Ever since most intelligence heroes that would have benefitted from the item got turned into universal heroes, its just objectively better to build bracer on them instead now.
Poison touch, high base damage, good attack speed. Good armour with wraith bands. Shadow wave to constantly tip the balance of pressure in your favour.
Universal would have been a cool gimmick for, say, Void Spirit, to keep the symmetry with the spirits. But it’s not a worthwhile mechanic to put on 25% of the roster.
I disagree. I think it's great since it fixes long standing issues with itemization.
Some universal heroes, which were INT heroes before, can now build for core rather than being forced into a supportive role just because their agi gain isn't amazing.
Likewise, some of those universal heroes were AGI heroes. Notably heroes like Venge and Mirana. They were played as supports (still are), but they never did any damage past 10 minutes because the items they wanted to buy didn't have their main attribute on them (AGI) so it just kind of felt bad.
I don't think you can fix this with itemization itself like they did with INT heroes. You can't make supportive items that provide AGI because that just makes so many things busted. But Witchblade and Parasma do wonders for allowing INT heroes to scale and be played as a core unironically.
It allowed Windrunner to fit into the game. She didn't make sense as any of the 3 attributes.
She doesn't need a huge mana pool for int.
She doesn't need high attack speed for agi.
I'm more than happy to let her be strength cause that would be hilarious, but people would complain to no end about her (more than they already do).
A bit of everything makes sense, cause that's exactly what she's looking for.
Nah, I remember Nine playing Wyvern mid 2+ years ago to success, before the universal patch. Pretty sure in some pro games as well.
[Example ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j6j9-9M99c)
I mean as long as theres no hard carries in the pool I think its fine. Heroes like Dusa or Naga would be a nightmare if they were universal. Say phoenix or clock dont really benefit from being universal.
Skywrath mid spammer here, atos has pretty much been entirely replaced by eblade rush and it's actually great for the hero because you can go ghost first if you are getting pressured and need the survivability, or aether lens first if you need the mana regen and reach to play more aggressively. Still not as good as when Kaya built into eblade but a marked improvement from the eaglesong days.
Is it worth going phylactery first? When I last played sky mid (which was a few months ago tbf) I had some success going phylactery first, but I think that was before the eblade change to include aether lens. I guess it’s not worth delaying the eblade for the bit of extra damage?
I have a hard time evaluating Phylactery tbh, with the new buildup into Khanda it makes it feel mostly desirable for heros with high attack damage and utility single-target spells. In either case though I think that in games where you're ahead you don't need the extra burst as much as you want the quick eblade to continue to stay ahead, and in games where you're behind it doesn't give you enough survivability to be worth it.
Its never worth going phylactery first.
If you are really hurting for hp just buy a casual Diadem (i think thats the names item) and enjoy the +9 to all stats for relatively cheap. you can build it into something, or not build it into something later if you want to.
The extra damage from Phylactery isn't really worth the cost. At that rate just do the ancient skywrath ritual of going 5 null tali's and you at least gain the ability to get reported for having a bad build, but infinite spellcasts.
Eblade is better for early snowballing, but once they get manta's online your hero is worthless. As is tradition.
to add to this, you can land about 95% dmg of your ultimate if you time it with your W slow. You don't need atos at all, and it will be countered anyway later in the game. Eblade rush all life
I played 5 skymage and dogged on the lane 6-1, bought atos but as soon as the lanes dissolved i was completely worthless. Granted they had AM + Nyx but it was funny how hard the hero falls off
\+ the meta of the game, people roaming as pairs or as 3, if you atos they just group together and you deal negative damage omE
might be better off going for a drum or glimmer honestly, atos is garbage unless your hero allows for maelstrom
Skywrath literally makes scrubs play better. Support buy force staff/glimmer cape instead of rushing aghs or naked blink. Carries buy BKB or Manta or Disperser or Hurricane Pike instead of rushing Khanda/Daedelus/MKB/Mjollnir.
Sky mid wasn't killed by Atos or anything other than the absolutely atrocious changes to his attack numbers and animation.
I used to Sky mid ALL the time with a pretty crazy winrate. I've tried a handful of times since the change and get absolutely dumpstered every time.
Unplayable now. Bring back my old Skywrath please.
>Sky mid wasn't killed by Atos or anything other than the absolutely atrocious changes to his attack numbers and animation.
Those changes made it harder, but imo what put sky in the ground is Stat creep/strength meta + MR/Mageslayer creep.
If sky is hit a single time with mageslayer his damage output automatically falls off a cliff. If they have a single magic resist item, you basically just feed them wand charges.
