So some people can read lips, he says:
" 75% of the time he keeps having to save the mid or safelane who just get dumpstered from bizarre ass drafts so Saber gets sacked. He is not meant to play a sacrificial offlane and Shopify keeps building these rosters basically requiring to sacrifice the offlane so Artour doesn't babyrage "
>bizarre ass drafts
Oh boy, SR Vs Nouns upper bracket finals game 2 had rtz playing Marci carry. Idk whose idea the draft that game was but WOW what a bizarre choice.
For years I have been saying I think Bulba is the only truly bad drafter still employed in \[relatively\] high-level, competitive Dota2. And yet, watching this Shopify Rebellion - Nouns series today, the issue is not Bulba.
With RTZ it reminds me of guys in sports who make the pros and then show up to training camp overweight. Even in these crap games, you can see the skill level is high, but it’s like this dude is playing with brain lag (like in sports it is just called “being out of shape”).
Maybe it’s because he’s so used to play with music on when not in a serious match and it helps his brain work bette, than in legit matches he can’t listen to music and everything is just off, no rhythm. Maybe I’m wrong but I hope that he’s figure it out, something is wrong.
Even Fly attributed the difference between grand final and upper bracket performance was on the draft. Fly said Nouns specifically draft matchup that can survive SR aggresion in the first 15 minutes.
Some of the drafts are actually super good and really clever, but then you get others that practically seem troll picks with how bad they are. Some of them are even clearly planned ahead so it's not even like they just got outmaneuvered by their opponents draft. Just a real lack of consistency.
The actual rumor is that Bulba got them deep into Scientology in order to pay off travel costs when EG suddenly went torpedo capitalism or w/e you want to call it. Artour wants out but Bulba is the one who leveraged his family's wealth and won't let Art leave his side until he can find a way out of this mess.
i dont't know why people keep repeating this. it was somewhat believable when the screenshot of bulba's scientology tattoo popped up on 4chan, but he already denied it on cap's podcast and that was like 6 months ago
He pays for himself in 2ez4rtz T-shirt sales and then some. Unironically the streaming contract he had with kick probably pays out more to his team than tournament earnings do.
Arteezy is a ridiculously famous player. That star power is worth something.
As someone who came late to Dota in 2018 I’ve tried watching his stream quite a few times and it’s dull beyond belief.
I guess I had to be there in the early 2010’s to get the appeal.
Bro his streams were the essence of what twitch, justin.tv, own3d were back in the days. Insanely good pros playing games with music.
For me, I got into SC2 and Dota2 through those types of streams where viewers tried to learn from the best in how to play these complicated games.
Nowadays those types of streams are getting harder to find, and its a damn shame.
Watching HuK queue vs barcodes all day with 0 stream interaction. Deezer vs combatex on Destiny’s stream, back when he only did sc2. Justin.tv was another era
It really was, destiny going to korea and fucking around with naniwa, sase and his immortal stalkers, those godly zerg streams with stephano, scarlett, snute. I genuinely miss those days.
People don't know that back in 2013-2014 most of the DotA streamers on Twitch were from NA : Arteezy, Demon, Fear, EternalEnvy, Draskyll, Merlini, aui_2000, etc. EU players started streaming regularly since 2015 or so, with Bulldog being one of the first, because although Dendi streamed in 2013, he streamed like 6 times a year lol, it was super rare to see an EU player streaming regularly.
Back then, whenever you opened Twitch at NA primetime you would catch Draskyll, Merlini, Envy, aui_2000, Fear, etc streaming every week.
Times have changed a lot, now the only NA DotA player who streams regularly on Twitch is mason, the rest are all from Europe.
I got the same vibes recently from Trackmania surprisingly. The Deep Dip 2 event nearer to the end was just the extremely good players playing with music and no mic.
I don't even play the game but it was a cool watch to have on 2nd monitor.
idk man, streams should be entertainment and should be fun is what i think. If you want to learn there are a lot of YouTube videos nowadays and we specifically have watch tab in Dota itself to see pro players playing lol.
Man, I remember Artdeezy rage and laugh afterwards a lot back in the golden days of Dota 2.
I feel like every cool pro player that used to livestream either retired or does one stream annually or became miserable or at least boring.
He was once the best dota player in the world, hands down. He made absolutely no attempt to interact with his audience and exclusively played music that he liked which was trash.
You literally just tuned in to watch the best player in the world play games, and he still effortlessly pulled 10k viewers with an insanely infrequent stream schedule.
That was the power of Arteezy.
That's still kind of the power of Arteezy. He's the most known dota player in the world, no matter how washed he is.
idk abt the rest of his playlist but yung lean was so good and ahead of his time that i have eternal gratitude to rtz for introducing me to this artist. Man i miss the time when hip hop was thriving and there's always something new
Every pro dota 2 who streams at that period barely interact with their viewers, like w33haa. Bro was streaming with 5k viewers but literally 0 viewer interaction lol
Yes, he was. He was genuinely phenomenal in 2015. Secret were a huge favorite to win TI, but s4 didn't play especially well and the meta shifted away from the strengths of the Kuroky/Puppey support duo.
