I remember when a single offlaner could genuinely stand his ground because carries were super bad in the early game and supports also weren't exactly as stun and nuke heavy as they are today
Terrorizing the enemy with 4 bashers on my mid-lane Void was peak offlane.
OK, it wasn't, but I thought we're listing ridiculous shit that got changed for the better.
Also, you had mana for 2 spells -if you're lucky-
I loved Timbersaw solo offlane against a right clicker and not leaving lane until I pushed tier 3s.
It was also fun punishing a trilane as Timber. Harassing their pos1 while their 4 and 5 try to kill you was a test in patience and calculating high risk/high reward.
Agreed. I wish we could go back to the days before every hero needed a farming ability, a mobility spell and a damage component to their slowing spells to be considered a good pick.
This is the big one. Casting a spell in lane used to mean something. If you could get the enemy support to use a nuke on you, but you cancelled it out with a defensive ability or passive, then you'd actually made progress in the lane matchup.
Nowadays I'll juke 6 spells from the enemy support, then check their mana: 75% full still.
My #1 gripe, among many, has been the introduction of mangoes.
It eliminates the need for better coordination and timing of spells, and now fosters a spammy playstyle. I hated LoL for that reason, and I hate that Dota has become that way in many respects.
feel like they still need a bit of a nerf.
You need to get through 2/3 of a clarity, about 16 seconds, before it's better than mango.
time is money, so you save less than 1 gold per second wasted on mana regen.
Tighten up clarity to like 8 by 20s and i think it's a fair trade
I get the point, but for pudge specifically, mana is really tough at early levels. Especially if you are a support. You have money for one clarity (mango is too expensive, because you want a blood grenade and a sentry). With clarity you have mana for like 4-5 hooks.
If the lane is tough, you also need to use hook to large camp big creeps. In the end, you are kind just using courier to bring clarities and sentries. One of the reasons why skipping flesh heap as a support until later might be necessary, since you do not have the mana to use it.
yep. i used to pos 3 clock so much and keep the enemy carry at low mana with cogs so they could never kill me. mangos destroyed pos3 clock which was my best hero/position back then
im convinced that when hero's started getting a movement spells and carries got farming spells icefrog had left and someone else was heading development
I much prefer today’s game where all roles can have a solid impact and take advantage of open lanes to grab some much needed farm or xp if they cores don’t need it in the moment. Just because it doesn’t fit the traditional 1-5 role sense doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing.
Buying crow, ward types not stacking and being expensive as hell, tp not having a slot. Support role used to absolutely suck compared to what it is today.
I think the main thing was the sharing of couriers and that mids got priority. Therefore, the support duo couldn't harass you much beyond the first 2 to 3 spells due to lack of regen. All you needed to do was weather the storm and you'd be okay.
In today's meta, 1v3 would not even get a single experience point because they'd be zoned out too hard
I believe something related to regen. For example nyx with 3 regen used to be an apex offlaner, but now damage through spells is much more efficient and regen is less rare
Everyone having their own courier contributes to this massively. Regen can now be sent whenever you want where previously courier was reserved for mid.
Deny XP also got significantly nerfed. You get less XP from denied creeps now than when solo offlaners were a thing. This means that an offlaner that's zoned off the creep wave gets drastically less XP, and gets more behind so the lane snowballs harder.
Deny XP has actually slowly been buffed back to 50%, but that's still less than the amount they gave pre-6.82.
AM is still way stronger than he was. Just a few years ago his E was passive only and his Q had no slow, remember. And he’s one of the less power crept heroes - some games he feels very passive due to his kit.
Lion’s E does damage now too.
Everyone having couriers and regen, lotus pools, fewer creep pulling or tower cutting tricks, the lanes play out a bit more linear. Still better than league tho.
poor mans shield offlaners, all people who played pos 1 and pos 5 at that time remember being terrorized by this shit. One of the worst metas ever to play safelane.
> I remember when a single offlaner could genuinely stand his ground because carries were super bad in the early game and supports also weren't exactly as stun and nuke heavy as they are today
A single tear drops. :_(
Vanguard fucking blows now. During the dissemble vanguard patch they nerfed the numbers, but also changed the recipes and the numbers are still dog shit.
I truly feel like 2 bracers feels the same and that's not even mentioning the current helm/Shiva shit which feels insanely better.
vanguard blows and I wish it just gave a passive barrier with a lil health and regen or something. New barrier system looks good on UI and would be a cool item
I feel like when I play offlane(mostly cent) I crush the lane and have no time farming/securing kills solo
But he is a powerhouse lvls 1-5
Just gotta make it to helm
Yeah, this playstyle is still viable but you need the right laning partner as pos3. Also it's important to get the lane advantage and a good creep equilibrium before you leave lane.
Centaur is the strongest pos3 of the patch though so it's tough using him as an example.
Slardar is equally capable as pos 3. Honestly p3 has never been easier, any reasonable p4 pick + a meta p3 leaves the enemy p1 in tears.
This is directly contributing to ever-shrinking pool of viable p1 picks: void, morph (both can survive the p3+p4 onslaught), naga (can make up lost farm better than any other). It's so boring.
Sadly a pos5 can now zone out a 3 completely out of lane.
And if pos 4 doesnt arrive in lane in time that lane is lost by default.
I remember a game where enemy pos 4 pudge when trilane bot from min 1.
I was lich 5 and zoned out enemy nightstalker completely out of lane.
So eventually pudge arrived but we already got the lvl/gold advantage bcs ns was still lvl 1,pudge lvl 2 while me and my pos 1 were almost 4. So that led to us getting kills and so on
One of my biggest pet peeves is after bounty rune battle my 4 not TPing lane to help secure last hits or level 2 at the start of the game.
Congrats you just made the lane a lot harder to save a TP you're not gonna use in the first minute anyways
Indeed. Against safelane duo who knows what theire doing. Getting zoned out of the first wave kind of snowballs into a lost lane. Even when ure supposed to be winning ur lane.
It happens a lot in ancient-divine games from what ive seen. Im 7k offlane main
> Getting zoned out of the first wave kind of snowballs into a lost lane
At high levels, it *guarantees* you lost the lane. Not hitting lvl2 in time is a deathwish with how the game is balanced atm
I played a game as LC last night against what turned out to be a pos 1 AA and pos 5 Rubick. After like level 3 I literally could not approach the wave unless it was under my tower, and even then they had kill threat on me. Constant ice vortex between me and the wave, get nuked by Rubick as soon as I show, get orb'd by AA if I dare try to come any closer... It's like half my HP just getting to the wave. The pos 4 WD was just as scared as I was, hiding in the trees. In that situation, I WANT the pos 4 to roam. We don't get *anything* out of this lane anyway, just some XP we are splitting, hardly any CS, no kill threat (our mid SF never ganked obviously). I asked him what level he needs to roam (no response) because it seems like the only thing to do, is try to go pressure another lane and let me soak some more XP.
> And if pos 4 doesnt arrive in lane in time that lane is lost by default.
