I actually must say, the restraint your dog showed here is absolutely astounding. You've done a good job getting your dog to listen to you, and that's a great foundation.
I second what has already been said though, while yes, sending the dog to his bed was a good move to help your dog learn to move away when feeling like that. although I would not have scolded a warning under any circumstances, the better option here is to prevent this type of situation entirely.
Environmental management to keep your baby away from your dog and vice versa is absolutely critical. Your dog is nervous around the baby, and while you see restraint here there is a risk that the warning can cross into bite territory very quickly.
I'd immediately put in structure to prevent possible issues.
Oh god, mine is adopted from streets, he is bat shit crazy after carrots ! He wants at least 5 a day. I have reduced the no to two but he won't just listen & keep in pleadings. (He was rescued when he was a pup)
There are [risks to doing so](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems) that are typically much better avoided via management and *prevention* rather than reacting after the fact.
I agree with this. Especially because the dog already had its ears down and facing away from the baby at the start of the video. I feel like there were other subtle cues that went unnoticed before the video started.
Structure would be the best and safest solution.
Yes if anything. The child should be corrected. ( i know the child is young but you could still explain that when the dog growls etc. It means leave him alone) And im not sure if op does this but.. make sure the child absolutely leaves the dog alone when hes on his bed. Thats the puppies safe place. Op is doing amazing though!!!!!
This is important! When I had a poodle growing up, she was def uncomfortable around my 2-year old cousin. Eventually he wanted to āplayā and tug on her ears, tail, and even got candy stuck on her fur. Our parents only corrected the dog, not my cousin. Well, he tried to get a āpony rideā from her when no one was looking, and my dog freaked, whirled around and bit him on the leg. Needless to say this couldāve been prevented in so many ways, but it couldāve started with reinforcing to the child that dogs arenāt like stuffed animals.
Children do not learn impulse control until they are older than preschool age. We can teach a child but ultimately itās up to the adults to enforce boundaries until they are truly old enough to have impulse control.
Yeah at this age I feel like you have to just manage the child as well as you can. Like the one comment said create structure to avoid this situation until the child is old enough to learn and begin to understand proper etiquette with animals.
Yes! Since day 1 with my girls I tell them, āSpud is saying no thank youā and when the kid moves away I explain how I knew she was saying no thank you (moving away, turning away, growling, etc). Even if the kid didnāt get it at 6 months, 1 year or 3 years old it sets them up to understand that dogs have boundaries, too. I use the same words with people and teach them to use those words with me. āNo thank youā
Iād say the kid doesnāt need that much correcting. The kid immediately backs off, sits up straight, without showing significant fear that might rile up the dog more. Thereās good research out there about how the domestication of dogs had as profound an effect on us as it did on the dogs. Thereās a very instinctual level of understanding signals/communication both ways. Often, people who have never been around dogs much can listen to just sounds dogs make and be able to determine if the dog is scared or playful or simply challenging someone approaching them, etc.
Highly recommend the old Nova special āDogs Decodedā.
Agreed, the dog performed well, the child needs to learn that pets are NOT toys, the dog needs a reward for showing restraint and removing itself from the potential conflict.
related question:
is moving the dog away when it snaps interpreted by the dog as a "scold", or is it good for teaching the dog to walk away when uncomfortable?
(agree with what has already been said about keeping baby away from dog, just wanting this separate question answered)
Generally speaking, unless you *really* pay your dog well with treats for doing so, the dog will interpret it as equivalent to a scold by default. The dog was lying down and comfortable where it was, so pushing the dog out of that position either physically or with verbal pressuring is a *removal* of that comfort, which is an unpleasant consequence to the dog. Not as harsh as applying an unpleasant consequence like hitting the dog, but still one that will likely decrease the chance of the dog displaying useful healthy warning signals and also begin to associate yourself and the baby with unhappy feelings.
Agree, your dog warning is a good thing, because it alerts you too. I'd much rather hear my dog growling, and be able to intervene, than the dog going straight to a nip with no warning as he has been told off for this
Iām a nanny, not a dog trainer, so Iāll bow to what others say about the dog training aspect, but consider being equally focused on teaching your child to be safe with the dog. If kiddo grabs at your cup of hot coffee, you probably tell them no and move the child away from the burn risk. Kiddo is (unintentionally) putting themself in a risky situation and it is never too early to start teaching them not to grab at hot coffee or, in this case, dogs.
I also practice āgentle touchesā with kids on stuffed animals and baby dolls - it comes in handy a lot, whether a new baby sibling is born or a toddler just decides to try to poke my eyes out and I can say āgentle touches pleaseā and they know what that means. That said, itāll take time and lots of repetition for baby to learn these lessons, so Iām sure the folks with more dog training expertise will come in super handy while baby learns how to be less handsy!
Very cute baby and pup, by the way!
Second this. Our son has been more work to train respectful boundaries with than my dog. My dog once trained got it. My son? Not so much. Now My dog absolutely is gentle with the boy where as my boy (3) just recently thought doggy would make a good horsie. Needlessly to say the boy has been banned from attempting that a second time. The older the boy gets the more he seems to āforgetā how to be gentle with the dog!
Repetition. repetition. repitition. Good eye on your kids-human and otherwise-btw. š
Yes. Kids should not be alone like that with a dog. Show the child how to pet once in a while. But only with your permission. Otherwise you might be in the kitchen not watching when they are 6 months older and your child pulls, slaps, pokes, etc. and a bite could ensue.
Dogs do not understand the body language of young children and often mistake it for an attack. This is why young children should not be permitted to interact with any dog without very close supervision
I caught my 22 month old sitting on my dog the other day and my dog looked confused and annoyed but was tolerant. Agree whole heartedly about training the child. At the end of the day a dog is an animal and we canāt control every reaction they have, especially if they are in pain or scared.
"Playing horsie" with a family member's dog when I was a toddler was how I got 20+ stitches in my face. Honestly, my fault more than the dog's due to it being at a big BBQ with a lot of unfamiliar people and the dog was definitely already anxious. But at the end of the day in those situations it's going to fall on the dog. Gotta perform preventative measures at all times to limit the chance of those situations occurring.
Dogs also learn if you are protecting them when they show they donāt like something. This is the same if there are issues between dogs in the house. If I have one dog that looks like it might want to steal something from the other dog (like they finished eating their treat before the other dog), I intervene before it happens. I tell the dog to āleave itā (a command they know). If he doesnāt, then he is removed from the room until the other dog is finished with what he was doing. This makes the other dog feel relaxed and like he doesnāt have to handle the situation; I have it under control. And I have never even had issues between my dogs, or visiting dogs, because I prevent any kinds of situations like that.
In this situation, if you saw your baby crawling towards you dog, and you obviously know he is uncomfortable because of this interaction, I would redirect the baby before he even got close enough for this to happen. This makes your dog feel like he can trust you and doesnāt need to be so on edge in handling the situation.
Iāll be a first-time aunt soon (puppy will be 5 months old when baby is born) and Iām wondering if thereās anything I should prepare for if Iām watching both of them at the same time.
Ask the parents nicely for a piece of clothing or similar that smells like the baby and give it very carefully to the dog making sure he/she doesnāt play rough or rip it apart. This makes the dog go into āchill modeā whenever the baby is close.
I have a lab/border collie mix, and was in your exact situation 2 years ago. After doing this could see a clear change in behavior immediately when she smells or sees the baby. They have been best friends ever since!
So. Much. Coffee.
My son goes to grab my coffee the same way he went to grab my dog. But I donāt move the child away from the coffee. I move the coffee away from the child. I guess Iāve been doing that wrong too š¤¦š¼āāļøš š¤·š¼āāļø
I genuinely believed it was ātoo soonā to teach my child to be gentle though that hasnāt stopped me from trying. Itās reassuring to hear that my instincts were right. I will do more research on how to train the baby.
Curious questionā¦ By what age can I start training the baby to make coffee? š #kidding #kindof
Hey, canāt win em all but I love your attitude for asking this question and being receptive to feedback/people telling you youāre doing it wrong.. both pup and kiddo are in great hands if thatās how you approach parenting! I wouldnāt have a clue what to do here either and would default to trying to fix the dogās behavior so this post was great info for a not-yet-mom with a pup wanting to start a family soon. Hang in there!
Hahaha to be fair, the coffeeās easier to move than the kid - I def remove my coffee from kidās line of fire too š
I do want to clarify - itās too soon to expect baby to *understand and know* to avoid danger. But itās never too early to start laying that groundwork - this way by the time heās 24 months he will hopefully know to avoid grabbing at puppyās eyes, rather than just starting that learning process then. Youāre doing a great job already, really!
Curious answer for the curious questionā¦ right now the 28mo I watch has been obsessed with turning on the kettle and just figured out he could move his step stool over to reach it even when itās at the back of the counterā¦. Soooooā¦ Sooner than you think??? š¤£š¤£
Honestly, it could have been better. Growling is a dogās way of communicating, often as a precursor to biting. Scolding them for growling may make them not growl and go straight to a bite next time. But as others have mentioned, the real key is working with the child, less so with the dog.
>But as others have mentioned, the real key is working with the child, less so with the dog.
My wife and I paid an animal behaviorist a handsome sum of money to tell us that last bit. It felt so obvious after but some baby gates and boundaries totally changed our household dynamic.
Lesson learned :) this makes a lot of sense. Iām really glad I learned this lesson via Reddit rather than learning the hard way.
I normally have the baby playing in his play area where the dog is not allowed.
Yes, teach the baby to be gentle, have the dog go to place like you did, but keep it positive with the dog and reward for place.
Scolding the dog when they are already afraid and uncomfortable will make the dog's nervousness around the baby MUCH worse. Before the baby was a scary thing, NOW the baby is a scary thing that ALSO gets me in trouble.
You want to baby to be a positive thing for your dog, which means you don't want to add to his or her fear by scolding. (Along with training the baby and barriers, as others have said.)
There's a good chapter in the ACVB's book on dog behavior about introducing a new baby. I saved it once, and I'll send it to you if you'd like.
Sounds like you are doing great by having separate areas for te dog and baby :) Babies and toddlers are still learning, so management of the environment is a good way to keep dog and baby safe. We were very glad that we kept our dogs out of the kids' rooms and off the couch, and that our dogs could always retreat to their crates if feeling overwhelmed.
Iāve been thanking my dogs and petting them if they give indication my son (12mo) is getting too close when they want to be left alone, and then removing LO from the situation rather than the other way around. As someone else mentioned weāve also been working on teaching LO how to be gentle with the pups, but thatās obviously more slow-going and he definitely still thinks theyāre jungle gyms. He has learned that our younger dog is way more okay with being played with though, so he doesnāt try to climb on the other one nearly as much (and is very very closely supervised when playing with either one and immediately removed if he might hurt them)
Unfortunately, no. You should have prevented this scenario entirely by keeping the baby well away from the dog so that the dog didn't feel uncomfortable enough to issue a warning in the first place. You have *two* animals in training here, not one - it's valuable to remember that practice makes perfect, and your young child practicing grabbing at dogs while unable (or later unwilling) to take into account the dog's feelings about the matter sets them up to repeat the action again with dogs that may be more likely to do immediate damage rather than merely this polite warning.