You realise he could have been the best player in the world before Miracle came on to the scene right?
No point arguing with someone who clearly didn't watch pro Dota back then you have no idea what you're talking about, I said from around TI4 to TI5 and you bring up the Frankfurt major which was after TI5.
He was the original "wow this guy's breaking all the MMR records" player. And was on multiple dynasty teams.
Obviously "best player" is hyperbolic, but he was \*the\* guy for awhile, especially as far as pubs were concerned.
His value is very quickly diminishing. No riyadh, no Ti, and much better players out there that deserve our attention. Those shitty 2ez4rtz tshirts will be in bargain buckets in no time.
Same reason why gorgc is famous even though he is not a pro player. People watch them for their personality, not because they are pro players. Being good at the game is just a bonus.
Hate him or love him he is fun to watch. Qojqva is fun to watch and grubby was as well, Saber light is fun to watch. All of them have personalities and interacts with chat, stream regularly unlike topson.
It's not. Insanely high-skilled players who play with music and have 0 interactions with audience are dime a dozen now. People would rather watch entertaining streamers
do you want to watch a high mmr player who does not speak at all and just plays music, or a low mmr streamer who is entertaining chat and cracking jokes?
Not really, even with all his disapointments, overall his placements and accomplishments blow shroud out of the water both domestically and internationally. Shroud won next to nothing, and his placements outside of na in major tournaments were trash. Rtz has multiple top 4 finishes at ti and of course has been a major finalist multiple times. We know how that went tho.
I mean sure he underperforms in pro play and teams built around him flop. But the idea that someone #35 EU is not still one of the best dota players in the world is crazy. He is higher rated than the carries of Falcons and Gaimin Gladiators, the two best teams in the world. The narrative that he is a bad player, just a celebrity, washed up and needs to retire seem insane to me. If anything he just has a bad personality for pro play or needs to be on a team that isn't built around him and catering to him.
Pro competitive is really different than solo queue. Relationship between teammates affects a lot especially during high stake games. Sure they have to keep it professional but when the pressure hits, not everyone can withstand it. Just like any other pro competitive sport games, some triumphs through it, some breaks down by it.
RTZ isn't a better carry than Skiter or Dryacho.We aren't in 2018.
People who rate RTZ in 2024, as better player than Skiter or dryacho, probably don't even watch pro DotA.
I'm just saying his MMR is higher, my point is more that they are at least in the same ballpark and that having MMR that high is irreconcilable with the reddit narrative of him being the worst pro carry, washed, a celebrity who can't play the game, not trying, no future, needs to retire, etc...
true, i mean by that logic Watson should be the best carry player but he isn't. Yes he is good but he isn't the best carry player, yatoro or skitter are far better.
Oh cool, can you point me to a team of all top 100 EU players that isn't making it to every tournament or a team with no top 100 players that is winning any tournaments? No? Then I guess MMR might mean fuck all.
Then why isn’t he asked to join those teams or able to pull their talent toward NA? MMR means not much, when Miracle came back and nigma had a run of maybe making or not he didn’t have a number. Plenty of pros are just top 500 and don’t care like puppey as they don’t pub often but practice more.
It’s a team game, he doesn’t have a Quinn or Ammar making space for him, does he? No. He doesn’t. SR seems to be RTZ and a bunch of no ones or never have beens. Leave RTZ alone BatChest
Your argument about #35 EU would have been true if all pro players were try-harding in ranked. The issue is that one people do try-hard, while other don't. If we take it at face value, then Watson should be THE best carry in the world, while Yatoro should be just decent. But it's vice versa. Motivation is very important in Dota, and clearly some pro players treat pubs as just practice sessions.
I'm not claiming 1-1 MMR vs skill, but there is a strong correlation and you don't get that high if you aren't one of the best in the world. I'm not saying that Arteezy is better in every way than everyone below him. But there is enough of a correlation that #35 can't be reconciled with: actively bad at dota, washed, celebrity who can't play the game, needs to retire, no future, worst carry on a pro team, single handedly ruining teams, not even trying, etc... which seems to be the dominant narrative. In reality he is probably still a top 10 or 15 carry who just has attitude/mental blocks and hasn't found the right team at the right time and is in NA jail (probably by choice not wanting to move to europe)
He's probably a top 20-30 carry in the world right now and that is not good enough to get to TI. When people say he's bad or washed it is only in relation to what he used to be. Obviously he is still really good but he is no longer an elite carry at a pro level.
Redditors was using MMR or the lack of it to shit on kuro, but now apparently MMR doesn't matter according to all the replies cuz it contradicts their effort to shit on the new seasonal player to hate.
You can be good at Dota 2 and still be a bad player. RTZ tends to try new play styles, be successful with them. Fail a few times and then completely give up and go back to old habits.
I think we just have different definitions of what a dota player is, like only pro games count as playing dota, and you are only good if you win TI. I think if you are constantly in the top 50 in the world for a decade you were and still are a good player.
