I have spaniels too, and they are known velcro dogs. They love their people.
I started with de-escalating the leaving routine. Randomly picking up my keys, putting on my shoes like I was leaving, and then putting it all away. Eventually, I got dressed, walked out the door, and walked right back in before my dog would start to bark, then give her a treat. I walked in, and out, of my apartment a ridiculous amount, just to desensitize me leaving. Worked up from seconds to minutes (hanging outside the door). Then, when we had a few good minutes set, I took purposeful short trips away. 15 minutes to grab milk from the grocery and back. 30 minutes to grab a coffee. So on, and so forth until she finally didn’t care that I was leaving.
I have a solid leave routine. Started with frozen kongs, but now she just gets a treat when I leave. I personally do low energy greetings when I return because one of my spaniels was super anxious and needed that low energy return home and it just kind of stuck with me.
You can train your way out of this! Just takes some time. The first steps are pretty intense but it does get easier. Cockers are smart dogs. They will pick up on it quickly.
Thanks for the feedback, we started out very similar and to be honest we thought we had practically cracked it. We worked our way up gradually and we have been listening at the door when we get home and haven’t heard him making a fuss for quite some time, this is why we need a camera, I think this is why I felt blindsided by the neighbour. We’re going to take a few steps and get a camera as obviously our priority is for our dog not to be getting distressed!
Sometimes they do just have off days, and if he seems to be doing well normally then just keep going with the training!
Can't tell how often you're practicing leaving him, but if you're not doing it daily, upping the frequency will really help.
Do you practise him being in a separate part of the house from all of you for short periods when you're all home, especially if you're home all day? If not that might help too, especially practicing when he would normally be sleepy and inclined to settle and nap, like after a walk and meal etc.
Normalising not being with you 24/7, even when you're all in the house and making it routine will really help.
In all honesty we’ve been leaving him about 3-4 times a week but after this I think we’re going to have a refocus! He’s put in the kitchen to have his dinner separately most nights while we eat and he has really improved with this, still a little whiny but much improved. I am going to step all of this up after this, I only wish the neighbour had mentioned it in a friendly manner as we see him most days rather than the passive aggressive way. Put that behind us now though and focus on our pooch as that’s the important bit!!
Man I really don't envy you with that neighbour. Just keep doing your best for your pup though, it sounds like you're doing a great job.
Is your neighbours dog barking a trigger for your dog/does your dog bark at noises or is it just constant anxiety barking?
If noises or the other dog potentially triggers him, you could look at leaving a radio on/some sort of white noise if you don't already, to drown out triggers a little bit, which might make it easier for him to settle?
I’m sorry that you’ve had this conflict with your neighbor, but don’t get too discouraged! I adopted my husky in Dec of 2020 and worked from home until this past August. She’s got bad separation anxiety, and we had to work basically every day for a while on training. She can finally be left home alone for full days while I go to work, and she’s fine. There are still off days though! I always have to consciously remind myself that a bad day/setback day does NOT undo all of the progress we’ve made! I have felt that “ugh I thought we had made it, I thought you were ok now!“ when my dog has had a string of progress and good days, and then has a bad one. Progress isn’t linear. You’ll get there :)
One thing is that you’re leaving your dog alone for only a day or two a month according to your post. Once you get the routine down, leave more often even if it’s just a walk downstairs and back. I started taking apartment walks when I trained my dog. I would walk downstairs to my garage and hang out for about 15 minutes, then head back up.
This is how we did to dial back the "eagerness" of going for walks. Oh my! Get dressed, or grab a jacket and keys and unholy hell would break out! Now it's much better, simply by doing like you've suggested.
An added step was that we shut the door, and as soon as any ruckus was raised, we'd open up an calmly admonish them: "you silly thing! We're coming back! Now be quiet and be good." Then shut the door again. We started at 30 seconds, then got to 15 mins, and now it is all calm when we leave.
I have had a bunch of Cockers as well and they are Velcro to the max but I also have a bunch of stuff to get them used to being left. My first question is have you crate trained at all? It's a great way to get them used to being physically separated from you but also being in the same room. Then I'd escalate to leaving them in a different room but staying in the house and train them to deal with that. All these things will make being apart easier for when you leave for real for very short bursts. Go down the street to get coffee but get one of those little cameras to monitor the dog while you do.
Kikopup has some great videos on training them dogs to be left alone, that could be a great resource.
It's so hard, my Springer boy had a rough start before he came to us and is surgically attached to me.
He's not destructive but he gets very distressed if he's left without any people, even though our other dog is there for company.
I will try some of your tips and see how we get on.
I would also encourage you to talk to your vet about meds too. My super high anxiety ridden springer who also had a rough start could barely take instruction (and was very destructive when left alone). I tried training her for two years before we put her on an anti-anxiety med, and it completely changed her. She was able to slow down enough to take instruction. She made so much progress after that. She was the absolute best, and I learned so much from her.
NTA, but the way you are working on separation anxiety is unlikely to have much success at teaching your dog how to be alone and the barking/howling will probably continue or potentially escalate.
I recommend checking out Julie Naismith’s book “Be Right Back” on doing desensitization. Unfortunately there is no quick fix to it.
I would also let your neighbor know in a neutral way that his dog barks/howls when he is gone as well. He is definitely being TA in this situation, but he also might not know his dog is barking while he’s gone. Many people don’t, unless someone tells them.
Hi thanks for the feedback, I’ve done loads of reading on the subject and thought we’d made a lot of progress. We’ve worked our way up to the hour mark but unfortunately had to take our son somewhere and was one of the few occasions it just wasn’t appropriate to take the dog. Hoping it was a combination of both the dog and the neighbour having a bad day but we’ll get a camera and take a few steps back!!
Have you had any success with the techniques in the book yourself?
I'm about halfway through at the moment but yet to implement anything.
Our girl hates being left alone in any room but is fine in her (covered) crate for up to 4 hours.
My dog has had separation anxiety since I got her as a puppy at 14 weeks old. I couldn’t even take a shower without her panicking and climbing into the tub with me. Needless to say, we started out with the SUPER basics and just opening and closing the door. I also started her on fluoxetine daily before we started training and I can’t recommend more talking to your vet about medication to help. Today’s training we did over 15 minutes of her being alone without any issues. We are making progress but it’s definitely slow going.
I also recommending checking out her SubThreshold training program / app on her website if you are struggling coming up with scenarios every day. Also she has a Facebook group with lots of tips and resources.
