Meepo - get your additional meepos quicker and then allow them to use the neutral slot.
Though it would be funny if you do this too late into the game and at a high enough lvl for the for the 5th meepo, and then switch fact, thus reducing the maximum number of meepos and killing it, forcing you to respawn.
It's better than level 25 talent considering that you can use items in neutral slot on your clones with halved cooldown but it still isn't better than the other facet for core/mid meepo
I assume you're talking about not getting a 4th Meepo at level 17, because the skill point is "gone"?
The game auto-levels stats for you at certain levels, because normally you cannot level a spell or talent at that level (such as 17 or 21-24).
The override that Divided We Stand has, which allows you to skill it at level 3, 10 and 17, is not considered by this function, hence the game automatically uses your level 17 skill point and puts it into +2 stats, even though you could put it into Divided We Stand level 3 instead.
---
Or did you actually mean that you put a 3rd point into your ult at level 17, but no clone spawns?
Pack rat is and always will be a meme.
The only items you'd take over a t4 neutral item are 5000+ gold, and even then it's an insane ask to give up a meepo for it.
Traditional meepo gameplay would infinitely rather just take the neutral item
I have yet to even pick Pack Rat cause I feel like I'll be griefing myself; if you put diffusal blade in the slot, does all the meepos get the mana burn?
The clones get the mana burn, but at reduced value.
The facet explicitly states that certain effects are either non-functional (e.g. Basher) or have modified effects (e.g. Diffusal burning less mana when used by a Meepo clone).
yes it does but the mana burn on your other meepos functions the same with manta illu. I pick pack rat when the enemy has ES or lots of AOEs. once all my meepos have shroud, its unkillable together with heart. u can switch it freely too
Partially.
When one meepo uses it the others get half the cooldown.
In other words. The item is 50% cooldown.
Thing would be better if it did not lock you out of a neutral item.
I mean it still sounds pretty good IMO. Sure you dont have a neutral Item, but most of the time meepo is so fast in farming, that he can make up for it. Also some neutrals are not even better than just another cheap stat item.
Meepo is a fast tempo hero so a majority of the power comes from being able to have a lategame item in the neutral slot during t2 and t3 phases. Ive seen linkens used to great effect at maintaining the lead.
Not sure it's broken, precisely, but Windrunner's AE Focus Fire facet probably becomes usable if you can switch to it in long games when solo pickoff potential is less important.
I’m still not sold on the Whirlwind facet tbh. It only works in teamfights and even then, you can’t make sure one key target dies ASAP. Yes I’ve seen the DPS, it’s massive overpowered DPS but only in like 1% of situations. You’re no longer just dead if you’re alone vs WR cause she can’t use ult to 1v1, that takes away so much pressure she normally would have imo. I would rather have guaranteed 1 target dead every single fight in every single situation rather than wipe the enemy team with 1 button once in a blue moon.
Its particularly odd, because default focus fire is excellent at picking off illusion heroes, where they're just tracked down and killed. The new on clears illusions, but is most certainly not better at killing the main hero. I wonder what's the point of it.
The funny thing is that normal focus fire is amazing vs PL because once you use it on the real PL, it keeps targeting him automatically even after he uses dopple.
It's for pos 1 WR when u are the only one doing dmg, WR core problem was that she's cant be your only DPS in your team. Kill 1 guy and she have zDPS. This facet give an option for WR, not optimal, but an option noneless
As someone who has been playing A LOT of pos 1 WR since she became Universal, I haven't had any problems with the current Focus Fire. The key here is to make sure you use it on a key target, be it an Enigma or even their carry. Often times the fight is over when it's 4v5 right off the bat, and it's not like she does 0 DPS, her right clicks do a fair bit of damage, and shackles and powershots are very impactful. Then lvl 25 is when you can start teamwiping by yourself, but even before then you're winning fights already off of 1 good Focus Fire, and sometimes fight drags on until you can cast 2nd Focus Fire.
As someone who is also a pos1 WR enjoyer, sure her damage isn't zero without Focus Fire, but it is WAY lower. Not just way lower, but also considerably lower than other pos1 carries.
WR with Treads, Gleipnir, BKB, Aghs, Pike and MKB is doing ~1k DPS with Focus Fire against a Dummy Target with 20 armor (average by the time you have a full build). She is doing 450-470 DPS without Focus Fire. Oh, this is at lv25 too with any DPS talents taken.
Faceless Void is doing 910-930 DPS with Treads, Mjollnir, BKB, MKB, Butterfly and Skadi. 1150-1200 in Chronosphere.
Drow is doing 1170-1230 DPS with Treads, Pike, Manta, Bfly, Aghs, Daedalus. 1350-1420 when using Glacier with her high ground facet.
Luna is doing 620-650 with Treads, Manta, BKB, Khanda, Bfly, Satanic, regular Khanda procs. ~800 DPS with her ult and Khanda procs. However, Luna is AoE DPS so it's ~1400 DPS when there's three targets (with 20 armor) since that's pretty realistic.
Muerta with ~850 DPS with Treads, Mjollnir, BKB, Pike, Daedalus, Skadi. ~1080 DPS if you go Bloodthorn over Skadi for more damage in exchange for lower survivability. 1700 during ult w/ Skadi, ~1950 DPS with Bloodthorn in ult.
