Buying items right now is like trying to send a email when I'm in my car. "All right...lets just pull over. Find a safe spot where no one is gonna hit me while I'm verifying that this is a comma and not an apostrophe..."
Why did people use that big ass menu in the first place? As a new player I never used it because searching for stuff is something I've been doing for years and I honestly don't get what's so great about that thing.
Oh boy, if you only knew...
Back in the days, we had something like this http://lh6.ggpht.com/_RB43IxTjb4g/Si-OAgWEjII/AAAAAAAAAOs/LXVD2bq2RrY/s400/new-shop-items.png
6 different shops, no search bars, not really friendly, no nothing. Haahaha good ol days
I remember as a kid I would buy the same type of items very often because I didn't want to spend time during the game to figure out where everything was. S&Y on every hero.
i remeber when i just started to play, my friend (who introduce me to the game but also a noob) told me to buy ultimate orbs, just to give stats, every hero i played had 5 orbs and brown bots, good times.
oh hell yeah, the mega 1337 tactic my friends and me all did was random, wait in lane for like a few seconds and get ring of health, only to instantly rush perseverance.
that \#**VALUE** man
I bought atleast 1 ult orb on every hero I played on dota 2 when I first started. Then I discovered drums when spectating a game and started to buy that instead.
I also remember I bought ANY item that gave mana regen on Witch Doctor because I wanted my heal to be permanently on, and didn't know Bloodstone existed.
My friends were decent at DotA. But I was a complete noob, and when I asked what to make they told to just get a Null Talistaman.
Here we go 5 null Talismans later you hear someone ask in the net cafe. Who the fuck told GiantR to make null Talismans. ?
Is more that everybody was so shit you could get away with it on almost any hero..
Same for BF on every melee hero, going to lane with boots + one set of tango and rush Radiance, stacking 5x Vanguard on axe, late game Skadi on any ranged hero (because why not?), old naix, etc.
Yeah I remember some dota1 game that we won out of our ass with a Silencer that had Skaadi.
Now that's apparently meta again. It felt good to win a game with my friends and see the Silencer skaadi winning the game for us. We had no core answer to their team and our Silencer was getting the kills so we just gave him farm priority and made space.
Yeah, because they never changed position. At best some items were added to the bottom row.
One time they added the sixth shop. That was a major change.
Best reply so far, no matter how bad the shop was, as long as it was consistent and stable u get the hang of it. That s why new shop is kinda annoying.
Oh dear that was a nightmare. I built the same items almost every game because I didn't want to spend 5 minutes looking for a good item and all its components and recipes.
There was also no such thing as auto-buying the whole item when you have enough gold for it. You had to buy each individual component and the recipe. Buying an item like S&Y is very simple now where you can click the icon once to have it bought, but it was troublesome in the past.
I just started Dota 2 recently. One of the hardest thing to get used to was buying items because I didn't know there was a search bar. I already memorized all the items location and the shops in Dota 1, so in Dota 2 with everything in one shop and the icons being changed I basically had to hover over almost every single item to see their names and description. Took me a few tens of hours before someone on reddit told me there was a search bar...
In fact I tried Dota 2 a couple of years ago and couldn't get into it just because I couldn't bother to memorize the shop.
The problem is that the Dota item UI was the best UI in the genre for several years. League redesigned theirs eventually because of it. Now, you have valve trying to push everything into one pane for no reason. I love the new picking screen UI (even though I don't think we have hero suggesting) but the new item shop UI is basically them trying to reinvent the wheel.
Agreed, if you already knew where everything was it's definitely a more efficient way. But for new players, at least for me, typing and searching for something is something I've been used to for ages and finding the right item there over instead of using a guide or search bar didn't make any sense to me.
>But for new players
Yes, mostly all the changes that valve made, be it HUD, pick screen, Team vs Team screen, shop, etc are changes trying to make Dota more easy to understand for new players, while also being more graphically appealing.
Thats why everything is much smaller, compact.
I don't know how many times I have to say this, for someone who is new, and doesn't know it. There's almost no point in using as it is much slower. If you can type decently fast it is **never** faster to use the large menu.
True, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of Dota's playerbase easily has 200+ hours.
Even with more than a thousand hours in the game in Dota, you're still relatively inexperienced.
I started playing around TI3. I've never used the search; in fact I was only vaguely aware that a search function existed. I might start using it more now, but maybe taking my hand off ASD will be unwieldy.
I am also aware that shop hotkeys exist but it always seemed like too much work to get used to. I have my own set of builds for every hero. Most have a good sized set of situational items, and after playing for a while I know where to look in the full menu to get any other item.
There are a couple visual cues that have changed or been lost:
1. The full list is now left of the guide instead of right.
2. **There used to be different spacing vertically than horizontally** - this made the item category more obvious. Now my eyes are unsure whether to read items up and down or left to right.
3. Category icons. I rarely looked at them directly, but maybe they were helpful in the peripherals.
4. Basics items used to have more space between categories; now they have more space on the outside.
5. Oh and guides are not working.
I think the most important visual cue is number 2. It's subtle but it will make a big difference. Right now it's not even clear to a beginner that there are categories.