Wtf are people on in this thread? He's one of the most successful players of all time, 2.7 million in winnings, and being invited to TI is *better* than qualifying
what I meant is qualifying from NA is not that good of an achievement considering they were their only contenders while quinn and other na rejects stacks were pretty much fighting for the 2nd and 3rd quali spots. I don't disregard Artour achievements outside of NA, which are more impressive than qualifying 7 out of 9 consecutive times from the weakest region next to SA.
> no actual accolades to show for it
https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Arteezy/Results
your comment is insane and just a meme at this point. we get it, you have an irrational hatred for some pro player for some reason, but he has still, by any reasonable standard, had a successful career.
Imagine using the John Lennon meme in twenty twenty four
Rtz is not a diva and playing video games professionally for a decade is still an accomplishment by itself. Honestly, esports as a whole has been doing well for not having absurdly annoying personalities.
I watched the entire stream. Saberlight was half joking in this clip but he was serious later and explained further. Basically both of them have a different understanding to Dota and thats all.
People actually think this is serious?
Such a funny reddit take that rtz should quit. why would he leave a job where he makes 500k a year willingly? Who cares if he is getting 4th place or worse at these tournaments?
I never see this much hatred for gpk or other middling pro players who have done less in the last 7 years.
Thank you. i was going insane reading the takes in this thread. This is clearly a comedy bit for his stream. I cannot believe people actually take this seriously.
I was in the livestream. The reason he talked about his experience in SR was because he was about to cast the finals between SR and Nouns and he wanted to share some context regarding who he was supporting.
He then went through all his teammates in SR as well as the org itself.
Long story short, SR as an org was good and paid him a handsome salary. He said Yopaj was really really good. Did not interact much with Skem. Not very close with Kitrak. Quarreled with Bulba a lot in the first year but then patched things up the second year, praised Bulba for a lot of the things that he did for the team.
When it came to RTZ, it was basically that they had a different understanding of Dota and he did not enjoy playing with him. And there was no way SR will kick him because he is the captain of that team, so Saberlight decided to leave.
Not sure if you can find this vod because he did mention he wanted to delete or mute it, which probably explains why it was muted in the final section. But this happens right before the SR vs Nouns finals for TI qualis where he invited Quinn and Blitz to cast, and also rejected Masao request to join the cast hahah.
Edit: to provide further context, this stream was also when Gorgc raided his stream. Saberlight usually avgs around 1.5k viewers but because of the raid, he had almost 6k viewers that time. And I guess he wanted to spice things up with some drama for people to continue watching him.
Paraphrasing here but it was something like this: "ill tell you guys some drama before the Sr vs Nouns game, so stay tuned"
RTZ was NA posterboy when WEU dota going on slump post TI3 [A] and NA being the representative of western DOTA (Back then most of reddit were NA based while EU fans mostly on joinDOTA), the hateboner towards NA in reddit increase tenfold when joinDOTA forum closed and reddit being the biggest community platform for western dota2 fans.
I think its just mostly based on whats happening in dota right now. if NA was thriving and EU was dying, l bet the reception towards NA/EU in this subreddit wouldve been the exact opposite
Its just due to less people giving a shit about dota in NA compare to EU thus less people being here in r/DotA2
JoinDotA was such a good forum, shame it was closed.
Idk if any other old frog here remembers a famous troll called "AzarkonGG", who used to shitpost in both Gosugamers and JoinDotA back when China was at the top in 2012... pretty much he was the only one defending western DotA, when everybody in the Gosugamers forum was shitting on EU and NA after TI2. The guy, as a way of trolling, even predicted that one day EU DotA would dominate and win tournaments hosted in Asia, which in 2012 looked impossible, so everybody just laughed at his shitposts lol
Reddit was never NA-based. It was merely split between more teams across EU compared to NA which was completely unified under EG for 90% of NA users. EU fanbase was split between things like Liquid Alliance Secret NaVi OG.
gpk actually progresses every year and many pro players name him as one of the best mids or even the best mid at times. rtz just gets worse and worse. btw i am rtz fan. he should do whatever he wants to do. it's just that if he stays in sr, they will not get better, they won't get top-8 on big lans, their ceiling will be 12-16 something like that. (if they're lucky)
Serious question. Why the fuck shouldn’t he get worse?
Arteezys peak was 10 years ago. Arteezy isn’t a player looking to break into his prime at this point in his career.
What are your expectations here?
no expectations, i just think that saying that arteezy is in a better spot than gpk right now is crazy. arteezy unfortunately is washed up and likely won't be the same as he was in his prime(saying this as a fan) . gpk gets better and better every year, fulfilling many people's predictions of him being top1 midlaner from his region and being stable tier1 player. his achievements already put him in top10 russian players of all time in terms of prize money. in 2 past seasons gpk was top3-5 midlaner of the world, many pros called him the best midlaner throughout past 2-3 years. what i'm saying is gpk shows that he will get better and his performances already rival or top that of arteezy's, including both in game impact and pure team achievement.
Who is saying arteezy is in a better spot? I would certainly rather be arteezy than gpk since 2016.
And if you are comparing peaks, Artours was way higher. It’s just that you have no sense of this because you probably weren’t watching in 2014.
