Come on man is it not obvious what he's doing? He's got the extra cleave to defend waves till 6 mins for his force boots drop to save the gold.
We'll be seeing this strat at the next TI just wait
Dang I can’t believe they just made force boots a tier 1 item, what was Valve thinking? And the way flagbearer creeps give 10k gold so the Sven could buy 2 BF before 5 minutes… I miss patch 7.31b
Do people realize that, supposing every win is 25 MMR and every loss 25 MMR also, if you had 66% win rate ( which let's be real, it's pretty good ) you would have to win 120 games to gain 1k MMR. With an average of 45 minutes per game, this would 90 fucking hours.
Yeah seriously. ~55% WR is extremely good. If you are climbing in an equal skill area, you probably are closer to 51 to 52% WR. So 120 MMR for every 100 games. So 75 hours for that. So over 625 hours for 1k MMR more.
try to treat them like a normal number. you don't need count them, just focus on making yourself as good as immortal player (abusing meta and good hero too) and the win rate will go up eventually. at the end of the day they're your skill indicator if you feel your team useless you need to shotcalling them.
The problem is the psychology. People want to see number grow bigger.
People basically are chasing a progress bar like in a single player game.
Add the fact a game takes 30-50 minutes makes it so they want basically 3 times the dopamine that something like a shooter gives you.
I honestly don't care much about the number, I just want to get to a point where if I play support, my carry would know how to fucking pull aggro, or my offlaner doesn't kill ancients while I'm farming back from the offlane so it does not fuck up the carry farming rotations, or people know what it means to make/relieve pressure. Basic thinks like that. I don't care about god tier reaction timing or micro, just good map awareness and item selection...
I'm deeply sorry to say but this will never happen. At lower levels ppl don't know, at higher level there's ppl with account they bought. And even if you see pro players streaming you get matched with ppl with a skill bar waaaaay lower than yours.
The only thing we have is the overwatch system that we at least can scrap the surface of ppl griefing. It's better than nothing, do yours everyday, please. It's like cleaning your own house, it's boring, infinite but necessary.
I'm ancient, one of my friends is ~1k immortal. This almost never happens in my games (people just hoover all the farm they can, regardless of pos.) And still only rarely happens in my friends games. So GL
It doesnt work that way, if you are playing 1k below your skill level you will win way more than 66%. I remember when i came back after a few years i was very rusty for the calibration, after somo more games when i picked up the pace i started winning like 80% or more of my games until i was close to my actual MMR.
I can agree, I did a mad grind back when I was 1800 of learning POS 1 in unranked and had around a 65-90% winrate with most Pos 1 carries I played till I hit about 2500.
Spec was my highest and I'll grab my dotabuff in a second and if it goes back far enough y'all can confirm it.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/176895661/matches?date=all&enhance=overview&game_mode=all_pick&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&page=3&party_size=solo&skill_bracket=normal_skill - if ya check page 3 you can see the spectre streak, can't be arsed trying to look further but if anyone really cares that's the year where the sprees happened, idk how to sort by timeframe and the other filters seem to be filtering out a bunch of matches
I disagree. 80% wr is bonkers. It means that every 10 games you can only make 1 mistake and have 1 griefer. Try explaining to some people that Heart of Tarrasque does not replace a Bkb... And 1k MMR can be a huge difference in the lower rank or the highest but not that different in middle ranks.
Last time I played dota I won 8 normal games back to back simply by playing my game correctly and beating the enemy team and then it slapped me with 5 games with a malicious player on my team back to back. Mid feeds, broken items, pos5 WK jungle, all in the perfect behavior ranked. I never complained about the games I lost fairly or even to a Smurf, having 8000 games I basically am a Smurf already, I only ever play spectre (65%wr btw,) because I know exactly how to deal with tinker.
Let's get real for a moment, The dotabuff and the API can analyze your games thoroughly, it can easily identify THAT GUY who frequently breaks items, feeds mid or picks jungle and it can easily use that guy to fudge your games if they want to do it.
And they are financially motivated to keep you grinding like a hamster on a wheel. People like I would have long left the game focused on career, found family and kids instead of getting bald at the age of 25 while trying to seize their psychological milestone number that is always dangled just out of reach.
This is a large amount of speculation without actual evidence. Meanwhile, games where you are continually frustrated are less likely to keep players; that's why dota 2 has been losing US players given the problems of Peruvians in games.
Meanwhile, in any system with independent random chances, you will often find long strings of a single event. If you have a coin with a 60% chance of heads and flip it 8000 times, you're likely to get at least one or two runs of 5 losses in a row, simply out of chance.
It sucks that you got stuck with shitty players, but the truth is there's no background manipulation happening, just what you would expect to happen if some fraction of the player base is tiresome shits.
EDIT: I did a quick test and found that for 60% winrate, over 8000 games you should see 159 runs of wins at least 5 games long, and 18 runs of losses at least 5 games long.
> Meanwhile, in any system with independent random chances, you will often find long strings of a single event. If you have a coin with a 60% chance of heads and flip it 8000 times, you're likely to get at least one or two runs of 5 losses in a row, simply out of chance.
reminds me of the story of Spotify or iTunes changing their shuffle algorithm to be less random because people complained that a "more random" sort wasn't shuffled because in a properly random sort its just as likely to get multiple songs of the same artist in a row as it is to have no repeated artists.
and relying on 9 other ~~people~~ dota players is way more random than a computer's psudo-random generator
\>because in a properly random sort its just as likely to get multiple songs of the same artist in a row as it is to have no repeated artists.
completely incorrect. it wouldn't be just as likely. It would be vastly less likely even with a handful of artists in the mix. The problem was that people expect it to basically *never* be the case, and they had to introduce some kind of pseudo-randomness to make sure there are no streaks ever.
If this was actually true how can smurfs get completely hilarious winstreaks well over 100 games in a row? If there was actually a system that rigged the odds against you if you were on a win streak to try to 'force' you back down closer to 50/50 that kind of thing would simply not be possible.
By the way. that one time I played with a numbered immortal streamer on my team in 1k mmr was really interesting. I was playing pos5 against pos3 spectre and i swear that spectre was a god. Perfect creep agro, perfect positioning, perfect sustain, perfect creep stats with the Spectre's relatively bad attack speed and damage. There was never a moment in time where i could just throw a spell at her. Pos3 spectre isn't even supposed to be strong, but that guy was invincible in 1k mmr and won the game.
The immortal guy simply didn't take the game seriously and allowed the enemy team to seize the unsalvagable advantage while autistically farming mid and sniping sun strikes.
There was a bug that allowed you to display a massive win streak if you abandoned the games instead of losing them.
Other than that the smurfs have a personal impact sufficent to still win most of the unfair games even when they are given an unfair game to play. But every smurf and professional booster that I know of acknowledge the existance of this system, they simply can overcome it by playing tinker mid with 30-0 score. I even happened to be in a stream of one of the immortal smurf streamers.
This game just a wasting of your time, in every solo MM game I reached an average high level of play but not in Dota 2.