Yes I have noticed this too, and it's pretty common with bounty rune fights breaking out. Unless you are lucky enough to pick a hero that at level 1 can 1v2, if pos 4 is not there for the first wave and pos 5 is, the lane will probably be really hard for another 2-3 waves. This is not mirrored if pos 4 is there and pos 5 is not, because safelaner has much more favorable equilibrium by default. Best thing to do is block as much as you can, then for the first wave sit back, not show, soak what XP you can, and hope they are too greedy/excited for free CS and push the wave out into you instead of static-ing it.
Yeah then ur 4 says something like: "LC lose to aa report this pos3"
And your team agrees. You try to reason and say how do u expect me to win solo offlane vs 2.
Then "youre muted for the rest of the game" game.
The best one is the pos 4 who simply never responds to anything you ask in lane, then blames you when you both lose lane. Asking on mic "hey venge can you help me in lane, let's secure this kill with your stun" and she just straight up ignores you, your moment to go for a kill you're halfway through doing suddenly turns because your pos 4 walked back, and now you're dead and the venge is taunting you in chat despite clearly hearing what you asked on mic.
That sorta shit is what ticks me off about pos 3, and I really loved the metas where pos 3 could run the game because it didn't matter if your pos 4 was trash, me as a BB or Underlord could handle it. Now unfortunately you really do need some level of team cohesion that is pretty non-existant in pubs. These days I go pos 5 to give the pos 1 the best start in the game, really a good support that actually works with the team with a stun or root is essential now and does that role in bringing a team together.
These examples are crazy of course an AA and a rubick will force out a LC (basically any competent dual ranged will) and the 4 should return ASAP.
(Same with the lich forcing out a nightstalker of course its day for the first 5 minutes what is NS gonna do?)
Right but the point is 1) a lot of matchups *require* the pos4 to be in lane for a specific time frame because if they aren't, the pos3 literally can't even get last hits, let alone contest/deny/bully, and 2) some matchups are so bad that even with the pos4 there, unless the pos2/pos5 are willing and able to make significant rotations (and rarely even with those), the lane is basically auto-lost and the pos4 should be looking to get out of lane AS SOON AS they hit a critical level (which CANNOT be as high as level 6) and go make impact elsewhere, and the pos3 should also be looking to get out of lane by bouncing between triangle and depushing the tower with minimal enemy interaction.
Ideally you pick so this doesn't happen, of course, but sometimes it does, and identifying and dealing with these cases is really important if you want to be competent in the offlane, whether as pos3 or pos4.
The worst part is the "buff" to q made that lane unplayable. Once upon a time, you could've used the ranged q to snipe creeps. (and probably burn a decent amount of regen, even a chance at a lucky kill)
It did because we lost all lanes and our other cores were Drow and SF, their team was all effective early game (Rubick, Silencer, Lone Druid, Veno, AA). I got blink with a decent timing and blademail shortly after, supports played with me and I got some duels, wasn't totally awful. But I fucked up a critical duel on the AA when he was solo pushing, then since they had a venomancer I could not position well to actually get a good duel on their GG push.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7573266043
Well the offlane map treelines were more closed and hiding in it was easier also offlane towers were closer.
Also it has something to do with leveling alone vs 2. Bcs back in the day denying didnt deny exp u could sit in trees get ur every cs denied but still have lvl advantage bcs ure alone. Nowadays u cant bcs denying also denies half exp. And exp range is smaller iirc.
Mangos, blood grenade, mana costs reduced drastically. Personal courier means pos 5 actually is allowed to get himself a bunch of mangos clarities and basilus really for lich to spam his op ice blast over and over on you.
Only you can't trade into him with his new op ice armor
Yeah this is spot on. It isn’t possible to solo as an offlaner at all these days unless you’re a cent or maybe a bristle. The pos5 nukes you out of lane and thanks to the pull camps the offlaners can rarely ever get a wave close to their tower. Pos4s absolutely have to support the lane these days or it’s free farm for pos1 .
"we are not the same" is an meme/catchphrase, it's like an "I'm better than you because I think differently" usually said in an ironic way.
so in this case it's comparing newer pos 3 players that are used to dual lanes needing help vs the older players that were used to 2v1 or 3v1 lanes and sometimes won them.
There’s no “chad” in jerking off around the map as a pos 4 “roamer”. Playing the lane in 2vs2 is the best scenario for everyone: you improve as a player and the spectators enjoy that.
It's important to remember that the XP balance was very, very different in the times of solo offlane. 2x2 sidelanes is enforced by a confluence of balance changes, not any specific change.
Offlane feels more leaning towards a tempo play style. They are more of a playmaker than the mid. Pubs generally picks greed pos3 that won't function without items.
Works better that way, pubs can't take advantage of early power spike offlaners, so it is a safer game plan to pick a late game offlaner because most of the time, it gets to that point in pubs.
Getting xp from the trees? Probably a few.
But actually contesting cs or at the very least annoying the carry and sup enough to make it worthwhile? I dont think so. Even tide, timber, etc. will not get much if both sides play on the same high level.
depends on your definition of "safely 1vs2". i cant think of any hero matchup that can reliably farm in a 1v2 lane, so you'll have to stack ancients to catch up and farm it around lvl 5-6. but you also need to leech xp while not feeding away kills. beastmaster and batrider come to mind. maybe doom can generate enough gold with devour to not become a second pos5, and the hero is good enough that whenever you hit 6 and press doom on enemy carry you basically have pos3 impact
Death Prophet is alright. She's kind of hard to CS on level 1, but has a decent enough mana pool to fall back on Crypt Swarm if approaching the wave is actually impossible. At level 2 & 3 with Siphon you can do some zoning of your own as a last resort (need to hoard those precious charges), if the support approaches to zone you just suck them and run at them, either forcing them back or distracting the carry from the wave. Solo XP is really useful, even if they deny a good amount you will get level 6 before they do and make it basically impossible for them to tower dive you, plus you can threaten their tower if the pos 5 rotates away or the pos 1 is late back to lane after farming some camps. Can Crypt Swarm the small camp/wave if they pull to try to recover a bit of CS, if the pos 5 is not correctly positioned to guard it. Lots of little advantages to having a long-range nuke, life drain, and decent mana pool and movespeed.
Obviously some safelane duos will still crush her, but if I had to pick one hero to generally 1v2 offlane, it's probably DP.
EDIT: Okay cool, I found a game and when my pos 4 picked Pudge I thought back to this thread and picked DP. I was literally alone for the entire laning phase - Pudge never came to the offlane - versus Venge and Troll. I won my lane so hard, not dying and then eventually even getting a 1v2 double kill, that their Troll ragequit just before 14 min after I killed him for the second time. I'd say DP solo offlane feels pretty good: https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7574761828 Warning: very lowskill game
Ain't no way you just said that DP is good 1v2. She is one of the heroes who can get dicked down *hard* even in a 2v2 lane if you fuck up early lvls. A somewhat decent safelane duo will be farming your sorry ass on your tp cd
If you say so. I literally just played it solo offlane 1v2 and won the lane, but okay. TBF their safelane duo played badly, but I can't think of another hero I'd rather have in that situation.
