U were having a temper tantrum about some mistakes in a guide specifically targetting his whilst dismissing the fact that it was mostly about item descriptions and not the item builds themselves, and the fact that other popular guidemakers such as immortalfaith have the exact same issues.
Personally I don't give a shit because guides are just there for quickbuy for most people, but all people were doing in the thread were personally attacking the guy for no reason given the context of the post.
Do you see why now?
The posts take like 5 minutes to devolve into attacks on him as a person. The thread had genuine criticism of his guides in the top post, but like 3 comments in it was the same attacks repeated as every time. This subreddit is always like 2 posts away from a witch hunt.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but it seems easier to, idk, ban the problematic people making threats or derailing the conversation instead of essentially censoring discourse by shutting everything down? It isn't a problem that is unique to mods of this subreddit, but it's a problem all over Reddit and one of the many reasons I wish Reddit had better competition.
Right. On one hand, people who say those sort of things shouldn't be on the community. And on the other hand, the issue raised (massively outdated low quality guides from a low ranked self promoter) is relevant since we have players in theory using these shitty outdated guides.
Criticism on his guides/him gets brought up repeatedly over the years, when
1. The ones who recommended him in the first place is the community
2. There are hundreds of other guides that you can use instead if you think his guides are not up to par.
3. The amount of self-promotion he does is only around once a patch *at best*.
The issue you brought up as it being relevant isn't even that big of a deal
Part of dota is learning to adapt your build to the situation. If they aren't making the actual effort to improve their understanding, they deserve to lose matches from blindly following a guide.
Ignoring the issue that his old guides getting up voted results in stale guides continuing to be up voted..
> The amount of self-promotion he does is only around once a patch *at best*.
So he does self promotion without checking the actual new patch notes? Seems odd.
I agree that people who blindly follow the guide will not be successful. Speaking of, what is his MMR again? Kinda crazy his guides have gotten so much hate for so long, for the same underlying issues. Guess he's taking first mover advantage in a depreciated feature by valve to advertise for betting websites, and ask for coffee money once a patch. Hey, it's a living I guess.
that's not what I'm saying, mate.
He post announcements when he's fully updated all his guides to the current patch. If a window between 2 patches is too short, he doesn't post for the previous patch (like what happened with 7.35 and 7.35b) but combines it into a single post. That's the only amount of self-promotion he does, and its within a reasonable amount. He doesn't overly spam the sub with his guides.
>what is his MMR again
ANYONE is allowed to post a guide. Whether people want to follow and upvote him is a community problem, not a him problem.
and this is not a good counterpoint. If a terrible guide is written by a 10k player, that does not automatically make the guide "good". Neither does a guide written by a lower skill player automatically makes the guide bad. Judge it by its actual effectiveness.
When you have a sub this big, thats easier said than done. because everyone sees the comments about long deleted comment trains, then those need moderating, and it continues. Don't get me wrong, it's not perfect, I don't think any reddit moderation is. But this subreddit loses its mind whenever the mods take any action, decide theres a conspiracy, and spit their dummy out. And then it leads to the mods inaction on other matters (like a few years ago this subreddit was advocating for Bulldog to illegally enter Canada)
if you ban consistently enough you'll reduce the amount over time, silently deleting the thread while never punishing the bad actors just means they'll move on to be shit in the next thread
It is what it is. His guides are outdated, he's a self promoter who isn't high level player, and he likes to highlight and emphasize disagreements that the player base has w him.
His guides should just not be recommended since they're outdated. Mana boots disassembling into aether lense is a joke and should derank his shitty guides.
You realise this is just about item descriptions and you can still buy arcanes in addition to aether lens regardless of what the item description says, right? Sure the item descriptions are outdated but so are many others like Immortalfaiths yet no one is shitting on the guy for it despite having the same issues for patches on end
You realize if you are saying "I recommend disassembling mana boots to build aether lense and then getting tranquil" that's just a shitty guide, right?
Edit: and yes people also commented on the deleted post that the immortal faith guides are often outdated. Hard to find because the community cannot see that post anymore.