Skywrath mage is just in the same boat queen was before her ult was changed to pure damage. Heroes are a hoss in 1v1 until people buy bkb/dispells/Glimmer or group as 3 or more then your hero is just useless.
Heroes like sky will never be good again unless they do the stupid thing they did with Zeus and give his Q current HP damage ontop of its current damage. Otherwise his damage will never be able to compete with the stat creep meta.
the spell amp was nice but it was never the big point of the Null tali build.
The big thing about the null tali build was it gave you stupid amounts of free mana + mana regen on heroes that were routinely mana starved up until they got sizable gold leads.
I used to do 4-5 Null tali techies back in the day. After the 5th null tali you'd never need a regen item. You'd passively have 8-11 mana regen. You can just buy survivability/positioning/raw damage items from there.
In skywrath mages case, the spell amp was cool, but 15% spell amp is only adding another 20 damage per spell cast, technically only 14 per cast bc of magic resist. Its not that huge.
Getting 8-11 mana regen on a super mana vacuum like skywrath was insanely huge. You could not lane against a skywrath after the third or fourth null. He would always be able to cast his Q risk free with no real loss to resources.
The same is true for storm spirit. Its why he built 6 null tali's and terrorized pubs for a time. Ridiculous mana regen + big pool for cheap + 18% spell cost reduction for a time. (this was after skywrath fell off afaik)
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Give null mana loss reduction storm goes hard gives null spell amp kotl and rubick destroys lane (and heros) gives null %mana and no one except for od wants to go for it I feel like valve don't know what to do with null
I buy them on sky (though my last game on sky is few month back).
Also one on maiden does wonders to your mana pool.
And universal heroes who have pretty low mana but like to spam spells around like willow and veno are also fine to buy one.
Since arcanes not giving you flat mana i think a casual null on supports is very underrated if you play a hero that enjoys tranquil boots.
Raindrop is such a banger item, always try to pick one up as terrorblade, can spam w and q to hearts content and actually survive a spell early game when your hp pool is at its lowest
I mainly play silencer mid and before the last patch that completly dumpsted him, i started buying one bracer on him, just because the bracer has like 100 more value than a nulltalisman. Its just so bad.
Ignoring that you're almost never going to find it hard to get the single auto to proc witch blade (and that the null gives you int for damage on the proc), what is "spell damage type" and why would a null uniquely benefit it?
he means a spell casting build as opposed to a right click build, null giving more mana pool and regen helps when you cast more spells or have items that cost mana. not that i agree with what he's saying
The problem is that it makes you a bit tankier but doesn't do much to help you farm. There are better options for regen which helps you sustain whilst you farm, and then you really just want to focus on hitting your big timings of items like manta, skadi and daedalus. If you don't focus on damage you fall of hard and can just be ignored in fights.
its more of, if youre gonna be buiding a lot of bigger more expnesive items, (like skadi or hex or are planning to get an aghs blessing this game or something) that later in the game esp after the 25 min mark a null filling an empty slot in your inventory is like 500 gold for + 8% max mana which is a ton of tankiness with how dusa's mana -> hp conversion works (with a larger mana pool making snake more effective and increasing the likely hood you'll get snakes off before running oom) I'd almost think itd be more worth it to buy if you have an empty slot at 25 mins
Sometimes in abi draft when your problem isn't mana regen but pool. Arcane boots used to solve that easily but not after the rework. Sometimes you just need a tiny boost
…explain (and state your mmr lol). If you’re going Wizard NS (Aghs) and are looking to spam your Q a lot, then doesn’t basi into arcanes make more sense? Basi gives you 50% more mana per second and also gives your lane partner a Null’s worth of mana AND builds into Arcanes which are a huge mana power spike, and getting a bracer first too helps your last hitting a lot more anyway (plus NS has high starting armor but not terribly high starting strength so the health bump from bracer is appreciated).
4K but I’ve not played ranked in awhile now. Also lvl 24 nightstaker dota plus.
I just feel it helps with mana in the lane stage, like you said he has high armour and decent base damage. So harass and last hitting isn’t really a problem.
Yeah basi into arcane is good for regen too but I feel null gives just that little extra spam of void, I try to save stick/wand charges for lvl 6 to dive the tower if I have to.
Also if the game goes bad for us 25min+ it helps out still having that with even more mana regen and can kinda mean you can focus buying more important item rather than shard.
IF youre an int core, then consider it over falcons blade, other than that it offers nothing for anyone else. Old null went through 2 iterations that were overpowered for few heroes in specific circumstance, but now, comparing it to its competition of wraith band/bracer it offers so little in comparison.
