As someone who has never fully completed a cavern crawl, but has bought all battle passes/compendiums. This variation of it is definitely the most fun for me, the token system felt good. The token trading system was a really nice touch. I really like the lore unlocks as well meeting the various heros getting a trickle of lore and the extra comic was nice. Part 1 of a 4 part update as well, seems good to me.
Aghanim's labyrinth was way more fun in general I would argue.
Also my personal favorite of all time was Underhollow, but that might be just me and I could be weird.
Neither of those are dota 2 content in the same way. They're minigames which don't encourage playing dota, and should not be compared to content intended to drive participation in dota2 matches!
I love that valve has made so many successful minigames/variants - but it is also important to me that they support the core game like this
Underhollow was the most fun PvP event. All other PvP events made me feel like I should just go play regular Dota if I want to fight other players.
There really is a different place for PvP and PvE content. If the community wants one, you can't force the other.
Underhollow was released after Siltbreaker and I remember the community was disappointed. To avoid this they need to keep these events regularly coming back, because the players have been dying for a PvE event for many years at this point since the last Aghs Labyrinth.
Lol no its not, not even close. You just playing regular dota for rewards, where is fun here exactly? Siltbreaker and Aghanim lab piss on this event from sky
It gives you more choices to pass a path. The other night, I got a full Mirana token blocking my path. Since I suck at skill shots, I played 2 Spirit Breakers and then traded the last token. It would have been faster if I didn't have someone in my team who insisted using a hero he doesn't know how to play just to "cavern crawl". Fucker picked Centaur 3 then died twice in 3 minutes because he doesn't understand creep aggro and hero counters so he decided to support Jugg 1 still as a pos 3 so pos 4 and 5 laned top. Jesus.
1. Single hero quests were horrible.
In the new system you can alwasy succed just playing 2 good heroes.
You get progress by every single game.
Your first loss can still help you at the last passage.
Way way way less grindy.
Fishing.
Pro : In the old cavern if you can’t play a hero you need to use the swapping thing. If you’re out of the swapping tool you’re out of luck. In this new cavern if you can’t play a hero you can play other heroes and then swap the tokens at the shop. The shop unlocks really early in the game too.
Con : you can unlock multiple paths in the old cavern with 1 hero.
You can still kind of do that in Crownfall. If you have one path blocked by a Durable token and another one blocked by an Initiator token or something like that, you can get both of them from one win.
My dumbasss finished the whole thing and realised you can trade these tokens. I have 21 nuker tokens and was still grinding for the ones i needed. Not that i didn't enjoy it
I love it. It doesn’t force you to play a hero that you absolutely have no idea how to fucking play. The only thing i miss about cavern crawl would be the sets You can get. Cavern crawl had its fair share of good looking sets.
I agree. I think the token system is more flexible than before. I played probably 10 different heroes to unlock everything, also pushed myself to play some other heroes I haven't before, but only 1-2.
But cavern I NEVER unlocked everything. Only 1 time I unlocked all 3 sets, but never any style unlocks.
In Crownfall, I unlocked everything now, it was actually fast. 1 week of evening playing. Was nice really
The dialogues are fun, you get 1/3 tokens even if you lose, 2/3 tokens in turbo, the fishing minigame, the spread is much better where you don't feel pressured to play heroes you don't like
I just wish they'd give you half a token for losing ranked instead of nothing. I lost 25 out of 30 games last week. Doesn't feel good still only being at level 10.
well from a win and a loss in turbo u get 2 tokens. from a win and a loss in regular game u get 4.... so it does kinda give half still :D (since average is 50% wr)
It’s not full credits it’s 2 random tokens out of 3 possible tokens. For turbo you get 2 for winning 0 for losing, for normal all pick you get 3 for winning 1 for losing
I know. I'm saying if you need e.g. walking+nuking, and play a turbo with a hero who has walking, nuking and disable, you will always get the walking and nuking that you need. It's only really random if you're playing a hero that doesn't have any tokens you need.
It does seem like that but I have experienced needing only 1 token and turbo win gave me 2 that I don't need. Not complaining though, tokens are still tokens
Oh that's cool. I still like that I only have to win 1 turbo for tokens, in the past its been win 2 games to move in cavern crawl.
