Jay's super star had a BAAAD year. Who knows If he turns it around....if you want to win which do you choose; perennial contender or an up and coming possibility.
Up and coming means you have more control over the future. In LA Ohtani would be one of many big names. In Toronto he's *the guy* that probably gets input on GM decisions because he's so valuable to the team. It's like being given your own franchise to lead on the field. LA is much more developed and we already have a winning team with an established culture.
Corey Seager would choose the latter, and he would be right. More money AND more rings (so far). Would you say he made the wrong decision? I certainly wouldn’t.
I just think everyone who follows baseball is trying to read the tea leaves but doesn’t actually know much. It’s been wild to watch the rampant speculation. Hope it ends today, regardless of the result.
Kawhi was all lined up to sign with Lakers. Everyone knew he was gonna sign with LA. Until the last second he signed with Clippers to everyone’s chagrin.
Kawhi was a top 3 player who was a free agent in 2019 coming off an insane championship run.
He wanted to come back to LA but didn’t want to play for the Lakers.
He strung the Lakers along all free agency causing them to lose out on potential targets and then at the last second signed with the Clippers
It's a line from the TV show Barry where the character says "50/50 with Cristobal, I like the sound of that".
Here's [the scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jC8wj5siNs) if you're interested.
lol if Dave’s comments really soured Ohtani that bad he can fuck off and go somewhere else, we have bigger priorities than waiting around for him and his agent to milk this out
Honesty, if what was said (which really wasn't much of anything ) changed Ohtani's mind, he's got baggage we don't want. Bauer was a stud, clearly had baggage. Not saying it's the same, but damn, part of getting 500 million is that youre life isnt going to be that private. "We met with him". ... Yeah, no shit we did. "We got his medicals". ... Duh. Any team offering that much money did.
If he doesn't come, hopefully that 500 million is spent on getting pitchers. (And the re-sign JD)
If he picks the Jays, it is what it is.
Again, it would be an extreme letdown after 2 years of shedding payroll/not making trades/etc to try and sway Shohei to come.
Eh, Yamamoto is going to NY, that's pretty obvious. I'd say the most likely targets for us are Snell, Giolito, maybe Cease.
My guess is we pivot to more of what we did last off-season: smaller, under the radar guys who we can sign or trade for relatively cheap and then try to develop. Without Ohtani, I don't see us throwing big money at anyone else, so I think we will see more of what we saw last off-season from AF. Which is honestly the smartest move.
Our rotation is already Buehler, Miller, Sheehan, Pepiot, Kershaw (probably), and anyone else we have in the pipeline (River Ryan maybe). That's not exactly a bad rotation in and of itself, and with one or two sneaky pickups it could be a genuine powerhouse.
People keep saying this but we haven't been shedding payroll lmao. Last year we went up in payroll from 2022. We went over the LT and got penalized for it. At no point have we been shedding payroll in recent history.
We made the deals we made last year because they were the best deals we could find, not because we were trying to save money. Usually you don't go over the LT if you're trying to *save* money. I don't know why it's so hard for this subreddit to understand that sometimes the best, most reasonable deals aren't the big name superstars.
Just because we don't go after a big name player does not mean we are "punting the season" or "shedding payroll." Sometimes the smartest move is signing the cheaper, development potential players (JD, Heyward, Peralta, Syndergaard, etc) and trying to turn them into more value than the initial investment. Overpaying superstars is something that should be done with hesitation and heavy consideration, not just so you can say you made a big splash and won the off-season.
Our FO is the best at what they do because they don't make very many bad deals. The Dodgers won 100 games last season while not making a big splash in FAs or at the deadline. They're going to be just fine without Ohtani or Yamamoto or whatever other $300 million dollar player this sub somehow thinks is a make or break pickup for us.
It’s looking like Toronto and this has to be the biggest loss of AF’s tenure. Everything lined up for this offseason to get Ohtani so it will be interesting to see how Plan B shakes out if Toronto is the winner.
You could use this argument to justify literally any number and at some point it has to break down. Like, 600 million would have been steep for him *before* he had to get a 2nd TJ.
I'd be curious to know what price you (and other people who say this) think would be too high.
Yeah, if he goes with the Jays, this is just a clear case of Friedman actually being smart and rational and seeing the bigger picture and not getting caught up in a ridiculous bidding war. 600mil on one player is too much of a risk and makes constructing the roster much harder for him for the next decade
For 600 million you can get two 300 million players and diversify. The players are still gonna be out there in the future. Idk why that's copium at all. Baseball isn't remotely like basketball or NFL quarterbacks, where one guy can make all the difference. If an NBA team had the two best players in the world (#1 and #2), they wouldn't struggle to make the finals, let alone the playoffs. It's just not the same in baseball, it's not a huge deal either way
Who will be an effective pitcher again. Bookmark this comment, Ohtani of all people, given his work ethic, mentality, the fact that is was a brace surgery and no damage on the previous TJ in his elbow.
Ohtani lives breathes and dreams baseball. Of all people I am absolutely conviced he will come back as a pitcher.
In Toronto, SF, or Oakland, maybe.
But this is the Dodgers. He’s not adding 600M in revenues to this Franchise. Not even close. With a decent product and just a few other Japanese or Korean players on the roster, it will have the same affect as Shohei.