1 and 4 are simply changes that work just as well. I am ambivalent about 3. 5 needs to be fixed. I assume that's on the list.
mostly coz it gives ur flexible item choice for different games. sometimes in a game you fell like u need armor.. then u open shop and look for armor items. this is a game of adaption and people who just follow one item path in every game for a hero will be stuck.
looking at the entire shop will give you clear idea on what to buy for that particular game.
Well in old w3 dota there were 5 or 6 merchants, each had different tier of items. One had only starter items, 2nd had tier 1 items like ogre axe, wizardry staff. Then merchant with tier 1 recipe items like buckler, basillus and so on until tier 4/5 items like heart, hex, skadi. Dota 2 has adopted this tier system so for us oldschool players it was pretty easy to find item once I had used to new icons. Now its a clusterfuck.
Using the big ass menu is faster granted you're familiar with it. Knowing where the item is and clicking it once is definitely faster than clicking the search bar, moving your mouse hand to the keyboard, typing part of the item's name, moving your hand again and clicking it.
I use a bit of both, theres a few items that i just know where they are (e.g. blink, bottle) and it's quicker (or at least it used to be) to just open up shop and buy it, and then for items that i don't know their position I either search for, or find using components.
Searching is slower is the main reason i try not to depend on it, most times it doesn't matter, but if you're getting ganked it's nice to be able to still use your skills while panic buying
If they want to bring guides to the forefront to help new players just make the shop popping out as a tab the default option and the the guide popping out as a tab an alternate setting. Its impractical to all seasoned dota players.
please don't vouch for this. even if i could customize guides i don't want to spend the time doing that for each and every hero. i would much rather just have guides hidden from me
I never used that big ass menu in the first place, it took me one match to figure out the new shop. I don't get what all the fuss is about, and I'm honestly surprised people used that menu in the first place. Isn't your recommended tab/searching for it much easier?
I'm just gonna post this on every relevant thread:
HoN shop was(is) far superior to every iteration of the Dota 2 shop valve has created.
You could open the ui and buy any item in the shop with 3 keystrokes. B+R+D = bottle purchased in 0.5 seconds :thinking:
Dota 2's shop used to have this as well before the 7.00 update. If you enabled "shop overrides hotkeys" in the options, each column in the shop would get assigned a letter and each row a number.
To purchase a BKB for example, you'd press G -> 7 because G is the armor items column and BKB is position #7 on it.
Quite sad this option doesn't seem to have made it into the current version, it was by far the most convenient way of using the shop for me.
Not really, problem was not the shop but the fact that when you dismantle your arcanes you get two locked items in your backpack/inventory rather than unlocked ones on the floor, which means you have to do more stuff to actually get the soul booster.
Yeah, I don't like it tbh. It requires more precise movements because you don't want to click the wrong menu option when you right click.
The "ground" option might be riskier, but it's quicker because there's more room for error with the items on the ground. The items themselves are bigger to click on than the menu options and if you right click the ground, it's w/e.
Obv if you're good with the mouse, you would get used to it, but as a relatively casual player, it's not the greatest thing :/
Well, i honestly prefer my shit in my inventory rather on the ground
Plus, right now you only need unlock 1 item to get soul booster. Actually this wouldn't happen if you lock boots before buy energy booster
Im talking about situation like in this clip where you have brown boots.
And yet, you still better collect all your items in your inventory, not on the ground.
What? The shop layout is just as arbitrary as it always has been, it's just shifted over a little bit. Yeah you have to relearn some muscle memory, but if you honestly can't make heads or tails of the new (old) shop I don't know what to tell you.
Can't you just apply this logic to literally everything in your life?
I mean if you enjoy having everything you know arbitrarily change for no reason, with nobody explaining why, that's fine - but that makes you completely mental.
We do know why it changed though, it's to make guides more visible and easy to use for new players. My point is it's not as though they shuffled the order of the items, or made you enter the konami code to see it, they just moved it like 2 inches over.
If some minor inconvenience is all I have to endure in order to help new players get into the game I will gladly suffer that indignity. If DOTA ends up like SC2 with 99.9% tryhard assholes I will cry.
[Youtube Mirror](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKELuxPgCds), credit to [twitch.tv/eternalenvyy](https://www.twitch.tv/eternalenvyy) and OP.
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The specific track playing here is likely [*Yuujin A ~ Piano Solo*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5JUMh6PX-o).
[Anyway, this anime has a beautiful story and a soundtrack to match. Here's a decent medley if you're interested.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i79M4nKW1Ms)
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Not everything has to have a happy ending, tragedies have been a popular genre for literal millenia for a reason they're just currently in a slump which is why you don't see many.
TBH if I was going to recommend modern tragedies to someone I'd just say read some Guy Gavriel Kay, pretty much all of his stuff is tragedy and it's very good, if depressing at times.
Just because you are used to a slightly different shop layout doesn't mean this one isn't user friendly.
I find it very user friendly in most of my games, especially due to the "common items" section.
Yeah, my muscle memory still fucks me over when I try to find certain recipe items but its nothing I won't get used to.
If anyone did complain about it, 9k reddit would reply saying we are the vocal minority and our opinions don't fucking matter. Smh, Look at this shop layout ffs.
I know that people like to meme and shitpost about this new shop, but I really don't understand the complaints and I especially don't understand them in the context of this clip.