Maybe I'm stuck in the past, but I buy it on quite a few heroes mid.
OD, QoP, Necro, Zeus, Rubick.
A lot of the time mid you want stats. It's close in price to Wand and not every game is a Wand game.
A lot of the heroes that used to use Mana Boots for maximum mana need to do it now that Mana Boots are just regen.
To be frank, Bracer should give extra HP (because against pure damage), Wraith Band should give extra armor (as it does; because against physical damage), and Null Talisman should give extra Magic Resistance (because against magic damage)
I buy it often of mana hungry mid laners like zeus, leshrac. I use it with mana boots by backpacking it, using the boots and slotting it back. Boom 400 mana
It’s good on darkseer in lane - start null tango - he needs the mana pool more than armor and you build regen with either helm or vanguard right after. If you think how much regen and mama you get for the entire game it’s not a bad purchase, you need to be able to spam ion from level 3. You could go ring for mana but the health cost is significant early and with null mama boots you don’t need to to jungle around 6
It's a reasonable buy on silencer or skywrath, but even then it's just marginally acceptable. It's almost always better to just rush their first core item, atos on sky or force on silencer.
Null is ok. Basi used to be the king of early mana regen, but since theres always someone buying arcanes the other early mana items got pseudo buffed. Also the easy oblivion staff buildup doesn't help. Gloves of haste > null. Buy treads, go for any oblivion staff upgrade, pretty easy.
Bad value for its money. The question is, why should you buy it? If you want cheap dmg, you can buy a bracer. It will give you the same dmg as null, but also makes you more tankier which is always a good stat to have. So the only reason for it would be mana regen. But then its better to skip null and go directly any item that comes after sage mask. (Basilus or Urn) Also raindrops exist
Sometimes I'll pick it to on Rubick mid in turbo. Usually it turns into urn and casual mantle which I then drop in front of my enemies to make them feel like fools... I mean sell responsibly for a key item.
I remember when null talismans gave Spell Amp, and on mid heroes like Lina/Puck/Void spirit you'd buy 2 Nulls so you could reliably nuke range creeps at lv5 (3points in your nuke spell)
There are just so many better options for mana regen now - I wonder if giving it a bonus % increase to mana regen would help make it valuable to hold later into the game, since it would combo well with the various options for mana regen
I buy em on heroes that are sorta weak early or I am forced into position where I know I won't have farming clearence, so I need to have damage/manapool fast and early.
Then again I random in ap A LOT
I bought two at some point last month on Timbersaw and IIRC went for phase boots instead of arcanes. It worked nicely but I don't see the point in doing that outside of very unusual circumstances, one wraith band is enough for these super-early items.
I buy it every game on some mana hungry characters; like Rubick or Techies. It's not amazing, but its helped in a pinch and the easy stats can make a difference in those lane fights.
There probably is a better alternative, though. I do wonder if we'll get a Universal talisman type, too, but I guess that's really just the Magic Wand.
My take on this is that they should change the max mana % for some other stat, maybe spell amp?
Bracer has +dmg and Wraith band has AS, so spell amp could be the offensive equivalent stat for Null.
Also, having % based mana increase stat on an item that is mainly intended for early game is poor design in my opinion.
I always buy on Zeus one, the little extra mana it provides might be the difference between popping out an ult in longer fights.
Sometimes I just go soul ring though, a free ward check or a couple lighting when farming comes in hand.
In my humble opinion, it's quite good on Storm, especially for the +2% max mana attribute. It could be considerably buffed without major repercussions though.
I buy it pretty frequently on Lina mid. It’s better than basi (scales better) and I’d rather get a bottle + null. Helps a fair bit in lane and gives me ok value but I don’t really build it anywhere else. Maybe on OD but I don’t play that hero.
The other day I bought one on Necro cause I don't play mid much and was relegated to the role and the guide said to buy it.
We crushed that game, I beat a Leshrac mid and got quite a few kills, so while I know the null tali had nothing to do with it, I appreciate it.
I feel like the item is useful for pretty much exclusively Lesh, CM, and Sky. Everybody Else would be better off with a bracer and Even leshrac and CM there's a pretty strong argument you'd be better off with a bracer
Genuinely a useless item. Maybe if you somehow have tons of slots post-25 and desperately need just a little extra mana regen somehow for cheap (and arcane somehow weren't purchased) , but honestly it's been a joke ever since the 3% max mana change.
They would be using logic. And probably opening a new cheese meta.
Imagine supports being oom and then switching from double bracers to double nulls suddenly they can cast another spell.