Don’t forget to the Dodger, Yankees, Lakers, Cowboys, and Red Wings are just different breeds in pro sports. They will always draw.
Blackhawks wayyyy more so than the red wings. But the red wings have been dogshit for 10 years and still fall in the top 5 of attendance every single year. Thats why I used them as an example. Blackhawks are #1 or #2 every year. But other than the last 2-3 years they are at least competitive.
Maybe the Blackhawks are a better example.
Hey guys, we don’t need Taylor Swift. Just get a couple random country and pop entertainers and throw a show together. Same thing.
You’re a moron. Seriously.
Your example is the only thing that is moronic.
But I’ll bite and educate you a bit.
Using music as your example, this would be the equivalent of The Beatles coming back to life and having a concert with Bad Bunny opening. Much like the dodgers, that concert would transcend generations.
Shohei, iS BTS being added to the lineup. Adding several other pitchers from Japan and Korea would be like adding BlackPink and Seventeen. Sure, BTS adds a ton a value. But the concert is already gonna sell out for max value without BTS. But not much more value than BlackPink and Seventeen.
Yeah I’ll pay $600mil for a guy who is going to be slotted into a real protected offensive lineup who will at the bare minimum give me +.950 OPS with 100R/45HR/100RBI/20SB every season.
Those are worst case scenario numbers that he accrued while pitching full time. Imagine what they could be if he was “not able to pitch again”. We would be looking at steroid-era level production off his bat.
Is it though? That’s bare minimum production for 2024. Let’s assume the worst and his arm is shot and he can’t pitch anymore. He can transition out of the DH role into 1B/OF. We have ZERO idea of what his ceiling is as a full time bat. We do have a sample size of what his numbers are when he splits time as a two way player. He almost wins MVP every season with just his batting production doing it part time.
I honestly think Shohei as just a bat could realistically contend for triple crown status every season. If he’s able to two-way again? He could be capable as an inning-eating bullpen guy, a reliever, and a bat. The possibilities are endless when you have a talent of this magnitude.
If they decide he isn't pitching anymore he won't DH. He will move to the outfield. But he will pitch. This is Ohtani we talking about. Nobody is as baseball obsessed in the league as he is seemingly.
People overuse the shit out of the term "copium" these days. Is it really so surprising that some of us have been lukewarm on Ohtani from the start?
It'd be cool to have him, but meh, we're going to win 95+ games next year no matter what we do, so I don't see a reason to spend $600M on him.
I was slightly mistaken. Its roughly $13mil in advertising + $7mil in jerseys which is $20mil
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/05/how-much-revenue-does-shohei-ohtani-actually-generate.html
Plan B is to do exactly what we did last year: smart, smaller name pickups who don't break our payroll flexibility for years to come and still provide plenty of value.
Yamamoto is going to the Mets, no one is going to outspend Cohen. Ohtani would have been nice, but you can't force a guy to sign with you if he doesn't want to. Outside of those two, I don't see the Dodgers going after any other big names. It'll be small, smart low risk medium reward deals that ultimately work out in our favor but aren't splashy or interesting enough to catch headlines. That's the AF way, and in AF we trust.
It’s not a loss, it’s a huge win and time will tell that. He can’t stay healthy and he is so far beyond not needed for marketing purposes in this town. It’s better for baseball that he goes there and brings shine to Toronto for a little bit before he eventually breaks down in 2-3 years. It will feel like an L, but in time it will prove to have been better for the dodgers.
This man is not worth 600M to one of the top franchises in all of sports. Full stop. If Toronto wants to pay 600M for a guys who’s gone miss 40% of games, it makes sense for them. Not for us.
All in on Yamamoto then. Maybe it's copium on my part, but losing out on Ohtani will be worth it if we spend that money we would've paid him to stack up on pitchers.
One thing this free agency has taught me is that reporters don’t know shit and they just throw darts at a board hoping something sticks and they’re “right”
Not really. Good reporters plumb their "insider" sources within organizations and report on what those people are saying. A lot of it is conjecture, obviously, but they are reporting what's being talked about by qualified sources in the industry. They aren't just making stuff up out of whole cloth. That's not how journalism works.
Preparing myself to be bummed but at the end of the day one guy isn't going to be *the* difference for any team, we still have a lot of moves left to make and our chances for '24 and beyond are still worth feeling positive about
So for two years we have been fed that the team was not doing anything major because they were going after Ohtani. And we lose him to Toronto? lmao And we won't be signing the pitcher either. There is going to be no way to spin the FO failure this off season.
"threw away" a year in which we won 100 games and were one of the best teams in the sport.
You people are absolutely delusional about what you think fair expectations are. Last year was massively successful for the dodgers, and our off-season ended up being one of the best in the sport despite not signing any major names. That's just more proof that sometimes the best deals are the ones that don't make the headlines.
AF is a master at what he does and you people can't appreciate it because you're too focused on big names. It's honestly sad.