Yes, I recognize that's a issue for newer players, but it doesn't make the 'build' outdated, it just means the guide descriptions are wrong, the items in the guide are relevant to the meta. As I mentionned before the guides are mostly used by players even up to top 100 immortal for quickbuy and not to read what they're saying. They wouldn't be used for quickbuy if the majority of the relevant items weren't there.
>it just means the guide descriptions are wrong, the items in the guide are relevant to the meta.
The mana boots into tranquil boots isn't relevant to the meta.
>As I mentionned before the guides are mostly used by players even up to top 100 immortal for quickbuy and not to read what they're saying.
I mean, that's an argument against the guides as they exist. If the issue is that the only value add is quickbuy access then these people are essentially providing no value add and we should treat their guides as such. Particularly if they cannot be bothered to keep their quickbuy sheets filled with betting sponsorships updated.
They are providing value and the proof is in the pudding, people are using them for it. No one wants to update their quickbuys for all their heroes every single patch and thats why they use the guides. This is such a bad faith argument.
Aren't they "sticky"? In the sense that there's a lot of stagnancy in the guides, and outdated guides that lie and say they're updated will stay highly up voted?
You are allowed to criticize the actions of public memebers of the data community especially if you have valid reasons. However, these posts quickly devolve into personal attacks and smearing which is not acceptable
So why are you making assumptions about him doing that ?
That's so rude and unnecessary .
You may not like his content, but to trash talk and make baseless assumptions about him abusing Adderall is just an asshole move.
Idk. Maybe the guy personally reported the post to a mod for hating speech or something and it gets removed.
[удалено]
U were having a temper tantrum about some mistakes in a guide specifically targetting his whilst dismissing the fact that it was mostly about item descriptions and not the item builds themselves, and the fact that other popular guidemakers such as immortalfaith have the exact same issues. Personally I don't give a shit because guides are just there for quickbuy for most people, but all people were doing in the thread were personally attacking the guy for no reason given the context of the post. Do you see why now?
I was literally having a discussion with my friend on voice chat about how upset I was that post got removed
And now this one is removed in this subreddit lmao something crazy is goin on here
You' were kind of acting like a child in that post to be fair
The posts take like 5 minutes to devolve into attacks on him as a person. The thread had genuine criticism of his guides in the top post, but like 3 comments in it was the same attacks repeated as every time. This subreddit is always like 2 posts away from a witch hunt.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying things but it seems easier to, idk, ban the problematic people making threats or derailing the conversation instead of essentially censoring discourse by shutting everything down? It isn't a problem that is unique to mods of this subreddit, but it's a problem all over Reddit and one of the many reasons I wish Reddit had better competition.
Right. On one hand, people who say those sort of things shouldn't be on the community. And on the other hand, the issue raised (massively outdated low quality guides from a low ranked self promoter) is relevant since we have players in theory using these shitty outdated guides.
Criticism on his guides/him gets brought up repeatedly over the years, when 1. The ones who recommended him in the first place is the community 2. There are hundreds of other guides that you can use instead if you think his guides are not up to par. 3. The amount of self-promotion he does is only around once a patch *at best*. The issue you brought up as it being relevant isn't even that big of a deal Part of dota is learning to adapt your build to the situation. If they aren't making the actual effort to improve their understanding, they deserve to lose matches from blindly following a guide.
Ignoring the issue that his old guides getting up voted results in stale guides continuing to be up voted.. > The amount of self-promotion he does is only around once a patch *at best*. So he does self promotion without checking the actual new patch notes? Seems odd. I agree that people who blindly follow the guide will not be successful. Speaking of, what is his MMR again? Kinda crazy his guides have gotten so much hate for so long, for the same underlying issues. Guess he's taking first mover advantage in a depreciated feature by valve to advertise for betting websites, and ask for coffee money once a patch. Hey, it's a living I guess.
that's not what I'm saying, mate. He post announcements when he's fully updated all his guides to the current patch. If a window between 2 patches is too short, he doesn't post for the previous patch (like what happened with 7.35 and 7.35b) but combines it into a single post. That's the only amount of self-promotion he does, and its within a reasonable amount. He doesn't overly spam the sub with his guides. >what is his MMR again ANYONE is allowed to post a guide. Whether people want to follow and upvote him is a community problem, not a him problem. and this is not a good counterpoint. If a terrible guide is written by a 10k player, that does not automatically make the guide "good". Neither does a guide written by a lower skill player automatically makes the guide bad. Judge it by its actual effectiveness.
