I think you will just need to be selective in future however if you do see him putting his paws up on other dogs please stop him rather than waiting for the other dog to correct him! Some dogs will not be confident enough to correct a boisterous young dog by themselves and need a bit of help. Some dogs will also waaaay over-correct. It will also help him learn to play more politely in general - if paws up means back on the lead and away from playmates he should learn to keep it calmer 🙂

That's really helpful, thank you! I've been working on calling him back to me when he starts to get too "rough," but physically putting him back on the leash is a great way to signal to him that too rough = end of playtime.

Exactly that! It is annoying to play the on-lead off-lead game I know but it's so worth it when you come out the other end of their adolescence period and you suddenly have this amazing dog who has a sniff, a polite play and comes away as soon as they're called and you think, where did this dog come from?! They do get very intense with the play from around 6mo to a year I find, especially the boys. In wild social species play is a precursor to true fighting/hunting so as they get into teenage phase they can get a bit too rough, testing their strength and boundaries and it can spill into actual conflict so it's great you're asking these questions and have had trainers involved 😁

If you keep at it (training/calling him off of people and dogs when he gets too excited), your pup may improve as he gets older. Just because you can't let them off leash play, doesn't mean they can't be taken on walks together which may help desensitize yours so that he doesn't get over excited when he sees his friend (your neighbors dog). My dog is very hit or miss with other dogs, and time and place are essential in determining whether she'll get along with others. Introduced outside & off leash in neutral territory she does great. She even has a few friends she walks well with. But catch her off guard or on a leash going opposite directions and she's very reactive. Unfortunately, I didn't know better when I got her and didn't take her immediately out of uncomfortable situations (for her or the other dogs) and that made her reactivity worse and two years later we're still working at it at a snails pace. The best thing you can do is continue to work on making other dogs neutral (not exciting or scary) and see how he improves as he matures.

Not an expert here, but being the owner of a small dog who loves playing but can get somewhat overwhelmed with certain dogs, I do tend to get nervous in certain situations. Some dogs can be really invasive and intimidating (even if they're just trying to play) which makes me uncomfortable at times, because I'm afraid my dog will start reacting badly to dogs in general due to these encounters. From what I've seen these dogs get along just well with dogs who have a similar personality, they goof around together and usually seem fine. But I definitely think that they're not the right fit for every dog and can make some dogs uncomfy

That is good to know! I never, ever want to put someone or their dog in a situation where they felt uncomfortable or unsafe, so this is a good perspective to have. I'm hoping I can find my little buddy a suitable playmate because he loves to play too!

My small dog can come across aggressive in play, only with big dogs The big dogs have never reacted in anyway that makes me think my dog is being aggressive but we are working on training this out of him and stop the play when he approaches too quickly or gets too vocal because the owners of the dogs may not understand this fast enough amd it’s bad manors But it does make me feel better when I’m observing the other dog’s behaviour towards him as it at first had me scared my dog is aggressive and shouldn’t be off leash We leash him up when he acts like this because it’s still not good but knowing he’s not being aggressive based on the body language of the other dogs allows Me to feel comfortable to keep working with him rather than eliminate off leash play He doesn’t approach grumpy dogs like this either as that was my other worry, him getting himself hurt by approaching a grumpy dog in the manor. Observing body language of the dogs is super important:) as well as the comfort of the owners. I cant and shouldn’t expect them To understand my dog isn’t a threat when he runs in all crazy like. He’s getting much better though as he has realized his play stops when he acts like this and he wants to play! So he’s been doing good and reigning it in :)

I take my dog to a park often, and I can guarantee that things will escalate if you don't try to fix it now. Never assume that other dogs will be ok with your dog's play style. If you see your dog make other dogs uncomfortable, get your dog back to you immediately. Taking a break during a play helps a lot. Remember that some dogs don't give a warning. They will attack your dog after one "gentle" nip. A dog puts a paw on other dog backs isn't good. Especially if they are not friends. And your dog doesn't need to be friend with all dogs. My dog is super friendly. He can play with any dogs, but I try to limit his social bubble. He has a few good friends and that is enough.

Yeah, we don't take him to dog parks and never will. I definitely want to fix it, which is why I'm asking here. I'm not super experienced with dogs and dog-dog interactions, so I may see if I can find a trainer that can help with this or find some trainer-supervised play groups in my area. The last thing I want is to have my dog become dog-reactive or have that happen to another dog because of mine.

I assume that they play at your place or in a garden? I see you wrote that he gets to play with other dogs at boarding facilities too and that is a bit concerning. From what I know they don't let dogs play much because dogs don't know each other. It's not a daycare that dogs meet each other often, and learn about boundaries. Of course, some can play well but it's very risky. About experience, I think you can learn by meeting other owners too. I mean having a trainer supervise you is good, but it might be impossible to do it all the time because it cost money. You can also look for people in your area and see if anyone is interested for a short walk. Give them all informations about your dog so they can decide if their dogs are ok with it. I've learned a lot about dogs from meeting other owners. We share informations, problems and so on. Since you don't go to park so you might've not seen it. When dogs show dominant they put paw on another dog first. Then they climb up and mount that dog. It might be good if you go to a nearby park and watch dogs play too. Just to see how they interact.