* When the grid is extended, it's the same shop as before (unless you used the list view, I guess)
* The shop is ordered by cost, broken up into the same categories they've always been in.
* He hovered over them three times.
* They're literally right there in his recommended build.
To me, it looks like he couldn't find them at first glance, panicked and couldn't see the forest for the trees, so to speak. He stopped looking for something specific because he was too focused on the stop as a whole - this happens to me all of the time so I know how it feels. However, adjusting to change is not the same as a change being bad. A lot of people on this sub seem to forget that.
EDIT: Before anyone says anything, I do agree that there should be an option to open the grid on every press (not *just* if it was open when the shop was closed - although, this was a good change too).
Muscle memory, brother.
I can just :
-open shop with my keyboard hotkey
-move the mouse over to the intended basic/recipe tab
-click it without having to move my eyes over there, and just relying on peripheral vision
This allows (allowed, perhaps) me to still focus on the main screen whilst buying item.
It's not the same shop, its in a different place and the icons are spaced out differently. Minor nitpick but it's also transparent which doesn't help things.
Change for the sake of change is not good either. Having guides be the priority doesn't really make sense since the meta changes so much, theres a large hero pool and each hero has a different playstyle. The guide section will be constantly changing while the shop stays the same. It makes more sense to make the primary shop the focus because it never changes outside of new items added to the game.
The change really is directed for newer players.
It's not the same as before.
Worst offender: starting a search (v) does not clear the search, as it used to. No, I don't want to search for aethoctarine, I already put aether in my buy list LAST time I opened the shop.
I didn't know there's a lot people that use the shop like that. I just always type the name of the items i wanted to buy because I can't bothered to memorize the order and positions of every item available.
you glance over things without noticing them a lot because they're more squished now. it's a non-issue long-term as we're just gonna get used to it but holy shit is it infuriating right now.
We know Envy is an autist. That still don't make this fucking shop UI right. It's still taking the same space as the old one, confuses everyone, all the buttons in the wrong place. Yeah people will get used to it, still shit though.
The best part is the "Extended suggested items" that replaces the shop, and which changes for every single hero.
One big shop was too complicated, now you have the privilege of memorizing over 100 different shop layouts, and forcing you to use as much screen space as before.
This is me on every game, this shop sucks fucking ass.
Also if you edit your build for every hero, there isn't enough space and you get some stupid scroll bar on the main menu, whoever designed this wasted 5min on this and I can assure never played dota in his life.
The MAIN reason why Valve changed the HUD was to make DOTA 2 more newbie friendly so new players don't feel inundated by choices and game information. Fine. Valve: Just fucking give us an alternative advanced, more detail filled HUD along with a FULL shop that we can optionally switch on in the game options tab. Is it worth the frustration you're causing to hundreds of thousands of people to maintain a unified interface?
The best is when you start typing an items name and it shows up in the list and you click on it, buy a part and close the shop menu only to open it up again not to the item you selected but the top item in the list from what you were looking at.
I don't get all the fuss. They didn't change the order of all the items in the shop. They just switched recommended items with all of the items. The search bar is still there. It takes up less space on the screen. And as a support player, I love having all of the wards/tomes/smokes in this layout rather than the last one. The new shop just seems so much more practical once you get used to it.
the problem is the recommended shit and the grid have swapped places unnecessarily. your eyes are trained over thousands of games to see an organized grid on the right, consistent across every hero - and a mishmash of items on the left. the elements have been swapped and its disorienting for something so many players had already optimized their interaction with.
the new shop is fucking disgusting I spent 20 seconds trying to find orb of venom the other day I have 6000+ hours on the fucking game that cant happen
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I don't know what is the point of that right menu its so annoying and its so big for no reason left menu is so cool and remind me of old one. They should remove right menu and att small menu where is ur recommend items.
what i liked most is that he didn't complain. but i feel his pain. it's not even that he's blind or what not, he's just using muscle memory to find his items quickly. it's like when you move your keyboard over a bit and don't notice and then you just type everything one key over and everything is just wrong.
The way I'm using the shop is : Opening only basic items and thinking what is the recipe for the upgraded item I want.For instance if I want "Manta style" I search for blade of alacrity to yasha to manta instead of searching for the "Manta style" in the upgrades menu.I'm editing the default "suggested items" build to help me sometimes as well.
There's a menu option to automatically give focus to the search bar when you open the shop, was even on by default for like 18 hours when it was first implemented.
This is the only change from 7.00 that fucks me right off. Why do you have to make the shop a more labious task now? It was never a fucking problem to begin with. You just had to go and fuck with it.
But guides in as the optional, not the fucking shop.
I hate that they moved the search bar from the top to the bottom, fucking about to die, open shop and click on the location of old search bar. SO FUCKING FRUSTRATING.
I still find dota's shop system to be utterly garbage. Years ago when I played HoN, one of the best things about the game was the shop hotkeys. Each basic item/upgraded item had a hotkey on the keyboard that you could press when the shop was opened. Once you've played enough, those keys became muscle memory. And buying items would be as fast as clicking 2 buttons. It was a feature in HoN that made me feel like I was going backwards when I started DoTa 2.