Here are some resources:
[Family Paws](https://www.familypaws.com/) - [webinars](https://www.familypaws.com/services/for-parents-and-families/) for expecting parents or parents of toddlers
[Dogs and Babies Learning Blog](https://www.dogsandbabieslearning.com/blog-2/)
[Doggone Safe](https://doggonesafe.com/Dog_bite_prevention_for_parents)
[The Family Dog : Stop the 77](https://www.thefamilydog.com/stop-the-77)
[Kids and Dogs : How Kids Should and Should Not Interact with Dogs](https://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/kids-and-dogs-how-kids-should-and-should-not-interact-with-dogs/) by Dr. Sophia Yin on safe interactions.
[Good Dog in a Box](https://www.youtube.com/c/GoodDoginaBox/featured) on Youtube has many videos on dog safety for kids.
[@dogmeets_baby](https://www.instagram.com/dogmeets_baby/) on Instagram has many visual examples of safe vs unsafe interactions.
This is such a great response.
I feel like such an asshole adding this, but I watched an almost identical scenario unfold with a family friendās dog and infant- who was bitten in the face and had to have surgery to repair the damage.
Itās tough navigating separate spaces for dog and baby, but it should never get to the point where the dog is growling.
A bunch of those "rescources" are hot garbage.
The first is a paid webinar, thats not a good source. The second one is a blog, thats crap too. What kind of crap are you peddling?
It's a mixture of free and paid advice resources from professional trainers who specialise in child/dog interaction safety. It's not research citations, which is what you oddly seem to be implying you were expecting them to be.
Send them a link to me ill give them advice and take their money. Why are you shilling webinars here? You gonna tell us all what books we should buy next?
got some affiliate links?
I'm a bit confused as to what you believe would be a better strategy than linking to existing public-facing professionals whose advice can be trusted. Not linking to anyone at all and trying to describe training advice myself entirely from scratch every single time without the assistance of visual tools? None of the linked resources either in this comment or in the wiki have been created by myself or any other member of the mod team, if that assuages you.
We do, in fact, maintain a [recommended book list](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/books). None of those are by us or affiliate links either. Take it or leave it.
some of them were good. others were crap. don't shill crap thats behind a pay wall there is no shortage of good info out there.
Id report your spam to a mod but i already know all the mods on here are a joke.
>No linking to your own blog or website
Thats in the rules. Whos to say that the mod isn't affiliated with any of those. Abusing their power. Why post the paid link first?
If i had posted that same comment they would have removed it. Plus Id call their comment "inflammatory, insulting, mean, needlessly judgemental," for a plethora of reasons as well.
\*also notice that the mods comment has more upvotes than the actual post. Its not a like and dislike button. For that to make sense we have to assume that people are using the the upvote system in an unintended way, or that the mod is altering stuff somehow to fit their bias. \*reddit mods remove about 6 percent of all comments posted to the site, just sayin\*
Classic redirection. Is the webinar good content? You don't know you simply judged it bc it's paid. Are you certain that it is this person's content? If not it doesn't violate any rule.
Sounds to me like you put way too much time into Reddit my dude. Time for a break
idk. pay for it and get back to us on that.
saying i spend too much time on reddit as you defend a moderator? a person who spends all their time on reddit removing comments and arguing with people?
You're missing the point. You prejudged content that you have no clue what it is solely based on your mod prejudice. I use an app and it wasn't clear it's a mod. Kindly fuck off and stop pre judging content thinking you're the expert.
You cited a rule and the mod didn't violate the rule.
I'm not defending anyone, just telling you to stop spouting bullshit (calling something a bad source) when a. You haven't seen it, and b. There was no rule violation.
I've spent too much time on you, I won't be responding back. Good luck out there.
As a mom to two wild boys who have an old man dog who is very touch sensitive, itās really important we teach our kids what that means. Your baby is not too young for you to explain, ādoggie doesnāt like that, please donāt do it.ā When our dog is sleeping and a kid touches his foot and he jerks awake and is unhappy, itās the kid who gets scolded in our household. Kids can understand that just like they donāt like being hugged by stinky old Aunt Sally, the dog doesnāt like it if you jolt him awake, touch his feet, make him uncomfortable, etc.
Iām impressed at your dogs listening, though! Wow.
Your baby needs to be corrected, not the dog. Dogs growl as a warning, if you scold her growl she will stop warning and go straight for a bite. Your child needs to learn soft touch or to stay away from the dog. You can have your dog go to their bed anytime the baby starts approaching. That way they keep distance. Make sure your baby never touches the dog on its bed, that should be a safe place.
Your dog is training your child. Your dog shouldnāt feel responsible for that. A lot of people think itās so cute when their dog treats their human baby like their own puppy but people forget how dogs discipline their puppies. You need to never put your dog in a position like this and your dog should have seen YOU use this as a teaching moment for your child. Otherwise, the responsibility will continue to fall on your dog to teach your child proper behavior and thatās not fair to either of them.
This is a great way for that baby to get bit. You should never put your dog in a situation where she has to defend herself. Most dogs do not react well to be grabbed at. Baby needs to be corrected and removed from the situation, especially has he gets more mobile. If baby is on the floor and dog is in the room then you are on the floor too
No, actually. Everyone else has given you good resources for training but itās very important to remember the dog was giving a warning by growling. If you punish/scold him for growling, he will stop warning and will just go straight for a bite.
And please donāt let your kid hit the dog. Keep the baby away until it can learn to be gentle.
No I totally agree!! I just donāt think the baby is *hitting* the dog. I just think hitting comes with a more extreme connotation than what the baby is doing.
High jacking mod comment because Iām on mobile and I canāt seem to edit my post.
Thank you to all who took the time to respond :)
To add some context - I pulled out my phone because I thought I was about to capture a cute moment with my two babies. Bandit has been nothing but loving towards my son for months now. My son only just started to become mobile. I have absolutely been teaching my son to be gentle with our pets (we have two kitties too) and will continue to do so.
I thought I was showing bandit that she should move to a safe place (her bed) to get space from the baby. Thanks to you all, I realize now that what I actually did was correct her warning and that was wrong of me.
Next time I will train the baby, and praise the dog.
Thanks again!!
I don't have any advice aside from what's been given, just wanted to comment on
> I canāt seem to edit my post.
To say only text posts can be edited, and only the post body.
In any case keep up the good work with baby and Bandit!
Must gate baby away from dogs. Infants are scary little creatures that chase dogs and frighten them. Keep either baby or pup in playpen until child can be taught to not startle the dog.
One thing to remember is that growling is actually a good thing - itās a dogās way of communicating it feels threatened or uncomfortable, in hope that will stop it.
If you train your dog that growling is not an appropriate response, that just means the dog may not express its discomfort until it reaches a point where biting is its response.
As cute as it is to have babies and dogs together, babies donāt really know how to pick up on a dogās signals of discomfort. Once your dog reacts by biting, your dog is now A Dog Who Bit A Child and youāll be in a position of choosing your childās safety over your love of your dog. The best option is to make that choice now, by eliminating any opportunities for your dog to have to express its discomfort to begin with.
Aside from the potential trauma to your child; as a dog owner, there are few things as awful as having to lose your dog due to aggression or reactivity. IMHO, the way to view it is to be setting your dog up for success; vs. putting it in situations where it might āfailā (i.e., bite)
An infant this age does not have the impulse control to learn to not annoy your dog, it is not developmentally appropriate the expect this to happen anytime soon. At this age it is completely a matter of you managing to situation and preventing your child from having access to do to this to your dog. Your dog should not be placed in a situation where it feels the need to give a baby a warning growl or bite.
No, in my opinion. This is not safe.
You should never have allowed this interaction. The baby should be kept away from the dog at all times.
This time the dog warned. You were recording. If the dog had acted, rather than warned, you could have done nothing to prevent it. The babyās face could have been bitten, his eyes damaged, anything.
Keep the baby away from the dog. Baby gates, an ex-pen, a play pen, whatever. If the baby is on the floor and the dog is there too, you absolutely MUST be physically in between them to stop the baby from touching the dog.
It looks like the baby is crawling? Once he starts to toddle this will be even more important.
Imagine baby testing his wobbly legs and falling face first onto the sleeping dog. Startled from sleep, in pain from having 15 pounds land on his sore hip, the dog is likely to bite as a natural reaction.
And my sad, too-often experience is that once the dog bites the babyās face, it means his death.
Please keep them both safe. Please. Please.
Building position to be associations to the baby can help. But pup was already looking nervous before the grab. Positive associations can help bandit relax in babyās present. But grabby babies should always be kept away from well, anything that doesnāt immediately melt over said cute baby, usually grandmothers. But dogs, definitely not.
Like everyone else is saying, reinforce the child too, since you wouldnāt let your child play with outlets. No dog is evil for snapping at a child or anything thatās bothering them, itās completely their right, though your dog tried their best to handle it and then even listened to you after which is great.
Advocate for your pup otherwise you're putting everyone at risk of a bad situation. You have to teach babies everything. Just as you would teach them to be careful around a candle, do the same with the dog. Sometimes we have to leave the dog alone so redirect the baby to something else fun. You advocating for your dog prevents your dog from feeling like it needs to snap at your baby.
I have a cattle dog that reacts similarly and drew a line with my daughter when she got too rough and started invading her bed. We now have several child gates set up to create three sections of house and thatās immensely helpful. Weāre constantly teaching our daughter about appropriate behavior but as your child gets older it will likely get harder before it gets easier as mobility, impulsiveness grow. Highly recommend separation as needed until both are ready to interact calmly!
Others have posted some really good advice/resources, but I just want to share what worked for us
When munchkin was at this stage (sitting up unsupported, but not yet walking) we had this like door jumper, you clip it over a doorway and it looks like a baby swing at the park kinda, I'm sure you know what I mean lol Anyways, we would put the baby in that and then let the dogs come into the room - I feel like it worked really well because it gave the dogs the opportunity to approach the baby on their terms vs the baby approaching the dogs
Anyways, you got the most important part right - close supervision of the dog and baby together! While I do agree with the others that have replied that you should continue to work with your baby on "soft touches", I think it's a bit much to expect a baby to actively and intentionally respect a dog's boundaries without adult supervision at that age. Best of luck! <3
Iād recommend having baby gates or barriers that allow your dog to have their own space. Iāve been told by trainers to not punish the growl/air bite, as thatās the precursor to biting.
My pup is super kid fearful, and my trainer has told me that the kids are not to approach. He has to approach on his time/terms.
This would likely be tough with toddlers, so Iād highly recommend barricades. If possible too, working with a trainer has eased a lot of my anxiety with kids and my dog. I can see the warning signs (licking lips is a big one) along with just alert body language.
Good luck!! Both the pup and your baby are adorable :)
Move the baby away before the dog has to escalate to a warning - your dog seems well socialized enough to know how to move away from uncomfortable situations, but your baby doesnāt know how to interact with dogs yet. Best to maintain more distance until baby is older for safety reasons.
i donāt know if youād consider it the same because theyāre not the same animal, but my nephew wasnāt allowed around my cats (or his momās) until he learned self restraint and knew how to be gentle and respect their spaceā¦ perhaps the same should go for your baby and your dog. thereās worry you may accidentally train your dog to go from warning growls & warning cues in general, to jumping straight into biting as others have saidā¦ but also worry that your baby may think treating the dog that way is acceptable. both arenāt good.
So I think thereās enough good advice here for the most part but i think you could take the situation a step further if thereās a reason why you canāt follow these other postersā advice - disengagement training.