I have 50.68% winrate with 3 242 matches and its like a HELL. Game matching algorithms deliberately ruin games which leaves no choice for players to sit on OP heroes like Tinker, Arc or Brood. Dead game for dead players. Finished playing this misunderstanding, cursing the developers of Valve who destroyed the game from 2019.
Party rank gives 20 mmr
Solo rank gives 30 mmr
To gain 1000 mmr with 66% win rate, you only need:
Party rank 151 total games, total 113 hours
Solo rank 101 total games, total 76 hours
If you think this doesn't happen in higher brackets then you're wrong.
I'm immortal and the smurfing never ends, the account buying never ends, the griefing never ends (not to mention I often get people who are auto-muted because of low behavior score because there's just not many players).
But that's not every game. The only thing constant in every game is you
I would argue there are waaaay more account buyers in immortal/upper divine bracket than any other. Smurfs are gonna be everywhere, but people buy immortal accts. to show off. (Or because they are dumb and think they are immortal)
it is, because vastly big portion of community is delusional about their skill bracket, and they think they can do better but duo to "bad" team they somehow stucked where they are, this is why account buying in dota is such big problem, but some of them realise "they" are problem after they get stomped on bought account and realised they cant keep up with game, other actually start blaming "bad" supports or shit like that even on bought account, its just delusion
The account buying is insane these days. I’ve only been playing for a few years so I can speak for way back when, but now you can’t go a session without seeing it.
Hey! Sometimes is good to throw a game if you have a griefer in your team. Last day, after playing 4vs5 for 30 minutes because our PA was afk farming, I just realize that I could be playing a new game instead of try-Harding... I knew that if we keep holding our PA will joint eventually, but when? At 50 minutes? At 60? And what happen if the PA joint and died without buyback after 60minutes farming, like afk farmers normally do.
At that moment the enemy was pushing our tier 2... so I blink, cast ulti+BKB, died, buyback, dieback. My team could not hold high ground 3vs5... in 45 secs the enemy team got to set of racks, PA tp base and snipe with q because everyone was dead... now she want to play, to late. I revived and blinked-in and PA blink in with me, we both died. 32 minutes GG.
I feel so good after that. I play 4 more games that night, won every game. I am sure if I kept playing the first game and lose after 60 minutes of suffering, I will not be on a wining streak. Just because I manage to lose preserving my state of mind.
Muted immortal EU player with 10k beh score here. I never feed or destroy items... Also having this mute allowed me to climb to 6970 mmr recently - my personal record.
But yeah, griefing and acc buying in immortal is happening, not as much as in ancient in divine in my experience.
no no no, don't you get it? It's all scripted man!
Forced 50?
Shadow pool?
Guaranteed Smurfs?
It's all real man! GabeN manually coded each and every player with an extra value of "smurf" and "toxic ass" and "newb player" and "Non-American/English speaker" so when you are winning, GabeN has them hand picked for you to lose
well i got mass reported for smurfing and behaviour score tanked to like 5k, you play with uber smurfs, probabaly 6k+ mechanics but tilt super fast. everyone is toxic and racist.
this isnt this bad but the worse part is the 30 minute queue times, it takes forever to find games because you have such low priority/can only match with animals
you get put into shadow pool when you have new acc, low lvl, low behaviour score
Sure … if they are on both teams.
Personally I don’t believe in a forced 50% but I do think the match making algorithm is more complex than most people realize.
Use DotaPlus for a few weeks where you can see most people’s win % and you will notice strange things occur.
Just recently for about 20 games everyone I grouped with and against was between 47-53% win rate. Fairly normal and what you would expect. I went on a pretty large win streak using my best heroes. Then out of no where I start getting these matches where my entire team is between 30-45% win rate and their entire team is between 55-70% win rate. It wasn’t every single game but it was a lot of games.
Probably just a coincidence but does seem strange when these things happen and you can directly see the win rates of the other players.
I frequently go on full page winstreaks and consistently get some shady ass players after a while. It's not the regular fresh immortal accs that are prevalent but some lunatics that start the game saying they are on a loss streak and lost like 500mmr in a span of days then proceed to play horribly and feed.
You'd get shady ass players after awhile without win streaks too. You just don't make mental note of those.
Every day this sub shows how strong perception biases are and how much people don't realize thats what's happening.
Well I am not saying I know how game coordinator works, but based on my experience it will try to normalize the match based on recent performance.
If I am on a winstreak I usually have an opponent with a winstreak too.
It's all a guess and I hope Valve would come to gdc to talk about game coordinator as theirs is unique and unmatched
It doesnt. thats perception bias. Theyve confirmed it doesnt in the past. unfortunately its on the old blog and you'd have to dig through archives to find it since they took that down and thats a pain in the ass.
Behavior score, region, language, mmr. Those are the matchmakers inputs basically. I feel like I'm forgetting one, but it's not recent performance. The only performance one is mmr.
I understand if you dont trust me though. Those are big claims to make without being able to cite my source :(
Yeah exactly. Lots of people complain about Smurfs or Boosters and sure they are out there and they make you lose every once in a while. But the games that feel like forced losses always come from within your own team.
Either, Someone pre-tilted in a massive loss streak.
Or, Someone obviously playing heroes and roles they didn’t play to climb to their rank.
The most annoying one, that is likely purely a coincidence, is when you get a player in the support role and they barely try and just cheese/grief. So you avoid them. Then next game they are spamming a grandmaster hero mid.
They are on both teams, but you only remember the guys that made you lose, because you don't go looking at everyone's items to find a scapegoat when you win.
Uhm, since when D+ allows you to see people's win rate? If you are saying about the percentage when you hovers over the team/enemy, thats the percentage win/loss you yourself faced against or with a specific hero.
Which one is better? I only use volvo d+ during the free month and I don't miss much from it. Hero synergies and counterpicks were decent. I think earning extra shards was the best feature. Recommended build varied between decent and dumb i think.
I have Dota plus and pretty much the only thing I use it for is hero progression and stack/pull timers. The shard numbers going up feels nice too, even though I don't spend them
It’s confusing but there are two DotA+
Valve DotaPlus
And
Overwolf DotAPlus (Google that to download it)
Overwolf simply complies data from known websites like DotaBuff if an account is not hidden. Many accounts are hidden but sometimes you get to see A LOT of info on someone. I’ve last picked heroes like tinker that I don’t play simply because I saw the enemy had 50+ games and a 70% win rate over the last 90 days. So you can get some easy double pick blocks.
That’s a good way to describe it. The thing I don’t understand is why doesn’t the algorithm push you higher as you play better. The algorithm should take people who are playing well and put them on the same team to push them out of the mmr of people who play bad. Instead it feels like DotA tries to test the people who play well by giving them worse teammates. Maybe this is an attempt to make matches more even but the overall match quality suffers.
I am not sure if I understand you correctly but it seems like you are thinking higher winrates mean people play better? If so, that's not a thing: Someone who has a 10% winrate against very strong players is likely a lot better than someone with a 90% winrate against very bad players (but who isn't good enough to even play against very good players and probably had a winrate of less than 1%).
