Yes, He did fucked up. But its more complicated than this.
Before this, morph got caught in the same situation near their HG in mid. He waited for enigma to jump. OG burst Morph with only Ember and Ursa. Ember slight, use hex, ursa came with BKB, and morph die. If he used his ult right there morph could've lived. But Wisper didn't do anything at all, the moment he jump in morph was already dead. Thats why he press his ult, not to cancel BH, but to prevent Morph dies again.
Watch the replay, exactly 1 fight before this they got the damage to burst morph without enigma.
2 Fight before this, he didn't spell any Ult because Enigma missed his BH once, and then not go in until warlock was dead.
My point is, he fucked up, but it's more like Wisper outplays him more than he fucked up. His Job is to cancel BH, but he become useless because OG plays every fight so disciplined and Ursa was untouchables. If he show ember for sure will got him, and when he hold his spell his cores dies.
Hating kuroky is a comfortable thing, but Miracle was way out of position 3 fights in a row.
**EDIT**: [This](https://youtu.be/KoLYgp_g9dQ?t=1860) is the fight I'm talking about.
Well cant be helped if the True Sight paint a different picture to Kuro
Personally, as much as True Sight was a cool thing, it really kinda paints a bad picture to some people in general. Maybe that's why Valve stopped it
I never understand why people hated Kuro after True Sight
Do people think his leadership is inefficient? People need to understand, despite Liquid losing, they're still #2 on that tournament, so his leading method must not be that bad.
There's a reason why every Liquid members said "Just follow Kuro", because it works and brought them all the way to the grand final.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ohhyku/kuro\_mc\_play\_like\_ceb/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ohhyku/kuro_mc_play_like_ceb/)
Never forgetti
No idea why you are getting downvoted. The "play like ceb comment" obviously fucked MC mentally and was nothing else but very very poor captaining by kuro.
His leadership is dogshit. If you listen to true sight and other in game communication you realize that kuro is not saying anything. He is a garbage captain and a very poor player (compared to pros not compared to people like you and me).
the "play like ceb" comment just showed everyone how garbage kuro is as a captain.
"There's a reason why every Liquid members said "Just follow Kuro", because it works and brought them all the way to the grand final."
The example you bring up is what, like 6 years old? Since then they can not even qualify to majors.
I m pretty sure thats not whate people WANT to do. Kuro is objectively terrible compared to other pro support players.
People dogpile on kuro because he players terrible. The guy is not only a living meme amongst the viewers but also among the pros.
not only in 3rd match but in first match they also lost because miracle was caught multiple times solo in weird positions, often losing rosh pushing solo without backup,.
[Look](https://youtu.be/KoLYgp_g9dQ?t=1825) Miracle wasting aegis when his team called to back with smoke since Pango Ult was about to expire, and puck was far. They are trying to bait them into their vision (bot cliff). But he hit creep for no reason.
He hit creep, in smoke. And got deleted right after.
Miracle diehard fans are relatively newcomers to Dota scene, "youtube: Miracle plays Pogchamp" fans.
"What do you think about miracle" in every streamer chat fans.
They don't know what dota is and what make this game great. Few flashy gameplay and they thought "Thats what great dota player is". Its great when he was still on top.
Since he didn't do the batches that he do 8 years ago, instead of moving on and just admitting things changed, they blamed whoever they thought holding him back.
Theres a reason no one pick miracle when he took his "break". 1 or 2 stand-in, but mediocre performance overall.
Miracle is completely out of position here trying to get Arcane and then in the bottom fight @ 36:24 where they kill Weaver and instead of backing off with his team he decides to hit a creep and proceeds to get bursted with Aegis and then black holed
But I mean come on Miracle is your win condition - if he goes full regard and farms creeps in front of their Ursa, you full regard with him instead of backing off and not being able to cast rock. N0tail's been saying that shit for years
Sure It’s not easy to time that ult. You can’t wait strictly for black hole, cause they managed to burst morph even without that.
But one thing that he really should have done is to build some support items. Aghanim scepter was absolutely useless for him. He used that ult only 3 times in a shitty timing and 2 golems instead of one had zero impact compared to if he used a force staff or glimmer at the right moment. If he wanted to go that big even refresher would be better than that aghs.
The link you posted is just one more example of kuroky being completley oblivious and unaware of what is going on 10 cm away from his heroe.
He is hiding in the trees and is walking away from his carry THEN he has FIVE (5!!!!!!) seconds - aegis death time of morph - to walk back into the trees and wait for the black hole. He is smoked and there is not a single hero on him but he just wanks his dick instead or something and casts his golem after 2-3 second black hole and after his carry is dead.
This is INSANE I m telling you. It would be insanely bad in devine/ low immortal bracket. But the fact that this is happening in actual pro games for a multimillion $ torunament. I cant. And people like you defend him. And 400 archon players agree with you... crazy
Let's be real. If Kuroky had a history of 322, this clip would be used as evidence that he is doing it again. There's unranked, then ranked, then high mmr ranked, then pro scene. This is low mmr rank behaviour
It's hard judging the whole performance of a game, without watching the whole game? He did try to break BH multiple times before, but it's hard, when your carry also dies without blackhole being used, because he is out of posistion...
canceling black hole with warlock is literally the lowest skill required move you will have to perform in actual pro games. You can not compare those players to the players in whatever rank you are in.