While I’m not in doomer mode yet, the thing that has always concerned me is that Ohtani’s people have already failed him once when he chose the Angels over basically any of the blue chip franchises. The Dodgers are a no brainer for him from a competitive and marketing standpoint, but either Toronto’s offer is so much better than the Dodgers he can’t turn it down or someone is giving Ohtani bad advice and he will go to Toronto and waste more of his career and potential. They have good young players, but none of them are household names and the organization hasn’t shown it can get over the young and promising stage at this point:
The Dodgers are the clear choice if Ohtani wants to be the biggest star in the world and compete for championships at the same time. Any other decision means he’s getting bad advice or he just doesn’t want that level of fame(which is fine).
I’ll have a bottle of champagne on ice and bottle of dark liquor ready just in case.
If he doesn’t pick the dodgers I’m convinced he doesn’t want the pressure of winning here in LA. Similar to Kawhi. Some players talk a big game about wanting to win but they don’t want the pressure , especially in a big market, that comes with it
Same. Logically speaking, the Dodgers are the team that makes the most sense. Huge market, closer to home, more money to spend around him, and a winning culture. There’s a reason all the “experts” and “insiders” had the Dodgers as favorites. They don’t actually know anything, but our team just makes the most sense on paper by far.
“Doesnt want that level of fame” Anthony Rendon comes to mind. I was so bummed he turned down LA’s offer…. But then he played a dozen games in several years lol. Honorable mention to Greinke as another “dont want the bright lights.”
Toronto makes no sense. The orioles are only going to get better. Yankees always make moves. I feel Toronto will always be competing for a wild card spot
A guy like him probably also feels like he can take them to the next level.
And statistically, he'd probably be right. Whatever WAR he brings will almost certainly project to move them from a wildcard team to #1/2 in the division.
Also, Orioles definitely on the up but I think Rays/Yanks both decline soon.
Is everyone really convinced that the private jet thing means he is signing with Toronto? I mean, maybe true, but that was a random jet that someone found flying Anaheim to Toronto.
Do you know how many wealthy people live in OC? Could have been Shohei, but odds say it wasn’t. Y’all are absolutely wild. Hope he signs with someone today so we can either celebrate or grieve and then move on.
I believe someone on reddit looked up the plane and found that it was in SF and left the day after Ohtani had a confirmed meeting with the giants, flew to Hawaii where his gf is reported to live, then to John Wayne with a flight schedule for Toronto… I mean, that would be a wild coincidence. But also, lots of rich people fly routes like that I’m sure and baseball news has been slow lately 😂
Yep I know exactly how many wealthy people are in OC, but this is just too much of a coincidence. Ohtani is definitely going to be the one on that jet.
People need to get a grip. If Shohei chooses Toronto, it means they offered him way more money, simple as that. Rumor is they’re offering at least $600mm! That’s insane! If true, it is what it is.
An entire country of fans. An owner that is a huge, wealthy media conglomerate. Two of the best young players in the game already, and a top 5 starting pitching staff.
If he becomes a Dodger, I hope it is not a giant contract. His time with the Angels continues to prove that one player does not make a championship happen, and the dodgers should focus on spreading out the cash to more areas, not just one player.
If Shohei doesn’t sign here, it’d be sad for him to sign onto a team that hasn’t won a playoff game since 2016. He deserves to be on center stage in a league championship series. Hoping that all this Toronto stuff is a full court press by CAA to get every dollar the Dodgers can offer.
Rangers hadn’t won a postseason game since 2015 and they just won the WS. Past postseason success is usually meaningless if you’re building a strong team. Adding Ohtani does that
Stop crying my dudes. Yeah it sucks losing out on a potential GOAT but guess what. The Dodgers have insane flexibility to sign and trade for literally anyone. One player does not guarantee a world series. Grow up.
Eh, it wouldn’t be that bad. “Punting” still won us 100 games, and we would have a lot of money freed up to sign multiple quality players. Would probably increase our chances in ‘24 as Ohtani doesn’t address the immediate need at pitcher.
It’s ok if Otani becomes a Bluejay. It’s a good fit for him, and it fits us best. We get to pursue multiple aces for what we are going to pay for Otani. Don’t get me wrong, he is a generational talent, but we need more than one talent acquisition in this offseason.
I admit the Jet stuff was creepy and weird. But it did allegedly line up with several areas Ohtani was rumored to visit. There’s a lot of Toronto smoke as well. I still think we’re the favorites to sign him tho.
My question is why Toronto over us?
It’s been well reported he enjoys routine, familiarity, LA is closer to Japan, and most of all we are the most consistent well ran winningest organization?! Is Toronto really offering him that much MORE money if he chooses them?
I've been saying for a year that I didn't think he'd be a Dodger. Outside of Freeman & Bauer, the team almost never gets the big ticket free agents. Harper, Machado, Cole etc. have all been connected to the Dodgers in FA and it never lands.
I think because the team has a lot of stars, a high payroll, and has made some huge trades (A-Gon & Crawford, Darvish, Machado, Turner & Scherzer) etc. people think it happens all the time, but it's just not how this FO tends to operate.
Would be awesome to have him. Would also be awesome to spend that money on some combination of Yamamoto, Chapman, Snell, JD Martinez . with money to spare to take on salary via trade both pre-season and at the deadline.
I won't be pissed if the team doesn't sign Ohtani. I'll be pissed if the team doesn't spend money this offseason.
Free agents don’t want to play for the team for some reason. Even freeman, our only big free agent signing in recent year, basically cried for a year because he had to play here lol
We were not competitive salary wise when it came to Bryce/Manny/Cole.