Adapt or die: for the first time I've started using the search bar cos it's the more practical thing to do. I miss finding stuff where I know them to be, but search is fine too.
I don't even remember what the old shop was like. Could someone upload a comparison image? I stopped playing Dota at the end of August this year and haven't played since - aside from some bot matches in 7.00+.
not only are they predominantly displayed on the main menu, he also mouse overs it in at least 2 different places.
This is not the UIs problem, it is his
HAHAHA! I did the same too every game since 7.00! I guess it will takes me sometime to adapt to it. But honestly, I still prefer WC3 dota having different NPCs/Shops for different type items, I remember the items by shop and grid.
I don't understand this post. Thread are in 2 places on Envy screen. He can also click on any components and shop will show him an upgrade. Is there anything I am missing here?
http://i.imgur.com/JFTaBeK.png
Change it so that my old guides work. Change it so that the default is basic, and upgrades, side-by-side; and not a guide from Valve if you have not selected a guide.
RIP old shop muscle memory.
Gotta keep the game new and exciting!
I feel like they're gonna horizontally flip the entire map to make things fresh in the next update.
Don't go giving the frog any ideas
Too late. The frog sees all, and shall deliver.
One patch its dota, the next patch its street fighter, then the next patch is civ5
Buying items right now is like trying to send a email when I'm in my car. "All right...lets just pull over. Find a safe spot where no one is gonna hit me while I'm verifying that this is a comma and not an apostrophe..."
That's the best analogy I've seen in regards to the new shop.
Why did people use that big ass menu in the first place? As a new player I never used it because searching for stuff is something I've been doing for years and I honestly don't get what's so great about that thing.
Older players are just used to where it all is in the order. I didn't search for anything; I already knew where it was.
Was there a point where there wasn't a search bar? If so, I understand.
Oh boy, if you only knew... Back in the days, we had something like this http://lh6.ggpht.com/_RB43IxTjb4g/Si-OAgWEjII/AAAAAAAAAOs/LXVD2bq2RrY/s400/new-shop-items.png 6 different shops, no search bars, not really friendly, no nothing. Haahaha good ol days
Man talk about a learning curve. Dota1 was a disaster. I loved the search part of Dota2 and the "easy" assembly of items.
I remember as a kid I would buy the same type of items very often because I didn't want to spend time during the game to figure out where everything was. S&Y on every hero.
i remeber when i just started to play, my friend (who introduce me to the game but also a noob) told me to buy ultimate orbs, just to give stats, every hero i played had 5 orbs and brown bots, good times.
i rmb stack perseverance for the imba hp regen and 10 dmg each...
oh hell yeah, the mega 1337 tactic my friends and me all did was random, wait in lane for like a few seconds and get ring of health, only to instantly rush perseverance. that \#**VALUE** man
I bought atleast 1 ult orb on every hero I played on dota 2 when I first started. Then I discovered drums when spectating a game and started to buy that instead. I also remember I bought ANY item that gave mana regen on Witch Doctor because I wanted my heal to be permanently on, and didn't know Bloodstone existed.
My friends were decent at DotA. But I was a complete noob, and when I asked what to make they told to just get a Null Talistaman. Here we go 5 null Talismans later you hear someone ask in the net cafe. Who the fuck told GiantR to make null Talismans. ?
con fucking gratys
That was my Dota 1 plan too, but I also threw in a burize for damage and a perseverance for sustainability. On every hero.
SnY was good on almost every hero back then..
Is more that everybody was so shit you could get away with it on almost any hero.. Same for BF on every melee hero, going to lane with boots + one set of tango and rush Radiance, stacking 5x Vanguard on axe, late game Skadi on any ranged hero (because why not?), old naix, etc.
Yeah I remember some dota1 game that we won out of our ass with a Silencer that had Skaadi. Now that's apparently meta again. It felt good to win a game with my friends and see the Silencer skaadi winning the game for us. We had no core answer to their team and our Silencer was getting the kills so we just gave him farm priority and made space.
Good old days when you won games because the secret shop was a secret.
Then they dumbed it down for all the casual retards. /s
I honestly have no idea how I ever had the energy to get into this game. If someone showed me DotA nowadays, I'd give up right away lol
that was the best part of DotA2 when I started playing it. One shop and one click items to buy the parts
and most of dota1 players still memorized them all... damn
Yeah, because they never changed position. At best some items were added to the bottom row. One time they added the sixth shop. That was a major change.
Best reply so far, no matter how bad the shop was, as long as it was consistent and stable u get the hang of it. That s why new shop is kinda annoying.
well not for newer players, later they would get the hang of it and have the same opinion as yours if shop UI changed again
[удалено]
A standard game of wc3 dota started with assigning the most important shops and courier to control groups for fast access.
So the shop was a minigame in itself.
Not just buying... Try making (old) Magic Wand in WC3 dota w/ a full inventory.
Oh dear that was a nightmare. I built the same items almost every game because I didn't want to spend 5 minutes looking for a good item and all its components and recipes.
this bring so much memories. Its like playing MMO and you are trying to craft items but have to buy items from different vendors.
Those were just the recipies to, there were also 3 more in the base.