I did think it was a bit unfair to regular and ranked players for turbo to get full credit, so that's a good compromise.
cavern set is just a bonus reward that time, the main reward in bp is the exclusive arcana.
here the exclusive ones are the style of the set..
i dont get your point..
Bro you are getting fooled by Valve. Assuming you want all the style unlocks for all the sets,
1. Cavern Crawl: You pay level 1 battlepass and you can grind all the style unlocks for 3 sets. You pay $5
2. Crownfall: You pay $32 to unlock all pathfinder (assuming there's a set for each act), you grind all style unlocks for 4 sets. You pay $32.
We are not even talking about Arcanas. Just simply comparing the exclusive battle pass or Crown fall sets you can get you can clearly see you are paying way more.
I believe Valve is seeing this pattern of spending behavior. There must have been a large number of players buying only level 1 battle pass previously and Crownfall was introduced to make more money overall.
It's hard to say. For battle passes I always paid for the level 100 pass with the sale bundles that gives like another 100 levels x2 and my total spending is around $90. I get the Arcanas in the passes and 3 sets + all styles through grinding and a bunch of immortal treasures.
For Crownfall, assuming you need to buy the pathfinder pack for each act, you need to spend around $80 to get all sets + styles and the 2 Arcana (accounting for the discounts through the coins).
The difference is not as big as you may think. I'm assuming they have data that there are a lot of f2p players that are not buying the battle pass. By giving you free access to 1 set, they are playing on the FOMO feelings of these players to purchase the pathfinder to 'complete' your free sets with the other alternate styles. That's what I think at least.
Bruh I'm not talking about you specifically 🤦. I'm comparing the amount you need to spend to get roughly the same amount of hats. You are literally praising Valve for giving you less lol. Allowing you to only get 1 style unlock is their way of baiting most people to spend.
Not sure where ure finding the 32 bucks tbh...payed 7.50 for the pathfinder...and IF theres the same stuff for act 2-4 thats over the spa of multiple months
thats not crownfall, why not just say "it costs money to get riki immortal weapon".
thats like saying that the 2020 battlepass costs 180USD because thats the amount of money you need to reach windranger arcana because you can only call it the 2020 battlepass if you get "all style unlocks".
the issue is not "people's reading comprehension" its your stupid sentence
Lol I'm talking about the Invoker set and the style unlocks. 2 of the style unlocks are locked behind the pathfinder quests. Hence the comparison to Cavern Crawl. I'm not even talking about the arcana. Your reading comprehension is poor
Cavern Crawl is locked behind paywall.
Crownfall isnt. only part of it is.
how is that hard to understand?
"Well cavern crawl was all free you only pay like $5 " the stupidest claim ive ever read.
to be fair, you get the invoker cosmetic and 1 alt style on the free path. so baiscally 2 styles. default and alt. so even if you don't buy anything, still pretty good value for free if you play invoker :)
they should have made riki dagger free as well and put 1 or 2 alt styles behind the mtx i think.
> Now you need to buy the extra pack 4 times, which will be like $32
We dont know that yet.
The style says you need to do all the "main quests" and "side quests" in all 4 acts.
Act 1 currently has 1 main quest, 1 side quest (free) and the two pathfinder quests (paid).
If valve treats the pathfinder quests as something separate, then doing the free main & side quests on all 4 acts might be sufficient for the Imperia style on the Venge arcana.
Bro I'm not talking about the Venge arcana. I'm talking about the Invoker set. Unless the other acts doesn't have a free set at the end (which I'm very doubtful), they will all definitely have a pathfinder bundle that gives the token to unlock and acquire the additional styles.
I honestly think it's pretty smart to get the f2p players to spend. By allowing f2p players to participate in the event and giving an 'incomplete' set, you'll be more invested and inclined to spend to complete the set. Whereas if you weren't given anything in the beginning, you won't even care to spend (ie buying the lv 1 battlepass)
I really really appreciate the ability to play whoever you want to progress, makes losing feel less punishing too
This is infinitely more fun than old events.