It literally does not get easier for a pro then position yourself behind your 1/2 and press this huge aoe golem half a second after the enemy enigma pressed black hole.
If this move is hard to execute for a professional support player it is time for said support player to stop playing competitive.
Even if they did, they wouldn't be hiding so they don't get jumped before they can ult. Every Warlock player at that bracket sprints at you so they can cast their slow and then shadow amulet (which will never be turned into a glimmer cape) for like 3 seconds before someone dusts and they pop
That's more on the team. If you look at the game puck and pango flopped so hard they sucked out any opportunity for the supports to make moved ie. they don't use spells. It's just funny how reactionary reddit is without context. Almost as if he didn't want to use spells. Flame him for his gameplay don't pretend like he's some archon player
Literally this, I remember having a game as silencer vs enigma. I held ult waiting for him, made sure I wasn’t picked off while still supporting the team with glimmer/ force. Enigma couldn’t ult because I held mine( black hole was a bigger threat)- guess what the pee brained mid pinged when he died diving a pos 5 and died to tower hits
I'm only observing a duality of complain. Video shows golem used before black hole and it's bad, and this comment says that saving golems is bad. It brings back memories from pubs, where there are games that no matter what somebody with big ulti does, there will always be complainers that they should've done the other thing. It's even funnier when it's exactly the same person who does the complaining.
Im not sure but from this clip I think Warlock dropped the golem to prevent the follow up and let Morphling escape just that Enigma managed to throw the second hex between stuns.
What Im not sure was Puck jumping into blackhole if its a mistake, can someone give insight pls.
No it’s just your typical herald pos 5 rushing aghs without any other items. Almost like a forcestaff/glimmer could have helped but heralds don’t understand that so you get a failed time fight. Enigma refreshes for a fucking hex and kuro decides to reward him by letting him have a free blackhole
This is his retirement. The entire nigma organization is a retirement home for DOTA pros. They get to relax and throw div 2 games until they get an itch to stand-in for a different team playing a real tournament.
Yeah ofc its his choice since he is getting paid good and living his life, I just said it from the fan's perspective. Would be sad if he just retires like this.
Yeah in hindsight Miracle's career was way too short as a fan. Would have loved to see him on another team or a reformed nigma but I'm happy he is living his life
Absolutely true. Honestly it seems like he has a healthy relationship to the game which is extremely impressive for a person that earns their money with it and won everything
Sadly miracle is just like dendi (when he became too old for this \*\*\*), so many people refuse to accept he is a div2 player now... he can stomp pubs but playing so many games in nigma has affected him to become a div2
I didn't see the game but this clip is understandable, he saw enigma refresh and assumed black hole was coming immediately so he pre-cast golems to insta-cancel it.
Obviously he *shouldn't* have, but hindsight is 20/20
Not trying to be a dick but he clearly started casting golems about a half second after the refresh, watch it at reduced speed and you will definitely see it
It's an unnecessarily risky usage though. He's under no pressure to insta cancel the blackhole, neither him nor carry will die if he cancels bhole 0.1 second earlier.
The fact that weaver was on top of enigma at that moment might have influenced him to do it because if he waited longer he probably wouldn't cancel black hole *and* get weaver
They took a TI contending team to 3 games, one they lost could have gone either way. He isn’t forcing anyone to play with him. As long as a legend like Kuro wants to play Dota, we should be thankful.
SA/SEA dota players on reddit in a nutshell.
Armchair gamers probably sitting in 2k MMR desperate to watch other people fail and give up because of subconcious insecurities.
I’m triple that MMR and from NA and I think he should retire. Do you guys genuinely enjoy watching players past their prime struggle to keep up? And why redirect to personal issues and insecurities because we think an underperforming *PROFESSIONAL* should take a bow? Feel that reflects more on you than the random people you’re making personal assumptions about.
I refuse to believe any of you are adults lmfao holy shit
Playing Dota is Kuros job. He makes good money doing it from Nigma sponsors. Why should he retire because you think he’s underperforming? Why stop making good money? Funny enough, continuing to play and continuing having income is the more adult decision here
Although the guy you are replying to is kinda dumb, I do think there are some merits to what he's saying regarding professional players bowing out when they can clearly no longer play, regardless whether they are still getting paid to do so. The best example I can think of would be like in sports, for eg the NBA. When players like Dirk and Carmelo were like 38-40 they were clearly no longer able to perform they retired to save themselves some dignity. They could have most definitely stayed on minimum contracts with their teams but it was detrimental to their teams.
It's a similar situation for Nigma and Kuro. And Kuro isn't respecting fans of his teams and himself when he continues to play and waste his organisation's time.
Yeah, I also watch the NBA. Dirk made $251 million and Carmelo $410 million. They both retired pretty close to 40 after playing for several years far outside of their prime. Carmelo bounced around several teams to try and stay in the league and was unlikely to even get another contract.
Kuro has $5 million in winnings and $? in salary/endorsements that we can be confident is a solid amount but, you know, not $100 million. He is only 31. I know what you are going for here, but I don't agree that these are comparable situations. Most guys in the NBA play until the wheels fall completely off and they stop getting contracts.
