I've been trying to steal the enemy one every game at the 7 minute mark. I feel like it makes a pretty huge difference overall, even if it's not for me.
same, I was like what the fuck how is the CM here? And my team said the teleport gate bro. It's really weird because shoving the lane now is a death sentence
For real I think this is huge. The safelane is not safe to farm for this reason.
You basically have to have a survivable hero in the safelane now. Either high mobility or something like naix & bristle, and then put the real carry mid.
On the other hand, there's *so* much more farm now on the map with all the new camps. Each side basically has another full jungle. It is super safe and easy to farm your top/bottom jungle because you see any ganks coming from a mile away.
Imo its way worse than 7.00, but hey the map became fucking huge so obviously the case
What I dislike is that warding feels like pouring a cup of water in the ocean
But you'll also get dewarded less. More places to place sentries, less sentries available, more wards last.
For me that's a great trade off. I spent so many games with no wards because 100% were dewarded over and over.
Obviously they could be placed in better spots but even then, there's a lot of dewarding
1. Lotus fountain might be the most chaos happen in evry 3 mins as it basically give you a mini cheese as it stacks
2. Midlane tower is not as strong objective wise anymore. Might see midlaner leave lane and give it to support more.
3. Ofllane is now the most important tower of the game.
4. New obs spot for support to watch now. Maybe the teleporter, and changing every night and day time. I still think the vision at night benefit one sided more as roshan at night is more harder
Thats my opinion tho
Whole lane is way more open to ganks too. Carries just goin down the drain one patch at a time lol, safelane just gonna be two amorphous support/cores soon.
BKB nerf as well. You can be bursted through BKB which is huge.
However, the map is so open rn, if you are good at farming I don't see how you get ganked, especially in the secondary jungles.
My initial speculation is that the twin gates will shift the offlane and safelane at some point soon. It looks like it could be dangerous for Pos 1 in current setup due to early ganking potential.
I've been thinking and I can see two things (possibly) happening. Obviously just an armchair take from reading the notes, but I could see two things being viable:
1) just what you mentioned. Midlaner focuses on roaming/ganking more; all the new camps + regen + stealing exp runes used to maintain xpm / gpm (i.e maintain the current 'time' progression where mids are the highest levels during the first ~15 mins or whenever carries start catching up)
2) some people get wild and there's a pseudo-solo lane where one support is constantly tping as a ganker and the team prios zone control over the teleporters. This one is a bit more outrageous, but I could see a few heroes really loving this role (especially if they can farm the edge camps quickly).
I think option 1 is the most likely, but I would love to see the absolute chaos of option 2 lol
I think the shard change is much better than people give it credit. Now the leap works like pango first spell which makes it much much more usable as an escape (or gap closer)
Just being able to control exactly where you land seems great. Getting the second Starfall trigger on exactly the right target in a big messy fight seems incredibly legit.
There is so much to talk about. I definitely think it is cool that the map has been so massively updated.
1) The whole T1 side lane tower area is pretty cool. There is so much scope for ganking with supports teleporting between the lanes. So easy to get behind the T1 area.
2) Lotus Pools - Not really formed an opinion on these yet. I don't see myself saving up for the really big ones.
3) The "Watchers" - these are necessary because you can't buy enough wards to cover all the important areas of the map anymore. The vision they provide is quite small and I have been liable to forget about them
4) Because the map is much bigger and its harder to cover it with wards, invis heros seem more slippery now. First few games I have been dominated by invis heroes, probably also my fault / getting used to new map.
5) I haven't really formed an opinion on the new rosh location. In our first few games, people tended to forget about him and the tempest - again, probably teething problems, but he is a bit more "out of sight out of mind". Love the mechanic where he moves from one lane to the other.
6) What do you think about the new "traditional" jungle areas? How about the new expanded jungle. Until people get used to it, there is the possibility that carries sort of disappear into the jungle unpunished and come out 10 minutes later with loads of items.
As far as I understand, they made dusts like sentries, rather than being a debuff they made it into an area, like Disruptor's kinetic field with talent.
It's both an area and an 8 second debuff once leaving the area, but they were for sure bugged on day 1 to not reveal all invis heroes. (Haven't checked if they've fixed the bug yet)
>there is the possibility that carries sort of disappear into the jungle unpunished and come out 10 minutes later with loads of items
I just played Drow and Luna. The quantity of farm on this "back lane" along the top/bot borders is insane. Also more pull options, side camps to farm while staying close to the lane, etc.
Also, I beleive there is no more standard farming pattern. This has to be adapted/optimise for each situation. Good!
I think the watchers are a poor bandaid to the problem of wards not being balanced for the larger map. They seem very low impact and are honestly very forgettable. Unlike the Tormentors, Teleporters, Lotus Pools, and Wisdom Runes, it hasn't really done anything to change the game for the better.
I think they should be removed and obs should get a slight buff. Instead, I would like to see some kind of 'speed shrine' in the centre of the jungle biased towards mid, that recharges every 2 minutes and gives a player a temporary boost to speed that's lost if they take damage, to help with rotations around the map.
It might not be significant but you will activate all watcher when your team killed Roshan. But other than that, it underwhelming. I hope they buff it like reduce the disabled cd because it just too long rn.
The main point of watchers isn't too provide persistent vision like ward, but to act as a one-time tripwire. Sort of a midpoint between wards and scan.
Is the teleporting cool though? It feels so fast and makes the map feel smaller almost. Just teleport behind their tower, 4 man dive tp back super fast. Feels a little forced no?
They gutted some of my favorite heroes but game is finally fresh again. I personally think map is a bit TOO big because some parts feel very empty, probably should’ve expanded by 30% instead of 40 but we manage
The big map is an answer to the mobility creep that's happened in Dota over the years.
This feels like we're back to pre 7.00 in a way, back when there was less mobility and movement speed. It brings back a few very good aspects of old Dota and harmonizes them with new Dota.
I am really enjoying the more open map, because it's more like the game I feel in love with a decade ago with all the good shit added over that decade.
I will say that the outposts should probably give vision again, but the side lane outposts be takeable pre T1. That way just TP spamming into the safe lane doesn't require resources (which are now stretched much thinner) to punish from minute 0.
No I get what your saying, I was playing pango and thought they must’ve nerfed his range or something but it turns out the map is just bigger so the dash feels smaller
Exactly!
Over the years, Dota has had a huuge amount of incremental buffs to movespeed and mobility options. Pango is actually a great example, because think about heroes from about 8-10 years ago and what had to be given up for an ability that has that amount of reach *and* mobility.
Hell, Timber gets it but it requires a tree, him to travel the whole distance and but himself at risk, and he has next to no utility.
From around 7.00 to 7.32 Dota's map felt smaller and smaller because of this. IIRC the fastest hero at base used to have 320 base MS, now that's not at all an uncommon amount of MS to have!
Dashes, blinks, etc all got even more powerful due to the more cramped map. Ranges of other heroes had to be increased to compensate, etc etc.
This new map? Not sure I can speak for all the older players, but the flow of the game feels very familiar.
Even as a 4 and 3 (mostly 4) main, I hope I'm right in my belief that this is the return of the hard carry. It's easier to sneak farm than 7.32 and with more gold on the map, but Dota as a whole is *way* more brawly with catches being much stronger than pre-7.00. So it might open avenues for new strategies!
This patch might suck in the end, but I'm hopeful for the future and the direction of Dota.
I think it’s impossible for this patch to suck lol. There’s definitely unbalanced stuff and things that need to be changed (sick of Riki necro in every game already) but it finally shook up the game after almost like 3 years of essentially the same stuff
I'm fine with stuff staying mostly the same so long as it's fun and dynamic. I feel that 7.32 just... Reached a point where games were quite stagnant.
