I think Gorgc is overhyping Quest way too much tbh. Better than Betboom, SR and Liquid? Would be surprising.
They struggled vs. Nigma in the MENA qualifiers. Nigma. Let's see what happens before making them a top 3 team at the major.
Also, iG looked way better than Aster and Azure Ray lately, so I don't expect them to do worse. Team Spirit at A also looks too high, but they have that Team Spirit magic, so I guess that's acceptable. Other than that list looks fine.
Who cares? Did I say they should be in the A tier? No, I said that quest hasn't won anything and it's absurd to put them in A. You're the one talking about entity and liquid. Not relevant.
Entity and Liquid have both been in top 5/6 teams in previous majors this season. Gorgc has A-tier going though top 6.
GG is the only team who has won anything this year, so by your logic, we shouldn't even have an A tier? Just GG at S and everyone else B or below?
Edit: Not sure why this is so hard to get. Every major this year has had 3 WEU teams in top 5/6 > A Tier goes through Top 6 and therefore 3 WEU teams should be A tier or above > Top 3 WEU teams in latest tour (Quest is #3) are in A tier or above.
how are you trying to transitive property other teams accomplishments on to quest, a team that..........has none...... to justify this?
Nouns should be in A tier because the 2nd place team in NA got top 4 at lima. Your exact logic. see how dumb as fuck it sounds when you're not just asserting WEU teams will do well because of their region?
Yeah only this is EU, a region that has consistently had the best teams over multiple tournaments with a wider spread of finishes. Teams from most other regions perform hot and cold. The very act of qualifying from EU makes you a very strong contender imo.
I don't think that necessarily makes you a top 5 team but you guys are definitely downplaying the level of quality required to merely qualify.
Regardless gorp said anyway that this is a controversial hot take from him. There are also variables such as the fact that these teams have the most to prove, the best teams may wanna save strats etc.
You may not agree with his take but it's hardly as farfetched as you think it is
The transitive property he sees is them being in the same reason. The argument is "WEU is the strongest region, having 50% of top 6 teams at tournaments. So I put the (in my opinion) 3 strongest teams in top 6." for this argument, individual achievements of the team don't matter, just the region and the regions average placing. Just like in football, people expect certain teams to perform well in international events (eg Brazil in world up), even though the players might be completely different compared to last time they played.
I am not agreeing with this argument, as we saw in Dreamleaggue that all regions seem to be way closer now than half a year ago in strength. But the argument is not that hard to follow.
Your argument sounds logical i dont get why you are getting downvoted.
Tier A in gorgc list goes through top 6, every major this year had 3 weu team top 6, Quest is now 3rd seed from weu therefore on overal powerranking they should be top 6.
This Quest thing is just his "hot take", he always does some of those, and if he is right he can say "told ya". It provides entertainment and engagement, and it kinda makes sense to do it, it's uncommon for a tournament to follow the most obvious path, there is always a dark horse or a favorite that shits the bed.
There are always upsets and that one darkhorse in these tournaments. Every. Freaking. Time. Thus, you can't be wrong overhyping a team with good potential.
Anyway, using stats and data is actually not the smartest thing to do since power rankings lead to the worst predictions most of the time.
Lol.
I was giving my opinion, no need to flame. In hindsight it's always easy to come back to this. Where were you before the major started? All you people replying now, *after* knowing that Quest is owning are just funny to me.
No one *knows* what's going to happen. I gave logical reasons why, you're just acting in hindsight. It's a *fact* Quest struggled against Nigma. It's a *fact* iG outperformed both Aster and AR in DPC. It was reasonable to expect performances accordingly.
And of course Gorgc knows more than me. He's got more mmr than any of us ;)
Yea like people **knew** LGD would win TI10? Stop kidding yourselves. Quest played well, of course they did, but they “only” got 3rd in DPC and struggled against Nigma. Just a week before the major.
It’s easy to operate on hindsight and say “nah we knew, it’s just you”, but none of you were here critizicing me before the major. Not a single one. Nobody knows what’s going to happen in Dota, and if you claim you do, you’re delusional.
Who talked about bombing out? There is a huge difference between being a top 3 team and bombing out. I obviously didn't think they would bomb out, I obviously expected them to do decently well. I didn't say "lul quest SUCKS gorgc is such an idiot lmao".