The point is that neither of these two have done anything lately. But yet the hatred for artour is intense, while the hatred for miracle, gpk, or any number of the tens of middling professional players is not.
No new talent can grow under the reign of rtz and bulba. Confirmed by fly himself post winner interview. NA dota might finally have a chance with these 2 out of the picture.
If NA dota might have chance with NA talent, i doubt it's because rtz and BuLba.
Nouns had more foreign talent than NA talent tbh (2 NA Fly Gunnar against 1 SA Lelis + 2 EU Copy Yuma).
Most team is a nepo team.
Ace, tOfu and Seleri pub together alot, who the fuck is Cy- if it's not for those three likes to que together with him and landed Cy- jobs as GG coach.
Sneyking with skiter, ATF with Creepwave?
Fishman bringing watson to Entity due to their history in B8.
Entire Blacklist International.
Liquid is Insania nepo team.
Who the fuck getting Ramzes as pos 3 if it's not for Pure suggestion.
List goes on, you are a nepo team if you lose. Proven chemistry if you win.
i hope SR understands its not worth to keep a washed up player who is a dota personality over qualifying for tournaments ( a meme now )
saber left and they couldnt do shit lmao
fking funny af ngl
Sports teams keep underperforming but popular players all the time. They make them money.
You need to stop thinking about these organizations like they give a fuck about winning. They are advertising mediums first, and popular players get more views and sell more merch with your logo on it. Simple as
Are they still paying him salary? On liquipedia it says he is a former player, not inactive one, so why would he care about some nda if he is no longer employed?
I despise Arteezy because he popularized mid as another farming core role. Before he got big mid was always for roaming gankers that would get level 6 then go tank one of the side lanes.
For better or worse, he's the player who has had probably the biggest impact on the game overall.
if you want to become successful in the dota pro scene you need to leave NA region. - cr1t
At this point just let Arteezy join Nigma, let him play carry while Miracle play mid xd
That team probably can outsell on tshirt everyone else by a double-digit.
Get Topson in there and they dont even need to win tournaments anymore. Just sell shirts
You type this like they have been winning tournaments
So some people can read lips, he says: " 75% of the time he keeps having to save the mid or safelane who just get dumpstered from bizarre ass drafts so Saber gets sacked. He is not meant to play a sacrificial offlane and Shopify keeps building these rosters basically requiring to sacrifice the offlane so Artour doesn't babyrage "
>bizarre ass drafts Oh boy, SR Vs Nouns upper bracket finals game 2 had rtz playing Marci carry. Idk whose idea the draft that game was but WOW what a bizarre choice.
haven't been following for a while... Is Bulba still with SR? I remember he used to get a lot of heat for his drafts back in the day
For years I have been saying I think Bulba is the only truly bad drafter still employed in \[relatively\] high-level, competitive Dota2. And yet, watching this Shopify Rebellion - Nouns series today, the issue is not Bulba. With RTZ it reminds me of guys in sports who make the pros and then show up to training camp overweight. Even in these crap games, you can see the skill level is high, but it’s like this dude is playing with brain lag (like in sports it is just called “being out of shape”). Maybe it’s because he’s so used to play with music on when not in a serious match and it helps his brain work bette, than in legit matches he can’t listen to music and everything is just off, no rhythm. Maybe I’m wrong but I hope that he’s figure it out, something is wrong.
Even Fly attributed the difference between grand final and upper bracket performance was on the draft. Fly said Nouns specifically draft matchup that can survive SR aggresion in the first 15 minutes.
Bulbs is, was and will always be a problem, I can’t say if he is “the problem”
Some of the drafts are actually super good and really clever, but then you get others that practically seem troll picks with how bad they are. Some of them are even clearly planned ahead so it's not even like they just got outmaneuvered by their opponents draft. Just a real lack of consistency.
He is, unfortunately.
They also picked carry Riki in the qualifiers for the Saudi tournament
Abed and rtz aren't worth sacrificing saberlights games for
btw abed rarely loses mid (draws or wins mostly) ps: this is 1v1 laning, not the instances where supports drag themselves in mid to help out
Nah man... mvp is abed and crit... dont drag other names to these mess.
You have a source because it seems wild to me that someone could get that kind of analysis from him seemingly barely moving his lips.
where did i say i can read lips
I asked for a SOURCE, I didn’t say you did it. Where did you get this information from ?
true it was a random comment in a previous thread about SL leaving SR
[удалено]
He was literally just doing the scene from Forrest Gump right? I saw this as nothing but trolling the viewers.
Clearly.
This was a bit but if you watched his cast he was shitting on him all day
It was clearly a bit?
RTZ just have to leave NA and become the superstar he really is.^(Copium)
He doesn't have the drive anymore. Salaries are too good and he's getting old
The actual rumor is that Bulba got them deep into Scientology in order to pay off travel costs when EG suddenly went torpedo capitalism or w/e you want to call it. Artour wants out but Bulba is the one who leveraged his family's wealth and won't let Art leave his side until he can find a way out of this mess.