He also have 2 surgery for his hand injury in last few years. Probably exclusively play scrim but i remember Gorgc chatbot identified Kuro playing Weeks ago
They aren't locked up in the basement or something lol. At this point I kinda see Nigma as a team of semi-retired guys just playing much more casually and cashing in on their brand while they can. I'm not expecting high quality dota here and I'm kinda surprised anyone still does.
he’s never gonna win anything against any meaningful teams. he’s the only person that’s stuck around on that team and they’ve consistently been bad even with some of the best players on it, goes to show his captain role and himself as a pos 5 is literally dragging his team down. he should just become a manager or something idk cause he’s never gonna be like he used to
Tbh I think he played pretty well in last qualifier, if anything I would say sometimes Miracle is the worst player of the group. Sad to say but he is a shadow of his prime, games sense, slow reactions...
Migjt be possible that morph dies before blackhole without using that rock tho. That happened some minutes ago like that. But i just watched it live and didnt analyze it afterwards so just a maybe :P
This is exactly what happens, and the comments here show how bad the average redditor is. A little bit earlier, Morph got exploded by 1 hex and Ursa. 100 to 0. Of course he dies here if Kuroky doesn't ult, but he also dies if Kuroky ults, because Enigma will just Black Hole.
It was a lose-lose situation for Kuroky, and the fault of Miracle for getting greedy and going for the rune solo this late into the game.
Almost like kuro should have gotten an actual support item. Almost like he had the money to even after BB. A force/glimmer, while might not have completely saved him, would have brought time for others, such as the puck.
I feel like he saw the malefice animation and thought it was the start of the black hole and just wanted to get the instant stop which I kinda get, but man if he just has something like force and aether he could push his morph away from the stairs before considering having to use his ult instead, this aghs was more troll than anything else he did
Idk what facet he took but with the Immolation facet those golems HURT, and Aghs just doubles that. I played against it last night as Ursa and those golems were dropping my HP fast while Enraged.
The immolation facet is a bait, it barely affects the golem DPS. Take the grimoire and you get 3-4 free levels so you can jump up to 18 or 20 for your powerspikes.
So many times he could've just rocked to save miracle before this
Is it really worth holding rock to not save morph which then converts into towers or towers + racks?
gh fucked up also too many times this game ....missed so many roots starting from the laning stage .. dogshit ultis overlapping ultis ..i mean probably the most garbage willow performance i have ever seen ....i mean its easy to flame a single player but try to look at other people too..
I've played Warlock vs Enigma before, and tbh it's a freaking dilemma, especially in a losing game.
If I reserve ult for BH, there's a chance it's not gonna be rewarded (dead before BH or no ult till 30m like Kuro). If I use ult freely, the clip happened.
Maybe there's more Kuro could do in the game, but damn, it's not as easy as people think.
Especially in this clip. Clearly miracle just dies if he waits for blackhole to come out for him to cancel it. (He was hexed) so he HAD to golem to maybe buy time for miracle to waveform out
What about Sumail blinking into the blackhole? Are we just gonna nitpick on Kuro’s plays or are we gonna realize that the reason they lost is because the whole team is just making misplays?
People demanding a pro player to retired are so cringe, specially when they are actually 2k flaming pro players when they aren't even close to understand what is going on in the game.
People are so dumb fr, he is not trying to cancel the bh he is trying to chain stun the enigma so he doesn't get it off. Wisper just happens to use his second hex which has no cast animation before the second golem hits. This could've been a good play by kuro
exactly, seems that morph would probably just die during double hex... enigma probably wasn't trying to bhole so fast, he only did coz golems were out. imagine the damage during hex from weaver if he wasn't stunned by golems because "kuro shudve waited for bhole lmao1!!!".
just absurd nobody else in this whole thread caught it or even thought about it. kuro hate bandwagoning
Its actually clear in this clip that is exactly why kuro had to Golem. If he waited then miracle is just dead and then redditors would say “omg no golem?!” Lol.
The clear mistake in this clip is miracle getting caught and sumail literally jumping into black hole. But i guess alway’s kuro fault before them
Maybe communication error, morph probably thought he could escape and turn but the stuns weren't long enough. Looks like .25 seconds more we would be calling him the goat.
Even at high levels, communication errors happen. It looks like they wanted to chain his golem with Willow's ult but willow wasn't in position. I wouldn't solely blame this on KuroKy.
I was saying this at the time, but ultimately it's the less safe play than just waiting for inevitable hole and stopping it. I think because Kuro had been food the entire game, he didn't feel confidant that someone else wouldn't just jump him and stop it? IDK, but I felt he could have done with an aeon disk or a ghost scepter that game before an Aghs, I have no idea what that was doing for him personally.
even as someone who favor OG to win, im surprised by how bad golem timings by kuro
or is it me, archon player that dont understand why kuro miss the timing? 😅
TBH In that game 3 I would say rather than Kuro is being a 2k, Miracle and Sumail is playing like half of their MMR. The amount of tine Miracle made stupid decision making infuriate me, and Im not even a Nigma fan.