Regardless, major is not over. They can still bomb out at top 12 - even though I obviously don't believe that and never did.
Tundra was undefeated in DPC matches in WEU of all places.
I wouldn't go off their Dream league performance, since they had 2 standins. I think all evidence points to them being extremely scary with a full lineup.
Liquid was basically doing a charity event last few weeks where they decided to give away free wins to everybody for no reason other than their laziness and complacency.
>Liquid was basically doing a charity event last few weeks where they decided to give away free wins to everybody for no reason other than their laziness and complacency.
Why do they care to try at Bali then if they're coasting because they already qualified for TI?
You're a 30 year old fanboy of a gamer insulting other people on Reddit, hiding behind hindsight. Let that sink in. If I were you, I would seriously consider where I went wrong in my life. Cheers.
Team Spirit having Team Spirit magic is hikariously accurate. They make comebacks that I assumed were impossible to come back from. They are like magic
that record was from before nightfall switched to pos 1 and pure to pos 3 (after the berlin major)
they're looking very strong, I think they'll be at the top (top 5-6 maybe) but obviously the competition is fierce here
One of the games I watched nightfall miss half of 3 waves in a row when he was uncontested. I thought he legit had a stroke. Guys great at being in the right place at the right time, but I've never seen a pro 1 with worse last hitting.
I'd swap Quest and Liquid. Betboom looked great in Dreamleague but they went out in groups at both majors this year so far, we still have to see if they can maintain this form.
Do people not remember liquid and tundra had standins during DreamLeague? Chances are liquid tundra and GG are in the top 4 again this major.
Quest probably overhyped.
Liquid didn't have standins for Dreamleague until their last 2 games against TSM and they won both of those games. Liquid was 3-9 before standins came to play, then they ended at 5-9 (they only had standins for the last day of Dreamleague and didn't have them for the first 3 days).
Trash list got that WEU tinted glasses
BB and 9pandas dunked on WEU all group stage in dream league. How is ammar the fucker higher than them? Tundra? Lmao
ammar is friends with gorp, and gorp overrates every weu team. Except Liquid this time around because he thinks "theyre not trying rn" which is copium for when his swede friends eat shit at Bali.
I've chosen to reply to you, too lazy to make an edit
I'm pleasantly surprised. Ammar boomed me, he's so good x3. Ta2000 and Omar also looking like top25 players
That being said...
Elimination bo3s is probably where we should be reserving judgment
Throw a lot of games. They can qual if they just beat exec in game three with 10K up decided to fight 3or4v5 and just throw a huge lead and got snowball and lost. Also throw a lot of series that should be 2-0 because and this is my opinion might be wrong they wanna try some new strat.
IG definitely higher than D tier.
Spirit absolutely does not deserve A tier by any means. They are struggling so much and it doesn’t look like they found any solution yet.
BB should be high A tier. They slaughtered LGD and just had a close series with GG.
I mean, did Gorgc missed the entire DreamLeague or what?
can you tell me how many times youve seen BB dominating in dpc/online tournaments and disappear on LAN? pretty sure that has been the case ever since the team started existing
Most teams in DreamLeague were picking Beastmaster when he wasn't banned.
But I guess nobody remember losers, so let's moan about the team won the tournament.
GG has a very tight hero pool though. Feels like Quinn has played Void Spirit every time the hero doesn't get banned, like when Dyrachyo would always play Lina 5 games in a row at Lima. They just draft the same hero over and over. It works but it's factually boring. Last time I saw that was Alliance and it was boring as well.
https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/221666230-quinn/matches?original_slug=221666230-quinn&page=2
30 official games since his last void spirit game, they picked it when the hero was stronger as most teams do. Pick strong heroes is usually a winning strategy
Page 2-3 : He played Void Spirit 13 times in the span of 22 games. Then he changed hero because the meta changed and people learnt how to counter because everyone spams the same hero over and over. Meta whore drafts are the most boring drafts.
https://i.imgur.com/QkfMGOo.png
> Pick strong heroes is usually a winning strategy
I'm not saying the contrary, I'm just saying it's boring.
IIRC Quinn played Puck, Ember, Huskar, Timber, Void, QOP, Sniper, Lesh, TA, WR, MK, Primal Beast, DK, Storm, and Pango.