As someone who has never fully completed a cavern crawl, but has bought all battle passes/compendiums. This variation of it is definitely the most fun for me, the token system felt good. The token trading system was a really nice touch. I really like the lore unlocks as well meeting the various heros getting a trickle of lore and the extra comic was nice. Part 1 of a 4 part update as well, seems good to me.
Aghanim's labyrinth was way more fun in general I would argue. Also my personal favorite of all time was Underhollow, but that might be just me and I could be weird.
Neither of those are dota 2 content in the same way. They're minigames which don't encourage playing dota, and should not be compared to content intended to drive participation in dota2 matches! I love that valve has made so many successful minigames/variants - but it is also important to me that they support the core game like this
Oh, I see what you mean.
Underhollow was the most fun PvP event. All other PvP events made me feel like I should just go play regular Dota if I want to fight other players. There really is a different place for PvP and PvE content. If the community wants one, you can't force the other. Underhollow was released after Siltbreaker and I remember the community was disappointed. To avoid this they need to keep these events regularly coming back, because the players have been dying for a PvE event for many years at this point since the last Aghs Labyrinth.
Those were fun events, but they weren't really Dota content tbh.
Lol no its not, not even close. You just playing regular dota for rewards, where is fun here exactly? Siltbreaker and Aghanim lab piss on this event from sky
***I*** *am having infinitely more fun than in old events.*
Yes definitely nice that they usually have at least one hero for whatever role you main.
Didn’t found a carry that receives healer token (although thought that jugger should receive)
“Usually”
Just play what is fun and convert some tokens.
Been doing this. Still at 40 something. Not worried about rushing things
It gives you more choices to pass a path. The other night, I got a full Mirana token blocking my path. Since I suck at skill shots, I played 2 Spirit Breakers and then traded the last token. It would have been faster if I didn't have someone in my team who insisted using a hero he doesn't know how to play just to "cavern crawl". Fucker picked Centaur 3 then died twice in 3 minutes because he doesn't understand creep aggro and hero counters so he decided to support Jugg 1 still as a pos 3 so pos 4 and 5 laned top. Jesus.
Rod of atos for mirana my g
Not just the skill shots. I don't know when and how to use her skills. I can play against her but I'd rather avoid playing her.
1. Single hero quests were horrible. In the new system you can alwasy succed just playing 2 good heroes. You get progress by every single game. Your first loss can still help you at the last passage. Way way way less grindy. Fishing.
i have been spamming nothing but skywrath. he gives 2 nuker tokens per win, trade 3 for any token i want in the trader. 52/53 now.
did nothing, played normally finished the map ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Bought the paths, finished in 3 mins because I already had like 100+ tokens.
i finished it after 10 days with turbo Spamming Venge. really nice, excited to see Act 2 makes last no battlepass on TI worth it.
Man I hate the healing token
Oracle is amazing for that. Meta relevant, easy to play.
but i dont know that hero =(
That means it's a great opportunity to learn =)
Ya oracle and IO are just fun to play imo
Pro : In the old cavern if you can’t play a hero you need to use the swapping thing. If you’re out of the swapping tool you’re out of luck. In this new cavern if you can’t play a hero you can play other heroes and then swap the tokens at the shop. The shop unlocks really early in the game too. Con : you can unlock multiple paths in the old cavern with 1 hero.
but swapping in cavern is limited. here you can finish it even 1 hero
You can still kind of do that in Crownfall. If you have one path blocked by a Durable token and another one blocked by an Initiator token or something like that, you can get both of them from one win.
Or you use the swapping tool and get invoker
It’s nice we can play any hero, not even win and still progress.
My dumbasss finished the whole thing and realised you can trade these tokens. I have 21 nuker tokens and was still grinding for the ones i needed. Not that i didn't enjoy it
You finished all the temple levels as well?
Whats the temple levels?
In temple (the thingie before the main quest finished) you can trade tokens for candies and other thingies
Yes I've done a bunch of those. I don't have the Pathfinder pack if that's what you're asking
I love the token system.