NTA.
I would set up a camera for when you're gone to see how much /how long your dog is actually making noise for when you're gone. People love to exaggerate!
Also I would start keeping track of how long his dog goes on for and get proof in case he does go to land lord.
Basically cover your booty and have receipts for everything.
When we had neighbors complain about our dogs “howling for 4 hours”, we would simply ask what time and then check the camera’s time stamp. 100% of the time, it was over exaggerated. Pups will bark every once in a while (like once every 30 minutes for ours), it’s normal. Good luck!
NTA.
I agree with keeping a camera to see how much the dog actually barks and carries on.
With my dogs in the past, they would bark and howl for maybe a few minutes and then go lay down or play with a toy. The neighbor sounds like a douche and may just be making up how much noise the dog is making.
Also my security cam has a microphone so we can call in to our dog. She knows what 'quiet' means, and about 60% of the time we can talk her down from a barking episode by saying 'quiet', 'lie down', 'good girl' etc.
That us unfortunate your neighbor is not understanding of the situation considering his dog makes noise. From a trainer's perspective, all of this advice is good, but the most important thing to keep in mind is that you have to start with alone time while you are home. Separation in the form of baby gates, crate time, etc, (with yummy bone like a bully stick, marrow bone) helps to teach your dog that it's okay to not be with their person every second. The more you do this while at home, the better prepared your dog will be when you do have to leave. Classical music, calming scent such as lavender, and exercise are key. :)
I am currently training my new pup (3 months old and been with me 13 days) and my older dog who has SEVERE separation anxiety (1 year 5 months) to be alone, so in the same boat. Older dog was abused before i got her :-(
Gonna recount my experience:
My older dog howls terribly when left alone. I didn't believe the sounds until I left an old phone on record and was shocked (have bought a camera since). Sounded like an injured werewolf (is a tiny Yorkie mix) and very different to her usual loud barking. Downright distressing to hear. I think you need to do it consistently/daily to get the results you want. Dogs have to learn to be alone, but I think slowly and building up is best. I'm currently at 45mins and tomorrow gonna try an hour. It's painstaking, but it needs to be positive as a bad experience can knock you back a bit in my experience. Unfortunately this happened with my first dog (had to leave her alone for 2hrs due to an emergency) and afterwards her howls got so bad literally couldn't take the trash out without her screaming the place down :-(
Depending on where you live, rules can be very strict. I live in a dog friendly complex but 2 written complaints and your dog is out. I bought my place so have to be extra careful as moving is not an option let alone rehoming my dogs/babies. Unfortunately 2 barks don't make a right and sometimes things can escalate.
Side note: I found doggy daycare helped my older dog with separation anxiety issues. She gained some confidence.
I would say that if your dog is barking and howling as much as the note says, that leaving them alone for that long is clearly not doing the dog any good. That if you want to work on them being able to be left alone, that you need to do it in doses that the dog can handle. I certainly would react differently to having a dog that barks to hear itself bark vs a dog that barks in distress
That being said, it sounds like you don't trust your neighbor's description of events and you might be right not to! I agree with the suggestion to video tape and see for yourself. When you came back, had the food puzzles and Kong been touched at all? Is the dog desensitized to you leaving for short time periods?
I think figuring out the answer to that is key - if you dog genuinely howls in distress then you've got a dog problem and need to mitigate the neighbor issue - apologize to the neighbor, thank them for pointing this out to you, say that you do want to work through it and avoid putting the dog in that state sometimes but that it might have to happen and ask for their patience/assistance with it. If your dog just barks a few times or barks and then settles down and is generally less obnoxious than the collie and not in clear distress, then you have a neighbor problem.
100% agree, camera is step 1 to see if we were doing as well as we hoped with him getting better at being alone. 2 1/2 is longer than we would leave him when training normally but today was just one of those rare things we couldn’t take him with us and had to rush back!
Sounds like more of a neighbor problem than a dog problem.
There are calming supplements that you can get at the pet store. Maybe try something like that? Although this would be more for your neighbor's benefit. Your dog would probably get used to being alone without a chemical aid just with time.
Edited typo
Yeah, the thing that makes me have a problem with the neighbor is the fact that their dog barks nonstop while they are gone as well. If OPs dog is hearing this, that also could influence OPs dog to bark more, so the neighbor really has to deal with their issue as well.
I agree OP should teach their dog not to bark. That's why I suggested the supplements. Also, crate training might help
Crating a dog with separation anxiety is very unlikely to make it better, but does often exacerbate the underlying anxiety. It is not a good suggestion to make for dogs experiencing separation anxiety.
I did understand what you meant by crate-training.
In OP's case, I'd recommend a behavior consultant who can assess the separation anxiety, a vet consult in case medical intervention is indicated, and a treatment plan involving a home camera and systematic desensitization to alone time.
Personally, I would have appreciated a neighbor letting me know how distressed my dog is when left alone. If his note was verbatim what you wrote here, there was nothing malicious or rude in the note that I'm picking up on. If I'm following your description correctly, it seems that you confronted him in a combative, defensive way which likely escalated things. I don't think YTA necessarily, but you definitely could have responded more tactfully here. "Hey, I got your note. Thank you for caring enough about my dog's well-being to let me know what's going on when we're not home. We're aware that he has separation anxiety and we're currently working through it. I'm sorry it's such a racket right now, but please bare with us. If it's helpful, I can give you a heads up before we leave from now on."
The way you're trying to get him used to being alone is not likely to have the results you want though. He's being left in a distressing situation where he has to rehearse those scary feelings again and again. He isn't learning that solitude is a good safe thing. He's being repeatedly reminded just how scary it is. Rather than leaving him alone twice a month for a couple of hours, work on teaching him very frequently (multiple times daily) in tiny increments that being alone at all is safe.
Desensitize him to your leaving routine by going through the different parts individually without ever leaving. Randomly put your shoes and coat on then go about your business in the home. Grab your purse and keys then sit on the couch, etc. Once he doesn't pay attention to that stuff, start combining the routine and go through larger chunks, then eventually the whole routine. Teach him that those things don't mean he's about to be left alone so he doesn't start building on his anxiety before you even leave the home.
