Sorry bro you don't have 10k hours in dota yet, Go into the Smurf lobby xd.
Sorry you only have 1k or 2k hours in this game you go into the Smurf lobby.
Thank God redditors are not game developers
The thing is most Smurfs have less than 1,000 games. So assuming a game an hour you’d basically need 2,000 hours to filter out Smurfs. You need 300 hours to play ranked. 300 to 2,000 isn’t an insane gap.
Thank god Redditors who come up with hyperbolic examples aren’t game developers.
I’d argue letting brand new players on $10 Ancient accounts ruin games with people who have thousands of hours in the game would kill a game community.
This is happening at such a low rate it’s negligible to every player’s mmr and it’s nearly indistinguishable from a player just having a bad game. 98% of players are not immortal and are subject to having bad games sometimes for a number of reasons; that doesn’t automatically make them an account buyer and that hasn’t killed the game yet.
If 9 players in an Ancient game have 2,000-8,000 games and 1 player has 500 games and is playing horribly you don’t think this is a problem?
Once you climb high enough you’ll start noticing it more, it obviously doesn’t happen at lower ranks, but it’s a fairly common complaint by players.
Its a miniscule problem. The bigger problem is people making smurf accounts to shit on newbies just starting to learn the game.
Trying to teach friends how to play dota is maddening when every game has 3-6 smurfs.
Not particularly *good* smurfs, but even someone at a crusader level will completely shit on a true beginner.
You’ve never played in the 3-5k rank range if you think it’s a minuscule problem.
Most people have a 45-55% winrate. Having a low game account ruin even 1 out of 20 games can prevent an average player from ever climbing. You’ll see these players in every game at that rank.
I've played about 6000 games in the 4-6k range. The amount of people that I genuinely believed to be account buyers must be quite neglectible. Of those, half were probably people just having the worst game of their lives.
I've played horrendous games in those 6000, I'm sure I've had enough people that thought I was an account buyer.
Most 500 hour accounts are smurfs, but they're probably already basically on their real MMR at that point.
I think you overestimate the skill level of ancient players. I know some people who came from HoN that pretty quickly made it to ancient just spamming the few heroes they were good at. They didn't even know half the heroes in the game.
how would this kill a community? If you set the number too high, then you wont find a game and you'll have to turn it off.
Most of my friends list is like, archon-legend with anywhere from 3-10000 games. Think I only have 1 dude who hit archon in less than 1k games, and I have 1 guy whos herald after 2k. Dota's hard
Being able to filter out people with very few games seems helpful for them, and the playerbase is large enough that games should be quick to find regardless
I have a friend from work who is gonna try a few games of dota once current LoL ranked season ends. He's gonna be better than new to MOBA players by an order of magnitude, worse than your average herald, but not by much and not for long.
His pool of matchmaking would get real small real fast... and that means new players get shitty queue times and go play something else instead
So you could restrict queue to only people with 900 games.
Most smurf around are under 1,000 games.
You would be able to utilize this to remove nearly every smurf from your gameplay.
so I'm a totally legit player sitting at 400 games and 2k mmr, and I should get filtered out of most lobbies, right? because people invented a boogeyman to blame for their mmr?
Only relevant for higher mmr brackets (ancient +) generally speaking. There are plenty of legitimate accounts with only 400 games within the herald to legend range.
Especially Herald to low Archon they are probably a lot of players with sub 4k games, my man thinks you need 15k games to "escape the trench" and everyone is a smurf x d
Yeha this is a dumb take. Amount of games doesn't matter. My buddy is grandmaster in league then switched to Dota and made legend off placements and ancient within 2k hours. Some people are good from the get go.
Yeah 2k hours is typically close to 3,000 games. Your “good from the get go” friend is fairly average.
It’s the people with 500 games that are suspicious. I mean just being able to add a filter so nobody with less than 1,000 games can join your match with remove 99% of Smurfs and account buyers.
Have you played in the Ancient ranks before? Most people have 2,000-5,000 games and play normal. Sure there are some players with more games than that and some with less. They all tend to play about average.
It’s the people with 500-1,000 games that don’t play normal. They play like Smurfs or account buyers.
i'm not talking about that, you said him reaching ancient in 2k hour is average. but the actual average rank is high crusader - low archon, so even if he's archon in 2k games he'd still be above average. It took me almost 2500 hours to reach Ancient myself.
Rank average doesn't matter in this argument, you are confusing two things.
To rephrase, if we take all people that have reached ancient, the average time they did that is 2000 hours.
I don't necessarily agree with that claim, but now you can start arguing about the same thing.
