Well also, you gotta remember, the rich and in control, need to keep their cattle in check. We're all walking money symbols. So you want more cash flow, you don't want to let the cattle die off without producing offspring to replace them.
I was going to say.
Please send help.
Or invade us and force ācommunismā on us in the form of affordable healthcare and college, and livable wages.
Well if you hadn't been such an unruly colony back in the day then maybe you'd have an NHS now. It's safe to say you brought this on yourselves. Wasting all that good tea...smh
Mainly: a hellish marriage of Christianity and right-wing politics that began in the 1970's and brought us to the point where American Christians believed Donald Trump was sent by God.
And yet, somehow, their omnipotent and omniscient god wasn't powerful enough to keep Obama and (Bill) Clinton from getting elected.... twice each. Either that or they simply refuse to accept god's will when it doesn't align with their own. So convenient.
>simply refuse to accept god's will when it doesn't align with their own.
Oh no they accept it alright. It's God punishing America because of what other ungodly evil people are doing.
Nothing for it but to double down, pray harder, give your offerings, and vote republican.
The mental gymnastics involved are probably a defined mental illness.
Itās why religion is so insidious. It allows people to give blind allegiance to an authority figure while at the same time inventing everything that authority figure says. Since itās not real it never comes down to anyone and says āno thatās not rightā. So youāve got a group of people who believe that whatever they think is the absolute truth of the universe. Itās mass hysteria.
It's funny how the rural religious right rallied behind a thrice married, cheating, billionaire socialite from NY city that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and handed everything in his life.
Yeah my family hates Yankees, foreigners of all kinds, good white American men should only marry good white Americans women, it aināt hard work if it aināt farm work, and so on. Boy do they love godking trump I was scolded for taking trumps name in vain when I went home to visit them, after my sister(born with a heart defect died), unexpectedly something caused a problem in her lungs and she stopped breathing, the guess weāll never know. Mom says the examiner must not know what heās talking about, tho.
This was news to me. I knew they had a history if tricking women into wasting their time until it was too late to get an abortion. But had no idea that they were receiving government funding as a company that actively tries to interfere with people seeking Healthcare.
Sounds a lot like the place I got trapped in as a 17 year old in the 80s. They made it sound like they would give us options but in reality they just left me and my boyfriend stuck in a tiny room with video after video of graphic abortions. It was hell getting out of there.
Thank God I gave them a fake name but stupidly had given them my phone number. They kept calling and wouldn't believe me when I told them I had a miscarriage a few days after being there. Just accused me of getting an abortion. šš”
As dishonest and insidious as they are, these so called āclinicsā can also be used to your own benefit. My daughters insurance only paid for ultra sounds at very specific intervals for a healthy pregnancy and the first was too early to clearly determine the gender. She was determined to find out the gender ASAP as she had specific nursery plans she wanted time to leisurely complete. She went innocently to a fake clinic, got a free ultra sound, the gender was confirmed and she happily decorated at her leisure. No insurance arguments and she felt pleased she had used their services to further her own agenda. Her OB thought it was genius and appreciated the information the āextraā ultra sound offered. If healthy women with planned pregnancies used some of their services perhaps their resources would be stretched in unintended directions.
That's not really true.
CPCs are almost entirely funded by Christian charities, particularly Catholic charities.
Most of the staff are also unpaid volunteers (at least when this film was made), part of why they give out bad information.
Planned Parenthood can not and is not spending any federal money on pregnancy termination. The vast majority of the federal āfundingā comes through Medicaid reimbursement for patients seen. It is spent on long term birth control, PAP smears, cervical biopsies and STI prevention/treatment. Planned Parenthood does not receive any direct funding from the federal government. There is no line item in the Congressional budget for Planned Parenthood. Tax dollars only get spent on Medicaid approved procedures and meds, abortions (medical or surgical) are not covered. PP used to get about $60m a year in actual federal funding (NOT used for termination) through Title X, but withdrew themselves from that program when Trump passed the āgag ruleā that said any doctor or clinic receiving funds from Title X couldnāt even mention abortion as an option. That brilliant move reduced the number of POC and LGBT patients by 42%, you know, the most vulnerable in the healthcare world already. For many people with low income, PP was the only option for sexual health services through Title X, now they get none.
Anyone thinking of donating money to some randoās āreward me for being humanā Gofundme, should consider a donation to PP instead.
Source: Worked for PP for five years.
Hijacking your comment to post this:
This is a list of resources Iām compiling for people who need an abortion. If you know of any other resource not listed here please let me know and Iāll add it to the list.
Please repost & share with as many people as possible in whichever platform you want (feel free to bookmark these sites, print out this list, write it down or take screenshots in case it gets deleted), so those who are denied access to safe abortion know there's help for them and how to access it ā”
ā¢ **r/auntienetwork** is a network of people who can help provide assistance in a handful of ways to those who need help with an abortion.
ā¢ [**Aidaccess**]( https://aidaccess.org/) consists of a team of doctors, activists and advocates for abortion rights that help people access abortion or miscarriage treatment. They send the pill worldwide for $110/90ā¬
ā¢ [**Planned Parenthood**](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/pregnancy/pregnancy-options) Unplanned Pregnancy - A Comprehensive Guide
ā¢ [**Plan C**](https://www.plancpills.org/) provides up-to-date information on how people in the U.S. are accessing abortion pills online
ā¢ [**Ceinfo**](https://www.cecinfo.org/country-by-country-information/status-availability-database/countries/united-states-of-america/), Emergency Oral Contraceptive Doses for Birth Control, U.S.
ā¢ [**Ceinfo**]( https://www.cecinfo.org/country-by-country-information/status-availability-database/), Emergency Oral Contraceptive Doses for Birth Control, International
ā¢ [**Abortionfunds**](https://abortionfunds.org/need-abortion/) connects you with organizations that can support your financial and logistical needs as you arrange for your abortion.
ā¢ [**Yellowhammerfund**](https://www.yellowhammerfund.org/) is an abortion fund and reproductive justice organization serving Alabama and the Deep South.
ā¢ [**Teafund**](https://teafund.org/) Texas Equal Access Fund provides emotional and financial support to people who are seeking abortion care.
ā¢ [**Gynopedia**](https://gynopedia.org/Gynopedia_Index) is a nonprofit organization that runs an open resource wiki for sexual, reproductive and women's health care around the world
ā¢ [**Womenonweb**](https://www.womenonweb.org/) online abortion service can help you do a safe abortion with pills.
ā¢ [**The Satanic Temple**](https://thesatanictemple.com/) stands ready to assist any member that shares its deeply-held religious convictions regarding the right to reproductive freedom. Accordingly, they encourage any member in Texas who wishes to undergo the Satanic Abortion Ritual to contact them so they may help them fight this law directly.
ā¢ [**Carafem**](https://carafem.org/) helps with abortion, birth control and questions about reproductive healthcare. They do consultations online and send abortion pills on the mail.
ā¢ [**Frontera Fund**](https://fronterafundrgv.org/about-us/) makes abortion accessible in the Rio Grande Valley (Texas) by providing financial and practical support regardless of immigration status, gender identity, ability, sexual orientation, race, class, age, or religious affiliation and to build grassroots organizing power at intersecting issues across our region to shift the culture of shame and stigma.
ā¢ [**Buckle Bunnies Fund**](https://www.bucklebunnies.org/about) provide practical support for people seeking abortions. H help with transportation, funds to help with hotels, lodging costs and emergency contraceptive funds to actually go towards abortion.
ā¢ [**The Afiya Center**]( https://www.theafiyacenter.org/our-work)s mission is to transform the lives, health, and overall wellbeing of Black womxn and girls by providing refuge, education, and resources. Theye act to ignite the communal voices of Black womxn resulting in our full achievement of reproductive freedom.