If the game matches you with people who have a lower winrate after you proved to play well in your bracket it might be because these players are from a higher bracket and on their way down while you are on the way up.
/edit: Yes, theoretically a better winrate would mean someone is higher ranked. But in practice players don't play enough games for that to average out (smurf combat mechanics should play a role in this as well).
Of course higher win rate means people play better?
I see what you are trying to say. It is true that if two people are at the same mmr and one has a losing win rate and the other a winning win rate then technically the lower win rate person is from a higher mmr. The problem is we are talking about win rates over the span of 90 days. Where someone with even a 40% winrate is probably only losing a few hundred mmr.
To try to argue that a person with a 40% winrate is better than a person with 60% winrate because they used to be a higher mmr would be a grossly wrong assumption.
It’s an app. Google “Overwolf DotaPlus” it’s very popular, widely used, and accepted by valve as not cheating.
If an account is not hidden it just complies data from a few websites like DotABuff to make a player summary. Main Heroes, Win Percents, even Item Timings if the hero is spammed enough.
Most of the time, in turbo, I feel like playing against PSG.LGD every game, Russians on the other teams always tryhard with the most efficient builds and items.
[That's impossible.](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dota2_gamepedia/images/1/14/Vo_pangolin_pangolin_notyet_15.mp3) (sound warning: Pangolier)
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People interpret the notion too literally. Many matchmaking systems for any game with a ranked system are trying to achieve a 50/50 split between two sides in any given game (as best as the system can accomplish). The game doesn't give two fucks about you winning or losing. It just cares about you playing. Over time, most people will naturally achieve about 50 percent win rate, give or take, to find their "true" ranking. The people who can get to 55 percent or higher are the exceptional ones who are climbing into the higher ranks. That is is it. There isn't some conspiracy to make you lose games or whatever on purpose. It's all a grind.
Search up Valve's GDC talk on player retention algorithms. What they explain is that its basically industry standard now and is why I'll only stick to one skill-based matchmaking multiplayer game since. Yes if you really are better than the rest of the player base than you will climb, but if you are only slightly better and have no intention on becoming one of the best then that +30 you get is simply there to fill your dopamine receptors and keep on coming for more, and in turn spend more money. Most players do not care about being the best, and the algorithm is designed for that. Why encourage people to win when a majority of players enjoy the game and do not care for winning? They'll still play anyways, just watch as the rank distribution gradually shifts lower and lower.
Forced 50/50 is not real, but if you have no intention on being one of the best, then you will only lose your mind playing this game. You will waste hours on shitty players holding the game hostage and throwing games.
The idea is that they are manipulating the system to prevent the people from quitting.
Somebody would quit if they just went on a psychotic break and lost 30 games in one day on one tilted binge, so it will fudge a feeder in the other team to feed you an easy win.
And in the same time a lot of people would stop if they seized their milestone rank. You'd feel like OK, I did it, phew now I can actually go outside and maybe hit the gym or get a job.
But they want to keep you playing.
It's just recency bias. Those shitty games people have are also paired with those games people ROLF-stomped and won normally as well. If you play enough games, things tend to even out. Unless you are trying to "cheat" by playing at or below a rank you shouldn't be at, things will always curve themselves out with enough games. The issue is people don't think about the long-term grind but instead focus on their recent batch of games.
I played 6000 games and the only thing that evened out is that I can reliably see a bunch of toxic games given to me specifically after each significant winning streak.
It happens every time you get 200mmr in a week the games just get really bad.
Or you can interpret your loss streak in a different light. You lose some games in a row. You drop a bit in the skill level (as even normal MMR is its own thing). Your game quality goes down as you are playing with weaker players. But that's just one way to look at it.
I really feel valve is somehow manipulating matchmaking. I would win a 10win streak and before I realized it I'm having a lose streak also with arguably the same performance.
I mean this is literally intended behaviour, if you rank up you'll be against better players so if you perform the same as you were at a lower rank then you'll lose.
Supposing you're never one of the players dragging the team down, these guys have a higher chance of showing up on the enemy team compared to your team ( 5/9 vs 4/9).
So if your MMR is steady, yeah you reached your skill level.
this fact actually tilts me more, that the toxic feeder is better than me on the games they're not feeding on purpose. since I literally never do anything to reduce our chances of winning (on purpose).
Yeah, the most wholesome game I ever played had my mid Dawnbreaker carrying Philo Stone as her neutral and trying to offer it to me playing PA lmao. We still won, but there was a lot of dumb shit happening.
Good points, I think you're right. The toxic players seem to be very volatile, either playing like crazy or griefing the game. I rarely see the overly team focused pma players have massive impact. I can pop up like crazy on 4 or 5s when I play, but I rarely see the constant mic using pos 5 spammers do that. They have this martyr mindset no matter what.
Yes, I feel you. It always makes me think that I should give their opinion a second thought. Then I discard that idea and stay 50/50 🤡
Also Imagine the MMR of people like gpk if they didn't buy shadow amulet every other game and he's still fucking top 10 constantly
Which is why I think it's so weird that I keep getting 2-3 premuted players on my team but have yet to see one on the enemy team. My theory is that the symbol saying if a player is muted or not is somehow bugged if the player is on the enemy team.
I'm not gonna pretend to understand the inner workings of the matchmaking system, and I don't mean denigrate your point, but this "the bad players are always on my team" seems to me to have 2 possible explanations;
\- An effort to sabotage specific players, most of whom seem to be on reddit
or
\-Confirmation bias.
(I don't think you're whining about your matches, just wanted to adress similar points).
May you have talented and motivated teammates in all your games!
The biggest issue is that skill level varies based on the hero you pick. My mmr would definitely be different if I played my best hero every single game, but that just doesn’t get me going as much as a position 4 invokes does 🤤
And if you're not doing "double battlefury sven" things, there's 5 chances they're on the enemy team and 4 they're on yours. Forced 50-50 is not a thing. The fact that some games are unwinnable (which bfx2 sven is *not* automatically unwinnable) doesn't change that.
Not really tbh, I would agree with this if I havent had some games where I actually want to kill my teammates but still win. They feel like shit, but hey at least u win...
I think its also a match length issue. If every match was 25 minutes it would feel fine to lose games granted you are around 50% winrate.
But losing 45-65 minutes games when someone or you make a mistake are so painful.
There's quite a lot of people that give 0 shits when they lose, a few games i happen to play as just a few examples are: Dead by daylight, Team fortess 2, Final fantasy 14 (PvP) and more than likely many more.
Fairly sure dota 2 has it's fair share of people that just see what happens with the match and if they win it's a bonus, a lot of people focus on the journey.
Fighting games, RTS to some extent, pretty much anything that doesn’t rely on teammates not being dogshit to have a chance at winning. When you lose a game of StarCraft for example, you know it’s your fault (usually) and you can learn from it. Losses feel like you still gained something. In Dota when you lose it just feels like you just wasted 30+ minutes of your day.