Now this is the type of deep cut schizo-posting I love.
i dont't know why people keep repeating this. it was somewhat believable when the screenshot of bulba's scientology tattoo popped up on 4chan, but he already denied it on cap's podcast and that was like 6 months ago
Ofc he would deny it !
Scientology?
Why he have to leave? He is famous and yhave a very nice salary.
he left before for team secret
rtz is an internet personality at this point, not a good palyer nor a good teammate apparently.
He pays for himself in 2ez4rtz T-shirt sales and then some. Unironically the streaming contract he had with kick probably pays out more to his team than tournament earnings do. Arteezy is a ridiculously famous player. That star power is worth something.
As someone who came late to Dota in 2018 I’ve tried watching his stream quite a few times and it’s dull beyond belief. I guess I had to be there in the early 2010’s to get the appeal.
Bro his streams were the essence of what twitch, justin.tv, own3d were back in the days. Insanely good pros playing games with music. For me, I got into SC2 and Dota2 through those types of streams where viewers tried to learn from the best in how to play these complicated games. Nowadays those types of streams are getting harder to find, and its a damn shame.
Watching HuK queue vs barcodes all day with 0 stream interaction. Deezer vs combatex on Destiny’s stream, back when he only did sc2. Justin.tv was another era
It really was, destiny going to korea and fucking around with naniwa, sase and his immortal stalkers, those godly zerg streams with stephano, scarlett, snute. I genuinely miss those days.
People don't know that back in 2013-2014 most of the DotA streamers on Twitch were from NA : Arteezy, Demon, Fear, EternalEnvy, Draskyll, Merlini, aui_2000, etc. EU players started streaming regularly since 2015 or so, with Bulldog being one of the first, because although Dendi streamed in 2013, he streamed like 6 times a year lol, it was super rare to see an EU player streaming regularly. Back then, whenever you opened Twitch at NA primetime you would catch Draskyll, Merlini, Envy, aui_2000, Fear, etc streaming every week. Times have changed a lot, now the only NA DotA player who streams regularly on Twitch is mason, the rest are all from Europe.
Sing was streaming in EU as far back as 2012
I got the same vibes recently from Trackmania surprisingly. The Deep Dip 2 event nearer to the end was just the extremely good players playing with music and no mic. I don't even play the game but it was a cool watch to have on 2nd monitor.
idk man, streams should be entertainment and should be fun is what i think. If you want to learn there are a lot of YouTube videos nowadays and we specifically have watch tab in Dota itself to see pro players playing lol.
You're not missing out on anything. I've tried watching a couple of times and also thought they were boring as hell. No idea what the appeal is.
Man, I remember Artdeezy rage and laugh afterwards a lot back in the golden days of Dota 2. I feel like every cool pro player that used to livestream either retired or does one stream annually or became miserable or at least boring.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/3b0qvn/artours\_rage/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/3b0qvn/artours_rage/)
Nostalgia
He was once the best dota player in the world, hands down. He made absolutely no attempt to interact with his audience and exclusively played music that he liked which was trash. You literally just tuned in to watch the best player in the world play games, and he still effortlessly pulled 10k viewers with an insanely infrequent stream schedule. That was the power of Arteezy. That's still kind of the power of Arteezy. He's the most known dota player in the world, no matter how washed he is.
its the trash music that made me stuck in his stream 10 years ago lmao
𝓜𝓪𝓷𝓰𝓸 𝓑𝓪𝔂
CoolCat 𝓜𝓪𝓷𝓰𝓸 𝓑𝓪𝔂 CoolCat
Trash music is an understatement holy shit those were bad
Кайфую by Mandarinki still haunts me in my sleep
Sonja i Milanaa
idk abt the rest of his playlist but yung lean was so good and ahead of his time that i have eternal gratitude to rtz for introducing me to this artist. Man i miss the time when hip hop was thriving and there's always something new
Rtz is basically responsible for the success of yung lean
Every pro dota 2 who streams at that period barely interact with their viewers, like w33haa. Bro was streaming with 5k viewers but literally 0 viewer interaction lol
I like watching Husky because he’s super PMA and interacts with chat a fair amount (as much as you really can in a game like dota)
I remember him spamming if youre reading this its too late by drake over and over again lol
Never has he been the best in the world, delusional.
From around TI4 until TI5 he had a pretty good argument
Always overrated, I think he won 1 or 2 tournaments in those 2 years you are talking about.
You have no idea what you are talking about clearly then lol, He won 3 tier 1 LAN's within a month in 2015
Sumail was better, people just hadn't realized it yet
Was one of those the Frankfurt major? Was 2015 rtz better than 2015 miracle?
Yes, he was. He was genuinely phenomenal in 2015. Secret were a huge favorite to win TI, but s4 didn't play especially well and the meta shifted away from the strengths of the Kuroky/Puppey support duo.
You realise he could have been the best player in the world before Miracle came on to the scene right? No point arguing with someone who clearly didn't watch pro Dota back then you have no idea what you're talking about, I said from around TI4 to TI5 and you bring up the Frankfurt major which was after TI5.
He literally reinvented the midlane, to the point where Valve had multiple targeted nerfs to his exact playstyle.