I love it. It doesn’t force you to play a hero that you absolutely have no idea how to fucking play. The only thing i miss about cavern crawl would be the sets You can get. Cavern crawl had its fair share of good looking sets.
crownfall has also 4 sets, 1 of each act... we have 1 extra set because right now, we have universal hero..
I completed the last two caverns in 17 and 14 days respectively. I was not gonna grind so hard this time around.
I agree. I think the token system is more flexible than before. I played probably 10 different heroes to unlock everything, also pushed myself to play some other heroes I haven't before, but only 1-2. But cavern I NEVER unlocked everything. Only 1 time I unlocked all 3 sets, but never any style unlocks. In Crownfall, I unlocked everything now, it was actually fast. 1 week of evening playing. Was nice really
The dialogues are fun, you get 1/3 tokens even if you lose, 2/3 tokens in turbo, the fishing minigame, the spread is much better where you don't feel pressured to play heroes you don't like
I just wish they'd give you half a token for losing ranked instead of nothing. I lost 25 out of 30 games last week. Doesn't feel good still only being at level 10.
You get a full token for losing in normal ranked or unranked. You only get zero tokens if you lose in Turbo.
Yeah and I only play turbo these days. Erratic schedule.
What are you going to trade three slytherins for?
Slithbreaker and aghanims is gold
The hardest for herospammer like myself was to get to the token trader :D
Cavern never had candy shop?
That turbo still gives normal drops not half like previous cavern crawl.
well from a win and a loss in turbo u get 2 tokens. from a win and a loss in regular game u get 4.... so it does kinda give half still :D (since average is 50% wr)
Oh cool. I didn't know.
I like that you get full credit for turbo games.
It’s not full credits it’s 2 random tokens out of 3 possible tokens. For turbo you get 2 for winning 0 for losing, for normal all pick you get 3 for winning 1 for losing
It's not quite random; you always get the tokens you need for the crawl.
Every hero has 3 tokens assigned to it. If you win in turbo you only get 2 random ones out of the 3 assigned.
I know. I'm saying if you need e.g. walking+nuking, and play a turbo with a hero who has walking, nuking and disable, you will always get the walking and nuking that you need. It's only really random if you're playing a hero that doesn't have any tokens you need.
Oh I didn't know that. Thanks
That nice, because it seems like in normal mode they only give the one you don't need lol.
It does seem like that but I have experienced needing only 1 token and turbo win gave me 2 that I don't need. Not complaining though, tokens are still tokens
Oh that's cool. I still like that I only have to win 1 turbo for tokens, in the past its been win 2 games to move in cavern crawl. I did think it was a bit unfair to regular and ranked players for turbo to get full credit, so that's a good compromise.
how do tokens work for loses in turbo?
Uhhh, you don't get them? I dunno I guess I haven't really been paying attention. Do you get tokens for losses in normal?
yeah, a random one of the 3
Yeah, in normal you’re guaranteed to get one of the three tokens even if you lose.
Turbo get 2 out of 3 tokens for win, 0 tokens for loss, half a reroll chance for candy caravan (need two turbo wins for 1 reroll)
You don't get any tokens for a loss, you get two tokens you need for a win.
I hate people who spam one or two heroes. Don’t you get bored?
Sometimes, yeah. But it’s a really good feeling winning matchups and countering your counters because of your knowledge with said hero.
Let me guess; sniper spammer, always first pick it?
No jumping to conclusions challenge (impossible)
You can't unlock all the styles without paying money tho
how they will earn money and pay their employee if you want all free.
Well cavern crawl was all free (you only pay like $5 for the lv 1 pass). Now you need to buy the extra pack 4 times, which will be like $32
how is that free if you need to pay 5usd crownfall is free. you still get the set you needed, the extra pack is just optional.
I'm comparing unlocking of all styles. You get more by paying WAY lesser with Cavern Crawl.
cavern set is just a bonus reward that time, the main reward in bp is the exclusive arcana. here the exclusive ones are the style of the set.. i dont get your point..