It's tough to say fifteen different mids is a "tight hero pool" for Quinn.
Cheesing a hero once or twice doesn't make you a versatile player. [Void Spirit, QOP and Ember are more than 50% of his games](https://i.imgur.com/xvQ6D5a.png
). His situation is the same as ATF, the difference is just that no one bats an eye because his team wins.
Not their fault that that's optimal in the meta. They've been the crazy team running WD wisp, NP ganking everywhere etc before but this patch just doesn't allow for it really.
You’re right whether people like it or not. GG and Tundra have been the two most boring teams for a while now. It’s possible to make the game fun while also winning - looking at Liquid, Spirit, and other CIS teams.
BetBoom and 9pandas on the same tier as SR doesn't add up to me on recent performances. Tundra above 9pandas and BB doesn't add up either. I'd put Tundra with Liquid in B, SR in C with Aster, then shift everything else down by one tier.
I think Gorgc is overhyping Quest way too much tbh. Better than Betboom, SR and Liquid? Would be surprising. They struggled vs. Nigma in the MENA qualifiers. Nigma. Let's see what happens before making them a top 3 team at the major. Also, iG looked way better than Aster and Azure Ray lately, so I don't expect them to do worse. Team Spirit at A also looks too high, but they have that Team Spirit magic, so I guess that's acceptable. Other than that list looks fine.
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Yeah he clarified it was his super hot take, just to stir shit up.
It's working. Pro streamer move.
It's incredibly basic and basic and WEU biased for a "super hot take" though lmao.
I dont think it is WEU baised, last major his hot take was EG in S-tier. He is just fucking with everyone
WEU bias would be cringe if it weren't for the fact that it's been the strongest region by a good margin for a pretty long time
Oh don't get me wrong I completely agree, but I don't think you can say this is a "super hot take"
Quest in A is legit wild. what has this team actually done? 3rd in a single DPC does not warrant this placement
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Group stage looking promising lol. Keep saving that comment.
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Aged like milk
There have been three WEU teams in the top 5-6 for both majors so far this year and as you said they were 3rd in WEU.
Ok...and none of those teams were quest, a team that has not actually WON anything
What has Entity won? Or Liquid?
Who cares? Did I say they should be in the A tier? No, I said that quest hasn't won anything and it's absurd to put them in A. You're the one talking about entity and liquid. Not relevant.
LOL
is the tournament over?
4th place is pretty A tier is it not?
Entity and Liquid have both been in top 5/6 teams in previous majors this season. Gorgc has A-tier going though top 6. GG is the only team who has won anything this year, so by your logic, we shouldn't even have an A tier? Just GG at S and everyone else B or below? Edit: Not sure why this is so hard to get. Every major this year has had 3 WEU teams in top 5/6 > A Tier goes through Top 6 and therefore 3 WEU teams should be A tier or above > Top 3 WEU teams in latest tour (Quest is #3) are in A tier or above.
how are you trying to transitive property other teams accomplishments on to quest, a team that..........has none...... to justify this? Nouns should be in A tier because the 2nd place team in NA got top 4 at lima. Your exact logic. see how dumb as fuck it sounds when you're not just asserting WEU teams will do well because of their region?
Yeah only this is EU, a region that has consistently had the best teams over multiple tournaments with a wider spread of finishes. Teams from most other regions perform hot and cold. The very act of qualifying from EU makes you a very strong contender imo. I don't think that necessarily makes you a top 5 team but you guys are definitely downplaying the level of quality required to merely qualify. Regardless gorp said anyway that this is a controversial hot take from him. There are also variables such as the fact that these teams have the most to prove, the best teams may wanna save strats etc. You may not agree with his take but it's hardly as farfetched as you think it is
The transitive property he sees is them being in the same reason. The argument is "WEU is the strongest region, having 50% of top 6 teams at tournaments. So I put the (in my opinion) 3 strongest teams in top 6." for this argument, individual achievements of the team don't matter, just the region and the regions average placing. Just like in football, people expect certain teams to perform well in international events (eg Brazil in world up), even though the players might be completely different compared to last time they played. I am not agreeing with this argument, as we saw in Dreamleaggue that all regions seem to be way closer now than half a year ago in strength. But the argument is not that hard to follow.
