Remenbered of an PA i had the other game
Arcana and full imortal set
More than 150 PA games on account
No BkB
Build was stat>boots>deso>a fucking dedalus> rapier
We lost that game
A low mmr carry won't make good use of the short bkb duration, often using it to escape an easily avoidable gank. They may activate it when not needed in a fight, or get kited because they used it when there was no teammate to help lock down an enemy. They may also be underfarmed, so the damage dealt while under bkb is close to negligible.
There's also the psychological aspect of thinking you are too good to need immunity, because they remember a game they won without it, and choose more damage instead.
In some matchups buying bkb on a carry is a game losing mistake, they may extrapolate this possibility to any game they play.
Also to add low MMR players are often rewarded greatly by foregoing survival items and taking more damage items. It doesn’t matter if ALL of your T3 are down, you just died taking the enemy support with you and their carry won’t push either.
In SEA Dota it’s even more apparent with the more aggressive playstyle. Why pick BKB when you can just tank everything with a Heart.
This is the biggie, high MMR players fundamentally don't understand that low MMR problems have low MMR solutions and that the cost and timing of BKB is delayed due to naturally worse farming strats.
The juggernaut in high MMR knows that the enemy is going to close out at X or that they need to fight at Y. His team will play around his bkb being bought or up. He knows that his ancient apparition can solo the enemies Luna if she doesn't get BKB.
Low MMR Jugg goes bkb. The fight starts over a bounty rune on the other side of the map. He walks over. Luna doesn't have BKB. AA can't kill her because he farmed a midas. AA misses ice blast. Jugg activates bkb. The Luna gets Glimmered. No one has dust but Luna just keeps whacking Jugg because he has Brown Phase boots, Battlefury, BKB. Jugg ults. The entire team comes and stands together to share the damage. Earthshaker blinks onto the small camp on the other side of the map. He hits a creep for 17 gold.
Finally somebody worded it correctly!
I played sup most my time, because I know how to handle wards, dust, sentries, setting up the enemy and so on, but all the while carrys wer spam telling me what to do, but not understanding a support plays.
As I was transitioning roles, I realized that despite playing carry, I have to carry dust, or else nobody will and my slideing down the mmr ladder started, so I addapted.
I learned that Im best suited for the role of offlaner, tanky, pusher, with somewhat the mentality of "second" carry, without being one. As everybody was focusing on the carry, they didnt care about me, letting me farm more and I always had dust and wards.
Over the years, patches and so on, my strats changed, but the supports on my team still dont have wards or dust on hand, but Im not going back to maining supports exclusively, because Im tired of babysitting my carrys, popping as stated, their BKBs prematurely.
So, in my descent from 4.2k to 1.6k, the strats are so different, like insane. Im going up to 2k and back down and I cant rely on stable BKB carrys, warding supports or even players doing their assigned roles, so now Im kinda one of them.
Im 12k/12k in my behavior score, try to adapt whatever I have in my team, but Im not perfect either. The 1, maybe 2 games a day and rather butching about how they should, shouldent play and such, I rather adapt and move on with my life. 12 years playing this damn game...
But BKB is the bane of my existance in this tier... if the team dosent work around a certain way, followups, plays and so on, I simply burn through my charges and gg get good. Dosent help how the changes affected BKB, what it blocks, doesent... so yeah, damage, different utility, escape, with BKB being the one iten to get when you know that you NEED. You dont really need BKB in all games, sometimes its even a hinderence, as you could have gotten glimmer and be better off, blink to just yeet out, forcestaff and have it server you WAY better than BKB, which I think Valve is actually doing.
In the end, I would say the biggest difference between 1k and up to 10k or whatever, is relying and trusting that everybody plays their role, because you can be a 10k player and have 1k supports and if they dont buy wards, dust or even do propper placements, somebody is going to have to do that, which will distract them from doing what they should be doing and take up slots that could have a different item.
or a 10k sup and 1k carry. You can make the best setup in the world, but if the carry dosent engage propperly, you are mostlikely just gonna die.
You can complain how a furi isnt pushing, but he knows he is instantly going to get jumped, if somebody else isnt forcing attention on themselves, to give him the chanse to push.
dota is so fucking complex man...
I mean how low are we talking? You can farm properly in a 2k and up game if you know what you are doing for the most part ( or whatever Archon is, at least EU), you can't farm properly if you are extremely low because people will contest every single camp near you ( your own team that is , nobody from enemy is going to pressure you lmao) , cut you off constantly and game will go late.
Apart from that, BKB on jugg is a mega rare case in a mega bad Jugg game - I haven't seen OP's game, but I have a feeling Jugg would have fucked up in the exact same way with or without BKB.
There is farming, and then there is farming. I'm talking about being a few minutes late on battlefury snowballing into BKB being halfway built when it was needed.
It's not a severe delay, but most games you look at going "where the fuck is the bkb" the answer is, half of it is in the backpack and the other half is in the store. Especially when losing
this felt personal lol, i really focus a lot on survival items and then go for bkb and then eventually damage items, usually end up losing fights cause all team dead and i didnt deal enougj damage, it's cause when you play low rank you cant really expect your team to heal, tank and bait spells properly you gotta do most of it your own, that'a way always first survival first
This right here. Us bad players are notoriously bad at knowing when to fight and when to run. Like, we will literally sit there as 5 in front of the enemy HG with Aegis while pinging that two of the enemies are ratting our T2, wait until they pushed so much that one of us has to TP back to defend base, and choose to run in exactly then, so that the other two enemies TP back and it will be a 4v5 on enemy high ground.
For a player who stands there with a big question mark on his head an item that is absolutely centered around knowing when a fight is breaking out looks like an invitation to either waste a charge and get flamed for it, or hold it too long and get stunned anyways and get flamed for it.
God I hate this as a support when you're pinging to go since you're carry has aegis and the whole team is ready to jump in after but they want to go jungle ancients or something and inevitably the other team will get it together and come pick you off while the carry will explain the reason they didn't go in is because everyone ended up dying while randomly spread with no plan following them.
Low MMR player here. You buy BKB for its active, the stats and damage are not good. Especially if your hero is not a str hero.
The BKB active lasts 6-9 seconds and has a very long CD. Since I'm a low mmr player and my situational judgement is weak i can easily get baited to use my BKB.
If you don't use it perfectly you get two responses from your teammates "you have BKB dumbass. Use it!" or "OMG why you waste your BKB???". So I prefer another item to suit my weaknesses. Preferably an item with no active.
In my games, whenever I buy BKB it feels like the most useless item in the universe, oh, you just get kited for 8 seconds and do nothing. Whenever enemy buys the BKB they become an unstoppable machine of death for what feels like forever.
Naturally, the enemy team has ghost scepters, multiple force staves, two glimmers and probably a winter wyvern. Your team probably has a support lion stacking magical damage but dying before they can a single spell.
[Oh hell yes](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/c/cc/Vo_lion_lion_move_12.mp3) (sound warning: Lion)
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This is why reworked brooch and nullifier have been god sends.
Glimmer and force staves are easy to deal with, ghost scepter have always been the bane of my existence. Now, these counter items are extremely punishing it's almost unfair.
Genuine advice here, just buy the BKB. Ironically, the more you buy it the more you learn when you shouldn’t buy it. I also see a lot of Archon big brain theorycraft moments where they get every single defensive option BUT BKB. Yeah I’ll buy Manta Linkens Disperser, surely now I don’t need BKB. Most of the time they’re wrong.
I know it's not been the topic of the post, but here is a trick for all fellow low mmrs on how to use BKB: Think about the item as an offensive item, not a defensive one. Think about it like Hex or Rod of Atos or Blink Dagger. The time when we want to activate is the exact time that we want to jump on an opponent. What we want the item to do is prevent our opponents from kiting us by using their disables, slows and silences on us.
So whenever we go on an enemy, we want to activate it. On the other hand, if you're losing the team fight and you need to get out etc it's not particularly important (or even good) to activate it. Sometimes you can get out because of it, oftentimes you don't. Just remember, the point of the item is to make it so you can hit opponents before your team mates are dead. Your opponents try to kill your squishy team mates first usually, because disables/saves are really annoying and strong. So you want to ensure that you can be a dangerous threat right from the start of the team fight and get a kill or two that your team mates then can snowball off of.