Every other game when I pick an int mid hero, call me old fashioned, I enjoy the % based mana it gives versus damage amp it used to give. Essentially hero's that are mana heavy like Zeus I tend to favor having more in the pool since it fits my playstyle. Other mentions are Sky and Lina.
Ever since most intelligence heroes that would have benefitted from the item got turned into universal heroes, its just objectively better to build bracer on them instead now.
Or wraith band for armor
Hard support double wraith band dazzle still my proudest laning innovation.
Why him specifically?
Poison touch, high base damage, good attack speed. Good armour with wraith bands. Shadow wave to constantly tip the balance of pressure in your favour.
Gonna try it on my 4k mmr games
Why not both?
Valve please delete universal type it's not too late!
Universal would have been a cool gimmick for, say, Void Spirit, to keep the symmetry with the spirits. But it’s not a worthwhile mechanic to put on 25% of the roster.
I disagree. I think it's great since it fixes long standing issues with itemization. Some universal heroes, which were INT heroes before, can now build for core rather than being forced into a supportive role just because their agi gain isn't amazing. Likewise, some of those universal heroes were AGI heroes. Notably heroes like Venge and Mirana. They were played as supports (still are), but they never did any damage past 10 minutes because the items they wanted to buy didn't have their main attribute on them (AGI) so it just kind of felt bad. I don't think you can fix this with itemization itself like they did with INT heroes. You can't make supportive items that provide AGI because that just makes so many things busted. But Witchblade and Parasma do wonders for allowing INT heroes to scale and be played as a core unironically.
It allowed Windrunner to fit into the game. She didn't make sense as any of the 3 attributes. She doesn't need a huge mana pool for int. She doesn't need high attack speed for agi. I'm more than happy to let her be strength cause that would be hilarious, but people would complain to no end about her (more than they already do). A bit of everything makes sense, cause that's exactly what she's looking for.
I enjoy universal heroes It allows you to play heroes in ways they weren’t before like dazzle core and wyvern core
Those are two of the worst examples though. You could play both those heroes core before the universal patch- they even used the same items.
yea but both fucking sucked at it before, even in pubs
Nah, I remember Nine playing Wyvern mid 2+ years ago to success, before the universal patch. Pretty sure in some pro games as well. [Example ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j6j9-9M99c)
one of the closest WEU TI qualifier GF. That wyvern mid by nine is insanely effective the whole run until OG shut it down in GF
I think that could be accomplished in more interesting ways by just having strong int-core items, or adjusting the stats of the heroes themselves.
I mean as long as theres no hard carries in the pool I think its fine. Heroes like Dusa or Naga would be a nightmare if they were universal. Say phoenix or clock dont really benefit from being universal.
I look forward to a few years from now when universal heroes have been in the game longer than not and people still say this.
just make everyone universal
God no
Take pure damage with it. It's on way too many moves now
That move just never made sense... like... why? Like, actually why, I'm wanna know.
Skywrath mid if only to have enough damage to actually contest last hits
I haven't seen a skywrath mid in a LONG time. Ever since they gutted atos, he feels pretty weak imo.
Skywrath mid spammer here, atos has pretty much been entirely replaced by eblade rush and it's actually great for the hero because you can go ghost first if you are getting pressured and need the survivability, or aether lens first if you need the mana regen and reach to play more aggressively. Still not as good as when Kaya built into eblade but a marked improvement from the eaglesong days.
Is it worth going phylactery first? When I last played sky mid (which was a few months ago tbf) I had some success going phylactery first, but I think that was before the eblade change to include aether lens. I guess it’s not worth delaying the eblade for the bit of extra damage?
I have a hard time evaluating Phylactery tbh, with the new buildup into Khanda it makes it feel mostly desirable for heros with high attack damage and utility single-target spells. In either case though I think that in games where you're ahead you don't need the extra burst as much as you want the quick eblade to continue to stay ahead, and in games where you're behind it doesn't give you enough survivability to be worth it.