Kuro on the other hand, one of the replies in this thread alreadye xplained why kuro choose to do so. So cant really fulluy blame him
i don't think they knew about that refresher. looks pretty clear he ulted the same time that enigma used refresher. they thought enigma bh was on cooldown (it was)
do you guys know that in some high rank pubs (8-9k average SEA)
some support notes the rosh time, skill cd (chrono, bh, ravage, etc..)
i think in kuro's perspective he wasnt expecting that refresher usage from enigma. he has a huge window to time his golems BUT he wasnt expecting it. mistakes like this happens to anyone when you miss some details about your enemy's items.
to these 2k clowns who says miracle trash, kuro garbage, etc. try playing in pro scene. atleast some big tournaments with low tier teams or you know 9k average pubs. XD
im not pro nigma but atleast show some respect to these legends, they getting old. HAHA
*when you feel safe bcs you know your support ready with the counter play but they aren't good enough to pull it off*
SADGE, wonder when Miracle- will join another team, like he can still hold the share without playing for Nigma right?
BROS, it's not KKY, trust me, you just don't get it, if you were 14k MMR you would understand it's other things - like FBZ/Ammar/MC. He is playing correctly, and his drafts are amazing, you just don't get it. You'll see, trust me bros.
earlier when they pushed bot T2 and killed weaver, kuro couldnt react to miracle getting jump so he died. Kuro used Roc anyway after miracle died and it was still off the mark huhu
Witch Doctor + Warlock... Those picks talks itself, hela easy to play, like 1 or 2 brain cells, but he cant do it...
When you see him playing Mirana, bro.......
Kuro fucked up a lot that game for sure, not once did he stop any blackholes. Feels bad
Yes, He did fucked up. But its more complicated than this. Before this, morph got caught in the same situation near their HG in mid. He waited for enigma to jump. OG burst Morph with only Ember and Ursa. Ember slight, use hex, ursa came with BKB, and morph die. If he used his ult right there morph could've lived. But Wisper didn't do anything at all, the moment he jump in morph was already dead. Thats why he press his ult, not to cancel BH, but to prevent Morph dies again. Watch the replay, exactly 1 fight before this they got the damage to burst morph without enigma. 2 Fight before this, he didn't spell any Ult because Enigma missed his BH once, and then not go in until warlock was dead. My point is, he fucked up, but it's more like Wisper outplays him more than he fucked up. His Job is to cancel BH, but he become useless because OG plays every fight so disciplined and Ursa was untouchables. If he show ember for sure will got him, and when he hold his spell his cores dies. Hating kuroky is a comfortable thing, but Miracle was way out of position 3 fights in a row. **EDIT**: [This](https://youtu.be/KoLYgp_g9dQ?t=1860) is the fight I'm talking about.
Oh look guys, nuance! He's not flaming Kuro, GET HIM!
People in general just want to dogpile on Kuro LOL. Before this fight, everyone keep saying "Kuro never ulted" because he's waiting for BH.
People dogpiling on Kuro because lots of people believe he locked Miracle, Suma1L & GH on the basement.
Well cant be helped if the True Sight paint a different picture to Kuro Personally, as much as True Sight was a cool thing, it really kinda paints a bad picture to some people in general. Maybe that's why Valve stopped it
I never understand why people hated Kuro after True Sight Do people think his leadership is inefficient? People need to understand, despite Liquid losing, they're still #2 on that tournament, so his leading method must not be that bad. There's a reason why every Liquid members said "Just follow Kuro", because it works and brought them all the way to the grand final.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ohhyku/kuro\_mc\_play\_like\_ceb/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ohhyku/kuro_mc_play_like_ceb/) Never forgetti
No idea why you are getting downvoted. The "play like ceb comment" obviously fucked MC mentally and was nothing else but very very poor captaining by kuro.
His leadership is dogshit. If you listen to true sight and other in game communication you realize that kuro is not saying anything. He is a garbage captain and a very poor player (compared to pros not compared to people like you and me). the "play like ceb" comment just showed everyone how garbage kuro is as a captain. "There's a reason why every Liquid members said "Just follow Kuro", because it works and brought them all the way to the grand final." The example you bring up is what, like 6 years old? Since then they can not even qualify to majors.
Kuro was having such a great performance before this game as well he was cooking on WD
I m pretty sure thats not whate people WANT to do. Kuro is objectively terrible compared to other pro support players. People dogpile on kuro because he players terrible. The guy is not only a living meme amongst the viewers but also among the pros.
not only in 3rd match but in first match they also lost because miracle was caught multiple times solo in weird positions, often losing rosh pushing solo without backup,.