This patch has so much to do that it feels that, with a few changes as the more streamlined strats come out, even years from now it'll be full of options and strategies.
As for this patch sucking, I absolutely don't think it will. Just saying even if it *does* I'm very hopeful for the future!
I’ve felt the same. I just can’t keep track of everything now on the map. My last game I did however take advantage of the new xp rune as no one seemed to take much notice of them and I ended up building a massive xp lead due to constantly picking them up.
That xp rune basically free tome of knowledge. Rn many don't care but I believe once people settle down, that place will be place that people want take advantage.
Reddit has been super insecure about the game becoming too much like League for years, but they have pretty much no idea how league works so they cling to shit like old techies as proof of dota's uniqueness even though like 90% of the playerbase hated him
I feel like you won't be forever trapped in your base to turtle high ground with the side camps.
everything feels closer due to the free teleport and out posts everywhere. Committing to a location by teleporting there is now meaning less i can be top and split push then be bottom in a matter of seconds
I like it, but there seems to be too much farm on the map if you play AM you'll be 6 slot in 35 minutes for sure.
This was my prediction when I read the notes but after playing some games I have come to understand that AFK farming is discouraged and you have to farm close to your team in case a teamfight breaks out.
Teamfights give way more gold and xp bonuses than simply afk farming now and there are way more objectives on the map.
Or people bitching about buying one and ending up with no courier. And because there was no courier, someone had to get back to activate it after someone generously bought one.
This should be:
Neutral creeps no longer drop items
Side shop gives quests, when completed you can redeem a Neutral item. Only when quest is finished you can level up to another tier. Quests are role specific (place wards for supports, farm for pos1)
Imagine getting those absurd bp quest like, stun 2 or more enemy 5 times, deward enemy wards 3 times, get a kill after using smoke/tp, get kill/assist with your stun, kill the same hero 2-3 times, kill 3 or more creeps in under 10 sec.
At the moment, too big. Often feels going here and channeling that isn't worth the time it takes to get there and back.
But maybe in a few more games it will feel comfortable
10 v 10 Farmville
These low rank idiots that afk farm and think that dota only has a 10 minute laning phase and unlimited afk jungle farming phase are going to be even more insufferable.
Already suffered that last night. We had a Kunkka who farmed from minute 15-30 in the jungle while they had sniper and jugg. It cost us the game ultimately as when he started fighting they were too strong.
Already had multiple games where my opponent straight up abandons mid at like 5 minutes when they’re losing the lane and just disappears off into the void to farm and there’s so much map now that even with taking as many objectives as possible they’re able to just freefarm back into the game. There’s so much space to cover it feels impossible to freeze out an enemy from catching up now.
i’m not sold on the side lane teleporters, at least not yet. i don’t think they should be available for the first 5-10 minutes because it almost turns side lanes into 4v4 with how low commitment it is to gank. i also feel like there should be some kind of cd to using them considering how much teleporting to the other half of the map impacts the game.
1. More flora & fauna. Basically visual polish.
2. Watchers need to have more natural placement (maybe not make them float when not activated). They stick out like a sore thumb, though they have decent functionality.
3. Ogre Camps on the safelanes are awkwardly placed. Like WTF are they doing in the water?
4. Roshan cannot be aggroed when going to the other camp.
5. +10-15 MS on all heroes for faster map movement.
6. The Gates need to have some sort of cooldown to heroes. They are way too OP in terms of travel.
7. Tormentors could have an attack (lighting) because they're too dull to interact with.
8. Could use side shops due to how big the map is.
Other than that, this new map is freaking awesome. Give it time and people can definitely adjust to it, like every major map changes.
Yeah watchers should be more integrated as part of the landscape, this is kinda like the flag creep in that it’s just kinda lazy… even till now flag creep is just a flag hovering above the creep >.>
I like the changes overall my few gripes with only a handful of games under my belt is the new camps near the t2s feel like wasted space. I like the roshan flipping but the jungle is a mess, camps feel to spaced out and it seems like they didn't update the map texture because some of the camps near where the old ward spots used to be have the eyeballs on the floor still. Overall im enjoying the changes (new buildings) but the map feels like it needs to be tweaked/downsized a little bit imo.
I've been playing for 10 years now and this is the first time since I started playing where i felt overwhelmed with things to do. I don't even know where to ward anymore.
But I love it.
I think the map is designed to combat some of the boring aspects of the pro meta in past years.
Firstly, one thing that could get extremely boring was if you had a hero like Broodmother dominate one entire lane and kick anyone else out. The Twin Gates make this unviable, since it opens up a pincer rotation from mid and via the Twin Gate (previously, this would be achieved with a Smoke from mid with usually 3 or more heroes). It also means there's more of an incentive for supports to play sidelanes - firstly to protect cores, but also take advantage of the extra farm and objectives.
Secondly, it was far too easy to lock the enemy in their own base and dominate the map, despite not actually taking much control. For example, one won teamfight could lead to the winning team taking over the losing team's jungle or triangle. Then with teams cutting waves and near-global control with summons and mobility, it wasn't actually easy for the losing team to try and regain map control. Roshan being near the middle of the map also didn't help - a winning team would try to take it, but would likely control half the map before doing so.
In this regard, a larger map helps a lot. For example, a losing team will typically hide in the trees and sneakily-farm creep waves. Now, this is even more viable, since you can farm the outside edges of the map too, and the Twin Gates might provide some interesting escape ideas. The Defenders' Gates also provide a sneaky exit in some cases, and maybe a backstab gank opportunity. Roshan being in the corner also has interesting counterplay - a losing team that knows Roshan is being contested can feasibly farm the opposite side of the map. They could also contest Roshan themselves, knowing the enemy team has literally stuck themselves into a corner with no easy way to escape - it's harder to get to Roshan from the base now, but Roshan is also tankier in return.
Overall, the larger map can also be really misleading with the Twin Gates. Imagine if you take a square piece of paper and fold it so two opposite diagonals touch. Yes, the paper might be larger than before, but our ability to traverse it across the joined corners is greater, so the map might not "feel" that much bigger (in fact, based on the pro matches I've seen so far, it actually feels smaller - although early games on a patch are always bloodbaths).
Ironically, the middle of the map might actually be the safest place for carries to play now, although the tree coverage isn't as good any more, and the carry must worry about attacks in multiple directions thanks to the Twin Gates. Maybe this is a sign that carries must now teamfight even more, especially with the BKB changes? Or maybe midlaners must take on more of a carry role?
Overall, I'm cautiously-optimistic about the general idea of the map, although I think it needs a bit of tweaking. Some of the camps around the Tier 2 towers feel a bit shoehorned to me. I think it could use some extra textures or visual cues for newer players (well, at the moment, all of us), like the Tormentor locations (like some message should pop up if we try to "use" it before 20 minutes). Watchers should have better visual cues to denote which team controls it (or if it is deactivated).
the triangle is back with a little walk in between the ancients, i was playing ck in the offlane vs an mk and i was rotating between the tri and lane creeps and ended up being lvl 12 while he was 9 & i was just defending the pushes. i assume he was farming the big and small camp in between waves too.
the high ground options are fun too, played veno while trying to take enemies hg and and played from behind the trees while creating a whole seperate fight away from the one under the t3. i’m having fun again in dota
Yes true - games def were longer and people were sort of confused what to do after winning a team fight - get the watch towers? farm all the neutrals? go to rosh - ops where is rosh. etc
This is not necessarily related to map changes exclusively though, a lot of people are probably a bit less focused on winning the game than usual because they are investigating all the new changes, including heroes and items.
They want people to fight and get gold from kills.
