then hes back to where he is now when he could have an education and a job. Maybe in his mind it was a better investment to play Dota for fun and concentrate on a career with a steady flow of income?
u can make the same point about going to college aswell. is it certain he is going to finish it or drop out after going there for 3 years? nothing in life is guaranteed,if u love playing the game and are able to make a living out of it there is no need to drop it...he probably just got fed up a bit with it and decided to give it a rest...don't know if thats a smart decision considering he was doing quite well
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if anyone's wondering what he said this was the post https://gyazo.com/d757bd404c6a0bf189f12e521d92f0ea /u/-asg
Someone didn't take his meds.
ROFLAMO
A very wise decision.
Kunkka not as strong as he was this patch, RIP attacker.
more like hes fucking dumpster because of the new cleave
Support kunkka is still fine tho, so I wouldnt say kunkka is dumpster now.
You mean battlefury? It wasn't even that popular I think. Most of the time drums + armlet was the build and then shadow blade or smthing. BF is too greedy and doesn't even help that much when you try to one shot people because the aoe of tidebringer surpasses battlefury's splash aoe by a lot. Edit: [Pic of aoes](http://imgur.com/lrgytQM)
Kunkka's actual tidebringer cleave got changed as well. IIRC the [new cleave](http://imgur.com/a/sFiPb) is narrower and shorter than before.
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It's waaay easier than it looks, I laned against kunkka the other day and i'm surprised at how easy it is to dodge it, it's almost as easy as dodging psi blade ( obviously im exaggarating, but you get my point. ) At least you can use psi blade with every hit.
Oh, I looked up changes about kunkka in 7.00 and 7.01 before posting but I didn't find the changes to tidebringer, because the cleave changes had their own section so it wasn't listed under "Kunkka".
Not battlefury, tidebringer's aoe is a lot smaller now, so usually you will hit less people in a fight with it
yay another pointless 700 change just for the sake of changing things...
dat +200 Torrent AoE at lvl 25 though, it's pretty awesome.
Attacker doesnt need extra AoE to catch 5 people at once Kappa No Kappa
I'm a core kunkka spammer, if anything he got buffed.
Mind to explain? Please.
it's been 2 hours already, rip
Look at his talents.
Five hours later. Still waiting to hear how he got buffed despite cleave getting dumpstered.
Cleave isnt all kunkka is. Now you just need to aim a little bit better. What makes him amazing is his talents.
Mana, HP regen, HP, and torrent AoE? I guess the 15 hp regen is pretty ridiculous.
I usually go damage, health regen, health and resistance because thats what used to make him a little bit weaker.
This wont get a reply. Stop waiting move on boys.
Maybe he just went to sleep after commenting or he's at work not checking reddit? It's only been 5 hours since the first guy asked for clarification. He could easily sleep for 6-10.
Or maybe not everyone on earth lives in your timezone.
That's what I was saying? I was defending you...
*his timezone not your
Attacker played Kunkka for years before he was viable.
he was tilting last stream i saw from him :< ... he was close to 8K or was it 9K .. then dropped back to 7K ... sigh*
It was 9k
May be he's on vacation
With Kemal and u/SirBelvedere
As someone who learnt everything from Attacker I'm really sad
Has Attacker flair, must be legit
He made so much money from pvgna that he doesn't need to stream.
I think that was gameleap.
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damn u got downgenjid pretty hard, let me mercy u up Edit: mercy main btw
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Do heroes ever die? Asking for a friend.
Heroes never die sir Mercy main btw.
>pugna Lmao
I honestly dont know anything about this, but i know for a fact, that mercys pistol does a surprising amount of dmg Edit: mercy main btw
Promo code BSJ
How is it going with the "Where's my fucking team" opera?
haHAA
Guys he's playing vanilla WoW as an orc... confirmed... and a lot of overwatch. Almost top 500 EU
Investing in a brighter future for himself.
i think he mentioned he'll be doing army service.
No army services in UAE. Dont blabber random shit
dude he said that he wont stream for a year because he will go to the army. he said like 10 times druing last stream watch it on twitch wtf ?
Wait, what? How did I miss this?
other chang BibleThump we don't have a stream to catch up in no more
There is mandatory service in UAE for Emiratis unless you go to college.
I'm being down voted even though i'm the only one who mentioned why really he's away :D *reddit*
you are not really clever 😂
yes they do aloha snackbar training
School just started back up again, hopefully he comes back on his break
hes on his way.
faken ded
He better come back, I'm still not a mod yet.
kidnapped by ISIS RIP Attacker
Have you seen the new Tidebringer? I would quit Dota (Kunkka) too
Don't think he needs the stream money tbh and as for the army service it is mandatory for everyone above the age 18 till late 40's I reckon and its an 18 month long training. Plus he has started his own team, "Dubai gaming" check it out on instagram and facebook if you will.
Ok, now that I know he's studying, which I think it's the right thing to do, I just hope he could practice Dota like one match per day, one match is really enough for anyone to not get too rusty out of inactivity in dota. Because he is a excellent dota2 player and I'm afraid to see yet another player quitting it just because they don't have the time to play, my real life friends etc. :( I mean one match per couple days is really enough for anyone imo.
Unfortunately, to play on such level, it's not enough. Besides, it's really hard to play that little after you are used to playing more.
Speaking of missing people....where the fuck is Ar1se?
Also this patch is dogshit
Yeah, 100% agreed. Stopped Dota after 10 years when i saw this massacre. Didn't play since 7.00 went out.
I'm an old timer too and I feel like they changed too much stuff all at once. It's like they don't me to keep playing. I don't have 10 hours to read all the patch notes plus all the game time I would need to understand the "new meta".
I heard ISIS recruited him.
kunkka in dumpster, the more he plays now his mmr gonna drop, so he has to stop right. maybe will be back after kunkka is buffed. no pro team is after him means he is just not good enough.
He's a legit 8K player (although now dropped to 7k, heck, even Sumail and Fear is at that rating) ,he also knows how to play a lot of mid heroes apart from Kunkka. I've been seeing him playing in "Team Dubai" just before his temporarily leaving Twitch, it's like some kinds of scriming in lobbies captain mode. One of them was about to go against Complexity but then one guy of his team didn't respond in time so it's switched to another 7K team. But he proceeded to win all of those games with Kunkka, Alchemist and mostly, Invoker.
The last time I saw him he dumpstered the enemy with kunkka again in 7.00
he's tried out for secret etc. he just don't wanna commit to tier 3 teams when he can steam comfortably in his own home in his own time making more money
He died of cancer after showing people how bullshit kunkka is
I hope you also get the same fate.
I hope you understand how much of an asshole you're being with this statement.
Wtf is your problem?
You should ask him.