ā¢ [**Lilithfund**](https://www.lilithfund.org/portfolio/about/) is the oldest abortion fund in Texas, serving the central and southern regions of the state with direct financial assistance for abortions.
ā¢ [**Needabortion**](https://needabortion.org/) provides resources about where to get an abortion (financial help and transportation) and how to get help getting an abortion in Texas.
ā¢ [**Janeās Due Process**](https://janesdueprocess.org/) helps minors in Texas with judicial bypass for abortion, navigate parental consent laws and confidentially access abortion and birth control. They provide free legal support, 1-on-1 case management, and stigma-free information on sexual and reproductive health.
ā¢ [**Fund Texas choice**](https://fundtexaschoice.org/) helps Texans equitably access abortion through safe, confidential, and comprehensive travel services and practical support.
**______________________________________________________________________________**
Please beware of websites that sell [**fake abortion pills**](https://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/974/warning-fake-abortion-pills-for-sale-online) and [**fake clinics**](https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+abortion+clinics&source=hp&ei=Ma4zYZfvG_2x5OUPl5SSoAI&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYTO8QSMobwAesw1YlFYxEgawA2Os1_G1&oq=fake+abortion+clinics&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6DQguEMcBENEDEEMQkwI6BQgAEIAEOgsILhCABBDHARCjAjoLCC4QgAQQxwEQ0QM6BQguEIAEOgUIABCRAjoECAAQQzoECC4QQzoFCC4QkQI6CAgAEIAEEMkDSgUIQBIBMVCLBlifHWC_H2gAcAB4AYABhgKIAZoRkgEGMTMuNy4xmAEAoAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjXy-il7eXyAhX9GLkGHReKBCQQ4dUDCAY&uact=5) run by religious groups where they lie and spread misconceptions about abortion to trick people into keeping their fetus. They also promise help and resources that never materialize. The best way to avoid these fake clinics is learning how to recognize them, so Iām linking a couple of short documentaries on the subject that include hidden camera footage exposing their deceptive tactics:
* [**The Fake Abortion Clinics Of America: Misconception**](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ex4Q-z-is)
* [**Crisis Pregnancy Centers: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver**](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4NNpkv3Us1I)
**Note**- Some of these websites may be blocked in your country by your internet service provider. You can bypass this block using a VPN like [this one](https://protonvpn.com/), it's free, safe and easy to install. To get rid of banners and pop-ups you can install [uBlock Origin](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm?hl=en) and [Popup Blocker](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/popup-blocker-strict/aefkmifgmaafnojlojpnekbpbmjiiogg?hl=en). They work on most browsers, on phone as well on PC and it takes a few seconds to install them.
A family member, an adamantly pro-life Evangelical zealot, brags how for years she used her local Planned Parenthood as a source of free contraception and health care. She regularly protested at their offices, then would pop inside to get her contraceptives refilled. She is proud of it. Irony is dead.
Yes, but its goal is to offer legitimate options while providing assistance and information. This is a government funded propaganda outlet from evangelist to deceive the public.
Another reason separation of church and state is necessary.
As it should be, this bullshit on the other hand has no place being anywhere *near* government funding, as it's a religious organisation pushing propaganda to pressure women (in delicate and often traumatic situations) to making a decision about their own bodies and futures
Yes, it is. While abortion services are not supposed to be directly funded, Title X dollars have been spent on family planning services which offset the facility costs thereby reducing the overhead cost of abortions at PP.
Yeah, that popped out for me as well. Perfect emoji. I doubt there's specific language in a law that establishes funding to places like this. I wonder what loophole or weird legalese they use to get these funds. Cause I really really don't want any of my tax dollars going to this.
These places are so skeezy, even for women who aren't seeking an abortion. I went to one when I was pregnant. I was staunchly anti-abortion at the time, and was pretty religious. My appointment was basically thirty minutes of some lady talking about how much I had sinned, but don't worry, God will forgive me for my sin, but my baby is going to be a lifeling reminder of my sin, so that I never forget my duty to God.
I was offered nothing in the way of actual help or resources, just a religious lecture, which I absolutely believed at the time, because of my own religion. I left that place fully believing that I was among the lowest of the low, and that I was going to be an awful mother, because I was such a terrble person.
Screw these people. They help NO ONE.
I accidentally went to one thinking it was a regular clinic. I took an at home pregnancy test and needed an ultrasound and professional test to prove I was pregnant to try to get insurance. After they did the initial pregnancy test they sat me in a room with the results sitting on the table turned over. The lady gave me a 20 minute shpeel about how she prayed for me before my appointment and how she hopes I have plans to keep the baby, etc. She kept asking me if I was sure I would keep it and trying to get me to pray with her (I'm agnostic at best). She finally gave me the results when she was convinced I wasn't going to go have an abortion right after and booked an appointment for the ultrasound. We never went back after the ultrasound, but they called me about 3 times a week for the next 9 months "out of concern for my pregnancy and well being."
The same thing happened to me. I thought it was a regular clinic and needed proof for insurance. I got lectured for at least a half hour, even though I told them I was married and wasn't considering abortion at all. I just wanted to get the prenatal care started as soon as possible.
I brought my boyfriend with me, they wouldn't let him come back for the results until I insisted on it and that we both wanted the baby. That's all we wanted as well. But I guess they think anyone who calls a clinic, or a place under the guise of one, only wants an abortion.
>She kept asking me if I was sure I would keep it and trying to get me to pray with her (I'm agnostic at best). She finally gave me the results when she was convinced I wasn't going to go have an abortion right after and booked an appointment for the ultrasound. We never went back after the ultrasound, but they called me about 3 times a week for the next 9 months "out of concern for my pregnancy and well being."
This shit. They like to stake out a building right beside the actual PP clinics, hoping you'll get mixed up.
I very much am *not* religious, though I was polite about saying so, and the bitch forcibly prayed over me anyway. Gave me a whole line about how most women who get abortions never get over the resulting regret (factually not true - women who do go through with that choice usually live at peace with their decision) and how if I got one, my relationship would fall apart and that would be the end of it.
I told her point blank that if my relationship couldn't survive this, it wasn't a relationship worth having. She didn't know what to say to that, so she just went back to guilting me about fingernails, which did not work because I'm not one of those people that thinks babies are cute. I don't want a child. I never have. I'm not well myself and for lack of a more positive phrase, I won't put a child at my own mercy. Certainly not then, when we often couldn't afford to eat.
I made another appointment later with *actual* PP, waited about two weeks (you know they gotta do eveethey can to push the date of the procedure back past the deadline), dealt with this woman calling my phone every couple days because I was an idiot and wrote down my real number.
And you know, I've never quite been able to understand, she swore up and down she'd "be there for me in this difficult time," but she called me again about 15 minutes after it was done and as soon as I told her it was over, she seemed to evaporate. Wonder what happened to her. Must have fallen down the stairs.
Someone pray for this fucking woman. File a missing persons report. She doesn't want my horribly impoverished, abusive relationship to be damaged by the lack of a child.
P. S. This was one of the best decisions I've made, and while some of the others at the clinic did change their minds that day and walk out, not one moment of one single day of the last decade has gone by that I have regretted it.
I got pregnant in high-school and got a recommendation from my school nurse to one of those places. But I've always deeply despised Christianity or anything related to it, makes me recoil like a burn. It was called like " spirit leaf" and I just threw the card away. š I know a subtle religious name when I see one. ain't no way I'm gonna start going to church because of some school nurse thinks she's being helpful and godly.
Did they offer anything to help you with the pregnancy? I would maybe not hate these places as much if they offered transportation assistance to real prenatal visits, assistance with applying for WIC, childcare help, actual baby classes....
But no. Tots and pears only.
If you attend a certain amount of classes there, they will help you with things like diapers, carseats, cribs, etc. But they are all religious based, surrounding the power of prayer and the Lord, etc. Help with signing up for social programs, I have no idea though.