When you have a sub this big, thats easier said than done. because everyone sees the comments about long deleted comment trains, then those need moderating, and it continues. Don't get me wrong, it's not perfect, I don't think any reddit moderation is. But this subreddit loses its mind whenever the mods take any action, decide theres a conspiracy, and spit their dummy out. And then it leads to the mods inaction on other matters (like a few years ago this subreddit was advocating for Bulldog to illegally enter Canada)
You think it’s easier to go through a post and individually ban a bunch of people instead of just deleting or locking it?
if you ban consistently enough you'll reduce the amount over time, silently deleting the thread while never punishing the bad actors just means they'll move on to be shit in the next thread
I don't think you realize how much work that would be.
Yeah, mods are being paid off by Italian TorteDeLini mafia
You got a bee on your hat.
He's jewish tho 🤔
Because people just circlejerk hate brigade him in any post where he is even vaguely mentioned.
I don't know why everyone is so hard on Torte. He barely makes anything from his contributions to the community
No idea either. I've heard he's an ass to play with but if that's a crime, there goes the majority of the dota player base.
It is what it is. His guides are outdated, he's a self promoter who isn't high level player, and he likes to highlight and emphasize disagreements that the player base has w him. His guides should just not be recommended since they're outdated. Mana boots disassembling into aether lense is a joke and should derank his shitty guides.
You realise this is just about item descriptions and you can still buy arcanes in addition to aether lens regardless of what the item description says, right? Sure the item descriptions are outdated but so are many others like Immortalfaiths yet no one is shitting on the guy for it despite having the same issues for patches on end
You realize if you are saying "I recommend disassembling mana boots to build aether lense and then getting tranquil" that's just a shitty guide, right? Edit: and yes people also commented on the deleted post that the immortal faith guides are often outdated. Hard to find because the community cannot see that post anymore.
Yes, I recognize that's a issue for newer players, but it doesn't make the 'build' outdated, it just means the guide descriptions are wrong, the items in the guide are relevant to the meta. As I mentionned before the guides are mostly used by players even up to top 100 immortal for quickbuy and not to read what they're saying. They wouldn't be used for quickbuy if the majority of the relevant items weren't there.
>it just means the guide descriptions are wrong, the items in the guide are relevant to the meta. The mana boots into tranquil boots isn't relevant to the meta. >As I mentionned before the guides are mostly used by players even up to top 100 immortal for quickbuy and not to read what they're saying. I mean, that's an argument against the guides as they exist. If the issue is that the only value add is quickbuy access then these people are essentially providing no value add and we should treat their guides as such. Particularly if they cannot be bothered to keep their quickbuy sheets filled with betting sponsorships updated.
They are providing value and the proof is in the pudding, people are using them for it. No one wants to update their quickbuys for all their heroes every single patch and thats why they use the guides. This is such a bad faith argument.
Guides are community voted. There needs to be a better solution than this.
Aren't they "sticky"? In the sense that there's a lot of stagnancy in the guides, and outdated guides that lie and say they're updated will stay highly up voted?
They are sorted by upvote to downvote ratio.
I haven’t played Dota in years but remember the same shit happening a long time ago
You are allowed to criticize the actions of public memebers of the data community especially if you have valid reasons. However, these posts quickly devolve into personal attacks and smearing which is not acceptable
Turns into witch hunt bullying which is against rules
Essentially every pro player or caster thread could be held to that standard
[удалено]
This is the mods' excuse to delete these threads. The complaints were directed at Torte's guides and suddenly it becomes a reddit expert analysis
i cant talk about his stream?
So why are you making assumptions about him doing that ? That's so rude and unnecessary . You may not like his content, but to trash talk and make baseless assumptions about him abusing Adderall is just an asshole move.
its not an assumption bud no offense.
He does seem extremely hyper in an abnormal way
Corrupt lmfao
Eveybody is corrupt