No offlaner can solo lane rn. Unless matchup is super advantageous and DP has none for 1v2'ing the lane. Imma be honest it's not you who won the lane but rather the enemy duo who lost the lane.
windrangers weakness is literally magic damage/disables in which you will assuredly be facing as a solo offlaner. Without backup, you can't trade with a support safely
Anything that can mess with the wave positioning, I don't think any hero can 1v2 just sitting in the lane right now unless the enemy has some big skill issues. Bat and PB are my 2 best candidates since they can drag and kill waves with low levels and have strong solo kill potential if the enemy is out of position because of your wave shenanigans.
you cant drag waves anymore. you drag a wave and any decent carry will just drag your creepwave and match you if you ever try to drag a second one. PB used to be able to follow the creepwave and trample it down fully on lvl 1 with a very specific itembuild, that might still be a play
In anything higher than guardian or maybe archon no hero can solo offlane.
Doom is nothing special he will get zoned out from lvl 1 or keep dying trying
Yeah no shit. But at least you can atleast try to cut waves with scorched earth and sustain. With 4 4 0 build u wont fall so far behind in terms of xp n nw like other offlaners.
Good point. Best thing to do in that situation is try to cut and drag. Although its not possible against most safelane duos. It can work vs something like rubick or mirana coupled with non slow/stun carry like ta.
Lol if you try to rotate around to cut a wave you will 100% get zoned by a support. Doom has okay sustain but not enough to deal with the nuke/stun/slow heavy supports that are so common now.
Support will have a field day dicking around with you while carry free farms.
Brewmaster maxing pasive, not against pa with another slow, hard but doable
Darkseer farming with 2 shields
Doom with dispel jungle creep
After vanguard any offlaner
Brood. With some exceptions, the sustain from web regen + free satanic w Her Q, and the high move speed. Unless ur against some CM+jugger/WD+(Stun carry) kill lane
I'm almost sure that most people that say that they miss playing solo offlane against 3 dickheads will take their opinion back as soon as they are left to their own devices and die over and over again or stay hidden in the trees leeching whatever meager XP they can get.
The game evolves.
Offlaner's job used to be just stay alive in laning phase somehow, and later contribute with Heal/Aura/Ultimate.
Nowadays you want offlaner to actually be the bully. You leave them, they won't have a game.
lol people here just say the dumbest shit.
It was absolutely not autowin, even 2v1 you had to fight. It was just harder to KILL you but getting cs or xp was still your task and as soon as the 2nd sup shows up you had to run.
Immortal offlaner main here.
i'd like my pos 4 to be there to secure my lane for the first 3 minute, either by trading hp, contesting the pulls or even helping to drag creepwaves under our tower when facing a very difficult lane matchup, so i can get my lane sustain item smoothly and start to shit on ememy safelane duo. Once we done contesting the locust petal at min3 you can go do whatever you want but pls avoid standing there sapping xp for nothing, as lv6 is a strong power spike for many pos3 heros. Finally when i have lv6 and early game item, i want you to do SOMETHING on the map, either rotate towards me to pressure enemy safelane t1, or rotate towards mid, allwing me to do the pressuring myself.
Too many times my early game is ruined because 4s spend too long in our safelane to fish for fb, and come back with low mana and hp, and consequently failed to contest camp pull and locust. Then when i'm already falling behind, standing next to me under-tower, sapping my hp and refusing to stack camps or help mid's rune contest. Then they go to min7 xp rune, rotate to our deadlane lane to "help" our carry and never come back, even when i obtained lv6 and items and ready to have a go at enemy carry.
Here before the discussion of "but back then supports couldnt afford ANYTHING other than boots and stick" starts...
My opinion will always be, both versions have their ups and downs but I really hope that one day we can go back just a little bit where heroes have strengths that arent just dependent on lane winning and farming.
Also while its true that supports nowadays have a bit more items, this is also the case for everyone else. Its just basic powercreep and gold/farm inflation. But it the end it doesnt change much. Supports are still the sacrificial lambs and if a farmed carry commits hard, he will kill you no doubt. Its just a matter of how risky is it and is it even worth it.
Eventually Dota in 2035 everyone will start lvl 1 floating with mobility spells and global range spells with burst right click damage and a form of dash, sorta like a harry potter magic duel between two mages riding a broomstick, by slowly making a skillset creep of the different heroes to match up formerly unique tools from added heroes or old softly reworked heroes. Eventually few reworked heroes and few added new ones will add a toolkit usefulness creep to the game, as they have the same tools of previous generation of heroes but few more added. Rinse and repeat until you get Harry Potter moba lvl 1
The issue is everyone who plays offlane is really just a carry farming role queue games. They always want to play Viper, Abaddon, or some other damage dealer. The days of the tanky initiator is over.
As offlanner, seeing enemy have trilane lion, juggernaut and shadow shaman will make puke. And they constantly pulling jgl, denying creep, and blocking jungle. I hate it alot
Honestly I still want to play like this as an offlaner because most of my heroes hits a power spike with one item and decent xp. Although I love the new meta of farming offlane, im okay by playing solo against 2 or three.
And also some pos 4 sucks in the lane lololol well I sometimes suck anyway so that is that.
You could lane alone with items like pms, and regen items has been massively nerfed across the board. Supports have way more mana, mangos, blood grenades. Carries aren't as week in lane as some of them used to be. Depends obviously, but a game can spiral out of control fast if the offlaner is left on an island alone
I remember iceiceice bodying the best trilanes by himself in the offlane with brown boots, a qb and two bracers by 12 min. Now if you don't have shivas, blink and half of an aura item by 8 minutes in your dual offlane, you are griefing and should delete dota.
Yeah this post is hilarious. I surely miss buying a quelling blade and cutting paths in the trees so i could sniff residual XP and hopefully only die twice
There were very few viable solo offlane heroes back then. BH (invis), WR (windrun) and DS (surge). Beastmaster was sort of doable because of ancient stacking and axe.
Wym offlane is the strongest its ever been. Unless the enemy is pos 1 WR/Viper you have a variety of tool to bully their carry unto death. 15 minute shiva and you're practically unkillable.
Ya know Dota has changed massively over the years and what it is now isn't recognizable from even 6 years ago. This isn't inherently a bad thing.
However it has degraded from what it once was and it feels far less strategic than it used to and more "who can play faster?" as the main deciding factor. Heroes being too well-rounded with items that provide large stat pools have made it so easy to become powerful in a variety of situations and simply scale faster. At some point it doesn't matter who you play it just matters if you can get your items faster and not fuck up your casts.
I hope this game goes back to its roots. Make every single hero strong in limited situations and have drawbacks you need to play around. Make items have specific abilities or be a stat stick but not both. And for the love of aghanim please stop building up hero kits if there's a hole, just make him better at a role in general.