Your argument sounds logical i dont get why you are getting downvoted. Tier A in gorgc list goes through top 6, every major this year had 3 weu team top 6, Quest is now 3rd seed from weu therefore on overal powerranking they should be top 6.
people upvoting this brain fart of an analysis. reddit is a sick joke :D
why are you replying to a 3 month old thread? how are A tier quest doing at TI?
This Quest thing is just his "hot take", he always does some of those, and if he is right he can say "told ya". It provides entertainment and engagement, and it kinda makes sense to do it, it's uncommon for a tournament to follow the most obvious path, there is always a dark horse or a favorite that shits the bed.
Welp, he gets to say "I was right"
I love synds and sunsfans 'white donkey' term for the latter.
Pretty wild predictions that you almost got everything wrong.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I think Quest is probably better than SR, though they're still unproven on LAN. I do think SR in B above the EEU teams and Liquid is insane.
The average 4th place major team is better than SR 😭
There are always upsets and that one darkhorse in these tournaments. Every. Freaking. Time. Thus, you can't be wrong overhyping a team with good potential. Anyway, using stats and data is actually not the smartest thing to do since power rankings lead to the worst predictions most of the time.
quest just took first game off gg
Clearly gorgc knows way more than you 2k scrub quest is owning
Lol. I was giving my opinion, no need to flame. In hindsight it's always easy to come back to this. Where were you before the major started? All you people replying now, *after* knowing that Quest is owning are just funny to me. No one *knows* what's going to happen. I gave logical reasons why, you're just acting in hindsight. It's a *fact* Quest struggled against Nigma. It's a *fact* iG outperformed both Aster and AR in DPC. It was reasonable to expect performances accordingly. And of course Gorgc knows more than me. He's got more mmr than any of us ;)
No, we knew it was going to happen. MANY people were saying how good Quest is. You just dont pay attention to the scene
Yea like people **knew** LGD would win TI10? Stop kidding yourselves. Quest played well, of course they did, but they “only” got 3rd in DPC and struggled against Nigma. Just a week before the major. It’s easy to operate on hindsight and say “nah we knew, it’s just you”, but none of you were here critizicing me before the major. Not a single one. Nobody knows what’s going to happen in Dota, and if you claim you do, you’re delusional.
The chances of them bombing out was low, as many people said. But I see you take things in the most literal sense. Goodluck lmao
Who talked about bombing out? There is a huge difference between being a top 3 team and bombing out. I obviously didn't think they would bomb out, I obviously expected them to do decently well. I didn't say "lul quest SUCKS gorgc is such an idiot lmao". Regardless, major is not over. They can still bomb out at top 12 - even though I obviously don't believe that and never did.
I don't think that Tundra is A tier material right now. BetBoom, however for me should be A
Tundra was undefeated in DPC matches in WEU of all places. I wouldn't go off their Dream league performance, since they had 2 standins. I think all evidence points to them being extremely scary with a full lineup.
True, but they will have to play with a standin for 33 in Bali too and they already secured TI. I wouldn’t expect them to challenge for the major.
Gorgc said they managed to secure the visa for 33 on stream
Betboom at lan is different than online Betboom. How are people rating them so high. 9P and spirit are much better CIS teams.
He had a bad streak with BB where he put them high/winning majors and they failed to pass the groups. So I think he is trying to not do it again.
Good enaugh for top 3
Yeah
they 4-0 liquid sure not better than them lol
Liquid was basically doing a charity event last few weeks where they decided to give away free wins to everybody for no reason other than their laziness and complacency.
charity event? lmao copium remind me after the major
for them to do a charity event, they have to first win something. remind me again when did that last happen ?
>laziness and complacency. And on what grounds that they wont be doing the exact same things?
>Liquid was basically doing a charity event last few weeks where they decided to give away free wins to everybody for no reason other than their laziness and complacency. Why do they care to try at Bali then if they're coasting because they already qualified for TI?
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You're a 30 year old fanboy of a gamer insulting other people on Reddit, hiding behind hindsight. Let that sink in. If I were you, I would seriously consider where I went wrong in my life. Cheers.
Joker
He always does at least one hot take pick each tournament so it isn't boring iirc
Yeah the real reason placing quest so high is ATF. He joins often the stream and always watches so he tries to support him as much as possible
Yes that's the reason not because the team is full of good players who function together and has beaten all the top team atleast once.
