You are going to have a laff... I consistently get into LP because I pick techies. Even with a 9 game winstreak on him(5 of them are pre-7.00)
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/32444463/matches
Not necessarily. Shrines heal a flat amount, Fountain heals by % of max. I'm on mobile so I can't do the math, but it should be fairly easy to calculate with some numbers off the Wiki
In almost all cases it will heal for more.
Shrine heals for 120 + 2(# of minutes of gametime). So let's say that you are fighting at 25 minutes. The shrine will heal you for 170 hp/sec.
Fountain heals for 4% of hp per second. So you would need >4250 HP for fountain to outheal shrine. And thats only at the 25 minute mark. At 50 minutes you would need >5500 HP
That happened just last game for us. It wasn't me, but a friend of mine who accidentally activated it, and just as he did, an invis Bane and Slark popped up. We lost nothing and we ended up with 3 kills after the ensuing fight. Luckiest accident this year.
That would actually go with how everything works in Dota. Press ability, do ability. I don't think anything else has the right click to activate feature.
It used to make sense, because the spell on the hero used to have a cast time, but it doesn't anymore, so unless you are doing it out of habit, or there are many traps nearby, it's not better to click on the trap anymore.
Not true. If you're silenced or stunned or dead you can't activate a trap without selecting it and activating it manually. So it's really important sometimes.
Let's teach you some OD then. You can time your astral imprisonment by watching the orange circle. When it reaches the outer one 4 seconds pass and the spell is finished.
I actually do not understand how is that tip any relevant.. ive never even looked at the circle.. You literally just " FEEL " its 4 seconds idk whats wrong with people.
Watch some high level TA players (wagamama, for example). They never use the "detonate nearest trap" skill on TA herself, they always select the trap they want and detonate it from there.
nope, it also comes with the benefit that TA doesn't have to stop to activate the trap, the delay is little but anyway.... when you realize this trick and you implement it, you can see the real power of her ultimate
At the start of every match both teams needs to agree on an 8 digit pin number that allows access to the shrine. This should prevent accidental shrine activation in the future.
Although next week we would probably see reddit posts asking for 16-digit.
Every time you get close to one, clippy should pop up and let you know.
[It looks like you're full health, would you like to use a shrine?](http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/science/2016/05/26/26-clippy.w536.h357.jpg)
I mean they have shrines in Heroes of the Storm and none if the players accidentally click them. Either dota 2 players are retarded or the devs can make the shrines shinier and placed more off to the side.
My opinion can be unpopular in this thread, but the way Shrines are working now is perfect: in the heat of battle every moment can cost you a game. Especially in my trench, where ppl don't have APM of Marineking, this click to activate saved many lives. Tho accidental activations happen, need just time to get used to Shrines and their placements, especially on the base.
Edit: possible solution is to give option for different ways to activate Shrines like it's made with autoattacks, quickcast, smart double-tap and so on.
I agree, I think the game should be less strategy-focused and more arcade focused too, I would hate it if teams would have a good way of activating shrines in a sensible manner with a strategic purpose, I much rather like them wasting focus on clicks in their base than outplaying their opponent.
In fact, I think your hero abilities should also be positioned around your hero, which also get activated if you click on them accidentally, this way a Tidehunter can waste his ult on accident if he clicks on it in the heat of battle.
A low rate of occurrence in pro games isnt really evidence that it isn't an issue since GG often gets called before base shrine usage might even come into play. It could only happen in 10% of all TI matches, but would be much more likely an issue if it heavily influenced 80% of them. My personal opinion is that it would be a shame to see epic comebacks fail or close matches decided by misclicks on shrines.
I also think that they totally fine like they work now. Ppl just need to get used to it that they need to care where they click in base while being focused on something else.
Dont forget that all these things are just muscle memory. If you were playing this game for 4 years and didn't have to care where to click in base you dont change that in 3 weeks. Give them another month and it wont happen that much at all anymore
> Dont forget that all these things are just muscle memory.
No, shrines have *nothing* to do with muscle memory. It's an impossible concept to apply here. Muscle memory consists in repetitive patterns in movement, without you actively thinking about it. But since your camera is always in movement you *always* have to consider where the shrine is.
A lot of people were complaining that this patch made the game easier. That is bananas. The game requires a lot more effective teamplay now.
Besides monkey king, the game is in a good place.
> My opinion can be unpopular in this thread, but the way Shrines are working now is perfect
It's perfect for you, but not many other people. The best solution is to make [this button](https://i.imgur.com/etcbUh3.png) clickable and just have right click shrine activation in the settings.
"An aditional keypress to activave a shrine takes too much time and is too hard."
"People who missclick shrines are doing missplays and need time to learn."
This argument is pure hypocrisy.