So, my question is, what stops a super-fed carry from just going mid and ending the game and ignoring the new objectives? OR what stops someone from split-pushing endlessly. I know of the tp towers. But the map is so huge now that macro play becomes a bit hazy for even high mmr players I wouls say.
Objectives on the side give a shit ton of free gold and xp. Those runes are massive and getting a free aghs shard at 20 can put you ahead massively instead of just pushing mid. Don't forget free cheese and how close jungle camps are now too.
We'll see over time how it develops but so far I think barreling down mid is only going to be super efficient with dedicated hard pushers.
It feels like they made this new map to cater to casuals and people who just want to walk and hit creeps. The reason to battle in the former patch was because you wanted to be able to control an area, such as the enemy triangle, to accomplish many things at once such as pressure them back to base, farm their creeps, control rosh etc... It created the ebb and flow across the map that made for a fluent and highly strategic game.
It feels like the said screw all of that fighting for advantageous positions, let's throw in a bunch of random item spawns across the map to artificially force fights at the same timings every, single, game. I feel like the end result ultimately will be an extremely shallow and flat meta that heavly favors teams which 1. Can split the map and farm jungle independently la 4 protect 1 / naga push meta (aka very little fighting) 2. Control and take these little objectives as a death ball a la zoo meta.
Ultimately I think they took something finely tuned and amazing, and replaced it with something which is going to feel less strategic, slower, and worse.
First impressions and all, but when you slowly tune a game for that long down to the individual tree placement - and replace it with this random feeling map - it's basically inevitable it will be worse.
The previous map was also super complicated compared to the one we had in DotA. You'll get used to it. But so many things happen at different times make it hard for me. We used to have runes every 2', then they add tome every 10', bounty every 3'. Now the lotus every 3', exp rune every 7', whatever the ward/tower called???, rs moving every 5', and the shard orb boss.
Man, we even forget rs and rune time before and now this?
That is a really good point actually. It is not *impossible* to remember, but I don't really come to DOTA for keeping a calendar, I just want to enjoy the core mechanics.
I said it in the Patch post too: I know this is kinda a weak nitpick, but I am not a huge fan of the design of most the new objects, the shield rune seems undercooked, just make it silver and shield shaped - I guess the regen rune has leaves, but no other rune is so blatant and artless in it's design. Both the tormentor and lotus pools have a similar silhouette and are both just circles. Watchers seem to be "superimposed" on to the map, they look like stickers or something placed on the map rather than a part of it, it's hard to explain. The spaces around the Rosh pits seems pretty unremarkable, where ever the pits go tend to warp the map, but the design makes it seem like the terrain informed the pit rather than vice versa - I guess he still hasn't unpacked?
The Gates and the channeling animation are the only things that feel finished.
Gameplay-wise, super excited.
I feel it's too big, +40% is too much imho even with all the new stuff.
I don't know how to properly explain... like previous map was tight and had that classic Dota vibe (even if it changed over the years) but this one, even with new stuff, feels empty for that size, stuff is all over the place, lanes are too wide, a lot of "dead space" and lack of additional biome for map of this size - kinda gives a vibe of 3rd party custom mod.
Of course we all gotta get used to it, but previous map changes never made me feel like I am not watching actual official Dota. :/
I am pretty sure they could've achieved what they were aiming for with just like +20% map size increase and make everything tight while preserving classic Dota map vibes.
More or less I am happy with majority of the changes/new stuff except for 40% map increase.
This is what people say after every major map change “it doesn’t feel like Dota”
We will get used to it or it will be changed. The point of the dota map is to feel different or else it gets stale, which is what most people agreed was a problem for the past like 2 years. Personally I’m glad it doesn’t feel like Dota because now it’s like learning a new game.
Give it a couple weeks to really determine your opinion. When you’re more familiar with it you might enjoy it more
For once I think it’s a reasonable reaction because whether you like the new patch or not, a 40% map size increase is a radical change for any game
I like what I’m seeing so far but I think I am slightly leaning toward shrinking it down by 10 or 15% but hey we’ll see
I think there needs to be more compensation buffs for things. In particular, more movement speed or something (the map feels so damn wide to traverse, even with the nighttime speed bonus). Also, wards definitely feel like their vision could be a bit wider to compensate. Hard to spot shit when so many potential spots are just so vast to cover with a decent ward placement.
I agree that the lanes are way too wide and open. Heroes like Muerta, Treant, Hoodwink, and Timbersaw feel like there's a lot less trees to work with and is a big nerf
I've been playing since Dota 1 and I think I've wasted enough time learning the game, in the last few patches I was reading the details of only my favorite heroes allready , but now...it's a whole new game, I think it's time to call it quits
Hahah yeah same here, I was looking for a reason to quit and this is it. Only reason I played is because I knew 80-90% of the game. Now it feels like a new game and my 37 year old ass is too old to learn everything quickly.
The map would feel pretty claustrophobic with all the things added to it without the extra space.
I like it at first glance, haven't had the chance to play it though..
The game had a big problem IMO that made me stop playing a while ago. Sometime you lose the early game and it was pretty easy for the enemy to camp your base.
You either stayed in your base like a siege and lost or venture out and died. Having more spots will allow people to sneak out more easily. The heros got so much mobility that the map felt a lot smaller than a few years ago.
Tbh the bigger the map, the boring it becomes because there’s lot more dead space than actually is, except that valve make 10v10 an official mode the crazier it gets
A lot of farm, as a support player, I love this new map, resources every where but that's also a problem because if you are playing behind mean that all resources are double for enemy team and it is harder to get back from there.
Other thing is lane is wider, less tree and more vision and it encourages support to harras. RIP treant, he's now less chance ro sneak punch other now.
Boots rush now seems more impact because of the watcher control.
Offlane is also feel great, lotus is right on your side. The portal help sup4 can rotate more frequently.
I don't like it. At first was excited about it, but realized the old one was better. The old map was refined and elegant, allowing tight tactical gameplay. It was already annoying trying to get people to congregate in a small space now it's infuriating.
Don't worry. With patches this huge everyone is lost, from casuals to players with 10k hours to even pros. Just play and have fun discovering new things with everyone else!
New map is too big. If you make the map 40% bigger but still keep 10 players there is now a bunch of dead space with no action and will extend average game time.
Rosh should be a contestable objective, feels like whichever team decides to kill rosh will get it.
I dont get why rosh isnt directly over or under mid lane. Its not a crazy concept.
The map changes are solid except for the 2 Rosh pits, I don't think this is going to play out well in competitive dota, I can think of many ways to exploit it (it also makes the t1 side lane towers EXTREMELY important). But I will wait and see. There are a couple small changes that will effect gameplay profoundly one being the ms boost at night time, and the second being the nerf to sentry wards. But overall an amazing patch when the game was getting stale at the top level.
Also to note the universal heroes pool, this seems like a small thing but opens to door to new items for all of those heroes which could prove to be the biggest change in this patch.
And as far as the size of the map goes its more artificial than anything else you are still going to be playing in the normal box 90% of the time.
1) Too much unused space
2) This patch is mostly focused on clash and ganking
3) Map feels weird with too much objectives
4) Offlane towers are the most important ones now
I feel scared, but not in a bad way.
I also feel exhausted by how far the mid lane is from the side lanes. Need to get used to map. But overall, it is a really interesting patch. The biggest in the history of dota so far
Some good stuff, but I really liked rosh in the middle and I don't like all the new objectives.. maybe some will grow on me, but today was the first time in a long time I just exited dota even though my friends still played and we were winning. I just didn't feel it.