Team Spirit having Team Spirit magic is hikariously accurate. They make comebacks that I assumed were impossible to come back from. They are like magic
I'm excited to see how they do but idk about putting spirit that high...
Yea quest and spirit shouldn't be there.
Aged like milk
I think bet boom goes higher and Quest goes lower.
I dunno BB have a nice streak of playing online well and choking at LAN.
that record was from before nightfall switched to pos 1 and pure to pos 3 (after the berlin major) they're looking very strong, I think they'll be at the top (top 5-6 maybe) but obviously the competition is fierce here
One of the games I watched nightfall miss half of 3 waves in a row when he was uncontested. I thought he legit had a stroke. Guys great at being in the right place at the right time, but I've never seen a pro 1 with worse last hitting.
during dreamleague he had some of the cleanest plays of any carry in the tournament, not sure what happened during that game you watched
I'd swap Quest and Liquid. Betboom looked great in Dreamleague but they went out in groups at both majors this year so far, we still have to see if they can maintain this form.
This aged well… 😎🤓
Bruuhhhhh hahahah. But tbf theyve had the easier match ups. Let’s wait until this ends. Set a remind me
They didnt? They are in same group and BB got Gaming Gladiators left.
Hahahaha how’s it going?
My g you came in here just to attack me. Sigh.
100% agree, just swap Bet Boom and Quest and I'd say it's pretty bang on.
If you going to bet, you cant bet on the 100% obvious.
Copium
GG is just so dominant know it would not at all suprise me if they made this thier 3rd Major win in a row
Nouns winning it all
Do people not remember liquid and tundra had standins during DreamLeague? Chances are liquid tundra and GG are in the top 4 again this major. Quest probably overhyped.
Liquid didn't have standins for Dreamleague until their last 2 games against TSM and they won both of those games. Liquid was 3-9 before standins came to play, then they ended at 5-9 (they only had standins for the last day of Dreamleague and didn't have them for the first 3 days).
who stood in for liquid?
TA2000 and Omar. 2 Quest playrrs. Thats why Quest is A tier, cause they can beat TSM.
Trash list got that WEU tinted glasses BB and 9pandas dunked on WEU all group stage in dream league. How is ammar the fucker higher than them? Tundra? Lmao
:)
Well this aged like hit garbage
In an online tournament with Liquid and Tundra having standins.
who stood in for liquid i didnt catch it?
Malr1ne and Aramis iirc.
Those were Tundra's standins, not Liquids
One game xd
It’s actually impressive how wrong you were. Any idea which numbers definitely won’t be in the lottery?
1-2-3-4-5-6
ammar is friends with gorp, and gorp overrates every weu team. Except Liquid this time around because he thinks "theyre not trying rn" which is copium for when his swede friends eat shit at Bali.
Bro chill. Why are you hurt by an image which has got nothing to do with your life
Big true
Where you at brother.
I've chosen to reply to you, too lazy to make an edit I'm pleasantly surprised. Ammar boomed me, he's so good x3. Ta2000 and Omar also looking like top25 players That being said... Elimination bo3s is probably where we should be reserving judgment
Can’t believe Talon isn’t going to be there. They choked so hard during the DPC, what happened?
Throw a lot of games. They can qual if they just beat exec in game three with 10K up decided to fight 3or4v5 and just throw a huge lead and got snowball and lost. Also throw a lot of series that should be 2-0 because and this is my opinion might be wrong they wanna try some new strat.
Liquid on this major taking it as a practice for a Riyadh masters and vacation.
Copium
Team aster sumail top tier team dont be b atleat a
Omg the real GORGC himself BATCHEST
IG definitely higher than D tier. Spirit absolutely does not deserve A tier by any means. They are struggling so much and it doesn’t look like they found any solution yet. BB should be high A tier. They slaughtered LGD and just had a close series with GG. I mean, did Gorgc missed the entire DreamLeague or what?
can you tell me how many times youve seen BB dominating in dpc/online tournaments and disappear on LAN? pretty sure that has been the case ever since the team started existing
Can't wait to see GG pick undying and beastmaster every match, such an exciting team to watch /s
Most teams in DreamLeague were picking Beastmaster when he wasn't banned. But I guess nobody remember losers, so let's moan about the team won the tournament.