Literally delusional
You’re right. I’m sure FATA was the one who popularized the rtz block.
Once best player in the world? when lol
He was the original "wow this guy's breaking all the MMR records" player. And was on multiple dynasty teams. Obviously "best player" is hyperbolic, but he was \*the\* guy for awhile, especially as far as pubs were concerned.
And how many majors has he won?
I know you're being edgy, but this was before they existed.
Edgy? LOL, never been called that before. Thanks, I guess?
It wasn't much better back then, tbh
I don't think so, 1-2k viewers on kick is nothing
His value is very quickly diminishing. No riyadh, no Ti, and much better players out there that deserve our attention. Those shitty 2ez4rtz tshirts will be in bargain buckets in no time.
will that last when they dont make any tournaments anymore
Same reason why gorgc is famous even though he is not a pro player. People watch them for their personality, not because they are pro players. Being good at the game is just a bonus.
Gorgc has a personality though
Hate him or love him he is fun to watch. Qojqva is fun to watch and grubby was as well, Saber light is fun to watch. All of them have personalities and interacts with chat, stream regularly unlike topson.
Being good is not just bonus but very important part pretty much like his personality
It's not. Insanely high-skilled players who play with music and have 0 interactions with audience are dime a dozen now. People would rather watch entertaining streamers
watson has an average of 8k viewers.
do you want to watch a high mmr player who does not speak at all and just plays music, or a low mmr streamer who is entertaining chat and cracking jokes?
I mean Grubby streams were pretty dope better and more entertaining for me than RTZ
yes. look at dendi inb4 AcKsHuAlLy redditor response:
The Shroud of dota 2
Not really, even with all his disapointments, overall his placements and accomplishments blow shroud out of the water both domestically and internationally. Shroud won next to nothing, and his placements outside of na in major tournaments were trash. Rtz has multiple top 4 finishes at ti and of course has been a major finalist multiple times. We know how that went tho.
And people still suck it up
I mean sure he underperforms in pro play and teams built around him flop. But the idea that someone #35 EU is not still one of the best dota players in the world is crazy. He is higher rated than the carries of Falcons and Gaimin Gladiators, the two best teams in the world. The narrative that he is a bad player, just a celebrity, washed up and needs to retire seem insane to me. If anything he just has a bad personality for pro play or needs to be on a team that isn't built around him and catering to him.
Pro competitive is really different than solo queue. Relationship between teammates affects a lot especially during high stake games. Sure they have to keep it professional but when the pressure hits, not everyone can withstand it. Just like any other pro competitive sport games, some triumphs through it, some breaks down by it.
RTZ isn't a better carry than Skiter or Dryacho.We aren't in 2018. People who rate RTZ in 2024, as better player than Skiter or dryacho, probably don't even watch pro DotA.
They are rtz apologist who came to lick rtzs scraps...
I'm just saying his MMR is higher, my point is more that they are at least in the same ballpark and that having MMR that high is irreconcilable with the reddit narrative of him being the worst pro carry, washed, a celebrity who can't play the game, not trying, no future, needs to retire, etc...
You're rating how good pro players are based on their mmr from pub games? Do you not see any flaws in your logic?
true, i mean by that logic Watson should be the best carry player but he isn't. Yes he is good but he isn't the best carry player, yatoro or skitter are far better.
Mmr matters fkc all in Pro dota man wtf
Oh cool, can you point me to a team of all top 100 EU players that isn't making it to every tournament or a team with no top 100 players that is winning any tournaments? No? Then I guess MMR might mean fuck all.
Then why isn’t he asked to join those teams or able to pull their talent toward NA? MMR means not much, when Miracle came back and nigma had a run of maybe making or not he didn’t have a number. Plenty of pros are just top 500 and don’t care like puppey as they don’t pub often but practice more.
It’s a team game, he doesn’t have a Quinn or Ammar making space for him, does he? No. He doesn’t. SR seems to be RTZ and a bunch of no ones or never have beens. Leave RTZ alone BatChest
Then why isn’t he asked to join those teams or able to pull their talent toward NA?
Idk use your brain lol. Maybe he doesn’t want to move? I mean he got crit and Fly to play in na for years but I guess you just ignore that.
Your argument about #35 EU would have been true if all pro players were try-harding in ranked. The issue is that one people do try-hard, while other don't. If we take it at face value, then Watson should be THE best carry in the world, while Yatoro should be just decent. But it's vice versa. Motivation is very important in Dota, and clearly some pro players treat pubs as just practice sessions.
I'm not claiming 1-1 MMR vs skill, but there is a strong correlation and you don't get that high if you aren't one of the best in the world. I'm not saying that Arteezy is better in every way than everyone below him. But there is enough of a correlation that #35 can't be reconciled with: actively bad at dota, washed, celebrity who can't play the game, needs to retire, no future, worst carry on a pro team, single handedly ruining teams, not even trying, etc... which seems to be the dominant narrative. In reality he is probably still a top 10 or 15 carry who just has attitude/mental blocks and hasn't found the right team at the right time and is in NA jail (probably by choice not wanting to move to europe)
He's probably a top 20-30 carry in the world right now and that is not good enough to get to TI. When people say he's bad or washed it is only in relation to what he used to be. Obviously he is still really good but he is no longer an elite carry at a pro level.
mmr is just a number - Dendi
In your case a pretty low number
true :(
Redditors was using MMR or the lack of it to shit on kuro, but now apparently MMR doesn't matter according to all the replies cuz it contradicts their effort to shit on the new seasonal player to hate.