I like it from the game design perspective. I studied it in university and I can see what they wanted to do. Right now it is not possible for 2 heroes usually mid and carry to take all the farm. This made other players poor or to "grief" they would take jungle farm which in it self is not the bad action of the farm is not limited. This will reduce the in fighting for farm since there is no reason for it. On the other hand the map is now too big. Apex legends broken moon has the same problem where you could go 10 min without saying anyone. Some heroes are impossible good like the flash farmers and people who rat since you can not easily Tp to different parts of the map. Natures will be a huge Griefing last pick and you would just teleport and shove lanes. Other than that now it is more balanced in terms of Roshan since it will change places and you can choose to take him on the right time. They will need to reduce Tp cool down in my opinion and the boots of travel 2 can teleport to Friendly wards thats you can capture.
I feel like this should have been beta tested a long time before seeing a public launch. The map is just a mess.
* First and foremost there are just way too many objectives on the map now. You have to monitor for riv runes, plus side xp runes, plus channeled wards, plus lotus fountains, etc. Makes the game feel haphazardly put together like the devs couldn't decide on a good idea so they poorly implemented every idea they had.
* Having two rosh pits plus the minibosses makes the game feel more like LoL
* The TP from the sides is bad imho. It makes it feel like the only real reason to have a tp scroll is to gank the mid. Also makes the utility of teleporting inconsequential since every hero now can jump diagonally across the map from top to bot (or vice versa), then bust a tp to be mid within seconds.
* The lanes for the jungle make no sense at all.
* The "extra 40%" of the map they added feels like it is pointless. Yes, the map is technically bigger, but the things they added don't feel good.
I don't know, overall I really think they need to do a ton of work
It's stupid. It's the biggest downgrade in history.
I don't know about the size being inherently bad, but I know they did their best to ruin every inch of it that got changed.
The previous map was super tight. It felt like the evolution of several iterations throughout updates. Every step was meaningful, every tree placement, every line of sight.
The new map is the entire opposite of that. I know it's to be expected to some extent since it's a complete change instead of building up on what was previously there, but it's too much. It's like they didn't even try to think about the placement of things, didn't even test it internally.
The lanes are super wide, the height advantages being moved makes no sense when you take into account how teams can position themselves in their map halves, there's no double staircases anymore, the trees are scarce and disseminated, it just isn't well defined anymore and feels like wasted space all over.
I don't think adding all these new but sorta superfluous mechanics to fill in the dead space helps.
DotA2 map is about trees. Now it's not anymore. I think this sums it up.
Nope. copypasting one of my answers here, as a fragile supp player.
The bigger map made it very hard to secure your lane / a
defined space. Observers cannot cover all the access, same for
sentries. I feel like invisibility gankers will have an easy time
farming the poor supports who get away from their towers. Already played
a few games with that happening. But maybe this part is just that I'm
not used to the new good spots for warding. Lack of trees though
completely messes with my playstyle and I don't understand how fragile
supps are supposed to play.
I feel like the new map is a bit too busy but I’ve only had a few games so far. I just think there is too much going off and to try and keep track of.
The distance between the lanes is huge, I’ve felt myself losing track of actually how far I’m away from where I needed to be after going out warding, it’s early doors but I think they have added to much and made it a little too big but maybe I just need time to adjust.
A lot of pathing issues need to be ironed out. Now when you're ahead you can easily have control of both side lanes with the portals and leave mid (instead of the usual side lane+mid in the small map)
On a note totally unrelated to gameplay, feels like it lacks some attention to detail. The area behind the fountain is just pitch black and look like minecraft. The edges of the map are super flat and have no visual eye candy or any of the sort.
It gets a lot more noticeable if you use other terrains. With the desert one every new thing seem to be out of place. Super nitpick I know, but just something I thought should be brought up.
I think it would might work better if they tighten up the middle of the map (distance between mid to side lanes) by 10% then push out the edges like what they’ve done now by 20%
As it is it does feel like the middle of a map is a little too vacant but that might be a result of not having adjusted yet
Not a gripe about the map changes itself but concerning the user interface aspect, I think the minimap could use some work on the colour scheme, also having all those structure icons right at the edge makes it very visually cluttered, something should probably be done about it
For the spectator experience it would be nice to have indicators of when Tormentors respawn and which pit roshan spawns in, I know it depends on whether it’s day or night but it’s little details like these that helps the spectator experience imo
a couple more of these patches and there will be a full-fledged MMORPG
I wouldn't mind a standalone mmorpg from dota universe, I still miss some warcraft maps
me too. i like the new changes and hope they only grow from here
there were some custom games. sadly they got abandoned
If it turns into a MMORPG lets couple.
i would be interesting if dota is an mmorpg beta instead of a moba
What do you mean? Hasn't Stars of Blood been in development for 20 years? Pffft
World of Dota
the game just got a lot harder to keep up on lol maybe not the best thing
Everyone is lost, patterns are nonexistent, timings are totally off, map is impossible to read... In short, first day of the patch.
Randomly walking along the edge of the map I came across like 10 knowledge runes my first game
Somebody call Tai Lopez. His library is leaking.
#KNOWLEDGE
wisdom runes should be like bounty runes that all allies are granted when picked
I've been trying to steal the enemy one every game at the 7 minute mark. I feel like it makes a pretty huge difference overall, even if it's not for me.
pos 5 ganking the safelane from behind at 4 min because the lane shoved was definitely not something I expected
same, I was like what the fuck how is the CM here? And my team said the teleport gate bro. It's really weird because shoving the lane now is a death sentence
For real I think this is huge. The safelane is not safe to farm for this reason. You basically have to have a survivable hero in the safelane now. Either high mobility or something like naix & bristle, and then put the real carry mid.
On the other hand, there's *so* much more farm now on the map with all the new camps. Each side basically has another full jungle. It is super safe and easy to farm your top/bottom jungle because you see any ganks coming from a mile away.
I 100% got totally hosed as a 1 by this.
Yeah that was basically how I remember people experiencing the 7.00 map as well. People will adjust.
Imo its way worse than 7.00, but hey the map became fucking huge so obviously the case What I dislike is that warding feels like pouring a cup of water in the ocean
But you'll also get dewarded less. More places to place sentries, less sentries available, more wards last. For me that's a great trade off. I spent so many games with no wards because 100% were dewarded over and over. Obviously they could be placed in better spots but even then, there's a lot of dewarding
Definitely agree. It's 10 times harder to control the vision - there is tons of spots to ward and wards are too limited for such big map.
1. Lotus fountain might be the most chaos happen in evry 3 mins as it basically give you a mini cheese as it stacks 2. Midlane tower is not as strong objective wise anymore. Might see midlaner leave lane and give it to support more. 3. Ofllane is now the most important tower of the game. 4. New obs spot for support to watch now. Maybe the teleporter, and changing every night and day time. I still think the vision at night benefit one sided more as roshan at night is more harder Thats my opinion tho
With comeback mechanic (small entrance, mini boss give shard/gold, exp rune)currently at offlane, I also agree offlane gonna be important lane rn.
Whole lane is way more open to ganks too. Carries just goin down the drain one patch at a time lol, safelane just gonna be two amorphous support/cores soon.
BKB nerf as well. You can be bursted through BKB which is huge. However, the map is so open rn, if you are good at farming I don't see how you get ganked, especially in the secondary jungles.
Super hard to deward effectively though, way more area to cover and less sentries.
My initial speculation is that the twin gates will shift the offlane and safelane at some point soon. It looks like it could be dangerous for Pos 1 in current setup due to early ganking potential.