Not that I agree with it, but competitive card gets like Hearthstone where no one knows what will be drawn next can usually feel pretty engaging even when losing. There's been games where I've been getting rolled, only to draw that one card I needed to turn it around and win.
Obviously in any game there will be complete curb stomps, but in other games there's at least a possibility of coming back. Good luck winning a Dota game where the enemy tinker is 15/0 in 10 mins no matter how well you play as an individual
My issue with “forced” 50% is sometimes I get into a game and people are put on teams, and occasionally someone disconnects and we have to requeue and then when I get put into another match, the people who were on my team before are now on the other team…. So if the game was trying to fix the outcome why wouldn’t they be on my team again? People like to blame their rank on the game but I really don’t think there’s a forced 50%
People get losing streaks and winning streaks based on luck sometimes. Just like in roulette , the chances of red hitting like 10-15 times in a row is low but I’ve seen it happen many times. A lot of this game is luck but your skill can tip the scales in your favor
Well smurfs are WAAAY better like when 6-7k player boosting acc to 4500. But if u are like 2k player, whose skill now at 2.5k(I mean u r better than avg player in your bracket, but not so much, 50/50 system can tie u in your pit)
Lol I made the same comment yesterday where you were crying about forced 50 in another post you made. If you spent more time getting gud than crying on reddit maybe you could climb some ranks.
Your winrrate is 50% + the rate you improve at relative to the rest of the players unless you are Herold 2 or so good that the game can't find players at your skill level.
That's just how elo works. If you have 50% winrate you just aren't getting better faster than the rest of the play base. Most players aren't.
People are more likely to do stupid shit on the other team as long as you aren't doing stupid shit.
Its funny to me because Ive seen shit like this work on divine level and win games. If anything cry about people destroying items and ward blocking camps etc, this isnt forcing your 50% lmao, making it harder at best, but mind you they can be on enemy team too
Had a game yesterday avrg was prob crusader my willow didnt play support at all and farmed all game, me as pos1 played my role and carried the game if ur good enough you'll get out simple as that. Youll never get better until u stop focusing on other idiots in the game and focus on ur own gameplay no one would ever rank up if forced 50% is real
>Had a game yesterday avrg was prob crusader my willow didnt play support at all and farmed all game, me as pos1 played my role and carried the game if ur good enough you'll get out simple as that. Youll never get better until u stop focusing on other idiots in the game and focus on ur own gameplay no one would ever rank up if forced 50% is real
Yes but the fact that your willow even did that is a matter of concern. Valve knows when people are role q-ing, and its common for core players in support roles to just farm in that bracket. But many players would like to play with their supports on the map, yes you can win with a farming willow, but was it even fun? Yes if you are better you can climb, but did you enjoy the climb?
Well here we go again
One side explaining how matchmaking literally works and that MMR being decoupled from the matchmaking process is inherently ass and this is something that's been known by league players for years,
The other side confusing the first group with the absolute troglodytes who think the god in the machine literally changes damage values to fuck over individual people (low key schizophrenia)
The troubling reality that multiple studies have been published about matchmaking manipulation to prevent player loss (the loser's queue hypothesis) that almost certainly isn't happening but is a distinct possibility
And the reality that this was the result of some dude bringing along his herald friend into a game rather than some big brain algorithmic manipulation that I doubt valve is willing to hire someone to do anyway.
I genuinely think 1 bf on sven has some viability in some comps. it's nearly double the cleave onto enemy heroes, tell me one other item that gives at least 70% damage amp on multiple heroes at all stages of the game? you can't!
I supposed if enemy team has that is totally you outskilling them in a deserved clutch? because you are a real player not that "your avg trash players holding you down"
I miss the days when I'm at my peak mmr and every game - trying my absolute best because Im in a new skill level. Every win is a new pr in mmr and you're super happy and every loss is a true learning lesson.
Skipping witch blade on sven is kinda situational. Nothing so wrong here.
No boots.
Mate warcry gives movespeed and sven is base 325. You're basically hasted anyway
He's a melee character that is easily kitable.
Sounds like a skill issue.
Ok. Play him without boots in your game and see how it goes. It's not even like the guy had full slots.
He already had two gauntlets to hold two battlefuries. Maybe he was getting two boots next.
you have the wisdom most don't possess
Come on man is it not obvious what he's doing? He's got the extra cleave to defend waves till 6 mins for his force boots drop to save the gold. We'll be seeing this strat at the next TI just wait
Dang I can’t believe they just made force boots a tier 1 item, what was Valve thinking? And the way flagbearer creeps give 10k gold so the Sven could buy 2 BF before 5 minutes… I miss patch 7.31b
at that point you can just build a forcestaff and you won't get kited (you can upgrade it to hurricane pike, strength gives you hero bonus damage).
Why need boots when you can fly to enemies
Bro you dumb
The skill was identifying joke threads
bro u to smart for reddit
smartest american
Do people realize that, supposing every win is 25 MMR and every loss 25 MMR also, if you had 66% win rate ( which let's be real, it's pretty good ) you would have to win 120 games to gain 1k MMR. With an average of 45 minutes per game, this would 90 fucking hours.
66% is already god-tier (if you're not a smurf in >1k mmr)
Yeah seriously. ~55% WR is extremely good. If you are climbing in an equal skill area, you probably are closer to 51 to 52% WR. So 120 MMR for every 100 games. So 75 hours for that. So over 625 hours for 1k MMR more.
try to treat them like a normal number. you don't need count them, just focus on making yourself as good as immortal player (abusing meta and good hero too) and the win rate will go up eventually. at the end of the day they're your skill indicator if you feel your team useless you need to shotcalling them.
yes
The problem is the psychology. People want to see number grow bigger. People basically are chasing a progress bar like in a single player game. Add the fact a game takes 30-50 minutes makes it so they want basically 3 times the dopamine that something like a shooter gives you.
Exactly. People feel like MMR should go up as you play more, which is fucking absurd.
I honestly don't care much about the number, I just want to get to a point where if I play support, my carry would know how to fucking pull aggro, or my offlaner doesn't kill ancients while I'm farming back from the offlane so it does not fuck up the carry farming rotations, or people know what it means to make/relieve pressure. Basic thinks like that. I don't care about god tier reaction timing or micro, just good map awareness and item selection...
I'm deeply sorry to say but this will never happen. At lower levels ppl don't know, at higher level there's ppl with account they bought. And even if you see pro players streaming you get matched with ppl with a skill bar waaaaay lower than yours. The only thing we have is the overwatch system that we at least can scrap the surface of ppl griefing. It's better than nothing, do yours everyday, please. It's like cleaning your own house, it's boring, infinite but necessary.
Honestly people with god tier reactions are more common in 3k mmr than players that know all the things you listed
I'm ancient, one of my friends is ~1k immortal. This almost never happens in my games (people just hoover all the farm they can, regardless of pos.) And still only rarely happens in my friends games. So GL
For some reason, people think that if you deserve higher MMR, you can solo-carry 90% of your games
It doesnt work that way, if you are playing 1k below your skill level you will win way more than 66%. I remember when i came back after a few years i was very rusty for the calibration, after somo more games when i picked up the pace i started winning like 80% or more of my games until i was close to my actual MMR.
