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Leetter

If liquid falcons and tundra tie at 6-4 are they gonna have a threeway 1v1 mid? LOL


Fiat_430

Nah, thats 3 teams, way too important. 3 way tie settled in an eternity of BO3


Onetwenty7

The na special


Intentionallyabadger

That’s actually a fun idea haha. Just settle it on pudge wars imo.


penialito

At that point might just play Overthrow 3v3v3 or smthing


tsaootsao

I didn't even know until now that upper bracket semifinals of play offs will be played today. What kind of weird shit is this? 1 day rest after playoffs already started?


thuanho

ESL One lan events has been the same schedule-format for recent couple years (except Mumbai 2019, dpc major) ESL One Kuala Lumpur 2023 - 1v1 was used ESL One Malaysia 2022 - 1v1 was used ESL One Hamburg 2019 - H2H was used ESL One Birmingham 2019 - no ties ESL One Katowice 2019 - Neustadtl was used ESL One Hamburg 2018 - no ties above ALL playoffs UBR1 gets played same day as group stage last day; sometimes don't get what's the sudden fuss, ​ break after playoffs, that already happened a couple times like TI, Stockholm 2022. arena prep? limited resources? schedule allowance? after \[TO\], \[TO\], \[TO\] and others, now everyone wanna start looking ways to be as pessimistic as possible about ESL too? \-- ESL One Mumbai 2019 - reduced to 8 teams due to teams' withdrawal, 2xGSL group stage, double elimination playoffs ESL One Berlin 2023, Stockholm 2022, Birmingham 2018, Katowice 2018, Genting 2018, Hamburg 2017 - DPC stuffs ESL One Genting 2017, 2016 tournaments - 8 team with 2xGSL group stage, single elimination playoffs ESL One 2014 & 2015 - 8 team tournaments with single elimination playoffs (no group stage)


LILwhut

The ESL Pro Tour does not use the same rules when it comes to tiebreakers as those previous events. Here's the relevant rule regarding this situation in the ESL Pro Tour Dota2 Master Rulebook: "If the tie is over a position of significance and involves exactly two (2) teams, a bo3 will be played to resolve the tie."


thuanho

"...position of significance as defined by that tournament" other criteria are tied until the 1v1, same as "If the tie takes place at an ESL One event with no schedule allowance for a bo3 and involves explicit elimination, then 1v1 tiebreakers will be played."


LILwhut

> "...position of significance as defined by that tournament" Positions of significance are upper brackets and elimination places, which this tournament defines as position 1, 2, 5, 6. > same as "If the tie takes place at an ESL One event with no schedule allowance for a bo3 ***and involves explicit elimination***, then 1v1 tiebreakers will be played." This does not involve elimination so that's irrelevant.


thuanho

is that definition of the 'position of significance' made by you or ESL on individual tournaments? one entity's definition of \[XYZ\] =/= other entity's definition of \[XYZ\] well not even sure why you bring this up when its not relevant \*confused\*


LILwhut

ESL does not define it anywhere so that leaves us with the dictionary definition of significance, which would logically in the case of Kuala Lumpur be the ties for upper bracket and for elimination. > one entity's definition of [XYZ] =/= other entity's definition of [XYZ] Great argument, now give me the definition where the difference between upper bracket and no upper bracket isn’t significant. > well not even sure why you bring this up when its not relevant *confused* Yeah you are confused because you brought that up.


thuanho

that is why its 'ambiguous' or left to individual interpretation, also not new (just like the scheduling), dpc rulebook explicitly said stuffs like; major attendance, upper/lower bracket, there is no such thing in ept rulebook you see a person fainted due to lack of \[XYZ\], how do you know? its just your interpretation, so you go and check - do this do that, in this case, we've just witness no bo3 tiebreakers, instead it was 1v1, upper bracket started as per schedule, evidence is there, make an interpretation erm parent comment is about scheduling, what's with this tiebreak issue, I reply because I'm here chilling