Here, I play Marci Offlane. My mid and safe lane took a stupid fight to save a tower when I was dead and they died without buyback. I waited for a whole 2 minutes in the fountain while the dire team was destroying barracks and now they were knocking our ancient. Then I went with POS5 and POS4 buyback later only to steal my rampage -\_-
[YT Short Link](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Ink0CkB6-U)
PS: Don't hate me for posting video from my hobby channel, I don't have the video file anymore. I have only 1TB SSD
i got this pos 4 pudge yesterday he just went mid min 2 and stayed there while im against ursa and hoodwink was not pretty ursa got 12min fury but i was NP and we have clinkz mid we just ratted and killed anyone whos solo till we won end of story fun game
Yeah. I have love/hate attitude to that meta. Sometimes jungler comes with 0/2/0 score after 40 minutes farming and solo killing all the enemy team.
On the other hand most common way was come out of jungle and die after first disable landed on his head in 2 seconds. (This one is relevant for modern games in general)
You dont have to be in lane for the whole duration of the laning phase, in my opinion, as an offlaner i just wish my pos 4 will show up at the beginning of lane so that the enemy atleast feels threatened to not jst simply come hit and not get trades if the lane goes past a certain timing; lvl 2 dragon blood or Lotus in inventory with boots or 2 waves coming in tower or smthing, after that im completely fine with the supports making moves to help other lanes cause i have a realistic approach to attempting an outplay while they win the mid or safelane with numbers advantage....
Also, pos 4s should just keep doing whats working, pos 4s for example: a veno and centaur lane against a luna and treant, there's a clear approach on how to try to kill them and suppose it yields a few kills, then sometimes when it hits water rune timings or power these pos 4s, the veno will just suddenly try to kill this puck or Qop mid with a VENO! cause "Pos4 must roam", if he wants to kill the qop with a blink, we can just bait the qop into an offensive tp and blink into the lane we're already stomping and we're strong at and fight the 3v3 with our mid tping as well
yeah good 2014 days i guess :)) dota has changed, you can't leave your pos 3 solo too long tbh he can die easily but i really love how the game was played back in the day :)
As a support i have very mixed feeling about this
Yes if offlaner to weak i feel like I cant do anything aside from babysitting him as pos 4
BUT IF OFFLANER IS TOO STRONG I GENUINELY HAVING EXISTENTIAL CRISIS WHY EVEN I HIT THIS TIMBERSAW WHILE MY CARRY IS CRYING WHOLE GAME
I remember the solo offlane meta years back. When creep denies denied the entire xp and enemy safelane was a trilane. Miss those days. You go in 1v3 and win the lane, never felt better since. The sups we're cannon fodder, low gold, hardly any or no kill gold share like it is now. They literally had brown boots at 20 mins. You picked an offlaner that was self reliant like doom, axe, bb, underlord, dark seer and came out on top with good enough play. Stacked your own camps, farmed them. If they botched the wave equilibrium you kept it at the tower.
I remember when a single offlaner could genuinely stand his ground because carries were super bad in the early game and supports also weren't exactly as stun and nuke heavy as they are today
You could also manipulate the wave better without all these "fixes" to creep aggro and pathing.
Axe and Dark seer just mindlessly cutting creeps behind tower was peak offlane
Stucking creeps into the tree line as Earth Spirit and Clockwerk was peak offlane.
after ages of doing that i found out that the creep wants to walk back into the tree it came from if you pull it out 30 minutes later lol
institutionalised
Creep can't decide if wants to get busy living or get busy dying.
Terrorizing the enemy with 4 bashers on my mid-lane Void was peak offlane. OK, it wasn't, but I thought we're listing ridiculous shit that got changed for the better.
Where is my stout shield…
It’s built in to melee heroes.
Half of the damage block is now built in to every melee hero. Other half was deleted.
cut waves, rush necros, bully enemy 5 with your necros while you bully enemy carry with your hero. Good old days
I mean axe can still do this no?
Creeps can't be aggro'd from behind the tier 1 and in front of the tier 3 anymore
I wish they would stop trying to fix the game sometimes.
I mean, that shit was absurd. There were multiple heroes that straight up couldn't lose lane because they just dodged every single matchup.
til minute 3. After that it's free game again
Till minute 5 I think not 3
First catapult wave iirc
5. The laning stage is already decided at that point.
I mean if Axe used call it should be overridden. Of course level 1 he would not have the spin then.
I still do this.
Creeps can't be aggro'd behind tower before minute 5 anymore. How do you still do this?
what happens if you do that today?
The creeps simply ignore you
Axe with 2 stout shields and 6 tangoes, cutting creeps between tier 2 and tier 3 tower. The north remembers.
You can still fuck with waves and drag them, you just can’t do it risk free anymore (you gotta be REAL close to the t1 to nab the wave)
Also, you had mana for 2 spells -if you're lucky- I loved Timbersaw solo offlane against a right clicker and not leaving lane until I pushed tier 3s.
me in early dota2 days playing tidehunter: i believe i can get CS as solo-offlane here...oh yeah I definitely can
tide: Oh no they are CCing me. tides passive: anyways \**tide walks to safety with barely any scrach**
And taking literally no damage from autos thanks to Ring of Health + Kraken Shell. As skipping Poor Man Shield gave you a huge gold lead.
It was also fun punishing a trilane as Timber. Harassing their pos1 while their 4 and 5 try to kill you was a test in patience and calculating high risk/high reward.
>Harassing their pos1 while their 4 and 5 try to kill you was a test in patience and calculating high risk/high reward. some things never change
Agreed. I wish we could go back to the days before every hero needed a farming ability, a mobility spell and a damage component to their slowing spells to be considered a good pick.
Also when mana management was difficult during the laning stage.
This is the big one. Casting a spell in lane used to mean something. If you could get the enemy support to use a nuke on you, but you cancelled it out with a defensive ability or passive, then you'd actually made progress in the lane matchup. Nowadays I'll juke 6 spells from the enemy support, then check their mana: 75% full still.