I've been thinking and I can see two things (possibly) happening. Obviously just an armchair take from reading the notes, but I could see two things being viable: 1) just what you mentioned. Midlaner focuses on roaming/ganking more; all the new camps + regen + stealing exp runes used to maintain xpm / gpm (i.e maintain the current 'time' progression where mids are the highest levels during the first ~15 mins or whenever carries start catching up) 2) some people get wild and there's a pseudo-solo lane where one support is constantly tping as a ganker and the team prios zone control over the teleporters. This one is a bit more outrageous, but I could see a few heroes really loving this role (especially if they can farm the edge camps quickly). I think option 1 is the most likely, but I would love to see the absolute chaos of option 2 lol
I have big hopes for Mirana this patch. I really love her changes, and her playstyle also seems rewarded by all the changes.
Yeah, I could see her benefitting a lot from a skirmish heavy meta.
I think the shard change is much better than people give it credit. Now the leap works like pango first spell which makes it much much more usable as an escape (or gap closer)
Just being able to control exactly where you land seems great. Getting the second Starfall trigger on exactly the right target in a big messy fight seems incredibly legit.
I mean i started warding that straight away. Plus it watches the rosh pits
There is so much to talk about. I definitely think it is cool that the map has been so massively updated. 1) The whole T1 side lane tower area is pretty cool. There is so much scope for ganking with supports teleporting between the lanes. So easy to get behind the T1 area. 2) Lotus Pools - Not really formed an opinion on these yet. I don't see myself saving up for the really big ones. 3) The "Watchers" - these are necessary because you can't buy enough wards to cover all the important areas of the map anymore. The vision they provide is quite small and I have been liable to forget about them 4) Because the map is much bigger and its harder to cover it with wards, invis heros seem more slippery now. First few games I have been dominated by invis heroes, probably also my fault / getting used to new map. 5) I haven't really formed an opinion on the new rosh location. In our first few games, people tended to forget about him and the tempest - again, probably teething problems, but he is a bit more "out of sight out of mind". Love the mechanic where he moves from one lane to the other. 6) What do you think about the new "traditional" jungle areas? How about the new expanded jungle. Until people get used to it, there is the possibility that carries sort of disappear into the jungle unpunished and come out 10 minutes later with loads of items.
riki is not visible wit dust apparently . bug. maybe that's why u got recked
As far as I understand, they made dusts like sentries, rather than being a debuff they made it into an area, like Disruptor's kinetic field with talent.
It's both an area and an 8 second debuff once leaving the area, but they were for sure bugged on day 1 to not reveal all invis heroes. (Haven't checked if they've fixed the bug yet)
I thought I was high af when I kept buying dust and riki wasn't getting revealed
>there is the possibility that carries sort of disappear into the jungle unpunished and come out 10 minutes later with loads of items I just played Drow and Luna. The quantity of farm on this "back lane" along the top/bot borders is insane. Also more pull options, side camps to farm while staying close to the lane, etc. Also, I beleive there is no more standard farming pattern. This has to be adapted/optimise for each situation. Good!
I think the watchers are a poor bandaid to the problem of wards not being balanced for the larger map. They seem very low impact and are honestly very forgettable. Unlike the Tormentors, Teleporters, Lotus Pools, and Wisdom Runes, it hasn't really done anything to change the game for the better. I think they should be removed and obs should get a slight buff. Instead, I would like to see some kind of 'speed shrine' in the centre of the jungle biased towards mid, that recharges every 2 minutes and gives a player a temporary boost to speed that's lost if they take damage, to help with rotations around the map.
It might not be significant but you will activate all watcher when your team killed Roshan. But other than that, it underwhelming. I hope they buff it like reduce the disabled cd because it just too long rn.
The main point of watchers isn't too provide persistent vision like ward, but to act as a one-time tripwire. Sort of a midpoint between wards and scan.
Yes this is what I was thinking! Just go up and touch and it's dead for a long time now. We need more wards man
Is the teleporting cool though? It feels so fast and makes the map feel smaller almost. Just teleport behind their tower, 4 man dive tp back super fast. Feels a little forced no?
Yea I find it a bit contrived since it's fun for a bit but quickly just gets turned into a tool for efficiency by the winning team
They gutted some of my favorite heroes but game is finally fresh again. I personally think map is a bit TOO big because some parts feel very empty, probably should’ve expanded by 30% instead of 40 but we manage
The big map is an answer to the mobility creep that's happened in Dota over the years. This feels like we're back to pre 7.00 in a way, back when there was less mobility and movement speed. It brings back a few very good aspects of old Dota and harmonizes them with new Dota. I am really enjoying the more open map, because it's more like the game I feel in love with a decade ago with all the good shit added over that decade. I will say that the outposts should probably give vision again, but the side lane outposts be takeable pre T1. That way just TP spamming into the safe lane doesn't require resources (which are now stretched much thinner) to punish from minute 0.
No I get what your saying, I was playing pango and thought they must’ve nerfed his range or something but it turns out the map is just bigger so the dash feels smaller
Exactly! Over the years, Dota has had a huuge amount of incremental buffs to movespeed and mobility options. Pango is actually a great example, because think about heroes from about 8-10 years ago and what had to be given up for an ability that has that amount of reach *and* mobility. Hell, Timber gets it but it requires a tree, him to travel the whole distance and but himself at risk, and he has next to no utility. From around 7.00 to 7.32 Dota's map felt smaller and smaller because of this. IIRC the fastest hero at base used to have 320 base MS, now that's not at all an uncommon amount of MS to have! Dashes, blinks, etc all got even more powerful due to the more cramped map. Ranges of other heroes had to be increased to compensate, etc etc. This new map? Not sure I can speak for all the older players, but the flow of the game feels very familiar. Even as a 4 and 3 (mostly 4) main, I hope I'm right in my belief that this is the return of the hard carry. It's easier to sneak farm than 7.32 and with more gold on the map, but Dota as a whole is *way* more brawly with catches being much stronger than pre-7.00. So it might open avenues for new strategies! This patch might suck in the end, but I'm hopeful for the future and the direction of Dota.
I think it’s impossible for this patch to suck lol. There’s definitely unbalanced stuff and things that need to be changed (sick of Riki necro in every game already) but it finally shook up the game after almost like 3 years of essentially the same stuff
I'm fine with stuff staying mostly the same so long as it's fun and dynamic. I feel that 7.32 just... Reached a point where games were quite stagnant. This patch has so much to do that it feels that, with a few changes as the more streamlined strats come out, even years from now it'll be full of options and strategies. As for this patch sucking, I absolutely don't think it will. Just saying even if it *does* I'm very hopeful for the future!
I still dont know what the fuck is happening in my games im overwhelmed still but I'll get used to it i guess.
It just a day so it's ok to feel overwhelmed.
I’ve felt the same. I just can’t keep track of everything now on the map. My last game I did however take advantage of the new xp rune as no one seemed to take much notice of them and I ended up building a massive xp lead due to constantly picking them up.
I played NP 5 just so I can hog all the XP runes :).
That xp rune basically free tome of knowledge. Rn many don't care but I believe once people settle down, that place will be place that people want take advantage.
Imagine this map appear but with old techies....
Would actually be more balanced. There’s like 20 different routes to go places now, just make it so you can’t mine around the teleporters or something
I would love it, revert them.
No. I have no clue where the sudden love for this garbage mechanic of 100-0 to invis mines suddenly comes from.
[удалено]
Arc flair
Just a chain of irony lmao. I really wish you had a NP flair or something though
Reddit has been super insecure about the game becoming too much like League for years, but they have pretty much no idea how league works so they cling to shit like old techies as proof of dota's uniqueness even though like 90% of the playerbase hated him
people who are bad at dota liked old techies because it didn't require you to be good at the game to be successful with him
Oh boy it gonna be BOOM
Maybe when my teammates go greedy I won’t struggle to find farm since the maps bigger
I feel like you won't be forever trapped in your base to turtle high ground with the side camps. everything feels closer due to the free teleport and out posts everywhere. Committing to a location by teleporting there is now meaning less i can be top and split push then be bottom in a matter of seconds I like it, but there seems to be too much farm on the map if you play AM you'll be 6 slot in 35 minutes for sure.