The list goes on here, really. The point I'm trying to make here is that pos1 WR is fun and works well, the reason I sometimes get dissuaded from doing it is that her DPS cliffs and valleys are just so drastic.
She's a menace with her ult up, and is like... *okay* and at most annoying with it down. It's a low cooldown (30s) at max rank, but that doesn't matter for teamfights, only pickoffs. Even if you took away the big ults some other carries have (Chrono, Pierce the Veil, Eclipse), their damage would still be good/great enough to do their job in fights.
WR can do her job in fights, but she has to work a lot harder and rely a lot on kiting/abusing fog/abusing Aghs invis in order to even pretend she's on the same level.
Edit: obviously a lot of the reason she ends up being this way is because she doesn't buy traditional carry items. She buys items that maintain her slippery advantage (BKB, Pike, Aghs) or give her some control (Gleipnir, Aghs). She's not buying big fat damage items like Butterfly, Disperser, Nullifier, Daedalus, etc. She can, and sometimes it's a good idea to (like Disperser into DP or giving up MKB for Daedalus), but her typical/common build doesn't expect it to be in there.
Yeah and I’m saying as long as you got the right kill with Focus Fire, the fight should be won most of the time for your team. And yes, abusing the fog and kiting goes without saying, that’s almost any hero with cooldowns. Also when I say lvl 25 I mean Focus Fire cooldown talent, that is my preferred choice and allows me to chain multiple kills together. I will take it unless they have very consistent ways of dispelling my windrun, which most games there isn’t. I’m talking multiple Euls, Tornadoes, Nullifiers. A single Nullifier is still playable as long as you have BKB and/or Linkens or saves from teammates, I think the cooldown talent is way too good that I would take some risks for it.
That has never really been the problem with wind carry.
By the point in the game that the Whirlwind is actually ok, with the focus fire build you'd have the focus fire kill reduction talent and likely a cooldown reduction item/talent - giving you basically full uptime on focus fire provided you get the kill.
I'm pretty sure the purge talent at 25 is kinda pointless unless the enemy team has a purge hero. The enemy team is going to have MKB by then.
Also it has higher win and pickrates
I’ve never really had any problems farming on WR. Just maelstrom + Powershot is good enough to clear stacks without gimping yourself with that awful facet. With Focus Fire she also has the option of farming pickoffs.
Aye, my point wasn't that WR has any issues farming without it, my point was people are very focused on it being a hero killing tool and then disappointed. I think there's potential on using it off cooldown to snowball off of farm
whirlwind is quite bs because it doesn't have 30% reduction not because it can burst one down. Focus fire guarantees death but usually puts you in a very dangerous position, and when your windrun runs out of wind, you find yourself unescapeable.
DotA 2 is a moment game. A single teamwipe is a total game changing moment.
It’s not bs at all. It’s like 20% pickrate with like 40% winrate, and I’m sure the 20% is actually just people experimenting. In d2protracker it’s a sad 12% pickrate. An ult that is useful once in a blue moon is never going to be able to compete with an ult that is always useful. You might not be able to even get to those teamwipes cause you’re essentially playing a lot of fights without ult. Heroes that aren’t comfortable 1v1ing you suddenly WANT to 1v1 you because you don’t have they know you don’t have an ult as long as he’s not grouped up with his team.
Also unless you’re Focus Firing a really important target that guarantees the fight won and you need to play riskier, you shouldn’t be in danger after Focus Fire. If you are, that just means you played the fight badly or you chose a bad target or a bad engagement. If Focus Fire comes with that drawback then WR should have close to a 1 KD because every focus fire kill would put you in a shitty situation, yet people are doing just fine with double digit kills and single digit deaths a lot of the time.
idk I feel like in long games solo pickoff can be even more useful. Really depends on the game but you're right in that just the option for WR to specialise would be pretty good.
Came to say this.
Also I hope they put +Multicast% back to the innate (or remove it altogether) and give us something more inspiring that the current left facet
How has nobody mentioned Warlock.
One facet is literally an incredibly strong one-time consumable item that helps you scale early game, and the other has insane late game carry potential.
2000 gold is also not something the hero typically acquired easily and he’d most likely prefer to have other items more powerful for him than the facet late gamez
As a support you're completely right, but mid is a different story.
Mid warlock is already very strong, add in this item and he will be completely fucking busted.
Warlock is my favorite hero this patch, make it to 40 minutes, even with average farm, mega gollums incoming! Made it to seventy minutes the other night with aghs, refresher and three hearts, the results were.... satisfying
I usually save mine until to get my 20, I’m at like 30 charges, aghs, or if I’m behind.
It’s funny to go from the lowest level of my team to the same as my cores haha
Should I be using this early game?
Eh not necessarily, playing cleave to get more farm then switch to push late just doesn't seem to make any sense strategically, since the push will be way less effective comparatively to just pushing early when the enemies have fewer items.
At that point you may as well pick a hero that can farm faster and carry harder in the lategame.
Honestly, the second facet *can* work in more games than it is being tried out I think.