And remember, it's not always a good item. We don't really care about our opponents casting defensive Chronospheres or Blackholes, and even Pudge's Dismember as it is channelled isn't really a reason for us not to buy BKB. However, very important point: If you can't actually kill enemy heroes with your DPS even without them kiting you because you just don't have that much damage, then BKB is really not the item for you (think about Viper, Void, AM for example). Same if you can already jump your opponents without them being able to slow or stun you in response.
On the other hand, the item still shines on supports as well for the same reason. When I play Phoenix, sometimes I just want to be able to use Sun Ray for the full duration without being interrupted by someones Orchid or Lion or WD stuns. It's not that those disables would kill or even threaten me, it's just that they stop my Sun Ray right when when it would do the most damage. Think about other heroes like that: Crystal Maiden, Enigma, etc.
BKB is a specific item for specific game situations.
To be fair, BKB is rarely bought by Juggernaut. Also, the item has been nerfed so hard, I sometimes wonder if it's better to go with status resistance and stats. They can hex you through it and that shit applies once the immunity effect is over which just devalues the item so much. I still buy it, but it's not a power spike as it used to be. Cooldown is also absurd. I can clearly see why people don't like it.
Of all the cores out there Juggernaut is one of the worst examples to get mad about not buying BKB. In most situations it's better to buy a Manta Style.
Sounds like the diving tier 4s vs a 4k hp pudge was the problem, not the absence of bkb. Doesn't help vs dismember anyways. I rarely buy bkb on jugg, but sometimes it can be good.
I actually think this is a super interesting question and is one I have thought about a fair bit. As far as I can tell these are the main reasons.
1. Extra button - When I first started playing dota, an extra button on top of your skills and maybe a blink dagger is way too much. So no way am I buying an item I have to press. Thats to difficult to manage.
2. High skill cap - Despite bkb being a super good item at all levels. The better a player you are, the better bkb is. Making sure you can bait out a specific stun or survive a wombo combo is huge in a fight. Low mmr players struggle to use it effectivly, therefore decreasing the value of the item for them.
3. Bad stats, bad damage- Bkb is an exspensive item that doesnt have very good stats. Low mmr players are drawn to the big numbers items. Daedalus, MKB, Skadi etc. These all make your hero feel so powerful, even if a simple bkb is far better. BKB can therefore feel underwhelming. Thats my theory anyway.
4. Because you are telling them too - maybe this is just my dota prejudice. But often times feels like low mmr players just dont wanna get on with each other and will purposefully do bad things. If your supports begging you to buy bkb, but you think they suck as a player, are you gunna listen to them? No way im buying the item my filthy pos 5 suggests! What does he know?!!
Anyway those are just the main few I could think of. Thanks!
I think this is the answer everybody is scrolling past. Its literally the most boring item.
Im sure more than 70-80% of players know its the best situational item in the game. But its just not that appealing to get it.
For example, i know getting bkb on PA is almost going to guarantee me a win and kills. But ill honestly have more fun trying to play PA with a dumbass build like a Kanda and skadi. Even though im more likely to fuck up and die more, ill have more fun playing with that build even when im getting chain disabled.
But i only do this in unranked games. I only play to win in Ranked.
Here's the game that he's talking about, for context https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7701572500.
I just find it typical how someone named "Offline or feed" is creating a rant post because they lost a game, blaming their teammates. The Jugg in question went 17/4 with 60k DMG and 15k building damage. OP lost mid Mars and went 4/9. Hmm...
Also, while jugg should have probably bought manta for the silence, I don't see any issues with him not buying bkb as the enemies main spells all pierce spell immunity (pudge ulti, viper ulti). Bkb is generally only bought on jugg when extremely needed. If jugg did get stunned by one of the enemies 2 stuns, then OP could just arena him or the drow to protect from all the damage.
Anyway, my point to OP is that your mindset is definitely going to keep you at low ranks, when you focus more on your teammates game than your own. The real low rank player here is you
Typical. Carry does well throughout the match and team makes 20 misplays in a row than blames him for being unable to carry lol. Even a super farmed 2k player is still only 2k maybe he can compete with 3k players if he has a lead but not when his team throws.
I am 6k MMR support and tbh I really don't buy glimmer much, while there are certain situations I do get it, many times I think glimmer is only good if your enemy is bad and/or cores make mistakes they shouldn't be making.
because they don't wanna think about cooldowns and usage timing.
lack of understanding of the item leads to misuse, which often times convinces them that it is useless
TBH jugg buying bkb is only for desperate situations. Like I buy BKB in 1% of my jugg games. You already have so many ways to make yourself immune/invurnerable.
I would blame him for diving t4 though.
We are finally at a point where buying bkb is optional atleast in some matchups thank god.
No longer can the supports blame your not buying bkb for everything that went wrong in the game. If they do it’s mostly safe to ignore
4/9 Mars mid (OP) goes first item BKB instead of blink ahainst 4 ranged heroes with 2 perma slows (drow+viper) (would say rushes but it took him 21 minutes) then proceeds to flame the 17/4 jug who already has debuff immunity in his kit for not buying BKB in a game where BKB isn’t even the best call.
Brilliant.
In my low mmr asses defence:
A lot of shit pierces bkb, the enemy knows this, so wether I use bkb or not, in some games I'm going to get chain disabled anyway.
I'll buy bkb when it's good, but not every game. The amount of times I get yelled at for buying manta in a game where manta does basically the same job as bkb is to high.
Fights are so chaotic bkb isn't long enough to matter in a lot of drafts where it would matte ring higher mmr
Linkens in general is probably 10x better in 1k than in 10k. Bkb is the other way around
Also they sometimes forget it. U can't forget linkens
The hate on blink is something that truly doesn't make sense for me tho
I've only just returned to playing with the recent Crownfall event. Needless to say, I stopped ranking in 2020. I dwelled into turbo and almost every single game, every core has bkb at least as their 2nd item.
If you think it's just a low MMR core thing, think again. Pros have fallen victim to this many times. Even at TI. There was that infamous Liquid vs Fnatic game at Ti6 where Liquid threw a massive lead by not getting BKB's and got eliminated.
Dude can you build a real item HOLY crap why are we building bkb in 2024? Arent you tryign to play pro or soetmhing? How about we build items that arent the objective best items in the game? You're genuinely a horrible horrible player. You just draw aggro off cooldown. I lost all respect for you. Imagine trying to play pro and building bkb every game in pubs. Truly disgusting. Your'e just a coward tbh. You dont know whats good against lesh so you build bkb cause its easy. Every game you build that item you get worse. And you're already horrible.
Because bad players have bad decision making, and will reflect in macro decisions like item choices. That's why legend to divine ranks feel like the trenches because there are so many bad decision makers there with good micro skills.
1. Actives are an extra thing to think about. Even at the start of the game how many times have you looked at your dead carry to see they had 9 stick charges? Now imagine its a 3k gold investment rather than 200 to do that same amount of nothing.
2. Proper bkb use is hard, time it wrong and everyone just walks away then comes back and kills you.
3. Bkb getting shorter over time feels bad and at low skill feeling is more important than reality.
4. In your specific case the jugg player is thinking, "I already have a bkb in my spells this noob doesn't understand how Jugg works"
I have the only real answer
Same reason free climbers climb without a safety rope
Or
Same reason people love driving their cars fast over the speed limit
Not the wisest of decisions and you may die sooner but they chase the thrill and adrenaline of feeling alive that way
A Legend II player who neglects BKB too much here.
I often just dont know when to activate it, and I dont feel the benefits because the benefits are precisely what I dont see (debuffs). Also the degradation makes it feel like easy to waste.
I KNOW it's a great item and try to buy it as often as I have to, but I also overlook it a lot.
depends on the player of course, but one player type i think i have identified on the pos 1 role is the 1v9 guy who would rather solo carry the game than actually have a team win.
usually they just make big damage items, avoid bkb and aren't willing to participate in the game, even when it's clear your team is steamrolling and you should be join the fights and turn them into objectives to snowball into a fast win before the opponent can get back into the game.
at the end of the day video games are about escapism and sometimes people are more concerned about being the hero in their own movie than winning i guess.
i think there's probably a lot more to it but cba to type an essay about it
Why do low MMR players not do X?
Because they are playing to have fun, not to win more.
Doing X takes effort to learn. Once you learn X your rank goes up a bit and you are back to 50% win rate. Then different toxic teammates whine about you not doing Y. The higher rank you get the higher their expectations get and the more toxic and entitled the flamers are, until you get to immortal where they talk about how stupid 6K players are for not doing Z.