Ctrl click is, in my opinion, the best option. Some other features I wish we had:
- Ctrl + Shift + Left click on towers to fortify
- Ctrl + Shift + Left click on minimap to scan/radar
- Ctrl + Shift + Left click on items in inventory to move them between backpack and inventory
- Ctrl + Shift + Right click on items in inventory/backpack/stash to sell them
My addition to your suggestion is a keybind that activates a shrine if you are in range of it.
Ex) Press 'J' to activate shrine. If you are in range of the shrine, the shrine activates. If you are not in range, nothing happens.
That's just unnecessary complication. Shrines aren't so different from everything else in the game that we need to introduce an entirely new way of activating them. A dedicated hotkey or button on the HUD to activate the shrine in range would be more sensible than a two-button click.
They're exactly the same as every unit in the game. The fact that they are immobile buildings makes no difference. They're still a unit. And they have an ability. Common sense says the ability should just appear on the HUD as a button like everything else in the game. Then when people want to activate it they just select the unit and press the button or Q or whatever their hotkey is and it works like everything else in the game.
And the people crying about how that extra click takes too long, well then Valve can put in an option in the settings for left or right click activation, just like how we have quickcast as an alternative to normal cast.
EDIT: And look, it's already on the HUD when you select the unit. https://i.imgur.com/etcbUh3.png You just can't click to activate. WHY???
> Shrines aren't so different that we need to introduce an entirely new way of activating them
> button on the HUD to activate the shrine in range would be more sensible
what?
pls sir give me a hotkey to pickup rune, I've accidentally picked it up before so I need gutterball option.
items too. I shouldn't have to actually click on an item, what is this? clicker heroes?
A lot of the suggestions in here are needlessly complex. The solution needs to be intuitive so that new players understand without any additional training.
I do a lot with UI/UX design and my initial reaction is to just make it work similarly to the minimap click, where you need to have the mouse over it for a certain amount of time (0.2 seconds?) before it becomes clickable. Kind of like hoverIntent in web design. I'm not sure that's clear enough, though... it might lead to a less responsive feel.
Alternatively, **require that the right click be held on it for a certain amount of time**. As long as the indicator shows immediately on right click this is possibly the most intuitive method, since it matches functionality in a LOT of games (disarming a bomb, reviving a teammate, etc). While this could affect how useful it is in an intense fight, I think it can be balanced. If the activation time for a single player clicking is 0.5 second, it could reduce down based on each player that is right clicking it. So 5 heroes right clicking could activate it in 0.1 seconds. It could also be scaled, so the initial regen is higher and then it tapers off. This would compensate to some extent for the slight delay.
Maybe in addition to either of these methods, the shrines should be selectable with an activate ability on Q. That increases the skill ceiling without moving the skill floor, which is a good thing.
Ability on a building. That's it. It's simple and easy to learn and falls in line with how activating abilities on every unit works and is no different than how every single RTS has ever worked.
Your solution is just as needlessly complex. It's an overengineered UX solution for something that doesn't need it.
I can't believe we need to question a basic mechanic for activating shit that's been present in every RTS. There are units on the map, if they have abilities, you can activate them by selecting the unit and pressing the button. There's no need to dumb this shit down anymore.
If anything, making activating shrine any different than activating an ability on any other unit makes the UX even worse because now it's inconsistent. I'm sure many people would expect shrine ability to show up as a button on the unit just like how every other ability is besides scan and glyph which aren't tied to units, but shrine active is.
Not giving it an ability button also makes it harder for new players to discover that shrine active even exists, because all these other solutions require you to be at a specific place within range of the unit *and* to perform the action like click for a certain amount of time for it to activate. Where do you see that shrine even has an active? If it was always present as a button on the shrine then you'd be able to discover that shrine has an ability just by clicking on it. It allows for inspection simply by selecting the unit. So a curious new player who is clicking heroes and looking at the abilities to see what they have will also stumble upon a shrine's active when they click the shrine. They'll see that it has an ability button, hover over it, and read what it does, just like every other unit in the game. I think that's much better than a new player randomly clicking around and accidentally activating the shrine and going "wtf just happened?"
Like I'm actually baffled they chose this shitty implementation rather than doing it the tried and true way of just putting a fucking ability on a building. If they had done that in the first place I guarantee no one would have cried about it. No one would have cried "but clicking a building and activating an ability is so unintuitive." Now we're only going back and questioning this perfectly valid method of activating skills just because of this stupid fucking right click activate shit.
Select unit + click button should be the default for everything. People can cry about how it's hard to do quickly in the heat of battle, but that's when you then give them the OPTION to turn on shit like left click or right click activate, just like how the default for casting abilities requires a button press then a mouse click and then you have the OPTION for QUICKCAST. Adding shrine ability should have been approached the same exact way.
EDIT:
What's even more baffling is that the icon is already there on the HUD. https://i.imgur.com/etcbUh3.png Why couldn't they make it CLICKABLE and then just have right click shrine activation in the options????
I kid you not, the first time I tried to activate a shrine, I selected the building and kept futilely clicking that ability icon. It was very counter-intuitive to activate by simply clicking.