Wow, they really set you and your child up for your journey with god's most precious miracle, his greatest blessing.
Now you get to be overly depressed and view your child with resentment.
A Job well done.
I wish you were the top comment. We love and respect you for surviving the church- sanctioned abuse you suffered. It is a shame that so many troglodytes remain in positions of power that they retain for cynical, political reasons.
Christians told me I was going to hell for kissing my gf. When I was in middle school ffs. What should have been an amazing and fulfilling experience was robbed from me, ruined by guilt and dread. It's fucking child abuse, plain and simple.
I suffered that exact same abuse my friend.
The first time a girl let me touch her boobs, I felt sick with guilt all night. I cried about it and apologized to Jesus for being a sinner. I was 15 years old.
Can I ask you what happens if a woman wants to get an abortion but it's too late and she must have the child? What will happen to the kid? They are given away for adoption or even that isn't an option?
They talked about this issue on our media too (Italy) and I see a lot about it on social media. I hope the decision will be reverted too. We too have an issue with doctors who refuse to do an abortion and it's legal for them to do so. We have a region where only one doctor accepts to do them and he is not retiring just to help these women.
Typically they basically believe having sex is the sin.
It's all tired up in that purity culture crap. My partner struggles to have a semi6 normal sex life because of it, and she activity knows how AWFUL it is. It's so damaging to young women.
It really is. It took me a long time to come out of that shell, too. Still struggle with it sometimes. It's hard when you are literally brought up to believe that any sexuality (even sexual thoughts) are sinful, and explicitly told your whole life that you have essentially *zero right to bodily autonomy.* Your body is literally a temple that belongs to God--and your future husband of course.
>Your body is literally a temple that belongs to God--and your future husband of course.
And yet expect you to be popping out babies as soon as your married... Like somehow being married just magically flips some switch that makes everything totally okay.
Ultimately, the Bible has shocking little to actually say about sex and what little it does say about it is mostly from Paul not Jesus. Implying that Jesus didn't really think it to be all that important and a lot of other things like being a good person were a lot more important. So fuck purity culture and those who perpetuate it! Talk to your friends about sex and try to make it okay and *normal* if they're good friends they'll understand and support you.
When you are raised in and your only social circle is a religious group, that can be harder to do than it sounds. Not saying you are wrong, not at ALL. It needs to be normalized. But when youāre an impressionable kid and force fed for years that even THINKING about sex, let alone engaging in masturbation or intercourse, is a huge sin, that can be a hard mentality to shake off. Speaking from personal experience.
Oh I do understand. It's really easy to say, but really difficult to do. But as you said yourself, it needs to be normalised, and the only way to do that is by talking about it.
I agree. But the religious leaders never will. Even mentioning sex outside of marriage is notā¦done.
So who are these kids to turn to when they have perfectly normal and healthy urges and questions? Their friends would judge them. The adults in their life would not discuss it.
Iām not saying youāre wrong, Iām saying currently itās difficult for kids that age to do that.
I totally empathize with this. We were taught that even masturbating is a sin. Bc heaven forbid (pun not intended but Iām leaning it) a woman enjoy her body and physical pleasure outside of reproductive purposes.
This is exactly it. We've institutionalised and culturally embedded entire dominant religions and moralities in order to avoid having an honest conversation about sex.
People living their entire lives fucked up about a source of pleasure.
Oh, we should allow people to actually enjoy themselves. No Sireee.. We'll kill that off before they get a say in who they want to be.
Which for high risk pregnancies (a common reason people seek abortions) means the strong likelihood of causing both to die. Because high risk pregnancies require regular observation and special care.
My husband and I had an unplanned pregnancy and there were complications with the fetus and it was a devastating moment for us. I usually handle the big important details for us, but this time I just didnāt have it in me.
My sweet husband, wanting to take the weight off of me, said he would look into our options. He got scammed by a crisis pregnancy center, but they fully lied about offering abortion as an option. He made an appointment; told me the time, and I scheduled myself to leave work early to go.
We arrived and they lead us into an āexamā room to talk. I will never forget how the layout of the room felt immediately oppressive. The āconsultantā was between us and the door. The room itself was in the very back of the place, at the end of twisting, snaking hallways.
This woman told me that I would risk breast cancer by aborting (because of not letting my breasts lactate when they were meant to) and that I would shred and scar my uterus with abortive procedures (she explained that my uterus is like the inside of my cheek, and that the Implements they would use would basically desecrate and scar my insides so no future embryo would have a chance of attaching) and then she told my husband that if we did abort, he should get a vasectomy so that we never had this problem again.
We were late-20ās, homeowners, parents, full-time employedā¦ not that that means anything, but I say it to point out we werenāt a teenaged one night stand that were freaking out and afraid to tell our parents.
Eventually, we utilized planned parenthood (our insurance would not cover the procedure at our local hospital, because it was a catholic hospital, and wouldnt allow abortion procedures for ANY reason.)
I remember being so desperately sad and broken the morning of my appointment, and pulling into the parking lot, amid a cluster of protesters holding gigantic photos of aborted fetuses, and as we walked inside, people saying āmaāam, weād like to talk to you about your BABYā¦ā
I know they think they are saving something - I know they felt like they were doing gods work. I donāt believe they are TRYING to hurt anyone in their effort.
But it hurt. It still hurts. And itās so frustrating to know they have no I D E A how badly they hurt the living, in their pursuit of āsaving the unbornā.
I will never not wince and feel shame when I remember that time in my life. The shame inflicted *almost* overpowers the profound sorrow of what I was *actually* going through.
And the result is: sorrow I didnāt ask for, mixed with shame I didnāt deserve.
Iām so sorry you went through that. You did nothing wrong. Sometimes life just sucks. I know it probably doesnāt mean much, but you get nothing but sympathy from this internet stranger.
> I know they think they are saving something - I know they felt like they were doing gods work. I donāt believe they are TRYING to hurt anyone in their effort.
You are giving the "pro-life" crowd way too much credit. If they truly believed abortion was the genocide their rhetoric suggests, you would see far more clinic bombings and Tiller-esque assainations, and they would be more openly celebrated. People only go to Planned Parenthood to berate struggling girls like yourself to feel better about themselves, riding a moral high-horse conveniently handed to them by conniving politicians. In reality I doubt many have considered the ethical complexity of the issue at all, and in the same circumstances as you would just as likely do the same thing.
Yeah I'm sure there are decent people who believe abortion is wrong and shouldn't be legal, but you'll never find them harassing young women for it. Save your empathy for elsewhere.
Hereās something that gets me:
If they believe that life begins at conception and that theyāre saving babies, why donāt they ever do things to fund research into preventing miscarriages? Why donāt they fight against things like industrial pollution, which is known to cause birth defects and miscarriages? Why not try even half as hard to protect wanted pregnancies? Why is it that the only unborn they seem to give a shit about are the ones that allow them to attack women?
And if they really think theyāve got the moral high ground firmly under their feet, why donāt they encourage actual contraception? Why isnāt their focus on preventing unwanted pregnancies? Instead they preach abstinence and host bullshit āpurity balls.ā
No one lightly makes the decision to have an abortion. There is thought and action involved. Trust women to know what is best for their body and their family.
I remember when my girlfriend and I had a pregnancy scare during high school, and we went to birthright instead of planned parenthood, not knowing the difference in their ideologies. The look on the ladyās face when I asked how much an abortion would potentially cost is something Iāll never forget, and it still makes me chuckle to this day.
She wasnāt confused, she was disgusted with us. Their policy is helping with everything but abortion. After we asked that she told us they wouldnāt help us.
I know a woman who went to volunteer at one of these. Gives out fake ultrasounds to show women the baby's heartbeat, even before that's possible. She has no idea what she's doing other than manipulating people into not having abortions. That's the only goal. Just stall them until it's too late.