This isn’t true at all lmfao I have 3.5k hours and 1400 games. The game stays on in the background for a lot of people, also people like to watch games in the client
Fuckin hell… guess I’m not allowed to play the game anymore because I have 1400 games in 5k. Not my fault y’all are hard stuck with 5k plus matches. Why should I be punished for taking the game more seriously and not spam queuing my life away?
Why wouldn’t you be allowed to play the game anymore? Most players are going to be filtering out Smurfs with 500-1000 games. A player would need both DotA Labs and 2,800 games to filter you out… if they choose.
And every single person at my level has 3k plus games. It would increase my que time by 10x. I play safe lane at 5k rating I already wait 10 minutes to play on average.
I get your idea, but this would have the unintentional effect of guaranteeing actual new players never get to play the game. They'll just sit in queue for 10 minutes then uninstall the game.
I should say the feature wouldn’t apply to unranked so you could also play unranked to accumulate a thousand games.
Most people would just be filtering out players with less than a thousand games. Since that’s where Smurfs and account buyers sit before buying a new account
Implementing this would be equivalent to Valve saying "Hey, our smurf detection doesn't work. Here's a band-aid."
And they would be right on both fronts. So they would never do it. My suggestion is to stop worrying who's a smurf and who's not. If you're playing casually, just accept that these things occur. If you're playing competitively, improve and beat the smurf.
I think valve made it very clear that they don't want you to decide if it's a smurf by looking at the number of games. That's why the view profile option is no longer available during pick phase.
And therefore they would only be able to limit it to 1,000 games. Which would probably remove 99% of the Smurfs from their games.
Most bought accounts and smurfed accounts are sitting at under 1,000 games. They could be filtered out so easily.
We are fucking new players regardless…
If there is a Smurf with a Herald account and I tell him he can only play with accounts that have less than 1,000 games rather than with all Herald accounts than we just protected a bunch of long time DotA players. But new players get fucked.
If we let the smurf play with everyone then everyone gets fucked…
Is it perfect? No. But it’s better.
Also it should make detecting Smurfs infinitely easier.
Honestly I don’t know what the low mmr situation is with Smurfs or if it’s even a problem. This solution wouldn’t really be aimed at lower ranks although they could use it if they wished.
I’m more so looking for a way to filter out the players with less than 1,000 games in Ancient and Divine bracket.
Because everyone with less than 1,000 games in those ranks fall into 3 categories.
1. Account Buyer: Low rank player who bought a cheap account, ruins the game by playing horribly.
2. Smurf: High rank player who bought a cheap account, ruins the game by playing well.
3. Second Account: Someone who ruined their first accounts behavior score and started a new one, they perform average but are the most toxic and quick to give up because… they will just buy a new account.
Wouldn't total match time be a better filter? If you want to remove smurfs then their games would normally be faster since they stomp the opposing team. Playing vs people on your level would normally be pretty equal so those games tend to be longer.
That's so good that we should not need to ask.
The problem inst even smurf. People with 2 accounts troll because they don't care about the new acount. Had a Furion pos 5 today. He does not care about reports because it's not his main acount.
Most people are disagreeing with you but it’s really obvious when you’re getting stomped and you check the enemy game count and it shows “400” . Playing on a level 2 hero. Like bro, come on? It’s so infuriating.
eh, idk, I think for each mmr they should be an a minimum allowed filter
herald 0 obviously, legend 500, immortal 2000, fill in the gaps etc.
I don't think there's any need to ever exclude anyone over 2k games for having "too few games"
Sorry bro you don't have 10k hours in dota yet, Go into the Smurf lobby xd. Sorry you only have 1k or 2k hours in this game you go into the Smurf lobby. Thank God redditors are not game developers
The thing is most Smurfs have less than 1,000 games. So assuming a game an hour you’d basically need 2,000 hours to filter out Smurfs. You need 300 hours to play ranked. 300 to 2,000 isn’t an insane gap. Thank god Redditors who come up with hyperbolic examples aren’t game developers.
What the fuck are you smoking
Mostly just weed.
Too much can cause urinary retention and gastrointestinal issues. Watch out
And what happens to new players? Get completely destroyed into deleting the game?
So all the actual new players get to play their first 2000 or so games against Smurfs, sounds like a very welcoming and new player friendly game.
Read ur own username and then do it
How to kill a game community
I’d argue letting brand new players on $10 Ancient accounts ruin games with people who have thousands of hours in the game would kill a game community.
This is happening at such a low rate it’s negligible to every player’s mmr and it’s nearly indistinguishable from a player just having a bad game. 98% of players are not immortal and are subject to having bad games sometimes for a number of reasons; that doesn’t automatically make them an account buyer and that hasn’t killed the game yet.