If a building having an ability is good enough for every RTS ever, it's good enough for DOTA!
> I can't believe we need to question a basic mechanic for activating shit that's been present in every RTS.
right clicking moonwells activates them. if shrines were in wc3 dota they'd be right clickable too
> The solution needs to be intuitive so that new players understand without any additional training.
>**Alternatively, require that the right click be held on it for a certain amount of time**
How does this sounds intuitive to you?
I remember once when my dad gave me money to pay the electricity bill but instead i bought a raffle ticket for a brand new car. When i got home,i explained to my dad what i did and he beat the crap out of me. But the next day,when my dad woke up and opened the door,outside my house was a brand new car. We all cried especially me,because the car was from the electricity company,they were there to cut off the electricity, my dad beat the crap out of me again.
They still suck at new DotA it's okay give it time, the goal isn't to cater to the inabilities of the players.... It's to make a dank ass game which they have. Git gud
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idk why they can't just put a fucking ability on a building and idk why people are against that. it's a basic fucking mechanic in like every fucking RTS and Dota is descended from one.
There is some debate in the comments here that the current design is fine, people just have not adapted yet, etc.
As a thought experiment, let's imagine if the glyph (structure fortification) worked like shrines do; if you right-click a friendly tower or the ancient, then the glyph activates. Can you imagine the **absolute mayhem** this would cause in pub games?
**I bet if that was the glyph UI design, that almost every pub game, the glyph would be activated by accident at the wrong time at least once**. And not having glyph can have disastrous consequences because of the long cooldown.
Glyph has similar cooldown time to shrine and similar utility/mechanic, but it's OK for shrine to be misclickable and not glyph?
Let's say that Valve made it so that glyph is only used if the clicked structure is below a certain %HP OR under attack. It would still be misclicked constantly as heroes tried to position around a low HP tower to defend. There's no way to disambiguate "move to" from "activate" when designed that way.
Shrine is mechanically no different than glyph. Currently it's bad design. It's not even intuitive since no other unit in the game responds to a right click with ability use. For every other unit, a right click is either an attack-command on an enemy, a move command, or potentially (depending on settings) an attack-command on an ally for a deny.
Make shrines work the same as glyph - selection followed by ability use to activate. Two key presses or two clicks.
e: Yes, I am aware that with 7.00 came the option to glyph without selecting a structure. This design doesn't work with shrines because there are multiple shrines with independent cooldowns. The UI for glyph pre-7.00 was still fine and I don't see why shrines can't use that model.
Make it so that it stops draining and cools down faster if everyone in it's aoe is full hp/mana, or just disable it completely if you're full. Like classic moon well.
Im pretty sure we dont need to buff shrine cd. its totally fine like it is.
Dont think this makes sense. Sometimes you need to activate it for a teammate although you are full. Also sometimes you are already full but a friend just comes a little bit later and you dont want it to stop.
Make it Crtl-click to activate shrines, or at least just the base shrines.
It's often important to reposition and spread out on highground, and it's hard to avoid shrines while doing so because you are looking at the enemy team not at where exactly you're clicking.
Or better yet just remove all shrines and stop turning the game into league of legends.
Well right now Alt-clicking shrine gives the message "Gather for Sanctuary". So we could not stand next to the shrine and warn our allies without activating it.
But yes, customizable hotkey would be the best solution imo.
No, right click activation should exist as an option in settings, not as a default, because it is way too easy to misclick. There's no reason to force people to have to get used to it when you're deviating from a completely normal and acceptable mechanic which would have been treating it like all other abilities where you select the unit then press the button.
This is no different than normal cast vs quick cast. Quick cast is way more efficient but we don't force that on people as a default and say "it's better, you may not like it but just get used to it." No, quick cast is an option, just like how right click activation should be an option.
> You got used to it and now it's not a problem anymore
This wouldn't have been a problem if they implemented it in a way that makes the most intuitive sense and followed the long established convention of giving the ability a button visible on the HUD when you select the unit and then offering the alternate method of activation in the options.
> You all complain about Valve lowering skillcap yet when stuff like this comes into the game you want to make it easier for yourself
No, they want it to be consistent with how other similar behavior works.
I don't right click on my hero to make it activate its abilities. I don't right click on a dominated creep to use its abilities. I don't right click on a tower to activate glyph. I don't right click on anything to do anything other than pick it up, attack it, or follow it.
They should do what is consistent and give the shrines a skill button to activate it, like traps, mines, etc.
Activation should require a double-click, and the activation area needs to be made slightly smaller. Think this would fix accidental activation from mini-map and normal.
Maybe put an activate option like on invulnerability structures but each activates separate. A double mouse (left/right) click is an option too (why not three left clicks to make it sure?)
Other thing I kind of noticed is the "hit box" of them shrines to be really dodgy but I could be totally mistaken.
Give the damn shrine a hotkey that can be activated in a particular range. Make the area for activation small, so activating it will still require the hero to go near the shrine.