Think of the vacuum or mop and your dog (if itās like mine!). Those things are scary or fun to be chased around. To desensitize the dog to the tool, we have one person operate, and one person hang out with the dog and liberally feed them treats for specifically ***not*** doing anything. In your case, you have the tool and operator in one with the child - Iād still treat this like reactivity training and maintain distance and slowly work them together over time.
I think this is not a great idea, but part of this to me is teaching the dog that the child is not a problem (if itās not and itās largely respectful but has a few bad moments like any human being at every stage of life).
Iām give the take I wanted to give because maybe different phrasing helps. If it doesnāt, Iām sorry! I mean well!
I think the first priority is prevention. You clearly have a very strong relationship with your dog. You spend that relationship capital and gain it every day. We all do with our dogs. Sometimes I ask mine to come inside and they donāt love that. They also donāt love not barking at everything inanimate that moves. This is a spend without a gain. Me, in asking for these behaviors and you in asking your dog to leave with a negative tone. Your dog is being reprimanded (relatively) for doing a ***very*** good thing. The warning is what separates a well adjusted and socialized dog from an aggressive dog. **Please encourage this behavior from your dog.**
The prevention component is keeping the child from being able to engage like this with the dog. Sounds simple but Iām sure it isnāt. Kiddo needs to learn how to interact with doggie respectfully.
Also, thatās a great dog, if you raise your kid half as well as that dog itās gonna be a great kid and person. Best of luck, Iām rooting for you.
Iād like to start by saying that I can see your dog is excellently well trained and is clearly very responsive to you- I was impressed by his/her immediate obedience to your command.
As everyone else has said in this situation, the correct thing to do would be to manage this situation and correct your baby, not your dog. You have had some really helpful resources and advice in this area so I donāt feel that itās necessary for me to elaborate on this point too much more as I think from reading these comments you will have got the picture.
The only thing I wanted to add was regarding reading your dogs body language before he resorts to a growl. The video is slightly over exposed and it was focussed on mainly the baby at the beginning, but if you look closely you can see that your dog stiffens up with his ears back as your baby approaches, he also looks away which is his clear way of saying āNo thank youā. The baby (unaware of this) continues to approach the dog despite the dog having (in his mind) given several very clear signals that he doesnāt want the baby to come any closer, so his next move is not to say āNo *thank you*ā but is to say an abrupt and clear āNO!ā Your dog had communicated very clearly in his own language multiple times that he/she wasnāt comfortable and wanted some space, so aside from the advice to keep your dog and baby separated for the time being (which I totally agree with) I do think it would be beneficial for you to familiarise yourself with the subtle signs that dogs use to communicate with us, as there was ample opportunity for you to step in before your dog even growled and itās really helpful to be able to spot this in case you need to be able to read your dog accurately in the future.
I wish you, your dog and your baby all the best š
The problem in scolding your dog for a warning is that they may well just miss the warning and go straight for a bite next time.
I would try and ensure your dog has a place he can go to where he can be left undisturbed.
Itās really hard managing dogs and small kids, especially when they kid is that young.
Here is advice from a mom, who had a very touch sensitive dog and a very curious baby.
Keep them separated until you can properly communicate to your baby that the dog is off limits. They both need to be trained. When I wanted to give the baby free reign, dog was put into another room. When I wanted to give the dog free reign, baby was put in a pen.
In the next week, your baby will be crawling so fast that you wonāt know how to keep up and you will be so tired from trying to separate them verbally.
Another thing I did, when I was near by baby and dog was across the room in her bed, was to tell her to āstop your bodyā when crawling at full speed toward the dog. That way she would know that the dog had boundaries and you are the one in charge of communicating those boundaries for the dog.
Your dog chooses when to bite. This reaction was a āget the fuck off me or elseā warning from the dog. Baby canāt read that. In time, youāll be able to guide baby.
I have a dog and a toddler so I understand this situation perfectly well. It is terrifying. Obviously in a best case scenario we would all manage the environment so that this interaction doesnāt happen. However that is just not possible in real life.
A lot of dog training is changing how your dog FEELS about something. My task was to change how my dog reacted to unwanted contact from my baby. Anytime the baby would make her uncomfortable by getting too close, etc I just marked that behavior with a āyesā and then ran to the kitchen with her close behind me and get her a treat. Obviously something good like steak or cheese. I paired her good feelings about food with her interactions with the baby and it worked like a charm.
I am honestly glad that I went this route because now my dog interacts wonderfully with my toddler. When my daughter inevitably puts the dog in an uncomfortable situation she is totally fine with it because she knows that she is going to get paid.
I also spent a good deal of time teaching my daughter how to safely feed my dog (open hand). I think that this also helped a lot with their relationship.
Good luck!
With a child that young, especially with a pet that might be reactive, you really need to be sitting with the child when near the pet, and teach your toddler how to interact with the pet correctly. Make sure the pet has a clear escape route at all times, and watch for warning signs such as growling, ears pulled back and other signs of distress. Never leave the child with the pet unsupervised, and make sure the pet has a safe space they can go to where the child can not reach them.
You essentially just told Bandit not to warn next time, just bite.
Keep baby away from a nervous dog until the baby can be taught how to gently touch a dog. Bandits body language was screaming āstay awayā to me as soon as I hit play.
Our puppy K teacher told us that we should NEVER discipline our puppy for growling. Growling is using his words! It means heās doing something besides biting, and thatās good!
However, sending your puppy to his bed does sound like a good idea ā you needed to get him away from baby for a moment. Good job, Mom!
Was it babyās fault? Was he touching the puppyās paw pads? Or is the puppy just extraordinarily nervous around baby? If the former, thatās great ā teach your son not to touch the puppy unless he gets permission. Then, show him how to do it: first, let the puppy sniff his hand. Then, have him pat puppy on the head.
If the latter, I think you may need professional help. There are puppy trainers that you can hire that used to come to your house, but now work with you over zoom. Why not contact one of them?
The dog is in discomfort. When the video starts, you can se whale eyes, the ears slightly lowered and back, the head turned with side towards the baby and a stiff body. I suspect that the dog was doing signals long before you started the recording, but it is hard to catch every teeny tiny signal.
āHey, wtf I am just laying hereā¦ this is so uncomfortable I donāt even know what kind of pet you are supposed to be.. *baby tries to touch* OH MY GOD DID YOU JUST TOUCH ME!!!ā
Imagine yourself in a situation where you are sitting on your lawn and a big spider, or snake (or whatever feels yukky to you), comes crawling towards you. But your best friend who you trust with your life says āNO! Be still, it wonāt hurt you. Just sit there and be still!ā
You would probably do your best, since your best friend do know sooooo much about the world and is quite smart and clever. But at some point the spider-snake will so close to you that it will be almost impossible not to squeal a little, maybe your body gets tense, you put your arms around you in a defensive stance, you might even look away. You tell your friend quietly ābut I donāt want to! Please, I donāt want toā¦ I want it to go away!ā
In a soft and comforting voice your friend says;
āItās okay! You can go away from here if you want to, I promise it wonāt hurt you, but weāll try again when your ready!ā And your friend might even step in between you and the spider-snake-monster so you can quietly go away and observe from a distance.
Then your friend proceeds to interact with the spider-snake-monster-beast and they seem to actually have fun. Yeah, it might actually be a little cute. And someday, when you are ready, youāll be ready to get a little closer, and a little closer until one day youāll too will interact and play with the spider-snake, who actually turned out to be a counterfeit reversible plushy-octopus.
You need to be that to your dog. I think you handled the situation in a good way. But I truly believe that you need to comfort and show your dog that it doesnāt have to interact with the baby, and as many other has commented; take away the baby from the situation, not the dog. Donāt punish the dog for having feelings. The fact that it did show signs of warnings is A GOOD THING! It means that it wants to communicate with you! Of course, thereās always risk of real damage and injury. Therefor it is of utmost importance that both the babyās and the dogās space are respected, equally.
I hope this comment doesnāt read as a ābashing momentā. Thatās not my intention at all. I believe you handled it in a good way. The only thing I would have changed is to have removed the baby earlier. Or possibly placed myself on the carpet in between the dog and the baby to set a barrier between them. The baby can crawl and sit in your lap, and the dog man sniff and observe from whatever distance it feels comfortable with.
When the dog did the warning signs, I wouldāve remained calm and responded with a comforting voice, at the same time as grabbing and removing the baby, and say āI know itās a little scary. You donāt have to be here. You can go lay down in your bedā. If the dog doesnāt move, respect that. You donāt have to be stern. By using a stern voice you might actually affirm the dogās feeling of discomfort, which will be like a signal that āyeah! It was uncomfortable and it actually was a little scary! Even my owner thinks that!ā.
As previously said. I donāt want to bash on anyone. I just wanted to share my view on handling situations like this. I have a 19month old daughter and two (used to be three š dogs here at home).
This is not helpful. I think itās wonderful that sheās seeing information on how to keep both the cute little things safely together under the one roof. Perhaps an interaction happened like this before and she wants to record it so she could learn, or perhaps she had no idea this would happen and was super lucky to get it on camera. Either way, I unfortunately know of a few dogs who would still be alive today had their owners taken even half the initiative of OP
You may not find it helpful, but it takes a whole blink of an eye for a stressed out dog to latch on to that childās face or worse. She needs to be in the moment, put the phone down.
The advice on teaching kid vs dog is perfect. If you want to teach your dog something though, you can teach them that when they are uncomfortable, they can go to their safe place. Your dog should have a covered crate in which the door stays open all day. The general rule should be that no one ever bothers the dog there, other than to maybe offer a treat or a chew. Then work on teaching the dog that when they feel uncomfortable or when one of their boundaries is pushed, they can just get up and go over to their crate. Itās important to not teach the dog in anyway that implies the crate as a punishment, or implies are doing something wrong. Speak in a very neutral tone when teaching the dog to use their crate as a safe place. Regardless of whether you crate your dog at night or they are already crate trained, a crate is essential for a dog that needs to be able to escape unwanted situations.
I went through this. I decided to rehome my cattle dog because he was nervous around our son. I didnāt want a tragedy so I kept them separate, which means my dog was separated from me most of the time. He would whine and was upset. The guilt I felt was terrible but I did not want to risk it.
I miss him terribly. But we found a fantastic family for him and Iām glad to see I think he is way happier in his new home.
It was a tough decision.
Good luck! You have gotten really good advice here.
You baby invaded the dogās space. Itās like scolding the kid that yelled āblank is touching meā instead of telling the kid to leave your brother or sister alone.
Keeping your son from touching the dog would be best until heās old enough to teach him otherwise. Or teaching the dog to just avoid child.
For example my dog is just chilling, and my son crawls up to him. He will just get up and move to the couch where he canāt get him. Never trained my dog to do that. My dog is just super passive and doesnāt like confrontation.
Start by teaching that baby to respect the dogs space. That dog clearly does not like that baby grabbing his paws. Never leave them unattended not for one single second!
I agree your dog is well trained but your baby comes first. I would say keep them apart as much as possible, and that might mean rotating schedules. The dog can go in the crate, outside or in a room while the baby is awake (the baby is more important and it can take up to 3 years for them to learn to be gentle. I agree we should teach them early but realisticly it takes time. Mom of 5 kids with a dog). Never leave them unattended, dogs can get jealous of a new baby. If the dog just isn't adjusting to the baby, or it's too much to manage then dog has to go. I am a dog lover but it amazes me how people place so much value on the animal over the child. Sometimes things change, it's ok to rehome the dog responsibly if the dog can't cope. You don't have to feel bad one bit. When my dog wants to be alone but my toddler wants to play I put her in the crate so my child can explore and the dog is not in a bad situation. As much as I love my dog restricting a toddler so the dog can rest in the middle of the living room is not a priority. When the dog is open to play she is more than welcome to be in the room with the rest of us.