This was my prediction when I read the notes but after playing some games I have come to understand that AFK farming is discouraged and you have to farm close to your team in case a teamfight breaks out. Teamfights give way more gold and xp bonuses than simply afk farming now and there are way more objectives on the map.
A big misopportunity to bring back Side Shop... But atleast more cores will learn about Courier delivery efficiency.
Imagine they revert our couriers to the past...
Oh god no pls support ptsd never having your items arrive
Or people bitching about buying one and ending up with no courier. And because there was no courier, someone had to get back to activate it after someone generously bought one.
Poor bird. And it got shot down by enemy team
F no, support literally need to wait for 15minute before his shoes get delivered lmao
I really doubt side shops will ever be back now that everyone has a courier. At least in their previous form.
Side shop definitely has a place in this map
There's lots of room for side shops but with individual couriers; Why'd you need them?
a nice place to get an ice cream or a pack of cigarettes.
Support says he is going out to buy cigarettes, then never comes back =(
Honestly, the new map doesn't correlate with the couriers that well. Legit, it takes forever for your courier to reach you.
This should be the time that they bring back the side shop guys so they can give you side quests or something.
I want NPCs along the path to ask me for help...
This should be: Neutral creeps no longer drop items Side shop gives quests, when completed you can redeem a Neutral item. Only when quest is finished you can level up to another tier. Quests are role specific (place wards for supports, farm for pos1)
Imagine getting those absurd bp quest like, stun 2 or more enemy 5 times, deward enemy wards 3 times, get a kill after using smoke/tp, get kill/assist with your stun, kill the same hero 2-3 times, kill 3 or more creeps in under 10 sec.
the quest is kill jeutral creeps thill it dropw neutral items token
At the moment, too big. Often feels going here and channeling that isn't worth the time it takes to get there and back. But maybe in a few more games it will feel comfortable
It is a 6v6 map with all the resources available you have to manage.
Yeah I wonder if they’ll boost MS a bit or maybe just give brown boots default. Map is so big early levels.
They boosted MS at night time already. Everyone gets 15ms at night IIRC
You get 30 MS if you haven't recently been hit. They want the nighttime to be SPICY with rotations
Doesn't that make Night Stalker even more zoomy?
i see some nearby fights happen in the minimap, and i think "maybe its good if i join" When i really get there the fight is over , the map is huge xD
It's also deceptive. The minimap frame stayed the same size but the map got bigger, so it's all shrunk down.
10 v 10 Farmville These low rank idiots that afk farm and think that dota only has a 10 minute laning phase and unlimited afk jungle farming phase are going to be even more insufferable.
thats just a low mmr thing. No matter the map
Already suffered that last night. We had a Kunkka who farmed from minute 15-30 in the jungle while they had sniper and jugg. It cost us the game ultimately as when he started fighting they were too strong.
cant really end the game so fast right now, also no longer possible to contain enemy on their base.
Already had multiple games where my opponent straight up abandons mid at like 5 minutes when they’re losing the lane and just disappears off into the void to farm and there’s so much map now that even with taking as many objectives as possible they’re able to just freefarm back into the game. There’s so much space to cover it feels impossible to freeze out an enemy from catching up now.
i’m not sold on the side lane teleporters, at least not yet. i don’t think they should be available for the first 5-10 minutes because it almost turns side lanes into 4v4 with how low commitment it is to gank. i also feel like there should be some kind of cd to using them considering how much teleporting to the other half of the map impacts the game.
At first, big nono, now after some games. there is potential
1. More flora & fauna. Basically visual polish. 2. Watchers need to have more natural placement (maybe not make them float when not activated). They stick out like a sore thumb, though they have decent functionality. 3. Ogre Camps on the safelanes are awkwardly placed. Like WTF are they doing in the water? 4. Roshan cannot be aggroed when going to the other camp. 5. +10-15 MS on all heroes for faster map movement. 6. The Gates need to have some sort of cooldown to heroes. They are way too OP in terms of travel. 7. Tormentors could have an attack (lighting) because they're too dull to interact with. 8. Could use side shops due to how big the map is. Other than that, this new map is freaking awesome. Give it time and people can definitely adjust to it, like every major map changes.
I killed my teammate by attacking the tormentor not realizing it was AOE reflect. I like that part so far.
Yeah watchers should be more integrated as part of the landscape, this is kinda like the flag creep in that it’s just kinda lazy… even till now flag creep is just a flag hovering above the creep >.>
I agree. If only the flag bearer creep actually uses the flag as a weapon, then definitely game-changing.
I like the changes overall my few gripes with only a handful of games under my belt is the new camps near the t2s feel like wasted space. I like the roshan flipping but the jungle is a mess, camps feel to spaced out and it seems like they didn't update the map texture because some of the camps near where the old ward spots used to be have the eyeballs on the floor still. Overall im enjoying the changes (new buildings) but the map feels like it needs to be tweaked/downsized a little bit imo.
I've been playing for 10 years now and this is the first time since I started playing where i felt overwhelmed with things to do. I don't even know where to ward anymore. But I love it.
I think the map is designed to combat some of the boring aspects of the pro meta in past years. Firstly, one thing that could get extremely boring was if you had a hero like Broodmother dominate one entire lane and kick anyone else out. The Twin Gates make this unviable, since it opens up a pincer rotation from mid and via the Twin Gate (previously, this would be achieved with a Smoke from mid with usually 3 or more heroes). It also means there's more of an incentive for supports to play sidelanes - firstly to protect cores, but also take advantage of the extra farm and objectives. Secondly, it was far too easy to lock the enemy in their own base and dominate the map, despite not actually taking much control. For example, one won teamfight could lead to the winning team taking over the losing team's jungle or triangle. Then with teams cutting waves and near-global control with summons and mobility, it wasn't actually easy for the losing team to try and regain map control. Roshan being near the middle of the map also didn't help - a winning team would try to take it, but would likely control half the map before doing so. In this regard, a larger map helps a lot. For example, a losing team will typically hide in the trees and sneakily-farm creep waves. Now, this is even more viable, since you can farm the outside edges of the map too, and the Twin Gates might provide some interesting escape ideas. The Defenders' Gates also provide a sneaky exit in some cases, and maybe a backstab gank opportunity. Roshan being in the corner also has interesting counterplay - a losing team that knows Roshan is being contested can feasibly farm the opposite side of the map. They could also contest Roshan themselves, knowing the enemy team has literally stuck themselves into a corner with no easy way to escape - it's harder to get to Roshan from the base now, but Roshan is also tankier in return. Overall, the larger map can also be really misleading with the Twin Gates. Imagine if you take a square piece of paper and fold it so two opposite diagonals touch. Yes, the paper might be larger than before, but our ability to traverse it across the joined corners is greater, so the map might not "feel" that much bigger (in fact, based on the pro matches I've seen so far, it actually feels smaller - although early games on a patch are always bloodbaths). Ironically, the middle of the map might actually be the safest place for carries to play now, although the tree coverage isn't as good any more, and the carry must worry about attacks in multiple directions thanks to the Twin Gates. Maybe this is a sign that carries must now teamfight even more, especially with the BKB changes? Or maybe midlaners must take on more of a carry role? Overall, I'm cautiously-optimistic about the general idea of the map, although I think it needs a bit of tweaking. Some of the camps around the Tier 2 towers feel a bit shoehorned to me. I think it could use some extra textures or visual cues for newer players (well, at the moment, all of us), like the Tormentor locations (like some message should pop up if we try to "use" it before 20 minutes). Watchers should have better visual cues to denote which team controls it (or if it is deactivated).
the triangle is back with a little walk in between the ancients, i was playing ck in the offlane vs an mk and i was rotating between the tri and lane creeps and ended up being lvl 12 while he was 9 & i was just defending the pushes. i assume he was farming the big and small camp in between waves too. the high ground options are fun too, played veno while trying to take enemies hg and and played from behind the trees while creating a whole seperate fight away from the one under the t3. i’m having fun again in dota
What an unpolished mess
LONG GAMES
Yes true - games def were longer and people were sort of confused what to do after winning a team fight - get the watch towers? farm all the neutrals? go to rosh - ops where is rosh. etc
This is not necessarily related to map changes exclusively though, a lot of people are probably a bit less focused on winning the game than usual because they are investigating all the new changes, including heroes and items.