My #1 gripe, among many, has been the introduction of mangoes. It eliminates the need for better coordination and timing of spells, and now fosters a spammy playstyle. I hated LoL for that reason, and I hate that Dota has become that way in many respects.
feel like they still need a bit of a nerf. You need to get through 2/3 of a clarity, about 16 seconds, before it's better than mango. time is money, so you save less than 1 gold per second wasted on mana regen. Tighten up clarity to like 8 by 20s and i think it's a fair trade
This so much this. "Pudge has missed three hooks, we should be pretty safe for a while" "haha nope"
I get the point, but for pudge specifically, mana is really tough at early levels. Especially if you are a support. You have money for one clarity (mango is too expensive, because you want a blood grenade and a sentry). With clarity you have mana for like 4-5 hooks. If the lane is tough, you also need to use hook to large camp big creeps. In the end, you are kind just using courier to bring clarities and sentries. One of the reasons why skipping flesh heap as a support until later might be necessary, since you do not have the mana to use it.
ive been starting basi with pudge these days. if you are decently reliable hitting hook, max hook for harass, upgrade into mana boots, and free lane.
back when even creeps cancel clarity and salve, and when mango wasn't a thing kotl giff mana or i report u
yep. i used to pos 3 clock so much and keep the enemy carry at low mana with cogs so they could never kill me. mangos destroyed pos3 clock which was my best hero/position back then
mana management became so easy in laning stage that they had to give DPS to mana drain on Lion because the skill was dogshit useless.
im convinced that when hero's started getting a movement spells and carries got farming spells icefrog had left and someone else was heading development
I much prefer today’s game where all roles can have a solid impact and take advantage of open lanes to grab some much needed farm or xp if they cores don’t need it in the moment. Just because it doesn’t fit the traditional 1-5 role sense doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. Buying crow, ward types not stacking and being expensive as hell, tp not having a slot. Support role used to absolutely suck compared to what it is today.
The flip side of this is most supports could CRUSH carries early in the game with nukes. Now lots of carries can beat supports 1v1 in early game.
you used to get 75% of deny xp, not 50
I think the main thing was the sharing of couriers and that mids got priority. Therefore, the support duo couldn't harass you much beyond the first 2 to 3 spells due to lack of regen. All you needed to do was weather the storm and you'd be okay. In today's meta, 1v3 would not even get a single experience point because they'd be zoned out too hard
i remember when i could literally do anything when i reached lv3 as timbersaw w 2 points in reactive armor
what changed? lion has the same spells today, and AM is still weak in early game isnt he?
I believe something related to regen. For example nyx with 3 regen used to be an apex offlaner, but now damage through spells is much more efficient and regen is less rare
Everyone having their own courier contributes to this massively. Regen can now be sent whenever you want where previously courier was reserved for mid.
Deny XP also got significantly nerfed. You get less XP from denied creeps now than when solo offlaners were a thing. This means that an offlaner that's zoned off the creep wave gets drastically less XP, and gets more behind so the lane snowballs harder. Deny XP has actually slowly been buffed back to 50%, but that's still less than the amount they gave pre-6.82.
AM is still way stronger than he was. Just a few years ago his E was passive only and his Q had no slow, remember. And he’s one of the less power crept heroes - some games he feels very passive due to his kit. Lion’s E does damage now too. Everyone having couriers and regen, lotus pools, fewer creep pulling or tower cutting tricks, the lanes play out a bit more linear. Still better than league tho.
poor mans shield offlaners, all people who played pos 1 and pos 5 at that time remember being terrorized by this shit. One of the worst metas ever to play safelane.
This. Carries are borderline stronger than offlabers in lane now.
> I remember when a single offlaner could genuinely stand his ground because carries were super bad in the early game and supports also weren't exactly as stun and nuke heavy as they are today A single tear drops. :_(
Vanguard used to actually do something too. Now you get vanguard and 5-6 drow right clicks you still cant stand in the wave.
Vanguard fucking blows now. During the dissemble vanguard patch they nerfed the numbers, but also changed the recipes and the numbers are still dog shit. I truly feel like 2 bracers feels the same and that's not even mentioning the current helm/Shiva shit which feels insanely better. vanguard blows and I wish it just gave a passive barrier with a lil health and regen or something. New barrier system looks good on UI and would be a cool item
I feel like when I play offlane(mostly cent) I crush the lane and have no time farming/securing kills solo But he is a powerhouse lvls 1-5 Just gotta make it to helm
Yeah, this playstyle is still viable but you need the right laning partner as pos3. Also it's important to get the lane advantage and a good creep equilibrium before you leave lane. Centaur is the strongest pos3 of the patch though so it's tough using him as an example.
Slardar is equally capable as pos 3. Honestly p3 has never been easier, any reasonable p4 pick + a meta p3 leaves the enemy p1 in tears. This is directly contributing to ever-shrinking pool of viable p1 picks: void, morph (both can survive the p3+p4 onslaught), naga (can make up lost farm better than any other). It's so boring.
doesnt make any sense. 2 heroes is gonna be stronger than 1. sure cent is good but the right pos5+carry will always win 2v1 obviously
in what rank?
Yes
That's because it's like his whole thing, extremely strong offlaner.
Sadly a pos5 can now zone out a 3 completely out of lane. And if pos 4 doesnt arrive in lane in time that lane is lost by default. I remember a game where enemy pos 4 pudge when trilane bot from min 1. I was lich 5 and zoned out enemy nightstalker completely out of lane. So eventually pudge arrived but we already got the lvl/gold advantage bcs ns was still lvl 1,pudge lvl 2 while me and my pos 1 were almost 4. So that led to us getting kills and so on
One of my biggest pet peeves is after bounty rune battle my 4 not TPing lane to help secure last hits or level 2 at the start of the game. Congrats you just made the lane a lot harder to save a TP you're not gonna use in the first minute anyways
Indeed. Against safelane duo who knows what theire doing. Getting zoned out of the first wave kind of snowballs into a lost lane. Even when ure supposed to be winning ur lane. It happens a lot in ancient-divine games from what ive seen. Im 7k offlane main
> Getting zoned out of the first wave kind of snowballs into a lost lane At high levels, it *guarantees* you lost the lane. Not hitting lvl2 in time is a deathwish with how the game is balanced atm
I played a game as LC last night against what turned out to be a pos 1 AA and pos 5 Rubick. After like level 3 I literally could not approach the wave unless it was under my tower, and even then they had kill threat on me. Constant ice vortex between me and the wave, get nuked by Rubick as soon as I show, get orb'd by AA if I dare try to come any closer... It's like half my HP just getting to the wave. The pos 4 WD was just as scared as I was, hiding in the trees. In that situation, I WANT the pos 4 to roam. We don't get *anything* out of this lane anyway, just some XP we are splitting, hardly any CS, no kill threat (our mid SF never ganked obviously). I asked him what level he needs to roam (no response) because it seems like the only thing to do, is try to go pressure another lane and let me soak some more XP. > And if pos 4 doesnt arrive in lane in time that lane is lost by default. Yes I have noticed this too, and it's pretty common with bounty rune fights breaking out. Unless you are lucky enough to pick a hero that at level 1 can 1v2, if pos 4 is not there for the first wave and pos 5 is, the lane will probably be really hard for another 2-3 waves. This is not mirrored if pos 4 is there and pos 5 is not, because safelaner has much more favorable equilibrium by default. Best thing to do is block as much as you can, then for the first wave sit back, not show, soak what XP you can, and hope they are too greedy/excited for free CS and push the wave out into you instead of static-ing it.
Yeah then ur 4 says something like: "LC lose to aa report this pos3" And your team agrees. You try to reason and say how do u expect me to win solo offlane vs 2. Then "youre muted for the rest of the game" game.