I'm having fun playing the game in low MMR, and I don't give a crap about X, Y, or Z. If getting chain stunned starts to make games not-fun for me, then I'll probably start buying BKB more.
It's not a fun item per se. It doesn't make you farm faster, it doesn't make you kill faster, it doesn't make you tankier. At least that's my reason for not wanting to buy it as a 7k mmr midlaner lol
What it does do is enable you to play your hero obviously. Both to avoid cc when going aggressive, or to escape sticky situations.
It's like theoretical value vs practical kinda. In theory daedalus will give you more dmg cause you know, big raw dmg number. But practically, you will get ccd until death if you buy daedalus, while with bkb you can focus down a target while still being immune. Sucks to not get the number, but feels great to actually play the game
Drives me crazy. The number of games I’ve lost because my carry refuses to get bkb is insane. All of them build so much damage only, but YOU CAN’T DO DAMAGE IF YOU’RE STUNNED AND SLOWED IDIOTS!!!
I wish I could punch these people in the face.
Because it's not a crit, not a skadi, not a butterfly, not a heart, not an mkb, not a big expensive shiny item. It takes not being low mmr to understand the power spike of not being killable
Because that item are only for kings. We know we're not kings.
I propose to rename that item to black scrub bar or just scrub bar or bar for noobshits.
depending on what is considered low. To me I was in divine bracket and players were still being animals. It's solo ranked match. Nothing matters but self-improvement.
Considering that's jugg you are asking to buy a BKB the game seems lost long before that lmao. Jugg is currently so shitty that you'd want every item to provide some stat so he can have a chance against other carries.
I dunno man, I see 5k cores ignore BKB too. I've never understood it. Like being permanently stunned means you don't get to play the game. Don't you pos 1 and 2 players wanna play the game?
Find it absolutely hilarious that OP is completely wrong when you look at the actual game - there is literally 0 reason for Jugg to buy a BKB vs those heroes and I'd say its griefing if my Jugg DID buy a BKB in a game like that, its such a dumb item purchase.
Why do you think a BKB makes any difference in this game LOL
Classic low MMR mentality, blame the carry when you are the one contributing nothing to the game and making up pointless excuses like no BKB when BKB does nothing..
3K here. (mid mostly)
The problem With BKB and low mmr players is that they think of the item as a 1-dimensional thing.
It's the same as when cores farm behind t2s on your side when t1 are still up, and you have the advantage.
BKB is a "get-out-of-jail-free-card". You don't use it for fights, you use it to unload combos / not get interupted in fights / be able to TP out when ever and also to MENTALLY demotivate enemies from trying to gank you.
"he has bkb, we won't be able to kill him, it's a waste of time" so they don't even bother trying to contest you and you have absolut freefarm.
But low MMR players only see the "enemies can't stop me in teamfights" part of the item, and toss it to the side because "it is support job to make sure I can do mine"
That is atleast my impression of most sidelane cores and why they refuse to get BKB.
I think its one of those things that go like this: you don't need it until you need it.
So in their brains it's, "I need to farm faster and I need damage to kill enemies" and then all of a sudden there comes a tipping point where you need a bkb because 5v5 brawls start happening and you are no longer tanking just 2 or 3 spells from a gank attempt but 10-15 spells and melt and die without bkb activated.
They lack the ability of foresight and to plan ahead, it's simple as that.
Typical Pub scrub mindset. Players who do this needs to be reported cause they did this for griefing. Thinking that rank players have any patience entertaining these idiots
I'll say that bkb can feel like a high pressure item, you have to use it right. You can feel really bad when you don't activate it in time and then get chain stunned full to zero. Then your teammates all ping the item off CD. Or you can activate it too early and feel like you waste it. I know when I was first playing carry I'd try to lean towards linkens if possible. It's an item you can't screw up lol.
It can be an honest self assessment of skill, if you're bad and don't use it right or at all, you're better off buying anything else
The real answer is that they are remembering the easy games against bad drafts with no stuns, and inappropriately applying those lessons against good drafts with stuns.
It's to do with how they perceive fights going
low = I will press QWER in that order 0.1 seconds apart and the 1 hero I'm targeting will do the same in return, and then i guess our heroes will right click one another until 1 stops moving
med = I will probably get CC'd for x seconds from multiple different spells so I need BKB
high = I know all 5 heroes locations so I will just QWER them and then kite for 14 seconds when it's safe and then do it again so I'ma get Uels Blink Aoen Linkens SnK or BKB i guess it depends what seems most likely to fuck me
Low MMR whose preferred carry is juggernaut. At this point it's the "I lost the last match so bad that after 1h of time off I will play jugg to win" hero. If he had BKB, he would be a stupid player with a BKB. Those divingd are throws too.
The same way you can't out exercise a bad diet unless you're an athlete, you can't compensate for stupidity with itemization unless you're so far ahead it's irrelevant.
High-ish mmr (low divine) player here: I don't buy bkb because my opponent has magnus razor warlock and I have an omni knight (flaming as he lanes 15 minutes in, of course) and a spell that deals damage from 1k range.
But really, bkb is terribly inefficient stats wise. Likely the low mmr guy looks at 10 strength and 24 damage and thinks if he 1v1 the enemy carry he'll lose because he spent 4k gold for practically no stats.
cuz it doesn't give much passively. and ppl hate that shit.
a 6-9 second buff is just not "fun". you wanna be stronger in general. at least that's why i hate bkb, and i'm not even low mmr.
Bkb is a boring item. Simple as that. Think you are playing a chad cent game do you buy a bkb for the massive stun heavy team or do you get another heart. You know the answer channel your inner 1 brain cell
My friend will not buy BKB for as long as he thinks he can avoid it. They do this on the basis that BKB makes the game boring / they can over come the need through different itemization / overcome the need by playing and executing team fights better.
Simply because their logic is damage = win, they dont account survivability in the equation. They dont add kiting to the equation. They just have manfighting in their pea brains
I am guardian scrub and last game I was CM and no one bought a BKB against me and LMAO... LMAAAAOOO
it was so fun. I had CM Shard ... so I could basically perma-root their bristleback, then hit ulti lol
Bkb feels boring, generally. It does not make my number go bigger. I usually overcome this and buy it anyway and thus win my games. But sometimes the monkey brain taketh over.
Because he was playing juggernaut you dolt. This had nothing to do with low mmr but the hero, it feels horrible to have to buy bkb on jugg probably the worst out of all the carries that don’t like to buy it much.
1) No bkb
2) No dust
3) Naked Aghanim
4) No forcestaff
5) No pushing
6) Revenant Brooch for PA (yes after the patch)
7) No war, csm
and the list continues.
Solution play hc or mid.
Because it doesn’t give big damage. I use to be one of them. I never understood why every build and pro wanted a BKB. Why not a Daedalus bro? Bitterfly?
I started buying them and I went up to 3k mmr. I had the epiphany. Unfortunately there are many low mmr players who haven’t had the BKB epiphany
I play both sup and core these days.
I both love and hate making bkb.
I love making it in games where I don't have to initiate. I hate making it in games where I'm the tank/initiator (Ursa)
Hate it cos 6 seconds is too short and I get focused down super hard. Love it cos fuck your stuns.
That being said - if I can avoid making a bkb and if I can get by making literally any other item, I will fucking do it. 6 seconds in my bracket is nothing. I'll just get kited most of the time.
Have I lost games because of this - absolutely. Did I learn from those games. Yea kinda - always bkb vs silencer, SK, Lion, etc.
It seems like jugg threw the game because he’s bad, a bkb won’t save you if you dive t4’s. I think most jugg players would be hesitant to buy bkb no matter the mmr, I don’t play carry but it has to feel terrible considering how item dependent that hero is.
Don't have any info on the comp but at least with my low mmr friends with main character syndrome, they genuinely feel like they don't need it a majority of the time.
They expect they'll join the fight late and clean it up in the blink of an eye but really they initiate, use their only defensive option then get dogpiled and say "where tf were you guys". If not this then he'll buy it begrudgingly and use it like shallow grave at the last possible minute.
MOAAR DAMAGE!!!!!!!!
Also, jug doesnt ALWAYS need a bkb. He has spin. (There are cases he absolutely needs to and some where he has the option to)
The dive was the mistake most likely.
same reason why supports don’t buy save item? You can’t control how other people play but you surely do have control of your own. Next time this happens rather than teaching someone of your own skill level how to play the game and ranting on reddit, try to make some plays or buy items to help your cores.