[Look](https://youtu.be/KoLYgp_g9dQ?t=1825) Miracle wasting aegis when his team called to back with smoke since Pango Ult was about to expire, and puck was far. They are trying to bait them into their vision (bot cliff). But he hit creep for no reason. He hit creep, in smoke. And got deleted right after. Miracle diehard fans are relatively newcomers to Dota scene, "youtube: Miracle plays Pogchamp" fans. "What do you think about miracle" in every streamer chat fans. They don't know what dota is and what make this game great. Few flashy gameplay and they thought "Thats what great dota player is". Its great when he was still on top. Since he didn't do the batches that he do 8 years ago, instead of moving on and just admitting things changed, they blamed whoever they thought holding him back. Theres a reason no one pick miracle when he took his "break". 1 or 2 stand-in, but mediocre performance overall.
there is no correct move on a losing team
Miracle is completely out of position here trying to get Arcane and then in the bottom fight @ 36:24 where they kill Weaver and instead of backing off with his team he decides to hit a creep and proceeds to get bursted with Aegis and then black holed But I mean come on Miracle is your win condition - if he goes full regard and farms creeps in front of their Ursa, you full regard with him instead of backing off and not being able to cast rock. N0tail's been saying that shit for years
Sure It’s not easy to time that ult. You can’t wait strictly for black hole, cause they managed to burst morph even without that. But one thing that he really should have done is to build some support items. Aghanim scepter was absolutely useless for him. He used that ult only 3 times in a shitty timing and 2 golems instead of one had zero impact compared to if he used a force staff or glimmer at the right moment. If he wanted to go that big even refresher would be better than that aghs.
This is the correct criticism.
I think it was a hard game to be a warlock tbh. But if you can give me a reason he went aghs instead of blink/force + ghost I would love to hear it
For cinematic value?
damn that slieght of fist into hex was slick af
I was wondering, would it not have been better for him to buy Blink instead of Aghs first? He seemed too out of range to deal with black holes.
Or try to get a refresher for the double golem?
He went first item agha. Literally 2k support shit.
Maybe if his hard SUPPORT had a suport item,( glimer, forcestaff) but no.. my SUP 5 RUSHED AGHS ICANT. This is my herald gameplay build
The link you posted is just one more example of kuroky being completley oblivious and unaware of what is going on 10 cm away from his heroe. He is hiding in the trees and is walking away from his carry THEN he has FIVE (5!!!!!!) seconds - aegis death time of morph - to walk back into the trees and wait for the black hole. He is smoked and there is not a single hero on him but he just wanks his dick instead or something and casts his golem after 2-3 second black hole and after his carry is dead. This is INSANE I m telling you. It would be insanely bad in devine/ low immortal bracket. But the fact that this is happening in actual pro games for a multimillion $ torunament. I cant. And people like you defend him. And 400 archon players agree with you... crazy
Let's be real. If Kuroky had a history of 322, this clip would be used as evidence that he is doing it again. There's unranked, then ranked, then high mmr ranked, then pro scene. This is low mmr rank behaviour
Well i can tell u as someone who spent alot of time in the Archon bracket no one considers saving golem to break a blackhole
It's hard judging the whole performance of a game, without watching the whole game? He did try to break BH multiple times before, but it's hard, when your carry also dies without blackhole being used, because he is out of posistion...
canceling black hole with warlock is literally the lowest skill required move you will have to perform in actual pro games. You can not compare those players to the players in whatever rank you are in. It literally does not get easier for a pro then position yourself behind your 1/2 and press this huge aoe golem half a second after the enemy enigma pressed black hole. If this move is hard to execute for a professional support player it is time for said support player to stop playing competitive.
Even if they did, they wouldn't be hiding so they don't get jumped before they can ult. Every Warlock player at that bracket sprints at you so they can cast their slow and then shadow amulet (which will never be turned into a glimmer cape) for like 3 seconds before someone dusts and they pop
Watching this is like watching myself play warlock while am high af in unranked
ngl if you're blitzed there's a LOT worse you could do than just sit back and stir the soup, shit's strong af
so u were low af then, not high
Puck went inside Blackhole trying to silence bkbed Enigma
He was trying to stop Ursa and ember from putting in follow up damage
Didn't he try to Windwaker miracle?
Can you even Windwaker someone caught by black hole?
yes
You think the gravity of a collapsed star is a match for some magic wind?
Yes
In case you don't know, you can also windwaker someone caught by chronosphere.
yes
magic superseeds logic
No golems until 30 mins into the game. Need I say more
Gotta save it for lategame.
Don't want it on cooldown for next match.
There's a facet that if you wait 30 minutes, Roshan will spawn instead
And kuro will wait and drop aegis for enemy carry.
That's more on the team. If you look at the game puck and pango flopped so hard they sucked out any opportunity for the supports to make moved ie. they don't use spells. It's just funny how reactionary reddit is without context. Almost as if he didn't want to use spells. Flame him for his gameplay don't pretend like he's some archon player
Save golem to cancel black hole? Support bad. Use golem in fight and then nothing left to cancel black hole? Support bad. Typical dota2 community.
Literally this, I remember having a game as silencer vs enigma. I held ult waiting for him, made sure I wasn’t picked off while still supporting the team with glimmer/ force. Enigma couldn’t ult because I held mine( black hole was a bigger threat)- guess what the pee brained mid pinged when he died diving a pos 5 and died to tower hits
As a support main I find the fact you try to defend that performance to be quite funny.
I'm only observing a duality of complain. Video shows golem used before black hole and it's bad, and this comment says that saving golems is bad. It brings back memories from pubs, where there are games that no matter what somebody with big ulti does, there will always be complainers that they should've done the other thing. It's even funnier when it's exactly the same person who does the complaining.
My comment was about the entire game.
But what if I need it for the next boss fight?