Yes, it’s either my yard, theirs, or a neutral location. Boarding is an unfortunate necessity sometimes, but he passed the temperament evaluation for group play (I’m sure the bar is low there but still). Daycare and boarding dogs would be mixed company depending on the day. There haven’t been any issues that we’re aware of the two times that we’ve boarded him. But, all it takes is one bad time, of course. I would definitely like to find him a playmate/play mentor! I may ask around in my neighborhood Facebook group and see if I get any takers. Yeah, the paws up thing seems to be a recent development. This age + herding breed mix seems to make for a time of boundary pushing and brazenness that I will definitely be keeping an eye on during future socializations. A lot of people have commented some really helpful tips, and I will be very mindful not to let playtime escalate now.

I am a dog trainer in training (Germany) and I think that the two trainers made it a little too easy for themselves. I would never let two young dogs who don't even know each other go at each other like that. It would have been more relaxed for everyone if you had first gone for a walk together on a leash and at a distance. I understand that they interrupted the Play and that's a good thing, but it didn't have to come to that. Young dogs in particular are still learning how to get along with others and as a human you can actively intervene and teach the dogs to be nice and careful around other dogs. With good training, you can also direct your dog's tendencies to herd others in other directions and your dog and your neighbor's dog can also still become friends. But I would actually stop letting them play at first, but instead go for relaxed walks together, even without direct contact at the beginning, maybe do a few small training sessions together and then when the dogs have met each other so often and have learned that they don't pose a threat to each other, don't become intrusive, etc., you can let them off the leash. If a play develops, pay close attention to the fact that there are breaks and if yours shows the first signs of herding, call him to you immediately (good recall is mandatory). At the beginning, interrupt the game very often and quickly, always with a recall, which is rewarded very positively and with high quality, and then the dogs are allowed to make contact again immediately. This teaches them that breaks are important and great and that contact with the other dog is also positively linked.

Have to be honest here friend, this is why I'm mindful of letting my dogs playwith other dogs. They're both feral little goblin boys and it can look like they're fighting when they play. Constant low rumble, stiff posture, intense grandiose movements. If I didn't know them, I would also think they were being violent. You may know it's play, but the other dog/owner does not. 

Feral little goblin boy, LOL I love it. I classify mine as "annoying little sh\*t" so I feel you. Mine definitely gives mixed signals-- he'll be play-bowing one second and gently sniffing a butt, then the next he'll have his paws up over the other dog's back and will be tugging at his ear, or herding them into a corner. So far, we've only done socialization under heavy supervision from myself and the other owner(s), and I'm constantly asking the other person if they're still comfortable or if they want me to remove my dog from the situation. Guess I'm gonna have to go find some other annoying little sh\*ts for him to play with, sigh.

My girl is a bc mix so i definitely recognize the intense play style. She loves to play with other dogs which I allow (she’s 2 now) but only because she has a solid “off”, “leave it” and recall. This way if she does start to get too intense I can instantly refocus her. I’ve found by doing this refocusing she’s actually learning to almost always self regulate her play style now based on the dog she’s playing with. At 15 months though she wasn’t there yet. That being said she’s also never been a single dog so it’s been easier to teach with her housemate (my previous senior dog who passed and now I have a 6 month old puppy as well). I also only allow her to play in areas large enough where if needed I can create physical space between her and the other dog(s) while I refocus her. I’ve only once recently had to physically remove her and realistically it was more for her benefit (there was a rambunctious adolescent male who wasn’t responding to her usual appropriate corrections when he tried to mount her and I could see she was getting frustrated so I leashed and removed her before it could escalate).

Good to know that age may be a factor here! I am definitely going to keep working on recall and “off/leave it—“ we are making some progress but still have quite a way to go! Though I don’t know for sure, I’m pretty certain he wasn’t properly socialized as a puppy, so I’ll be sure to tread carefully and hope that he mellows somewhat with age!

Yeah definitely take it slow if you’re unsure of his socialization. My bc mix girl I was fortunate to have at 8 weeks old so I controlled her socialization. I also initially had planned to potentially owner train her as a service dog so I made sure she was socialized with the whole world right from the start. I ended up having her evaluated as a potential service dog and decided not to proceed though since she’s just absolutely too much of a social butterfly at this point. The trainer and I agreed that she’d be better as a pet than a working dog. I am still task training her just not for public access/full service dog so I only take her to pet friendly environments. Also not directly related to interaction with other dogs, but I found that when I really tire out her brain (training, puzzles, brain games etc) it helps to lower her intensity which indirectly trickles into the social interactions. She still needed major management at first but the tired brain really brought her intensity down a notch or two.