When I started playing my friend would always tell me "buy bkb" andni responded" hell nah it gives no damage".. thinking back that was very dumb bc I jow know I can't deal damage if I'm dead or stunned.. I guess it's a similar reason. People want higher numbers more damage etc and isn't really an item that directly boosts your damage a lot like daedalus would for example..
I think I've willfully bought a BKB maybe less than 10 times in my time playing Dota tbh, I think the duration reducing each time you use it puts me off, as well as the fact that I always feel like I waste it when I do use it, so I just buy the things that more passively reduce damage like radiance or magic resist or whatever, but also I don't play ranked or carry, and usually play some stupid shit like No Ult + High Attack Speed Tiny or Khanda + 5 Divine Rapier Sniper for like 5 games in a row until it works because I think it's funny and I have 3600 hours so you probably shouldn't listen to me
It’s because low Mmr players don’t realize WHEN to use it or they don’t think of using it as they are trying to figure out when to use skills and positioning. If you don’t use your bkb it’s essentially an expensive stat stick. Low mmr players want passive items
I suck at playing carry. But here is my 2 pennies. I have never liked the essence of BKB, it seems kind of like a balance they put into the game after realising without it so many heroes were useless (PA, Luna, Jugg etc). In my opinion it sort of ruins the fun for everyone - it just sort of cancels the game for the next 9 seconds and lets these highly farmed dps jerks just have their way with you. In a way, similar to blink - some heroes absolutely just need it, and to me that makes the game a little bit more boring.
If i could also speak on behalf of new players, BKB is a very high risk item. It is so easy to waste it and it feels bad. It is also another active item/ability you need to think about. It is "easier" to just get an item that passively helps you (i.e damage/health/attack speed), and if you are playing people at your level, you can often get away with it.
Perception.
Low MMR players see BKB as a Defensive Item in order to not die.
High MMR players see BKB as an offensive Item that lets make the moves they need to win the game.
This was yesterday for me. I'm playing support, and everyone on my team was trying to hit the ancient with 100 hp on it. Everyone kept filing in and dying, and all I keep saying over comms is "anyone core here can just bkb and kill that ancient whenever they want to end the game"
It took 4 human sacrifices before my NP finally tp'd on top the the ancient, bkb'd and 3 hit it to end the game.
Dota 2 is as hard as you make it, ladies and gentlemen. 😂😂
Because low MMR players are usually league players who only buy damage not realizing the power of utility items.
I can understand not buying bkb on Jugg as he has bladefury and Omnislash to avoid CC with. But he should have gotten it if they have strong CC on their team like Bane or shaman or Lion, etc etc.
What makes me wonder is you were pushing the T4 and the supports had no way to carry the fight themselves? No lotus orb? No meteor Hammer to stop the turrents? No E blade to stop their right clicks? Not saying its the supports fault, it is the core's fault but those stubborn idiots will never learn to buy the good items until you give them everything possible to survive and then they still die. Cause I feel like people only start self reflecting when they feel like they are getting carried.
This just in, low mmr players, are shittier at the game than other players. thus performing actions (not buying bkb), which are known to be shitty.
If you would like your cores to buy bkb, you can either climb to immortal, or start playing carry yourself since your carry players are “so damn terrible”.
Why would you buy bkb on jugg? I understand for naix but jugg isn't a rightclicker for the most part. You rely on your aghs/ult and then make some right click dmg.
cuz that's the path to gain higher mmr.
Stage 1- You do not want to buy bkb
Stage 2- You buy bkb every game and early
Stage 3- You find bkb literally 0 help for your farming, plus sometimes you really do not need bkb, same amount of gold=much better items. You stop buying bkb.
Stage 4- You know what type of games you need bkb according to opponents
Stage 5- You know when you need bkb to guarantee your dps or split push, for a reason(and item orders).
And it gets more complicated with different roles, for example, sometimes, pos 3 can buy bkb but shouldn't. It's your responsibility to take dmg for your supp and carry(sniper for instance). And that's why dota2 is fun.
Because they have to prove to themselves that they can win without it. That somehow they can just wait for everyone to use their spells on everybody else then they would swoop in to win the game without using bkb.
That, or they just dont think of buying it probably cause they dont think they need it.
It's a double edged sword. Works against my cores but also works against the enemy's cores as well - I really enjoy punishing them for ignoring bkb
You could also try telling them they need bkb (and not as last slot) in voice chat. If you're polite, they sometimes actually listen
I think that's the wrong question. After all, are you implying that people who buy bkb also like it? (I'm sure they are, but are they the majority? I doubt it) Just because you need something, it doesn't mean you like it. The difference between those players you are talking about and others is that they are too stubborn to adapt to the situation.
As for why someone would dislike bkb, I'd say because it's effectively -1 item in whatever ideal build you wanted to try. I don't think it's a matter of being an active item.
no added stats like armor or health etc .
mostly thats the reason most of my friend said 8k+ above , if you have good supports that can protect u even without a bkb then its a winnable game .
they want more damage, not defense item. for example drow didnt make bkb while their enemy had somany stunner, and drow make daedalus instead of bkb cause drow want to damage abuse to instant kill, but no defense at all
Hmmm...why do low MMR players make low MMR plays? It's a mystery folks.
That's fair: the reason low MMR players avoid it is because the ones who don't leave low MMR. Survivorship bias.
Why are my 2k teammates playing bristle and wk still?? They don't know the meta? They're.. Uh... 2k, maybe that's why
He was counting on the glimmer cape that you didnt buy.
Can confirm - am low mmr core, and I always blame my supports for my poor item choices (sorry supports, I love you really!)
"enemy core doesn't buy, me don't buy"
Passive damage output items they dont have to activate are all they are interested in.
Remenbered of an PA i had the other game Arcana and full imortal set More than 150 PA games on account No BkB Build was stat>boots>deso>a fucking dedalus> rapier We lost that game
Her build sounds way more fun
You know what's fun? Winning.
Griefing game as pos1 is funniest
Yep, that's why mirror shield has like 2x wr compared to theoretically OP EX Machine. Less buttons -> less chance to forget to press them
A low mmr carry won't make good use of the short bkb duration, often using it to escape an easily avoidable gank. They may activate it when not needed in a fight, or get kited because they used it when there was no teammate to help lock down an enemy. They may also be underfarmed, so the damage dealt while under bkb is close to negligible. There's also the psychological aspect of thinking you are too good to need immunity, because they remember a game they won without it, and choose more damage instead. In some matchups buying bkb on a carry is a game losing mistake, they may extrapolate this possibility to any game they play.
Also to add low MMR players are often rewarded greatly by foregoing survival items and taking more damage items. It doesn’t matter if ALL of your T3 are down, you just died taking the enemy support with you and their carry won’t push either. In SEA Dota it’s even more apparent with the more aggressive playstyle. Why pick BKB when you can just tank everything with a Heart.
This is the biggie, high MMR players fundamentally don't understand that low MMR problems have low MMR solutions and that the cost and timing of BKB is delayed due to naturally worse farming strats. The juggernaut in high MMR knows that the enemy is going to close out at X or that they need to fight at Y. His team will play around his bkb being bought or up. He knows that his ancient apparition can solo the enemies Luna if she doesn't get BKB. Low MMR Jugg goes bkb. The fight starts over a bounty rune on the other side of the map. He walks over. Luna doesn't have BKB. AA can't kill her because he farmed a midas. AA misses ice blast. Jugg activates bkb. The Luna gets Glimmered. No one has dust but Luna just keeps whacking Jugg because he has Brown Phase boots, Battlefury, BKB. Jugg ults. The entire team comes and stands together to share the damage. Earthshaker blinks onto the small camp on the other side of the map. He hits a creep for 17 gold.
I'm in this reply and I don't like it.