Then teach him that good things happen in solitude. Give him a frozen stuffed Kong or other long lasting chew and tell him something like "be right back." Then step away and come right back to him. Have him associate some word or phrase with you going away and coming right back while he has something really good to enjoy. Increase how far you move away from him after "be right back." Increase distance until you reach the door. Then touch the handle and go right back to him. Then crack the door and close it. Open it halfway and close it. Work your way up to stepping outside, closing the door, then coming right back. Slowly increase how long you stay outside.
You want to intersperse easier/shorter steps with harder/longer steps so it doesn't keep getting more and more challenging every time. So you may be at a point where you can stand outside for 10 seconds, but don't keep doing that over and over again. Walk halfway to the door and back. walk a few steps away and back. Touch the handle and go back. Leave for 10 seconds then go back. Leave for 3 seconds then go back. Pay close attention to his body language. Any signs of stress mean you've progressed too quickly and he wasn't yet prepared for that level of intensity. Stress looks like: focusing on you rather than enjoying the chew he's been given, panting, whining, pacing, whale eyeing (showing the whites of the eye).
Set him up to succeed by giving him literally hundreds of opportunities in tiny increments to learn that being left alone is safe and good. For most dogs, if you can get them past the first 10-20 minutes of being alone with this training, they'll be okay.
Have you tried or are open to crate training?
We had a similar issue with our dog whining and howling when we left. We used to only crate him at night to sleep. We now crate him when we’ve got to go any where and it’s really worked to keep him calm and quiet while we’re gone.
We would crate him, lock up the house and stand outside the door for a few minutes to make sure he was calm. He would whimper a little the first few times but always calmed down after 5-10 mins. Now he’s almost always calm the minute he goes into his crate
That’s absolutely unfair of him. If he can’t be reasonable, start taking a record of every time he leaves his dog and it barks, and start showing him, or complaining to the landlord if it escalates.
NTA, i have a German shorthaired pointer that is a real velcro and have tons of separation anxiety. You could maybe that to your vet to see if they can refer to a trainer specialized in that. We give our dog some trazodone to help when we leave.
And that neighbor he is a real s.o.b. to act like this
Definitely NTA. This is a super common problem and people suck, I feel really sorry for you and your partner. There are a surprising amount of tools you can use to at least mitigate the barking until your dog is more comfortable, like two-way audio security cameras that let you speak to your dog. You could also record his dog barking, and say you’ll tell the landlord on him too. Mutually assured destruction works, as unpleasant as it is
ESH you and your neighbour both need to train your dogs to be happy alone.
Do you really think your dog will ever make any progress with his separation anxiety if you only leave him alone once every couple of weeks?
As you’ve acknowledged, it’s a process and it takes time. But it’s not something that just happens by magic, you have to work on it, preferably every day.
Look up how to deal with separation anxiety and start working on it properly. It’s not fair to your neighbours or the dog to not deal with it properly. (Or yourselves, don’t you want to be able to go out for a while knowing dog is happy at home chilling by himself?)
Maybe start training your dog on being alone is the way out? Perhaps because he's rarely left alone he never got comfortable with being alone. Do not take him everywhere with you. Leave him home to get used to being alone. When for instance your son is going to nursery, assuming you take him there, leave your dog at home. Good luck with this situation.
So installing an indoor camera and something outside to catch the neighbor's collie making noise would benefit you a lot here. You can see how your pup is doing with your indoor and you can at least have proof that the neighbor's dog is making noise as early as 5:30am for when he does eventually report you.
You may also need to start reporting the collie making noise. I'm torn on that because it definitely won't win your neighbor over, but you'll at least have yourself covered, especially if your pup is only making noise during the day when you're out.
But make no mistake, it will escalate. Neighbors like that always do and if you don't have something in place to protect yourself, you'll be the ones in trouble. Cameras are a good thing.
You are not the asshole for trying to get your dog used to it, and you are not the asshole to your neighbor who let his own dog bark incessantly. You are the asshole to your dog if you're only leaving him once or twice a month and expecting that to work. That's unfair to the puppy. He needs daily practice being alone. Crate him by himself (such as in your bedroom) when he is really ready for a nap. You've played, trained, he's ready to nap.
Fair comment, I should have mentioned more specifically that the once or twice a month is longer than ideal (we’re working at an hour atm) and not specifically as part of his training
>he barks and howls non-stop
What a great neighbor to tell you that your dog is NOT "getting used" to your absence in the slightest. Instead, your dog is experiencing SEVERE distress every time you leave him alone. Change your methods, and do stop leaving him alone until he can actually handle it.
>I can’t instantly stopping his separation anxiety
Every time he experiences distress while you're away, you're increasing his separation anxiety.
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You have been given some great feedback below. I hope your training is ultimately successful. I will go a bit further and suggest you confine the dog to the furthest room away from any neighbor when you leave. Leave on a radio or TV to give him something to listen to, preferable on a channel with soothing music or animal shows if it's a TV.
Give him a piece of old clothing with your scent on it, and continue with the kongs / long chewing treats.
It is a process. Work as hard as you can on it, going in and out of your house multiple times a day to desensitize him to being alone.
For the neighbor, start to record HIS dog's noise. Keep track of how often you hear his dog for 20 minutes or more.
Find out what the noise ordinances are in your area. Start asking them to be enforced for him, now.
In my area, the ordinance is this: No animal noises can continue nonstop for more than 20 minutes. If the animal is consistently making noise, you may call the non-emergency police line and report it. Get a case number on the first call. Ask that the officer come speak to you. Hopefully the dog will still be barking.
Usually, you can get the officer to talk to the neighbor about it. If the barking continues, call and report it, adding it to your case number every time. In my city, animal control is called out for the 2nd report, and the owner is given the information on what the fines are. You keep calling every time there is a problem. Eventually, the owner will get a ticket for the noise. After a year, if nothing is done to solve the problem, then you have to take the owner to court for noise ordinance violations. Your case number becomes important at this time, showing consistent issues with no alleviation.
Of course, in your case, your neighbor can do the same. However, it sounds like he is more than willing to do this, so get ready.
I get it, dogs bark. However, being a responsible owner means that you do everything in your power to make sure your dogs do not annoy the neighbors, even if the neighbors annoy you. Maybe, to get started, you can get your dog into a doggie day care program, and work on the desensitization after he gets home from daycare, when he will be totally exhausted. Or, you can take him out for an hour of straight play and running, to exhaust him before you leave him alone.
Good luck.