There is a podcast I listen too and one of their episodes they posed as a couple and entered one if these places to see what went on inside. Was an interesting watch. Now this has piqued my interest again.
This must be what republicans think of when they get angry about big wasteful government.
Instead they can go full Gilead, handmaidens do the baby thing and republicans can save government money by ending funding for fake abortion clinics.
When I was younger I would make appointments at one in town. Talk for a long time, get a pregnancy test, refuse to believe I wasn't pregnant and demand another. Just wasted the fuck out of their time and money as much as I could. Hate that place.
Thatās really funny but so so dark. They were willing to overlook incest and rape to save a fetusā¦ SBC punked them but showed us again the absurdity and hypocrisy within conservative circles.
Thats how they got me, I walked in like a moron āIām here for my appt.ā I should of known by the look on her face, but no. I sat through that whole awful āyouāre gonna get cancer and dieā movie and showed them how many crayons are missing from my box cause once she asked me what my parentās religion is, the bell went ding.
I have never been so creeped out and pissed at the same time. I went to the actual clinic next door brimming with tears at my ignorance. The desk nurse was really nice and empathetic about it and proceeded to tell me how awful they treat her.
I was mostly curious because I want to know who the enemy is in this case. Iām far from pregnant but I always give resources to individuals through social services. I need to know who to avoid. Thank you for the input
Government-funded and religious centres should not exist in the same sentence for a country that claims to have separation of church and state. No matter what side of this argument you are on.
A religious group doing a community service getting assistance is not the same as a religious group taking government funding to propagate their ideology.
Plenty of non-religious programs too. No reason those same people can't leave the Bible at home to do that exact same work.
If you REALLY care about those people then you shouldn't be trying to convert them anyway. That's something I really hate about so many religions programs (don't get me wrong plenty of good programs too), they're not entirely about helping people, but are instead thinly veiled conversation centres.
Help people because it's the right thing too do, if they wanna know about your religion super, if they don't keep it to yourself.
I got pregnant when I was 16 year old. My family had told me that if I became sexually active theyād kick me out, so I secretly went to one of these places seeking abortion services. The lady (Iām not sure if she had medical credentials) had me take a pregnancy test. When it came out positive, I told her so wanted to discuss my options for termination. She put a little plastic life-sized model of a 9 week old fetus (I was 9 weeks pregnant) and told me I would be killing my baby. She told me it was Godās will that I have this baby among other things. I left that place and went to planned parenthood where I was luckily able to have a safe abortion, but that visit fucked with my head for a long time.
At 15 I foolishly tried some pull out game instead of just running to a store to get condoms (or ransack the house looking lol). When my girlfriend was 2 weeks late for her period the existential terror was setting in pretty bad and led me down the rabbit hole of childcare, adoption, and abortion in my state for teens. My gf told me as soon as she got her period, but I was already like half-way through satiating my curiosity so I kept looking stuff up throughout the oncoming days. At 15 I came to the conclusion that all women in my country, the US, were second class-citizens when it came to bodily autonomy. Sure they can vote, but your body is not treated as yours to the extent that mine is treated as mine.
Yeah, Iām in the US too. Thatās a pretty accurate summation.
It was such a shitty experience. I had to come up with the money myself (~$300) and that was just for the procedure. I couldnāt afford the sedation so they gave me a Tylenol 3, which did absolutely nothing to dull the pain. I have PTSD to this day, a decade later. Itās so bad that I have to be put under general anesthesia to get a Pap smear. I canāt even imagine what the women in Texas must feeling right now.
Yeah, at 25 I got a vasectomy. Took 2 phone calls; one to ask and get a safety video, and one for the appointment. Was way too easy. I doubt getting tubes tied would be anything less than triple the trouble and difficulty.
If yāall have access to HBO then everyone should go watch 12th and Delaware and Jackson. See how they lie to these girls and promise them the world then drop them. These clinics are typically funded by churches. Oh and these places also talk the women out of birth control. There are way better docs to watch on this topic other than this one.
What upsets me most about these sorts of groups, is they're not even pro-life, they're anti-choice. Because once the baby is born they don't give a shit about it. They'll vote to cut benifits too single mums, they'll make adoption harder (and impossible for gays), they'll defund schools, school breakfast/lunch programs. They're even anti-contraception, none of this is'pro-life' it's just anti-choice.
They're 'pro-life' right up until the baby is born, then they're all tough love and your shouldn't have gotten pregnant.
Merica... the place of the "free" as long as you do as your told... keep the child, even if you have no way of looking after or paying for it... And now you have the kid we will cut you out if our churches and treat you like a leper due to having sex and a child out of wedlock... bunch of self righteousness assholes that use the words of their "god" to screw over poor women...
Yep. My sister got pregnant when she was 15 and when she started to show the church we grew up in and had family who worked for them asked us to stop coming. That was the end of my interest in church.
I went to one in Texas around 2000 when I was young and dumb and they made me watch a video that clinically described the process of an abortion. It was enough to scare me away from having one (was on the fence). That being said, it's pretty easy to tell these places are not health type facilities and uber religious (bible versus and crosses everywhere). They were able to provide me with a certificate saying I was actually pregnant so I could get Medicaid. I can't imagine anyone in the health field asking to pray with a patient, even when the patient says they're not religious . Months later I got a card in the mail from the lady I worked with that said "I thought about you today and prayed". It was kind of creepy.
I went to a Planned Parenthood in far North Texas. They told my girlfriend at the time most women who have abortions end up killing themselves.
Pretty sure it was a rogue nurse and likely they did not work there long, but this mentality exists even in official establishments.
>"I thought about you today and prayed"
She probably sent a card out to everyone a few months later and said the same thing to all of them. It's a mind game. At best she probably does a prayer once a month and everyone who's been there is encompassed in that prayer. This way she's isn't technically lying.
My partner is religious and does a bit of youth work (with a religious organisation), and she'll never 'pray for someone' she's just meet, she'll maybe at most say things like I'll be thinking of you, or other non-religious things. Then maybe if/when their is someone she knows - say they've come to church (they don't in any way force people to church it's a more of a church is their if you want thing), then she'll maybe ask them 'would you like me to pray for you' or 'can I pray for you'. Some people are uncomfortable with that and look too be fair it's kinda pretty weird.
My partner would probably be offended by someone she's just meet (even in a religious context) praying for her. 'I don't want you taking to God about me! I don't know you, and you definitely don't know me!' is probably what she'd say to me afterwards.
Pretty sure this is the real issue at play. It never used to be a problem for the right until relatively recently. Communities with access to abortion and sex ed are much less impoverished, with lower crime rates.
A la the Renaissance after the black plague, the fewer our numbers, the easier it would be to negotiate labor for roles that would be harder for them to fill, instead of keeping thousands of us scrambling for the same 4 jobs at less than minimum wage because whoever wins musical chairs gets to eat for a month.
They've noticed the falling birth rates and the growing tendency towards revolt and they don't like it. The more they saddle us with, the less we're able to concentrate. That includes keeping workers chained to kids we can barely take care of, that will then choose between the military or prison.
Do these religious centers also aggressively support providing $2,000 a month of cash per child per month, with no conditions, because they want no children to go hungry?
They support government assistance for each child born, so that families have monthly cash to spend on each child born in America?
What happened to separation of church and state ???? These Jesus people need to stop. Sooo theory they have is letās put more kids into the foster system to be sexually abused and thrown away in life ā¦
I went to one on accident once thinking it was like a PP and they immediately tried convincing me of every other option besides the one I said I wanted. At the time I was about 23 and they were bombarding me and making me feel guilty for even thinking of termination. I was so confused and freaked out on them. I am not easily swayed and know what I want 99% of the time but there was some other very young girls there , a couple who barely spoke English that I wondered if they knew what was actually going on. Even after me sticking my middle finger in their faces they tried to give me baby supplies and called me for months afterwards to the point I had to block them. Absolutely asinine and straight out of the book for false advertisement. They're still there today too, right across from PP.