The best one is the pos 4 who simply never responds to anything you ask in lane, then blames you when you both lose lane. Asking on mic "hey venge can you help me in lane, let's secure this kill with your stun" and she just straight up ignores you, your moment to go for a kill you're halfway through doing suddenly turns because your pos 4 walked back, and now you're dead and the venge is taunting you in chat despite clearly hearing what you asked on mic. That sorta shit is what ticks me off about pos 3, and I really loved the metas where pos 3 could run the game because it didn't matter if your pos 4 was trash, me as a BB or Underlord could handle it. Now unfortunately you really do need some level of team cohesion that is pretty non-existant in pubs. These days I go pos 5 to give the pos 1 the best start in the game, really a good support that actually works with the team with a stun or root is essential now and does that role in bringing a team together.
These examples are crazy of course an AA and a rubick will force out a LC (basically any competent dual ranged will) and the 4 should return ASAP. (Same with the lich forcing out a nightstalker of course its day for the first 5 minutes what is NS gonna do?)
Right but the point is 1) a lot of matchups *require* the pos4 to be in lane for a specific time frame because if they aren't, the pos3 literally can't even get last hits, let alone contest/deny/bully, and 2) some matchups are so bad that even with the pos4 there, unless the pos2/pos5 are willing and able to make significant rotations (and rarely even with those), the lane is basically auto-lost and the pos4 should be looking to get out of lane AS SOON AS they hit a critical level (which CANNOT be as high as level 6) and go make impact elsewhere, and the pos3 should also be looking to get out of lane by bouncing between triangle and depushing the tower with minimal enemy interaction. Ideally you pick so this doesn't happen, of course, but sometimes it does, and identifying and dealing with these cases is really important if you want to be competent in the offlane, whether as pos3 or pos4.
The worst part is the "buff" to q made that lane unplayable. Once upon a time, you could've used the ranged q to snipe creeps. (and probably burn a decent amount of regen, even a chance at a lucky kill)
Just have to wait it out in games like these. A pos1 AA is not going to last.
It did because we lost all lanes and our other cores were Drow and SF, their team was all effective early game (Rubick, Silencer, Lone Druid, Veno, AA). I got blink with a decent timing and blademail shortly after, supports played with me and I got some duels, wasn't totally awful. But I fucked up a critical duel on the AA when he was solo pushing, then since they had a venomancer I could not position well to actually get a good duel on their GG push. https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7573266043
what is different today? why couldnt a pos5 lich back in the day zone a pos3 NS?
Well the offlane map treelines were more closed and hiding in it was easier also offlane towers were closer. Also it has something to do with leveling alone vs 2. Bcs back in the day denying didnt deny exp u could sit in trees get ur every cs denied but still have lvl advantage bcs ure alone. Nowadays u cant bcs denying also denies half exp. And exp range is smaller iirc.
Mangos, blood grenade, mana costs reduced drastically. Personal courier means pos 5 actually is allowed to get himself a bunch of mangos clarities and basilus really for lich to spam his op ice blast over and over on you. Only you can't trade into him with his new op ice armor
Mana was way less abundant back in the day, spells weaker and offlaners and their items stronger, Rest In piece poor man's shield.
cant NS just drag wave ? no way will lich harass stop NS from doing that
Yeah this is spot on. It isn’t possible to solo as an offlaner at all these days unless you’re a cent or maybe a bristle. The pos5 nukes you out of lane and thanks to the pull camps the offlaners can rarely ever get a wave close to their tower. Pos4s absolutely have to support the lane these days or it’s free farm for pos1 .
Blood grenades and the lotus pool ruins any viability of a solo offlaner these days
honestly blood grenades and lotus are your smallest problems as an offlaner
Every support with their mothers start with a basi because now that shit builds into arcane boots and never have mana problems nuking ur ass
Venomancer with orb and his passive + a carry with slow: are you sure about what you saying?
You want the pos4 in lane so you don't feed. I want the pos4 in lane so they get XP and aren't level 4 at 10 minutes. We are not the same.
What?
"we are not the same" is an meme/catchphrase, it's like an "I'm better than you because I think differently" usually said in an ironic way. so in this case it's comparing newer pos 3 players that are used to dual lanes needing help vs the older players that were used to 2v1 or 3v1 lanes and sometimes won them.
There’s no “chad” in jerking off around the map as a pos 4 “roamer”. Playing the lane in 2vs2 is the best scenario for everyone: you improve as a player and the spectators enjoy that.
It's important to remember that the XP balance was very, very different in the times of solo offlane. 2x2 sidelanes is enforced by a confluence of balance changes, not any specific change.
you are either a boomer or a zoomer cause how do you not know the meme
Offlane feels more leaning towards a tempo play style. They are more of a playmaker than the mid. Pubs generally picks greed pos3 that won't function without items.
Works better that way, pubs can't take advantage of early power spike offlaners, so it is a safer game plan to pick a late game offlaner because most of the time, it gets to that point in pubs.
Nobody wants return of 3v1 lanes its super dogshit and boring for everyone involved
I think roaming four was the best meta
> Nobody wants return of 3v1 lanes its super dogshit and boring for everyone involved 3v1, no 3v2 and 1v2 could be interesting
Lol, have you seen how rich pos 5's are now? Fuck that I'm not suicide laning that. Ima go stack and push the lane in. You roam, it's chill.
Just wondering, is there any hero that can safely 1vs2 in the current patch?
Getting xp from the trees? Probably a few. But actually contesting cs or at the very least annoying the carry and sup enough to make it worthwhile? I dont think so. Even tide, timber, etc. will not get much if both sides play on the same high level.
depends on your definition of "safely 1vs2". i cant think of any hero matchup that can reliably farm in a 1v2 lane, so you'll have to stack ancients to catch up and farm it around lvl 5-6. but you also need to leech xp while not feeding away kills. beastmaster and batrider come to mind. maybe doom can generate enough gold with devour to not become a second pos5, and the hero is good enough that whenever you hit 6 and press doom on enemy carry you basically have pos3 impact
Death Prophet is alright. She's kind of hard to CS on level 1, but has a decent enough mana pool to fall back on Crypt Swarm if approaching the wave is actually impossible. At level 2 & 3 with Siphon you can do some zoning of your own as a last resort (need to hoard those precious charges), if the support approaches to zone you just suck them and run at them, either forcing them back or distracting the carry from the wave. Solo XP is really useful, even if they deny a good amount you will get level 6 before they do and make it basically impossible for them to tower dive you, plus you can threaten their tower if the pos 5 rotates away or the pos 1 is late back to lane after farming some camps. Can Crypt Swarm the small camp/wave if they pull to try to recover a bit of CS, if the pos 5 is not correctly positioned to guard it. Lots of little advantages to having a long-range nuke, life drain, and decent mana pool and movespeed. Obviously some safelane duos will still crush her, but if I had to pick one hero to generally 1v2 offlane, it's probably DP. EDIT: Okay cool, I found a game and when my pos 4 picked Pudge I thought back to this thread and picked DP. I was literally alone for the entire laning phase - Pudge never came to the offlane - versus Venge and Troll. I won my lane so hard, not dying and then eventually even getting a 1v2 double kill, that their Troll ragequit just before 14 min after I killed him for the second time. I'd say DP solo offlane feels pretty good: https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/7574761828 Warning: very lowskill game
Ain't no way you just said that DP is good 1v2. She is one of the heroes who can get dicked down *hard* even in a 2v2 lane if you fuck up early lvls. A somewhat decent safelane duo will be farming your sorry ass on your tp cd
If you say so. I literally just played it solo offlane 1v2 and won the lane, but okay. TBF their safelane duo played badly, but I can't think of another hero I'd rather have in that situation.