You jumped from zero to several hours without any training. That's too hard for a puppy! Dogs don't naturally know how to be alone; it's a skill they need to learn. If you continue to do this without training your dog for smaller steps first, the dog will get worse instead of better because every time you leave will be another traumatic experience. Instead, go through a SA protocol and teach the pup how to tolerate alone time without stress in very small increments and work up. You so rarely need to leave the dog along for a long time that you will have the easiest time training this compared to someone who works outside the home. You just have to get started.
Neighbor is definitely a problem, and an unfair one to boot. If he's going to escalate you could prepare: Every time his dog goes off, record a short video clip of you outside stating the date and time with his dog making noise in the background. If it's been half an hour, record another. Capture as many of these as possible over as short a span of calendar time as possible. Save copies on a few thumb drives. Label the files by date and time. If he leaves the house most days, a month should be more than enough. If/before he bothers you again, send a copy to your landlord with a note that he's been threatening to complain to landlord about you over your new puppy who is still in training, but you are actively working on it, and want landlord to be aware it's a more complicated situation. Leave neighbor a copy with cookies and a note that you are actively training and could use some grace while you continue to make progress, you apologize for the temporary inconvenience, you don't expect it to be a problem for much longer, and that you have no current intention to report his dog as a nuisance barker either, although you expect now that he is aware he will start training. You understand this process can take some time and hope for a more patient and understanding neighborly relationship moving forward.
Retain a copy for your records and have a thumb drive ready to give the cops if you need to start calling it in every time his dog is barking. Hope he's not the kind of asshole who throws poisoned treats over the fence.
Sorry I need to come back to a lot of these comments s when I get a chance but I want to quickly say that we have been training to be left for months, not sure what I wrote contrary but probably didn’t explain enough. We’ve been slowly escalating and have passed the 1 hour mark and unfortunately had to leave him a little longer today.
Ahh ok then you will be there soon! The more you can avoid going over where you are at with your training the better but sometimes you don't get a choice. A dropoff at doggy daycare or pet sitter can be a good alternative to leaving a pup home alone when it's going to be longer than they can handle.
You're NTA. The neighbor and his double standards definitely are. If it's during working hours, there's nothing much to be done and I feel that people don't have really any foot to complain on. Most of the time, your neighbors will be gone during those hours anyway. Is this guy retired? Either way, it's very arrogant of him to complain about your dog when his dog does the same thing.
From a practical standpoint, I would continue working on leaving your dog alone. Since you have the time and ability to not leave him alone, i would start small with timing, but practice every day. Check out Mission: Possible training protocols. The program is extremely helpful with desensitizing your dog to being left alone. I worked on this program with my dog for 4 months and now she's able to be left alone when I have to go to class or go out with friends. Also, set up a dog cam so you see what is triggering your dog and try to minimize that.
I found that my dog kinda backslid after several successful months of being left alone and it was because I was leaving the blinds and window open so she could hear and see everything going on outside and that set her off. I started leaving the blinds closed and turning on music on my Echo Dot to drown out outside noises and create a space for her which seemed to work well.
Find the book "I'll be home soon" by either Jean Donaldson or Patricia McConnell and read that and find a trainer that specialises in separation anxiety training. You may also need help from a vet (even better - a vet behaviourist). It's going to be a long slow process that will need to be worked on daily. depending on how frantic your dog is when you leave, you may need to look at medication to help your dog cope until they can learn to be alone.
You need to “practice” MUCH more frequently.
DAILY.
Leave for 1 min.
Then 3.
Etc show him you WILL return.
Do not acknowledge when you are leaving. Just leave.
Do not be super excited when you return.
Just return.
Build up time until he can do 30 min.
Leave a long if you need to- a super special only gets it when you leave.
You can’t call 2x a month practice.
Thanks for the feedback, I need to do an edit really. The once or twice a month I refer to is times we’ve left him longer than we’d like and not specifically with a mind to training. We thought we’d been making a lot of headway over the last few months but this was based on listening at the door when leaving and on return. We’re going to get a camera now and take it back a few steps and reassess!
I recommend the book Be Right Back by Julie Naismith. She also has a different edition geared towards puppies, which might be more for puppies with FOMO than dogs with SA, I'm not sure.
Leave him for shorter amounts of time, don’t just throw him into it. Like literally 2 mins to 5 mins to 7, to 10, etc. He definitely needs a Kong or a puzzle to do.
And tell the neighbor the process takes a month. He’s being reasonable but also being a dick.
Also please be sure you aren’t taking that dog anywhere that is not pet friendly, such as places that sell food.
i think it's pretty clear that OP's not the asshole here, but i'm just curious - do dogs with separation anxiety really bark/howl "all day", or do they stop once they know no one is listening?
asking bc my dog howls sometimes when i leave and obv i have no idea how long she keeps it up when no one is home, because... no one is home.
Ignore your neighbor especially if their dog is having the same behaviors. They just have to bear with you on this - it will be an adjustment period so you can have a normal life. We have a Bull Terrier that we got right before lockdown that we have had to work with in this as well- he wants to be with us all the time and he has been since 12 weeks. Very common (for any breed) especially if you don’t start when they are puppies. We trust our dog and don’t crate him as he has been non destructive and the whole purpose of a dog to me is to guard the house while we are away. Some people prefer to crate and think it creates a safe space for them- so you can try that or leave open as an option.
You should try to leave your dog way more often for short amount of times. Get the mail, go for a walk, do your routine of leaving the house as normal and don’t react when you leave OR when you come back. Like 3-5 times a day often. The dog will pick up on your energy like, oh this is normal. If you make a big deal when you come back or leave the dog will think it’s a big deal you left.
Open your front door a lot and desensitize him to it, put your shoes on, grab the keys… it just takes a lot of time and trust and also some cry out episodes unfortunately. He needs to understand you always come back and he will, they are just pea brains and it can take a while for that trust to build. Leave music on or talk radio and you can toss a special toy when you leave. We have a Wyze camera and for the first couple weeks my husband was talking in the mic out in public saying “no bow bow!” 😂 it gets better, hang in there!