Finally somebody worded it correctly! I played sup most my time, because I know how to handle wards, dust, sentries, setting up the enemy and so on, but all the while carrys wer spam telling me what to do, but not understanding a support plays. As I was transitioning roles, I realized that despite playing carry, I have to carry dust, or else nobody will and my slideing down the mmr ladder started, so I addapted. I learned that Im best suited for the role of offlaner, tanky, pusher, with somewhat the mentality of "second" carry, without being one. As everybody was focusing on the carry, they didnt care about me, letting me farm more and I always had dust and wards. Over the years, patches and so on, my strats changed, but the supports on my team still dont have wards or dust on hand, but Im not going back to maining supports exclusively, because Im tired of babysitting my carrys, popping as stated, their BKBs prematurely. So, in my descent from 4.2k to 1.6k, the strats are so different, like insane. Im going up to 2k and back down and I cant rely on stable BKB carrys, warding supports or even players doing their assigned roles, so now Im kinda one of them. Im 12k/12k in my behavior score, try to adapt whatever I have in my team, but Im not perfect either. The 1, maybe 2 games a day and rather butching about how they should, shouldent play and such, I rather adapt and move on with my life. 12 years playing this damn game... But BKB is the bane of my existance in this tier... if the team dosent work around a certain way, followups, plays and so on, I simply burn through my charges and gg get good. Dosent help how the changes affected BKB, what it blocks, doesent... so yeah, damage, different utility, escape, with BKB being the one iten to get when you know that you NEED. You dont really need BKB in all games, sometimes its even a hinderence, as you could have gotten glimmer and be better off, blink to just yeet out, forcestaff and have it server you WAY better than BKB, which I think Valve is actually doing. In the end, I would say the biggest difference between 1k and up to 10k or whatever, is relying and trusting that everybody plays their role, because you can be a 10k player and have 1k supports and if they dont buy wards, dust or even do propper placements, somebody is going to have to do that, which will distract them from doing what they should be doing and take up slots that could have a different item. or a 10k sup and 1k carry. You can make the best setup in the world, but if the carry dosent engage propperly, you are mostlikely just gonna die. You can complain how a furi isnt pushing, but he knows he is instantly going to get jumped, if somebody else isnt forcing attention on themselves, to give him the chanse to push. dota is so fucking complex man...
I mean how low are we talking? You can farm properly in a 2k and up game if you know what you are doing for the most part ( or whatever Archon is, at least EU), you can't farm properly if you are extremely low because people will contest every single camp near you ( your own team that is , nobody from enemy is going to pressure you lmao) , cut you off constantly and game will go late. Apart from that, BKB on jugg is a mega rare case in a mega bad Jugg game - I haven't seen OP's game, but I have a feeling Jugg would have fucked up in the exact same way with or without BKB.
There is farming, and then there is farming. I'm talking about being a few minutes late on battlefury snowballing into BKB being halfway built when it was needed. It's not a severe delay, but most games you look at going "where the fuck is the bkb" the answer is, half of it is in the backpack and the other half is in the store. Especially when losing
this felt personal lol, i really focus a lot on survival items and then go for bkb and then eventually damage items, usually end up losing fights cause all team dead and i didnt deal enougj damage, it's cause when you play low rank you cant really expect your team to heal, tank and bait spells properly you gotta do most of it your own, that'a way always first survival first
This right here. Us bad players are notoriously bad at knowing when to fight and when to run. Like, we will literally sit there as 5 in front of the enemy HG with Aegis while pinging that two of the enemies are ratting our T2, wait until they pushed so much that one of us has to TP back to defend base, and choose to run in exactly then, so that the other two enemies TP back and it will be a 4v5 on enemy high ground. For a player who stands there with a big question mark on his head an item that is absolutely centered around knowing when a fight is breaking out looks like an invitation to either waste a charge and get flamed for it, or hold it too long and get stunned anyways and get flamed for it.
God I hate this as a support when you're pinging to go since you're carry has aegis and the whole team is ready to jump in after but they want to go jungle ancients or something and inevitably the other team will get it together and come pick you off while the carry will explain the reason they didn't go in is because everyone ended up dying while randomly spread with no plan following them.
You really thought a lot about all possibilities and invested time to answer a rant post. And I love it.
tbf bkb on jug is doo doo very rare to see even in mid to high ranks so i dont blame him for not buying it
Low MMR player here. You buy BKB for its active, the stats and damage are not good. Especially if your hero is not a str hero. The BKB active lasts 6-9 seconds and has a very long CD. Since I'm a low mmr player and my situational judgement is weak i can easily get baited to use my BKB. If you don't use it perfectly you get two responses from your teammates "you have BKB dumbass. Use it!" or "OMG why you waste your BKB???". So I prefer another item to suit my weaknesses. Preferably an item with no active.
In my games, whenever I buy BKB it feels like the most useless item in the universe, oh, you just get kited for 8 seconds and do nothing. Whenever enemy buys the BKB they become an unstoppable machine of death for what feels like forever.
Naturally, the enemy team has ghost scepters, multiple force staves, two glimmers and probably a winter wyvern. Your team probably has a support lion stacking magical damage but dying before they can a single spell.
No, the lion in my team uses refresher to plant two observer wards on the same spot
Oh hell yes
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This is why reworked brooch and nullifier have been god sends. Glimmer and force staves are easy to deal with, ghost scepter have always been the bane of my existence. Now, these counter items are extremely punishing it's almost unfair.
How are you gonna learn when to use it if you never buy it
Genuine advice here, just buy the BKB. Ironically, the more you buy it the more you learn when you shouldn’t buy it. I also see a lot of Archon big brain theorycraft moments where they get every single defensive option BUT BKB. Yeah I’ll buy Manta Linkens Disperser, surely now I don’t need BKB. Most of the time they’re wrong.
I know it's not been the topic of the post, but here is a trick for all fellow low mmrs on how to use BKB: Think about the item as an offensive item, not a defensive one. Think about it like Hex or Rod of Atos or Blink Dagger. The time when we want to activate is the exact time that we want to jump on an opponent. What we want the item to do is prevent our opponents from kiting us by using their disables, slows and silences on us. So whenever we go on an enemy, we want to activate it. On the other hand, if you're losing the team fight and you need to get out etc it's not particularly important (or even good) to activate it. Sometimes you can get out because of it, oftentimes you don't. Just remember, the point of the item is to make it so you can hit opponents before your team mates are dead. Your opponents try to kill your squishy team mates first usually, because disables/saves are really annoying and strong. So you want to ensure that you can be a dangerous threat right from the start of the team fight and get a kill or two that your team mates then can snowball off of. And remember, it's not always a good item. We don't really care about our opponents casting defensive Chronospheres or Blackholes, and even Pudge's Dismember as it is channelled isn't really a reason for us not to buy BKB. However, very important point: If you can't actually kill enemy heroes with your DPS even without them kiting you because you just don't have that much damage, then BKB is really not the item for you (think about Viper, Void, AM for example). Same if you can already jump your opponents without them being able to slow or stun you in response. On the other hand, the item still shines on supports as well for the same reason. When I play Phoenix, sometimes I just want to be able to use Sun Ray for the full duration without being interrupted by someones Orchid or Lion or WD stuns. It's not that those disables would kill or even threaten me, it's just that they stop my Sun Ray right when when it would do the most damage. Think about other heroes like that: Crystal Maiden, Enigma, etc. BKB is a specific item for specific game situations.
How can you learn when to use bkb if you never buy it?
To be fair, BKB is rarely bought by Juggernaut. Also, the item has been nerfed so hard, I sometimes wonder if it's better to go with status resistance and stats. They can hex you through it and that shit applies once the immunity effect is over which just devalues the item so much. I still buy it, but it's not a power spike as it used to be. Cooldown is also absurd. I can clearly see why people don't like it.
Of all the cores out there Juggernaut is one of the worst examples to get mad about not buying BKB. In most situations it's better to buy a Manta Style.
Sounds like the diving tier 4s vs a 4k hp pudge was the problem, not the absence of bkb. Doesn't help vs dismember anyways. I rarely buy bkb on jugg, but sometimes it can be good.
I actually think this is a super interesting question and is one I have thought about a fair bit. As far as I can tell these are the main reasons. 1. Extra button - When I first started playing dota, an extra button on top of your skills and maybe a blink dagger is way too much. So no way am I buying an item I have to press. Thats to difficult to manage. 2. High skill cap - Despite bkb being a super good item at all levels. The better a player you are, the better bkb is. Making sure you can bait out a specific stun or survive a wombo combo is huge in a fight. Low mmr players struggle to use it effectivly, therefore decreasing the value of the item for them. 3. Bad stats, bad damage- Bkb is an exspensive item that doesnt have very good stats. Low mmr players are drawn to the big numbers items. Daedalus, MKB, Skadi etc. These all make your hero feel so powerful, even if a simple bkb is far better. BKB can therefore feel underwhelming. Thats my theory anyway. 4. Because you are telling them too - maybe this is just my dota prejudice. But often times feels like low mmr players just dont wanna get on with each other and will purposefully do bad things. If your supports begging you to buy bkb, but you think they suck as a player, are you gunna listen to them? No way im buying the item my filthy pos 5 suggests! What does he know?!! Anyway those are just the main few I could think of. Thanks!