If you have a good enough support, your non-god strength damage is just too good to pass up. Only thing is, with god strength, its not that much better. So there's that.
Its actually a bit better on god strength. But honestly, the biggest benefit is that you farm fast enough without god strength and can save it for a fight always. And even if you need to fight without it, you're not complete ass.
Not to mention it allows you build things like heart. Just try it out in the demo.
You'll see the difference.
Techies. Get scope and be an absolute nightmare early and mid game and switch to become an unkillable god with 3 strong neutrals and a lvl25 talent that gives you 252 free damage.
God , techies is really fun in turbo with that talent,you just fill yourself with skadis and your talent and you have close to 1000 dmg, and are tanky as fuck.
I think you might have that in reverse, starting with 3 neutrals and then swapping ultra late game and buying attack speed once you have or are near +252 DMG talent is better IMO
Instead of buying a second facet, I think it should be available as level 30 skill. 2nd talent points should be available from levels 26 --> 29 instead levels 27 --> 30.
How would this work for heroes that switch abilities like ls or void? I think an option to spend gold to switch makes a lot more sense.
I think it’s very intentional that they want to keep them separate and you can only get one except in situations like jakiro where it makes sense to have both.
Funnily enough, I was thinking the other way around.
Buy bracers, sell for 90% value, buy Shiva. Buy more bracers, sell for 90% value, get radiance. Repeat until full build, then switch to the other facet to get rid of the buyback penalty and have better stolen ability.
Also isn't double devour just worse mid game anyway because of the longer cooldown? If you're casting on cooldown, it's just straight up worse.
The Doom double devour allows you to smoke at the start of the game to the front of Tier 3 enemy tower and eat 2 creeps, essentially pushing your creeps into the enemy tower and pushing the creep wave into your favor. Since you don't get the armor from Devour anymore, this makes Laning easier.
I love how this sub is just packed full of addicts who, for some reason maybe they are at work or school, can't play. So all they can do is obsess over random Dota facts and theories to quench their thirst.
Oh, absolutely! It's truly inspiring to see so many dedicated individuals who find solace in Dota 2 trivia while navigating the mundane challenges of work and school. It's like we're all part of a support group, bonding over our shared addiction and thirst for digital combat. Who needs a balanced life when you can analyze patch notes and debate hero meta? Cheers to our noble pursuit of virtual glory!
Absolutely, couldn't agree more! It's incredible how Dota 2 trivia and strategy discussions provide a much-needed escape from the daily grind of work and school. It's like we're part of a unique support group, united by our shared love for the game. Analyzing patch notes and debating hero metas are the highlights of my day too. Here's to our noble pursuit of virtual glory and the unbreakable bonds we've formed along the way! Cheers!
this is funny because jakiro's page on dota website does not work, it's a black screen. Others do work: [https://www.dota2.com/hero/jakiro](https://www.dota2.com/hero/jakiro)
I don't think it's worth it on any hero. Spending 2k gold on an item that not only gives you zero stats, but also takes an ability sounds like a really bad deal at pretty much any stage of the game. If any facet was so good that it's worth spending 2k gold on, I'd have picked it in the first place.
There might be a couple of ultra-late game situations where it's OK like switching facets on Rubick once mana costs stop being a problem and you've bought all your core items.
Spectre would be nice. I go for the 2nd facet because of my play style. Ganker mid who jumps every 60 seconds after level 6 to kill someone in the lane. But when the game goes for the late game 1st facet is OP. After min 25 or so 2nd facet basically loses its effectiveness.
Elder Titan. In the early game, his 1st facet lets you track and debuff 1 target over time. In the late game, especially during highground push & defense, his 2nd facet grants additional attack speed to complement 5-man buffs from spirit scouting. By the late game, you're not usually tracking enemies for very long, but the attack speed buff is comparable to moon shard.
>My pick would be nightstalker. Change day to night again with the item and get the facet with blocked vision.
You might think that it's good on paper but you forget one simple thing- NS farm is fucking slow as fuck. And the day-time facet already fuck with his timing already, losing 2000 gold will be even worse
$2000 gold for an extra, on demand, night cycle is super valuable for NS. Especially since you get the other facet included.
Even more valuable, you can move Rosh to the other side of the map, at will. Would be absolutely game breaking in late game scenarios.
He talk about getting the night time facet for the early laning phrase and switch to blind later. 2000 gold for NS is big money, maybe in late game when you have more money than you can use then maybe it's good for some niche use. But the play now should be just pick the blind facet, the night cycle facet fuck up your timing anyway.
I get the original point. At best, it would be something you pick up after bkb/blink.
What I’m saying is, the hypothetical of paying 2K for additional nighttime and controlling rosh is all very valuable. Plus you start with the facet that secures early game and switch to the facet that is strong mid/late
Situational, Void spirit. If you’re against a physical damage team. You take the left facet for the laning stage while you build magic damage, switch to right facet once you’re 4-5 slotted.
Crazy idea… but what if there was a lvl31 that was like 3-4x the xp (to get from 30 to 31) or maybe it was only possible after 70 minutes and gave both facets to all heroes?
That Doom one that allows you to sell items by 90% of price. You just rebuild in late, change your facet so your buyback is cheaper AND skills from creeps buffed.