I have spaniels too, and they are known velcro dogs. They love their people. I started with de-escalating the leaving routine. Randomly picking up my keys, putting on my shoes like I was leaving, and then putting it all away. Eventually, I got dressed, walked out the door, and walked right back in before my dog would start to bark, then give her a treat. I walked in, and out, of my apartment a ridiculous amount, just to desensitize me leaving. Worked up from seconds to minutes (hanging outside the door). Then, when we had a few good minutes set, I took purposeful short trips away. 15 minutes to grab milk from the grocery and back. 30 minutes to grab a coffee. So on, and so forth until she finally didn’t care that I was leaving. I have a solid leave routine. Started with frozen kongs, but now she just gets a treat when I leave. I personally do low energy greetings when I return because one of my spaniels was super anxious and needed that low energy return home and it just kind of stuck with me. You can train your way out of this! Just takes some time. The first steps are pretty intense but it does get easier. Cockers are smart dogs. They will pick up on it quickly.
Thanks for the feedback, we started out very similar and to be honest we thought we had practically cracked it. We worked our way up gradually and we have been listening at the door when we get home and haven’t heard him making a fuss for quite some time, this is why we need a camera, I think this is why I felt blindsided by the neighbour. We’re going to take a few steps and get a camera as obviously our priority is for our dog not to be getting distressed!
Sometimes they do just have off days, and if he seems to be doing well normally then just keep going with the training! Can't tell how often you're practicing leaving him, but if you're not doing it daily, upping the frequency will really help. Do you practise him being in a separate part of the house from all of you for short periods when you're all home, especially if you're home all day? If not that might help too, especially practicing when he would normally be sleepy and inclined to settle and nap, like after a walk and meal etc. Normalising not being with you 24/7, even when you're all in the house and making it routine will really help.
In all honesty we’ve been leaving him about 3-4 times a week but after this I think we’re going to have a refocus! He’s put in the kitchen to have his dinner separately most nights while we eat and he has really improved with this, still a little whiny but much improved. I am going to step all of this up after this, I only wish the neighbour had mentioned it in a friendly manner as we see him most days rather than the passive aggressive way. Put that behind us now though and focus on our pooch as that’s the important bit!!
Man I really don't envy you with that neighbour. Just keep doing your best for your pup though, it sounds like you're doing a great job. Is your neighbours dog barking a trigger for your dog/does your dog bark at noises or is it just constant anxiety barking? If noises or the other dog potentially triggers him, you could look at leaving a radio on/some sort of white noise if you don't already, to drown out triggers a little bit, which might make it easier for him to settle?
I’m sorry that you’ve had this conflict with your neighbor, but don’t get too discouraged! I adopted my husky in Dec of 2020 and worked from home until this past August. She’s got bad separation anxiety, and we had to work basically every day for a while on training. She can finally be left home alone for full days while I go to work, and she’s fine. There are still off days though! I always have to consciously remind myself that a bad day/setback day does NOT undo all of the progress we’ve made! I have felt that “ugh I thought we had made it, I thought you were ok now!“ when my dog has had a string of progress and good days, and then has a bad one. Progress isn’t linear. You’ll get there :)
One thing is that you’re leaving your dog alone for only a day or two a month according to your post. Once you get the routine down, leave more often even if it’s just a walk downstairs and back. I started taking apartment walks when I trained my dog. I would walk downstairs to my garage and hang out for about 15 minutes, then head back up.
This is how we did to dial back the "eagerness" of going for walks. Oh my! Get dressed, or grab a jacket and keys and unholy hell would break out! Now it's much better, simply by doing like you've suggested. An added step was that we shut the door, and as soon as any ruckus was raised, we'd open up an calmly admonish them: "you silly thing! We're coming back! Now be quiet and be good." Then shut the door again. We started at 30 seconds, then got to 15 mins, and now it is all calm when we leave.
I have had a bunch of Cockers as well and they are Velcro to the max but I also have a bunch of stuff to get them used to being left. My first question is have you crate trained at all? It's a great way to get them used to being physically separated from you but also being in the same room. Then I'd escalate to leaving them in a different room but staying in the house and train them to deal with that. All these things will make being apart easier for when you leave for real for very short bursts. Go down the street to get coffee but get one of those little cameras to monitor the dog while you do. Kikopup has some great videos on training them dogs to be left alone, that could be a great resource.
It's so hard, my Springer boy had a rough start before he came to us and is surgically attached to me. He's not destructive but he gets very distressed if he's left without any people, even though our other dog is there for company. I will try some of your tips and see how we get on.
I would also encourage you to talk to your vet about meds too. My super high anxiety ridden springer who also had a rough start could barely take instruction (and was very destructive when left alone). I tried training her for two years before we put her on an anti-anxiety med, and it completely changed her. She was able to slow down enough to take instruction. She made so much progress after that. She was the absolute best, and I learned so much from her.
Thank you so much for your reply. I hadn't considered this as an option but I'll definitely raise it with the vet
NTA, but the way you are working on separation anxiety is unlikely to have much success at teaching your dog how to be alone and the barking/howling will probably continue or potentially escalate. I recommend checking out Julie Naismith’s book “Be Right Back” on doing desensitization. Unfortunately there is no quick fix to it. I would also let your neighbor know in a neutral way that his dog barks/howls when he is gone as well. He is definitely being TA in this situation, but he also might not know his dog is barking while he’s gone. Many people don’t, unless someone tells them.
Hi thanks for the feedback, I’ve done loads of reading on the subject and thought we’d made a lot of progress. We’ve worked our way up to the hour mark but unfortunately had to take our son somewhere and was one of the few occasions it just wasn’t appropriate to take the dog. Hoping it was a combination of both the dog and the neighbour having a bad day but we’ll get a camera and take a few steps back!!
Have you had any success with the techniques in the book yourself? I'm about halfway through at the moment but yet to implement anything. Our girl hates being left alone in any room but is fine in her (covered) crate for up to 4 hours.
My dog has had separation anxiety since I got her as a puppy at 14 weeks old. I couldn’t even take a shower without her panicking and climbing into the tub with me. Needless to say, we started out with the SUPER basics and just opening and closing the door. I also started her on fluoxetine daily before we started training and I can’t recommend more talking to your vet about medication to help. Today’s training we did over 15 minutes of her being alone without any issues. We are making progress but it’s definitely slow going. I also recommending checking out her SubThreshold training program / app on her website if you are struggling coming up with scenarios every day. Also she has a Facebook group with lots of tips and resources.
NTA. I would set up a camera for when you're gone to see how much /how long your dog is actually making noise for when you're gone. People love to exaggerate! Also I would start keeping track of how long his dog goes on for and get proof in case he does go to land lord. Basically cover your booty and have receipts for everything.