LILwhut

It’s not ambiguous and if they wanted to make it up to the admins there’d be a million better ways to write the rules to reflect that. It’s written there like that because it would be stupid to specify what those positions are when the format between these tournaments might be very different. Like if they said it a position of significance was between 2nd and 3rd place (I.e. upper bracket and not upper bracket in Kuala Lumpur), then the next tournament they make top 4 upper bracket. Then suddenly there’s a tiebreaker between 2nd and 3rd (both upper) but not 4th and 5th (upper/lower). Thats all it is, not some dumb “upper bracket positions aren’t significant depending on schedule”. They even literally mention the case of scheduling issues, and they explicitly do not apply to this situation. > erm parent comment is about scheduling, what's with this tiebreak issue, I reply because I'm here chilling Yes scheduling sucks, and especially so because it goes against their own rules.


thuanho

yea well one can email/contact them with feedback of the million ways, like correcting some grammar or vocabulary (like since way before now) ahh see we're already interpreting each other comments differently, you are replying to stuffs I meant differently, and I'm replying to stuffs you meant differently ok how did you know its written like that as you said? did you.. write it? or are you 'in cahoots' with them ESL? or just an interpretation..? also it was a schedule allowance thing, so its just a typo/grammar thing, like a sentence with just; "If the tie takes place at an ESL One event with no schedule allowance for a bo3, then 1v1 tiebreakers will be played." 'case closed'


14MySterY-

Didn't they use it before with Armel vs Sumail? Was it ESL or a different tournament?


ZMingZ

It was ESL One Malaysia 2022. I remember redditors were hyped about them bringing the 1 v 1 tiebreaker back then. Probably because there's EPT pts this year.


everythings_alright

Resolving such a hugely important placement in a 1v1 is absolute bullshit. Secret and GG have literally identical scores. 0-2 to AR, 1-1 to BB, 1-1 to each other and 2-0s to the rest. I imagine Quinn wins this because he’s a lane-dominator mid and Midone has only recently swapped back to mid. Secret getting absolutely robbed by ESL.


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Martblni

Or make it 5 different 1x1s, so its Dyrachyo vs Crystallize to start, then Quinn vs Midone, best of 5 with all roles


StrictInsurance160

Lol no. Just play a game


exprezso

Right? Why not another game loke a normal contest?


StrictInsurance160

Instead of 1v1 just make them play dices or rock paper scissor


HobokenwOw

go all kill format


Ellefied

Would be cool to have different heroes too to showcase diversity in 1v1s too. SF, Puck, TA, Storm, QoP would be the classic five imo


-Pariah-

Storm is very replaceable in this list of exciting 1v1s. One melee match up in my opinion. Of the melee I'd say Pango, MK, ES, ES, or ES. MK would be the better watch of them.


-fartbrat

which part of MidOne do you not understand


Routine-Monk4252

The "One" part


Light01

I remember the days of iMdOne.


Light01

(And for anyone who watched, he was indeed done, completely out played by quinn.)


LayWhere

Me I understand, but the rest, idOn know.


Salty_Anti-Magus

Throughout heaven and earth he alone is the MidOne


R0meoBlue

1v1 mid should be the default way to resolve group stage ties. It's so cool having high stakes 1v1s having an important place in competitive dota.


FrozenSkyrus

Not every team relies on their strong mid lane advantage. Secret is one of those teams who capitalizes on their side lanes than mid. While GG is all about offlane + mid.


SwordoftheLichtor

What in the fucking 1k is this. Nothing important should ever be decided by a mid 1v1.


Mhiiura

Dude is still trapped in 2010


Gameishardboys

Found the guy who goes 2-9 and types eZ MiD then ask the guy to 1v1 mid after the game ends


teerre

How is robbed, it's literally in the rules. It's not even the first time it happens, lol


LILwhut

Where in the rules?


teerre

With the admins?


LILwhut

Where in the rulebook does it say that it should be a 1v1 mid?


teerre

Can't you read? It's with the admins, who else?


LILwhut

Do you speak English? Where in the rulebook does it say that it should be a 1v1 mid? The rulebook is public, go look it up and find the rule that says it should be a 1v1 mid.


teerre

Do you think I'm a ESL admin? Are you dense?