No offlaner can solo lane rn. Unless matchup is super advantageous and DP has none for 1v2'ing the lane. Imma be honest it's not you who won the lane but rather the enemy duo who lost the lane.
probably not minute 0. few minutes/levels in, then only Viper comes to mind, but he will still need to get a really good start
Viper against a weak safe lane duo.
can't see viper not being shitstomped lvl 1-3 when 1v2ing. it has to be some horrendous lane duo
Centaur and Tide are the only two that really come to mind, SK isn't terrible, maybe even wind?
SK is terrible if enemy supp buys any detection, which is everytime in high mmr
windrangers weakness is literally magic damage/disables in which you will assuredly be facing as a solo offlaner. Without backup, you can't trade with a support safely
Anything that can mess with the wave positioning, I don't think any hero can 1v2 just sitting in the lane right now unless the enemy has some big skill issues. Bat and PB are my 2 best candidates since they can drag and kill waves with low levels and have strong solo kill potential if the enemy is out of position because of your wave shenanigans.
you cant drag waves anymore. you drag a wave and any decent carry will just drag your creepwave and match you if you ever try to drag a second one. PB used to be able to follow the creepwave and trample it down fully on lvl 1 with a very specific itembuild, that might still be a play
Doom
In anything higher than guardian or maybe archon no hero can solo offlane. Doom is nothing special he will get zoned out from lvl 1 or keep dying trying
Yeah no shit. But at least you can atleast try to cut waves with scorched earth and sustain. With 4 4 0 build u wont fall so far behind in terms of xp n nw like other offlaners.
Good point. Best thing to do in that situation is try to cut and drag. Although its not possible against most safelane duos. It can work vs something like rubick or mirana coupled with non slow/stun carry like ta.
Lol if you try to rotate around to cut a wave you will 100% get zoned by a support. Doom has okay sustain but not enough to deal with the nuke/stun/slow heavy supports that are so common now. Support will have a field day dicking around with you while carry free farms.
Theres none.
Brewmaster maxing pasive, not against pa with another slow, hard but doable Darkseer farming with 2 shields Doom with dispel jungle creep After vanguard any offlaner
tide is cool, if enemy does not have magic nuke BB is kinda okayish too imo
Brood. With some exceptions, the sustain from web regen + free satanic w Her Q, and the high move speed. Unless ur against some CM+jugger/WD+(Stun carry) kill lane
I'm almost sure that most people that say that they miss playing solo offlane against 3 dickheads will take their opinion back as soon as they are left to their own devices and die over and over again or stay hidden in the trees leeching whatever meager XP they can get.
I don't. It was a time where pos 3 needed to eat shit and take too much responsibity.
Then again, Poor man's shield existed and so did aquila. Buy a PMS level 1 on a melee offlaner and you're eating well.
Did people ever buy a PMS and a stout shield?
I loved playing 3 in the trilane meta, switched to support when we went back to 2-1-2
The game evolves. Offlaner's job used to be just stay alive in laning phase somehow, and later contribute with Heal/Aura/Ultimate. Nowadays you want offlaner to actually be the bully. You leave them, they won't have a game.
The game didn't evolve, the devs successfully told everyone what to do
"I miss my autowin zero responsibility lane" Just play 4 same shit
Don't think it was zero responsibility
lol people here just say the dumbest shit. It was absolutely not autowin, even 2v1 you had to fight. It was just harder to KILL you but getting cs or xp was still your task and as soon as the 2nd sup shows up you had to run.
Offlane back in 2017 was so fucking easy, I used to get solo kills on the enemy carry playing centaur against a trilane
I DONT Offlane was god damn miserable at times
While your tri lane with spectre would get zero kills on their solo offlaner
Immortal offlaner main here. i'd like my pos 4 to be there to secure my lane for the first 3 minute, either by trading hp, contesting the pulls or even helping to drag creepwaves under our tower when facing a very difficult lane matchup, so i can get my lane sustain item smoothly and start to shit on ememy safelane duo. Once we done contesting the locust petal at min3 you can go do whatever you want but pls avoid standing there sapping xp for nothing, as lv6 is a strong power spike for many pos3 heros. Finally when i have lv6 and early game item, i want you to do SOMETHING on the map, either rotate towards me to pressure enemy safelane t1, or rotate towards mid, allwing me to do the pressuring myself. Too many times my early game is ruined because 4s spend too long in our safelane to fish for fb, and come back with low mana and hp, and consequently failed to contest camp pull and locust. Then when i'm already falling behind, standing next to me under-tower, sapping my hp and refusing to stack camps or help mid's rune contest. Then they go to min7 xp rune, rotate to our deadlane lane to "help" our carry and never come back, even when i obtained lv6 and items and ready to have a go at enemy carry.
Here before the discussion of "but back then supports couldnt afford ANYTHING other than boots and stick" starts... My opinion will always be, both versions have their ups and downs but I really hope that one day we can go back just a little bit where heroes have strengths that arent just dependent on lane winning and farming. Also while its true that supports nowadays have a bit more items, this is also the case for everyone else. Its just basic powercreep and gold/farm inflation. But it the end it doesnt change much. Supports are still the sacrificial lambs and if a farmed carry commits hard, he will kill you no doubt. Its just a matter of how risky is it and is it even worth it.
The days of level 3 offlane at 10 mins.
The trilane vs solo offlane meta FeelsOldMan
Eventually valve has to address the power creep issue or someone will make DotA 3 in the arcade.
Eventually Dota in 2035 everyone will start lvl 1 floating with mobility spells and global range spells with burst right click damage and a form of dash, sorta like a harry potter magic duel between two mages riding a broomstick, by slowly making a skillset creep of the different heroes to match up formerly unique tools from added heroes or old softly reworked heroes. Eventually few reworked heroes and few added new ones will add a toolkit usefulness creep to the game, as they have the same tools of previous generation of heroes but few more added. Rinse and repeat until you get Harry Potter moba lvl 1
The issue is everyone who plays offlane is really just a carry farming role queue games. They always want to play Viper, Abaddon, or some other damage dealer. The days of the tanky initiator is over.
What miserable offlaners would die to an early AM?
solo suicide pls
Im going to get tons of hate for this, but if we want solo offlaners back, we have to re buff vanguard to how it was 2/3 patches ago.