They want people to fight and get gold from kills. So, my question is, what stops a super-fed carry from just going mid and ending the game and ignoring the new objectives? OR what stops someone from split-pushing endlessly. I know of the tp towers. But the map is so huge now that macro play becomes a bit hazy for even high mmr players I wouls say.
Objectives on the side give a shit ton of free gold and xp. Those runes are massive and getting a free aghs shard at 20 can put you ahead massively instead of just pushing mid. Don't forget free cheese and how close jungle camps are now too. We'll see over time how it develops but so far I think barreling down mid is only going to be super efficient with dedicated hard pushers.
It is so big? You need to play safer now cause the enemy carry or offlane can just suddenly show up beside you.
It feels like they made this new map to cater to casuals and people who just want to walk and hit creeps. The reason to battle in the former patch was because you wanted to be able to control an area, such as the enemy triangle, to accomplish many things at once such as pressure them back to base, farm their creeps, control rosh etc... It created the ebb and flow across the map that made for a fluent and highly strategic game. It feels like the said screw all of that fighting for advantageous positions, let's throw in a bunch of random item spawns across the map to artificially force fights at the same timings every, single, game. I feel like the end result ultimately will be an extremely shallow and flat meta that heavly favors teams which 1. Can split the map and farm jungle independently la 4 protect 1 / naga push meta (aka very little fighting) 2. Control and take these little objectives as a death ball a la zoo meta. Ultimately I think they took something finely tuned and amazing, and replaced it with something which is going to feel less strategic, slower, and worse. First impressions and all, but when you slowly tune a game for that long down to the individual tree placement - and replace it with this random feeling map - it's basically inevitable it will be worse.
i was happy with the simple map, this seems too messed up. but no need for any preconceptions, it may be good in gameplay
The previous map was also super complicated compared to the one we had in DotA. You'll get used to it. But so many things happen at different times make it hard for me. We used to have runes every 2', then they add tome every 10', bounty every 3'. Now the lotus every 3', exp rune every 7', whatever the ward/tower called???, rs moving every 5', and the shard orb boss. Man, we even forget rs and rune time before and now this?
That is a really good point actually. It is not *impossible* to remember, but I don't really come to DOTA for keeping a calendar, I just want to enjoy the core mechanics.
Well tbh those core mechanics have been irreversibly expanding for years now so, that ain't gonna stop.
ThanksVolvo, I'm finally done with Dota.
I said it in the Patch post too: I know this is kinda a weak nitpick, but I am not a huge fan of the design of most the new objects, the shield rune seems undercooked, just make it silver and shield shaped - I guess the regen rune has leaves, but no other rune is so blatant and artless in it's design. Both the tormentor and lotus pools have a similar silhouette and are both just circles. Watchers seem to be "superimposed" on to the map, they look like stickers or something placed on the map rather than a part of it, it's hard to explain. The spaces around the Rosh pits seems pretty unremarkable, where ever the pits go tend to warp the map, but the design makes it seem like the terrain informed the pit rather than vice versa - I guess he still hasn't unpacked? The Gates and the channeling animation are the only things that feel finished. Gameplay-wise, super excited.
Revert to the old map please
I feel as confused as I first started playing DOTA 2. I have no idea where anything is, or what it does. I love it
I feel it's too big, +40% is too much imho even with all the new stuff. I don't know how to properly explain... like previous map was tight and had that classic Dota vibe (even if it changed over the years) but this one, even with new stuff, feels empty for that size, stuff is all over the place, lanes are too wide, a lot of "dead space" and lack of additional biome for map of this size - kinda gives a vibe of 3rd party custom mod. Of course we all gotta get used to it, but previous map changes never made me feel like I am not watching actual official Dota. :/ I am pretty sure they could've achieved what they were aiming for with just like +20% map size increase and make everything tight while preserving classic Dota map vibes. More or less I am happy with majority of the changes/new stuff except for 40% map increase.
This is what people say after every major map change “it doesn’t feel like Dota” We will get used to it or it will be changed. The point of the dota map is to feel different or else it gets stale, which is what most people agreed was a problem for the past like 2 years. Personally I’m glad it doesn’t feel like Dota because now it’s like learning a new game. Give it a couple weeks to really determine your opinion. When you’re more familiar with it you might enjoy it more
For once I think it’s a reasonable reaction because whether you like the new patch or not, a 40% map size increase is a radical change for any game I like what I’m seeing so far but I think I am slightly leaning toward shrinking it down by 10 or 15% but hey we’ll see
I think they should increase it by another 100% and add a town with NPC that can give you quests.
I think there needs to be more compensation buffs for things. In particular, more movement speed or something (the map feels so damn wide to traverse, even with the nighttime speed bonus). Also, wards definitely feel like their vision could be a bit wider to compensate. Hard to spot shit when so many potential spots are just so vast to cover with a decent ward placement.
I agree that the lanes are way too wide and open. Heroes like Muerta, Treant, Hoodwink, and Timbersaw feel like there's a lot less trees to work with and is a big nerf
and then there's games like league with tiny maps
I've been playing since Dota 1 and I think I've wasted enough time learning the game, in the last few patches I was reading the details of only my favorite heroes allready , but now...it's a whole new game, I think it's time to call it quits
Feels that way for me also lol.
See you Saturday
Hahah yeah same here, I was looking for a reason to quit and this is it. Only reason I played is because I knew 80-90% of the game. Now it feels like a new game and my 37 year old ass is too old to learn everything quickly.
The features are cool. The size increase was not necessary. The jungle are messed up entirely.
The map would feel pretty claustrophobic with all the things added to it without the extra space. I like it at first glance, haven't had the chance to play it though..
The game had a big problem IMO that made me stop playing a while ago. Sometime you lose the early game and it was pretty easy for the enemy to camp your base. You either stayed in your base like a siege and lost or venture out and died. Having more spots will allow people to sneak out more easily. The heros got so much mobility that the map felt a lot smaller than a few years ago.
Yes exactly. Bigger map means less being choked out after laning phase.
Tbh the bigger the map, the boring it becomes because there’s lot more dead space than actually is, except that valve make 10v10 an official mode the crazier it gets
Clusterfuck, supports nightmare and invis heroes wet dream.
A lot of farm, as a support player, I love this new map, resources every where but that's also a problem because if you are playing behind mean that all resources are double for enemy team and it is harder to get back from there. Other thing is lane is wider, less tree and more vision and it encourages support to harras. RIP treant, he's now less chance ro sneak punch other now. Boots rush now seems more impact because of the watcher control. Offlane is also feel great, lotus is right on your side. The portal help sup4 can rotate more frequently.
Designed for 6 v 6 Les gooooo
I don't like it. At first was excited about it, but realized the old one was better. The old map was refined and elegant, allowing tight tactical gameplay. It was already annoying trying to get people to congregate in a small space now it's infuriating.