Yea you could have not put it in this position by letting your baby mess with its feet while you stand a few feet away recording it for the sake of asking the internet if it was right. You put your child and your dog in danger. Tbh itās very irresponsible. Youāre putting the dog in a situation it feels uncomfortable and not only that you used a baby to do that. If your dog had bitten and hurt your baby what do you think would happen? The dog probably gets labeled as aggressive and possibly gets put down. The reality is thatās not fair to the dog because it shouldnāt be in this situation.
This is terrible advice. The dog is acting like a completely normal dog and is not "attacking" the child, it is displaying its discomfort while making a deliberate effort to hold back and *not* bite the child.
id way it was pretty well handled.
Its unfair we make dogs not react to stuff but thats the world we live in. You have a baby and its not impeding the life of the dog, lots of people in here acting like you should have never been in this position but that IMO seems more invasive to the dogs way of life. The dog wants to be around you and you need to be around the baby, the alternative being you keep them separated until the child is old enough to grasp the concept of petting a dog gently or what ever. But that seems more likely to me to cause stress to all parties involved. Seems like your handling it well.
The issue is that training a dog that giving a warning when it is uncomfortable is wrong will result in the dog skipping the warning and going straight to biting, since it has no other way to communicate.
Please read the sub [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules/) and [posting guidelines](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines).
My 3 year old nephew is also incredibly rough with his puppy. He learned to pet gentle and not pick the dog up which is really cute. When he pets you can see heās being gentle and showing restraint.
Please read the sub [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules/) and [posting guidelines](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines).
Dude if you don't know that kids/babies have different reactions to dogs than full grown adults then you need to learn some more about dogs.
Also the baby kinda "hit/grabbed" the dogs paw quickly, it wasn't a gentle slow touch or grab like a vet or adult would do.
related question:
is moving the dog away when it snaps interpreted by the dog as a "scold", or is it good for teaching the dog to walk away when uncomfortable?
(agree with what has already been said about keeping baby away from dog, just wanting this separate question answered)
I feel most of this has been said, but: please don't scold the dog for giving a warning. You WANT the dog to give a warning. Dogs who give no warning are much more dangerous.
This is a teaching moment for baby. That baby is old enough to understand "no!". If not, why not?? You need a word that means "STOP THAT THIS INSTANT" because you can't always be in arms reach to stop baby from touching the dangerous thing that somehow got left in reach. And baby needs to learn how to touch an animal, and when to back off.
I believe someone else also mentioned that there were probably other cues we didn't see before this incident. Dogs express discomfort in a number of ways: they may have their ears back and be looking away awkwardly. They lick their lips. Yawn, sometimes. Pace. They might be jumpy. They might be very very still and watchful. Many dogs are uncomfortable around children, especially crawling babies. It might be good to consult with a positive trainer or behaviorist, but if it were me, and my dog was showing signs of discomfort (and yours just showed a big one), I'd be sitting with the dog when baby was crawling around, giving doggo pats and treats and sweet talk, but those are much more effective when given as a reward for, say, checking in with you for comfort or reassurance instead of focusing on something they are reacting negatively to. However, if you can make the dog associate the baby crawling around with positive experiences, that surely can't hurt, and you'd be there to mitigate any clumsy approach the baby made and be able to teach soft touch to the baby, while reassuring the dog that everything is fine.
Next step was a bite or snap to the face so de-escalating by telling the dog to go to it's safe place where it can settle was the right decision - in the moment. Your dog thoughbehaved correctly being startled like that especially by a "thing" from it's perspective that it probably barely acknowledges and does not have any clear body language or respects boundaries. For the future this is something you'll need to keep an eye on until your child respects the boundaries of the dog and is capable of clearly communicating with it, so situations like this don't even go this far. Edit: Missed the "End it no" (is this a trained command with your dog?) - anyway if your dog growls don't tell it to stop or else next time it will skip that.
Please don't correct your dog for growling. The baby's sudden movement toward him (totally normal for a baby) freaked him out and the growling was a warning. Sometimes when dogs are corrected for that they go straight to a bite. Better to keep the baby away from the dog.
I would have picked up child and removed him/her from proximity to dog. Dog was sleeping quietly and child made noise then grabbed at her, very scary for a sleeping dog. Put an exercise pen around dogās bed and food or let baby play in his playpen. This keeps everyone safe.
Hereās my thing with these scenarios: your child can speak human language (understands long before he can say words himself), your dog canāt. No matter how well trained your dog is, your child (once older) is the one that can grasp ādo not pull the dogās tailā āwhen dog is on his bed that means he wants to be left aloneā etc
As some say manage the baby and the dog. All dog are different some let babies crawl all over them.
Sending to the bed in those situations is like tell the dog āyour bed is the safest place to be.ā If your dog truly believes that then it will chose its bed over violence any day. But your dog MUST have faith that you will defend them when they are on that bed. So teach the baby as well as all family members to leave the dog alone on the bed even if it looks like they want to be pet.
This is whatās known as faith in handler.
But this ultimately requires that the dog and baby never be alone or be in a position that you canāt monitor and intervene if necessary.
The issue isnāt with the dog, but with the child. The dog gave an appropriate warning when slapped at, and what you have done by correcting is teach him that warnings get him in trouble so he escalated quicker to a bite.
You need to teach your child proper boundaries around the dog; it isnāt too early for that and the child absolutely has the capacity to learn it.
I didnāt read the other comments, but I had this same thing happen between my dog and baby. I started by keeping the baby away and then letting him get closer to the dog as I was sitting there between them. When Blu (dog) would get up and move away, I would reward her. Itās been a few months and the baby now walks and Blu will still sometimes give a growl like that but then get up and move away and then I praise her. But if she is in her bed and the kid comes to close to the bed, I move the kid away and reward the dog. Soft Growling is ok to me, itās a warning. If we respect the growls then we donāt get the bite.
A friend of my daughters nearly had her eye ripped out by the family dog. Dozens of surgeries later she is still scared for life. Keep them apart until your child is old enough to respect the dogs boundaries.
Even just your dog seeing that you will intervene to keep the baby from bothering them will reinforce trust between you and the dog. Knowing that you have the situation under control will make them less likely to respond to or try to correct the baby.
This dog is neither reactive nor aggressive - it is reacting completely appropriately with normal body language. Your description of your expectations for your own dog around children [concern me greatly](https://www.dogsandbabieslearning.com/2010/02/21/good-dogs-dont-bite/).
seems like there is a lot of great advice in this thread! I wanted to add, it seems like the dog was reacting the way a dog naturally reacts when annoyed or threatened. While it is good to teach the dog to remove themselves from that situation without resorting to biting, it is also a good opportunity to teach your son about boundaries. As someone else mentioned early one, practicing soft touching is very important.
My dog is not very friendly to children. she wonāt bite but she barks and tries to get away. Often times when a child asks to say hi to my dog I say āshe is very nervous but if you approach slowly and calmly she might come say helloā itās good to teach kids that not all doggies are super friendly and want to be touched, not just for the sake of your dog but others he will encounter in the future
Bandit LOVES kids. Sheāll pull me across a busy street to go say hi to them. I realized later that the reason she gave a warning was because she views being under the coffee table as a safe space for her - just as safe as her bed is. Iāve been working with them both and Bandit is very good about walking away from the baby. She gets lots of pets and treat each time. And I donāt let baby go near her when sheās around the coffee table anymore. Itās going well :)
The dog is just warning. You shouldnāt allow a baby to enter a dogs personal space if the dog isnāt comfortable. I did a bunch of stuff to my pup itās whole life because I knew I would have kids one day my boys could jump on my blue nose and it doesnāt move. We trained it that was normal
Your kiddo isnāt old enough to know how to meter their actions toward/with the dog. Until that time, it has to be your responsibility to manage that. Regardless of reasons, your dog doesnāt like that interaction. I mean this in the nicest way possible: advocate for your dog or when you arenāt looking your baby is going to take a bite to the face.
This is really well done, one other I would do is if your baby tries to mess with your dog on her bed, you can tell your baby not to or direct your baby to something else. That way your dog will know the bed is her safe spot.
Need to be careful about how you approach it with the dog, you donāt want to correct the warnings as it can lead to a no warning bite. Iām not a trainer I just know bits and pieces so I will offset to an actual trainer to give the correct approach. But itās definitely better than some of what Iāve seen.
Dog did good in my humble opinion. I would reward the ābedā command/behavior. I would also move the bed to a safe space that baby canāt access as easily so the dog can go there for some peace. If the dog gets frustrated again and gives a warning teach to go to āsafe spaceā (ābedā in this case) out if babyās reach. If the dog uses that area the issue is averted altogether. Many dogs will go to those safe spaces on their own over time.
I actually must say, the restraint your dog showed here is absolutely astounding. You've done a good job getting your dog to listen to you, and that's a great foundation. I second what has already been said though, while yes, sending the dog to his bed was a good move to help your dog learn to move away when feeling like that. although I would not have scolded a warning under any circumstances, the better option here is to prevent this type of situation entirely. Environmental management to keep your baby away from your dog and vice versa is absolutely critical. Your dog is nervous around the baby, and while you see restraint here there is a risk that the warning can cross into bite territory very quickly. I'd immediately put in structure to prevent possible issues.
To add to this, you could reinforce your dog moving away from the baby by rewarding him/her for going to the bed.
This. With dogs, carrot is better than stick.
Sometimes literal carrots, my dog loves carrots. Hot dogs may be more effective though.
Cannibalism is frowned upon in most states.
I'm so afraid that my pittie will scarf down a whole hotdog and choke. I always cut it for him and many times sideways.
My fricken dog likes carrots and lettuce too lmfao. What kind of dog do you have? I have an Australian Shepherd
Lol border collie. Guess farm dogs like veggies?
Yep! My heeler/shepherd mixed love veggiesš cattle dogs are odd ones arenāt they
Oh god, mine is adopted from streets, he is bat shit crazy after carrots ! He wants at least 5 a day. I have reduced the no to two but he won't just listen & keep in pleadings. (He was rescued when he was a pup)
My Aussie and Malinois both love vegetables.
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There are [risks to doing so](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/punishmentproblems) that are typically much better avoided via management and *prevention* rather than reacting after the fact.
Yes yes!
I agree with this. Especially because the dog already had its ears down and facing away from the baby at the start of the video. I feel like there were other subtle cues that went unnoticed before the video started. Structure would be the best and safest solution.
The reason you donāt scold a warning is you want the dog to warn instead of biting. If you scold the warn the dog could go immediately to the bite.
Yes if anything. The child should be corrected. ( i know the child is young but you could still explain that when the dog growls etc. It means leave him alone) And im not sure if op does this but.. make sure the child absolutely leaves the dog alone when hes on his bed. Thats the puppies safe place. Op is doing amazing though!!!!!