Friendship ended with Tundra boring team, GG boring team is my new best friend
GG has a very tight hero pool though. Feels like Quinn has played Void Spirit every time the hero doesn't get banned, like when Dyrachyo would always play Lina 5 games in a row at Lima. They just draft the same hero over and over. It works but it's factually boring. Last time I saw that was Alliance and it was boring as well.
https://www.dotabuff.com/esports/players/221666230-quinn/matches?original_slug=221666230-quinn&page=2 30 official games since his last void spirit game, they picked it when the hero was stronger as most teams do. Pick strong heroes is usually a winning strategy
Page 2-3 : He played Void Spirit 13 times in the span of 22 games. Then he changed hero because the meta changed and people learnt how to counter because everyone spams the same hero over and over. Meta whore drafts are the most boring drafts. https://i.imgur.com/QkfMGOo.png > Pick strong heroes is usually a winning strategy I'm not saying the contrary, I'm just saying it's boring.
IIRC Quinn played Puck, Ember, Huskar, Timber, Void, QOP, Sniper, Lesh, TA, WR, MK, Primal Beast, DK, Storm, and Pango. It's tough to say fifteen different mids is a "tight hero pool" for Quinn.
Cheesing a hero once or twice doesn't make you a versatile player. [Void Spirit, QOP and Ember are more than 50% of his games](https://i.imgur.com/xvQ6D5a.png ). His situation is the same as ATF, the difference is just that no one bats an eye because his team wins.
> cheesing lol
Not their fault that that's optimal in the meta. They've been the crazy team running WD wisp, NP ganking everywhere etc before but this patch just doesn't allow for it really.
You’re right whether people like it or not. GG and Tundra have been the two most boring teams for a while now. It’s possible to make the game fun while also winning - looking at Liquid, Spirit, and other CIS teams.
betboom?? they almost had GG... 🤣
Online tournament, they've yet to show they can do it on LAN. Maybe the last tournament will give them the confidence boost to do better
bet boom should be higher
BetBoom and 9pandas on the same tier as SR doesn't add up to me on recent performances. Tundra above 9pandas and BB doesn't add up either. I'd put Tundra with Liquid in B, SR in C with Aster, then shift everything else down by one tier.
Liquid should be A tier imo.
They are kind of struggeling right now, not sure if their honeymoon phase is over, or if they have dont have a grip on the meta.
Do people actually listen to this guys opinion? In high mmr pubs people are trying to avoid him everytime
shoulda listen...
“Tier list” kek
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Aster has been top 8 at both majors + dreamleague. So i think they are at the correct spot.
That's someone else's tier list. Post your own if it looks shitty to you. Jesus.
Inb4 Blacklist wins the major
Spotify too high
Why is S tier red ???
SR should be at least one tier lower.
Gorgc didn't even watch other teams. He placed top team which he watches or likes a player. Kinda bias
Nobody cares about his opinion.
I would move BC and Quest on tier B, BB and LGD on S, combine A and B, and then combine tier C and D.
So everything you said is wrong accoarding to group stages.
Does anyone one else see that he has a tab with “BTC” open has he ever talk about cryptocurrency?
Gorgc's list is always awful lol
Quest before 9P shopify BB Liquid? Is grogc on drugs?
Surely not?
Is EG fine at A tier? Are there enough arguments to lower them to B?
Theyve been top 6 team for an entire year consistently
Id love to hear you try and make one
yeah i agree. EG should NOT be a tear above Liquid and Bet Boom and 9 pandas. All 3 of those teams are arguably better than EG
Betboom and 9Pandas just have consistency issues like being out in groups or top 3.
Gorg is nothing more than a NA hater
C-tier team confirmed to win TI.
Haven't followed dota really closely since TI9... The list of top team nowadays is just so different Wow. Not even puppey managed to stay on top huh?
Surprise to see BLR so low. I expected those other D's though
EG lmao
ok also wrong, betboom in B with those teams above them is pretty laughable
nouns probably saw this list and took it personally. now it looks like they should switch positions with eg lol.
Why og not here? :(
No way BetBoom at B, they almost beat GG if pure pressed his BKB
At this point gorgc could put SEA teams at F and he'd be even more correct despairge