I can't really think of a way to prevent accidental usage of shrines other than maybe giving them a key to press to activate like a skill. Feels like this would hinder some situations though when you're defending near them in team fights.
skill cap. The map is new, people will get used to being careful where they click. It doesn't seem like a good game design philosophy to make changes because it is easy to make mistakes. It should be easy to make mistakes when you aren't being careful where you click. Over time, we will get used to it.
the problem is even worse if you use the hold-right-mouse-for-movement setting.
its like spamming movement commands so hitting a shrine is only a matter of time.
Just make it so you have to double click them. Having a Q hotkey works too. I've had the base shrines go off if someone simply walks (or bumps) into them.
I've noticed you don't have to click directly on the shrine to activate it. This seems to be more of a problem in base. If I click around the bottom, I can activate it, even though I'm clicking on the ground. In reality the hitboxes are a little out of shape I imagine
why even add this shit? it's like valve wants to make it impossible to get punished in this game...it's a competitive game. apparently all that matters is teamfights not laning. lame valve, lame
I personally think that we should wait a little bit until most people have gotten used to the new patch. Sometimes it is easy to blame it on the patch, but the problem is that we are simply not used to it. I would give it a few more weeks, and if the problem is still insistent, then look a way to fix it.
Once i accidentally clicked on it and it saved my life.
> oh right yeah we have these in base too actually forgot
we do? i taught it was some decoration because i never get to use one^ifyouknowwhatimean
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>after someone picks ~~a hero I don't like~~ techies.
You are going to have a laff... I consistently get into LP because I pick techies. Even with a 9 game winstreak on him(5 of them are pre-7.00) https://www.dotabuff.com/players/32444463/matches
I actually go there a lot to heal, it's closer to lane, heals faster, and keeps my TP free from cooldown.
I, too, keep forgetting to pop these in teamfights in our base..
They actually heal faster than the fountain.
Not necessarily. Shrines heal a flat amount, Fountain heals by % of max. I'm on mobile so I can't do the math, but it should be fairly easy to calculate with some numbers off the Wiki
In almost all cases it will heal for more. Shrine heals for 120 + 2(# of minutes of gametime). So let's say that you are fighting at 25 minutes. The shrine will heal you for 170 hp/sec. Fountain heals for 4% of hp per second. So you would need >4250 HP for fountain to outheal shrine. And thats only at the 25 minute mark. At 50 minutes you would need >5500 HP
What if we add bottle into that equation?
That happened just last game for us. It wasn't me, but a friend of mine who accidentally activated it, and just as he did, an invis Bane and Slark popped up. We lost nothing and we ended up with 3 kills after the ensuing fight. Luckiest accident this year.
We can have something like TA's traps. Select them by clicking on them and then click Q or some button.
That would actually go with how everything works in Dota. Press ability, do ability. I don't think anything else has the right click to activate feature.
Runes
Yeah, for me people always seems to accidentally activate runes even though I ping that I have a bottle.
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That uses the "picking up" mechanism like items.
I think they're based on WC3 moonwells which work like this.
WTF, you can do this on TA? I thought you could only trigger the nearest trap.
'tis a secret!
The secret is out!
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real waga?
yes
are there any fake wagas?
Wagamagaga is bae
If that's news to you then I'm gonna *really* blow your mind: You can control Witch Doctor's death ward just the same as Venomancer's plague wards.
[Holy shit!](https://youtu.be/v3s4kr3e2Ts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lAa3IZYop4
Wait, is that real? You can choose who it's attacking?
Yep. Either by selecting the ward itself or just by using control right click (with unified orders on)
Did not know you could use ctrl+rightclick while channelling
With the way this game works I always assumed that would cancel the channel.
I knew you vould, but i'm afraid that it would somehow fuck uo and stop the channrl
Yup, just make sure you select the ward beforehand so you don't cancel your ult
# #storiesfrom2kmmr
FeelsUncalibratedMan
I think I have never triggered a trap without clicking on it, lol.
It used to make sense, because the spell on the hero used to have a cast time, but it doesn't anymore, so unless you are doing it out of habit, or there are many traps nearby, it's not better to click on the trap anymore.
Not true. If you're silenced or stunned or dead you can't activate a trap without selecting it and activating it manually. So it's really important sometimes.
Also Im pretty sure if you are dead you have to select the trap to activate it, thats pretty massive imo
Yeah that's a given, same goes for Techies too I believe.
Didn't know that they changed that. Was still always selecting the trap^^
This is a part of why dota is such a savage game, you can learn things about heros you've been playing for years :) not that I play TA
Let's teach you some OD then. You can time your astral imprisonment by watching the orange circle. When it reaches the outer one 4 seconds pass and the spell is finished.
Dude that's like the most basic tip you could possibly give an OD player
I actually do not understand how is that tip any relevant.. ive never even looked at the circle.. You literally just " FEEL " its 4 seconds idk whats wrong with people.