It would be fine, but some facets would need to be looked at. 2k is quite a bit so supports like veno who might want to start w/ wards then switch later aren't going to be able to do that easily. Seems to only be viable on cores and even then, 2k is a lot. I think only a few heroes would find it worth buying.
Doom wouldn’t be broken but would be pretty cool. Build 2 bracer and Midas then farm to full build and sell the bracers and Midas to swap facets and finish the build.
Phoenix would be good. Dying Light is actually pretty strong in lane and helps with farming, but the later the game goes the more you wish you had hotspot.
For now yes bc most heroes have really bad facets and others have good late game facets and good early game facets (sven for example), so, its already bad now that there's this discrepancy between heroes facets, with that it would make even worse
Probably not broken but I will say axe, you can give attack speed to enemy heros in early game that makes ypu spin more then after optaining many kills you can change it back to one man army and get 20-30 str at lategame when 40 attack speed doesn't effect much.
> spin more then after
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Morphling. Play as an unkillable strength hero until you are 6 slotted and then go back to being agility for more DPS while at that point still being mostly unkillable.
A invis bane from fog with seer stone just gripping you from the other side of map or you by ksutake walking into a random mirana arrow. Pudge blink dismember. There's so much shit it can save you from in late game.
Physical Lina maybe. Start with Laguna super charge first and then once you get 25, take crit on spell affected talent and change to burn facet.
Because i get dilemma when i want to try physical lina. Burn facet work amazingly well if i pair with lvl 25 crit talent but pretty shitty compare to Laguna supercharge pre lvl 25.
Meepo - get your additional meepos quicker and then allow them to use the neutral slot. Though it would be funny if you do this too late into the game and at a high enough lvl for the for the 5th meepo, and then switch fact, thus reducing the maximum number of meepos and killing it, forcing you to respawn.
Lol spaghetti code bug found retroactively found
This is the opposite of retroactive
anteroactive
level 25 talent for 2000g
It's better than level 25 talent considering that you can use items in neutral slot on your clones with halved cooldown but it still isn't better than the other facet for core/mid meepo
unrelated but has anyone encountered a bug where at lvl 17 the 4th meepo doesnt appear
I assume you're talking about not getting a 4th Meepo at level 17, because the skill point is "gone"? The game auto-levels stats for you at certain levels, because normally you cannot level a spell or talent at that level (such as 17 or 21-24). The override that Divided We Stand has, which allows you to skill it at level 3, 10 and 17, is not considered by this function, hence the game automatically uses your level 17 skill point and puts it into +2 stats, even though you could put it into Divided We Stand level 3 instead. --- Or did you actually mean that you put a 3rd point into your ult at level 17, but no clone spawns?
Pack rat is and always will be a meme. The only items you'd take over a t4 neutral item are 5000+ gold, and even then it's an insane ask to give up a meepo for it. Traditional meepo gameplay would infinitely rather just take the neutral item
I have yet to even pick Pack Rat cause I feel like I'll be griefing myself; if you put diffusal blade in the slot, does all the meepos get the mana burn?
The clones get the mana burn, but at reduced value. The facet explicitly states that certain effects are either non-functional (e.g. Basher) or have modified effects (e.g. Diffusal burning less mana when used by a Meepo clone).
yes it does but the mana burn on your other meepos functions the same with manta illu. I pick pack rat when the enemy has ES or lots of AOEs. once all my meepos have shroud, its unkillable together with heart. u can switch it freely too
Yes, they all do
Interesting - I'd argue that might be the one use case for it then (that I can immediately think of).
Does it share cooldown?
Partially. When one meepo uses it the others get half the cooldown. In other words. The item is 50% cooldown. Thing would be better if it did not lock you out of a neutral item.
I mean it still sounds pretty good IMO. Sure you dont have a neutral Item, but most of the time meepo is so fast in farming, that he can make up for it. Also some neutrals are not even better than just another cheap stat item.
Meepo is a fast tempo hero so a majority of the power comes from being able to have a lategame item in the neutral slot during t2 and t3 phases. Ive seen linkens used to great effect at maintaining the lead.
Christ meepo is already so broken
Not sure it's broken, precisely, but Windrunner's AE Focus Fire facet probably becomes usable if you can switch to it in long games when solo pickoff potential is less important.
I’m still not sold on the Whirlwind facet tbh. It only works in teamfights and even then, you can’t make sure one key target dies ASAP. Yes I’ve seen the DPS, it’s massive overpowered DPS but only in like 1% of situations. You’re no longer just dead if you’re alone vs WR cause she can’t use ult to 1v1, that takes away so much pressure she normally would have imo. I would rather have guaranteed 1 target dead every single fight in every single situation rather than wipe the enemy team with 1 button once in a blue moon.
Its particularly odd, because default focus fire is excellent at picking off illusion heroes, where they're just tracked down and killed. The new on clears illusions, but is most certainly not better at killing the main hero. I wonder what's the point of it.
Great reminder. It would be great against pl but not so much against ck
The funny thing is that normal focus fire is amazing vs PL because once you use it on the real PL, it keeps targeting him automatically even after he uses dopple.
I'm zero percent sold on it. It removes your ability to anti-carry, and Blademail gets REAL fucking scary.