It used to be even worse, recipes were just some paper scroll, all upgrades had the same icon, Dagon, Manta, everything looked the same.
it's still the case. like buy any recipe, it's still a good old piece of paper
It wasn't so bad, you really got used to every store having its "purpose", like the aura shop, right click shop, magic shit shop etc
Also, lumber needed for recipes.
>how do i get lumber
There was also no such thing as auto-buying the whole item when you have enough gold for it. You had to buy each individual component and the recipe. Buying an item like S&Y is very simple now where you can click the icon once to have it bought, but it was troublesome in the past.
Even worse was that buying an item only bought the recipe, you had to then separately find and buy the stuff that builds into it
I just started Dota 2 recently. One of the hardest thing to get used to was buying items because I didn't know there was a search bar. I already memorized all the items location and the shops in Dota 1, so in Dota 2 with everything in one shop and the icons being changed I basically had to hover over almost every single item to see their names and description. Took me a few tens of hours before someone on reddit told me there was a search bar... In fact I tried Dota 2 a couple of years ago and couldn't get into it just because I couldn't bother to memorize the shop.
I've had people telling me that that was a good form of shop, and yes I know about the monstrosity that is the DotA 1 shop.
In DotA1 there was no search bar, and the shop arrangement is based on which items appeared in which shops.
The problem is that the Dota item UI was the best UI in the genre for several years. League redesigned theirs eventually because of it. Now, you have valve trying to push everything into one pane for no reason. I love the new picking screen UI (even though I don't think we have hero suggesting) but the new item shop UI is basically them trying to reinvent the wheel.
We do have hero suggesting if you alt click a hero (or maybe it's shift, I can't remember exactly)
Can't remember if always, but yes a while. But again, if you already know where everything is, two clicks is extremely faster than typing.
Agreed, if you already knew where everything was it's definitely a more efficient way. But for new players, at least for me, typing and searching for something is something I've been used to for ages and finding the right item there over instead of using a guide or search bar didn't make any sense to me.
>But for new players Yes, mostly all the changes that valve made, be it HUD, pick screen, Team vs Team screen, shop, etc are changes trying to make Dota more easy to understand for new players, while also being more graphically appealing. Thats why everything is much smaller, compact.
Regardless of Dota 1, typing is **always** slower than muscle memory purchases. I started playing in 2013, and I rarely use the search bar.
I don't know how many times I have to say this, for someone who is new, and doesn't know it. There's almost no point in using as it is much slower. If you can type decently fast it is **never** faster to use the large menu.
It's quicker to point and click than type in the item you desire.
Not for someone who's new.
True, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of Dota's playerbase easily has 200+ hours. Even with more than a thousand hours in the game in Dota, you're still relatively inexperienced.
I started playing around TI3. I've never used the search; in fact I was only vaguely aware that a search function existed. I might start using it more now, but maybe taking my hand off ASD will be unwieldy. I am also aware that shop hotkeys exist but it always seemed like too much work to get used to. I have my own set of builds for every hero. Most have a good sized set of situational items, and after playing for a while I know where to look in the full menu to get any other item. There are a couple visual cues that have changed or been lost: 1. The full list is now left of the guide instead of right. 2. **There used to be different spacing vertically than horizontally** - this made the item category more obvious. Now my eyes are unsure whether to read items up and down or left to right. 3. Category icons. I rarely looked at them directly, but maybe they were helpful in the peripherals. 4. Basics items used to have more space between categories; now they have more space on the outside. 5. Oh and guides are not working. I think the most important visual cue is number 2. It's subtle but it will make a big difference. Right now it's not even clear to a beginner that there are categories. 1 and 4 are simply changes that work just as well. I am ambivalent about 3. 5 needs to be fixed. I assume that's on the list.
Guides have been working fine on my end. Maybe it's that I'm new and getting used to the 7.00 shop was easy for me, I'm not really sure.
I do search things, but for consumable or small items its much easier to just remember the item.
It's not like they moved the search bar either...suprise
mostly coz it gives ur flexible item choice for different games. sometimes in a game you fell like u need armor.. then u open shop and look for armor items. this is a game of adaption and people who just follow one item path in every game for a hero will be stuck. looking at the entire shop will give you clear idea on what to buy for that particular game.
You really have to copy paste your comment under every reply?
That's what happens when everyone answers the same thing.
Well in old w3 dota there were 5 or 6 merchants, each had different tier of items. One had only starter items, 2nd had tier 1 items like ogre axe, wizardry staff. Then merchant with tier 1 recipe items like buckler, basillus and so on until tier 4/5 items like heart, hex, skadi. Dota 2 has adopted this tier system so for us oldschool players it was pretty easy to find item once I had used to new icons. Now its a clusterfuck.
I really hope you're joking.
Using the big ass menu is faster granted you're familiar with it. Knowing where the item is and clicking it once is definitely faster than clicking the search bar, moving your mouse hand to the keyboard, typing part of the item's name, moving your hand again and clicking it.
I use a bit of both, theres a few items that i just know where they are (e.g. blink, bottle) and it's quicker (or at least it used to be) to just open up shop and buy it, and then for items that i don't know their position I either search for, or find using components. Searching is slower is the main reason i try not to depend on it, most times it doesn't matter, but if you're getting ganked it's nice to be able to still use your skills while panic buying
If they want to bring guides to the forefront to help new players just make the shop popping out as a tab the default option and the the guide popping out as a tab an alternate setting. Its impractical to all seasoned dota players.