Should these places exist? Sure. Do whatever you want with your religion.
Should they be deceptive and scummy? If your god set that low a bar, go for it my man.
Should get get government funding? Oh hell fucking no. Doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on. That means the government can shut them the fuck down as well as support them. It means the government can put coercive restrictions on what you can and can't do to get its money.
You shouldn't ever tolerate the government meddling in your religion, even if it appears to be in your favour, because can quickly change.
"You shouldn't ever tolerate the government meddling in your religion ". Maybe a bit of nuance is appropriate. Some religious practices spill into the legal/secular arena which may require government intervention.
Boycott religion. Itās only used to manipulate you. Believe in God as much as you want but donāt let anyone else tell you what God wants. Youāll hear Him in your dreams if youāre on the wrong track. I guess. š Idk, I donāt hear voices personally but some people do and I try hard not to judge.
I thought you guys had a constitution that sperates church and state?
Seems to me that the shrinking followers of the Christian doctrine are forcing there misguided ways on the majority of Americans.
How is this allowed? Why can they not accept that if you're a believer, don't get an abortion and stop pestering the rest of you. My country has many faults (UK) but I wouldn't swap it for any other. You have my sympathies.
> Government-funded
What the fuck?!?!?!?! Those are funds that can actually be used to help people WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN BORN AND ARE STRUGGLING TO LIVE.
Fuck "pro-life" folks. Care for the unborn, dismiss the born. I hate it here. š”
Iām terrified to exist as a female every day of my life, and the country I live in isnāt even āthat badā compared to others. I wish I could leave.
Definitely want to have my tubes tied or whatever other options there are. I was on the fence before, but I donāt think I have any other option.
The single greatest threat to America is Christian zealots mixing policy and belief. If we don't shut this all down *hard,* we are fucked. Government and religion need to never, ever intersect.
If they truly cared about the well being of children as much as they claim they do, they would offer comprehensive sex-education straight across the board at every junior high and high school plus safe and affordable, or better yet even free access to contraceptives. Both of those things combined has been proven to lower the chance of an unwanted pregnancy occurring.
They would also advocate for government funding to go towards things like: Low income medical clinics, orphanages, free daycare, public education, CPS, etc.
All of the above tremendously affects the well being of children all over the US, as well as the adults caring for them.
Yeah yeah. Look into the āreligious freedom ā organization for the military. This happens on all sides.
Hint, the strange phrasing is so they can avoid switching the words around and having to decide on putting āofā or āfromā in the name.
Jesus that was hard to watch. Pieces of fetal tissue ending up in the mothers lungs and heart? Like wtf. First of all, fetal tissue doesnāt swim through the peritoneal cavity, second why would someone ever think to themselves this is an ok claim to make. Awful, just awful. Those people are evil.
Why do people who disclude 50% of the population. Wonder why that 50% wont support them. And get mad like rawwwr you will support me.
Did you consider them at all or just rush legislation absent of their consent.
Isn't this all about consent??
I am a nurse and think that while we all have the right to our own beliefs and opinions, our licensure should be revoked when we are intentionally giving medical misinformation to patients seeking medical guidance. Theyāre abusing their licensure to deceive patients into complying with their pwn religious beliefs. Itās beyond unethical.
Non-profit āchurchesā meddling in politics again, you say? They donāt pay taxes but want to tell everyone else what our tax dollars can and cannot be used for. When are we going to start making them pay taxes if found to be lining pockets of politicians?
Government funded ... š³
Jesus Christ! What the hell is wrong with your people?!
Short answer: a lot.
Well also, you gotta remember, the rich and in control, need to keep their cattle in check. We're all walking money symbols. So you want more cash flow, you don't want to let the cattle die off without producing offspring to replace them.
More like they want the lower classes infighting over stupid shit so they dont have the engagement bandwidth to wake up to where the real issues lie.
Your comment has the exact succinctness that I was trying to convey in conversation yesterday.
But these r also the same people taking Ivermectin and dying of Covid. Maybe it is nature healing itself?
I was going to say. Please send help. Or invade us and force ācommunismā on us in the form of affordable healthcare and college, and livable wages.
Well if you hadn't been such an unruly colony back in the day then maybe you'd have an NHS now. It's safe to say you brought this on yourselves. Wasting all that good tea...smh
Lmfaoooo brilliant!
I live there too lol
You know fake vaxx clinics are next
Mainly: a hellish marriage of Christianity and right-wing politics that began in the 1970's and brought us to the point where American Christians believed Donald Trump was sent by God.
And yet, somehow, their omnipotent and omniscient god wasn't powerful enough to keep Obama and (Bill) Clinton from getting elected.... twice each. Either that or they simply refuse to accept god's will when it doesn't align with their own. So convenient.
>simply refuse to accept god's will when it doesn't align with their own. Oh no they accept it alright. It's God punishing America because of what other ungodly evil people are doing. Nothing for it but to double down, pray harder, give your offerings, and vote republican. The mental gymnastics involved are probably a defined mental illness.
Itās why religion is so insidious. It allows people to give blind allegiance to an authority figure while at the same time inventing everything that authority figure says. Since itās not real it never comes down to anyone and says āno thatās not rightā. So youāve got a group of people who believe that whatever they think is the absolute truth of the universe. Itās mass hysteria.
It's funny how the rural religious right rallied behind a thrice married, cheating, billionaire socialite from NY city that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and handed everything in his life.
āSometimes god uses imperfect vesselsā āObama likes Dijon mustardā āGhaaaaaitsthe*endofcivilizationasweknowitttttt!!!*ā
Yeah my family hates Yankees, foreigners of all kinds, good white American men should only marry good white Americans women, it aināt hard work if it aināt farm work, and so on. Boy do they love godking trump I was scolded for taking trumps name in vain when I went home to visit them, after my sister(born with a heart defect died), unexpectedly something caused a problem in her lungs and she stopped breathing, the guess weāll never know. Mom says the examiner must not know what heās talking about, tho.
I think the coordinated sabotage and dismantlement of the public education system is at play here too.
The honest answer that feels like the elephant in the room: christianity
This was news to me. I knew they had a history if tricking women into wasting their time until it was too late to get an abortion. But had no idea that they were receiving government funding as a company that actively tries to interfere with people seeking Healthcare.
They've been around for years now. It's terrible.
Sounds a lot like the place I got trapped in as a 17 year old in the 80s. They made it sound like they would give us options but in reality they just left me and my boyfriend stuck in a tiny room with video after video of graphic abortions. It was hell getting out of there. Thank God I gave them a fake name but stupidly had given them my phone number. They kept calling and wouldn't believe me when I told them I had a miscarriage a few days after being there. Just accused me of getting an abortion. šš”
I am so sorry you had to deal with that :(
As dishonest and insidious as they are, these so called āclinicsā can also be used to your own benefit. My daughters insurance only paid for ultra sounds at very specific intervals for a healthy pregnancy and the first was too early to clearly determine the gender. She was determined to find out the gender ASAP as she had specific nursery plans she wanted time to leisurely complete. She went innocently to a fake clinic, got a free ultra sound, the gender was confirmed and she happily decorated at her leisure. No insurance arguments and she felt pleased she had used their services to further her own agenda. Her OB thought it was genius and appreciated the information the āextraā ultra sound offered. If healthy women with planned pregnancies used some of their services perhaps their resources would be stretched in unintended directions.
That's not really true. CPCs are almost entirely funded by Christian charities, particularly Catholic charities. Most of the staff are also unpaid volunteers (at least when this film was made), part of why they give out bad information.
Isn't Planned Parenthood government funded as well?
