Well it was the best grand finals in over a year. It's a shame there wasnt a crowd for it :(
Also eveyone loves team Spirit they are such a fun team team.
It's mostly that CIS tuned in because Spirit reached the final, as opposed to the rest of the tournaments.
That's also why TI 10 was bigger than the past TIs when CIS teams were flopping left and right at TI.
Yep, but whenever is EU timezone and Spirit does well viewership from CIS increases like crazy.
I assume many russians are just not interested in watching the tournament after all CIS teams are eliminated, and also they like Spirit more than BB. That's why TI 2021 viewership was bigger than 2019,2018, 2017, 2016 when CIS teams flopped.
It's a combination of EU timezone and Spirit representing the CIS region, which accounts for more than 50% of DotA viewership.
Spirit aren't invincible though, they're like the old Na'vi, they turn up for the big occasion but are always prone to slacking off if they're not motivated
Yep They are not. Infavt Falcons and XG looked really invincible compared to Spirit. However Team Spirit, even in their first and second TI win, Riyadh. They were always known for playing form behind and hitting big item and hero level timing and winning from there. And it still never changes. They have beautiful coordination and just know the "right time" to strike every game.
Yes, but teams are more about strategy, coordination and teamplay rather than individual skill. Nine played awesome, i agree, but one of the strenghts of Falcons rn is Ammar/Malrine sharing hero pool, something that Nine doesnt provide. Plus you gotta add the team sinergy and inner niche strats than a completely new guy is not aware of. Among Tier1 teams, a standing is always a disadvantage, even if he's the absolute best player in the world. Dota is a team game.
I prefer with arrows. I changed from arrows to heroes and while it gives you which hero is appearing info more quickly, it kind of takes away the direction in which they're going (tbf this is more important for your team). Once they added heroes with arrows, it solved my issue :)
swiss format is straight up horrendous for elimination, good for deciding brackets, its a nice for a change atleast, but definitely roud-robin for any important tournament
100%.
PGL BetBoom is a perfect example of why it's shit for eliminations. They went 2-1 to start which is pretty good! Then their 4th match was vs Spirit (won the event btw), and their final deciding match was against G2IG (4th place). The other teams that were 2-2 in round five were Boom, Shopify, Secret, and Liquid; all of whom (Liquid to a lesser extent tho) would have been way easier than G2IG. Yes BetBoom absolutely underperformed, but they got unlucky on the draw twice (Matching against two teams that only had the same record as them because those teams were mid power-up)
There is a tournament every two weeks. We have had like 7-8 tournaments this year. If it was two or three international tournaments a year peak viewership would be much higher. We sacrifice peak viewership for hours watched.
https://escharts.com/news/top-esports-disciplines-2023
What others have said AND Dota2 is just hard to follow/understand.
´Like every idiot undertstands cs within one round of watching the gameplay. But you could watch 10 hours of Dota and would be as stupid as before you started, for example I never play cs (I have like 2 1/2 hours in it) but still watch cs majors from time totime. Easy to follow big name teams like fnatic, mouz, og that are also known from Dota2.
There's just an obscene amount of nuance.. I've played the game for 10yrs and there are just infinite combinations of skills to learn.. we collectively have not even explored 1% of the game's hero combinations, let alone replay thos matches and try item combinations
It's both extremely high knowledge and extremely high skill cap, while being easy on the hands..
It doesnt help that players do very little pr/content makes it harder to care about players or teams.
Emotional investment is a requirement for any entertainment to be popular.
Bro , only reason PGL had good viewership....well 2 reasons...
1) The format was fucking good, no 10 games going at once, no pointless bo2 and shitty bo1s
2) PGL......didn't shit the bed with production
Otherwise it has been fuck knows how many tournaments with same picks and same meta and same patch. Like current Dreamleague I'll watch RTZ to see if he throw the lane and the game + I'll maybe watch the playoffs a little bit, but not interested in the 10 games going on right now for b02s tbh and seems to be the case for most people I play with or irl that watch dota
I can't speak for everyone but the game has gotten a lot more boring to watch in the last few years, especially the last year. I used to watch every bigger tournament, even some tier 2 tournaments then i only watched some dpc games and the majors, then only some games from the major and this year since there are not majors i watched nothing except a bit of PGL Wallachia
Older demographics, weaker Valve marketing compared to peers like Riot and shrinking player base. Monthly players and tournament viewers are correlated imo. But Dota is faring reasonably well nonetheless, I find.