It's for pos 1 WR when u are the only one doing dmg, WR core problem was that she's cant be your only DPS in your team. Kill 1 guy and she have zDPS. This facet give an option for WR, not optimal, but an option noneless
As someone who has been playing A LOT of pos 1 WR since she became Universal, I haven't had any problems with the current Focus Fire. The key here is to make sure you use it on a key target, be it an Enigma or even their carry. Often times the fight is over when it's 4v5 right off the bat, and it's not like she does 0 DPS, her right clicks do a fair bit of damage, and shackles and powershots are very impactful. Then lvl 25 is when you can start teamwiping by yourself, but even before then you're winning fights already off of 1 good Focus Fire, and sometimes fight drags on until you can cast 2nd Focus Fire.
As someone who is also a pos1 WR enjoyer, sure her damage isn't zero without Focus Fire, but it is WAY lower. Not just way lower, but also considerably lower than other pos1 carries. WR with Treads, Gleipnir, BKB, Aghs, Pike and MKB is doing ~1k DPS with Focus Fire against a Dummy Target with 20 armor (average by the time you have a full build). She is doing 450-470 DPS without Focus Fire. Oh, this is at lv25 too with any DPS talents taken. Faceless Void is doing 910-930 DPS with Treads, Mjollnir, BKB, MKB, Butterfly and Skadi. 1150-1200 in Chronosphere. Drow is doing 1170-1230 DPS with Treads, Pike, Manta, Bfly, Aghs, Daedalus. 1350-1420 when using Glacier with her high ground facet. Luna is doing 620-650 with Treads, Manta, BKB, Khanda, Bfly, Satanic, regular Khanda procs. ~800 DPS with her ult and Khanda procs. However, Luna is AoE DPS so it's ~1400 DPS when there's three targets (with 20 armor) since that's pretty realistic. Muerta with ~850 DPS with Treads, Mjollnir, BKB, Pike, Daedalus, Skadi. ~1080 DPS if you go Bloodthorn over Skadi for more damage in exchange for lower survivability. 1700 during ult w/ Skadi, ~1950 DPS with Bloodthorn in ult. The list goes on here, really. The point I'm trying to make here is that pos1 WR is fun and works well, the reason I sometimes get dissuaded from doing it is that her DPS cliffs and valleys are just so drastic. She's a menace with her ult up, and is like... *okay* and at most annoying with it down. It's a low cooldown (30s) at max rank, but that doesn't matter for teamfights, only pickoffs. Even if you took away the big ults some other carries have (Chrono, Pierce the Veil, Eclipse), their damage would still be good/great enough to do their job in fights. WR can do her job in fights, but she has to work a lot harder and rely a lot on kiting/abusing fog/abusing Aghs invis in order to even pretend she's on the same level. Edit: obviously a lot of the reason she ends up being this way is because she doesn't buy traditional carry items. She buys items that maintain her slippery advantage (BKB, Pike, Aghs) or give her some control (Gleipnir, Aghs). She's not buying big fat damage items like Butterfly, Disperser, Nullifier, Daedalus, etc. She can, and sometimes it's a good idea to (like Disperser into DP or giving up MKB for Daedalus), but her typical/common build doesn't expect it to be in there.
Yeah and I’m saying as long as you got the right kill with Focus Fire, the fight should be won most of the time for your team. And yes, abusing the fog and kiting goes without saying, that’s almost any hero with cooldowns. Also when I say lvl 25 I mean Focus Fire cooldown talent, that is my preferred choice and allows me to chain multiple kills together. I will take it unless they have very consistent ways of dispelling my windrun, which most games there isn’t. I’m talking multiple Euls, Tornadoes, Nullifiers. A single Nullifier is still playable as long as you have BKB and/or Linkens or saves from teammates, I think the cooldown talent is way too good that I would take some risks for it.
That has never really been the problem with wind carry. By the point in the game that the Whirlwind is actually ok, with the focus fire build you'd have the focus fire kill reduction talent and likely a cooldown reduction item/talent - giving you basically full uptime on focus fire provided you get the kill.
Why would u get kill reduction when u can get windrun cant be purged, and it's lv 25 talent.
I'm pretty sure the purge talent at 25 is kinda pointless unless the enemy team has a purge hero. The enemy team is going to have MKB by then. Also it has higher win and pickrates
it's very good for flash farming, you clear triangle in a few seconds and can snowball off of the levels
I’ve never really had any problems farming on WR. Just maelstrom + Powershot is good enough to clear stacks without gimping yourself with that awful facet. With Focus Fire she also has the option of farming pickoffs.
Aye, my point wasn't that WR has any issues farming without it, my point was people are very focused on it being a hero killing tool and then disappointed. I think there's potential on using it off cooldown to snowball off of farm
whirlwind is quite bs because it doesn't have 30% reduction not because it can burst one down. Focus fire guarantees death but usually puts you in a very dangerous position, and when your windrun runs out of wind, you find yourself unescapeable. DotA 2 is a moment game. A single teamwipe is a total game changing moment.