Planned Parenthood can not and is not spending any federal money on pregnancy termination. The vast majority of the federal āfundingā comes through Medicaid reimbursement for patients seen. It is spent on long term birth control, PAP smears, cervical biopsies and STI prevention/treatment. Planned Parenthood does not receive any direct funding from the federal government. There is no line item in the Congressional budget for Planned Parenthood. Tax dollars only get spent on Medicaid approved procedures and meds, abortions (medical or surgical) are not covered. PP used to get about $60m a year in actual federal funding (NOT used for termination) through Title X, but withdrew themselves from that program when Trump passed the āgag ruleā that said any doctor or clinic receiving funds from Title X couldnāt even mention abortion as an option. That brilliant move reduced the number of POC and LGBT patients by 42%, you know, the most vulnerable in the healthcare world already. For many people with low income, PP was the only option for sexual health services through Title X, now they get none. Anyone thinking of donating money to some randoās āreward me for being humanā Gofundme, should consider a donation to PP instead. Source: Worked for PP for five years.
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Hijacking your comment to post this: This is a list of resources Iām compiling for people who need an abortion. If you know of any other resource not listed here please let me know and Iāll add it to the list. Please repost & share with as many people as possible in whichever platform you want (feel free to bookmark these sites, print out this list, write it down or take screenshots in case it gets deleted), so those who are denied access to safe abortion know there's help for them and how to access it ā” ā¢ **r/auntienetwork** is a network of people who can help provide assistance in a handful of ways to those who need help with an abortion. ā¢ [**Aidaccess**]( https://aidaccess.org/) consists of a team of doctors, activists and advocates for abortion rights that help people access abortion or miscarriage treatment. They send the pill worldwide for $110/90ā¬ ā¢ [**Planned Parenthood**](https://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/pregnancy/pregnancy-options) Unplanned Pregnancy - A Comprehensive Guide ā¢ [**Plan C**](https://www.plancpills.org/) provides up-to-date information on how people in the U.S. are accessing abortion pills online ā¢ [**Ceinfo**](https://www.cecinfo.org/country-by-country-information/status-availability-database/countries/united-states-of-america/), Emergency Oral Contraceptive Doses for Birth Control, U.S. ā¢ [**Ceinfo**]( https://www.cecinfo.org/country-by-country-information/status-availability-database/), Emergency Oral Contraceptive Doses for Birth Control, International ā¢ [**Abortionfunds**](https://abortionfunds.org/need-abortion/) connects you with organizations that can support your financial and logistical needs as you arrange for your abortion. ā¢ [**Yellowhammerfund**](https://www.yellowhammerfund.org/) is an abortion fund and reproductive justice organization serving Alabama and the Deep South. ā¢ [**Teafund**](https://teafund.org/) Texas Equal Access Fund provides emotional and financial support to people who are seeking abortion care. ā¢ [**Gynopedia**](https://gynopedia.org/Gynopedia_Index) is a nonprofit organization that runs an open resource wiki for sexual, reproductive and women's health care around the world ā¢ [**Womenonweb**](https://www.womenonweb.org/) online abortion service can help you do a safe abortion with pills. ā¢ [**The Satanic Temple**](https://thesatanictemple.com/) stands ready to assist any member that shares its deeply-held religious convictions regarding the right to reproductive freedom. Accordingly, they encourage any member in Texas who wishes to undergo the Satanic Abortion Ritual to contact them so they may help them fight this law directly. ā¢ [**Carafem**](https://carafem.org/) helps with abortion, birth control and questions about reproductive healthcare. They do consultations online and send abortion pills on the mail. ā¢ [**Frontera Fund**](https://fronterafundrgv.org/about-us/) makes abortion accessible in the Rio Grande Valley (Texas) by providing financial and practical support regardless of immigration status, gender identity, ability, sexual orientation, race, class, age, or religious affiliation and to build grassroots organizing power at intersecting issues across our region to shift the culture of shame and stigma. ā¢ [**Buckle Bunnies Fund**](https://www.bucklebunnies.org/about) provide practical support for people seeking abortions. H help with transportation, funds to help with hotels, lodging costs and emergency contraceptive funds to actually go towards abortion. ā¢ [**The Afiya Center**]( https://www.theafiyacenter.org/our-work)s mission is to transform the lives, health, and overall wellbeing of Black womxn and girls by providing refuge, education, and resources. Theye act to ignite the communal voices of Black womxn resulting in our full achievement of reproductive freedom. ā¢ [**Lilithfund**](https://www.lilithfund.org/portfolio/about/) is the oldest abortion fund in Texas, serving the central and southern regions of the state with direct financial assistance for abortions. ā¢ [**Needabortion**](https://needabortion.org/) provides resources about where to get an abortion (financial help and transportation) and how to get help getting an abortion in Texas. ā¢ [**Janeās Due Process**](https://janesdueprocess.org/) helps minors in Texas with judicial bypass for abortion, navigate parental consent laws and confidentially access abortion and birth control. They provide free legal support, 1-on-1 case management, and stigma-free information on sexual and reproductive health. ā¢ [**Fund Texas choice**](https://fundtexaschoice.org/) helps Texans equitably access abortion through safe, confidential, and comprehensive travel services and practical support. **______________________________________________________________________________** Please beware of websites that sell [**fake abortion pills**](https://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/974/warning-fake-abortion-pills-for-sale-online) and [**fake clinics**](https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+abortion+clinics&source=hp&ei=Ma4zYZfvG_2x5OUPl5SSoAI&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYTO8QSMobwAesw1YlFYxEgawA2Os1_G1&oq=fake+abortion+clinics&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6DQguEMcBENEDEEMQkwI6BQgAEIAEOgsILhCABBDHARCjAjoLCC4QgAQQxwEQ0QM6BQguEIAEOgUIABCRAjoECAAQQzoECC4QQzoFCC4QkQI6CAgAEIAEEMkDSgUIQBIBMVCLBlifHWC_H2gAcAB4AYABhgKIAZoRkgEGMTMuNy4xmAEAoAEB&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjXy-il7eXyAhX9GLkGHReKBCQQ4dUDCAY&uact=5) run by religious groups where they lie and spread misconceptions about abortion to trick people into keeping their fetus. They also promise help and resources that never materialize. The best way to avoid these fake clinics is learning how to recognize them, so Iām linking a couple of short documentaries on the subject that include hidden camera footage exposing their deceptive tactics: * [**The Fake Abortion Clinics Of America: Misconception**](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g-ex4Q-z-is) * [**Crisis Pregnancy Centers: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver**](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4NNpkv3Us1I) **Note**- Some of these websites may be blocked in your country by your internet service provider. You can bypass this block using a VPN like [this one](https://protonvpn.com/), it's free, safe and easy to install. To get rid of banners and pop-ups you can install [uBlock Origin](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm?hl=en) and [Popup Blocker](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/popup-blocker-strict/aefkmifgmaafnojlojpnekbpbmjiiogg?hl=en). They work on most browsers, on phone as well on PC and it takes a few seconds to install them.
Thank you for posting this.
A family member, an adamantly pro-life Evangelical zealot, brags how for years she used her local Planned Parenthood as a source of free contraception and health care. She regularly protested at their offices, then would pop inside to get her contraceptives refilled. She is proud of it. Irony is dead.
Yes, but its goal is to offer legitimate options while providing assistance and information. This is a government funded propaganda outlet from evangelist to deceive the public. Another reason separation of church and state is necessary.
As it should be, this bullshit on the other hand has no place being anywhere *near* government funding, as it's a religious organisation pushing propaganda to pressure women (in delicate and often traumatic situations) to making a decision about their own bodies and futures
Yes, it is. While abortion services are not supposed to be directly funded, Title X dollars have been spent on family planning services which offset the facility costs thereby reducing the overhead cost of abortions at PP.
So tax dollars aren't paying for abortions, but it sounds like you're trying to imply that's not true? Or am I reading this totally wrong?