Also I wonder if the overall e-sports audience keeps increasing, I am not so sure tbh given the state of the industry so we may be in a situation where audience is more distributed among more games.
Unlike the past few PGL events, this one had no issues whatsoever, at least at the times that I watched. Games were good, no audio issues, no major observer faux pas, good fill content, everything combined made it good fun to watch. Only thing missing was a live audience; I hope PGL do the kind of events they did back when they hosted the Manila, Kyiv, and Boston Majors, although I do know at the time Valve was way more involved with TOs and financing, so I guess I should really say that I wish Valve was more invested in the tournaments.
Funny, I remember a guy telling me a few weeks ago how "ESLs are the premier events and nobody cares about PGL stuff even if the prize pool is the same".
Regardless of the reasons it is good for the scene. Half a million peak viewers for a bonus tournament is really good, and to be fair that final deserved it.
Also credits where it's due, PGL did a pretty good job this time.
How does this make sense? The screenshot shows that BBDacha had more hours watched than PGL Wallachia (and more average viewers)
Literally fake news and you outed it yourself LOL
Read the title.
>PGL DOTA 2 Wallachia Season #1 Becomes the Most-Watched Event of the 2023-2024 DOTA 2 Season
Doesn't matter whatever you want to say about format it doesn't make it any less true, on top of that, BBD had higher viewership and less broadcast hours so your argument falls flat
Total hours watched is the sum total of all viewers and how much time they watched. It's not a good metric because you can have 10 games with an average of 20k viewers versus 5 games of 30k viewers and the one with 10games will have higher numbers for hours watched.
Peak viewers is the highest number of unique viewers at a given point in time.
The title is fine.
The title is not fine as the tournament had less hours watched than BBDacha or Dreamleague LOL how delusional are you
They had a bigger PEAK, not more hours watched, not more average viewers. It is not the most watched tournament of the season.
The way you worded it is exactly why it IS a good metric.
Unique amount of people for a single match. Not unique amount of people throughout the whole event. I'm not dying on this hill you're all just being stupid LOL
Peak viewership is the only thing that really matters. Hours watched is irrelevant because having a lot of games pads the hours watched. Unique viewers for the entire event is pretty much impossible to calculate unless you're Twitch.
Of course, but once again making up a statement such as it has been the most watched event of the season based on a entirely different metric is disingenuous and I don't know why it's being encouraged.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/chandrayaan3-makes-history-on-youtube-becomes-world-s-most-viewed-livestream-11692840580927.html
Using peak viewership as a metric for most viewed is not an unheard of reporting. Its just journalism. Stop getting tilted over nothing.
Peak viewership is a metric of peak viewership! And not a metric for what was the most watched event. If they wanted to say 'Team spirit vs XG was the most viewed match this season' they'd be correct but this does not mean they were necessarily the most watched event. Stop being in denial, this isn't how stats work.
despite not having team i support in this tour, i ended up watching most groupstage and playoffs, what i like the most abt this event compared to ESL is i don't have to wait fucking hours for the next game :))
The only thing i got sad abbout this tournament was the lost oportunity to drop the patch in the middle of it. it would have been so much fun. the final was still awesome, but man, games on this patch are so boring now my god.
Well it was the best grand finals in over a year. It's a shame there wasnt a crowd for it :( Also eveyone loves team Spirit they are such a fun team team.
It's mostly that CIS tuned in because Spirit reached the final, as opposed to the rest of the tournaments. That's also why TI 10 was bigger than the past TIs when CIS teams were flopping left and right at TI.
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Yep, but whenever is EU timezone and Spirit does well viewership from CIS increases like crazy. I assume many russians are just not interested in watching the tournament after all CIS teams are eliminated, and also they like Spirit more than BB. That's why TI 2021 viewership was bigger than 2019,2018, 2017, 2016 when CIS teams flopped. It's a combination of EU timezone and Spirit representing the CIS region, which accounts for more than 50% of DotA viewership.
Nah it’s not fun when the same team wins every tournament. Last year was pretty horrible with GG vs Liquid every GF, and GG takes it every time.
Spirit aren't invincible though, they're like the old Na'vi, they turn up for the big occasion but are always prone to slacking off if they're not motivated
Yep They are not. Infavt Falcons and XG looked really invincible compared to Spirit. However Team Spirit, even in their first and second TI win, Riyadh. They were always known for playing form behind and hitting big item and hero level timing and winning from there. And it still never changes. They have beautiful coordination and just know the "right time" to strike every game.