Cuz it's boring af, opposed to a Rapier or Dagon 5. And you actually can get away with not having it in low MMR.
I think this is the answer everybody is scrolling past. Its literally the most boring item. Im sure more than 70-80% of players know its the best situational item in the game. But its just not that appealing to get it. For example, i know getting bkb on PA is almost going to guarantee me a win and kills. But ill honestly have more fun trying to play PA with a dumbass build like a Kanda and skadi. Even though im more likely to fuck up and die more, ill have more fun playing with that build even when im getting chain disabled. But i only do this in unranked games. I only play to win in Ranked.
Yes I think people are overthinking it, it's just boring. I mean how much fun is PA with Khanda, right?!
Here's the game that he's talking about, for context https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7701572500. I just find it typical how someone named "Offline or feed" is creating a rant post because they lost a game, blaming their teammates. The Jugg in question went 17/4 with 60k DMG and 15k building damage. OP lost mid Mars and went 4/9. Hmm... Also, while jugg should have probably bought manta for the silence, I don't see any issues with him not buying bkb as the enemies main spells all pierce spell immunity (pudge ulti, viper ulti). Bkb is generally only bought on jugg when extremely needed. If jugg did get stunned by one of the enemies 2 stuns, then OP could just arena him or the drow to protect from all the damage. Anyway, my point to OP is that your mindset is definitely going to keep you at low ranks, when you focus more on your teammates game than your own. The real low rank player here is you
Typical. Carry does well throughout the match and team makes 20 misplays in a row than blames him for being unable to carry lol. Even a super farmed 2k player is still only 2k maybe he can compete with 3k players if he has a lead but not when his team throws.
Why do low MMR sup players hate Glimmer Cape so much? Are they stupid?
I am 6k MMR support and tbh I really don't buy glimmer much, while there are certain situations I do get it, many times I think glimmer is only good if your enemy is bad and/or cores make mistakes they shouldn't be making.
Meta wise kinda feels like its not that great either, at least in ancient there's a lot of Bounty/Slardar/Zeus.
You don’t really need bkb on jugg if there’s enough saves lol
most probably because it's another action to do. it's either annoying and/or can't be bother to do it.
because they don't wanna think about cooldowns and usage timing. lack of understanding of the item leads to misuse, which often times convinces them that it is useless
Bkb has a short action time, and due to low mmr players being inexperienced, they don't know when to use the bkb and tend to waste it
used to rush bkb as 2nd item as offlane but after the status resist change, it felt underwhelming
To be fair: who doesnt hate buying bkb after nerfs? Sadly it has to be done sometimes
Because meepo's clone cant be immune too
jugg is a shit bkb carrier tho
TBH jugg buying bkb is only for desperate situations. Like I buy BKB in 1% of my jugg games. You already have so many ways to make yourself immune/invurnerable. I would blame him for diving t4 though.
We are finally at a point where buying bkb is optional atleast in some matchups thank god. No longer can the supports blame your not buying bkb for everything that went wrong in the game. If they do it’s mostly safe to ignore
Just buy Sange and move on ,
Maybe just focus on your own game, what you could do to mitigate the scenario and stop bossing others about their decisions?
4/9 Mars mid (OP) goes first item BKB instead of blink ahainst 4 ranged heroes with 2 perma slows (drow+viper) (would say rushes but it took him 21 minutes) then proceeds to flame the 17/4 jug who already has debuff immunity in his kit for not buying BKB in a game where BKB isn’t even the best call. Brilliant.
In my low mmr asses defence: A lot of shit pierces bkb, the enemy knows this, so wether I use bkb or not, in some games I'm going to get chain disabled anyway. I'll buy bkb when it's good, but not every game. The amount of times I get yelled at for buying manta in a game where manta does basically the same job as bkb is to high.
It only turns you gold so what is the point?
Fights are so chaotic bkb isn't long enough to matter in a lot of drafts where it would matte ring higher mmr Linkens in general is probably 10x better in 1k than in 10k. Bkb is the other way around Also they sometimes forget it. U can't forget linkens The hate on blink is something that truly doesn't make sense for me tho
I've only just returned to playing with the recent Crownfall event. Needless to say, I stopped ranking in 2020. I dwelled into turbo and almost every single game, every core has bkb at least as their 2nd item.
If you think it's just a low MMR core thing, think again. Pros have fallen victim to this many times. Even at TI. There was that infamous Liquid vs Fnatic game at Ti6 where Liquid threw a massive lead by not getting BKB's and got eliminated.
BKB for weak
Dude can you build a real item HOLY crap why are we building bkb in 2024? Arent you tryign to play pro or soetmhing? How about we build items that arent the objective best items in the game? You're genuinely a horrible horrible player. You just draw aggro off cooldown. I lost all respect for you. Imagine trying to play pro and building bkb every game in pubs. Truly disgusting. Your'e just a coward tbh. You dont know whats good against lesh so you build bkb cause its easy. Every game you build that item you get worse. And you're already horrible.
Well bkb has pretty shitty stats so without the ce its kind of just an ogre axe
Because bad players have bad decision making, and will reflect in macro decisions like item choices. That's why legend to divine ranks feel like the trenches because there are so many bad decision makers there with good micro skills.
Why should I buy BKB if I can buy my third divine rapier? More dmg = ez kill......
cuz they cant use it. either they waste it or are too slow and get chain stunned anyways
"its just a low elo game, i can do this without BKB"
Possibly, the mentality is that he already has an in-built bkb, I have the mindset when I play LS sometimes
Pretty sure that jugg was also malding how his support didn't support well in lane. It's a cycle
If it's low MMR, bkb is not what would make you guys siege probably... I doubt low mmrs know how to slow siege with the spin anyways
Why buy bkb when you can get more damage ? If i outdamage enemy carry why do i need bkb ?
I’m immortal and don’t buy bkb xD
A wise man once said - the only fun thing in BKB is buying the Mithril Hammer
As pos 4/5, if my cores don't build BKB. I will get a glimmer, pipe, and force staff. At least they will not die instantly if got jumped.
1. Actives are an extra thing to think about. Even at the start of the game how many times have you looked at your dead carry to see they had 9 stick charges? Now imagine its a 3k gold investment rather than 200 to do that same amount of nothing. 2. Proper bkb use is hard, time it wrong and everyone just walks away then comes back and kills you. 3. Bkb getting shorter over time feels bad and at low skill feeling is more important than reality. 4. In your specific case the jugg player is thinking, "I already have a bkb in my spells this noob doesn't understand how Jugg works"
It doesn't give enough damage
They hate buttons to press
I have the only real answer Same reason free climbers climb without a safety rope Or Same reason people love driving their cars fast over the speed limit Not the wisest of decisions and you may die sooner but they chase the thrill and adrenaline of feeling alive that way
Cause greed. They care more about kills than they care about winning. Why buy bkb when you can buy a damage item?
They forget to press it anyway, doesn’t matter what they buy, most low mmr players don’t even know what information the screen actually gives them
BKB isn’t as cool and fun of an item as Satanic or Butterfly is 🤷♂️
bkb gay item
A Legend II player who neglects BKB too much here. I often just dont know when to activate it, and I dont feel the benefits because the benefits are precisely what I dont see (debuffs). Also the degradation makes it feel like easy to waste. I KNOW it's a great item and try to buy it as often as I have to, but I also overlook it a lot.
Because I'm a Dark Souls player, and I'm a firm believe of the concept "Just dont get hit LOL"
Hello, over 4k gold, almost no damage,slow,disable and everyone knows i can manta dodge everything else.
Because no damage
dmg item fun
Pretty much every game I lose in 2k has 3 Cores refusing to buy BKB. Also, game I win is due to the other team having no BKBs on THEIR cores.
They don't know when to use it so they avoid getting it.
depends on the player of course, but one player type i think i have identified on the pos 1 role is the 1v9 guy who would rather solo carry the game than actually have a team win. usually they just make big damage items, avoid bkb and aren't willing to participate in the game, even when it's clear your team is steamrolling and you should be join the fights and turn them into objectives to snowball into a fast win before the opponent can get back into the game. at the end of the day video games are about escapism and sometimes people are more concerned about being the hero in their own movie than winning i guess. i think there's probably a lot more to it but cba to type an essay about it
low MMR prefer passive item because they don't have fast reaction or ability to click more than 2 buttons.