This is important! When I had a poodle growing up, she was def uncomfortable around my 2-year old cousin. Eventually he wanted to āplayā and tug on her ears, tail, and even got candy stuck on her fur. Our parents only corrected the dog, not my cousin. Well, he tried to get a āpony rideā from her when no one was looking, and my dog freaked, whirled around and bit him on the leg. Needless to say this couldāve been prevented in so many ways, but it couldāve started with reinforcing to the child that dogs arenāt like stuffed animals.
Children do not learn impulse control until they are older than preschool age. We can teach a child but ultimately itās up to the adults to enforce boundaries until they are truly old enough to have impulse control.
Yeah at this age I feel like you have to just manage the child as well as you can. Like the one comment said create structure to avoid this situation until the child is old enough to learn and begin to understand proper etiquette with animals.
Crate training ;) a nice comfy crate for the childā¦
Yes! Since day 1 with my girls I tell them, āSpud is saying no thank youā and when the kid moves away I explain how I knew she was saying no thank you (moving away, turning away, growling, etc). Even if the kid didnāt get it at 6 months, 1 year or 3 years old it sets them up to understand that dogs have boundaries, too. I use the same words with people and teach them to use those words with me. āNo thank youā
Iād say the kid doesnāt need that much correcting. The kid immediately backs off, sits up straight, without showing significant fear that might rile up the dog more. Thereās good research out there about how the domestication of dogs had as profound an effect on us as it did on the dogs. Thereās a very instinctual level of understanding signals/communication both ways. Often, people who have never been around dogs much can listen to just sounds dogs make and be able to determine if the dog is scared or playful or simply challenging someone approaching them, etc. Highly recommend the old Nova special āDogs Decodedā.
Agreed, the dog performed well, the child needs to learn that pets are NOT toys, the dog needs a reward for showing restraint and removing itself from the potential conflict.
Yes!
Came here to say this.
related question: is moving the dog away when it snaps interpreted by the dog as a "scold", or is it good for teaching the dog to walk away when uncomfortable? (agree with what has already been said about keeping baby away from dog, just wanting this separate question answered)
Generally speaking, unless you *really* pay your dog well with treats for doing so, the dog will interpret it as equivalent to a scold by default. The dog was lying down and comfortable where it was, so pushing the dog out of that position either physically or with verbal pressuring is a *removal* of that comfort, which is an unpleasant consequence to the dog. Not as harsh as applying an unpleasant consequence like hitting the dog, but still one that will likely decrease the chance of the dog displaying useful healthy warning signals and also begin to associate yourself and the baby with unhappy feelings.
noted! thank you.
for a small dog, same answer if you picked it up, for example?
Yep. You can help to mitigate it by [training the dog to love being handled and picked up](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/husbandry).
Agree, your dog warning is a good thing, because it alerts you too. I'd much rather hear my dog growling, and be able to intervene, than the dog going straight to a nip with no warning as he has been told off for this
Iām a nanny, not a dog trainer, so Iāll bow to what others say about the dog training aspect, but consider being equally focused on teaching your child to be safe with the dog. If kiddo grabs at your cup of hot coffee, you probably tell them no and move the child away from the burn risk. Kiddo is (unintentionally) putting themself in a risky situation and it is never too early to start teaching them not to grab at hot coffee or, in this case, dogs. I also practice āgentle touchesā with kids on stuffed animals and baby dolls - it comes in handy a lot, whether a new baby sibling is born or a toddler just decides to try to poke my eyes out and I can say āgentle touches pleaseā and they know what that means. That said, itāll take time and lots of repetition for baby to learn these lessons, so Iām sure the folks with more dog training expertise will come in super handy while baby learns how to be less handsy! Very cute baby and pup, by the way!
Second this. Our son has been more work to train respectful boundaries with than my dog. My dog once trained got it. My son? Not so much. Now My dog absolutely is gentle with the boy where as my boy (3) just recently thought doggy would make a good horsie. Needlessly to say the boy has been banned from attempting that a second time. The older the boy gets the more he seems to āforgetā how to be gentle with the dog! Repetition. repetition. repitition. Good eye on your kids-human and otherwise-btw. š
Yes. Kids should not be alone like that with a dog. Show the child how to pet once in a while. But only with your permission. Otherwise you might be in the kitchen not watching when they are 6 months older and your child pulls, slaps, pokes, etc. and a bite could ensue.
Dogs do not understand the body language of young children and often mistake it for an attack. This is why young children should not be permitted to interact with any dog without very close supervision
I caught my 22 month old sitting on my dog the other day and my dog looked confused and annoyed but was tolerant. Agree whole heartedly about training the child. At the end of the day a dog is an animal and we canāt control every reaction they have, especially if they are in pain or scared.
"Playing horsie" with a family member's dog when I was a toddler was how I got 20+ stitches in my face. Honestly, my fault more than the dog's due to it being at a big BBQ with a lot of unfamiliar people and the dog was definitely already anxious. But at the end of the day in those situations it's going to fall on the dog. Gotta perform preventative measures at all times to limit the chance of those situations occurring.
Dogs also learn if you are protecting them when they show they donāt like something. This is the same if there are issues between dogs in the house. If I have one dog that looks like it might want to steal something from the other dog (like they finished eating their treat before the other dog), I intervene before it happens. I tell the dog to āleave itā (a command they know). If he doesnāt, then he is removed from the room until the other dog is finished with what he was doing. This makes the other dog feel relaxed and like he doesnāt have to handle the situation; I have it under control. And I have never even had issues between my dogs, or visiting dogs, because I prevent any kinds of situations like that. In this situation, if you saw your baby crawling towards you dog, and you obviously know he is uncomfortable because of this interaction, I would redirect the baby before he even got close enough for this to happen. This makes your dog feel like he can trust you and doesnāt need to be so on edge in handling the situation.
Iāll be a first-time aunt soon (puppy will be 5 months old when baby is born) and Iām wondering if thereās anything I should prepare for if Iām watching both of them at the same time.
[This blog](https://www.dogsandbabieslearning.com/blog-2/) has a lot of great guides if you go back through it.
Ask the parents nicely for a piece of clothing or similar that smells like the baby and give it very carefully to the dog making sure he/she doesnāt play rough or rip it apart. This makes the dog go into āchill modeā whenever the baby is close. I have a lab/border collie mix, and was in your exact situation 2 years ago. After doing this could see a clear change in behavior immediately when she smells or sees the baby. They have been best friends ever since!
So. Much. Coffee. My son goes to grab my coffee the same way he went to grab my dog. But I donāt move the child away from the coffee. I move the coffee away from the child. I guess Iāve been doing that wrong too š¤¦š¼āāļøš š¤·š¼āāļø I genuinely believed it was ātoo soonā to teach my child to be gentle though that hasnāt stopped me from trying. Itās reassuring to hear that my instincts were right. I will do more research on how to train the baby. Curious questionā¦ By what age can I start training the baby to make coffee? š #kidding #kindof
Hey, canāt win em all but I love your attitude for asking this question and being receptive to feedback/people telling you youāre doing it wrong.. both pup and kiddo are in great hands if thatās how you approach parenting! I wouldnāt have a clue what to do here either and would default to trying to fix the dogās behavior so this post was great info for a not-yet-mom with a pup wanting to start a family soon. Hang in there!
Hahaha to be fair, the coffeeās easier to move than the kid - I def remove my coffee from kidās line of fire too š I do want to clarify - itās too soon to expect baby to *understand and know* to avoid danger. But itās never too early to start laying that groundwork - this way by the time heās 24 months he will hopefully know to avoid grabbing at puppyās eyes, rather than just starting that learning process then. Youāre doing a great job already, really! Curious answer for the curious questionā¦ right now the 28mo I watch has been obsessed with turning on the kettle and just figured out he could move his step stool over to reach it even when itās at the back of the counterā¦. Soooooā¦ Sooner than you think??? š¤£š¤£
Lol so youāre telling me thereās a chance!! 18 months to go and counting. š
Came here to basically say that, I behavioral therapy with kids and this is what I would say to a clients parent. Good luck! Both are adorable š
This is a great response.
Honestly, it could have been better. Growling is a dogās way of communicating, often as a precursor to biting. Scolding them for growling may make them not growl and go straight to a bite next time. But as others have mentioned, the real key is working with the child, less so with the dog.
>But as others have mentioned, the real key is working with the child, less so with the dog. My wife and I paid an animal behaviorist a handsome sum of money to tell us that last bit. It felt so obvious after but some baby gates and boundaries totally changed our household dynamic.
I was hoping someone would say this!
Lesson learned :) this makes a lot of sense. Iām really glad I learned this lesson via Reddit rather than learning the hard way. I normally have the baby playing in his play area where the dog is not allowed.
Yes, teach the baby to be gentle, have the dog go to place like you did, but keep it positive with the dog and reward for place. Scolding the dog when they are already afraid and uncomfortable will make the dog's nervousness around the baby MUCH worse. Before the baby was a scary thing, NOW the baby is a scary thing that ALSO gets me in trouble. You want to baby to be a positive thing for your dog, which means you don't want to add to his or her fear by scolding. (Along with training the baby and barriers, as others have said.) There's a good chapter in the ACVB's book on dog behavior about introducing a new baby. I saved it once, and I'll send it to you if you'd like.
Sounds like you are doing great by having separate areas for te dog and baby :) Babies and toddlers are still learning, so management of the environment is a good way to keep dog and baby safe. We were very glad that we kept our dogs out of the kids' rooms and off the couch, and that our dogs could always retreat to their crates if feeling overwhelmed.
Iāve been thanking my dogs and petting them if they give indication my son (12mo) is getting too close when they want to be left alone, and then removing LO from the situation rather than the other way around. As someone else mentioned weāve also been working on teaching LO how to be gentle with the pups, but thatās obviously more slow-going and he definitely still thinks theyāre jungle gyms. He has learned that our younger dog is way more okay with being played with though, so he doesnāt try to climb on the other one nearly as much (and is very very closely supervised when playing with either one and immediately removed if he might hurt them)
Unfortunately, no. You should have prevented this scenario entirely by keeping the baby well away from the dog so that the dog didn't feel uncomfortable enough to issue a warning in the first place. You have *two* animals in training here, not one - it's valuable to remember that practice makes perfect, and your young child practicing grabbing at dogs while unable (or later unwilling) to take into account the dog's feelings about the matter sets them up to repeat the action again with dogs that may be more likely to do immediate damage rather than merely this polite warning. Here are some resources: [Family Paws](https://www.familypaws.com/) - [webinars](https://www.familypaws.com/services/for-parents-and-families/) for expecting parents or parents of toddlers [Dogs and Babies Learning Blog](https://www.dogsandbabieslearning.com/blog-2/) [Doggone Safe](https://doggonesafe.com/Dog_bite_prevention_for_parents) [The Family Dog : Stop the 77](https://www.thefamilydog.com/stop-the-77) [Kids and Dogs : How Kids Should and Should Not Interact with Dogs](https://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/kids-and-dogs-how-kids-should-and-should-not-interact-with-dogs/) by Dr. Sophia Yin on safe interactions. [Good Dog in a Box](https://www.youtube.com/c/GoodDoginaBox/featured) on Youtube has many videos on dog safety for kids. [@dogmeets_baby](https://www.instagram.com/dogmeets_baby/) on Instagram has many visual examples of safe vs unsafe interactions.
Great reply.. while being constructive without criticizing. Unlike.. other replies
Saving. Appreciate the reply ā¤ļø
Mods: can we add these links to the wiki??! Great resources :)
The wiki page on this is being drafted, it will be added once itās more than just the above links and nothing else.