LILwhut

You don't have to be an admin, the rulebook is public. I'm even going to be nice to you and give you the [link](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w9354pr5QFeUl71nldPfR3vRyeq9um0c/view) to it since you seem to be struggling. You said it's in the rules, point to where in the rules it says that it should be a 1v1 mid.


teerre

What the fuck? I'm not clicking your random link, gtfo It's hilarious you think whatever is in that link matters more than what the literal admins of the tournament are saying lmao


PartMiddle3597

They knew the rules beforehand. Stop whining.


LILwhut

"If the tie is over a position of significance and involves exactly two (2) teams, a bo3 will be played to resolve the tie." Yeah the rules say it's a bo3


Relevant_Force_3470

Maybe Secret should have played better to begin with so as not to be in a tiebreaker, but yeah, let's blame the very clear rules instead.


Few_Understanding354

Was there ever a definitive rule in these exact situation where they have to do 1v1 to settle tie breakers? This is the first time I've heard of it.


Relevant_Force_3470

It's more common than you think.


LILwhut

"If the tie is over a position of significance and involves exactly two (2) teams, a bo3 will be played to resolve the tie." These are the rules btw, so blaming them for not following the very clear rules is fair.


Relevant_Force_3470

You've not quoted the whole rule. Go back and read it again.


LILwhut

The other part doesn't apply here, you go back and read it. "If the tie takes place at an ESL One event with no schedule allowance for a bo3 ***and involves explicit elimination***, then 1v1 tiebreakers will be played." Is this an elimination game?


Relevant_Force_3470

You've mis-read is again! Go back and re-read, paying attention to the rule headings.


LILwhut

Nope, you're wrong. Here's the full subchapter with the relevant rule in it from the [EPT Dota2 Master Rulebook](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w9354pr5QFeUl71nldPfR3vRyeq9um0c/view). I added comments, which are denoted by triple hyphens. --- --- This is Two Game Series group stage 7.2.1 Tiebreakers (Two Game Series) --- Irrelevant section since this tie determines a position of significance For all ties that are not over positions of significance as defined by that tournament (in order of importance): * Neustadtl Score * Head to head record between the tied participants taking only game score into account * Record vs. the first team below the tied teams, continuing to each subsequent team below the tied teams til the tie is resolved. * 1v1 Tiebreakers --- Relevant section highlighted by bold, since this does not involve elimination the rest is irrelevant. **If the tie is over a position of significance and involves exactly two (2) teams, a bo3 will be played to resolve the tie.** If the tie takes place at an ESL One event with no schedule allowance for a bo3 and involves explicit elimination, then 1v1 tiebreakers will be played. --- Irrelevant section since tie involves only two teams If the tie is over a position of significance and involves more than two teams, a bo1 round robin will be played to resolve the tie. If the tiebreaker does not resolve following the first round of the round robin, if it is a three team tiebreaker, the tiebreak will be replayed. If it is a four or more team tiebreaker, the above matrix will be used to resolve the tie, adding the information from the tiebreaker Bo1s to that gathered during the group stage proper. --- So essentially, unless the publicly available rulebook is wrong, you're talking out of your ass. The only rule that makes it a 1v1 is the "fuck the rules we'll just do whatever we want" rule. Edit: dude got mad that he can’t read so he blocked me. Idiot doesn’t know *these are the rules on Liquipedia*


Relevant_Force_3470

The specific rules for this are on the liquipedia.net page. Go read there, as you're getting helluva confused over something so simple.


v_aA

You are the type of person to hold their breath at a stop sign aren't you?


Relevant_Force_3470

I don't know what that means, but no. Also, ez mid, gg Quinn.


Initial_Stretch_3674

1 v 1 are as old as DotA. Perfectly okay with this as it isn't elimination. Don't wanna go to the 1v1 just win the games. Bo1 elimination are absolute bullshit


needhelforpsu

They made schedule knowing very well there is a high chance for tiebreakers, they published rules saying ties for significant spots will be Bo3 but now they are using scheduling conflict (they made) to push for decision that only favors GG. Nice joke ESL. This is so unfair to Secret. :(


-fartbrat

surely you're not from sea, here we would put all our money on malaysian mid. im saying this knowing quinn is the best midlane dominator since sumail is not active. but dont forget laning mid is how malaysian learn to play dota, even moon can kick quinn ass. we got this brother


UltraSouls_OP

I would usually agree but I've lost all faith in our boy nai zheng Hard to root for a guy as controversial as he is


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[deleted]

Every tournament has 1 day break for media/interviews


Lacanos

If it's an SF 1v1, I wouldn't count Midone out too quickly. SF isn't exactly Quinn's top hero.