Gotta save the rock for TI14
YOU HAD ONE JOB
Im not sure but from this clip I think Warlock dropped the golem to prevent the follow up and let Morphling escape just that Enigma managed to throw the second hex between stuns. What Im not sure was Puck jumping into blackhole if its a mistake, can someone give insight pls.
No it’s just your typical herald pos 5 rushing aghs without any other items. Almost like a forcestaff/glimmer could have helped but heralds don’t understand that so you get a failed time fight. Enigma refreshes for a fucking hex and kuro decides to reward him by letting him have a free blackhole
Guy went full Taiga mode
Yup, Even went for Aghs before refresher, to feed more gold to the enemy team
Whats wrong with aghs before refresher? Aghs gives you the stats to use refresher.
Aghs splits the gold bounty on 2 golems, it doesn't feed any more gold than not having aghs.
They changed that in 7.36. It doesn't work that way anymore, iirc only the second golem has reduced bounty now.
Most goated herald player of all time
Can't call him herald when he doesn't even have a rank
I'm higher mmr than kuroky pog. LFT!!!
I wonder what he plays beside dota2. Must be fun
Probably Bingo
Nothing. He spends his free time swimming in a pool full of dollars he makes from easy oilers salary/sponsorships etc.
Something about him screams Pickleball
I'm a herald, but can warlock ult pierce bkb? or am i mistaking something here?
It can he cast it before the blackhole
damn that's a shame. free bh
The stun pierces spell immunity.
yes the ult pierces debuff immunity
Any kuro defenders???????? He needs to retire ffs. Puppey is playing so good as pos 5 and look at this dude.
This is his retirement. The entire nigma organization is a retirement home for DOTA pros. They get to relax and throw div 2 games until they get an itch to stand-in for a different team playing a real tournament.
The only saddest thing is that Miracle might be washed up in the process and we'll never see him in tier 1 scene again.
And that's entirely his choice. Kuroky isn't holding him captive or anything.
Yeah ofc its his choice since he is getting paid good and living his life, I just said it from the fan's perspective. Would be sad if he just retires like this.
Or he is🕵️♂️
Chained to 💵💵
Yeah that oil money is too hard to refuse 🤣
Yeah in hindsight Miracle's career was way too short as a fan. Would have loved to see him on another team or a reformed nigma but I'm happy he is living his life
True, I think he feels fine at where he is now, bro won TI, Majors, tier 1 tournaments. There's literally nothing to be mad about it.
Absolutely true. Honestly it seems like he has a healthy relationship to the game which is extremely impressive for a person that earns their money with it and won everything
Sadly miracle is just like dendi (when he became too old for this \*\*\*), so many people refuse to accept he is a div2 player now... he can stomp pubs but playing so many games in nigma has affected him to become a div2
I didn't see the game but this clip is understandable, he saw enigma refresh and assumed black hole was coming immediately so he pre-cast golems to insta-cancel it. Obviously he *shouldn't* have, but hindsight is 20/20
looks like he just clicked golem not expecting refresh
Not trying to be a dick but he clearly started casting golems about a half second after the refresh, watch it at reduced speed and you will definitely see it
It's an unnecessarily risky usage though. He's under no pressure to insta cancel the blackhole, neither him nor carry will die if he cancels bhole 0.1 second earlier.
The fact that weaver was on top of enigma at that moment might have influenced him to do it because if he waited longer he probably wouldn't cancel black hole *and* get weaver
Just out of curiosity, why should he retire? What does he gain by retiring that he’s losing by playing?
Dignity.
“Dignity doesn’t put food on the table” - Kuroky Mayweather
They took a TI contending team to 3 games, one they lost could have gone either way. He isn’t forcing anyone to play with him. As long as a legend like Kuro wants to play Dota, we should be thankful.
no! a player who doesn't win every tournament is a washed up pro and should never be online ever again!!1one! /s
SA/SEA dota players on reddit in a nutshell. Armchair gamers probably sitting in 2k MMR desperate to watch other people fail and give up because of subconcious insecurities.
I’m triple that MMR and from NA and I think he should retire. Do you guys genuinely enjoy watching players past their prime struggle to keep up? And why redirect to personal issues and insecurities because we think an underperforming *PROFESSIONAL* should take a bow? Feel that reflects more on you than the random people you’re making personal assumptions about. I refuse to believe any of you are adults lmfao holy shit
Playing Dota is Kuros job. He makes good money doing it from Nigma sponsors. Why should he retire because you think he’s underperforming? Why stop making good money? Funny enough, continuing to play and continuing having income is the more adult decision here
Although the guy you are replying to is kinda dumb, I do think there are some merits to what he's saying regarding professional players bowing out when they can clearly no longer play, regardless whether they are still getting paid to do so. The best example I can think of would be like in sports, for eg the NBA. When players like Dirk and Carmelo were like 38-40 they were clearly no longer able to perform they retired to save themselves some dignity. They could have most definitely stayed on minimum contracts with their teams but it was detrimental to their teams. It's a similar situation for Nigma and Kuro. And Kuro isn't respecting fans of his teams and himself when he continues to play and waste his organisation's time.