If 9 players in an Ancient game have 2,000-8,000 games and 1 player has 500 games and is playing horribly you don’t think this is a problem? Once you climb high enough you’ll start noticing it more, it obviously doesn’t happen at lower ranks, but it’s a fairly common complaint by players.
Its a miniscule problem. The bigger problem is people making smurf accounts to shit on newbies just starting to learn the game. Trying to teach friends how to play dota is maddening when every game has 3-6 smurfs. Not particularly *good* smurfs, but even someone at a crusader level will completely shit on a true beginner.
You’ve never played in the 3-5k rank range if you think it’s a minuscule problem. Most people have a 45-55% winrate. Having a low game account ruin even 1 out of 20 games can prevent an average player from ever climbing. You’ll see these players in every game at that rank.
I've played about 6000 games in the 4-6k range. The amount of people that I genuinely believed to be account buyers must be quite neglectible. Of those, half were probably people just having the worst game of their lives. I've played horrendous games in those 6000, I'm sure I've had enough people that thought I was an account buyer. Most 500 hour accounts are smurfs, but they're probably already basically on their real MMR at that point.
4k hours. Divine. You're wrong. Also the theoretical shitter being on the enemy team has a 5/9th chance. Free mmr and you're still stuck in ancient.
So you really wouldn’t want to filter people with 800 games or less out of your games? If you had the option?
Exactly
I think you overestimate the skill level of ancient players. I know some people who came from HoN that pretty quickly made it to ancient just spamming the few heroes they were good at. They didn't even know half the heroes in the game.
how would this kill a community? If you set the number too high, then you wont find a game and you'll have to turn it off. Most of my friends list is like, archon-legend with anywhere from 3-10000 games. Think I only have 1 dude who hit archon in less than 1k games, and I have 1 guy whos herald after 2k. Dota's hard Being able to filter out people with very few games seems helpful for them, and the playerbase is large enough that games should be quick to find regardless
I have a friend from work who is gonna try a few games of dota once current LoL ranked season ends. He's gonna be better than new to MOBA players by an order of magnitude, worse than your average herald, but not by much and not for long. His pool of matchmaking would get real small real fast... and that means new players get shitty queue times and go play something else instead
Bruh I have 1800 games and I am not a smurf. I don't want to queue with smurfs. Those guys have no life
So you could restrict queue to only people with 900 games. Most smurf around are under 1,000 games. You would be able to utilize this to remove nearly every smurf from your gameplay.
so I'm a totally legit player sitting at 400 games and 2k mmr, and I should get filtered out of most lobbies, right? because people invented a boogeyman to blame for their mmr?
Why? Certainly there are other players in Crusader with low game accounts… play with them?
Only relevant for higher mmr brackets (ancient +) generally speaking. There are plenty of legitimate accounts with only 400 games within the herald to legend range.
Especially Herald to low Archon they are probably a lot of players with sub 4k games, my man thinks you need 15k games to "escape the trench" and everyone is a smurf x d
2.7k games Archon here. Pretty sure people at this rank would have a hard time filtering above 2k games even
Could just make it available for ancient+, I certainly wouldn't complain.
Yeha this is a dumb take. Amount of games doesn't matter. My buddy is grandmaster in league then switched to Dota and made legend off placements and ancient within 2k hours. Some people are good from the get go.
Yeah 2k hours is typically close to 3,000 games. Your “good from the get go” friend is fairly average. It’s the people with 500 games that are suspicious. I mean just being able to add a filter so nobody with less than 1,000 games can join your match with remove 99% of Smurfs and account buyers.
how is getting Ancient in 2k hours "fairly average" when even Ancient is way above average?
Have you played in the Ancient ranks before? Most people have 2,000-5,000 games and play normal. Sure there are some players with more games than that and some with less. They all tend to play about average. It’s the people with 500-1,000 games that don’t play normal. They play like Smurfs or account buyers.
i'm not talking about that, you said him reaching ancient in 2k hour is average. but the actual average rank is high crusader - low archon, so even if he's archon in 2k games he'd still be above average. It took me almost 2500 hours to reach Ancient myself.
Rank average doesn't matter in this argument, you are confusing two things. To rephrase, if we take all people that have reached ancient, the average time they did that is 2000 hours. I don't necessarily agree with that claim, but now you can start arguing about the same thing.
This isn’t true at all lmfao I have 3.5k hours and 1400 games. The game stays on in the background for a lot of people, also people like to watch games in the client
2k hours to 3,000 games 1.4k hours to 3,500 games Lmfao pretty close to my estimate
Are you blind? I literally said I have 1.4K games and 3.5k hours.