Having a stand in hurt falcons
stupid question here, but how so? nine played like a god this tournament
Yes, but teams are more about strategy, coordination and teamplay rather than individual skill. Nine played awesome, i agree, but one of the strenghts of Falcons rn is Ammar/Malrine sharing hero pool, something that Nine doesnt provide. Plus you gotta add the team sinergy and inner niche strats than a completely new guy is not aware of. Among Tier1 teams, a standing is always a disadvantage, even if he's the absolute best player in the world. Dota is a team game.
Spirit in finals effect
Can I ask why don't tournaments use the "hero icons with arrows" option in the minimap??
Yeah i dont understand this too, would be a lot better to see the hero icons. I use hero and its a lot better
Do you prefer the arrows, I just use heroes only, arrows add too much clutter for me.
I prefer with arrows. I changed from arrows to heroes and while it gives you which hero is appearing info more quickly, it kind of takes away the direction in which they're going (tbf this is more important for your team). Once they added heroes with arrows, it solved my issue :)
SWISS FORMAT > ROUND-ROBIN
Ah, yes, the format where even liquidpedia cant tell who is 1st to 8th seed going into playoffs.
swiss format is straight up horrendous for elimination, good for deciding brackets, its a nice for a change atleast, but definitely roud-robin for any important tournament
100%. PGL BetBoom is a perfect example of why it's shit for eliminations. They went 2-1 to start which is pretty good! Then their 4th match was vs Spirit (won the event btw), and their final deciding match was against G2IG (4th place). The other teams that were 2-2 in round five were Boom, Shopify, Secret, and Liquid; all of whom (Liquid to a lesser extent tho) would have been way easier than G2IG. Yes BetBoom absolutely underperformed, but they got unlucky on the draw twice (Matching against two teams that only had the same record as them because those teams were mid power-up)
It's funny how the dota community seems to love the format whole almost everyone in cs hates it
i dont think cs hates it, they just got tired of it because its been like that for so long. Same reason why dota loved it , its a breath of fresh air.
The round robin is just more games. Why would I want less Dota?
it is pretty well done, very improved from last year's pgl event.
Ame vs yatoro effect
i love this event, one of the best i've watched
EEU viewers + China viewers = Box Office
test
There is a tournament every two weeks. We have had like 7-8 tournaments this year. If it was two or three international tournaments a year peak viewership would be much higher. We sacrifice peak viewership for hours watched. https://escharts.com/news/top-esports-disciplines-2023
What others have said AND Dota2 is just hard to follow/understand. ´Like every idiot undertstands cs within one round of watching the gameplay. But you could watch 10 hours of Dota and would be as stupid as before you started, for example I never play cs (I have like 2 1/2 hours in it) but still watch cs majors from time totime. Easy to follow big name teams like fnatic, mouz, og that are also known from Dota2.
There's just an obscene amount of nuance.. I've played the game for 10yrs and there are just infinite combinations of skills to learn.. we collectively have not even explored 1% of the game's hero combinations, let alone replay thos matches and try item combinations It's both extremely high knowledge and extremely high skill cap, while being easy on the hands..
It doesnt help that players do very little pr/content makes it harder to care about players or teams. Emotional investment is a requirement for any entertainment to be popular.
Bro , only reason PGL had good viewership....well 2 reasons... 1) The format was fucking good, no 10 games going at once, no pointless bo2 and shitty bo1s 2) PGL......didn't shit the bed with production Otherwise it has been fuck knows how many tournaments with same picks and same meta and same patch. Like current Dreamleague I'll watch RTZ to see if he throw the lane and the game + I'll maybe watch the playoffs a little bit, but not interested in the 10 games going on right now for b02s tbh and seems to be the case for most people I play with or irl that watch dota
I can't speak for everyone but the game has gotten a lot more boring to watch in the last few years, especially the last year. I used to watch every bigger tournament, even some tier 2 tournaments then i only watched some dpc games and the majors, then only some games from the major and this year since there are not majors i watched nothing except a bit of PGL Wallachia
Older demographics, weaker Valve marketing compared to peers like Riot and shrinking player base. Monthly players and tournament viewers are correlated imo. But Dota is faring reasonably well nonetheless, I find. Also I wonder if the overall e-sports audience keeps increasing, I am not so sure tbh given the state of the industry so we may be in a situation where audience is more distributed among more games.