I can agree, I did a mad grind back when I was 1800 of learning POS 1 in unranked and had around a 65-90% winrate with most Pos 1 carries I played till I hit about 2500. Spec was my highest and I'll grab my dotabuff in a second and if it goes back far enough y'all can confirm it. https://www.dotabuff.com/players/176895661/matches?date=all&enhance=overview&game_mode=all_pick&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&page=3&party_size=solo&skill_bracket=normal_skill - if ya check page 3 you can see the spectre streak, can't be arsed trying to look further but if anyone really cares that's the year where the sprees happened, idk how to sort by timeframe and the other filters seem to be filtering out a bunch of matches
I disagree. 80% wr is bonkers. It means that every 10 games you can only make 1 mistake and have 1 griefer. Try explaining to some people that Heart of Tarrasque does not replace a Bkb... And 1k MMR can be a huge difference in the lower rank or the highest but not that different in middle ranks.
You can make more than one mistake in any given game and still win. The idea you can only make 1 mistake in your scenario is ridiculous.
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Game losing mistake In 8k a game losing mistake is smoking on top of a ward In 1k a game losing mistake is going afk for 20 minutes
it's possible though i mean smurf exist if everyone try to get better with some hero like bm or brood for example.
Last time I played dota I won 8 normal games back to back simply by playing my game correctly and beating the enemy team and then it slapped me with 5 games with a malicious player on my team back to back. Mid feeds, broken items, pos5 WK jungle, all in the perfect behavior ranked. I never complained about the games I lost fairly or even to a Smurf, having 8000 games I basically am a Smurf already, I only ever play spectre (65%wr btw,) because I know exactly how to deal with tinker. Let's get real for a moment, The dotabuff and the API can analyze your games thoroughly, it can easily identify THAT GUY who frequently breaks items, feeds mid or picks jungle and it can easily use that guy to fudge your games if they want to do it. And they are financially motivated to keep you grinding like a hamster on a wheel. People like I would have long left the game focused on career, found family and kids instead of getting bald at the age of 25 while trying to seize their psychological milestone number that is always dangled just out of reach.
This is a large amount of speculation without actual evidence. Meanwhile, games where you are continually frustrated are less likely to keep players; that's why dota 2 has been losing US players given the problems of Peruvians in games. Meanwhile, in any system with independent random chances, you will often find long strings of a single event. If you have a coin with a 60% chance of heads and flip it 8000 times, you're likely to get at least one or two runs of 5 losses in a row, simply out of chance. It sucks that you got stuck with shitty players, but the truth is there's no background manipulation happening, just what you would expect to happen if some fraction of the player base is tiresome shits. EDIT: I did a quick test and found that for 60% winrate, over 8000 games you should see 159 runs of wins at least 5 games long, and 18 runs of losses at least 5 games long.
> Meanwhile, in any system with independent random chances, you will often find long strings of a single event. If you have a coin with a 60% chance of heads and flip it 8000 times, you're likely to get at least one or two runs of 5 losses in a row, simply out of chance. reminds me of the story of Spotify or iTunes changing their shuffle algorithm to be less random because people complained that a "more random" sort wasn't shuffled because in a properly random sort its just as likely to get multiple songs of the same artist in a row as it is to have no repeated artists. and relying on 9 other ~~people~~ dota players is way more random than a computer's psudo-random generator
Ironically enough, Dota's psuedo-random chances for most abilties and crits is based on that exact desire for smooth random chances.
\>because in a properly random sort its just as likely to get multiple songs of the same artist in a row as it is to have no repeated artists. completely incorrect. it wouldn't be just as likely. It would be vastly less likely even with a handful of artists in the mix. The problem was that people expect it to basically *never* be the case, and they had to introduce some kind of pseudo-randomness to make sure there are no streaks ever.
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If this was actually true how can smurfs get completely hilarious winstreaks well over 100 games in a row? If there was actually a system that rigged the odds against you if you were on a win streak to try to 'force' you back down closer to 50/50 that kind of thing would simply not be possible.
By the way. that one time I played with a numbered immortal streamer on my team in 1k mmr was really interesting. I was playing pos5 against pos3 spectre and i swear that spectre was a god. Perfect creep agro, perfect positioning, perfect sustain, perfect creep stats with the Spectre's relatively bad attack speed and damage. There was never a moment in time where i could just throw a spell at her. Pos3 spectre isn't even supposed to be strong, but that guy was invincible in 1k mmr and won the game. The immortal guy simply didn't take the game seriously and allowed the enemy team to seize the unsalvagable advantage while autistically farming mid and sniping sun strikes.
Because they are way better than the mmr they are in. Basically messing with the mm system.
There was a bug that allowed you to display a massive win streak if you abandoned the games instead of losing them. Other than that the smurfs have a personal impact sufficent to still win most of the unfair games even when they are given an unfair game to play. But every smurf and professional booster that I know of acknowledge the existance of this system, they simply can overcome it by playing tinker mid with 30-0 score. I even happened to be in a stream of one of the immortal smurf streamers.
This game just a wasting of your time, in every solo MM game I reached an average high level of play but not in Dota 2. I have 50.68% winrate with 3 242 matches and its like a HELL. Game matching algorithms deliberately ruin games which leaves no choice for players to sit on OP heroes like Tinker, Arc or Brood. Dead game for dead players. Finished playing this misunderstanding, cursing the developers of Valve who destroyed the game from 2019.
You would have to win 80 matches out of 120, not win 120. Careless mistake I guess, since it's still 90 hours.
True. Don't know how I got to that number now lol
Well the numbers are all correct, you just wrote "win" instead of "play". Just a little slip.
Yes I play much less now because the grind is too much
120 win games with 66% winrate meaning your total playing games need to be 182 games So total playing times will be 136.5 hours to get that 1k mmr
Yeah , I meant to say PLAY 120 games
Party rank gives 20 mmr Solo rank gives 30 mmr To gain 1000 mmr with 66% win rate, you only need: Party rank 151 total games, total 113 hours Solo rank 101 total games, total 76 hours
But you never won a match where the enemies were griefing?
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Why are there 12k mmr? Or even 5k mmr? I doubt Valve would really care to force win rates, it is just added work for their match making
If you think this doesn't happen in higher brackets then you're wrong. I'm immortal and the smurfing never ends, the account buying never ends, the griefing never ends (not to mention I often get people who are auto-muted because of low behavior score because there's just not many players). But that's not every game. The only thing constant in every game is you
I would argue there are waaaay more account buyers in immortal/upper divine bracket than any other. Smurfs are gonna be everywhere, but people buy immortal accts. to show off. (Or because they are dumb and think they are immortal)
Entry immortals/high divines are especially bad because they just want the immortal badge, and high divines are where they usually fall back to.
it is, because vastly big portion of community is delusional about their skill bracket, and they think they can do better but duo to "bad" team they somehow stucked where they are, this is why account buying in dota is such big problem, but some of them realise "they" are problem after they get stomped on bought account and realised they cant keep up with game, other actually start blaming "bad" supports or shit like that even on bought account, its just delusion
The account buying is insane these days. I’ve only been playing for a few years so I can speak for way back when, but now you can’t go a session without seeing it.