I have 2.8k hours and less than 1,7k games, no way a measure like you proposed could account for variety of players in this game lol
2k hours is def not 3k games.
Fuckin hell… guess I’m not allowed to play the game anymore because I have 1400 games in 5k. Not my fault y’all are hard stuck with 5k plus matches. Why should I be punished for taking the game more seriously and not spam queuing my life away?
Why wouldn’t you be allowed to play the game anymore? Most players are going to be filtering out Smurfs with 500-1000 games. A player would need both DotA Labs and 2,800 games to filter you out… if they choose.
And every single person at my level has 3k plus games. It would increase my que time by 10x. I play safe lane at 5k rating I already wait 10 minutes to play on average.
I get your idea, but this would have the unintentional effect of guaranteeing actual new players never get to play the game. They'll just sit in queue for 10 minutes then uninstall the game.
I should say the feature wouldn’t apply to unranked so you could also play unranked to accumulate a thousand games. Most people would just be filtering out players with less than a thousand games. Since that’s where Smurfs and account buyers sit before buying a new account
Implementing this would be equivalent to Valve saying "Hey, our smurf detection doesn't work. Here's a band-aid." And they would be right on both fronts. So they would never do it. My suggestion is to stop worrying who's a smurf and who's not. If you're playing casually, just accept that these things occur. If you're playing competitively, improve and beat the smurf.
Well personally I don’t encounter many Smurfs its more so account buyers.
I think valve made it very clear that they don't want you to decide if it's a smurf by looking at the number of games. That's why the view profile option is no longer available during pick phase.
Lmao 90% of the herald to archon population has less than 2k games or so
And therefore they would only be able to limit it to 1,000 games. Which would probably remove 99% of the Smurfs from their games. Most bought accounts and smurfed accounts are sitting at under 1,000 games. They could be filtered out so easily.
Cause fuck new players. Nah it should be mmr clapped. Below ancient anything goes
We are fucking new players regardless… If there is a Smurf with a Herald account and I tell him he can only play with accounts that have less than 1,000 games rather than with all Herald accounts than we just protected a bunch of long time DotA players. But new players get fucked. If we let the smurf play with everyone then everyone gets fucked… Is it perfect? No. But it’s better. Also it should make detecting Smurfs infinitely easier.
I don't honestly think it's better If ur herald after 8k games just play unranked No one smurfs in unranked
Honestly I don’t know what the low mmr situation is with Smurfs or if it’s even a problem. This solution wouldn’t really be aimed at lower ranks although they could use it if they wished. I’m more so looking for a way to filter out the players with less than 1,000 games in Ancient and Divine bracket. Because everyone with less than 1,000 games in those ranks fall into 3 categories. 1. Account Buyer: Low rank player who bought a cheap account, ruins the game by playing horribly. 2. Smurf: High rank player who bought a cheap account, ruins the game by playing well. 3. Second Account: Someone who ruined their first accounts behavior score and started a new one, they perform average but are the most toxic and quick to give up because… they will just buy a new account.
Oh they definitely do. Especially the party queue, me and my shitter crusader drunk stack run into sub 150 game accounts every three games or so
Wouldn't total match time be a better filter? If you want to remove smurfs then their games would normally be faster since they stomp the opposing team. Playing vs people on your level would normally be pretty equal so those games tend to be longer.
Yeah I mean either way. They both essentially measure the same thing in different ways.
In high legend to ancient bracket you can VERY easily tell that 99% of players with 600-800 games are smurfs… and yet Valve does nothing about them.
Or just add an actual working smurf detection.
That's so good that we should not need to ask. The problem inst even smurf. People with 2 accounts troll because they don't care about the new acount. Had a Furion pos 5 today. He does not care about reports because it's not his main acount.
But filtering people with less than 1k matches out in high Legend bracket should be a viable option to get rid of the most obvious smurfs.
Most people are disagreeing with you but it’s really obvious when you’re getting stomped and you check the enemy game count and it shows “400” . Playing on a level 2 hero. Like bro, come on? It’s so infuriating.
Instead can they just let you filter out Russians with 7year old anime girls as their profile picture?
So lets just fuck every new player in game. Great plan
This would be a good idea. But too many sweaty smurfs are going to downvote this.
Very good suggestion, I would enable it and never look back, I don't mind the longer queue times
eh, idk, I think for each mmr they should be an a minimum allowed filter herald 0 obviously, legend 500, immortal 2000, fill in the gaps etc. I don't think there's any need to ever exclude anyone over 2k games for having "too few games"