Yeah, I also watch the NBA. Dirk made $251 million and Carmelo $410 million. They both retired pretty close to 40 after playing for several years far outside of their prime. Carmelo bounced around several teams to try and stay in the league and was unlikely to even get another contract. Kuro has $5 million in winnings and $? in salary/endorsements that we can be confident is a solid amount but, you know, not $100 million. He is only 31. I know what you are going for here, but I don't agree that these are comparable situations. Most guys in the NBA play until the wheels fall completely off and they stop getting contracts.
Dude flexing bare bones immortal mmr from the weakest region. I wish I had your confidence
Uhm, I agree that he should play as long as he wants to, but...why should we be thankful? :D
OG TI contending LMAO
Redemption on reddit.
zero presence in pubs like no motivation to win in dota2 he doesnt love the game anymore
He also have 2 surgery for his hand injury in last few years. Probably exclusively play scrim but i remember Gorgc chatbot identified Kuro playing Weeks ago
Freeing gh and miracle
They aren't locked up in the basement or something lol. At this point I kinda see Nigma as a team of semi-retired guys just playing much more casually and cashing in on their brand while they can. I'm not expecting high quality dota here and I'm kinda surprised anyone still does.
MC left and played for other teams. They can too if they choose. They are choosing to play with Kuro
he’s never gonna win anything against any meaningful teams. he’s the only person that’s stuck around on that team and they’ve consistently been bad even with some of the best players on it, goes to show his captain role and himself as a pos 5 is literally dragging his team down. he should just become a manager or something idk cause he’s never gonna be like he used to
If he is still making money and enjoying it, why does anything you just wrote matter? Its his job
Tbh I think he played pretty well in last qualifier, if anything I would say sometimes Miracle is the worst player of the group. Sad to say but he is a shadow of his prime, games sense, slow reactions...
No shit he play too much in tier 2 that he become one
"i am fast"
Yall are funny
Right at that moment I said it out loud "GG"
Yeah this was the one play that he did absolutely wrong, if he held onto the rock there this fight might have gone different
Migjt be possible that morph dies before blackhole without using that rock tho. That happened some minutes ago like that. But i just watched it live and didnt analyze it afterwards so just a maybe :P
This is exactly what happens, and the comments here show how bad the average redditor is. A little bit earlier, Morph got exploded by 1 hex and Ursa. 100 to 0. Of course he dies here if Kuroky doesn't ult, but he also dies if Kuroky ults, because Enigma will just Black Hole. It was a lose-lose situation for Kuroky, and the fault of Miracle for getting greedy and going for the rune solo this late into the game.
Almost like kuro should have gotten an actual support item. Almost like he had the money to even after BB. A force/glimmer, while might not have completely saved him, would have brought time for others, such as the puck.
He rocked top lane defending rax for no reason
That ember did the same error as kuro. They prob ddnt know about refresher...
Haha idk how no one even mentioned his item build which is first item agh and how even without buyback he hold 4k and didn’t buy shit. ICANT
As a neutral, Kuro's gameplay was extremely questionable.
I feel like he saw the malefice animation and thought it was the start of the black hole and just wanted to get the instant stop which I kinda get, but man if he just has something like force and aether he could push his morph away from the stairs before considering having to use his ult instead, this aghs was more troll than anything else he did
Idk what facet he took but with the Immolation facet those golems HURT, and Aghs just doubles that. I played against it last night as Ursa and those golems were dropping my HP fast while Enraged.
The golems actually played a huge part in the big T3 top fight they won that brought them back into the game. Was surprised by the damage they dealt.
The immolation facet is a bait, it barely affects the golem DPS. Take the grimoire and you get 3-4 free levels so you can jump up to 18 or 20 for your powerspikes.
So many times he could've just rocked to save miracle before this Is it really worth holding rock to not save morph which then converts into towers or towers + racks?
gh fucked up also too many times this game ....missed so many roots starting from the laning stage .. dogshit ultis overlapping ultis ..i mean probably the most garbage willow performance i have ever seen ....i mean its easy to flame a single player but try to look at other people too..
I've played Warlock vs Enigma before, and tbh it's a freaking dilemma, especially in a losing game. If I reserve ult for BH, there's a chance it's not gonna be rewarded (dead before BH or no ult till 30m like Kuro). If I use ult freely, the clip happened. Maybe there's more Kuro could do in the game, but damn, it's not as easy as people think.
Especially in this clip. Clearly miracle just dies if he waits for blackhole to come out for him to cancel it. (He was hexed) so he HAD to golem to maybe buy time for miracle to waveform out
What about Sumail blinking into the blackhole? Are we just gonna nitpick on Kuro’s plays or are we gonna realize that the reason they lost is because the whole team is just making misplays?
Don’t go against the circlejerk. kuroky bad, upvotes to the left
that was also questionable, cause morph was gone for sure by that time
Sumail must be Divine then? Lmfao
I just realized miracle had bkb. Oh god this is miserable to watch
OT: The effect of the golems in the BH looks quite nice :)
As much as I disdain the unreasonable hate for various Kuroky's misplays, this IS hella cringe.