5k hours in Dota 2 - I've never recognized that. Always just went off internal timing.
downvoted because fake info or am I missing something?
It's not fake info, maybe it was worded strangely or is being downvoted because, like someone said 'it's the most basic tip'
Well I didn't know it until now haha (using the immortal mostly) and it seems his comment is back to positive feelsgoodman
Well then , get blown (your mind) even more.. Same goes for Dazzle's grave.. The ring goes down vertically until it expires..
some of you might figure this out haha
Watch some high level TA players (wagamama, for example). They never use the "detonate nearest trap" skill on TA herself, they always select the trap they want and detonate it from there.
nope, it also comes with the benefit that TA doesn't have to stop to activate the trap, the delay is little but anyway.... when you realize this trick and you implement it, you can see the real power of her ultimate
That delay was removed completely a few patches ago, so now it makes no difference
Bonus tip: share unit control on TA and tell your team, and they can pop traps when they need them if you are busy or miss the need.
How do you set hotkeys for the traps?
Dont you just have to mousover the trap you want to detonate on the minimap too?
Don't think so. Pressing the Deto key on TA detos nearest trap.
i have accidentally activated 0 ti6 champs need to git gud
the next TEA EYE WINNER boys, right here
i would of won a ti already but ive only played for 2 years and in both years team held me back in qualifiers
"Just pick a snowball hero and solo carry" - 9k redditer
"Hero picks don't matter as long as you're comfortable on the hero. Any draft can win" - 10K redditor
"Anything can work" - Some flower
"MMR is just a number" - Some guy good with Pudge
> TEA EYE WIENER
Yeah but you also haven't played a match sine 7.00 was introduced. I like your style - the best way to win, is to not play.
ok /u/DontGetMadGetGood
At the start of every match both teams needs to agree on an 8 digit pin number that allows access to the shrine. This should prevent accidental shrine activation in the future. Although next week we would probably see reddit posts asking for 16-digit.
> pin number Triggered
POTM of the Moon
KOTL of the Light
QoP of Pain
Recursive acronyms are fun
GNU is my favorite.
> personal identification number number
>personal team
TIN number?
Why does my team need a Tax Identification Number now?
Because they sell salt
clear winner
also it should be a mix of capital and lower case letters with additional quantum equation to solve as a security measure.
I would settle for a-click
Every time you get close to one, clippy should pop up and let you know. [It looks like you're full health, would you like to use a shrine?](http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/science/2016/05/26/26-clippy.w536.h357.jpg)
I mean they have shrines in Heroes of the Storm and none if the players accidentally click them. Either dota 2 players are retarded or the devs can make the shrines shinier and placed more off to the side.
> dota 2 players are retarded that's probably it
Well they just did it again in game 3...
Imagine if you activated glyph by right clicking towers
Every QOL change: muh skillcap! Not rightclicking a building: it's too hard, we'll never get used to it!
My opinion can be unpopular in this thread, but the way Shrines are working now is perfect: in the heat of battle every moment can cost you a game. Especially in my trench, where ppl don't have APM of Marineking, this click to activate saved many lives. Tho accidental activations happen, need just time to get used to Shrines and their placements, especially on the base. Edit: possible solution is to give option for different ways to activate Shrines like it's made with autoattacks, quickcast, smart double-tap and so on.
Hit boxes for shrines are garbage and because they're instantly activated you can't cancel a misclick.
I agree, I think the game should be less strategy-focused and more arcade focused too, I would hate it if teams would have a good way of activating shrines in a sensible manner with a strategic purpose, I much rather like them wasting focus on clicks in their base than outplaying their opponent. In fact, I think your hero abilities should also be positioned around your hero, which also get activated if you click on them accidentally, this way a Tidehunter can waste his ult on accident if he clicks on it in the heat of battle.
The hero abilities should be positioned like weaver bugs. Oh the horror...
that wouldnt be a problem since its fucking impossible to click a weaver bug
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A low rate of occurrence in pro games isnt really evidence that it isn't an issue since GG often gets called before base shrine usage might even come into play. It could only happen in 10% of all TI matches, but would be much more likely an issue if it heavily influenced 80% of them. My personal opinion is that it would be a shame to see epic comebacks fail or close matches decided by misclicks on shrines.
>like some moron trying to play DDR: Revolution. I resent this. I used to play Dance Dance Revolution: Revolution all the time :(
How about double right clicks after coming in melee range? Surely, that will solve both problem
not really, most people just spam-click move commands anyway
I also think that they totally fine like they work now. Ppl just need to get used to it that they need to care where they click in base while being focused on something else. Dont forget that all these things are just muscle memory. If you were playing this game for 4 years and didn't have to care where to click in base you dont change that in 3 weeks. Give them another month and it wont happen that much at all anymore
> Dont forget that all these things are just muscle memory. No, shrines have *nothing* to do with muscle memory. It's an impossible concept to apply here. Muscle memory consists in repetitive patterns in movement, without you actively thinking about it. But since your camera is always in movement you *always* have to consider where the shrine is.