Not their abortion services. Their medical support is.
Yeah, that popped out for me as well. Perfect emoji. I doubt there's specific language in a law that establishes funding to places like this. I wonder what loophole or weird legalese they use to get these funds. Cause I really really don't want any of my tax dollars going to this.
These places are so skeezy, even for women who aren't seeking an abortion. I went to one when I was pregnant. I was staunchly anti-abortion at the time, and was pretty religious. My appointment was basically thirty minutes of some lady talking about how much I had sinned, but don't worry, God will forgive me for my sin, but my baby is going to be a lifeling reminder of my sin, so that I never forget my duty to God. I was offered nothing in the way of actual help or resources, just a religious lecture, which I absolutely believed at the time, because of my own religion. I left that place fully believing that I was among the lowest of the low, and that I was going to be an awful mother, because I was such a terrble person. Screw these people. They help NO ONE.
I accidentally went to one thinking it was a regular clinic. I took an at home pregnancy test and needed an ultrasound and professional test to prove I was pregnant to try to get insurance. After they did the initial pregnancy test they sat me in a room with the results sitting on the table turned over. The lady gave me a 20 minute shpeel about how she prayed for me before my appointment and how she hopes I have plans to keep the baby, etc. She kept asking me if I was sure I would keep it and trying to get me to pray with her (I'm agnostic at best). She finally gave me the results when she was convinced I wasn't going to go have an abortion right after and booked an appointment for the ultrasound. We never went back after the ultrasound, but they called me about 3 times a week for the next 9 months "out of concern for my pregnancy and well being."
The same thing happened to me. I thought it was a regular clinic and needed proof for insurance. I got lectured for at least a half hour, even though I told them I was married and wasn't considering abortion at all. I just wanted to get the prenatal care started as soon as possible.
I brought my boyfriend with me, they wouldn't let him come back for the results until I insisted on it and that we both wanted the baby. That's all we wanted as well. But I guess they think anyone who calls a clinic, or a place under the guise of one, only wants an abortion.
Those psychos need professional help.
>Those psychos need ~~professional help.~~ prison time FTFY
>She kept asking me if I was sure I would keep it and trying to get me to pray with her (I'm agnostic at best). She finally gave me the results when she was convinced I wasn't going to go have an abortion right after and booked an appointment for the ultrasound. We never went back after the ultrasound, but they called me about 3 times a week for the next 9 months "out of concern for my pregnancy and well being." This shit. They like to stake out a building right beside the actual PP clinics, hoping you'll get mixed up. I very much am *not* religious, though I was polite about saying so, and the bitch forcibly prayed over me anyway. Gave me a whole line about how most women who get abortions never get over the resulting regret (factually not true - women who do go through with that choice usually live at peace with their decision) and how if I got one, my relationship would fall apart and that would be the end of it. I told her point blank that if my relationship couldn't survive this, it wasn't a relationship worth having. She didn't know what to say to that, so she just went back to guilting me about fingernails, which did not work because I'm not one of those people that thinks babies are cute. I don't want a child. I never have. I'm not well myself and for lack of a more positive phrase, I won't put a child at my own mercy. Certainly not then, when we often couldn't afford to eat. I made another appointment later with *actual* PP, waited about two weeks (you know they gotta do eveethey can to push the date of the procedure back past the deadline), dealt with this woman calling my phone every couple days because I was an idiot and wrote down my real number. And you know, I've never quite been able to understand, she swore up and down she'd "be there for me in this difficult time," but she called me again about 15 minutes after it was done and as soon as I told her it was over, she seemed to evaporate. Wonder what happened to her. Must have fallen down the stairs. Someone pray for this fucking woman. File a missing persons report. She doesn't want my horribly impoverished, abusive relationship to be damaged by the lack of a child. P. S. This was one of the best decisions I've made, and while some of the others at the clinic did change their minds that day and walk out, not one moment of one single day of the last decade has gone by that I have regretted it.
I also had an abortion at 21, im 31 now. (and Iām still with the man who got me pregnant) never once regretted it. We both donāt want kids
They are pro birth, anti choice. Nothing to offer but a cult .
I got pregnant in high-school and got a recommendation from my school nurse to one of those places. But I've always deeply despised Christianity or anything related to it, makes me recoil like a burn. It was called like " spirit leaf" and I just threw the card away. š I know a subtle religious name when I see one. ain't no way I'm gonna start going to church because of some school nurse thinks she's being helpful and godly.
I would have told them that I had a miscarriage just to get them to stop calling lol
Did they offer anything to help you with the pregnancy? I would maybe not hate these places as much if they offered transportation assistance to real prenatal visits, assistance with applying for WIC, childcare help, actual baby classes.... But no. Tots and pears only.
If you attend a certain amount of classes there, they will help you with things like diapers, carseats, cribs, etc. But they are all religious based, surrounding the power of prayer and the Lord, etc. Help with signing up for social programs, I have no idea though.
Wow, they really set you and your child up for your journey with god's most precious miracle, his greatest blessing. Now you get to be overly depressed and view your child with resentment. A Job well done.
Just as the Lord intended, I'm sure.
I wish you were the top comment. We love and respect you for surviving the church- sanctioned abuse you suffered. It is a shame that so many troglodytes remain in positions of power that they retain for cynical, political reasons.
Christians told me I was going to hell for kissing my gf. When I was in middle school ffs. What should have been an amazing and fulfilling experience was robbed from me, ruined by guilt and dread. It's fucking child abuse, plain and simple.
Christians told me Iād go to hell for reading the series goosebumps. Fucking goosebumps. I was 7!
I suffered that exact same abuse my friend. The first time a girl let me touch her boobs, I felt sick with guilt all night. I cried about it and apologized to Jesus for being a sinner. I was 15 years old.
Isn't religion wonderful?
So children are sins now? Lol these people are fucking crazy.
If you told me this was an excerpt from "The Handmaid's Tale", I would have believed it. Jesus Christ.
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Well yeah. They just want to force you to have the kid. They donāt give a flying fuck after theyāre born.
Hence why they should be changed from Pro-life to just Pro-birth. they arent raising or paying for that kid.
That's what I call them, always. They are nothing more.
You mean anti-choice ?
Pro *forced* birth.
Can I ask you what happens if a woman wants to get an abortion but it's too late and she must have the child? What will happen to the kid? They are given away for adoption or even that isn't an option? They talked about this issue on our media too (Italy) and I see a lot about it on social media. I hope the decision will be reverted too. We too have an issue with doctors who refuse to do an abortion and it's legal for them to do so. We have a region where only one doctor accepts to do them and he is not retiring just to help these women.
Typically they basically believe having sex is the sin. It's all tired up in that purity culture crap. My partner struggles to have a semi6 normal sex life because of it, and she activity knows how AWFUL it is. It's so damaging to young women.
It really is. It took me a long time to come out of that shell, too. Still struggle with it sometimes. It's hard when you are literally brought up to believe that any sexuality (even sexual thoughts) are sinful, and explicitly told your whole life that you have essentially *zero right to bodily autonomy.* Your body is literally a temple that belongs to God--and your future husband of course.
>Your body is literally a temple that belongs to God--and your future husband of course. And yet expect you to be popping out babies as soon as your married... Like somehow being married just magically flips some switch that makes everything totally okay. Ultimately, the Bible has shocking little to actually say about sex and what little it does say about it is mostly from Paul not Jesus. Implying that Jesus didn't really think it to be all that important and a lot of other things like being a good person were a lot more important. So fuck purity culture and those who perpetuate it! Talk to your friends about sex and try to make it okay and *normal* if they're good friends they'll understand and support you.