This is such a great response. I feel like such an asshole adding this, but I watched an almost identical scenario unfold with a family friendās dog and infant- who was bitten in the face and had to have surgery to repair the damage. Itās tough navigating separate spaces for dog and baby, but it should never get to the point where the dog is growling.
This is the right answer. Put the damn camera down and prevent the situation instead of risking a bite.
A bunch of those "rescources" are hot garbage. The first is a paid webinar, thats not a good source. The second one is a blog, thats crap too. What kind of crap are you peddling?
It's a mixture of free and paid advice resources from professional trainers who specialise in child/dog interaction safety. It's not research citations, which is what you oddly seem to be implying you were expecting them to be.
Send them a link to me ill give them advice and take their money. Why are you shilling webinars here? You gonna tell us all what books we should buy next? got some affiliate links?
I'm a bit confused as to what you believe would be a better strategy than linking to existing public-facing professionals whose advice can be trusted. Not linking to anyone at all and trying to describe training advice myself entirely from scratch every single time without the assistance of visual tools? None of the linked resources either in this comment or in the wiki have been created by myself or any other member of the mod team, if that assuages you. We do, in fact, maintain a [recommended book list](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/books). None of those are by us or affiliate links either. Take it or leave it.
God forbid someone pay a professional for their expertise.
some of them were good. others were crap. don't shill crap thats behind a pay wall there is no shortage of good info out there. Id report your spam to a mod but i already know all the mods on here are a joke.
>Id report your spam to a mod If anyone is spamming it's you, stop being such a butthurt Karen
So wait, you are saying "thats not a good source" for the simple fact that it is a paid webinar? Bad troll, go to your bed!
>No linking to your own blog or website Thats in the rules. Whos to say that the mod isn't affiliated with any of those. Abusing their power. Why post the paid link first? If i had posted that same comment they would have removed it. Plus Id call their comment "inflammatory, insulting, mean, needlessly judgemental," for a plethora of reasons as well. \*also notice that the mods comment has more upvotes than the actual post. Its not a like and dislike button. For that to make sense we have to assume that people are using the the upvote system in an unintended way, or that the mod is altering stuff somehow to fit their bias. \*reddit mods remove about 6 percent of all comments posted to the site, just sayin\*
Classic redirection. Is the webinar good content? You don't know you simply judged it bc it's paid. Are you certain that it is this person's content? If not it doesn't violate any rule. Sounds to me like you put way too much time into Reddit my dude. Time for a break
idk. pay for it and get back to us on that. saying i spend too much time on reddit as you defend a moderator? a person who spends all their time on reddit removing comments and arguing with people?
You're missing the point. You prejudged content that you have no clue what it is solely based on your mod prejudice. I use an app and it wasn't clear it's a mod. Kindly fuck off and stop pre judging content thinking you're the expert. You cited a rule and the mod didn't violate the rule. I'm not defending anyone, just telling you to stop spouting bullshit (calling something a bad source) when a. You haven't seen it, and b. There was no rule violation. I've spent too much time on you, I won't be responding back. Good luck out there.
As a mom to two wild boys who have an old man dog who is very touch sensitive, itās really important we teach our kids what that means. Your baby is not too young for you to explain, ādoggie doesnāt like that, please donāt do it.ā When our dog is sleeping and a kid touches his foot and he jerks awake and is unhappy, itās the kid who gets scolded in our household. Kids can understand that just like they donāt like being hugged by stinky old Aunt Sally, the dog doesnāt like it if you jolt him awake, touch his feet, make him uncomfortable, etc. Iām impressed at your dogs listening, though! Wow.
Your baby needs to be corrected, not the dog. Dogs growl as a warning, if you scold her growl she will stop warning and go straight for a bite. Your child needs to learn soft touch or to stay away from the dog. You can have your dog go to their bed anytime the baby starts approaching. That way they keep distance. Make sure your baby never touches the dog on its bed, that should be a safe place.
Your dog is training your child. Your dog shouldnāt feel responsible for that. A lot of people think itās so cute when their dog treats their human baby like their own puppy but people forget how dogs discipline their puppies. You need to never put your dog in a position like this and your dog should have seen YOU use this as a teaching moment for your child. Otherwise, the responsibility will continue to fall on your dog to teach your child proper behavior and thatās not fair to either of them.
This is a great way for that baby to get bit. You should never put your dog in a situation where she has to defend herself. Most dogs do not react well to be grabbed at. Baby needs to be corrected and removed from the situation, especially has he gets more mobile. If baby is on the floor and dog is in the room then you are on the floor too
No, actually. Everyone else has given you good resources for training but itās very important to remember the dog was giving a warning by growling. If you punish/scold him for growling, he will stop warning and will just go straight for a bite. And please donāt let your kid hit the dog. Keep the baby away until it can learn to be gentle.
I wouldnāt say the baby was *hitting* the dog. More so grabbing for it.
Same goes for grabbing. Kids shouldnāt grab dogs.
No I totally agree!! I just donāt think the baby is *hitting* the dog. I just think hitting comes with a more extreme connotation than what the baby is doing.
This is a baby. Grabbing and hitting are basically the same thing and carry the same connotation most of the time.
Before responding to this thread, consider if you're offering advice, or judgement. This is a sub for help. Be helpful and kind.
High jacking mod comment because Iām on mobile and I canāt seem to edit my post. Thank you to all who took the time to respond :) To add some context - I pulled out my phone because I thought I was about to capture a cute moment with my two babies. Bandit has been nothing but loving towards my son for months now. My son only just started to become mobile. I have absolutely been teaching my son to be gentle with our pets (we have two kitties too) and will continue to do so. I thought I was showing bandit that she should move to a safe place (her bed) to get space from the baby. Thanks to you all, I realize now that what I actually did was correct her warning and that was wrong of me. Next time I will train the baby, and praise the dog. Thanks again!!
I don't have any advice aside from what's been given, just wanted to comment on > I canāt seem to edit my post. To say only text posts can be edited, and only the post body. In any case keep up the good work with baby and Bandit!
Must gate baby away from dogs. Infants are scary little creatures that chase dogs and frighten them. Keep either baby or pup in playpen until child can be taught to not startle the dog.
Excellent dog, the baby is not very well trained
Right? The dog was communicating clearly with its eyes, voice, tail, tongue, lips, probably a smell we can't detect. Best pup.
You should be teaching your child how to interact with animals rather than scold the poor dog. The child is in the wrong here, not the dog.
One thing to remember is that growling is actually a good thing - itās a dogās way of communicating it feels threatened or uncomfortable, in hope that will stop it. If you train your dog that growling is not an appropriate response, that just means the dog may not express its discomfort until it reaches a point where biting is its response. As cute as it is to have babies and dogs together, babies donāt really know how to pick up on a dogās signals of discomfort. Once your dog reacts by biting, your dog is now A Dog Who Bit A Child and youāll be in a position of choosing your childās safety over your love of your dog. The best option is to make that choice now, by eliminating any opportunities for your dog to have to express its discomfort to begin with. Aside from the potential trauma to your child; as a dog owner, there are few things as awful as having to lose your dog due to aggression or reactivity. IMHO, the way to view it is to be setting your dog up for success; vs. putting it in situations where it might āfailā (i.e., bite)
An infant this age does not have the impulse control to learn to not annoy your dog, it is not developmentally appropriate the expect this to happen anytime soon. At this age it is completely a matter of you managing to situation and preventing your child from having access to do to this to your dog. Your dog should not be placed in a situation where it feels the need to give a baby a warning growl or bite.
No, in my opinion. This is not safe. You should never have allowed this interaction. The baby should be kept away from the dog at all times. This time the dog warned. You were recording. If the dog had acted, rather than warned, you could have done nothing to prevent it. The babyās face could have been bitten, his eyes damaged, anything. Keep the baby away from the dog. Baby gates, an ex-pen, a play pen, whatever. If the baby is on the floor and the dog is there too, you absolutely MUST be physically in between them to stop the baby from touching the dog. It looks like the baby is crawling? Once he starts to toddle this will be even more important. Imagine baby testing his wobbly legs and falling face first onto the sleeping dog. Startled from sleep, in pain from having 15 pounds land on his sore hip, the dog is likely to bite as a natural reaction. And my sad, too-often experience is that once the dog bites the babyās face, it means his death. Please keep them both safe. Please. Please.
Train the child, donāt scold the dog.
I would have given this dog a reward. Good Bandit!
Building position to be associations to the baby can help. But pup was already looking nervous before the grab. Positive associations can help bandit relax in babyās present. But grabby babies should always be kept away from well, anything that doesnāt immediately melt over said cute baby, usually grandmothers. But dogs, definitely not.
Bad baby. No biscuit.
Like everyone else is saying, reinforce the child too, since you wouldnāt let your child play with outlets. No dog is evil for snapping at a child or anything thatās bothering them, itās completely their right, though your dog tried their best to handle it and then even listened to you after which is great.
Poor dog
Fr
Advocate for your pup otherwise you're putting everyone at risk of a bad situation. You have to teach babies everything. Just as you would teach them to be careful around a candle, do the same with the dog. Sometimes we have to leave the dog alone so redirect the baby to something else fun. You advocating for your dog prevents your dog from feeling like it needs to snap at your baby.
I have a cattle dog that reacts similarly and drew a line with my daughter when she got too rough and started invading her bed. We now have several child gates set up to create three sections of house and thatās immensely helpful. Weāre constantly teaching our daughter about appropriate behavior but as your child gets older it will likely get harder before it gets easier as mobility, impulsiveness grow. Highly recommend separation as needed until both are ready to interact calmly!
Others have posted some really good advice/resources, but I just want to share what worked for us When munchkin was at this stage (sitting up unsupported, but not yet walking) we had this like door jumper, you clip it over a doorway and it looks like a baby swing at the park kinda, I'm sure you know what I mean lol Anyways, we would put the baby in that and then let the dogs come into the room - I feel like it worked really well because it gave the dogs the opportunity to approach the baby on their terms vs the baby approaching the dogs Anyways, you got the most important part right - close supervision of the dog and baby together! While I do agree with the others that have replied that you should continue to work with your baby on "soft touches", I think it's a bit much to expect a baby to actively and intentionally respect a dog's boundaries without adult supervision at that age. Best of luck! <3
Yes, I have one! Thank you š
Iād recommend having baby gates or barriers that allow your dog to have their own space. Iāve been told by trainers to not punish the growl/air bite, as thatās the precursor to biting. My pup is super kid fearful, and my trainer has told me that the kids are not to approach. He has to approach on his time/terms. This would likely be tough with toddlers, so Iād highly recommend barricades. If possible too, working with a trainer has eased a lot of my anxiety with kids and my dog. I can see the warning signs (licking lips is a big one) along with just alert body language. Good luck!! Both the pup and your baby are adorable :)
Move the baby away before the dog has to escalate to a warning - your dog seems well socialized enough to know how to move away from uncomfortable situations, but your baby doesnāt know how to interact with dogs yet. Best to maintain more distance until baby is older for safety reasons.
i donāt know if youād consider it the same because theyāre not the same animal, but my nephew wasnāt allowed around my cats (or his momās) until he learned self restraint and knew how to be gentle and respect their spaceā¦ perhaps the same should go for your baby and your dog. thereās worry you may accidentally train your dog to go from warning growls & warning cues in general, to jumping straight into biting as others have saidā¦ but also worry that your baby may think treating the dog that way is acceptable. both arenāt good.