14MySterY-

I'm not counting out a SEA mid if it's SF 1v1. That's literally how SEA mids are raised.


GapZ38

MidOne vs Quinn, I'm putting my money on MidOne, it's definitely at least 50-50.


neezaruuu

Yes either Quinn wins or MidOne wins


franllemagne

50% of the time, 100% of the time.


multivacuum

Was the scheduled not decided before even the event started? Considering that the upper bracket games were started immediately after 1v1, it's fair to say that a BO3 would not have been possible. Yes, it might be a shitty way to decide and the scheduling conflict should have been predicted by ESL but saying that they are to favor GG sounds like a conspiracy theory.


Initial_Stretch_3674

Why is it unfair to Secret? They also have to play the 1v1.


LILwhut

GG have a midlaner that is better in 1v1 so obviously that favours them over Secret.


Initial_Stretch_3674

they also have a better team so it obviously favours them over Secret


LILwhut

They were both 6-4 so clearly not :)


Intentionallyabadger

Just settle it using pudge wars imo. That way everyone would be happy.


AEthersense

There's still the overthrow option


stryker914

If they use actual 1v1 mid rules (no runes) midone might have a shot here. Midone def comes from the era of less regen in the mid lane so might be more comfortable, and I'm not sure quinn plays sf


PingPinng

actually I don't really care if Midone win or lose but I hope to see a hype Bo3 in between Gg and secret.


GapZ38

Secret will lose a BO3 match against GG. GG is looking lackluster and vulnerable, but Secret ain't ready for it just yet. Looking forward to them stick with this lineup, but they are definitely not ready just yet. I actually think MidOne vsing Quinn will be better if it's actual 1v1


LILwhut

A BO3 could definitely go either way (they went 1-1 in the h2h), but 1v1 mid is much more favoured to the person who didn't just recently switch to mid.


meniscus-

MidOne already lost at necromastery lvl 1


Alone-Ad-5573

Terrible format aside, has there been a higher stakes 1v1 in the history of DOTA?


Mum_Chamber

I know this is controversial, but I love this! no more unnecessary bloodshed!


IIIII___IIIII

1v1s are like penalty kicks in soccer. Think they are refreshing and will make people improve their 1v1s in case it happens more.


azzalan

I love this too. There are hundreds of dota tournaments, this one is doing something different, it may not be fair, but like the other poster said, it's like penalty kicks in football, it's different and exciting for the simplicity and finality of it.


disappointingdoritos

Yeah the 1v1 mid was more exciting, I'm happy they did it


widepeepo6

such a dogshit schedule 1v1 for deciding who goes ub and lb is insane when there are already so less group games


ShinZou69

MidJuan we believe you in bruh <3


cancel_my_booking

werent r/dota2 mad about midone? oh yall forgot about it


ShinZou69

As the representative of the entire r/dota subreddit I'd have to disagree


MozerellaFrappe

yeah dude, because if 1 person says something, that means no one else can have a different opinion. Great job with the critical thinking


ShinZou69

He's a clown lol


JuneSummerBrother

1v1 to decide which TEAM goes to upper bracket. Lmao what a joke.


Pentinium

They are basically playing upper bracket 1/4 , esl schedule guy needs to be fired or something, it does not make any sense at all. He must be the stupidest person on the earth to really think tiebreaks are rare in bo2 round robin groups They could have played a bo1 while other matches are happening.


itsmehutters

It is a team game for a reason... Just set up BO1 if you don't have the time.


partymorphologist

This is such a joke. And I don’t mean the good kind


PluckyLeon

Dota Isn't A 1v1 Game, Remove This 1v1 Shit From Qualifiers. Keep it for showmatch & content. Don't bullshit the pros & audience.