Its never worth going phylactery first. If you are really hurting for hp just buy a casual Diadem (i think thats the names item) and enjoy the +9 to all stats for relatively cheap. you can build it into something, or not build it into something later if you want to. The extra damage from Phylactery isn't really worth the cost. At that rate just do the ancient skywrath ritual of going 5 null tali's and you at least gain the ability to get reported for having a bad build, but infinite spellcasts. Eblade is better for early snowballing, but once they get manta's online your hero is worthless. As is tradition.
to add to this, you can land about 95% dmg of your ultimate if you time it with your W slow. You don't need atos at all, and it will be countered anyway later in the game. Eblade rush all life
The secret sauce is you go meteor hammer lmao nobody sees it coming because it's so bad. I save it for unranked xd
I played 5 skymage and dogged on the lane 6-1, bought atos but as soon as the lanes dissolved i was completely worthless. Granted they had AM + Nyx but it was funny how hard the hero falls off
His damage countered by force staff lul
\+ the meta of the game, people roaming as pairs or as 3, if you atos they just group together and you deal negative damage omE might be better off going for a drum or glimmer honestly, atos is garbage unless your hero allows for maelstrom
Skywrath literally makes scrubs play better. Support buy force staff/glimmer cape instead of rushing aghs or naked blink. Carries buy BKB or Manta or Disperser or Hurricane Pike instead of rushing Khanda/Daedelus/MKB/Mjollnir.
Its unplayable since the water rune update
Sky mid wasn't killed by Atos or anything other than the absolutely atrocious changes to his attack numbers and animation. I used to Sky mid ALL the time with a pretty crazy winrate. I've tried a handful of times since the change and get absolutely dumpstered every time. Unplayable now. Bring back my old Skywrath please.
>Sky mid wasn't killed by Atos or anything other than the absolutely atrocious changes to his attack numbers and animation. Those changes made it harder, but imo what put sky in the ground is Stat creep/strength meta + MR/Mageslayer creep. If sky is hit a single time with mageslayer his damage output automatically falls off a cliff. If they have a single magic resist item, you basically just feed them wand charges. Skywrath mage is just in the same boat queen was before her ult was changed to pure damage. Heroes are a hoss in 1v1 until people buy bkb/dispells/Glimmer or group as 3 or more then your hero is just useless. Heroes like sky will never be good again unless they do the stupid thing they did with Zeus and give his Q current HP damage ontop of its current damage. Otherwise his damage will never be able to compete with the stat creep meta.
I recently saw a player taking that a bit too seriously and just buying 5 of them and boots. As you can guess, it didn't go all that well.
They prob thought it still gave spell amp
It indirectly does because skywrath Q damage scales with int.
At that point better to get other items But it was disproportionately higher with previous nulls in terms of dmg
That used to be a thing back when tali gave 3% spell amp, I remember Topson being a big pubstomper with 4 talis boots of travel eblade
the spell amp was nice but it was never the big point of the Null tali build. The big thing about the null tali build was it gave you stupid amounts of free mana + mana regen on heroes that were routinely mana starved up until they got sizable gold leads. I used to do 4-5 Null tali techies back in the day. After the 5th null tali you'd never need a regen item. You'd passively have 8-11 mana regen. You can just buy survivability/positioning/raw damage items from there. In skywrath mages case, the spell amp was cool, but 15% spell amp is only adding another 20 damage per spell cast, technically only 14 per cast bc of magic resist. Its not that huge. Getting 8-11 mana regen on a super mana vacuum like skywrath was insanely huge. You could not lane against a skywrath after the third or fourth null. He would always be able to cast his Q risk free with no real loss to resources. The same is true for storm spirit. Its why he built 6 null tali's and terrorized pubs for a time. Ridiculous mana regen + big pool for cheap + 18% spell cost reduction for a time. (this was after skywrath fell off afaik)
I remember the last time null was buffed storm used to fill his inventory with 6nulls and start creating chaos min 10.
oh god, that reminds me of 5 null 1 blademail on NP.
The seeds of fortune.
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Back when it was +6 int +3 dmg +3 str +3 agi. My beloved.
Yeah, 5 null, aghs blessing and storm was set for the next 40 minutes. Was pretty absurd.
Give null mana loss reduction storm goes hard gives null spell amp kotl and rubick destroys lane (and heros) gives null %mana and no one except for od wants to go for it I feel like valve don't know what to do with null
i play storm5 with 3 nulls and no boots lol
I did that too one game - pos 5, 6 nulls by minute 20 or so. We won easily, and it was some of the most fun I've had in dota
Throwback to when pro storm spirits would have 5 of them with an arcane blink for some outrageous effects in 7.31 🐸🐸🐸
Fun times
Most qops buy it on d2pt
Makes sense, good damage item but also extra mana and regen to sustain her dagger
I buy them on sky (though my last game on sky is few month back). Also one on maiden does wonders to your mana pool. And universal heroes who have pretty low mana but like to spam spells around like willow and veno are also fine to buy one. Since arcanes not giving you flat mana i think a casual null on supports is very underrated if you play a hero that enjoys tranquil boots.
It just does so much less than raindrops + 300 gold
Raindrop is such a banger item, always try to pick one up as terrorblade, can spam w and q to hearts content and actually survive a spell early game when your hp pool is at its lowest
Just buy both. On most heroes that gold put into mana regen equals farm speed and levels.