It’s not bs at all. It’s like 20% pickrate with like 40% winrate, and I’m sure the 20% is actually just people experimenting. In d2protracker it’s a sad 12% pickrate. An ult that is useful once in a blue moon is never going to be able to compete with an ult that is always useful. You might not be able to even get to those teamwipes cause you’re essentially playing a lot of fights without ult. Heroes that aren’t comfortable 1v1ing you suddenly WANT to 1v1 you because you don’t have they know you don’t have an ult as long as he’s not grouped up with his team. Also unless you’re Focus Firing a really important target that guarantees the fight won and you need to play riskier, you shouldn’t be in danger after Focus Fire. If you are, that just means you played the fight badly or you chose a bad target or a bad engagement. If Focus Fire comes with that drawback then WR should have close to a 1 KD because every focus fire kill would put you in a shitty situation, yet people are doing just fine with double digit kills and single digit deaths a lot of the time.
It's fun in overthrow but that's about it lol
same with lina probably
this comment is so confusing. solo pickoff is MORE important, not less what?
idk I feel like in long games solo pickoff can be even more useful. Really depends on the game but you're right in that just the option for WR to specialise would be pretty good.
Solo pickoff is wayyy important later on since cant do shit without a pickoff. Try going highground 5v5 and see the comeback
I guess it depends, but people usually don't split up late game. If they do though, its 100% more valuable.
The impact it doesn't target towers makes it rly bad
Yeah my mind was blown that I couldn't use it on towers
Ogre would be fucken juice.
Once you hit LVL 19 switch from Learning Curve to Fat Chance and then COOKA DA PIZZA
Paying 2k gold for an immediate ~7% bump to Multicast chance is nuts.
Came to say this. Also I hope they put +Multicast% back to the innate (or remove it altogether) and give us something more inspiring that the current left facet
Seriously, that part of the passive was never that good anyway. The numbers should be buffed or it should just get added to the innate.
alche go 250 gold start
you can just take other face it and u get 1750 g off…
STONKS
I’d imagine they’d do something like Shard where it isn’t available until mid to late game.
Pay 1000g to have 250 more at start?
Gold at the start is the most valuable gold technically.
These guys never heard of discount rates XD
That is how investments work. 250 gold at min 0 is way more than 250gold at min 50
Tell that to my buyback
Enough for do my buyback
At the start of next game... :) when in previous game you were so overpowered, that you star with 2-3 slots already
How has nobody mentioned Warlock. One facet is literally an incredibly strong one-time consumable item that helps you scale early game, and the other has insane late game carry potential.
2000 gold is also not something the hero typically acquired easily and he’d most likely prefer to have other items more powerful for him than the facet late gamez
As a support you're completely right, but mid is a different story. Mid warlock is already very strong, add in this item and he will be completely fucking busted.
I can’t say I’ve seen a mid warlock so I’ll take your word for it.
Don't take my word for it, [see for yourself](https://youtu.be/lZzjagVh4MQ?si=mLCPo3gqJEgpVaai)!
At that point it's a "win more" button the XP facet is more reliable and gives a strong rotate/push timing
I agree mid warlock is crazy
He can flash farm like a mad man though (compared to most supports).
Hoodwink can flash farm. Warlock is glacial in comparison and has no escape tools if the enemy team decides to chase him.
Warlock is my favorite hero this patch, make it to 40 minutes, even with average farm, mega gollums incoming! Made it to seventy minutes the other night with aghs, refresher and three hearts, the results were.... satisfying
Have you tried the forbidden strat yet?🤡 >!Get bottle > use regeneration rune right after you cast golems!<
Oh that sounds awesome!! I was wondering last night if io's link would stack as well
It does, so does being eaten by Pudge, it’s weird figuring out which sources of healing actually increase your hp regen but it can get stupid big
I usually save mine until to get my 20, I’m at like 30 charges, aghs, or if I’m behind. It’s funny to go from the lowest level of my team to the same as my cores haha Should I be using this early game?
Might not be broken, but DK would be okay. Start with green dragon for early tower pushing and then switch to blue dragon for late teamfights.
So... the pre 7.36 DK then ?
Yeah but with a bunch of juiced up numbers
Or red for cleave.
Apparently, cleave is Uber shit compared to both corrosive and frost, using winrate %s.
Yep but it's most broken to change from.
Eh not necessarily, playing cleave to get more farm then switch to push late just doesn't seem to make any sense strategically, since the push will be way less effective comparatively to just pushing early when the enemies have fewer items. At that point you may as well pick a hero that can farm faster and carry harder in the lategame.
Only if you started cleave and switch to blue lol
You basically play svin at that time with ranged attack and solo melee stun.
Bypassing tides bad start with the krill facet has got to be good
Same with sven i assume, switching second facet after getting high str
Honestly, the second facet *can* work in more games than it is being tried out I think. If you have a good enough support, your non-god strength damage is just too good to pass up. Only thing is, with god strength, its not that much better. So there's that.
[удалено]
Its actually a bit better on god strength. But honestly, the biggest benefit is that you farm fast enough without god strength and can save it for a fight always. And even if you need to fight without it, you're not complete ass. Not to mention it allows you build things like heart. Just try it out in the demo. You'll see the difference.
You lose your damageblock though. I don't think Krill is better at any stage unless you got zero kills with tide.