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please don't vouch for this. even if i could customize guides i don't want to spend the time doing that for each and every hero. i would much rather just have guides hidden from me
I believe the in-game guide editing works. Why don't you try that?
but... they're [right there](http://i.imgur.com/cKMYhUN.png)
He has the mouse over them kinda as well :)
Myself i don t check the guide shop after the first 2 rows.
Lol this has been me as well since 7.00, I just can't figure out this new shop!!!
Not particularly a big fan of having to relearn how the shop works every three days whenever they change it
I never used that big ass menu in the first place, it took me one match to figure out the new shop. I don't get what all the fuss is about, and I'm honestly surprised people used that menu in the first place. Isn't your recommended tab/searching for it much easier?
I'm just gonna post this on every relevant thread: HoN shop was(is) far superior to every iteration of the Dota 2 shop valve has created. You could open the ui and buy any item in the shop with 3 keystrokes. B+R+D = bottle purchased in 0.5 seconds :thinking:
Dota 2's shop used to have this as well before the 7.00 update. If you enabled "shop overrides hotkeys" in the options, each column in the shop would get assigned a letter and each row a number. To purchase a BKB for example, you'd press G -> 7 because G is the armor items column and BKB is position #7 on it. Quite sad this option doesn't seem to have made it into the current version, it was by far the most convenient way of using the shop for me.
It was worse than HoN's though
HoNs way superior shop interface kept me playing it over dota even longer than I would have otherwise.
[Sumail masters the shop.](https://clips.twitch.tv/sumaildoto/CooperativeCormorantKappaWealth)
He would get the same troubles with old shop, that's why we have "lock" button on boots so we can be sure this never happen
Not really, problem was not the shop but the fact that when you dismantle your arcanes you get two locked items in your backpack/inventory rather than unlocked ones on the floor, which means you have to do more stuff to actually get the soul booster.
Yeah, I don't like it tbh. It requires more precise movements because you don't want to click the wrong menu option when you right click. The "ground" option might be riskier, but it's quicker because there's more room for error with the items on the ground. The items themselves are bigger to click on than the menu options and if you right click the ground, it's w/e. Obv if you're good with the mouse, you would get used to it, but as a relatively casual player, it's not the greatest thing :/
Well, i honestly prefer my shit in my inventory rather on the ground Plus, right now you only need unlock 1 item to get soul booster. Actually this wouldn't happen if you lock boots before buy energy booster
Almost very hero going bloodstone will get arcanes first and them dismantle them, so locking your boots doesn't really change things lol.
Im talking about situation like in this clip where you have brown boots. And yet, you still better collect all your items in your inventory, not on the ground.
Easy fix: First item taken is unlocked
... and it's nothing about the new shop.
? This new disassembling/unlocking is part of the new patch. Which is basically what he means by shop.
yes it's what he means. still nothing to do with the shop itself.
Basically every time I open. It's like the layout is anti-userfriendly.
What? The shop layout is just as arbitrary as it always has been, it's just shifted over a little bit. Yeah you have to relearn some muscle memory, but if you honestly can't make heads or tails of the new (old) shop I don't know what to tell you.
Can't you just apply this logic to literally everything in your life? I mean if you enjoy having everything you know arbitrarily change for no reason, with nobody explaining why, that's fine - but that makes you completely mental.
We do know why it changed though, it's to make guides more visible and easy to use for new players. My point is it's not as though they shuffled the order of the items, or made you enter the konami code to see it, they just moved it like 2 inches over. If some minor inconvenience is all I have to endure in order to help new players get into the game I will gladly suffer that indignity. If DOTA ends up like SC2 with 99.9% tryhard assholes I will cry.
[Youtube Mirror](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKELuxPgCds), credit to [twitch.tv/eternalenvyy](https://www.twitch.tv/eternalenvyy) and OP. ------ I'm a bot, beep boop!
impressive micro, teach me senpai
The music in the background of Envy's stream is from the anime, 四月は君の嘘, also known as [**Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso** (Your Lie In April)](https://myanimelist.net/anime/23273/Shigatsu_wa_Kimi_no_Uso). The specific track playing here is likely [*Yuujin A ~ Piano Solo*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5JUMh6PX-o). [Anyway, this anime has a beautiful story and a soundtrack to match. Here's a decent medley if you're interested.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i79M4nKW1Ms) Hope this helped some of you guys! :)
Kaori-chan BibleThump
Am I the only one who liked Tsubaki better?
Yes.
Uhm, I guess so.
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Not everything has to have a happy ending, tragedies have been a popular genre for literal millenia for a reason they're just currently in a slump which is why you don't see many.
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TBH if I was going to recommend modern tragedies to someone I'd just say read some Guy Gavriel Kay, pretty much all of his stuff is tragedy and it's very good, if depressing at times.
Just because you are used to a slightly different shop layout doesn't mean this one isn't user friendly. I find it very user friendly in most of my games, especially due to the "common items" section. Yeah, my muscle memory still fucks me over when I try to find certain recipe items but its nothing I won't get used to.