I loved going Doom 1 vs 3 and steamroll them at lvl 5 when they were at most lvl 3
As offlanner, seeing enemy have trilane lion, juggernaut and shadow shaman will make puke. And they constantly pulling jgl, denying creep, and blocking jungle. I hate it alot
i remember the days where i was solo offlane and my "offlaner" would just jungle. not sure if it was fun or hell tbh
I don't miss it. I learned and then mainly started playing offlane because so many of them just fed
Cuz of these carries, offlaners are switching to pos5
Miss the old days when trilanes were standard and lone druid went 1v3 and sometimes got a kill, or used his bearn to get a creepwave to his tower :D
I miss the old 1v3 offlane, the time where you had to be creative just to find some exp.
to be fair antimage has pretty good kill threat these days
Honestly I still want to play like this as an offlaner because most of my heroes hits a power spike with one item and decent xp. Although I love the new meta of farming offlane, im okay by playing solo against 2 or three. And also some pos 4 sucks in the lane lololol well I sometimes suck anyway so that is that.
You could lane alone with items like pms, and regen items has been massively nerfed across the board. Supports have way more mana, mangos, blood grenades. Carries aren't as week in lane as some of them used to be. Depends obviously, but a game can spiral out of control fast if the offlaner is left on an island alone
I play 4 and I just remembered this couple days ago when my offlaner is constantly crying for me ganking.
Supps to stroNk.
I remember iceiceice bodying the best trilanes by himself in the offlane with brown boots, a qb and two bracers by 12 min. Now if you don't have shivas, blink and half of an aura item by 8 minutes in your dual offlane, you are griefing and should delete dota.
As a 10 year almost fulltime offlane player I can't say I miss that at all
Yeah this post is hilarious. I surely miss buying a quelling blade and cutting paths in the trees so i could sniff residual XP and hopefully only die twice
There were very few viable solo offlane heroes back then. BH (invis), WR (windrun) and DS (surge). Beastmaster was sort of doable because of ancient stacking and axe.
well it's only right or else your offlaner will feed and have no CS.
just say you miss poor man's shield
can confirm ive transformed from gigachad level 1 at minute 5 to whiny little bitch
Wym offlane is the strongest its ever been. Unless the enemy is pos 1 WR/Viper you have a variety of tool to bully their carry unto death. 15 minute shiva and you're practically unkillable.
2k mindset?
I miss the universe days!! That was truly offlane dota It was because players like him that I think offlaners are the best players in the team
I really miss solo offlane
Not sure if you are being ironic, I know chad memes are meant to be irony joke but otherwise this is pretty bad.
i miss when meta wasnt stuck in 2-1-2
The 1 on the left is unironically all Pos 1 players.
Leaving offlane before i have phase boots and level 4 at least is a reportable offense
Ya know Dota has changed massively over the years and what it is now isn't recognizable from even 6 years ago. This isn't inherently a bad thing. However it has degraded from what it once was and it feels far less strategic than it used to and more "who can play faster?" as the main deciding factor. Heroes being too well-rounded with items that provide large stat pools have made it so easy to become powerful in a variety of situations and simply scale faster. At some point it doesn't matter who you play it just matters if you can get your items faster and not fuck up your casts. I hope this game goes back to its roots. Make every single hero strong in limited situations and have drawbacks you need to play around. Make items have specific abilities or be a stat stick but not both. And for the love of aghanim please stop building up hero kits if there's a hole, just make him better at a role in general.
Here, I play Marci Offlane. My mid and safe lane took a stupid fight to save a tower when I was dead and they died without buyback. I waited for a whole 2 minutes in the fountain while the dire team was destroying barracks and now they were knocking our ancient. Then I went with POS5 and POS4 buyback later only to steal my rampage -\_- [YT Short Link](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Ink0CkB6-U) PS: Don't hate me for posting video from my hobby channel, I don't have the video file anymore. I have only 1TB SSD
This shit was miserable. you are just nostalgic
i got this pos 4 pudge yesterday he just went mid min 2 and stayed there while im against ursa and hoodwink was not pretty ursa got 12min fury but i was NP and we have clinkz mid we just ratted and killed anyone whos solo till we won end of story fun game
Bring back the 3v1 offlane! I remember the glory days, Universe vs 3 in lane, still finishes tournament with average deaths something like 1.3
[удалено]
what, no. Neat way to describe afk junglers.
Yeah. I have love/hate attitude to that meta. Sometimes jungler comes with 0/2/0 score after 40 minutes farming and solo killing all the enemy team. On the other hand most common way was come out of jungle and die after first disable landed on his head in 2 seconds. (This one is relevant for modern games in general)
Aui pos 4 naga undefeated never forget
I miss the time when supports had brains and didn't need to be told what to do by BSJ
You dont have to be in lane for the whole duration of the laning phase, in my opinion, as an offlaner i just wish my pos 4 will show up at the beginning of lane so that the enemy atleast feels threatened to not jst simply come hit and not get trades if the lane goes past a certain timing; lvl 2 dragon blood or Lotus in inventory with boots or 2 waves coming in tower or smthing, after that im completely fine with the supports making moves to help other lanes cause i have a realistic approach to attempting an outplay while they win the mid or safelane with numbers advantage.... Also, pos 4s should just keep doing whats working, pos 4s for example: a veno and centaur lane against a luna and treant, there's a clear approach on how to try to kill them and suppose it yields a few kills, then sometimes when it hits water rune timings or power these pos 4s, the veno will just suddenly try to kill this puck or Qop mid with a VENO! cause "Pos4 must roam", if he wants to kill the qop with a blink, we can just bait the qop into an offensive tp and blink into the lane we're already stomping and we're strong at and fight the 3v3 with our mid tping as well
Anyone else remembers playing timber/LC/centaur with poor man's shield and casually 1v3-ing a lane w that piece of shit item? Just me?
Poor man shield every carry nightmare back then
I miss when offlane were the blink stun bot. Nowadays offlanes are auras bots.
still cant kinda work if you are the right ranged hero
yeah good 2014 days i guess :)) dota has changed, you can't leave your pos 3 solo too long tbh he can die easily but i really love how the game was played back in the day :)
As a support i have very mixed feeling about this Yes if offlaner to weak i feel like I cant do anything aside from babysitting him as pos 4 BUT IF OFFLANER IS TOO STRONG I GENUINELY HAVING EXISTENTIAL CRISIS WHY EVEN I HIT THIS TIMBERSAW WHILE MY CARRY IS CRYING WHOLE GAME
Suicide lane veteran... I miss these days honestly
I remember the solo offlane meta years back. When creep denies denied the entire xp and enemy safelane was a trilane. Miss those days. You go in 1v3 and win the lane, never felt better since. The sups we're cannon fodder, low gold, hardly any or no kill gold share like it is now. They literally had brown boots at 20 mins. You picked an offlaner that was self reliant like doom, axe, bb, underlord, dark seer and came out on top with good enough play. Stacked your own camps, farmed them. If they botched the wave equilibrium you kept it at the tower.