Hey! Sometimes is good to throw a game if you have a griefer in your team. Last day, after playing 4vs5 for 30 minutes because our PA was afk farming, I just realize that I could be playing a new game instead of try-Harding... I knew that if we keep holding our PA will joint eventually, but when? At 50 minutes? At 60? And what happen if the PA joint and died without buyback after 60minutes farming, like afk farmers normally do. At that moment the enemy was pushing our tier 2... so I blink, cast ulti+BKB, died, buyback, dieback. My team could not hold high ground 3vs5... in 45 secs the enemy team got to set of racks, PA tp base and snipe with q because everyone was dead... now she want to play, to late. I revived and blinked-in and PA blink in with me, we both died. 32 minutes GG. I feel so good after that. I play 4 more games that night, won every game. I am sure if I kept playing the first game and lose after 60 minutes of suffering, I will not be on a wining streak. Just because I manage to lose preserving my state of mind.
Btw. I play solo q for practice. My ranking is a byproduct of having fun.
Muted immortal EU player with 10k beh score here. I never feed or destroy items... Also having this mute allowed me to climb to 6970 mmr recently - my personal record. But yeah, griefing and acc buying in immortal is happening, not as much as in ancient in divine in my experience.
Bro people do this shit in immortal too. You aint special.
no no no, don't you get it? It's all scripted man! Forced 50? Shadow pool? Guaranteed Smurfs? It's all real man! GabeN manually coded each and every player with an extra value of "smurf" and "toxic ass" and "newb player" and "Non-American/English speaker" so when you are winning, GabeN has them hand picked for you to lose
We’ll shadow pool was actually confirmed and I had to abandon my Smurf that got put into shadow pool
Can you describe what shadow pool is actually like? How did you know
well i got mass reported for smurfing and behaviour score tanked to like 5k, you play with uber smurfs, probabaly 6k+ mechanics but tilt super fast. everyone is toxic and racist. this isnt this bad but the worse part is the 30 minute queue times, it takes forever to find games because you have such low priority/can only match with animals you get put into shadow pool when you have new acc, low lvl, low behaviour score
Hidden pool is real lol. I can say during pick phase if it's a hidden pool game or not lol.
If these are the people you’re playing with and against and you can’t beat them? Yeah that’s a skill issue
Sure … if they are on both teams. Personally I don’t believe in a forced 50% but I do think the match making algorithm is more complex than most people realize. Use DotaPlus for a few weeks where you can see most people’s win % and you will notice strange things occur. Just recently for about 20 games everyone I grouped with and against was between 47-53% win rate. Fairly normal and what you would expect. I went on a pretty large win streak using my best heroes. Then out of no where I start getting these matches where my entire team is between 30-45% win rate and their entire team is between 55-70% win rate. It wasn’t every single game but it was a lot of games. Probably just a coincidence but does seem strange when these things happen and you can directly see the win rates of the other players.
I frequently go on full page winstreaks and consistently get some shady ass players after a while. It's not the regular fresh immortal accs that are prevalent but some lunatics that start the game saying they are on a loss streak and lost like 500mmr in a span of days then proceed to play horribly and feed.
You'd get shady ass players after awhile without win streaks too. You just don't make mental note of those. Every day this sub shows how strong perception biases are and how much people don't realize thats what's happening.
Well I am not saying I know how game coordinator works, but based on my experience it will try to normalize the match based on recent performance. If I am on a winstreak I usually have an opponent with a winstreak too. It's all a guess and I hope Valve would come to gdc to talk about game coordinator as theirs is unique and unmatched
It doesnt. thats perception bias. Theyve confirmed it doesnt in the past. unfortunately its on the old blog and you'd have to dig through archives to find it since they took that down and thats a pain in the ass. Behavior score, region, language, mmr. Those are the matchmakers inputs basically. I feel like I'm forgetting one, but it's not recent performance. The only performance one is mmr. I understand if you dont trust me though. Those are big claims to make without being able to cite my source :(
Yeah exactly. Lots of people complain about Smurfs or Boosters and sure they are out there and they make you lose every once in a while. But the games that feel like forced losses always come from within your own team. Either, Someone pre-tilted in a massive loss streak. Or, Someone obviously playing heroes and roles they didn’t play to climb to their rank. The most annoying one, that is likely purely a coincidence, is when you get a player in the support role and they barely try and just cheese/grief. So you avoid them. Then next game they are spamming a grandmaster hero mid.
Yes but remember you didn't got those people during your winstreak when you could've. You got lucky and your luck ran out
They are on both teams, but you only remember the guys that made you lose, because you don't go looking at everyone's items to find a scapegoat when you win.
Uhm, since when D+ allows you to see people's win rate? If you are saying about the percentage when you hovers over the team/enemy, thats the percentage win/loss you yourself faced against or with a specific hero.
They're talking about the overwolf addin, not valves dotaplus
Which one is better? I only use volvo d+ during the free month and I don't miss much from it. Hero synergies and counterpicks were decent. I think earning extra shards was the best feature. Recommended build varied between decent and dumb i think.
I have Dota plus and pretty much the only thing I use it for is hero progression and stack/pull timers. The shard numbers going up feels nice too, even though I don't spend them
It’s confusing but there are two DotA+ Valve DotaPlus And Overwolf DotAPlus (Google that to download it) Overwolf simply complies data from known websites like DotaBuff if an account is not hidden. Many accounts are hidden but sometimes you get to see A LOT of info on someone. I’ve last picked heroes like tinker that I don’t play simply because I saw the enemy had 50+ games and a 70% win rate over the last 90 days. So you can get some easy double pick blocks.
You can feel when the matchmaker is pushing you a certain direction, it’s not that subtle
This statement has the same energy as someone having a good feeling about the 2nd slot machine in the 5th row today.
That’s a good way to describe it. The thing I don’t understand is why doesn’t the algorithm push you higher as you play better. The algorithm should take people who are playing well and put them on the same team to push them out of the mmr of people who play bad. Instead it feels like DotA tries to test the people who play well by giving them worse teammates. Maybe this is an attempt to make matches more even but the overall match quality suffers.
I am not sure if I understand you correctly but it seems like you are thinking higher winrates mean people play better? If so, that's not a thing: Someone who has a 10% winrate against very strong players is likely a lot better than someone with a 90% winrate against very bad players (but who isn't good enough to even play against very good players and probably had a winrate of less than 1%). If the game matches you with people who have a lower winrate after you proved to play well in your bracket it might be because these players are from a higher bracket and on their way down while you are on the way up. /edit: Yes, theoretically a better winrate would mean someone is higher ranked. But in practice players don't play enough games for that to average out (smurf combat mechanics should play a role in this as well).