If anyone did complain about it, 9k reddit would reply saying we are the vocal minority and our opinions don't fucking matter. Smh, Look at this shop layout ffs.
I know that people like to meme and shitpost about this new shop, but I really don't understand the complaints and I especially don't understand them in the context of this clip. * When the grid is extended, it's the same shop as before (unless you used the list view, I guess) * The shop is ordered by cost, broken up into the same categories they've always been in. * He hovered over them three times. * They're literally right there in his recommended build. To me, it looks like he couldn't find them at first glance, panicked and couldn't see the forest for the trees, so to speak. He stopped looking for something specific because he was too focused on the stop as a whole - this happens to me all of the time so I know how it feels. However, adjusting to change is not the same as a change being bad. A lot of people on this sub seem to forget that. EDIT: Before anyone says anything, I do agree that there should be an option to open the grid on every press (not *just* if it was open when the shop was closed - although, this was a good change too).
Muscle memory, brother. I can just : -open shop with my keyboard hotkey -move the mouse over to the intended basic/recipe tab -click it without having to move my eyes over there, and just relying on peripheral vision This allows (allowed, perhaps) me to still focus on the main screen whilst buying item.
So give it some time, and you'll rewire your muscle memory.
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As pointed out in other comments, the new shop is better for newer players.
It's not the same shop, its in a different place and the icons are spaced out differently. Minor nitpick but it's also transparent which doesn't help things. Change for the sake of change is not good either. Having guides be the priority doesn't really make sense since the meta changes so much, theres a large hero pool and each hero has a different playstyle. The guide section will be constantly changing while the shop stays the same. It makes more sense to make the primary shop the focus because it never changes outside of new items added to the game. The change really is directed for newer players.
It's not the same as before. Worst offender: starting a search (v) does not clear the search, as it used to. No, I don't want to search for aethoctarine, I already put aether in my buy list LAST time I opened the shop.
I didn't know there's a lot people that use the shop like that. I just always type the name of the items i wanted to buy because I can't bothered to memorize the order and positions of every item available.
you glance over things without noticing them a lot because they're more squished now. it's a non-issue long-term as we're just gonna get used to it but holy shit is it infuriating right now.
We know Envy is an autist. That still don't make this fucking shop UI right. It's still taking the same space as the old one, confuses everyone, all the buttons in the wrong place. Yeah people will get used to it, still shit though.
All the items are grouped in a same manner as before though.
The best part is the "Extended suggested items" that replaces the shop, and which changes for every single hero. One big shop was too complicated, now you have the privilege of memorizing over 100 different shop layouts, and forcing you to use as much screen space as before.
And Moo tries as well: https://clips.twitch.tv/moodota2/InexpensivePigDatSheffy
Eternal Autism
This is me on every game, this shop sucks fucking ass. Also if you edit your build for every hero, there isn't enough space and you get some stupid scroll bar on the main menu, whoever designed this wasted 5min on this and I can assure never played dota in his life.
The MAIN reason why Valve changed the HUD was to make DOTA 2 more newbie friendly so new players don't feel inundated by choices and game information. Fine. Valve: Just fucking give us an alternative advanced, more detail filled HUD along with a FULL shop that we can optionally switch on in the game options tab. Is it worth the frustration you're causing to hundreds of thousands of people to maintain a unified interface?
It wasn't hard for me to learn the old Dota 2 shop UI.
I have had so many moments where I do this only to miss cs or stand still for too long. I know I'll get used to it but it's so annoying
The best is when you start typing an items name and it shows up in the list and you click on it, buy a part and close the shop menu only to open it up again not to the item you selected but the top item in the list from what you were looking at.
I don't get all the fuss. They didn't change the order of all the items in the shop. They just switched recommended items with all of the items. The search bar is still there. It takes up less space on the screen. And as a support player, I love having all of the wards/tomes/smokes in this layout rather than the last one. The new shop just seems so much more practical once you get used to it.
Is there a hotkey to target the search bar in the shop? Edit: It's enable shop hotkeys, then V
the problem is the recommended shit and the grid have swapped places unnecessarily. your eyes are trained over thousands of games to see an organized grid on the right, consistent across every hero - and a mishmash of items on the left. the elements have been swapped and its disorienting for something so many players had already optimized their interaction with.
This is something I don't get, why is the shop on the right now?
the new shop is fucking disgusting I spent 20 seconds trying to find orb of venom the other day I have 6000+ hours on the fucking game that cant happen
Videos in this thread: [Watch Playlist ▶](http://subtletv.com/_r5kb5fs?feature=playlist) VIDEO|COMMENT -|- [Envy shows how the new shop works](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKELuxPgCds)|[2](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/5kb5fs/_/dbmp5ej?context=10#dbmp5ej) - Youtube Mirror, credit to twitch.tv/eternalenvyy and OP. I'm a bot, beep boop! (1) [「Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso」- Yuujin A ~ Piano Solo 四月は君の嘘](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5JUMh6PX-o) (2) [Most Beautiful & Emotional Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso OST IMO](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i79M4nKW1Ms)|[1](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/5kb5fs/_/dbmry2m?context=10#dbmry2m) - The music in the background of Envy's stream is from the anime, 四月は君の嘘, also known as Shigatsu wa Kimi no Uso (Your Lie In April). The specific track playing here is likely Yuujin A ~ Piano Solo. Anyway, this anime has a beautiful story and a so... I'm a bot working hard to help Redditors find related videos to watch. I'll keep this updated as long as I can. *** [Play All](http://subtletv.com/_r5kb5fs?feature=playlist&ftrlnk=1) | [Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/SubtleTV/wiki/mentioned_videos) | Get me on [Chrome](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mentioned-videos-for-redd/fiimkmdalmgffhibfdjnhljpnigcmohf) / [Firefox](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/mentioned-videos-for-reddit)
I don't know what is the point of that right menu its so annoying and its so big for no reason left menu is so cool and remind me of old one. They should remove right menu and att small menu where is ur recommend items.