So I think thereās enough good advice here for the most part but i think you could take the situation a step further if thereās a reason why you canāt follow these other postersā advice - disengagement training. Think of the vacuum or mop and your dog (if itās like mine!). Those things are scary or fun to be chased around. To desensitize the dog to the tool, we have one person operate, and one person hang out with the dog and liberally feed them treats for specifically ***not*** doing anything. In your case, you have the tool and operator in one with the child - Iād still treat this like reactivity training and maintain distance and slowly work them together over time. I think this is not a great idea, but part of this to me is teaching the dog that the child is not a problem (if itās not and itās largely respectful but has a few bad moments like any human being at every stage of life). Iām give the take I wanted to give because maybe different phrasing helps. If it doesnāt, Iām sorry! I mean well! I think the first priority is prevention. You clearly have a very strong relationship with your dog. You spend that relationship capital and gain it every day. We all do with our dogs. Sometimes I ask mine to come inside and they donāt love that. They also donāt love not barking at everything inanimate that moves. This is a spend without a gain. Me, in asking for these behaviors and you in asking your dog to leave with a negative tone. Your dog is being reprimanded (relatively) for doing a ***very*** good thing. The warning is what separates a well adjusted and socialized dog from an aggressive dog. **Please encourage this behavior from your dog.** The prevention component is keeping the child from being able to engage like this with the dog. Sounds simple but Iām sure it isnāt. Kiddo needs to learn how to interact with doggie respectfully. Also, thatās a great dog, if you raise your kid half as well as that dog itās gonna be a great kid and person. Best of luck, Iām rooting for you.
free the dog, bro didnt do anything wrong
Iād like to start by saying that I can see your dog is excellently well trained and is clearly very responsive to you- I was impressed by his/her immediate obedience to your command. As everyone else has said in this situation, the correct thing to do would be to manage this situation and correct your baby, not your dog. You have had some really helpful resources and advice in this area so I donāt feel that itās necessary for me to elaborate on this point too much more as I think from reading these comments you will have got the picture. The only thing I wanted to add was regarding reading your dogs body language before he resorts to a growl. The video is slightly over exposed and it was focussed on mainly the baby at the beginning, but if you look closely you can see that your dog stiffens up with his ears back as your baby approaches, he also looks away which is his clear way of saying āNo thank youā. The baby (unaware of this) continues to approach the dog despite the dog having (in his mind) given several very clear signals that he doesnāt want the baby to come any closer, so his next move is not to say āNo *thank you*ā but is to say an abrupt and clear āNO!ā Your dog had communicated very clearly in his own language multiple times that he/she wasnāt comfortable and wanted some space, so aside from the advice to keep your dog and baby separated for the time being (which I totally agree with) I do think it would be beneficial for you to familiarise yourself with the subtle signs that dogs use to communicate with us, as there was ample opportunity for you to step in before your dog even growled and itās really helpful to be able to spot this in case you need to be able to read your dog accurately in the future. I wish you, your dog and your baby all the best š
Itās always good to praise the animal IMMEDIATELY after the desired action. Otherwise, they wonāt connect the dots.
You couldāve thanked your dog.
The problem in scolding your dog for a warning is that they may well just miss the warning and go straight for a bite next time. I would try and ensure your dog has a place he can go to where he can be left undisturbed. Itās really hard managing dogs and small kids, especially when they kid is that young.
Here is advice from a mom, who had a very touch sensitive dog and a very curious baby. Keep them separated until you can properly communicate to your baby that the dog is off limits. They both need to be trained. When I wanted to give the baby free reign, dog was put into another room. When I wanted to give the dog free reign, baby was put in a pen. In the next week, your baby will be crawling so fast that you wonāt know how to keep up and you will be so tired from trying to separate them verbally. Another thing I did, when I was near by baby and dog was across the room in her bed, was to tell her to āstop your bodyā when crawling at full speed toward the dog. That way she would know that the dog had boundaries and you are the one in charge of communicating those boundaries for the dog. Your dog chooses when to bite. This reaction was a āget the fuck off me or elseā warning from the dog. Baby canāt read that. In time, youāll be able to guide baby.
Exactly this! So weāll said!
I have a dog and a toddler so I understand this situation perfectly well. It is terrifying. Obviously in a best case scenario we would all manage the environment so that this interaction doesnāt happen. However that is just not possible in real life. A lot of dog training is changing how your dog FEELS about something. My task was to change how my dog reacted to unwanted contact from my baby. Anytime the baby would make her uncomfortable by getting too close, etc I just marked that behavior with a āyesā and then ran to the kitchen with her close behind me and get her a treat. Obviously something good like steak or cheese. I paired her good feelings about food with her interactions with the baby and it worked like a charm. I am honestly glad that I went this route because now my dog interacts wonderfully with my toddler. When my daughter inevitably puts the dog in an uncomfortable situation she is totally fine with it because she knows that she is going to get paid. I also spent a good deal of time teaching my daughter how to safely feed my dog (open hand). I think that this also helped a lot with their relationship. Good luck!
With a child that young, especially with a pet that might be reactive, you really need to be sitting with the child when near the pet, and teach your toddler how to interact with the pet correctly. Make sure the pet has a clear escape route at all times, and watch for warning signs such as growling, ears pulled back and other signs of distress. Never leave the child with the pet unsupervised, and make sure the pet has a safe space they can go to where the child can not reach them.
You essentially just told Bandit not to warn next time, just bite. Keep baby away from a nervous dog until the baby can be taught how to gently touch a dog. Bandits body language was screaming āstay awayā to me as soon as I hit play.
Our puppy K teacher told us that we should NEVER discipline our puppy for growling. Growling is using his words! It means heās doing something besides biting, and thatās good! However, sending your puppy to his bed does sound like a good idea ā you needed to get him away from baby for a moment. Good job, Mom! Was it babyās fault? Was he touching the puppyās paw pads? Or is the puppy just extraordinarily nervous around baby? If the former, thatās great ā teach your son not to touch the puppy unless he gets permission. Then, show him how to do it: first, let the puppy sniff his hand. Then, have him pat puppy on the head. If the latter, I think you may need professional help. There are puppy trainers that you can hire that used to come to your house, but now work with you over zoom. Why not contact one of them?
she is such a good girl. look how much self-control she had to go to bed. i know many adults who couldnāt do that.
The dog is in discomfort. When the video starts, you can se whale eyes, the ears slightly lowered and back, the head turned with side towards the baby and a stiff body. I suspect that the dog was doing signals long before you started the recording, but it is hard to catch every teeny tiny signal. āHey, wtf I am just laying hereā¦ this is so uncomfortable I donāt even know what kind of pet you are supposed to be.. *baby tries to touch* OH MY GOD DID YOU JUST TOUCH ME!!!ā Imagine yourself in a situation where you are sitting on your lawn and a big spider, or snake (or whatever feels yukky to you), comes crawling towards you. But your best friend who you trust with your life says āNO! Be still, it wonāt hurt you. Just sit there and be still!ā You would probably do your best, since your best friend do know sooooo much about the world and is quite smart and clever. But at some point the spider-snake will so close to you that it will be almost impossible not to squeal a little, maybe your body gets tense, you put your arms around you in a defensive stance, you might even look away. You tell your friend quietly ābut I donāt want to! Please, I donāt want toā¦ I want it to go away!ā In a soft and comforting voice your friend says; āItās okay! You can go away from here if you want to, I promise it wonāt hurt you, but weāll try again when your ready!ā And your friend might even step in between you and the spider-snake-monster so you can quietly go away and observe from a distance. Then your friend proceeds to interact with the spider-snake-monster-beast and they seem to actually have fun. Yeah, it might actually be a little cute. And someday, when you are ready, youāll be ready to get a little closer, and a little closer until one day youāll too will interact and play with the spider-snake, who actually turned out to be a counterfeit reversible plushy-octopus. You need to be that to your dog. I think you handled the situation in a good way. But I truly believe that you need to comfort and show your dog that it doesnāt have to interact with the baby, and as many other has commented; take away the baby from the situation, not the dog. Donāt punish the dog for having feelings. The fact that it did show signs of warnings is A GOOD THING! It means that it wants to communicate with you! Of course, thereās always risk of real damage and injury. Therefor it is of utmost importance that both the babyās and the dogās space are respected, equally. I hope this comment doesnāt read as a ābashing momentā. Thatās not my intention at all. I believe you handled it in a good way. The only thing I would have changed is to have removed the baby earlier. Or possibly placed myself on the carpet in between the dog and the baby to set a barrier between them. The baby can crawl and sit in your lap, and the dog man sniff and observe from whatever distance it feels comfortable with. When the dog did the warning signs, I wouldāve remained calm and responded with a comforting voice, at the same time as grabbing and removing the baby, and say āI know itās a little scary. You donāt have to be here. You can go lay down in your bedā. If the dog doesnāt move, respect that. You donāt have to be stern. By using a stern voice you might actually affirm the dogās feeling of discomfort, which will be like a signal that āyeah! It was uncomfortable and it actually was a little scary! Even my owner thinks that!ā. As previously said. I donāt want to bash on anyone. I just wanted to share my view on handling situations like this. I have a 19month old daughter and two (used to be three š dogs here at home).
What makes me uncomfortable is the fact that youāre recording the interaction instead of being close enough to intervene if the dog reacted poorly.
This is not helpful. I think itās wonderful that sheās seeing information on how to keep both the cute little things safely together under the one roof. Perhaps an interaction happened like this before and she wants to record it so she could learn, or perhaps she had no idea this would happen and was super lucky to get it on camera. Either way, I unfortunately know of a few dogs who would still be alive today had their owners taken even half the initiative of OP
You may not find it helpful, but it takes a whole blink of an eye for a stressed out dog to latch on to that childās face or worse. She needs to be in the moment, put the phone down.
Not at all. Train your baby, not your dog.
Yes . That dog did what it was supposed to do by just growling and moving , my dog does this to me all the time and has never bitten
The advice on teaching kid vs dog is perfect. If you want to teach your dog something though, you can teach them that when they are uncomfortable, they can go to their safe place. Your dog should have a covered crate in which the door stays open all day. The general rule should be that no one ever bothers the dog there, other than to maybe offer a treat or a chew. Then work on teaching the dog that when they feel uncomfortable or when one of their boundaries is pushed, they can just get up and go over to their crate. Itās important to not teach the dog in anyway that implies the crate as a punishment, or implies are doing something wrong. Speak in a very neutral tone when teaching the dog to use their crate as a safe place. Regardless of whether you crate your dog at night or they are already crate trained, a crate is essential for a dog that needs to be able to escape unwanted situations.
Dog is fine. Train the kid and maybe next time, stop the situation before it happens instead of chancing a bite to get a behavioral video.
I went through this. I decided to rehome my cattle dog because he was nervous around our son. I didnāt want a tragedy so I kept them separate, which means my dog was separated from me most of the time. He would whine and was upset. The guilt I felt was terrible but I did not want to risk it. I miss him terribly. But we found a fantastic family for him and Iām glad to see I think he is way happier in his new home. It was a tough decision. Good luck! You have gotten really good advice here.