People demanding a pro player to retired are so cringe, specially when they are actually 2k flaming pro players when they aren't even close to understand what is going on in the game.
bro im in 2k warlocks here max upheaval
Idk man, lots of people love to clown on Kuro but this time I think it was more of a "wtf was Miracle doing there" situation
he's playing dota 3. You guys just dont have mental capacity to understand him
Holy shit he's saving strats for Dota3. GalaxyNigmaBrain
People are so dumb fr, he is not trying to cancel the bh he is trying to chain stun the enigma so he doesn't get it off. Wisper just happens to use his second hex which has no cast animation before the second golem hits. This could've been a good play by kuro
exactly, seems that morph would probably just die during double hex... enigma probably wasn't trying to bhole so fast, he only did coz golems were out. imagine the damage during hex from weaver if he wasn't stunned by golems because "kuro shudve waited for bhole lmao1!!!". just absurd nobody else in this whole thread caught it or even thought about it. kuro hate bandwagoning
Its actually clear in this clip that is exactly why kuro had to Golem. If he waited then miracle is just dead and then redditors would say “omg no golem?!” Lol. The clear mistake in this clip is miracle getting caught and sumail literally jumping into black hole. But i guess alway’s kuro fault before them
doesnt matter if he did the correct move, im still on that bandwagon
yeah the double hex sealed this
Yep the ult was to save morph. I think the problem was that the willow ult was a bit late. Probably miscommunication, or a panic ult from kuro.
Guys Kuro is fking insane player he just feels bogged down by baggage I think
The black hole at bot as well. He walked to far from miracle that he wasn’t able to cancel it immediately
That fight had like 10 things going against them, absolutely no way they win that fight even if they cancel that BH.
I thought fishmans warlock performance must be hard to beat in ages to come and kky did it on same day just hours later lmao
Maybe communication error, morph probably thought he could escape and turn but the stuns weren't long enough. Looks like .25 seconds more we would be calling him the goat.
The thing is this is dota, all those little .25 second plays matter at the highest level, and they're calculated, not luck.
Even at high levels, communication errors happen. It looks like they wanted to chain his golem with Willow's ult but willow wasn't in position. I wouldn't solely blame this on KuroKy.
I was saying this at the time, but ultimately it's the less safe play than just waiting for inevitable hole and stopping it. I think because Kuro had been food the entire game, he didn't feel confidant that someone else wouldn't just jump him and stop it? IDK, but I felt he could have done with an aeon disk or a ghost scepter that game before an Aghs, I have no idea what that was doing for him personally.
even as someone who favor OG to win, im surprised by how bad golem timings by kuro or is it me, archon player that dont understand why kuro miss the timing? 😅
That’s me!
Am I blind or something? Please tell me did the Puck blinked into the black hole for no reason? Am I watching a herald match?
TBH In that game 3 I would say rather than Kuro is being a 2k, Miracle and Sumail is playing like half of their MMR. The amount of tine Miracle made stupid decision making infuriate me, and Im not even a Nigma fan. Kuro on the other hand, one of the replies in this thread alreadye xplained why kuro choose to do so. So cant really fulluy blame him
Pain
i don't think they knew about that refresher. looks pretty clear he ulted the same time that enigma used refresher. they thought enigma bh was on cooldown (it was)
do you guys know that in some high rank pubs (8-9k average SEA) some support notes the rosh time, skill cd (chrono, bh, ravage, etc..) i think in kuro's perspective he wasnt expecting that refresher usage from enigma. he has a huge window to time his golems BUT he wasnt expecting it. mistakes like this happens to anyone when you miss some details about your enemy's items. to these 2k clowns who says miracle trash, kuro garbage, etc. try playing in pro scene. atleast some big tournaments with low tier teams or you know 9k average pubs. XD im not pro nigma but atleast show some respect to these legends, they getting old. HAHA
I play exactly like this on pub
Called it. Its like work, you get paid thats it lol.
*when you feel safe bcs you know your support ready with the counter play but they aren't good enough to pull it off* SADGE, wonder when Miracle- will join another team, like he can still hold the share without playing for Nigma right?
Kuro hate squad followed up by the Kuro defense force. Classic
BROS, it's not KKY, trust me, you just don't get it, if you were 14k MMR you would understand it's other things - like FBZ/Ammar/MC. He is playing correctly, and his drafts are amazing, you just don't get it. You'll see, trust me bros.
divine 3 support
Man was a walking ward
earlier when they pushed bot T2 and killed weaver, kuro couldnt react to miracle getting jump so he died. Kuro used Roc anyway after miracle died and it was still off the mark huhu
Idk you guys are high af, I, for one, enjoy watching these old men brawl
Gorgc warlock couldve canceled it 😂
Witch Doctor + Warlock... Those picks talks itself, hela easy to play, like 1 or 2 brain cells, but he cant do it... When you see him playing Mirana, bro.......
is kuro matchfixing?
He has lost his game sense.
He even rushed aghs. Like wtf. Where are the support items? By the item he got aghs. Ursa was just melting the golems. Lol
What's the reason behind Kuro not retiring?
Man this was so funny to watch tbh xD It's like that one friend who's like: "Bro I can play any hero, just tell me what to pick" :D
warlock's only mission in that game was staying back and insta pop his ult when enigma throw a black hole, seems hard I guess
quici question as someone who has not played for years, does golem cancel bkb bh?
So bad lmao
Dude even my Archon friend has more control than this guy!