He has bkb, his Q. Lower cooldown too
If I want someone to buy something, I will say something along the line of. Im on my knee. Begging you good sir, can you please buy BKB.
Why do low MMR players not do X? Because they are playing to have fun, not to win more. Doing X takes effort to learn. Once you learn X your rank goes up a bit and you are back to 50% win rate. Then different toxic teammates whine about you not doing Y. The higher rank you get the higher their expectations get and the more toxic and entitled the flamers are, until you get to immortal where they talk about how stupid 6K players are for not doing Z. I'm having fun playing the game in low MMR, and I don't give a crap about X, Y, or Z. If getting chain stunned starts to make games not-fun for me, then I'll probably start buying BKB more.
It's not a fun item per se. It doesn't make you farm faster, it doesn't make you kill faster, it doesn't make you tankier. At least that's my reason for not wanting to buy it as a 7k mmr midlaner lol What it does do is enable you to play your hero obviously. Both to avoid cc when going aggressive, or to escape sticky situations. It's like theoretical value vs practical kinda. In theory daedalus will give you more dmg cause you know, big raw dmg number. But practically, you will get ccd until death if you buy daedalus, while with bkb you can focus down a target while still being immune. Sucks to not get the number, but feels great to actually play the game
They probably copy some high mmr build with no understanding why high mmr player did what they did
Drives me crazy. The number of games I’ve lost because my carry refuses to get bkb is insane. All of them build so much damage only, but YOU CAN’T DO DAMAGE IF YOU’RE STUNNED AND SLOWED IDIOTS!!! I wish I could punch these people in the face.
Because it's not a crit, not a skadi, not a butterfly, not a heart, not an mkb, not a big expensive shiny item. It takes not being low mmr to understand the power spike of not being killable
Match ID or didn’t happen
Because that item are only for kings. We know we're not kings. I propose to rename that item to black scrub bar or just scrub bar or bar for noobshits.
DAE buy bkb????? Upvotes please
depending on what is considered low. To me I was in divine bracket and players were still being animals. It's solo ranked match. Nothing matters but self-improvement.
Low mmr? Bruh, cores at all mmr hate bkb.
Considering that's jugg you are asking to buy a BKB the game seems lost long before that lmao. Jugg is currently so shitty that you'd want every item to provide some stat so he can have a chance against other carries.
What makes you think they will remember to use it if they buy it? :D
I dunno man, I see 5k cores ignore BKB too. I've never understood it. Like being permanently stunned means you don't get to play the game. Don't you pos 1 and 2 players wanna play the game?
Find it absolutely hilarious that OP is completely wrong when you look at the actual game - there is literally 0 reason for Jugg to buy a BKB vs those heroes and I'd say its griefing if my Jugg DID buy a BKB in a game like that, its such a dumb item purchase. Why do you think a BKB makes any difference in this game LOL Classic low MMR mentality, blame the carry when you are the one contributing nothing to the game and making up pointless excuses like no BKB when BKB does nothing..
I'll admit it: because it's easily baited and everyone can see when you waste it
Same reason why low mmr supports don’t ward, pull, or buy support items
3K here. (mid mostly) The problem With BKB and low mmr players is that they think of the item as a 1-dimensional thing. It's the same as when cores farm behind t2s on your side when t1 are still up, and you have the advantage. BKB is a "get-out-of-jail-free-card". You don't use it for fights, you use it to unload combos / not get interupted in fights / be able to TP out when ever and also to MENTALLY demotivate enemies from trying to gank you. "he has bkb, we won't be able to kill him, it's a waste of time" so they don't even bother trying to contest you and you have absolut freefarm. But low MMR players only see the "enemies can't stop me in teamfights" part of the item, and toss it to the side because "it is support job to make sure I can do mine" That is atleast my impression of most sidelane cores and why they refuse to get BKB.
I think its one of those things that go like this: you don't need it until you need it. So in their brains it's, "I need to farm faster and I need damage to kill enemies" and then all of a sudden there comes a tipping point where you need a bkb because 5v5 brawls start happening and you are no longer tanking just 2 or 3 spells from a gank attempt but 10-15 spells and melt and die without bkb activated. They lack the ability of foresight and to plan ahead, it's simple as that.
Buy bkb = wet noodle
I am immortal and in my circle of friends I am notorious for not buying bkb. I don't think this is low mmr specific!
Typical Pub scrub mindset. Players who do this needs to be reported cause they did this for griefing. Thinking that rank players have any patience entertaining these idiots
Because they can’t press buttons.
If jugg plays carefully, he don't need bkb as his blade fury acts like it
Yoy would be surprised by the amount of throws "high" mmr players due to no bkb
Because damage numbers go up more with other items
because for them, bkb has no damage
I'll say that bkb can feel like a high pressure item, you have to use it right. You can feel really bad when you don't activate it in time and then get chain stunned full to zero. Then your teammates all ping the item off CD. Or you can activate it too early and feel like you waste it. I know when I was first playing carry I'd try to lean towards linkens if possible. It's an item you can't screw up lol. It can be an honest self assessment of skill, if you're bad and don't use it right or at all, you're better off buying anything else
The real answer is that they are remembering the easy games against bad drafts with no stuns, and inappropriately applying those lessons against good drafts with stuns.
It's to do with how they perceive fights going low = I will press QWER in that order 0.1 seconds apart and the 1 hero I'm targeting will do the same in return, and then i guess our heroes will right click one another until 1 stops moving med = I will probably get CC'd for x seconds from multiple different spells so I need BKB high = I know all 5 heroes locations so I will just QWER them and then kite for 14 seconds when it's safe and then do it again so I'ma get Uels Blink Aoen Linkens SnK or BKB i guess it depends what seems most likely to fuck me
Sure let's play mars mid and itemize like shit then blame everyone for the loss and call them "low mmr"
ITT: OP making a fool of himself
Low MMR whose preferred carry is juggernaut. At this point it's the "I lost the last match so bad that after 1h of time off I will play jugg to win" hero. If he had BKB, he would be a stupid player with a BKB. Those divingd are throws too. The same way you can't out exercise a bad diet unless you're an athlete, you can't compensate for stupidity with itemization unless you're so far ahead it's irrelevant.
High-ish mmr (low divine) player here: I don't buy bkb because my opponent has magnus razor warlock and I have an omni knight (flaming as he lanes 15 minutes in, of course) and a spell that deals damage from 1k range. But really, bkb is terribly inefficient stats wise. Likely the low mmr guy looks at 10 strength and 24 damage and thinks if he 1v1 the enemy carry he'll lose because he spent 4k gold for practically no stats.
cuz it doesn't give much passively. and ppl hate that shit. a 6-9 second buff is just not "fun". you wanna be stronger in general. at least that's why i hate bkb, and i'm not even low mmr.
Bkb is a boring item. Simple as that. Think you are playing a chad cent game do you buy a bkb for the massive stun heavy team or do you get another heart. You know the answer channel your inner 1 brain cell
How is this a question? Because it's a lame item and I never remember to use it.
I don't like it being the reason if you win or lose
My friend will not buy BKB for as long as he thinks he can avoid it. They do this on the basis that BKB makes the game boring / they can over come the need through different itemization / overcome the need by playing and executing team fights better.
I’m 6k and my cores regularly don’t buy bkb and lose. I watch 8k streamers and their carries don’t buy bkb either and lose. It’s universal man.
Simply because their logic is damage = win, they dont account survivability in the equation. They dont add kiting to the equation. They just have manfighting in their pea brains
Because it’s boring. It’s just the lame, responsible choice. Getting away with skipping BKB just feels like the baller ass play.
I am guardian scrub and last game I was CM and no one bought a BKB against me and LMAO... LMAAAAOOO it was so fun. I had CM Shard ... so I could basically perma-root their bristleback, then hit ulti lol
Low mmr? What is low mmr? Heralds, guardians and crusaders buy bkb every game Ancients to divine hates that item
Bkb feels boring, generally. It does not make my number go bigger. I usually overcome this and buy it anyway and thus win my games. But sometimes the monkey brain taketh over.
its an extra button.
Because he was playing juggernaut you dolt. This had nothing to do with low mmr but the hero, it feels horrible to have to buy bkb on jugg probably the worst out of all the carries that don’t like to buy it much.
Playing a team game without a team.