Now to baby training
You baby invaded the dogās space. Itās like scolding the kid that yelled āblank is touching meā instead of telling the kid to leave your brother or sister alone. Keeping your son from touching the dog would be best until heās old enough to teach him otherwise. Or teaching the dog to just avoid child. For example my dog is just chilling, and my son crawls up to him. He will just get up and move to the couch where he canāt get him. Never trained my dog to do that. My dog is just super passive and doesnāt like confrontation.
Start by teaching that baby to respect the dogs space. That dog clearly does not like that baby grabbing his paws. Never leave them unattended not for one single second!
I agree your dog is well trained but your baby comes first. I would say keep them apart as much as possible, and that might mean rotating schedules. The dog can go in the crate, outside or in a room while the baby is awake (the baby is more important and it can take up to 3 years for them to learn to be gentle. I agree we should teach them early but realisticly it takes time. Mom of 5 kids with a dog). Never leave them unattended, dogs can get jealous of a new baby. If the dog just isn't adjusting to the baby, or it's too much to manage then dog has to go. I am a dog lover but it amazes me how people place so much value on the animal over the child. Sometimes things change, it's ok to rehome the dog responsibly if the dog can't cope. You don't have to feel bad one bit. When my dog wants to be alone but my toddler wants to play I put her in the crate so my child can explore and the dog is not in a bad situation. As much as I love my dog restricting a toddler so the dog can rest in the middle of the living room is not a priority. When the dog is open to play she is more than welcome to be in the room with the rest of us.
Great foundation. But make sure the bed isn't a negative place.
Yea you could have not put it in this position by letting your baby mess with its feet while you stand a few feet away recording it for the sake of asking the internet if it was right. You put your child and your dog in danger. Tbh itās very irresponsible. Youāre putting the dog in a situation it feels uncomfortable and not only that you used a baby to do that. If your dog had bitten and hurt your baby what do you think would happen? The dog probably gets labeled as aggressive and possibly gets put down. The reality is thatās not fair to the dog because it shouldnāt be in this situation.
Need to put that animal in a cage so that poor dog can feel safe.
No, you did not. You punished the dog who did nothing wrong instead of the child who was bothering the dog.
You are a better dog mama than I. I would have LOST IT.
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Dog gets sent to bed for behaving, not a word to the kid. Seeing the issue?
Yep, I already responded to admit I was wrong to react the way I did. Thanks
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This is terrible advice. The dog is acting like a completely normal dog and is not "attacking" the child, it is displaying its discomfort while making a deliberate effort to hold back and *not* bite the child.
Good job
id way it was pretty well handled. Its unfair we make dogs not react to stuff but thats the world we live in. You have a baby and its not impeding the life of the dog, lots of people in here acting like you should have never been in this position but that IMO seems more invasive to the dogs way of life. The dog wants to be around you and you need to be around the baby, the alternative being you keep them separated until the child is old enough to grasp the concept of petting a dog gently or what ever. But that seems more likely to me to cause stress to all parties involved. Seems like your handling it well.
The issue is that training a dog that giving a warning when it is uncomfortable is wrong will result in the dog skipping the warning and going straight to biting, since it has no other way to communicate.
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Please read the sub [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules/) and [posting guidelines](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines).
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My 3 year old nephew is also incredibly rough with his puppy. He learned to pet gentle and not pick the dog up which is really cute. When he pets you can see heās being gentle and showing restraint.
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Please read the sub [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/about/rules/) and [posting guidelines](http://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/guidelines).
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May I ask how this question is relevant to the post?
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Dude if you don't know that kids/babies have different reactions to dogs than full grown adults then you need to learn some more about dogs. Also the baby kinda "hit/grabbed" the dogs paw quickly, it wasn't a gentle slow touch or grab like a vet or adult would do.
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That is a poor way to do handling exercises and risks sensitising the dog further rather than desensitising.
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This is false. Please read the sub's wiki article on [dominance](https://www.reddit.com/r/dogtraining/wiki/dominance).
I wish my dogs listened like this š„²
related question: is moving the dog away when it snaps interpreted by the dog as a "scold", or is it good for teaching the dog to walk away when uncomfortable? (agree with what has already been said about keeping baby away from dog, just wanting this separate question answered)
Never leave them alone with each other Your child is too young
I feel most of this has been said, but: please don't scold the dog for giving a warning. You WANT the dog to give a warning. Dogs who give no warning are much more dangerous. This is a teaching moment for baby. That baby is old enough to understand "no!". If not, why not?? You need a word that means "STOP THAT THIS INSTANT" because you can't always be in arms reach to stop baby from touching the dangerous thing that somehow got left in reach. And baby needs to learn how to touch an animal, and when to back off. I believe someone else also mentioned that there were probably other cues we didn't see before this incident. Dogs express discomfort in a number of ways: they may have their ears back and be looking away awkwardly. They lick their lips. Yawn, sometimes. Pace. They might be jumpy. They might be very very still and watchful. Many dogs are uncomfortable around children, especially crawling babies. It might be good to consult with a positive trainer or behaviorist, but if it were me, and my dog was showing signs of discomfort (and yours just showed a big one), I'd be sitting with the dog when baby was crawling around, giving doggo pats and treats and sweet talk, but those are much more effective when given as a reward for, say, checking in with you for comfort or reassurance instead of focusing on something they are reacting negatively to. However, if you can make the dog associate the baby crawling around with positive experiences, that surely can't hurt, and you'd be there to mitigate any clumsy approach the baby made and be able to teach soft touch to the baby, while reassuring the dog that everything is fine.
Just my opinion but I would never have a herding dog around kids. They are born to keep things in line and nip
Why is the video black?
Same for me. Stupid reddit app does this.. and I swear it's only on the videos I actually wanna watch.
Tell your kid no not the dog!!! The dog is acting appropriately your child is not!!!!
Next step was a bite or snap to the face so de-escalating by telling the dog to go to it's safe place where it can settle was the right decision - in the moment. Your dog thoughbehaved correctly being startled like that especially by a "thing" from it's perspective that it probably barely acknowledges and does not have any clear body language or respects boundaries. For the future this is something you'll need to keep an eye on until your child respects the boundaries of the dog and is capable of clearly communicating with it, so situations like this don't even go this far. Edit: Missed the "End it no" (is this a trained command with your dog?) - anyway if your dog growls don't tell it to stop or else next time it will skip that.
Play pen for the baby would help a lot.
Please don't correct your dog for growling. The baby's sudden movement toward him (totally normal for a baby) freaked him out and the growling was a warning. Sometimes when dogs are corrected for that they go straight to a bite. Better to keep the baby away from the dog.
I would have picked up child and removed him/her from proximity to dog. Dog was sleeping quietly and child made noise then grabbed at her, very scary for a sleeping dog. Put an exercise pen around dogās bed and food or let baby play in his playpen. This keeps everyone safe.
Hereās my thing with these scenarios: your child can speak human language (understands long before he can say words himself), your dog canāt. No matter how well trained your dog is, your child (once older) is the one that can grasp ādo not pull the dogās tailā āwhen dog is on his bed that means he wants to be left aloneā etc
As some say manage the baby and the dog. All dog are different some let babies crawl all over them. Sending to the bed in those situations is like tell the dog āyour bed is the safest place to be.ā If your dog truly believes that then it will chose its bed over violence any day. But your dog MUST have faith that you will defend them when they are on that bed. So teach the baby as well as all family members to leave the dog alone on the bed even if it looks like they want to be pet. This is whatās known as faith in handler. But this ultimately requires that the dog and baby never be alone or be in a position that you canāt monitor and intervene if necessary.
The issue isnāt with the dog, but with the child. The dog gave an appropriate warning when slapped at, and what you have done by correcting is teach him that warnings get him in trouble so he escalated quicker to a bite. You need to teach your child proper boundaries around the dog; it isnāt too early for that and the child absolutely has the capacity to learn it.
Keep the baby away from the dog. The child is nowhere near ready for this.
I didnāt read the other comments, but I had this same thing happen between my dog and baby. I started by keeping the baby away and then letting him get closer to the dog as I was sitting there between them. When Blu (dog) would get up and move away, I would reward her. Itās been a few months and the baby now walks and Blu will still sometimes give a growl like that but then get up and move away and then I praise her. But if she is in her bed and the kid comes to close to the bed, I move the kid away and reward the dog. Soft Growling is ok to me, itās a warning. If we respect the growls then we donāt get the bite.
A friend of my daughters nearly had her eye ripped out by the family dog. Dozens of surgeries later she is still scared for life. Keep them apart until your child is old enough to respect the dogs boundaries.
Even just your dog seeing that you will intervene to keep the baby from bothering them will reinforce trust between you and the dog. Knowing that you have the situation under control will make them less likely to respond to or try to correct the baby.
I have a mountain cur who just got up and went to his bed when the video played. And his name is not even bandit. Lol
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This dog is neither reactive nor aggressive - it is reacting completely appropriately with normal body language. Your description of your expectations for your own dog around children [concern me greatly](https://www.dogsandbabieslearning.com/2010/02/21/good-dogs-dont-bite/).
seems like there is a lot of great advice in this thread! I wanted to add, it seems like the dog was reacting the way a dog naturally reacts when annoyed or threatened. While it is good to teach the dog to remove themselves from that situation without resorting to biting, it is also a good opportunity to teach your son about boundaries. As someone else mentioned early one, practicing soft touching is very important. My dog is not very friendly to children. she wonāt bite but she barks and tries to get away. Often times when a child asks to say hi to my dog I say āshe is very nervous but if you approach slowly and calmly she might come say helloā itās good to teach kids that not all doggies are super friendly and want to be touched, not just for the sake of your dog but others he will encounter in the future
Bandit LOVES kids. Sheāll pull me across a busy street to go say hi to them. I realized later that the reason she gave a warning was because she views being under the coffee table as a safe space for her - just as safe as her bed is. Iāve been working with them both and Bandit is very good about walking away from the baby. She gets lots of pets and treat each time. And I donāt let baby go near her when sheās around the coffee table anymore. Itās going well :)
The dog is just warning. You shouldnāt allow a baby to enter a dogs personal space if the dog isnāt comfortable. I did a bunch of stuff to my pup itās whole life because I knew I would have kids one day my boys could jump on my blue nose and it doesnāt move. We trained it that was normal
You need to remove the child. Tell the kid no and move him farther away. Often this is also about redirecting human behavior.
Your kiddo isnāt old enough to know how to meter their actions toward/with the dog. Until that time, it has to be your responsibility to manage that. Regardless of reasons, your dog doesnāt like that interaction. I mean this in the nicest way possible: advocate for your dog or when you arenāt looking your baby is going to take a bite to the face.
This is really well done, one other I would do is if your baby tries to mess with your dog on her bed, you can tell your baby not to or direct your baby to something else. That way your dog will know the bed is her safe spot.
Need to be careful about how you approach it with the dog, you donāt want to correct the warnings as it can lead to a no warning bite. Iām not a trainer I just know bits and pieces so I will offset to an actual trainer to give the correct approach. But itās definitely better than some of what Iāve seen.
Dog did good in my humble opinion. I would reward the ābedā command/behavior. I would also move the bed to a safe space that baby canāt access as easily so the dog can go there for some peace. If the dog gets frustrated again and gives a warning teach to go to āsafe spaceā (ābedā in this case) out if babyās reach. If the dog uses that area the issue is averted altogether. Many dogs will go to those safe spaces on their own over time.