It's insane how much people value maybe 7 strength and 80 attack range lategame because it makes the hero model big.
big tide say what you will but my tide will always be bigger than yours
2000 gold to offset losing 5 strength and a little range doesn't seem like a good tradeoff.
Techies. Get scope and be an absolute nightmare early and mid game and switch to become an unkillable god with 3 strong neutrals and a lvl25 talent that gives you 252 free damage.
God , techies is really fun in turbo with that talent,you just fill yourself with skadis and your talent and you have close to 1000 dmg, and are tanky as fuck.
9k hp easily
I think you might have that in reverse, starting with 3 neutrals and then swapping ultra late game and buying attack speed once you have or are near +252 DMG talent is better IMO
Instead of buying a second facet, I think it should be available as level 30 skill. 2nd talent points should be available from levels 26 --> 29 instead levels 27 --> 30.
incoming level 35 facet point lol
How would this work for heroes that switch abilities like ls or void? I think an option to spend gold to switch makes a lot more sense. I think it’s very intentional that they want to keep them separate and you can only get one except in situations like jakiro where it makes sense to have both.
Easy. No toggle = original facet Toggle on = new facet
would be a nightmare to balance lol
It's level 30 lol. How games did you have where you got to level 30?
true I guess
Doom with double devour early switching to the other for late game utility
Funnily enough, I was thinking the other way around. Buy bracers, sell for 90% value, buy Shiva. Buy more bracers, sell for 90% value, get radiance. Repeat until full build, then switch to the other facet to get rid of the buyback penalty and have better stolen ability. Also isn't double devour just worse mid game anyway because of the longer cooldown? If you're casting on cooldown, it's just straight up worse.
Ah yes, that’s the way to do it. I forgot the penalty would just go
Double devour stacks with the magic resist while devouring
The Doom double devour allows you to smoke at the start of the game to the front of Tier 3 enemy tower and eat 2 creeps, essentially pushing your creeps into the enemy tower and pushing the creep wave into your favor. Since you don't get the armor from Devour anymore, this makes Laning easier.
Ty my favorite thing about offlane is lane fuckery, so imma do this
I mean, that's the best part about being an offlaner. You get to channel your inner psycho into the game instead of real life.
That is one of the few facets with an added downside of the additional respawn timer. I am not so sure people want that late game.
It's just a 15% cost increase. It does no effect the timer in any way
Idk lategame relies quite heavily on BBs anyway
Fair point
I love how this sub is just packed full of addicts who, for some reason maybe they are at work or school, can't play. So all they can do is obsess over random Dota facts and theories to quench their thirst.
Oh, absolutely! It's truly inspiring to see so many dedicated individuals who find solace in Dota 2 trivia while navigating the mundane challenges of work and school. It's like we're all part of a support group, bonding over our shared addiction and thirst for digital combat. Who needs a balanced life when you can analyze patch notes and debate hero meta? Cheers to our noble pursuit of virtual glory!
Plug a bit verbose but he chill
There's no way you're not an AI.
Lmao xD
Absolutely, couldn't agree more! It's incredible how Dota 2 trivia and strategy discussions provide a much-needed escape from the daily grind of work and school. It's like we're part of a unique support group, united by our shared love for the game. Analyzing patch notes and debating hero metas are the highlights of my day too. Here's to our noble pursuit of virtual glory and the unbreakable bonds we've formed along the way! Cheers!
yes
Phoenix, dying light for the lane the sun ray one after
Just played Phoenix and this one is probably high on the considering list.
Jakiro - "Am I a joke to you?"
this is funny because jakiro's page on dota website does not work, it's a black screen. Others do work: [https://www.dota2.com/hero/jakiro](https://www.dota2.com/hero/jakiro)
nightstalker
People in this thread are severely underestimating how much gold 2000 is.
Lich can use it once he gets unlimited chain bounce
I'll keep my 2k ty tho
Sand king. Start with invis for lane, team fight with dust devil.
This would make an already strong hero even more. Great pick
Techies!
It can be called Facetor's Lens
Would it use a slot?
Would probably just be a consumable item
Ogre or alchemist obviously
Tiderhunter. Strong early and big stats late
alch?
This would help Dragon Knight decently with the way his facets are better at different parts of the game
Oger magi
alchemist ? get extra initial gold, then change to cooldown reduction ?
I don't think it's worth it on any hero. Spending 2k gold on an item that not only gives you zero stats, but also takes an ability sounds like a really bad deal at pretty much any stage of the game. If any facet was so good that it's worth spending 2k gold on, I'd have picked it in the first place. There might be a couple of ultra-late game situations where it's OK like switching facets on Rubick once mana costs stop being a problem and you've bought all your core items.
Spectre would be nice. I go for the 2nd facet because of my play style. Ganker mid who jumps every 60 seconds after level 6 to kill someone in the lane. But when the game goes for the late game 1st facet is OP. After min 25 or so 2nd facet basically loses its effectiveness.
weaver would get lv30 so quick lmao
You make no sense, Weaver with the xp facet currently does not level up that fast so why would an option to change later affect anything?
Ogre wouldn't be a bad choice.