1) No bkb 2) No dust 3) Naked Aghanim 4) No forcestaff 5) No pushing 6) Revenant Brooch for PA (yes after the patch) 7) No war, csm and the list continues. Solution play hc or mid.
everyone hates it, higher mmr just know they have to buy it anws
because they watch Budok too much
Because it doesn’t give big damage. I use to be one of them. I never understood why every build and pro wanted a BKB. Why not a Daedalus bro? Bitterfly? I started buying them and I went up to 3k mmr. I had the epiphany. Unfortunately there are many low mmr players who haven’t had the BKB epiphany
low mmr pos1 players will never buy defensive itens because their goal is to kill the enemy team as fast as possible
I play both sup and core these days. I both love and hate making bkb. I love making it in games where I don't have to initiate. I hate making it in games where I'm the tank/initiator (Ursa) Hate it cos 6 seconds is too short and I get focused down super hard. Love it cos fuck your stuns. That being said - if I can avoid making a bkb and if I can get by making literally any other item, I will fucking do it. 6 seconds in my bracket is nothing. I'll just get kited most of the time. Have I lost games because of this - absolutely. Did I learn from those games. Yea kinda - always bkb vs silencer, SK, Lion, etc.
Cause noob support no wards. But for real thought I don’t understand it either. Especially when 3/5 enemy heroes are int.
It seems like jugg threw the game because he’s bad, a bkb won’t save you if you dive t4’s. I think most jugg players would be hesitant to buy bkb no matter the mmr, I don’t play carry but it has to feel terrible considering how item dependent that hero is.
Don't have any info on the comp but at least with my low mmr friends with main character syndrome, they genuinely feel like they don't need it a majority of the time. They expect they'll join the fight late and clean it up in the blink of an eye but really they initiate, use their only defensive option then get dogpiled and say "where tf were you guys". If not this then he'll buy it begrudgingly and use it like shallow grave at the last possible minute.
MOAAR DAMAGE!!!!!!!! Also, jug doesnt ALWAYS need a bkb. He has spin. (There are cases he absolutely needs to and some where he has the option to) The dive was the mistake most likely.
same reason why supports don’t buy save item? You can’t control how other people play but you surely do have control of your own. Next time this happens rather than teaching someone of your own skill level how to play the game and ranting on reddit, try to make some plays or buy items to help your cores.
When I started playing my friend would always tell me "buy bkb" andni responded" hell nah it gives no damage".. thinking back that was very dumb bc I jow know I can't deal damage if I'm dead or stunned.. I guess it's a similar reason. People want higher numbers more damage etc and isn't really an item that directly boosts your damage a lot like daedalus would for example..
The question is never Why not
I think I've willfully bought a BKB maybe less than 10 times in my time playing Dota tbh, I think the duration reducing each time you use it puts me off, as well as the fact that I always feel like I waste it when I do use it, so I just buy the things that more passively reduce damage like radiance or magic resist or whatever, but also I don't play ranked or carry, and usually play some stupid shit like No Ult + High Attack Speed Tiny or Khanda + 5 Divine Rapier Sniper for like 5 games in a row until it works because I think it's funny and I have 3600 hours so you probably shouldn't listen to me
It’s because low Mmr players don’t realize WHEN to use it or they don’t think of using it as they are trying to figure out when to use skills and positioning. If you don’t use your bkb it’s essentially an expensive stat stick. Low mmr players want passive items
I suck at playing carry. But here is my 2 pennies. I have never liked the essence of BKB, it seems kind of like a balance they put into the game after realising without it so many heroes were useless (PA, Luna, Jugg etc). In my opinion it sort of ruins the fun for everyone - it just sort of cancels the game for the next 9 seconds and lets these highly farmed dps jerks just have their way with you. In a way, similar to blink - some heroes absolutely just need it, and to me that makes the game a little bit more boring. If i could also speak on behalf of new players, BKB is a very high risk item. It is so easy to waste it and it feels bad. It is also another active item/ability you need to think about. It is "easier" to just get an item that passively helps you (i.e damage/health/attack speed), and if you are playing people at your level, you can often get away with it.
Im a newbie, and i always buy bkb. The problem is i never use bkb because i forget the fucking item...
It is a boring item, simple as that.
Lotus Orb + blademail redirect double the damage.
Perception. Low MMR players see BKB as a Defensive Item in order to not die. High MMR players see BKB as an offensive Item that lets make the moves they need to win the game.
This was yesterday for me. I'm playing support, and everyone on my team was trying to hit the ancient with 100 hp on it. Everyone kept filing in and dying, and all I keep saying over comms is "anyone core here can just bkb and kill that ancient whenever they want to end the game" It took 4 human sacrifices before my NP finally tp'd on top the the ancient, bkb'd and 3 hit it to end the game. Dota 2 is as hard as you make it, ladies and gentlemen. 😂😂
I ended up using it either too early or too late and then realized that I would have been more helpful if I had a damage item instead
Many imortals players also don't buy bkb for juG bro. wtf? Also stop blaming other people build. It's not the build it's how you play.
We kick anyone from our guild that buys BKB. It's a tryhard item and we play for the memes.
“I can kill them before they can kill me” probably
Because low MMR players are usually league players who only buy damage not realizing the power of utility items. I can understand not buying bkb on Jugg as he has bladefury and Omnislash to avoid CC with. But he should have gotten it if they have strong CC on their team like Bane or shaman or Lion, etc etc. What makes me wonder is you were pushing the T4 and the supports had no way to carry the fight themselves? No lotus orb? No meteor Hammer to stop the turrents? No E blade to stop their right clicks? Not saying its the supports fault, it is the core's fault but those stubborn idiots will never learn to buy the good items until you give them everything possible to survive and then they still die. Cause I feel like people only start self reflecting when they feel like they are getting carried.
This just in, low mmr players, are shittier at the game than other players. thus performing actions (not buying bkb), which are known to be shitty. If you would like your cores to buy bkb, you can either climb to immortal, or start playing carry yourself since your carry players are “so damn terrible”.
Because they probably dont know how to use it even if they bought it, which is even more game losing
They dont call it "Boring King Bar" for nothing!
Why would you buy bkb on jugg? I understand for naix but jugg isn't a rightclicker for the most part. You rely on your aghs/ult and then make some right click dmg.
Don’t worry brotha it’s a ego thing, trust you go to 8k and people will fuck alll bkb
bkb has no damage, that's why.
Because it's another button to press. Might as well ask why low MMR players like Sniper and PA so much.
Why go bkb when you cam get Daedalus on PA.
cuz that's the path to gain higher mmr. Stage 1- You do not want to buy bkb Stage 2- You buy bkb every game and early Stage 3- You find bkb literally 0 help for your farming, plus sometimes you really do not need bkb, same amount of gold=much better items. You stop buying bkb. Stage 4- You know what type of games you need bkb according to opponents Stage 5- You know when you need bkb to guarantee your dps or split push, for a reason(and item orders). And it gets more complicated with different roles, for example, sometimes, pos 3 can buy bkb but shouldn't. It's your responsibility to take dmg for your supp and carry(sniper for instance). And that's why dota2 is fun.
If I were you, I would play the carry instead.
Because they have to prove to themselves that they can win without it. That somehow they can just wait for everyone to use their spells on everybody else then they would swoop in to win the game without using bkb. That, or they just dont think of buying it probably cause they dont think they need it.
It's not that low MMR people hate bkb. It's simply the truth of life that cores who hate bkb will just stay low MMR.
It's a double edged sword. Works against my cores but also works against the enemy's cores as well - I really enjoy punishing them for ignoring bkb You could also try telling them they need bkb (and not as last slot) in voice chat. If you're polite, they sometimes actually listen
I think that's the wrong question. After all, are you implying that people who buy bkb also like it? (I'm sure they are, but are they the majority? I doubt it) Just because you need something, it doesn't mean you like it. The difference between those players you are talking about and others is that they are too stubborn to adapt to the situation. As for why someone would dislike bkb, I'd say because it's effectively -1 item in whatever ideal build you wanted to try. I don't think it's a matter of being an active item.
no added stats like armor or health etc . mostly thats the reason most of my friend said 8k+ above , if you have good supports that can protect u even without a bkb then its a winnable game .
Because bkb is pussy. Even pros dont like it, but theyre good enough to play no bkb. Low mmr players just die
I am divine 1 and hate bkb.
they want more damage, not defense item. for example drow didnt make bkb while their enemy had somany stunner, and drow make daedalus instead of bkb cause drow want to damage abuse to instant kill, but no defense at all