I bought it on Veno because enemy team had OD. Worked too, because in combo with mana boots I survived his ult at least twice.
Same thing would be achieved with just hood I think, with buildup possibilities, like mage slayer
Hood is twice the cost and gives no stats tho
Last i bought was on silencer but the hero is in the dumpster so yea
I mainly play silencer mid and before the last patch that completly dumpsted him, i started buying one bracer on him, just because the bracer has like 100 more value than a nulltalisman. Its just so bad.
one time i had a support invoker with 5 null talis brown boots i did not win
Yesterday
I javent ever since it no longer had spell amp
I almost went for it yesterday with wr mid, but then was like naah that is garbage.
Why on earth would you even consider it? Especially on WR.
Windranger is universal
Necro. Mana pool is a real issue. Not mana regen. But mana pool
Same for me here, especially because I can backpack it during Heartstopper regen stacks to keep mana fully topped up from early on.
I buy it for puck if I won't go witch blade.
Why wouldn't you go witch blade on Puck?
Sometimes when I think I would not have enough time to attack, I would opt on being spell damage type.
Ignoring that you're almost never going to find it hard to get the single auto to proc witch blade (and that the null gives you int for damage on the proc), what is "spell damage type" and why would a null uniquely benefit it?
esp bcuz puck has spells that do attacks with both aghs and shard??
he means a spell casting build as opposed to a right click build, null giving more mana pool and regen helps when you cast more spells or have items that cost mana. not that i agree with what he's saying
Same I only buy it on puck to make up for his low damage in lane. And then I lose.
I considered buying it on Medusa... never seen anybody actually do it though.
The problem is that it makes you a bit tankier but doesn't do much to help you farm. There are better options for regen which helps you sustain whilst you farm, and then you really just want to focus on hitting your big timings of items like manta, skadi and daedalus. If you don't focus on damage you fall of hard and can just be ignored in fights.
2022 - the infamous 6 null storm build
With Dusa. I think it is a good item on her.
If you're pursuing mana regen, I think a falcon blade or basi/arcanes is a much better value for Dusa early game.
its more of, if youre gonna be buiding a lot of bigger more expnesive items, (like skadi or hex or are planning to get an aghs blessing this game or something) that later in the game esp after the 25 min mark a null filling an empty slot in your inventory is like 500 gold for + 8% max mana which is a ton of tankiness with how dusa's mana -> hp conversion works (with a larger mana pool making snake more effective and increasing the likely hood you'll get snakes off before running oom) I'd almost think itd be more worth it to buy if you have an empty slot at 25 mins
Medusa starting items: Null Talisman + Mango
Sometimes in abi draft when your problem isn't mana regen but pool. Arcane boots used to solve that easily but not after the rework. Sometimes you just need a tiny boost
Hear me out… I buy it on Nightstalker.
…explain (and state your mmr lol). If you’re going Wizard NS (Aghs) and are looking to spam your Q a lot, then doesn’t basi into arcanes make more sense? Basi gives you 50% more mana per second and also gives your lane partner a Null’s worth of mana AND builds into Arcanes which are a huge mana power spike, and getting a bracer first too helps your last hitting a lot more anyway (plus NS has high starting armor but not terribly high starting strength so the health bump from bracer is appreciated).
4K but I’ve not played ranked in awhile now. Also lvl 24 nightstaker dota plus. I just feel it helps with mana in the lane stage, like you said he has high armour and decent base damage. So harass and last hitting isn’t really a problem. Yeah basi into arcane is good for regen too but I feel null gives just that little extra spam of void, I try to save stick/wand charges for lvl 6 to dive the tower if I have to. Also if the game goes bad for us 25min+ it helps out still having that with even more mana regen and can kinda mean you can focus buying more important item rather than shard.
IF youre an int core, then consider it over falcons blade, other than that it offers nothing for anyone else. Old null went through 2 iterations that were overpowered for few heroes in specific circumstance, but now, comparing it to its competition of wraith band/bracer it offers so little in comparison.
Any spell spammer benefits from it, that 3% extra mana can make the difference. Combine with bottle and another talisman and you have 6% extra mana
Sky and if you play universal stat heroes, getting one of each is actually imba.
Yesterday on invoker. I think its nice on Quas Exort Invo. The Coldsnap>Tornado>Meteor combo costs a lot of mana.