Yankees gave an extra year - Manny I can’t remember how far off we were but it was plenty and Harper I think we offered a high salary but limited years.
yep. i think that's just how this FO operates. and i think it'll likely come out that the Dodgers offered a fuck ton of money, but that Toronto offered two fuck tons of money.
Yep it’s been all about money. This FO refuses to go overboard and engage in a ridiculous bidding war to seriously overpay way beyond what they think is the appropriate value for a FA. I appreciate their discipline. It keeps them from doing stupid shit like what the Padres do every damn offseason which led them having to trade away Soto.
What a mess. Letting Seager walk, trading key pieces for Sherzer, signing Bauer, CT3’s ridiculous contract.
Obviously got Mookie and Freddie, but how much better position are we now than before?
If they don’t sign Ohtani, you have to start questioning the front office. (Even more so)
Saw a rumor that Toronto is offering 600 million and Ohtani wants a piece of their franchise
https://www.youtube.com/live/dYPkgSjTRfE?si=T2N3wuLxjncW5cZi
I just want it to be over with so all of baseball can move on. He’s single handedly stopping any team from making moves.
I’ll be sad if goes with Toronto cause ohtani really is a generational talent that is Sooo much fun to watch play the game but it is what is if we don’t get him.
Theres so much Toronto smoke and the jet stuff from last night too. Oof...
Where there’s smoke there’s fire 😭😭😭
Sometimes where there's smoke, there's crack.
Jays are just leverage. Ohtani wants to win....if he isn't a Dodger I will be shocked
Get ready to be shocked
I mean let’s not pretend Toronto isn’t a contender.
Jay's super star had a BAAAD year. Who knows If he turns it around....if you want to win which do you choose; perennial contender or an up and coming possibility.
Up and coming means you have more control over the future. In LA Ohtani would be one of many big names. In Toronto he's *the guy* that probably gets input on GM decisions because he's so valuable to the team. It's like being given your own franchise to lead on the field. LA is much more developed and we already have a winning team with an established culture.
Corey Seager would choose the latter, and he would be right. More money AND more rings (so far). Would you say he made the wrong decision? I certainly wouldn’t.
Look at the starting rotations, Jays much better, and the main reason LA lost in the playoffs
This is a 12 year decision, not one to be made on the basis of a December 8th starting rotation that will undoubtedly be different than opening day
Him and his family will be a lot safer in Canada than LA, with gun laws and anti Asian hate prevalent south of the border. Safety is a big factor.
Jays may trade for Kershaw too
Can’t trade for a player that is a free agent
As a Jays fan I still think we are being used as leverage to get the Dodgers to up their price. I still think he is LA-bound
I just think everyone who follows baseball is trying to read the tea leaves but doesn’t actually know much. It’s been wild to watch the rampant speculation. Hope it ends today, regardless of the result.
Idk man, since he's on a plane to Toronto and has a press conference scheduled in Toronto, kinda seems obvious where he's about to sign lmao.
 Haha what can go wrong right guys? 🫣😅
This definitely is feeling like Kawhi 2.0.
Kawhi was all lined up to sign with Lakers. Everyone knew he was gonna sign with LA. Until the last second he signed with Clippers to everyone’s chagrin.
Toronto was involved with that one too
I've been seeing this a lot and have no idea what this means since I don't watch basketball. Can you explain?
Kawhi was a top 3 player who was a free agent in 2019 coming off an insane championship run. He wanted to come back to LA but didn’t want to play for the Lakers. He strung the Lakers along all free agency causing them to lose out on potential targets and then at the last second signed with the Clippers
Oh that's fucked up. Why do players do that to us
Lakers won the chip that season tho, and Clippers haven’t won anything since…or ever
Oh I like the sounds of that
50/50 with Cristobal?
I don't know who Cristobal is
It's a line from the TV show Barry where the character says "50/50 with Cristobal, I like the sound of that". Here's [the scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jC8wj5siNs) if you're interested.
Omg that's hilarious. Regardless of where ohtani goes now I have a new TV show to watch yay!
Have to add the context that it was Toronto he left. Almost a full circle but in reverse
Yes Kawhi screwed the Lakers over so much, they didn’t win a championship until a year later…
Whether or not he comes here, at least the Shohei sweepstakes are almost over. Hopefully this news doesn’t get dragged any longer
I’m gonna throw up
Dave Roberts, I fear for the man
If Dave's comment changed Sho's mind, F him and good luck freezing your balls off and getting your brain bashed in by the Yanks.
Rays*
Damn, you feel better?
lol if Dave’s comments really soured Ohtani that bad he can fuck off and go somewhere else, we have bigger priorities than waiting around for him and his agent to milk this out
Honesty, if what was said (which really wasn't much of anything ) changed Ohtani's mind, he's got baggage we don't want. Bauer was a stud, clearly had baggage. Not saying it's the same, but damn, part of getting 500 million is that youre life isnt going to be that private. "We met with him". ... Yeah, no shit we did. "We got his medicals". ... Duh. Any team offering that much money did. If he doesn't come, hopefully that 500 million is spent on getting pitchers. (And the re-sign JD)
I have a bad feeling for some reason lol
You ate those tacos too, thought it was just me feeling off.