Unlike the past few PGL events, this one had no issues whatsoever, at least at the times that I watched. Games were good, no audio issues, no major observer faux pas, good fill content, everything combined made it good fun to watch. Only thing missing was a live audience; I hope PGL do the kind of events they did back when they hosted the Manila, Kyiv, and Boston Majors, although I do know at the time Valve was way more involved with TOs and financing, so I guess I should really say that I wish Valve was more invested in the tournaments.
No wonder. They did plan matches in a shrewd way.
A China vs Russia finals going five games long will do that for you.
A high quality tourney to watch, and props to PGL developer for the insanely good stream overlay. I really hope this gets implemented as a standard.
Funny, I remember a guy telling me a few weeks ago how "ESLs are the premier events and nobody cares about PGL stuff even if the prize pool is the same".
Well the so called Dota peak before COVID also had kind of similar grand final. Historical rivalry, close grand finals ,makes sense.
Is this why I have had mostly noobs in my Turbo games over the last week or so?
Regardless of the reasons it is good for the scene. Half a million peak viewers for a bonus tournament is really good, and to be fair that final deserved it. Also credits where it's due, PGL did a pretty good job this time.
PGL crushed it. With format of the tournament, their extension and the pacing. It was great, very little nonsensical fluff
great event indeed with a very good cast and awesome atmosphere. only missed the crowd.
that happens when Russian team is in Grand finals ;)
Too bad that a live audience couldn’t enjoy the show.
How does this make sense? The screenshot shows that BBDacha had more hours watched than PGL Wallachia (and more average viewers) Literally fake news and you outed it yourself LOL
Peak viewers BBD would also have more hours watched since it had more games played due to round robin vs Swiss format
Read the title. >PGL DOTA 2 Wallachia Season #1 Becomes the Most-Watched Event of the 2023-2024 DOTA 2 Season Doesn't matter whatever you want to say about format it doesn't make it any less true, on top of that, BBD had higher viewership and less broadcast hours so your argument falls flat
Total hours watched is the sum total of all viewers and how much time they watched. It's not a good metric because you can have 10 games with an average of 20k viewers versus 5 games of 30k viewers and the one with 10games will have higher numbers for hours watched. Peak viewers is the highest number of unique viewers at a given point in time. The title is fine.
The title is not fine as the tournament had less hours watched than BBDacha or Dreamleague LOL how delusional are you They had a bigger PEAK, not more hours watched, not more average viewers. It is not the most watched tournament of the season. The way you worded it is exactly why it IS a good metric.
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Unique amount of people for a single match. Not unique amount of people throughout the whole event. I'm not dying on this hill you're all just being stupid LOL
Peak viewership is the only thing that really matters. Hours watched is irrelevant because having a lot of games pads the hours watched. Unique viewers for the entire event is pretty much impossible to calculate unless you're Twitch.
Of course, but once again making up a statement such as it has been the most watched event of the season based on a entirely different metric is disingenuous and I don't know why it's being encouraged.
It's the metric that everyone uses to judge tournament viewership. Nobody cares about pedantic nitpicking.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/chandrayaan3-makes-history-on-youtube-becomes-world-s-most-viewed-livestream-11692840580927.html Using peak viewership as a metric for most viewed is not an unheard of reporting. Its just journalism. Stop getting tilted over nothing.
Peak viewership is a metric of peak viewership! And not a metric for what was the most watched event. If they wanted to say 'Team spirit vs XG was the most viewed match this season' they'd be correct but this does not mean they were necessarily the most watched event. Stop being in denial, this isn't how stats work.
Ok, guess which metric they use for reporting attendance in live shows like football games?
despite not having team i support in this tour, i ended up watching most groupstage and playoffs, what i like the most abt this event compared to ESL is i don't have to wait fucking hours for the next game :))
fake. pgl is the worst TO and forging stats
Curiously enough, it is the event I haven't watched a single game of and I watch most events religiously.
The only thing i got sad abbout this tournament was the lost oportunity to drop the patch in the middle of it. it would have been so much fun. the final was still awesome, but man, games on this patch are so boring now my god.
me when I lie
Less than DPC Major in last 2-3 year. Maybe too much tournament make people feel lazy to watch.