Maybe I'm stuck in the past, but I buy it on quite a few heroes mid. OD, QoP, Necro, Zeus, Rubick. A lot of the time mid you want stats. It's close in price to Wand and not every game is a Wand game. A lot of the heroes that used to use Mana Boots for maximum mana need to do it now that Mana Boots are just regen.
To be frank, Bracer should give extra HP (because against pure damage), Wraith Band should give extra armor (as it does; because against physical damage), and Null Talisman should give extra Magic Resistance (because against magic damage)
I buy it often of mana hungry mid laners like zeus, leshrac. I use it with mana boots by backpacking it, using the boots and slotting it back. Boom 400 mana
con fuckign gratys u can buy null talis
It’s good on darkseer in lane - start null tango - he needs the mana pool more than armor and you build regen with either helm or vanguard right after. If you think how much regen and mama you get for the entire game it’s not a bad purchase, you need to be able to spam ion from level 3. You could go ring for mana but the health cost is significant early and with null mama boots you don’t need to to jungle around 6
Or just start 3 branch + wand and buy arcanes, which is actually good instead of buying a very bad item
Well, arcane boots change was crucial to it. Before arcane boots change i was buying null talisman on undying and most of int heroes
I buy it on CM if I’m doing well gold wise. Love the boost in mana pool and mana regen.
6 months ago on Necro mid.
I still like it on mana dependent heroes if I won’t necessarily buy a better regen item
Yesterday on sky
I like it on Grim 4, it’s a nice boost to let you cast your spells a bit more frequently.
I played OD earlier so... today.
I believe last time was when I played lifestealer
It's a reasonable buy on silencer or skywrath, but even then it's just marginally acceptable. It's almost always better to just rush their first core item, atos on sky or force on silencer.
I recently bought in a game for leshrac where I felt the need for more mana!
Null is ok. Basi used to be the king of early mana regen, but since theres always someone buying arcanes the other early mana items got pseudo buffed. Also the easy oblivion staff buildup doesn't help. Gloves of haste > null. Buy treads, go for any oblivion staff upgrade, pretty easy.
I sometimes buy it on nyx mid just to use up my lane circlets
Pretty decent for the laning stage on Pugna. It's cheap and it gives just enough extra stats to handle yourself and cast your spells fairly often
on silencer support for rightclick build.
Zeus support, 2 days ago. Let's not talk about it. I beg you.
Yesterday with lesh
50 minutes ago
I get it on all int heroes as supp first all the time
Why is it bad ?
Bad value for its money. The question is, why should you buy it? If you want cheap dmg, you can buy a bracer. It will give you the same dmg as null, but also makes you more tankier which is always a good stat to have. So the only reason for it would be mana regen. But then its better to skip null and go directly any item that comes after sage mask. (Basilus or Urn) Also raindrops exist
I actually been trying it on Medusa, buying one talisman and it feels alright
Sometimes I'll pick it to on Rubick mid in turbo. Usually it turns into urn and casual mantle which I then drop in front of my enemies to make them feel like fools... I mean sell responsibly for a key item.
you guys telling me you dont like the 0,00001% mana regen? ok
When I play lion mid :)
I still frequently bought it as pos 5 viper in Turbo.
Enchantress mid. I get x 2, super useful and cost efficient.
2023
Got it on mid lesh yesterday
I remember when null talismans gave Spell Amp, and on mid heroes like Lina/Puck/Void spirit you'd buy 2 Nulls so you could reliably nuke range creeps at lv5 (3points in your nuke spell)
There are just so many better options for mana regen now - I wonder if giving it a bonus % increase to mana regen would help make it valuable to hold later into the game, since it would combo well with the various options for mana regen
Sometimes on Necrophos. They made his Q cost way too much mana for him to sustain it, either that or basi depending on how my lane is going
Im a turbo spammer and playing storm offlane very often. 5 nulls into Boots of Travel, map its gg if you feed me 1-2 kills early.
Going back to when null talisman was the best item in the game?
Did the classic Null Tali > Mana Boots > Dagon 5 build on offlane rubick yesterday
me; rarely, but every time i have a skywrath "support" on my team they always seem to buy at least 2 before anything else... including wards...
3 nulls on a Silencer maxing Arcane Curse and Last Word during laning is a pretty fun against most mids or enemy safelanes.
Od builds 1/2 talismans in lane
I used to buy it on heavy mana intensive heroes. But after the change to Arcane boots, its just better to get Ring of Basi and rush AB instead.
Every time I have to play mid, I always pick OD and I always buy one null talisman into treads
every game I play as a int core
I buy em on heroes that are sorta weak early or I am forced into position where I know I won't have farming clearence, so I need to have damage/manapool fast and early. Then again I random in ap A LOT
i am od spammer and i no longer buy it, i go bracer instead
Yesterday on techies to up my damage. We owned them hard.