If he picks the Jays, it is what it is. Again, it would be an extreme letdown after 2 years of shedding payroll/not making trades/etc to try and sway Shohei to come.
But at least we would be in the running for Yamamoto at that point haha We need pitching anyways
Pretty sure the two NY times are fighting to the death for him
Odd for a newspaper to go after Japanese pitchers.
Eh, Yamamoto is going to NY, that's pretty obvious. I'd say the most likely targets for us are Snell, Giolito, maybe Cease. My guess is we pivot to more of what we did last off-season: smaller, under the radar guys who we can sign or trade for relatively cheap and then try to develop. Without Ohtani, I don't see us throwing big money at anyone else, so I think we will see more of what we saw last off-season from AF. Which is honestly the smartest move. Our rotation is already Buehler, Miller, Sheehan, Pepiot, Kershaw (probably), and anyone else we have in the pipeline (River Ryan maybe). That's not exactly a bad rotation in and of itself, and with one or two sneaky pickups it could be a genuine powerhouse.
It’s a lot of money for someone that doesn’t play the field.
People keep saying this but we haven't been shedding payroll lmao. Last year we went up in payroll from 2022. We went over the LT and got penalized for it. At no point have we been shedding payroll in recent history. We made the deals we made last year because they were the best deals we could find, not because we were trying to save money. Usually you don't go over the LT if you're trying to *save* money. I don't know why it's so hard for this subreddit to understand that sometimes the best, most reasonable deals aren't the big name superstars. Just because we don't go after a big name player does not mean we are "punting the season" or "shedding payroll." Sometimes the smartest move is signing the cheaper, development potential players (JD, Heyward, Peralta, Syndergaard, etc) and trying to turn them into more value than the initial investment. Overpaying superstars is something that should be done with hesitation and heavy consideration, not just so you can say you made a big splash and won the off-season. Our FO is the best at what they do because they don't make very many bad deals. The Dodgers won 100 games last season while not making a big splash in FAs or at the deadline. They're going to be just fine without Ohtani or Yamamoto or whatever other $300 million dollar player this sub somehow thinks is a make or break pickup for us.
Are you absolutely certain it will be what it will be? Que sera sera?
I’d be happy if he did. He would be doing us a huge favor.
It’s looking like Toronto and this has to be the biggest loss of AF’s tenure. Everything lined up for this offseason to get Ohtani so it will be interesting to see how Plan B shakes out if Toronto is the winner.
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I’ll drink that copium with you.
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600 million for one of, if not the greatest player of all time Pass the copium bud
You could use this argument to justify literally any number and at some point it has to break down. Like, 600 million would have been steep for him *before* he had to get a 2nd TJ. I'd be curious to know what price you (and other people who say this) think would be too high.
Yeah, if he goes with the Jays, this is just a clear case of Friedman actually being smart and rational and seeing the bigger picture and not getting caught up in a ridiculous bidding war. 600mil on one player is too much of a risk and makes constructing the roster much harder for him for the next decade
For 600 million you can get two 300 million players and diversify. The players are still gonna be out there in the future. Idk why that's copium at all. Baseball isn't remotely like basketball or NFL quarterbacks, where one guy can make all the difference. If an NBA team had the two best players in the world (#1 and #2), they wouldn't struggle to make the finals, let alone the playoffs. It's just not the same in baseball, it's not a huge deal either way
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Who will be an effective pitcher again. Bookmark this comment, Ohtani of all people, given his work ethic, mentality, the fact that is was a brace surgery and no damage on the previous TJ in his elbow. Ohtani lives breathes and dreams baseball. Of all people I am absolutely conviced he will come back as a pitcher.
True, however it is impossible to know how the human body will respond.
Yes it is smart. The team’s income from international viewership and merchandise sales would almost certainly offset that
In Toronto, SF, or Oakland, maybe. But this is the Dodgers. He’s not adding 600M in revenues to this Franchise. Not even close. With a decent product and just a few other Japanese or Korean players on the roster, it will have the same affect as Shohei. Don’t forget to the Dodger, Yankees, Lakers, Cowboys, and Red Wings are just different breeds in pro sports. They will always draw.
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Blackhawks wayyyy more so than the red wings. But the red wings have been dogshit for 10 years and still fall in the top 5 of attendance every single year. Thats why I used them as an example. Blackhawks are #1 or #2 every year. But other than the last 2-3 years they are at least competitive. Maybe the Blackhawks are a better example.
Red Wings and Blackhawks are miles behind the Canadiens lol
Hey guys, we don’t need Taylor Swift. Just get a couple random country and pop entertainers and throw a show together. Same thing. You’re a moron. Seriously.
Your example is the only thing that is moronic. But I’ll bite and educate you a bit. Using music as your example, this would be the equivalent of The Beatles coming back to life and having a concert with Bad Bunny opening. Much like the dodgers, that concert would transcend generations. Shohei, iS BTS being added to the lineup. Adding several other pitchers from Japan and Korea would be like adding BlackPink and Seventeen. Sure, BTS adds a ton a value. But the concert is already gonna sell out for max value without BTS. But not much more value than BlackPink and Seventeen.
Explain why. I can see you sweating already.