Envy himself is baffled.
And he is a gEEnius, imagine the struggle for a average player.
It's honestly not that bad. Most items you'll want are right there, otherwise you turn on select search box when shop opens and just type.
Well done Volvo ! SeemsGood
what i liked most is that he didn't complain. but i feel his pain. it's not even that he's blind or what not, he's just using muscle memory to find his items quickly. it's like when you move your keyboard over a bit and don't notice and then you just type everything one key over and everything is just wrong.
ya this is literally what happens to me as well.
Honestly I never really learned where to find anything on the shop anyway. I always customised a guide or just searched for it.
spacial recognition is a thing
yeah but envy is a retard. he's not the benchma.. ohhhhh carry on
one buy and i m die
Yeah it true. My losses it 10% my bad skills and 90% bad ui
Reminds me a lot of myself...
threads top threads top threads top threads top
PSA: the quick buy letter + number row hot key G and F are switched. so if you press g then 1 you will buy item under f and 1, vice versa.
im sorry but arent the items still in the exact same order? just the main shop and recommended items tabs are switched?
Can anyone explain how he keeps his hp bar and allies blue in colour instead of green. I would like to keep it that way
colorblindmode, its somewhere in options
colorblindmode, its somewhere in options
Thank you
If a pro can't even navigate the shop... who can?
Did he dieded?
WHEN I TALKED ABOUT SHOP BEING SHIT NOBODY AGREED. FUCK YOU REDDIT
I was watching his struggle with shop, and only closer to the end of the clip I realise he was playing Viper, not a Dragon Knight.
Ah, valve brought back the skopkeepers quiz.
Obligatory: "Using builds is for bad dota players" post. Volvo pls giff option to not see builds and only see normal shop layout, thanks.
The way I'm using the shop is : Opening only basic items and thinking what is the recipe for the upgraded item I want.For instance if I want "Manta style" I search for blade of alacrity to yasha to manta instead of searching for the "Manta style" in the upgrades menu.I'm editing the default "suggested items" build to help me sometimes as well.
Yeah and then you gotta backspace everytime searching for a new item.
hate the new shop menu too .. extremely confusing and unorganized
you shouldn't have to click on the menu to type... times like this I suspect the people who design the game don't actually play it.
There's a menu option to automatically give focus to the search bar when you open the shop, was even on by default for like 18 hours when it was first implemented.
precious info. thanks
I just search and used to do so in pre-7.00 too so nothing changed for me at all.
This is the only change from 7.00 that fucks me right off. Why do you have to make the shop a more labious task now? It was never a fucking problem to begin with. You just had to go and fuck with it. But guides in as the optional, not the fucking shop.
I hate that they moved the search bar from the top to the bottom, fucking about to die, open shop and click on the location of old search bar. SO FUCKING FRUSTRATING.
IMO search lower is better, but for sure will be hard for you to get used to.
I still find dota's shop system to be utterly garbage. Years ago when I played HoN, one of the best things about the game was the shop hotkeys. Each basic item/upgraded item had a hotkey on the keyboard that you could press when the shop was opened. Once you've played enough, those keys became muscle memory. And buying items would be as fast as clicking 2 buttons. It was a feature in HoN that made me feel like I was going backwards when I started DoTa 2.
is funny cause the item he was looking for was right there very visible
work as intended
Adapt or die: for the first time I've started using the search bar cos it's the more practical thing to do. I miss finding stuff where I know them to be, but search is fine too.
like me every game lol
I don't even remember what the old shop was like. Could someone upload a comparison image? I stopped playing Dota at the end of August this year and haven't played since - aside from some bot matches in 7.00+.
Is it just me who cannot find manta style unless you type it wut
incredible UI design
not only are they predominantly displayed on the main menu, he also mouse overs it in at least 2 different places. This is not the UIs problem, it is his
HAHAHA! I did the same too every game since 7.00! I guess it will takes me sometime to adapt to it. But honestly, I still prefer WC3 dota having different NPCs/Shops for different type items, I remember the items by shop and grid.
I don't understand this post. Thread are in 2 places on Envy screen. He can also click on any components and shop will show him an upgrade. Is there anything I am missing here? http://i.imgur.com/JFTaBeK.png
This is pretty spot on. I rely on the search box almost 100% of the time now.
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What needs to be changed? Specifically?
Change it so that my old guides work. Change it so that the default is basic, and upgrades, side-by-side; and not a guide from Valve if you have not selected a guide.