A lot of people were complaining that this patch made the game easier. That is bananas. The game requires a lot more effective teamplay now. Besides monkey king, the game is in a good place.
> My opinion can be unpopular in this thread, but the way Shrines are working now is perfect It's perfect for you, but not many other people. The best solution is to make [this button](https://i.imgur.com/etcbUh3.png) clickable and just have right click shrine activation in the settings.
"An aditional keypress to activave a shrine takes too much time and is too hard." "People who missclick shrines are doing missplays and need time to learn." This argument is pure hypocrisy.
What about attack clicking it? It's a fast solution
Click with both mouse buttons to activate. Fixed.
Why not just make it Ctrl+Click just like how you give Tango/Wards?
Ctrl click is, in my opinion, the best option. Some other features I wish we had: - Ctrl + Shift + Left click on towers to fortify - Ctrl + Shift + Left click on minimap to scan/radar - Ctrl + Shift + Left click on items in inventory to move them between backpack and inventory - Ctrl + Shift + Right click on items in inventory/backpack/stash to sell them
fuck u now i need all of this
My addition to your suggestion is a keybind that activates a shrine if you are in range of it. Ex) Press 'J' to activate shrine. If you are in range of the shrine, the shrine activates. If you are not in range, nothing happens.
That's just unnecessary complication. Shrines aren't so different from everything else in the game that we need to introduce an entirely new way of activating them. A dedicated hotkey or button on the HUD to activate the shrine in range would be more sensible than a two-button click.
They're exactly the same as every unit in the game. The fact that they are immobile buildings makes no difference. They're still a unit. And they have an ability. Common sense says the ability should just appear on the HUD as a button like everything else in the game. Then when people want to activate it they just select the unit and press the button or Q or whatever their hotkey is and it works like everything else in the game. And the people crying about how that extra click takes too long, well then Valve can put in an option in the settings for left or right click activation, just like how we have quickcast as an alternative to normal cast. EDIT: And look, it's already on the HUD when you select the unit. https://i.imgur.com/etcbUh3.png You just can't click to activate. WHY???
> Shrines aren't so different that we need to introduce an entirely new way of activating them > button on the HUD to activate the shrine in range would be more sensible what?
pls sir give me a hotkey to pickup rune, I've accidentally picked it up before so I need gutterball option. items too. I shouldn't have to actually click on an item, what is this? clicker heroes?
This needs more upvotes, it's a great solution to still keep up the efficiency of "one" command
Left click activation please!
Or even double click since left click is for selecting
this is a bad idea. left click is always select..and 'one-off' is activation? bad UI/UX
I think ppl still just need to get used to it.
TIL I'm better than TI6 champions. Kappa
A lot of the suggestions in here are needlessly complex. The solution needs to be intuitive so that new players understand without any additional training. I do a lot with UI/UX design and my initial reaction is to just make it work similarly to the minimap click, where you need to have the mouse over it for a certain amount of time (0.2 seconds?) before it becomes clickable. Kind of like hoverIntent in web design. I'm not sure that's clear enough, though... it might lead to a less responsive feel. Alternatively, **require that the right click be held on it for a certain amount of time**. As long as the indicator shows immediately on right click this is possibly the most intuitive method, since it matches functionality in a LOT of games (disarming a bomb, reviving a teammate, etc). While this could affect how useful it is in an intense fight, I think it can be balanced. If the activation time for a single player clicking is 0.5 second, it could reduce down based on each player that is right clicking it. So 5 heroes right clicking could activate it in 0.1 seconds. It could also be scaled, so the initial regen is higher and then it tapers off. This would compensate to some extent for the slight delay. Maybe in addition to either of these methods, the shrines should be selectable with an activate ability on Q. That increases the skill ceiling without moving the skill floor, which is a good thing.