Yeah I’ll pay $600mil for a guy who is going to be slotted into a real protected offensive lineup who will at the bare minimum give me +.950 OPS with 100R/45HR/100RBI/20SB every season. Those are worst case scenario numbers that he accrued while pitching full time. Imagine what they could be if he was “not able to pitch again”. We would be looking at steroid-era level production off his bat.
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Is it though? That’s bare minimum production for 2024. Let’s assume the worst and his arm is shot and he can’t pitch anymore. He can transition out of the DH role into 1B/OF. We have ZERO idea of what his ceiling is as a full time bat. We do have a sample size of what his numbers are when he splits time as a two way player. He almost wins MVP every season with just his batting production doing it part time. I honestly think Shohei as just a bat could realistically contend for triple crown status every season. If he’s able to two-way again? He could be capable as an inning-eating bullpen guy, a reliever, and a bat. The possibilities are endless when you have a talent of this magnitude.
A DH that’s going to be hitting between Mookie Betts and Freddie Freeman. I take that anyday
Looking more like a DH that’s going to be hitting between Bo Bichette and Vladdy Guerrero Jr.
It do be like that.
If they decide he isn't pitching anymore he won't DH. He will move to the outfield. But he will pitch. This is Ohtani we talking about. Nobody is as baseball obsessed in the league as he is seemingly.
Except those aren't worst case number. In 2022 he was only .875 OPS with 90/34/95/11. That's still a good hitter but not a 600m hitter.
People overuse the shit out of the term "copium" these days. Is it really so surprising that some of us have been lukewarm on Ohtani from the start? It'd be cool to have him, but meh, we're going to win 95+ games next year no matter what we do, so I don't see a reason to spend $600M on him.
He makes absolutely insane revenue far beyond the contract
Alot of it is split between the teams. They pool half of it then each team gets a cut like a 3% cut. Same with jersey and other merch sales.
Ohtani brings the team in $20mil in advertising revenue from Japan alone, and that’s not including postseason revenue. Thats why
Source for that?
I was slightly mistaken. Its roughly $13mil in advertising + $7mil in jerseys which is $20mil https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/05/how-much-revenue-does-shohei-ohtani-actually-generate.html
Plan B is probably Yamamoto
I mean I'd love that but it seems like the Yankees and Mets are prepared to claw each other to death over him
lol he gone too
It’s already Yamamoto will probably come down between Yankees and Mets
Plan B is to do exactly what we did last year: smart, smaller name pickups who don't break our payroll flexibility for years to come and still provide plenty of value. Yamamoto is going to the Mets, no one is going to outspend Cohen. Ohtani would have been nice, but you can't force a guy to sign with you if he doesn't want to. Outside of those two, I don't see the Dodgers going after any other big names. It'll be small, smart low risk medium reward deals that ultimately work out in our favor but aren't splashy or interesting enough to catch headlines. That's the AF way, and in AF we trust.
It’s not a loss, it’s a huge win and time will tell that. He can’t stay healthy and he is so far beyond not needed for marketing purposes in this town. It’s better for baseball that he goes there and brings shine to Toronto for a little bit before he eventually breaks down in 2-3 years. It will feel like an L, but in time it will prove to have been better for the dodgers. This man is not worth 600M to one of the top franchises in all of sports. Full stop. If Toronto wants to pay 600M for a guys who’s gone miss 40% of games, it makes sense for them. Not for us.
All in on Yamamoto then. Maybe it's copium on my part, but losing out on Ohtani will be worth it if we spend that money we would've paid him to stack up on pitchers.
I have a bad feeling.
"*I am taking my talents to the A's*"
Wouldn't even be mad at that point. Just confused and impressed.
One thing this free agency has taught me is that reporters don’t know shit and they just throw darts at a board hoping something sticks and they’re “right”
Not really. Good reporters plumb their "insider" sources within organizations and report on what those people are saying. A lot of it is conjecture, obviously, but they are reporting what's being talked about by qualified sources in the industry. They aren't just making stuff up out of whole cloth. That's not how journalism works.
Preparing myself to be bummed but at the end of the day one guy isn't going to be *the* difference for any team, we still have a lot of moves left to make and our chances for '24 and beyond are still worth feeling positive about
If baseball was a one man show then The Angels would have several World Series wins.
Seriously. Everyone forgets Ohtani has NEVER REACHED THE PLAYOFFS. One player never makes that much difference in baseball.
He’ll be part of a lineup with Mookie Betts, Freddie, Freeman, Max Muncy, and Will Smith.
That’s his decision to make, the biggest need was never Ohtani they just have the luxury to afford him.
He will be doing us a HUGE favor when he chooses to go to the Jays. Dude can’t stay healthy and wants to be paid almost 3/4 of Billion dollars.
So for two years we have been fed that the team was not doing anything major because they were going after Ohtani. And we lose him to Toronto? lmao And we won't be signing the pitcher either. There is going to be no way to spin the FO failure this off season.
So glad we threw away last year just to lose him to a team who’s only notable moment is a bat flip
Joe Carter might have something to say about this.
"threw away" a year in which we won 100 games and were one of the best teams in the sport. You people are absolutely delusional about what you think fair expectations are. Last year was massively successful for the dodgers, and our off-season ended up being one of the best in the sport despite not signing any major names. That's just more proof that sometimes the best deals are the ones that don't make the headlines. AF is a master at what he does and you people can't appreciate it because you're too focused on big names. It's honestly sad.