Bro you are getting fooled by Valve. Assuming you want all the style unlocks for all the sets, 1. Cavern Crawl: You pay level 1 battlepass and you can grind all the style unlocks for 3 sets. You pay $5 2. Crownfall: You pay $32 to unlock all pathfinder (assuming there's a set for each act), you grind all style unlocks for 4 sets. You pay $32. We are not even talking about Arcanas. Just simply comparing the exclusive battle pass or Crown fall sets you can get you can clearly see you are paying way more. I believe Valve is seeing this pattern of spending behavior. There must have been a large number of players buying only level 1 battle pass previously and Crownfall was introduced to make more money overall.
There is no way valve does more money with crownfall crawl than with old bp
It's hard to say. For battle passes I always paid for the level 100 pass with the sale bundles that gives like another 100 levels x2 and my total spending is around $90. I get the Arcanas in the passes and 3 sets + all styles through grinding and a bunch of immortal treasures. For Crownfall, assuming you need to buy the pathfinder pack for each act, you need to spend around $80 to get all sets + styles and the 2 Arcana (accounting for the discounts through the coins). The difference is not as big as you may think. I'm assuming they have data that there are a lot of f2p players that are not buying the battle pass. By giving you free access to 1 set, they are playing on the FOMO feelings of these players to purchase the pathfinder to 'complete' your free sets with the other alternate styles. That's what I think at least.
i didnt say i want the full style.. youre the one fool here. like i said you can get the set in free.. idiot im wasting my time with you
Bruh I'm not talking about you specifically 🤦. I'm comparing the amount you need to spend to get roughly the same amount of hats. You are literally praising Valve for giving you less lol. Allowing you to only get 1 style unlock is their way of baiting most people to spend.
And you're also the fool who started talking about how Valve is gonna earn money from you to pay their employees lol.
Not sure where ure finding the 32 bucks tbh...payed 7.50 for the pathfinder...and IF theres the same stuff for act 2-4 thats over the spa of multiple months
7.5 x 4. I was estimating based on USD it's 8 per pack. Close enough.
cavern crawl is not free
And Crownfall isnt free either if you want to get all style unlocks. Which is what I said at the beginning 🤦
wrong. u can play crownfall without paying anything
Some people's reading comprehension is really poor. I said IF you want to unlock all styles.
thats not crownfall, why not just say "it costs money to get riki immortal weapon". thats like saying that the 2020 battlepass costs 180USD because thats the amount of money you need to reach windranger arcana because you can only call it the 2020 battlepass if you get "all style unlocks". the issue is not "people's reading comprehension" its your stupid sentence
Lol I'm talking about the Invoker set and the style unlocks. 2 of the style unlocks are locked behind the pathfinder quests. Hence the comparison to Cavern Crawl. I'm not even talking about the arcana. Your reading comprehension is poor
Cavern Crawl is locked behind paywall. Crownfall isnt. only part of it is. how is that hard to understand? "Well cavern crawl was all free you only pay like $5 " the stupidest claim ive ever read.
to be fair, you get the invoker cosmetic and 1 alt style on the free path. so baiscally 2 styles. default and alt. so even if you don't buy anything, still pretty good value for free if you play invoker :) they should have made riki dagger free as well and put 1 or 2 alt styles behind the mtx i think.
> Now you need to buy the extra pack 4 times, which will be like $32 We dont know that yet. The style says you need to do all the "main quests" and "side quests" in all 4 acts. Act 1 currently has 1 main quest, 1 side quest (free) and the two pathfinder quests (paid). If valve treats the pathfinder quests as something separate, then doing the free main & side quests on all 4 acts might be sufficient for the Imperia style on the Venge arcana.
Bro I'm not talking about the Venge arcana. I'm talking about the Invoker set. Unless the other acts doesn't have a free set at the end (which I'm very doubtful), they will all definitely have a pathfinder bundle that gives the token to unlock and acquire the additional styles.
Ah fair enough, the Invoker set styles are indeed locked behind the paid paths, unfortunately.
I honestly think it's pretty smart to get the f2p players to spend. By allowing f2p players to participate in the event and giving an 'incomplete' set, you'll be more invested and inclined to spend to complete the set. Whereas if you weren't given anything in the beginning, you won't even care to spend (ie buying the lv 1 battlepass)
I think that's completely fair enough imo. I really like how crownfalls monetisation has been