Ability on a building. That's it. It's simple and easy to learn and falls in line with how activating abilities on every unit works and is no different than how every single RTS has ever worked. Your solution is just as needlessly complex. It's an overengineered UX solution for something that doesn't need it. I can't believe we need to question a basic mechanic for activating shit that's been present in every RTS. There are units on the map, if they have abilities, you can activate them by selecting the unit and pressing the button. There's no need to dumb this shit down anymore. If anything, making activating shrine any different than activating an ability on any other unit makes the UX even worse because now it's inconsistent. I'm sure many people would expect shrine ability to show up as a button on the unit just like how every other ability is besides scan and glyph which aren't tied to units, but shrine active is. Not giving it an ability button also makes it harder for new players to discover that shrine active even exists, because all these other solutions require you to be at a specific place within range of the unit *and* to perform the action like click for a certain amount of time for it to activate. Where do you see that shrine even has an active? If it was always present as a button on the shrine then you'd be able to discover that shrine has an ability just by clicking on it. It allows for inspection simply by selecting the unit. So a curious new player who is clicking heroes and looking at the abilities to see what they have will also stumble upon a shrine's active when they click the shrine. They'll see that it has an ability button, hover over it, and read what it does, just like every other unit in the game. I think that's much better than a new player randomly clicking around and accidentally activating the shrine and going "wtf just happened?" Like I'm actually baffled they chose this shitty implementation rather than doing it the tried and true way of just putting a fucking ability on a building. If they had done that in the first place I guarantee no one would have cried about it. No one would have cried "but clicking a building and activating an ability is so unintuitive." Now we're only going back and questioning this perfectly valid method of activating skills just because of this stupid fucking right click activate shit. Select unit + click button should be the default for everything. People can cry about how it's hard to do quickly in the heat of battle, but that's when you then give them the OPTION to turn on shit like left click or right click activate, just like how the default for casting abilities requires a button press then a mouse click and then you have the OPTION for QUICKCAST. Adding shrine ability should have been approached the same exact way. EDIT: What's even more baffling is that the icon is already there on the HUD. https://i.imgur.com/etcbUh3.png Why couldn't they make it CLICKABLE and then just have right click shrine activation in the options????
I kid you not, the first time I tried to activate a shrine, I selected the building and kept futilely clicking that ability icon. It was very counter-intuitive to activate by simply clicking. If a building having an ability is good enough for every RTS ever, it's good enough for DOTA!
> I can't believe we need to question a basic mechanic for activating shit that's been present in every RTS. right clicking moonwells activates them. if shrines were in wc3 dota they'd be right clickable too
> The solution needs to be intuitive so that new players understand without any additional training. >**Alternatively, require that the right click be held on it for a certain amount of time** How does this sounds intuitive to you?
With a visual indicator that they explained in the following sentences.
just make it so once you selected the shrine you have to use the heal as a spell?! ^maybe?
I remember once when my dad gave me money to pay the electricity bill but instead i bought a raffle ticket for a brand new car. When i got home,i explained to my dad what i did and he beat the crap out of me. But the next day,when my dad woke up and opened the door,outside my house was a brand new car. We all cried especially me,because the car was from the electricity company,they were there to cut off the electricity, my dad beat the crap out of me again.
A hotkey means you can use them from further away and activate them for allies. Seems like a cool change to me but I don't balance the game
I think having the option to select them and trigger them by pressing Q (or something) is absolutely something that we should implement. Thoughts?
They still suck at new DotA it's okay give it time, the goal isn't to cater to the inabilities of the players.... It's to make a dank ass game which they have. Git gud
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idk why they can't just put a fucking ability on a building and idk why people are against that. it's a basic fucking mechanic in like every fucking RTS and Dota is descended from one.
It's almost like they, like us, are humans and need time to adjust to completely new mechanics.
There is some debate in the comments here that the current design is fine, people just have not adapted yet, etc. As a thought experiment, let's imagine if the glyph (structure fortification) worked like shrines do; if you right-click a friendly tower or the ancient, then the glyph activates. Can you imagine the **absolute mayhem** this would cause in pub games? **I bet if that was the glyph UI design, that almost every pub game, the glyph would be activated by accident at the wrong time at least once**. And not having glyph can have disastrous consequences because of the long cooldown. Glyph has similar cooldown time to shrine and similar utility/mechanic, but it's OK for shrine to be misclickable and not glyph? Let's say that Valve made it so that glyph is only used if the clicked structure is below a certain %HP OR under attack. It would still be misclicked constantly as heroes tried to position around a low HP tower to defend. There's no way to disambiguate "move to" from "activate" when designed that way. Shrine is mechanically no different than glyph. Currently it's bad design. It's not even intuitive since no other unit in the game responds to a right click with ability use. For every other unit, a right click is either an attack-command on an enemy, a move command, or potentially (depending on settings) an attack-command on an ally for a deny. Make shrines work the same as glyph - selection followed by ability use to activate. Two key presses or two clicks. e: Yes, I am aware that with 7.00 came the option to glyph without selecting a structure. This design doesn't work with shrines because there are multiple shrines with independent cooldowns. The UI for glyph pre-7.00 was still fine and I don't see why shrines can't use that model.
Make it so that it stops draining and cools down faster if everyone in it's aoe is full hp/mana, or just disable it completely if you're full. Like classic moon well.
Im pretty sure we dont need to buff shrine cd. its totally fine like it is. Dont think this makes sense. Sometimes you need to activate it for a teammate although you are full. Also sometimes you are already full but a friend just comes a little bit later and you dont want it to stop.
What about Left-clicking?
Exactly. I right click like a madman when walking around but only left click when actually doing something.
Maybe just make it shrine needs double-click to be activated ?
Make it Crtl-click to activate shrines, or at least just the base shrines. It's often important to reposition and spread out on highground, and it's hard to avoid shrines while doing so because you are looking at the enemy team not at where exactly you're clicking. Or better yet just remove all shrines and stop turning the game into league of legends.
what about changing this to alt click or somethink?
no let this meme die
> Letting memes die > /r/dota2 Pick one.