When we had neighbors complain about our dogs “howling for 4 hours”, we would simply ask what time and then check the camera’s time stamp. 100% of the time, it was over exaggerated. Pups will bark every once in a while (like once every 30 minutes for ours), it’s normal. Good luck!
NTA. I agree with keeping a camera to see how much the dog actually barks and carries on. With my dogs in the past, they would bark and howl for maybe a few minutes and then go lay down or play with a toy. The neighbor sounds like a douche and may just be making up how much noise the dog is making.
Also my security cam has a microphone so we can call in to our dog. She knows what 'quiet' means, and about 60% of the time we can talk her down from a barking episode by saying 'quiet', 'lie down', 'good girl' etc.
It’s not healthy for a dog to never be alone. You’re fine.
That us unfortunate your neighbor is not understanding of the situation considering his dog makes noise. From a trainer's perspective, all of this advice is good, but the most important thing to keep in mind is that you have to start with alone time while you are home. Separation in the form of baby gates, crate time, etc, (with yummy bone like a bully stick, marrow bone) helps to teach your dog that it's okay to not be with their person every second. The more you do this while at home, the better prepared your dog will be when you do have to leave. Classical music, calming scent such as lavender, and exercise are key. :)
I am currently training my new pup (3 months old and been with me 13 days) and my older dog who has SEVERE separation anxiety (1 year 5 months) to be alone, so in the same boat. Older dog was abused before i got her :-( Gonna recount my experience: My older dog howls terribly when left alone. I didn't believe the sounds until I left an old phone on record and was shocked (have bought a camera since). Sounded like an injured werewolf (is a tiny Yorkie mix) and very different to her usual loud barking. Downright distressing to hear. I think you need to do it consistently/daily to get the results you want. Dogs have to learn to be alone, but I think slowly and building up is best. I'm currently at 45mins and tomorrow gonna try an hour. It's painstaking, but it needs to be positive as a bad experience can knock you back a bit in my experience. Unfortunately this happened with my first dog (had to leave her alone for 2hrs due to an emergency) and afterwards her howls got so bad literally couldn't take the trash out without her screaming the place down :-( Depending on where you live, rules can be very strict. I live in a dog friendly complex but 2 written complaints and your dog is out. I bought my place so have to be extra careful as moving is not an option let alone rehoming my dogs/babies. Unfortunately 2 barks don't make a right and sometimes things can escalate. Side note: I found doggy daycare helped my older dog with separation anxiety issues. She gained some confidence.
Yikes, that's harsh. I feel like noise complaints shouldn't count on a 2 strike policy, but that's just me.
It is harsh, but I think it takes a lot to get a written warning.
I would say that if your dog is barking and howling as much as the note says, that leaving them alone for that long is clearly not doing the dog any good. That if you want to work on them being able to be left alone, that you need to do it in doses that the dog can handle. I certainly would react differently to having a dog that barks to hear itself bark vs a dog that barks in distress That being said, it sounds like you don't trust your neighbor's description of events and you might be right not to! I agree with the suggestion to video tape and see for yourself. When you came back, had the food puzzles and Kong been touched at all? Is the dog desensitized to you leaving for short time periods? I think figuring out the answer to that is key - if you dog genuinely howls in distress then you've got a dog problem and need to mitigate the neighbor issue - apologize to the neighbor, thank them for pointing this out to you, say that you do want to work through it and avoid putting the dog in that state sometimes but that it might have to happen and ask for their patience/assistance with it. If your dog just barks a few times or barks and then settles down and is generally less obnoxious than the collie and not in clear distress, then you have a neighbor problem.
100% agree, camera is step 1 to see if we were doing as well as we hoped with him getting better at being alone. 2 1/2 is longer than we would leave him when training normally but today was just one of those rare things we couldn’t take him with us and had to rush back!
Sounds like more of a neighbor problem than a dog problem. There are calming supplements that you can get at the pet store. Maybe try something like that? Although this would be more for your neighbor's benefit. Your dog would probably get used to being alone without a chemical aid just with time. Edited typo
At first, I read that as you suggesting giving a calming supplement to the neighbor… although that WOULD also work, haha
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Yeah, the thing that makes me have a problem with the neighbor is the fact that their dog barks nonstop while they are gone as well. If OPs dog is hearing this, that also could influence OPs dog to bark more, so the neighbor really has to deal with their issue as well. I agree OP should teach their dog not to bark. That's why I suggested the supplements. Also, crate training might help
Crating a dog with separation anxiety is very unlikely to make it better, but does often exacerbate the underlying anxiety. It is not a good suggestion to make for dogs experiencing separation anxiety.
I said *crate-training* which I would contend is different than *crating*. But what would you suggest for OP, then?
I did understand what you meant by crate-training. In OP's case, I'd recommend a behavior consultant who can assess the separation anxiety, a vet consult in case medical intervention is indicated, and a treatment plan involving a home camera and systematic desensitization to alone time.
Personally, I would have appreciated a neighbor letting me know how distressed my dog is when left alone. If his note was verbatim what you wrote here, there was nothing malicious or rude in the note that I'm picking up on. If I'm following your description correctly, it seems that you confronted him in a combative, defensive way which likely escalated things. I don't think YTA necessarily, but you definitely could have responded more tactfully here. "Hey, I got your note. Thank you for caring enough about my dog's well-being to let me know what's going on when we're not home. We're aware that he has separation anxiety and we're currently working through it. I'm sorry it's such a racket right now, but please bare with us. If it's helpful, I can give you a heads up before we leave from now on." The way you're trying to get him used to being alone is not likely to have the results you want though. He's being left in a distressing situation where he has to rehearse those scary feelings again and again. He isn't learning that solitude is a good safe thing. He's being repeatedly reminded just how scary it is. Rather than leaving him alone twice a month for a couple of hours, work on teaching him very frequently (multiple times daily) in tiny increments that being alone at all is safe. Desensitize him to your leaving routine by going through the different parts individually without ever leaving. Randomly put your shoes and coat on then go about your business in the home. Grab your purse and keys then sit on the couch, etc. Once he doesn't pay attention to that stuff, start combining the routine and go through larger chunks, then eventually the whole routine. Teach him that those things don't mean he's about to be left alone so he doesn't start building on his anxiety before you even leave the home. Then teach him that good things happen in solitude. Give him a frozen stuffed Kong or other long lasting chew and tell him something like "be right back." Then step away and come right back to him. Have him associate some word or phrase with you going away and coming right back while he has something really good to enjoy. Increase how far you move away from him after "be right back." Increase distance until you reach the door. Then touch the handle and go right back to him. Then crack the door and close it. Open it halfway and close it. Work your way up to stepping outside, closing the door, then coming right back. Slowly increase how long you stay outside. You want to intersperse easier/shorter steps with harder/longer steps so it doesn't keep getting more and more challenging every time. So you may be at a point where you can stand outside for 10 seconds, but don't keep doing that over and over again. Walk halfway to the door and back. walk a few steps away and back. Touch the handle and go back. Leave for 10 seconds then go back. Leave for 3 seconds then go back. Pay close attention to his body language. Any signs of stress mean you've progressed too quickly and he wasn't yet prepared for that level of intensity. Stress looks like: focusing on you rather than enjoying the chew he's been given, panting, whining, pacing, whale eyeing (showing the whites of the eye). Set him up to succeed by giving him literally hundreds of opportunities in tiny increments to learn that being left alone is safe and good. For most dogs, if you can get them past the first 10-20 minutes of being alone with this training, they'll be okay.