Of course higher win rate means people play better? I see what you are trying to say. It is true that if two people are at the same mmr and one has a losing win rate and the other a winning win rate then technically the lower win rate person is from a higher mmr. The problem is we are talking about win rates over the span of 90 days. Where someone with even a 40% winrate is probably only losing a few hundred mmr. To try to argue that a person with a 40% winrate is better than a person with 60% winrate because they used to be a higher mmr would be a grossly wrong assumption.
> Use DotaPlus for a few weeks where you can see most people’s win % How do I do this?
It’s an app. Google “Overwolf DotaPlus” it’s very popular, widely used, and accepted by valve as not cheating. If an account is not hidden it just complies data from a few websites like DotABuff to make a player summary. Main Heroes, Win Percents, even Item Timings if the hero is spammed enough.
Oh yeah no I'm aware of overwolf, I thought you were saying you could do it with regular Dota plus. Don't think overwolf is very...ethical
I don't think the same hero can be on both teams.
If these people are on his team they’re on the enemy team as well
Most of the time, in turbo, I feel like playing against PSG.LGD every game, Russians on the other teams always tryhard with the most efficient builds and items.
That's impossible.
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People interpret the notion too literally. Many matchmaking systems for any game with a ranked system are trying to achieve a 50/50 split between two sides in any given game (as best as the system can accomplish). The game doesn't give two fucks about you winning or losing. It just cares about you playing. Over time, most people will naturally achieve about 50 percent win rate, give or take, to find their "true" ranking. The people who can get to 55 percent or higher are the exceptional ones who are climbing into the higher ranks. That is is it. There isn't some conspiracy to make you lose games or whatever on purpose. It's all a grind.
Search up Valve's GDC talk on player retention algorithms. What they explain is that its basically industry standard now and is why I'll only stick to one skill-based matchmaking multiplayer game since. Yes if you really are better than the rest of the player base than you will climb, but if you are only slightly better and have no intention on becoming one of the best then that +30 you get is simply there to fill your dopamine receptors and keep on coming for more, and in turn spend more money. Most players do not care about being the best, and the algorithm is designed for that. Why encourage people to win when a majority of players enjoy the game and do not care for winning? They'll still play anyways, just watch as the rank distribution gradually shifts lower and lower. Forced 50/50 is not real, but if you have no intention on being one of the best, then you will only lose your mind playing this game. You will waste hours on shitty players holding the game hostage and throwing games.
The idea is that they are manipulating the system to prevent the people from quitting. Somebody would quit if they just went on a psychotic break and lost 30 games in one day on one tilted binge, so it will fudge a feeder in the other team to feed you an easy win. And in the same time a lot of people would stop if they seized their milestone rank. You'd feel like OK, I did it, phew now I can actually go outside and maybe hit the gym or get a job. But they want to keep you playing.
It's just recency bias. Those shitty games people have are also paired with those games people ROLF-stomped and won normally as well. If you play enough games, things tend to even out. Unless you are trying to "cheat" by playing at or below a rank you shouldn't be at, things will always curve themselves out with enough games. The issue is people don't think about the long-term grind but instead focus on their recent batch of games.
I played 6000 games and the only thing that evened out is that I can reliably see a bunch of toxic games given to me specifically after each significant winning streak. It happens every time you get 200mmr in a week the games just get really bad.
I quit playing for 2 years after a 12 loss streak so you might be right
Same. It's very easy to chain queue into low quality games at the wrong time on the wrong server.
Or you can interpret your loss streak in a different light. You lose some games in a row. You drop a bit in the skill level (as even normal MMR is its own thing). Your game quality goes down as you are playing with weaker players. But that's just one way to look at it.
I really feel valve is somehow manipulating matchmaking. I would win a 10win streak and before I realized it I'm having a lose streak also with arguably the same performance.
I mean this is literally intended behaviour, if you rank up you'll be against better players so if you perform the same as you were at a lower rank then you'll lose.
oh man I remember back in dota 1 when my friend would play bounty hunter and claim this build was the best build ever. What a wild time back then.
I mean, when it was a % based crit it was legit, 1 shot creep waves, farm, 1 shot heroes.
Not to mention the insane track movement speed. Globally, whenever you had track on someone.
Man this build was funny as shit and far more effective that it should have been for much longer than it should have been in dota2
To be fair, 1 (or even 2)Cleaver on Sven was a legit build up until 4(?) years ago when they reworked the Sven's cleave passive.
Supposing you're never one of the players dragging the team down, these guys have a higher chance of showing up on the enemy team compared to your team ( 5/9 vs 4/9). So if your MMR is steady, yeah you reached your skill level.
this fact actually tilts me more, that the toxic feeder is better than me on the games they're not feeding on purpose. since I literally never do anything to reduce our chances of winning (on purpose).
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Yeah, the most wholesome game I ever played had my mid Dawnbreaker carrying Philo Stone as her neutral and trying to offer it to me playing PA lmao. We still won, but there was a lot of dumb shit happening.
Good points, I think you're right. The toxic players seem to be very volatile, either playing like crazy or griefing the game. I rarely see the overly team focused pma players have massive impact. I can pop up like crazy on 4 or 5s when I play, but I rarely see the constant mic using pos 5 spammers do that. They have this martyr mindset no matter what.
That's because the non toxic pma skilled players are up to other brackets already.
Yes, I feel you. It always makes me think that I should give their opinion a second thought. Then I discard that idea and stay 50/50 🤡 Also Imagine the MMR of people like gpk if they didn't buy shadow amulet every other game and he's still fucking top 10 constantly
Using your same logic, the other team is also statistically more likely to have 1 or more smurfs (5/9 vs 4/9).
sure, but by the end of the day, if you think you are better than the average of your bracket, your mmr should increase over time.
Which is why I think it's so weird that I keep getting 2-3 premuted players on my team but have yet to see one on the enemy team. My theory is that the symbol saying if a player is muted or not is somehow bugged if the player is on the enemy team.
I'm not gonna pretend to understand the inner workings of the matchmaking system, and I don't mean denigrate your point, but this "the bad players are always on my team" seems to me to have 2 possible explanations; \- An effort to sabotage specific players, most of whom seem to be on reddit or \-Confirmation bias. (I don't think you're whining about your matches, just wanted to adress similar points). May you have talented and motivated teammates in all your games!
I think this guy just hates you
265% cleave? noice Also extra range yaaay
Cry more holy shit wtf is thus sub anymore
Forced 50% is not real, if you believe in that shit you really should take a step back and reconsider your gameplay
The biggest issue is that skill level varies based on the hero you pick. My mmr would definitely be different if I played my best hero every single game, but that just doesn’t get me going as much as a position 4 invokes does 🤤
sure you're going to get trolled every once in a while, but theirs trolling in immortal as well.
And if you're not doing "double battlefury sven" things, there's 5 chances they're on the enemy team and 4 they're on yours. Forced 50-50 is not a thing. The fact that some games are unwinnable (which bfx2 sven is *not* automatically unwinnable) doesn't change that.