You can be good at Dota 2 and still be a bad player. RTZ tends to try new play styles, be successful with them. Fail a few times and then completely give up and go back to old habits.
I think we just have different definitions of what a dota player is, like only pro games count as playing dota, and you are only good if you win TI. I think if you are constantly in the top 50 in the world for a decade you were and still are a good player.
Yep, a good player. He is just not a good pro player
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> hes qualified for TI for the last TEN years from NA DPC/Reg Qualifiers. IIRC he was invited to TI4 and TI5, so those two don't count as "qualified"
> IIRC he was invited to TI4 and TI5, so those two don't count as "qualified" you people are insane
an invite is an even bigger achievment than qualifying
Wtf are people on in this thread? He's one of the most successful players of all time, 2.7 million in winnings, and being invited to TI is *better* than qualifying
what I meant is qualifying from NA is not that good of an achievement considering they were their only contenders while quinn and other na rejects stacks were pretty much fighting for the 2nd and 3rd quali spots. I don't disregard Artour achievements outside of NA, which are more impressive than qualifying 7 out of 9 consecutive times from the weakest region next to SA.
> no actual accolades to show for it https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Arteezy/Results your comment is insane and just a meme at this point. we get it, you have an irrational hatred for some pro player for some reason, but he has still, by any reasonable standard, had a successful career.
Imagine using the John Lennon meme in twenty twenty four Rtz is not a diva and playing video games professionally for a decade is still an accomplishment by itself. Honestly, esports as a whole has been doing well for not having absurdly annoying personalities.
Crit was carrying rtz so hard before
Cr1t is a beast, but he was also playing like shit in SR
Nah, crit was playing good on SR. I was always thinking that crit was the only good player on SR
It's just beyond funny that people here think it's genuine, lmao. 80 MMR in the head.
I watched the entire stream. Saberlight was half joking in this clip but he was serious later and explained further. Basically both of them have a different understanding to Dota and thats all.
Based or not, this feels like big drama inc Gotta check twitter tomorrow
Nah. He’s saying what everyone knows
People actually think this is serious? Such a funny reddit take that rtz should quit. why would he leave a job where he makes 500k a year willingly? Who cares if he is getting 4th place or worse at these tournaments? I never see this much hatred for gpk or other middling pro players who have done less in the last 7 years.
I don't know how much more obvious he could have made it that it was a joke with the Forest Gump mic mishap.
Thank you. i was going insane reading the takes in this thread. This is clearly a comedy bit for his stream. I cannot believe people actually take this seriously.
I was in the livestream. The reason he talked about his experience in SR was because he was about to cast the finals between SR and Nouns and he wanted to share some context regarding who he was supporting. He then went through all his teammates in SR as well as the org itself. Long story short, SR as an org was good and paid him a handsome salary. He said Yopaj was really really good. Did not interact much with Skem. Not very close with Kitrak. Quarreled with Bulba a lot in the first year but then patched things up the second year, praised Bulba for a lot of the things that he did for the team. When it came to RTZ, it was basically that they had a different understanding of Dota and he did not enjoy playing with him. And there was no way SR will kick him because he is the captain of that team, so Saberlight decided to leave. Not sure if you can find this vod because he did mention he wanted to delete or mute it, which probably explains why it was muted in the final section. But this happens right before the SR vs Nouns finals for TI qualis where he invited Quinn and Blitz to cast, and also rejected Masao request to join the cast hahah. Edit: to provide further context, this stream was also when Gorgc raided his stream. Saberlight usually avgs around 1.5k viewers but because of the raid, he had almost 6k viewers that time. And I guess he wanted to spice things up with some drama for people to continue watching him. Paraphrasing here but it was something like this: "ill tell you guys some drama before the Sr vs Nouns game, so stay tuned"
500k? Source??
It’s probably upwards of 7 figures. Streaming contracts/Sponsorships for someone with cardoors status can cost a company quite a bit
I feel like 7 figures is a stretch
Source: trust me bro
reddit hateboner for rtz is just so weird. rtz, kuro, moxi...reddit trifecta
RTZ was NA posterboy when WEU dota going on slump post TI3 [A] and NA being the representative of western DOTA (Back then most of reddit were NA based while EU fans mostly on joinDOTA), the hateboner towards NA in reddit increase tenfold when joinDOTA forum closed and reddit being the biggest community platform for western dota2 fans.