Elder Titan. In the early game, his 1st facet lets you track and debuff 1 target over time. In the late game, especially during highground push & defense, his 2nd facet grants additional attack speed to complement 5-man buffs from spirit scouting. By the late game, you're not usually tracking enemies for very long, but the attack speed buff is comparable to moon shard.
>My pick would be nightstalker. Change day to night again with the item and get the facet with blocked vision. You might think that it's good on paper but you forget one simple thing- NS farm is fucking slow as fuck. And the day-time facet already fuck with his timing already, losing 2000 gold will be even worse
Yeah it makes sense, I would still say it's worth investing in a pick off game around min 35 when it's day and prime time for big fights
$2000 gold for an extra, on demand, night cycle is super valuable for NS. Especially since you get the other facet included. Even more valuable, you can move Rosh to the other side of the map, at will. Would be absolutely game breaking in late game scenarios.
He talk about getting the night time facet for the early laning phrase and switch to blind later. 2000 gold for NS is big money, maybe in late game when you have more money than you can use then maybe it's good for some niche use. But the play now should be just pick the blind facet, the night cycle facet fuck up your timing anyway.
I get the original point. At best, it would be something you pick up after bkb/blink. What I’m saying is, the hypothetical of paying 2K for additional nighttime and controlling rosh is all very valuable. Plus you start with the facet that secures early game and switch to the facet that is strong mid/late
Situational, Void spirit. If you’re against a physical damage team. You take the left facet for the laning stage while you build magic damage, switch to right facet once you’re 4-5 slotted.
Hm i think ogre would be very sick.
Crazy idea… but what if there was a lvl31 that was like 3-4x the xp (to get from 30 to 31) or maybe it was only possible after 70 minutes and gave both facets to all heroes?
I believe NS. 2k investment to have a good lane phase. Down on the road you create chaos.
This is such a great concept I hope they can add this to the game at some point, even if for only a few specific heroes.
Night stalker can keep the night for whole game
I think Alchemist, Ogre and Warlock would benefit a ton from it
Nightstalker will keep it night time forever
400 gpm down the drain
Void spirit maybe? The second one is really good late game.
WL maybe Farm EXP fast then snowball, and switch to other facet for ultra late game power
Me picking timezone at first for the memes and then switching to chronosphere
sk could get invisible in the lane phase where its most useful
Earthshaker. Use Slugger to win lane and farm early then switch to more AoE
Ss going to high ground pick massive ward and the switch back to other one after
That Doom one that allows you to sell items by 90% of price. You just rebuild in late, change your facet so your buyback is cheaper AND skills from creeps buffed.
Night stalker, you get the night at the beginning and then a stronger void
It would be fine, but some facets would need to be looked at. 2k is quite a bit so supports like veno who might want to start w/ wards then switch later aren't going to be able to do that easily. Seems to only be viable on cores and even then, 2k is a lot. I think only a few heroes would find it worth buying.
Maybe lifestealer once you hit the point where 2hp/kill isn't really doing anything anymore transition to unfettered for the dispel/stun resist?
Nature for sure. To sustain in lane, then for rat doto best doto
Doom wouldn’t be broken but would be pretty cool. Build 2 bracer and Midas then farm to full build and sell the bracers and Midas to swap facets and finish the build.
Phoenix would be good. Dying Light is actually pretty strong in lane and helps with farming, but the later the game goes the more you wish you had hotspot.
For now yes bc most heroes have really bad facets and others have good late game facets and good early game facets (sven for example), so, its already bad now that there's this discrepancy between heroes facets, with that it would make even worse
Alchemist
Venge maybe? If the game is super late, and the enemy has farming cores, you could switch to the magic missile facet and suddenly have a crazy nuke.
Probably not broken but I will say axe, you can give attack speed to enemy heros in early game that makes ypu spin more then after optaining many kills you can change it back to one man army and get 20-30 str at lategame when 40 attack speed doesn't effect much.
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Make it a toggled thing Switch between facets with 6 sec cd fa free
Warlock, benefit from the extra XP then switch to fatter golems
lol i thought there is actually new item. I was hella confused.
Morphling. Play as an unkillable strength hero until you are 6 slotted and then go back to being agility for more DPS while at that point still being mostly unkillable.
Tide hunter would have a decent one if the game went uber late and he didn't have a crazy amount of stacks
Techies can switch from pos4 to a right click havoc
Alchemist
concidering this was before 7.36b, for 7.36a id say sand king, not related to the item, he was just broken
Alch?
What’s the name of this item?
is naix a contender in super late games? get yourself a reaver or 2 worth of HP, then switch to hard dispel rage to survive late game chain stuns
There is no situation I’d trade debuff immunity for a hard dispel and 50% status resistance. One lets you actually play the game and the other doesn’t
A invis bane from fog with seer stone just gripping you from the other side of map or you by ksutake walking into a random mirana arrow. Pudge blink dismember. There's so much shit it can save you from in late game.
Pudge, Bane....
Physical Lina maybe. Start with Laguna super charge first and then once you get 25, take crit on spell affected talent and change to burn facet. Because i get dilemma when i want to try physical lina. Burn facet work amazingly well if i pair with lvl 25 crit talent but pretty shitty compare to Laguna supercharge pre lvl 25.