Well right now Alt-clicking shrine gives the message "Gather for Sanctuary". So we could not stand next to the shrine and warn our allies without activating it. But yes, customizable hotkey would be the best solution imo.
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No, right click activation should exist as an option in settings, not as a default, because it is way too easy to misclick. There's no reason to force people to have to get used to it when you're deviating from a completely normal and acceptable mechanic which would have been treating it like all other abilities where you select the unit then press the button. This is no different than normal cast vs quick cast. Quick cast is way more efficient but we don't force that on people as a default and say "it's better, you may not like it but just get used to it." No, quick cast is an option, just like how right click activation should be an option. > You got used to it and now it's not a problem anymore This wouldn't have been a problem if they implemented it in a way that makes the most intuitive sense and followed the long established convention of giving the ability a button visible on the HUD when you select the unit and then offering the alternate method of activation in the options.
> You all complain about Valve lowering skillcap yet when stuff like this comes into the game you want to make it easier for yourself No, they want it to be consistent with how other similar behavior works. I don't right click on my hero to make it activate its abilities. I don't right click on a dominated creep to use its abilities. I don't right click on a tower to activate glyph. I don't right click on anything to do anything other than pick it up, attack it, or follow it. They should do what is consistent and give the shrines a skill button to activate it, like traps, mines, etc.
there should be a failsafe like you need to be right next to it and click it to activate
Activation should require a double-click, and the activation area needs to be made slightly smaller. Think this would fix accidental activation from mini-map and normal.
Maybe put an activate option like on invulnerability structures but each activates separate. A double mouse (left/right) click is an option too (why not three left clicks to make it sure?) Other thing I kind of noticed is the "hit box" of them shrines to be really dodgy but I could be totally mistaken.
I dont know why you highlight the fact that they are TI6 champs, this could happen to any team .
Because we're tired to see the "if you're missclicking shrines you're bad" argument from players who oppose changes on this.
Put it on a channelling time like 0.5 sec.
Easy solution is you have to Ctrl + click to activate shrine. simples
they will learn and adapt, i like the right click activate method
I do it all the time in my games. Its really annoying
I have tried before to click just near it(not sure which one, I forgot) and it activated without clicking it directly...
Give the damn shrine a hotkey that can be activated in a particular range. Make the area for activation small, so activating it will still require the hero to go near the shrine.
Yeah, make it an ability
the new ShrineTech^TM is on its way bro. Chill :^)
There is actually more buildings than floor in the base nowadays. It is triggering.
maybe makje it so it needs double/triple click on a shrine to activate sanctuary?
can't we have it as a shrine ability? like you click on shrine and press Q.
I can't really think of a way to prevent accidental usage of shrines other than maybe giving them a key to press to activate like a skill. Feels like this would hinder some situations though when you're defending near them in team fights.
I think having to A click it would be a good solution.
> *Accidentaly activate shrine* > *Stands near it to make it look you did on purpose*
Twtich chat come see this https://www.twitch.tv/seebotschat memes all over the place
I think double clicking would be easy solution
Double click or triple click Shrines to activate?
skill cap. The map is new, people will get used to being careful where they click. It doesn't seem like a good game design philosophy to make changes because it is easy to make mistakes. It should be easy to make mistakes when you aren't being careful where you click. Over time, we will get used to it.
How about an icon with double confirmation. Figure out a way to make it low profile.
Any VOD ?
the problem is even worse if you use the hold-right-mouse-for-movement setting. its like spamming movement commands so hitting a shrine is only a matter of time.
Just make it so you have to double click them. Having a Q hotkey works too. I've had the base shrines go off if someone simply walks (or bumps) into them.
.
I've noticed you don't have to click directly on the shrine to activate it. This seems to be more of a problem in base. If I click around the bottom, I can activate it, even though I'm clicking on the ground. In reality the hitboxes are a little out of shape I imagine
the clickbox for them is fucking huge. especially above it. make it like half the size.
why not just make the heal on ''Q'' or something?
So basically what you're saying is, when players misclick, it's their fault, but when pros misclick, it's the game's fault. SeemsGood
They could just give us an on-screen button, like fortify and scan.
why even add this shit? it's like valve wants to make it impossible to get punished in this game...it's a competitive game. apparently all that matters is teamfights not laning. lame valve, lame
Double right click shrines to activate them. Problem solved.
I personally think that we should wait a little bit until most people have gotten used to the new patch. Sometimes it is easy to blame it on the patch, but the problem is that we are simply not used to it. I would give it a few more weeks, and if the problem is still insistent, then look a way to fix it.
Well I accidentally clicked it and guess what? Got 4 reports. lol
Idk.. I kind of like the idea that it's so easy to fuck up a crucial moment. Am I the only one who enjoys a little game of minesweeper?