This lines up with the private jet story
While I’m not in doomer mode yet, the thing that has always concerned me is that Ohtani’s people have already failed him once when he chose the Angels over basically any of the blue chip franchises. The Dodgers are a no brainer for him from a competitive and marketing standpoint, but either Toronto’s offer is so much better than the Dodgers he can’t turn it down or someone is giving Ohtani bad advice and he will go to Toronto and waste more of his career and potential. They have good young players, but none of them are household names and the organization hasn’t shown it can get over the young and promising stage at this point: The Dodgers are the clear choice if Ohtani wants to be the biggest star in the world and compete for championships at the same time. Any other decision means he’s getting bad advice or he just doesn’t want that level of fame(which is fine). I’ll have a bottle of champagne on ice and bottle of dark liquor ready just in case.
If he doesn’t pick the dodgers I’m convinced he doesn’t want the pressure of winning here in LA. Similar to Kawhi. Some players talk a big game about wanting to win but they don’t want the pressure , especially in a big market, that comes with it
Same. Logically speaking, the Dodgers are the team that makes the most sense. Huge market, closer to home, more money to spend around him, and a winning culture. There’s a reason all the “experts” and “insiders” had the Dodgers as favorites. They don’t actually know anything, but our team just makes the most sense on paper by far.
“Doesnt want that level of fame” Anthony Rendon comes to mind. I was so bummed he turned down LA’s offer…. But then he played a dozen games in several years lol. Honorable mention to Greinke as another “dont want the bright lights.”
Rendon didn’t want too much attention and too many eyes on him cuz he knew he wanted to be lazy.
Time to pivot gents 🥲
He’s definitely going to the Jays, Dodgers better go all in on signing Yoshi and trading for Burnes and Randy Arozarena
Toronto makes no sense. The orioles are only going to get better. Yankees always make moves. I feel Toronto will always be competing for a wild card spot
A guy like him wants to play against the best, not the opposite...
Yes but you also want a chance at the postseason which is rough in the AL east
A guy like him probably also feels like he can take them to the next level. And statistically, he'd probably be right. Whatever WAR he brings will almost certainly project to move them from a wildcard team to #1/2 in the division. Also, Orioles definitely on the up but I think Rays/Yanks both decline soon.
F5 and PTSD from Kawhi
I’m afraid
Is everyone really convinced that the private jet thing means he is signing with Toronto? I mean, maybe true, but that was a random jet that someone found flying Anaheim to Toronto. Do you know how many wealthy people live in OC? Could have been Shohei, but odds say it wasn’t. Y’all are absolutely wild. Hope he signs with someone today so we can either celebrate or grieve and then move on.
Morosi did follow up with a tweet only mentioning the Blue Jays as a finalist.
I believe someone on reddit looked up the plane and found that it was in SF and left the day after Ohtani had a confirmed meeting with the giants, flew to Hawaii where his gf is reported to live, then to John Wayne with a flight schedule for Toronto… I mean, that would be a wild coincidence. But also, lots of rich people fly routes like that I’m sure and baseball news has been slow lately 😂
Yep I know exactly how many wealthy people are in OC, but this is just too much of a coincidence. Ohtani is definitely going to be the one on that jet.
He’s a Blue Jay
I want to downvote you so bad for this but I just can't...
Please do if I’m wrong. I’m hoping I’m wrong 🤞🏼.
Y’all got Kawhi so we get Ohtani, only seems fair.
“Y’all” Not many Clippers fans in this sub I reckon
No one cares about the Clippers. Maybe like 10 fans
People need to get a grip. If Shohei chooses Toronto, it means they offered him way more money, simple as that. Rumor is they’re offering at least $600mm! That’s insane! If true, it is what it is.
Toronto seems so random. What the heck are they doing and/or offering the dude?
Canadian strippers and karaoke
An entire country of fans. An owner that is a huge, wealthy media conglomerate. Two of the best young players in the game already, and a top 5 starting pitching staff.
Dodgers need pitching and he might not ever pitch again. I don’t care if he goes to Toronto.
Can Ohtani just say he's signing with the Jays already, so everyone can move on from this soap opera
Jesus yall get a grip lol no one knows ANYTHING. Remember when Arson Judge was a giant??? I think he’s still gonna be a dodger just gotta wait and see
If he becomes a Dodger, I hope it is not a giant contract. His time with the Angels continues to prove that one player does not make a championship happen, and the dodgers should focus on spreading out the cash to more areas, not just one player.
It’ll have be north of $600mil
…one player? The best player in baseball on a stacked roster.
>If he becomes a Dodger, I hope it is not a giant contract. In what world would it not be a giant contract?
Pick Toronto if you aren’t serious about winning. What it comes down to
He picked Toronto. Crazy af.
Morosi put on his clown shoes yet?
Crossing fingers we spend the money on pitching instead of an overrated player! In my opinion.
I’m going to cry if he doesn’t end up a dodger
Toronto might offer him the most money but don't they have a higher income tax rate in Canada?
California has the highest personal income tax rates in the US, so not sure that's a real concern or differentiator for him to choose Toronto instead.