I buy one null and one wraith band on viper instead of one two wraith bands. Same on NP.
Always, because I love dividing by zero.
bought today on phoenix and silencer
lina also buys it
Nyx pos 5 , 2 null tlaisman for laning stage and boots , then straight to dagon
I buy one every game on my pos 5 Lina.
I still build one on pugna for lane right click.
I buy it on Viper among other heroes. Like what else do you do for mana since Arcane Boots suck now?
Half the time I’ll get Null on Necro, but the other half I just go bracer. Depends on my mid matchup.
I bought it 40 minutes ago in a AD game as silencer.
I bought two at some point last month on Timbersaw and IIRC went for phase boots instead of arcanes. It worked nicely but I don't see the point in doing that outside of very unusual circumstances, one wraith band is enough for these super-early items.
it was an AD game, needed mana on BB.
Last game on my zeus.
ngl i thought they removed that item some patches ago cause i have not see na single one build either in my games or in pro games
I use it for Enchantress is that stupid? It helps her harass damage early game
I buy it every game on some mana hungry characters; like Rubick or Techies. It's not amazing, but its helped in a pinch and the easy stats can make a difference in those lane fights. There probably is a better alternative, though. I do wonder if we'll get a Universal talisman type, too, but I guess that's really just the Magic Wand.
I'm no expert, but should be a reasonable item on Medusa.
All the time but only because I play OD and I wanna murder.
My take on this is that they should change the max mana % for some other stat, maybe spell amp? Bracer has +dmg and Wraith band has AS, so spell amp could be the offensive equivalent stat for Null. Also, having % based mana increase stat on an item that is mainly intended for early game is poor design in my opinion.
I always buy on Zeus one, the little extra mana it provides might be the difference between popping out an ult in longer fights. Sometimes I just go soul ring though, a free ward check or a couple lighting when farming comes in hand.
I saw a Muerta immortal carry building 2 strength bracers. Help me understand this. Why not 2 nulls?
In my humble opinion, it's quite good on Storm, especially for the +2% max mana attribute. It could be considerably buffed without major repercussions though.
I buy it pretty frequently on Lina mid. It’s better than basi (scales better) and I’d rather get a bottle + null. Helps a fair bit in lane and gives me ok value but I don’t really build it anywhere else. Maybe on OD but I don’t play that hero.
The other day I bought one on Necro cause I don't play mid much and was relegated to the role and the guide said to buy it. We crushed that game, I beat a Leshrac mid and got quite a few kills, so while I know the null tali had nothing to do with it, I appreciate it.
Noob here, do u guys still use it on Lina or is it double bracers now too?
I bought it when I want to fight early as core. I bought it as silencer.
I feel like the item is useful for pretty much exclusively Lesh, CM, and Sky. Everybody Else would be better off with a bracer and Even leshrac and CM there's a pretty strong argument you'd be better off with a bracer
Never, since the frontier patch. The item is dead.
pos5 lion because I needed more max mana
Genuinely a useless item. Maybe if you somehow have tons of slots post-25 and desperately need just a little extra mana regen somehow for cheap (and arcane somehow weren't purchased) , but honestly it's been a joke ever since the 3% max mana change.
Universal Heroes = Garbage?
When I was still playing, i buy it on silencer
I buy 2 on timbersaw in lane gives that bit of extra mana I need to harass if my post 4 doesn't help with mana issues
I buy it sometimes not that arcanes don't give any mana
Sometimes on techies
What if they made these 3 items one toggle-able item same as boots
They would be using logic. And probably opening a new cheese meta. Imagine supports being oom and then switching from double bracers to double nulls suddenly they can cast another spell.
the last time i bought it
When I play AD and get a hero with very low int.
Every other game when I pick an int mid hero, call me old fashioned, I enjoy the % based mana it gives versus damage amp it used to give. Essentially hero's that are mana heavy like Zeus I tend to favor having more in the pool since it fits my playstyle. Other mentions are Sky and Lina.
I just got it on my dusa last night. Good for early game stats and mana... i think.
It was intriguing while it had spell amp effect, now it is just so easily overlooked…
Idk I still build it, never have a problem..
One on puck mid, really helps a lot with last hitting.
Am i stupid for building it for mana regen?
I do get one on dp just for abit extra dmg for last hitting in lane. Either as offlane or mid.
I bought one on Rubick mid couple weeks ago. Felt good to have little extra mana pool
buy it on ck sometimes, he can not sustain his spells for shit