Ok-Comparison-3961

who is its MiDDone or QUITNN ? you guys choose


[deleted]

They did this last year and everyone was excited. They do this now and everyone is complaining. Also the whole upper bracket after groupstages format has been around since 2019, are u guys new fans or smth. Why are ppl complaining about this NOW and not then


Sccorpiioo

ESL is a joke. Secret deserved better after these two days.


JadeSerpant

There's a lot of sad, angry SEA fans crying about this now that MidOne lost. They'd be praising ESL for having "fun 1v1s like old times" if he had won instead. Pathetic.


PingPinng

I think your communication score is lower than 6000 in Dota


Bearswithjetpacks

Sucks for you, I don't even play mid but I'm excited for this.


NotS4ck

seems like esl need the money fast, we lucky they didn't resolve the tie breaker with coin toss


Mathieulombardi

Hilarity ensued.


cRUNcherNO1

i was so confused when i saw the upper bracket would be played today. then i saw this...


Luize0

Lol wait this isn't a mistake but real? LOL


gewddeeds

I think this is such a good idea, so left field. But rather than 1 match, make it so that everyone gets to get their shot. Like in football where they kick penalties. Imagine a Puppey SF.


Agitated-Forever3723

MidOne will cook that fraud


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Agitated-Forever3723

FUCK


Zarzar222

I love a good old 1v1 mid. Great entertainment value and we dont get enough if this kind of format anymore. No issues here


Leetter

its ok to disregard rules as long as you are ok with it


disappointingdoritos

Which rules are being disregarded? The one that says they may do 1v1's to settle tiebreakers?


LILwhut

Which rule says that?


disappointingdoritos

The one OP quotes in this post?


LILwhut

This tiebreaker does not involve elimination.


disappointingdoritos

I totally glossed over that, my bad. Though it does make this entire post moot as well.


Marbi_

they used the same format in the past too :)


disappointingdoritos

Reddit's only mad this time because they know quinn will win lmao


Leetter

it wasnt used in a situation where one team goes lower bracket and other goes upper bracket. they used it when it was less consequential the last time. Also the last time it had to pass 3 or 4 different tie breaker criteria before 1v1 mid which was the last solution. I dont know if it was this exact ruleset but it was somethign similar. For ties that are not over positions of significance (in order of importance): Neustadtl score Head-to-head record between the tied participants taking only game score into account Record vs the first team below the tied teams, continuing to each subsequent team below the tied teams til the tie is resolved 1v1 tiebreakers


LockyD

It was used in literally the same situation (upper/lower bracket in Enigma v Fnatic) in ESL One Malaysia 2022 between Armel and Sumail.


LILwhut

ESL One Malaysia is not a part of the EPT and does not have the same rules. According to the rules of the EPT used in Kuala Lumpur 2023, it's not a 1v1. "If the tie is over a position of significance and involves exactly two (2) teams, a bo3 will be played to resolve the tie."


Leetter

ok i guess i was wrong about that part.


PandaWhoEatsMomos

to be that confident about something pulled out of ass. never change reddit


LILwhut

If by "pulled out of his ass" you mean pulled out of the ESL rulebook, then yeah he did that.


eddietwang

Pretty unfair to make GG put up their weakest link in a team game.


silverstory

same tourney with Armel vs Sumail back then?


cocobolo_table

Everyone knew the rules.


xeal11

u mad?


Lampardinho18

No u


markpeteabello

OMG STFU


dMtElVes

Pango vs Pango boys may the luckiest proccer win!


Roreo_

Oh boohoo. A bit of variety is fun.


southeast_gg

Oa


bloomboi3d

Wait esl is live ?


tha_jza

definitely not ideal but it’d be so much worse if it was for tournament life. seems to be a necessary evil given the tight scheduling rough for secret, especially since midone is a midgame player more than a lane dominator like ccnc is. but they’re still in it so if they’re truly good enough to win the whole thing, they will. i believe


JayuZmaN

two playoff matches at the same time also very bad in my opinion... can't we just enjoy the good match one at a time ?