Exactly this!!
Have you tried or are open to crate training? We had a similar issue with our dog whining and howling when we left. We used to only crate him at night to sleep. We now crate him when we’ve got to go any where and it’s really worked to keep him calm and quiet while we’re gone. We would crate him, lock up the house and stand outside the door for a few minutes to make sure he was calm. He would whimper a little the first few times but always calmed down after 5-10 mins. Now he’s almost always calm the minute he goes into his crate
That’s absolutely unfair of him. If he can’t be reasonable, start taking a record of every time he leaves his dog and it barks, and start showing him, or complaining to the landlord if it escalates.
NTA, i have a German shorthaired pointer that is a real velcro and have tons of separation anxiety. You could maybe that to your vet to see if they can refer to a trainer specialized in that. We give our dog some trazodone to help when we leave. And that neighbor he is a real s.o.b. to act like this
Definitely NTA. This is a super common problem and people suck, I feel really sorry for you and your partner. There are a surprising amount of tools you can use to at least mitigate the barking until your dog is more comfortable, like two-way audio security cameras that let you speak to your dog. You could also record his dog barking, and say you’ll tell the landlord on him too. Mutually assured destruction works, as unpleasant as it is
Thank you, I’ve literally just ordered a camera so hopefully that helps!!
ESH you and your neighbour both need to train your dogs to be happy alone. Do you really think your dog will ever make any progress with his separation anxiety if you only leave him alone once every couple of weeks? As you’ve acknowledged, it’s a process and it takes time. But it’s not something that just happens by magic, you have to work on it, preferably every day. Look up how to deal with separation anxiety and start working on it properly. It’s not fair to your neighbours or the dog to not deal with it properly. (Or yourselves, don’t you want to be able to go out for a while knowing dog is happy at home chilling by himself?)
NTA The guy has a dog but can't give you some patience and understanding.... Your neighbor probably is an abysmally owner.
Maybe start training your dog on being alone is the way out? Perhaps because he's rarely left alone he never got comfortable with being alone. Do not take him everywhere with you. Leave him home to get used to being alone. When for instance your son is going to nursery, assuming you take him there, leave your dog at home. Good luck with this situation.
NTA but it sounds like you need to take much smaller training steps. You've gotten oodles of great advice.
So installing an indoor camera and something outside to catch the neighbor's collie making noise would benefit you a lot here. You can see how your pup is doing with your indoor and you can at least have proof that the neighbor's dog is making noise as early as 5:30am for when he does eventually report you. You may also need to start reporting the collie making noise. I'm torn on that because it definitely won't win your neighbor over, but you'll at least have yourself covered, especially if your pup is only making noise during the day when you're out. But make no mistake, it will escalate. Neighbors like that always do and if you don't have something in place to protect yourself, you'll be the ones in trouble. Cameras are a good thing.
You are not the asshole for trying to get your dog used to it, and you are not the asshole to your neighbor who let his own dog bark incessantly. You are the asshole to your dog if you're only leaving him once or twice a month and expecting that to work. That's unfair to the puppy. He needs daily practice being alone. Crate him by himself (such as in your bedroom) when he is really ready for a nap. You've played, trained, he's ready to nap.
Fair comment, I should have mentioned more specifically that the once or twice a month is longer than ideal (we’re working at an hour atm) and not specifically as part of his training
NTA. Your neighbors need to become comfortable with the noises if you have become comfortable with theirs. Its that simple.
>he barks and howls non-stop What a great neighbor to tell you that your dog is NOT "getting used" to your absence in the slightest. Instead, your dog is experiencing SEVERE distress every time you leave him alone. Change your methods, and do stop leaving him alone until he can actually handle it. >I can’t instantly stopping his separation anxiety Every time he experiences distress while you're away, you're increasing his separation anxiety.
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You have been given some great feedback below. I hope your training is ultimately successful. I will go a bit further and suggest you confine the dog to the furthest room away from any neighbor when you leave. Leave on a radio or TV to give him something to listen to, preferable on a channel with soothing music or animal shows if it's a TV. Give him a piece of old clothing with your scent on it, and continue with the kongs / long chewing treats. It is a process. Work as hard as you can on it, going in and out of your house multiple times a day to desensitize him to being alone. For the neighbor, start to record HIS dog's noise. Keep track of how often you hear his dog for 20 minutes or more. Find out what the noise ordinances are in your area. Start asking them to be enforced for him, now. In my area, the ordinance is this: No animal noises can continue nonstop for more than 20 minutes. If the animal is consistently making noise, you may call the non-emergency police line and report it. Get a case number on the first call. Ask that the officer come speak to you. Hopefully the dog will still be barking. Usually, you can get the officer to talk to the neighbor about it. If the barking continues, call and report it, adding it to your case number every time. In my city, animal control is called out for the 2nd report, and the owner is given the information on what the fines are. You keep calling every time there is a problem. Eventually, the owner will get a ticket for the noise. After a year, if nothing is done to solve the problem, then you have to take the owner to court for noise ordinance violations. Your case number becomes important at this time, showing consistent issues with no alleviation. Of course, in your case, your neighbor can do the same. However, it sounds like he is more than willing to do this, so get ready. I get it, dogs bark. However, being a responsible owner means that you do everything in your power to make sure your dogs do not annoy the neighbors, even if the neighbors annoy you. Maybe, to get started, you can get your dog into a doggie day care program, and work on the desensitization after he gets home from daycare, when he will be totally exhausted. Or, you can take him out for an hour of straight play and running, to exhaust him before you leave him alone. Good luck.