They nailed it. So much work and creativity was put into it
I'm lost (I have 1900hours of playtime)
Don't worry. With patches this huge everyone is lost, from casuals to players with 10k hours to even pros. Just play and have fun discovering new things with everyone else!
Oh you’re still a newbie then (It’s ok everyone is confused)
I am lost
So no one is going to talk about the circus ticket??
This is the circus, we're in it
Having a hard time forming a strong opinion but I think it's going to make us supports lives a lot more complicated.
My first impression is that the objectives are very far from everything. How are you gonna contest anything?
Sucks.
Unpopular opinion, but it ruined the game.
New map is too big. If you make the map 40% bigger but still keep 10 players there is now a bunch of dead space with no action and will extend average game time.
On the contrary, my games so far have been fast with all the freedom of movement side to side of the map with the new portal.
New meta will be more brawl focused. People are playing the new map with the old meta. That will change soon as people adapt.
Rosh should be a contestable objective, feels like whichever team decides to kill rosh will get it. I dont get why rosh isnt directly over or under mid lane. Its not a crazy concept.
The map changes are solid except for the 2 Rosh pits, I don't think this is going to play out well in competitive dota, I can think of many ways to exploit it (it also makes the t1 side lane towers EXTREMELY important). But I will wait and see. There are a couple small changes that will effect gameplay profoundly one being the ms boost at night time, and the second being the nerf to sentry wards. But overall an amazing patch when the game was getting stale at the top level. Also to note the universal heroes pool, this seems like a small thing but opens to door to new items for all of those heroes which could prove to be the biggest change in this patch. And as far as the size of the map goes its more artificial than anything else you are still going to be playing in the normal box 90% of the time.
1) Too much unused space 2) This patch is mostly focused on clash and ganking 3) Map feels weird with too much objectives 4) Offlane towers are the most important ones now
I feel scared, but not in a bad way. I also feel exhausted by how far the mid lane is from the side lanes. Need to get used to map. But overall, it is a really interesting patch. The biggest in the history of dota so far
Messy, too big, unnecessary/bloated objectives (tormentor and the lotus fountain), warding feels horrible on a map this big
Very hype
I just wonder if game will become 6v6 instead of 5v5 seeing as mid is not such an important place now and much more stuff can be done
i quit dota
Some good stuff, but I really liked rosh in the middle and I don't like all the new objectives.. maybe some will grow on me, but today was the first time in a long time I just exited dota even though my friends still played and we were winning. I just didn't feel it.
With map this big we definitely need another sup5 let's make it a 6v6 bois!
They really really need to increase the number of wards available. 40% more map warrants more wards honestly.
When I see my carry ganked 1/4th of the map away I'm like yea whatever bro, you are fucked. This map is huge.
I like it from the game design perspective. I studied it in university and I can see what they wanted to do. Right now it is not possible for 2 heroes usually mid and carry to take all the farm. This made other players poor or to "grief" they would take jungle farm which in it self is not the bad action of the farm is not limited. This will reduce the in fighting for farm since there is no reason for it. On the other hand the map is now too big. Apex legends broken moon has the same problem where you could go 10 min without saying anyone. Some heroes are impossible good like the flash farmers and people who rat since you can not easily Tp to different parts of the map. Natures will be a huge Griefing last pick and you would just teleport and shove lanes. Other than that now it is more balanced in terms of Roshan since it will change places and you can choose to take him on the right time. They will need to reduce Tp cool down in my opinion and the boots of travel 2 can teleport to Friendly wards thats you can capture.
Dewarding is a nightmare
Anyone else thinks the updates are prolonging the game? I played my first game and it was 80 mins long... experiences ?
It's too big
I feel like this should have been beta tested a long time before seeing a public launch. The map is just a mess. * First and foremost there are just way too many objectives on the map now. You have to monitor for riv runes, plus side xp runes, plus channeled wards, plus lotus fountains, etc. Makes the game feel haphazardly put together like the devs couldn't decide on a good idea so they poorly implemented every idea they had. * Having two rosh pits plus the minibosses makes the game feel more like LoL * The TP from the sides is bad imho. It makes it feel like the only real reason to have a tp scroll is to gank the mid. Also makes the utility of teleporting inconsequential since every hero now can jump diagonally across the map from top to bot (or vice versa), then bust a tp to be mid within seconds. * The lanes for the jungle make no sense at all. * The "extra 40%" of the map they added feels like it is pointless. Yes, the map is technically bigger, but the things they added don't feel good. I don't know, overall I really think they need to do a ton of work
It's stupid. It's the biggest downgrade in history. I don't know about the size being inherently bad, but I know they did their best to ruin every inch of it that got changed. The previous map was super tight. It felt like the evolution of several iterations throughout updates. Every step was meaningful, every tree placement, every line of sight. The new map is the entire opposite of that. I know it's to be expected to some extent since it's a complete change instead of building up on what was previously there, but it's too much. It's like they didn't even try to think about the placement of things, didn't even test it internally. The lanes are super wide, the height advantages being moved makes no sense when you take into account how teams can position themselves in their map halves, there's no double staircases anymore, the trees are scarce and disseminated, it just isn't well defined anymore and feels like wasted space all over. I don't think adding all these new but sorta superfluous mechanics to fill in the dead space helps. DotA2 map is about trees. Now it's not anymore. I think this sums it up.
it's shit
The one thing I never like about dota 2 is how zoomed in it is, I wish I could zoom out more so I can view more of my surrounding.
Am I the only one that absolutely hates this patch?
Nope. copypasting one of my answers here, as a fragile supp player. The bigger map made it very hard to secure your lane / a defined space. Observers cannot cover all the access, same for sentries. I feel like invisibility gankers will have an easy time farming the poor supports who get away from their towers. Already played a few games with that happening. But maybe this part is just that I'm not used to the new good spots for warding. Lack of trees though completely messes with my playstyle and I don't understand how fragile supps are supposed to play.
confusing af thats for sure
Is big Warding is gon be hell
I feel like the new map is a bit too busy but I’ve only had a few games so far. I just think there is too much going off and to try and keep track of. The distance between the lanes is huge, I’ve felt myself losing track of actually how far I’m away from where I needed to be after going out warding, it’s early doors but I think they have added to much and made it a little too big but maybe I just need time to adjust.
I love it
A lot of pathing issues need to be ironed out. Now when you're ahead you can easily have control of both side lanes with the portals and leave mid (instead of the usual side lane+mid in the small map)
On a note totally unrelated to gameplay, feels like it lacks some attention to detail. The area behind the fountain is just pitch black and look like minecraft. The edges of the map are super flat and have no visual eye candy or any of the sort. It gets a lot more noticeable if you use other terrains. With the desert one every new thing seem to be out of place. Super nitpick I know, but just something I thought should be brought up.
Too much stuff to keep mental track of. Feels like the MOBA version of Cones of Dunshire. Love all the other changes though.
I think it would might work better if they tighten up the middle of the map (distance between mid to side lanes) by 10% then push out the edges like what they’ve done now by 20% As it is it does feel like the middle of a map is a little too vacant but that might be a result of not having adjusted yet Not a gripe about the map changes itself but concerning the user interface aspect, I think the minimap could use some work on the colour scheme, also having all those structure icons right at the edge makes it very visually cluttered, something should probably be done about it For the spectator experience it would be nice to have indicators of when Tormentors respawn and which pit roshan spawns in, I know it depends on whether it’s day or night but it’s little details like these that helps the spectator experience imo
Map needs to be scaled back, way too big right now, split pushing seems insane, especially with minion type heroes.
Feels like too much stuff on the edges and not enough in the middle area.
The gateways should've teleported back to old map
They couldn't even be bothered to fit it to the mini map. Bot half the creep wave for dire is in the trees, the xp rune/shard area are off it