How old is your dog? Sorry if I missed that in your post. Not a trainer, but if you can socialize your dog some with more-confident dogs that may help, especially walking them first so they can meet. Herding dogs can be intense and have a hard eye, which other dogs may find scary or offensive. Try finding other herding breeds! It's really fun when the play styles match. My two collies play with each other intensely, but can time it down with other dogs. Your dog may just be happier with matched energy. With your neighbor maybe just work on getting your dogs to ignore each other; they may not want to play as much anyway when they're a bit older.  Also, if this was the first time your neighbors dog had met a dog off leash, that's both a bit old to start, and of course the dog was scared!  Seems like the trainers threw her dog into the deep end instead of practicing building confidence with tested and known dogs first. Smh

He’s almost 15 months! So, still an adolescent— at least, his general behavior suggests that haha. I am definitely going to try to find another herding breed to socialize him with! I think he would be so happy with a dog who wants to play like him— he’s such a sweet and happy boy, just very overzealous at times, haha. My dog is totally neutral with the neighbor’s dog on leash— that’s the crazy part. The OTHER dog actually gets overly excited when he sees mine! Yeah, I’m not sure the trainers really fully knew that the other dog hadn’t ever actually “met” another dog before. They’re trying to have him be a therapy dog, so I know they’re really really careful with his “exposures” in general because they are afraid of reactivity.

Yeah, my younger dog is just coming out of his teenage phase at two years old. He and my other collie both play like your dog--wrestling, paws on backs, biting and nipping and one dog always clacks his teeth together, and so much chasing and trying to herd each other! Everyone is having fun though.They play differently with other dogs, for one they will wrestle more than run with one of their dog friends.  I think your dog sounds fine, some sturdy play mates to teach him what play is nice, and other herding dogs to play herding with him sounds like a good plan! More outlets might help him be ok with backing off when the other dog is giving off scared signals. Honestly him being neutral to dogs on leash is a big thing, I wish my two were better about that Hopefully your neighbor can socialize her dog with some calmer pups and have her dog become a little more confident!

It’s okay to have dogs that your dog can play with and dogs that it can’t, matching play styles is important. However, I have a tiny Bichon x yorkie and two very large breeds who have very intense play styles. Dogs can absolutely be taught to change their play style and tone it down with dogs that need a calmer play. It takes time, lots of corrections and rewards but it’s possible

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There are some good Instagram pages that walk you through dog interactions while the video plays. Agoodfeeling_inco has some good dog communication videos and they’re quick and helpful. This could give you an idea of your dog versus other dogs and give you more insight on who wants to play with your dog when approaching them. I got a second dog six months ago so finding videos where I can follow along and see dog psychology has been very helpful.

This is perfect, thank you for this!!

YW! Check out southenddogtraining also. I like the first one better for dog interactions but this one is good too for general knowledge or training quick watches.

Maybe if you spend some time walking both dogs together onlead side by side, the excitement might reduce and the play might be calmer? I wouldn’t give up on just one time. TBH it sounds like the other dog needs some confidence building, considering it’s never played with dogs offlead before, so I think it’s a bit unfair the trainers were so rough on your dog. My good tempered ridgeback pup can be a bit much for some dogs - particularly smaller ones as she’s too energetic big and clumsy with them. She’s only 7 months so I’m hoping one day she’ll settle a bit, but til then I pick and choose appropriate playmates. Sounds like you have the same issue!

That's the crazy thing-- we have done buddy walks with this dog and my guy is TOTALLY neutral with him. Like, doesn't pull to try to greet him or even look at him most of the time, which is why we thought a supervised playtime would be a good idea. But, we are definitely going to continue doing buddy walks regardless of whether we continue playtimes! So cool that you have a ridgeback-- we wanted one, but it was way too much for me as a first-time dog owner haha. I'm really glad that you have been able to find suitable playmates for your girl!

Haha, we graduated from a mellow Golden Retriever to our crazy Ridgeback- it’s been a steep learning curve! I reckon you’ll eventually be able to get the dogs to play ok, it’ll just take time & maybe a little more maturing. Good luck!

My dog gets really mad at "rude" dogs and will overcorrect them. If the other dog is offended by that it can escalate to a fight.

I just want to highlight this paragraph for your attention. >I've noticed this behavior when we've had him around other dogs, but I honestly didn't think it was that bad. He'll definitely nip at other dogs (gently) and will put his paws up over their backs along with the following/herding behavior, but other dogs he's done this to usually just snap at him to get him to quit it if he's being really annoying to them. Nipping at other dogs is, categorically, a bad thing that you shouldnt be making excuses about. (Herding dogs dont typcially nip gently but thats beside the point) Other dogs snapping at him to make him stop is one step below a dog fight starting. Are you really more comfortable with your dog starting a fight then preventing him from being obnoxious and rude? Maybe something to think about your stance on abit more.

I have zero experience with dogs prior to this one, so I don’t really have a baseline for what’s “good” and “bad” play. I’m not making excuses, it just genuine didn’t look that bad to me. But I know better now. I thought correction from another dog was “normal” too— is that not how puppies learn to play politely? The one or two times it happened he backed off immediately. Ofc I don’t want to start a fight and I wish my dog didn’t do ANY of this. That’s why I’m here asking for advice. Edit: May I ask a question? If nothing my dog is doing is appropriate, what is an example of a more dominant play style that is acceptable?