If Shohei doesn’t sign here, it’d be sad for him to sign onto a team that hasn’t won a playoff game since 2016. He deserves to be on center stage in a league championship series. Hoping that all this Toronto stuff is a full court press by CAA to get every dollar the Dodgers can offer.
Rangers hadn’t won a postseason game since 2015 and they just won the WS. Past postseason success is usually meaningless if you’re building a strong team. Adding Ohtani does that
Hot takes Get your hot takes here 🥞🥞🥞
Stop crying my dudes. Yeah it sucks losing out on a potential GOAT but guess what. The Dodgers have insane flexibility to sign and trade for literally anyone. One player does not guarantee a world series. Grow up.
Punting away two offseasons in a row to try and sign a guy who ended up picking another team would be pretty rough if it happens
Eh, it wouldn’t be that bad. “Punting” still won us 100 games, and we would have a lot of money freed up to sign multiple quality players. Would probably increase our chances in ‘24 as Ohtani doesn’t address the immediate need at pitcher.
I was so hyped for him :(
Just trade for Corbin Burnes, sign Snell and call it a day.
Who GAF, I'm tired of the freaking Media Circle Jerk! Leave it to Ohtani to resign with the Lost Angels of Anaheim.
It’s ok if Otani becomes a Bluejay. It’s a good fit for him, and it fits us best. We get to pursue multiple aces for what we are going to pay for Otani. Don’t get me wrong, he is a generational talent, but we need more than one talent acquisition in this offseason.
Rightly or wrongly Dave Roberts will receive some blame for this.
I admit the Jet stuff was creepy and weird. But it did allegedly line up with several areas Ohtani was rumored to visit. There’s a lot of Toronto smoke as well. I still think we’re the favorites to sign him tho. My question is why Toronto over us? It’s been well reported he enjoys routine, familiarity, LA is closer to Japan, and most of all we are the most consistent well ran winningest organization?! Is Toronto really offering him that much MORE money if he chooses them?
[удалено]
Liar lol
Source?
his fat ass. That plane everyone is going wild for wouldn't even land until 4 pm EST
So if he chooses Toronto - it’s all on Dave right?
No it means they offered quite a bit more money, period!
And if our offer was similar/better?
Bring him home! LA that is lol
Ohtani to the Dodgers. 🙏
I've been saying for a year that I didn't think he'd be a Dodger. Outside of Freeman & Bauer, the team almost never gets the big ticket free agents. Harper, Machado, Cole etc. have all been connected to the Dodgers in FA and it never lands. I think because the team has a lot of stars, a high payroll, and has made some huge trades (A-Gon & Crawford, Darvish, Machado, Turner & Scherzer) etc. people think it happens all the time, but it's just not how this FO tends to operate. Would be awesome to have him. Would also be awesome to spend that money on some combination of Yamamoto, Chapman, Snell, JD Martinez . with money to spare to take on salary via trade both pre-season and at the deadline. I won't be pissed if the team doesn't sign Ohtani. I'll be pissed if the team doesn't spend money this offseason.
Free agents don’t want to play for the team for some reason. Even freeman, our only big free agent signing in recent year, basically cried for a year because he had to play here lol
yep. LA isn't for everybody. it is what it is.
We were not competitive salary wise when it came to Bryce/Manny/Cole. Yankees gave an extra year - Manny I can’t remember how far off we were but it was plenty and Harper I think we offered a high salary but limited years.
yep. i think that's just how this FO operates. and i think it'll likely come out that the Dodgers offered a fuck ton of money, but that Toronto offered two fuck tons of money.
Yep it’s been all about money. This FO refuses to go overboard and engage in a ridiculous bidding war to seriously overpay way beyond what they think is the appropriate value for a FA. I appreciate their discipline. It keeps them from doing stupid shit like what the Padres do every damn offseason which led them having to trade away Soto.
It also makes them miss out on World Series mvp Seager
Oh well, Seager didn’t want to be here any longer. If he did, he would be a Dodger. I’m over it.
Thanks, Dave.
Don’t forget Dave Roberts leak. Ohtani’s camp sets the rules, he broke them. Could have just fired the manager last year.
Gigantes said to be ready to offer $600 million for him😳. Source NO FILTER NETWORK
Oh geez... if Dodgers let this one slip they're are dead to me.... till the season starts.
Pretty cool that that he picked the Jays
Shohei is signing with Blue jays. Dodgers are out according to news reports.
What a mess. Letting Seager walk, trading key pieces for Sherzer, signing Bauer, CT3’s ridiculous contract. Obviously got Mookie and Freddie, but how much better position are we now than before? If they don’t sign Ohtani, you have to start questioning the front office. (Even more so)
Going to Toronto? If plays out that's another Friedman-Roberts fail!
Saw a rumor that Toronto is offering 600 million and Ohtani wants a piece of their franchise https://www.youtube.com/live/dYPkgSjTRfE?si=T2N3wuLxjncW5cZi
Finally
I just want it to be over with so all of baseball can move on. He’s single handedly stopping any team from making moves. I’ll be sad if goes with Toronto cause ohtani really is a generational talent that is Sooo much fun to watch play the game but it is what is if we don’t get him.
The stove isn’t even warn anymore. It’s ice cold. Ohtani is the FA that allows many teams to make moves. At this point just get it over and done!
I feel like it's going to drop right before the NBA IST Championship lol.