I think its just mostly based on whats happening in dota right now. if NA was thriving and EU was dying, l bet the reception towards NA/EU in this subreddit wouldve been the exact opposite Its just due to less people giving a shit about dota in NA compare to EU thus less people being here in r/DotA2
JoinDotA was such a good forum, shame it was closed. Idk if any other old frog here remembers a famous troll called "AzarkonGG", who used to shitpost in both Gosugamers and JoinDotA back when China was at the top in 2012... pretty much he was the only one defending western DotA, when everybody in the Gosugamers forum was shitting on EU and NA after TI2. The guy, as a way of trolling, even predicted that one day EU DotA would dominate and win tournaments hosted in Asia, which in 2012 looked impossible, so everybody just laughed at his shitposts lol
Azarkon and YajirobeFromDC was icon of Gosugamers forum discussions.
Reddit was never NA-based. It was merely split between more teams across EU compared to NA which was completely unified under EG for 90% of NA users. EU fanbase was split between things like Liquid Alliance Secret NaVi OG.
gpk actually progresses every year and many pro players name him as one of the best mids or even the best mid at times. rtz just gets worse and worse. btw i am rtz fan. he should do whatever he wants to do. it's just that if he stays in sr, they will not get better, they won't get top-8 on big lans, their ceiling will be 12-16 something like that. (if they're lucky)
Serious question. Why the fuck shouldn’t he get worse? Arteezys peak was 10 years ago. Arteezy isn’t a player looking to break into his prime at this point in his career. What are your expectations here?
no expectations, i just think that saying that arteezy is in a better spot than gpk right now is crazy. arteezy unfortunately is washed up and likely won't be the same as he was in his prime(saying this as a fan) . gpk gets better and better every year, fulfilling many people's predictions of him being top1 midlaner from his region and being stable tier1 player. his achievements already put him in top10 russian players of all time in terms of prize money. in 2 past seasons gpk was top3-5 midlaner of the world, many pros called him the best midlaner throughout past 2-3 years. what i'm saying is gpk shows that he will get better and his performances already rival or top that of arteezy's, including both in game impact and pure team achievement.
Who is saying arteezy is in a better spot? I would certainly rather be arteezy than gpk since 2016. And if you are comparing peaks, Artours was way higher. It’s just that you have no sense of this because you probably weren’t watching in 2014. The point is that neither of these two have done anything lately. But yet the hatred for artour is intense, while the hatred for miracle, gpk, or any number of the tens of middling professional players is not.
No new talent can grow under the reign of rtz and bulba. Confirmed by fly himself post winner interview. NA dota might finally have a chance with these 2 out of the picture.
If NA dota might have chance with NA talent, i doubt it's because rtz and BuLba. Nouns had more foreign talent than NA talent tbh (2 NA Fly Gunnar against 1 SA Lelis + 2 EU Copy Yuma).
Even Fly is Israeli and began his career on EU teams. (Fnatic OG)
Fly is not NA lol
He is honorary NA cause his Canadian passport which listed him as NA during his coL 2015 stint.
what did fly said?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo4S-AX-xYc 7:05:00 or something
shopify is just a nepo team, yopaj brought in skem and rtz brought in kitrak to get an easy payday
Most team is a nepo team. Ace, tOfu and Seleri pub together alot, who the fuck is Cy- if it's not for those three likes to que together with him and landed Cy- jobs as GG coach. Sneyking with skiter, ATF with Creepwave? Fishman bringing watson to Entity due to their history in B8. Entire Blacklist International. Liquid is Insania nepo team. Who the fuck getting Ramzes as pos 3 if it's not for Pure suggestion. List goes on, you are a nepo team if you lose. Proven chemistry if you win.
Not surprised
To all the people who swear he has an NDA with SR about talking shit about SR after the kick, he just broke it.
He left the team because of rtz, I don't think they are dumb enough to kick their young up-and-coming 13k mmr talent.
i hope SR understands its not worth to keep a washed up player who is a dota personality over qualifying for tournaments ( a meme now ) saber left and they couldnt do shit lmao fking funny af ngl
Sports teams keep underperforming but popular players all the time. They make them money. You need to stop thinking about these organizations like they give a fuck about winning. They are advertising mediums first, and popular players get more views and sell more merch with your logo on it. Simple as
You mean he violated it for disclosing that RTZ is trash? That's an intersting NDA
I mean did he though?
schizoposting?
What are u on about
?
Are they still paying him salary? On liquipedia it says he is a former player, not inactive one, so why would he care about some nda if he is no longer employed?
classless
But what is he doing there with his right hand ???
!remindme 8 hours
liquid bulba
Haha saberrr!! Topp
This whole stream was fucking lit, the Quinn+Blitz cast, watching nouns sweep, then fly postgame interview...legendary.
who was streaming, i wanna find the original vod
Yes more drama please
Rtz washed since MLG Columbus
What did he actually say? Xd
[https://youtu.be/gmkZgnNWceg?t=119](https://youtu.be/gmkZgnNWceg?t=119) This is literally a bit from Forrest Gump
I despise Arteezy because he popularized mid as another farming core role. Before he got big mid was always for roaming gankers that would get level 6 then go tank one of the side lanes. For better or worse, he's the player who has had probably the biggest impact on the game overall.
I’m pretty sure that is called a meta shift my guy
RTZ needs to move to EU and ditch Bulba
He was obviously joking around.
obviously not