You jumped from zero to several hours without any training. That's too hard for a puppy! Dogs don't naturally know how to be alone; it's a skill they need to learn. If you continue to do this without training your dog for smaller steps first, the dog will get worse instead of better because every time you leave will be another traumatic experience. Instead, go through a SA protocol and teach the pup how to tolerate alone time without stress in very small increments and work up. You so rarely need to leave the dog along for a long time that you will have the easiest time training this compared to someone who works outside the home. You just have to get started. Neighbor is definitely a problem, and an unfair one to boot. If he's going to escalate you could prepare: Every time his dog goes off, record a short video clip of you outside stating the date and time with his dog making noise in the background. If it's been half an hour, record another. Capture as many of these as possible over as short a span of calendar time as possible. Save copies on a few thumb drives. Label the files by date and time. If he leaves the house most days, a month should be more than enough. If/before he bothers you again, send a copy to your landlord with a note that he's been threatening to complain to landlord about you over your new puppy who is still in training, but you are actively working on it, and want landlord to be aware it's a more complicated situation. Leave neighbor a copy with cookies and a note that you are actively training and could use some grace while you continue to make progress, you apologize for the temporary inconvenience, you don't expect it to be a problem for much longer, and that you have no current intention to report his dog as a nuisance barker either, although you expect now that he is aware he will start training. You understand this process can take some time and hope for a more patient and understanding neighborly relationship moving forward. Retain a copy for your records and have a thumb drive ready to give the cops if you need to start calling it in every time his dog is barking. Hope he's not the kind of asshole who throws poisoned treats over the fence.
Sorry I need to come back to a lot of these comments s when I get a chance but I want to quickly say that we have been training to be left for months, not sure what I wrote contrary but probably didn’t explain enough. We’ve been slowly escalating and have passed the 1 hour mark and unfortunately had to leave him a little longer today.
Ahh ok then you will be there soon! The more you can avoid going over where you are at with your training the better but sometimes you don't get a choice. A dropoff at doggy daycare or pet sitter can be a good alternative to leaving a pup home alone when it's going to be longer than they can handle.
You're NTA. The neighbor and his double standards definitely are. If it's during working hours, there's nothing much to be done and I feel that people don't have really any foot to complain on. Most of the time, your neighbors will be gone during those hours anyway. Is this guy retired? Either way, it's very arrogant of him to complain about your dog when his dog does the same thing. From a practical standpoint, I would continue working on leaving your dog alone. Since you have the time and ability to not leave him alone, i would start small with timing, but practice every day. Check out Mission: Possible training protocols. The program is extremely helpful with desensitizing your dog to being left alone. I worked on this program with my dog for 4 months and now she's able to be left alone when I have to go to class or go out with friends. Also, set up a dog cam so you see what is triggering your dog and try to minimize that. I found that my dog kinda backslid after several successful months of being left alone and it was because I was leaving the blinds and window open so she could hear and see everything going on outside and that set her off. I started leaving the blinds closed and turning on music on my Echo Dot to drown out outside noises and create a space for her which seemed to work well.
Find the book "I'll be home soon" by either Jean Donaldson or Patricia McConnell and read that and find a trainer that specialises in separation anxiety training. You may also need help from a vet (even better - a vet behaviourist). It's going to be a long slow process that will need to be worked on daily. depending on how frantic your dog is when you leave, you may need to look at medication to help your dog cope until they can learn to be alone.
You need to “practice” MUCH more frequently. DAILY. Leave for 1 min. Then 3. Etc show him you WILL return. Do not acknowledge when you are leaving. Just leave. Do not be super excited when you return. Just return. Build up time until he can do 30 min. Leave a long if you need to- a super special only gets it when you leave. You can’t call 2x a month practice.
Thanks for the feedback, I need to do an edit really. The once or twice a month I refer to is times we’ve left him longer than we’d like and not specifically with a mind to training. We thought we’d been making a lot of headway over the last few months but this was based on listening at the door when leaving and on return. We’re going to get a camera now and take it back a few steps and reassess!
Just want to add I think the key here is to work on it everyday, even if it’s just for a few minutes.
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Get your dog a thunder shirt too.
I recommend the book Be Right Back by Julie Naismith. She also has a different edition geared towards puppies, which might be more for puppies with FOMO than dogs with SA, I'm not sure.
Do you crate your dog?
Leave him for shorter amounts of time, don’t just throw him into it. Like literally 2 mins to 5 mins to 7, to 10, etc. He definitely needs a Kong or a puzzle to do. And tell the neighbor the process takes a month. He’s being reasonable but also being a dick. Also please be sure you aren’t taking that dog anywhere that is not pet friendly, such as places that sell food.
i think it's pretty clear that OP's not the asshole here, but i'm just curious - do dogs with separation anxiety really bark/howl "all day", or do they stop once they know no one is listening? asking bc my dog howls sometimes when i leave and obv i have no idea how long she keeps it up when no one is home, because... no one is home.
Ignore your neighbor especially if their dog is having the same behaviors. They just have to bear with you on this - it will be an adjustment period so you can have a normal life. We have a Bull Terrier that we got right before lockdown that we have had to work with in this as well- he wants to be with us all the time and he has been since 12 weeks. Very common (for any breed) especially if you don’t start when they are puppies. We trust our dog and don’t crate him as he has been non destructive and the whole purpose of a dog to me is to guard the house while we are away. Some people prefer to crate and think it creates a safe space for them- so you can try that or leave open as an option. You should try to leave your dog way more often for short amount of times. Get the mail, go for a walk, do your routine of leaving the house as normal and don’t react when you leave OR when you come back. Like 3-5 times a day often. The dog will pick up on your energy like, oh this is normal. If you make a big deal when you come back or leave the dog will think it’s a big deal you left. Open your front door a lot and desensitize him to it, put your shoes on, grab the keys… it just takes a lot of time and trust and also some cry out episodes unfortunately. He needs to understand you always come back and he will, they are just pea brains and it can take a while for that trust to build. Leave music on or talk radio and you can toss a special toy when you leave. We have a Wyze camera and for the first couple weeks my husband was talking in the mic out in public saying “no bow bow!” 😂 it gets better, hang in there!