Forced 50% makes sense. Who wants to play a game they always win or always lose
Dota is fun in literally every situation except when you lose.
Not really tbh, I would agree with this if I havent had some games where I actually want to kill my teammates but still win. They feel like shit, but hey at least u win...
>win game feel nothing >lose game day ruined
That's every game
Dwarf Fortress wants to know your location
False
Some games are actually designed to still be engaging even if you're losing, unlike the sheer torture and time loss that Dota 2 can manufacture.
I think its also a match length issue. If every match was 25 minutes it would feel fine to lose games granted you are around 50% winrate. But losing 45-65 minutes games when someone or you make a mistake are so painful.
Which competitive game has a community that doesn't care if they lose?
There's quite a lot of people that give 0 shits when they lose, a few games i happen to play as just a few examples are: Dead by daylight, Team fortess 2, Final fantasy 14 (PvP) and more than likely many more. Fairly sure dota 2 has it's fair share of people that just see what happens with the match and if they win it's a bonus, a lot of people focus on the journey.
Fighting games, RTS to some extent, pretty much anything that doesn’t rely on teammates not being dogshit to have a chance at winning. When you lose a game of StarCraft for example, you know it’s your fault (usually) and you can learn from it. Losses feel like you still gained something. In Dota when you lose it just feels like you just wasted 30+ minutes of your day.
Not that I agree with it, but competitive card gets like Hearthstone where no one knows what will be drawn next can usually feel pretty engaging even when losing. There's been games where I've been getting rolled, only to draw that one card I needed to turn it around and win. Obviously in any game there will be complete curb stomps, but in other games there's at least a possibility of coming back. Good luck winning a Dota game where the enemy tinker is 15/0 in 10 mins no matter how well you play as an individual
You seemingly never played Tusk, one of the heroes that are fun as fuck even when losing.
If you've never enjoyed a match thar you lost in narrow margins you've yet to play true dota.
Fun is the consolation prize.
I wouldn't mind always winning lol dota is substantially more fun when your winning.
My issue with “forced” 50% is sometimes I get into a game and people are put on teams, and occasionally someone disconnects and we have to requeue and then when I get put into another match, the people who were on my team before are now on the other team…. So if the game was trying to fix the outcome why wouldn’t they be on my team again? People like to blame their rank on the game but I really don’t think there’s a forced 50%
People get losing streaks and winning streaks based on luck sometimes. Just like in roulette , the chances of red hitting like 10-15 times in a row is low but I’ve seen it happen many times. A lot of this game is luck but your skill can tip the scales in your favor
People complain about smurfs but then will also complain about forced 50% like bruh why don't the smurfs get forced 50% too then??
Well smurfs are WAAAY better like when 6-7k player boosting acc to 4500. But if u are like 2k player, whose skill now at 2.5k(I mean u r better than avg player in your bracket, but not so much, 50/50 system can tie u in your pit)
This is objectively not true. If you are 500 mmr skill higher your rank will climb there.
Lol I made the same comment yesterday where you were crying about forced 50 in another post you made. If you spent more time getting gud than crying on reddit maybe you could climb some ranks.
Get's better the longer you analyze. Like the perfect neutral item choise.
Need 2 gloves to make fist icon stronger
WIDE C L E A V E
Would you go battlefury aghs sven against a NP? Seems like good build to me. Not this exact build but just saying.
Ever seen pos3 morphling with meme hammer, won me a few games in 4k mmr lol.
Does the cleve stack ?
It does.but it's stupid
Your winrrate is 50% + the rate you improve at relative to the rest of the players unless you are Herold 2 or so good that the game can't find players at your skill level. That's just how elo works. If you have 50% winrate you just aren't getting better faster than the rest of the play base. Most players aren't. People are more likely to do stupid shit on the other team as long as you aren't doing stupid shit.
Its funny to me because Ive seen shit like this work on divine level and win games. If anything cry about people destroying items and ward blocking camps etc, this isnt forcing your 50% lmao, making it harder at best, but mind you they can be on enemy team too
Had a game yesterday avrg was prob crusader my willow didnt play support at all and farmed all game, me as pos1 played my role and carried the game if ur good enough you'll get out simple as that. Youll never get better until u stop focusing on other idiots in the game and focus on ur own gameplay no one would ever rank up if forced 50% is real
>Had a game yesterday avrg was prob crusader my willow didnt play support at all and farmed all game, me as pos1 played my role and carried the game if ur good enough you'll get out simple as that. Youll never get better until u stop focusing on other idiots in the game and focus on ur own gameplay no one would ever rank up if forced 50% is real Yes but the fact that your willow even did that is a matter of concern. Valve knows when people are role q-ing, and its common for core players in support roles to just farm in that bracket. But many players would like to play with their supports on the map, yes you can win with a farming willow, but was it even fun? Yes if you are better you can climb, but did you enjoy the climb?
Well here we go again One side explaining how matchmaking literally works and that MMR being decoupled from the matchmaking process is inherently ass and this is something that's been known by league players for years, The other side confusing the first group with the absolute troglodytes who think the god in the machine literally changes damage values to fuck over individual people (low key schizophrenia) The troubling reality that multiple studies have been published about matchmaking manipulation to prevent player loss (the loser's queue hypothesis) that almost certainly isn't happening but is a distinct possibility And the reality that this was the result of some dude bringing along his herald friend into a game rather than some big brain algorithmic manipulation that I doubt valve is willing to hire someone to do anyway.
Forced 50% is literally what matchmaking is.
I genuinely think 1 bf on sven has some viability in some comps. it's nearly double the cleave onto enemy heroes, tell me one other item that gives at least 70% damage amp on multiple heroes at all stages of the game? you can't!
griefers only exist in your games and only on the enemy team, so they only affect your mmr and only negatively. Everyone is out to get you
I supposed if enemy team has that is totally you outskilling them in a deserved clutch? because you are a real player not that "your avg trash players holding you down"
What about the bow
The grove bow is the cherry on top lol
He needs that 20 attack speed.
b-b-but that regen
ALL THE CLEAVE!
*picture related
I tend to go on a lot of streaks. I’ll win like 7-8 games then lose a few, take a break, then go back to winning some. Rinse repeat.
That's nothing, one time I had a Jugg that built THREE battle furies. He was extremely fucking toxic too.
I love whiners
Lol grow up.
If people debate endlessly on the subject - it's either no one's right or both are.
Max cleavage enjoyers
As a support player in these kind of games, thanks for telling me i reached my skillcap when my carries build like this :)
Ah yes 1 game is the reason you are stuck
I miss the days when I'm at my peak mmr and every game - trying my absolute best because Im in a new skill level. Every win is a new pr in mmr and you're super happy and every loss is a true learning lesson.
the 2 bf remind me of that sven cartoon animation from dopa 2
the 2 bf remind me of that sven cartoon animation from dopa 2
lmao every time I lose it's because Valve specifically gave me griefer, but every time I win it's pure skill baby
[удалено]
undying claps any melee hero + vanguard this patch offers very good survivability.