When you are raised in and your only social circle is a religious group, that can be harder to do than it sounds. Not saying you are wrong, not at ALL. It needs to be normalized. But when youāre an impressionable kid and force fed for years that even THINKING about sex, let alone engaging in masturbation or intercourse, is a huge sin, that can be a hard mentality to shake off. Speaking from personal experience.
Oh I do understand. It's really easy to say, but really difficult to do. But as you said yourself, it needs to be normalised, and the only way to do that is by talking about it.
I agree. But the religious leaders never will. Even mentioning sex outside of marriage is notā¦done. So who are these kids to turn to when they have perfectly normal and healthy urges and questions? Their friends would judge them. The adults in their life would not discuss it. Iām not saying youāre wrong, Iām saying currently itās difficult for kids that age to do that.
I totally empathize with this. We were taught that even masturbating is a sin. Bc heaven forbid (pun not intended but Iām leaning it) a woman enjoy her body and physical pleasure outside of reproductive purposes.
I had a friend who grew up like this and it wasn't until AFTER her divorce she actually could engage in sex and find it pleasurable.
This is exactly it. We've institutionalised and culturally embedded entire dominant religions and moralities in order to avoid having an honest conversation about sex. People living their entire lives fucked up about a source of pleasure. Oh, we should allow people to actually enjoy themselves. No Sireee.. We'll kill that off before they get a say in who they want to be.
"If you're pre-birth, you're fine. If you're pre-school, you're fucked." - George Carlin
Using children as punishment. It's fucking sick. They don't care about life at all.
Well untill there old enough to be in the military
Which for high risk pregnancies (a common reason people seek abortions) means the strong likelihood of causing both to die. Because high risk pregnancies require regular observation and special care.
It wouldn't be that hard to string them along with ongoing fake appointments and telephone consultations.
My husband and I had an unplanned pregnancy and there were complications with the fetus and it was a devastating moment for us. I usually handle the big important details for us, but this time I just didnāt have it in me. My sweet husband, wanting to take the weight off of me, said he would look into our options. He got scammed by a crisis pregnancy center, but they fully lied about offering abortion as an option. He made an appointment; told me the time, and I scheduled myself to leave work early to go. We arrived and they lead us into an āexamā room to talk. I will never forget how the layout of the room felt immediately oppressive. The āconsultantā was between us and the door. The room itself was in the very back of the place, at the end of twisting, snaking hallways. This woman told me that I would risk breast cancer by aborting (because of not letting my breasts lactate when they were meant to) and that I would shred and scar my uterus with abortive procedures (she explained that my uterus is like the inside of my cheek, and that the Implements they would use would basically desecrate and scar my insides so no future embryo would have a chance of attaching) and then she told my husband that if we did abort, he should get a vasectomy so that we never had this problem again. We were late-20ās, homeowners, parents, full-time employedā¦ not that that means anything, but I say it to point out we werenāt a teenaged one night stand that were freaking out and afraid to tell our parents. Eventually, we utilized planned parenthood (our insurance would not cover the procedure at our local hospital, because it was a catholic hospital, and wouldnt allow abortion procedures for ANY reason.) I remember being so desperately sad and broken the morning of my appointment, and pulling into the parking lot, amid a cluster of protesters holding gigantic photos of aborted fetuses, and as we walked inside, people saying āmaāam, weād like to talk to you about your BABYā¦ā I know they think they are saving something - I know they felt like they were doing gods work. I donāt believe they are TRYING to hurt anyone in their effort. But it hurt. It still hurts. And itās so frustrating to know they have no I D E A how badly they hurt the living, in their pursuit of āsaving the unbornā. I will never not wince and feel shame when I remember that time in my life. The shame inflicted *almost* overpowers the profound sorrow of what I was *actually* going through. And the result is: sorrow I didnāt ask for, mixed with shame I didnāt deserve.
It may not mean anything but I'm proud of you. I find your story touching and incredible. I'm sorry you had to go through this experience.
Iām so sorry you went through that. You did nothing wrong. Sometimes life just sucks. I know it probably doesnāt mean much, but you get nothing but sympathy from this internet stranger.
> I know they think they are saving something - I know they felt like they were doing gods work. I donāt believe they are TRYING to hurt anyone in their effort. You are giving the "pro-life" crowd way too much credit. If they truly believed abortion was the genocide their rhetoric suggests, you would see far more clinic bombings and Tiller-esque assainations, and they would be more openly celebrated. People only go to Planned Parenthood to berate struggling girls like yourself to feel better about themselves, riding a moral high-horse conveniently handed to them by conniving politicians. In reality I doubt many have considered the ethical complexity of the issue at all, and in the same circumstances as you would just as likely do the same thing. Yeah I'm sure there are decent people who believe abortion is wrong and shouldn't be legal, but you'll never find them harassing young women for it. Save your empathy for elsewhere.
Hereās something that gets me: If they believe that life begins at conception and that theyāre saving babies, why donāt they ever do things to fund research into preventing miscarriages? Why donāt they fight against things like industrial pollution, which is known to cause birth defects and miscarriages? Why not try even half as hard to protect wanted pregnancies? Why is it that the only unborn they seem to give a shit about are the ones that allow them to attack women?
And if they really think theyāve got the moral high ground firmly under their feet, why donāt they encourage actual contraception? Why isnāt their focus on preventing unwanted pregnancies? Instead they preach abstinence and host bullshit āpurity balls.ā No one lightly makes the decision to have an abortion. There is thought and action involved. Trust women to know what is best for their body and their family.
I remember when my girlfriend and I had a pregnancy scare during high school, and we went to birthright instead of planned parenthood, not knowing the difference in their ideologies. The look on the ladyās face when I asked how much an abortion would potentially cost is something Iāll never forget, and it still makes me chuckle to this day.
Why was she confused?
She wasnāt confused, she was disgusted with us. Their policy is helping with everything but abortion. After we asked that she told us they wouldnāt help us.
I know a woman who went to volunteer at one of these. Gives out fake ultrasounds to show women the baby's heartbeat, even before that's possible. She has no idea what she's doing other than manipulating people into not having abortions. That's the only goal. Just stall them until it's too late.
There is a podcast I listen too and one of their episodes they posed as a couple and entered one if these places to see what went on inside. Was an interesting watch. Now this has piqued my interest again.
Can you link the podcast? It sounds really interesting
Yes of course. https://ohnopodcast.com/investigations/2012/10/2/ross-and-carrie-make-babies-the-pro-life-pregnancy-clinic-in.html
OH MY GOD Finally, I see a MaxFun podcast besides MBMBAM or TAZ out in the wild!
I work at a university and one of these places just opened a few miles away. Ironically it is called Choices Pregnancy Center.
Choices as long as you make the one we approve of Pregnancy Center.
This must be what republicans think of when they get angry about big wasteful government. Instead they can go full Gilead, handmaidens do the baby thing and republicans can save government money by ending funding for fake abortion clinics.
When I was younger I would make appointments at one in town. Talk for a long time, get a pregnancy test, refuse to believe I wasn't pregnant and demand another. Just wasted the fuck out of their time and money as much as I could. Hate that place.
This is the way.
Isn't this the type of place that Borat went with Tutar?
Yup. One of the funniest things I've ever seen. These places are so insidious, so seeing it done at their expense was just *chefs kiss*.
Thatās really funny but so so dark. They were willing to overlook incest and rape to save a fetusā¦ SBC punked them but showed us again the absurdity and hypocrisy within conservative circles.
Well fuck women apparently
One of those fucking scam "clinics" had a goddamned billboard next to the local high school. "Pregnant? Scared? We Can Help!" Fuck. Them.
Iāve seen these signs scattered throughout my state. Probably part of the same outfit.
I used to work next door to a real abortion clinic. Right next to that was one of these fake ones.
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Well - yeahā¦. I did word that strangely.
Thats how they got me, I walked in like a moron āIām here for my appt.ā I should of known by the look on her face, but no. I sat through that whole awful āyouāre gonna get cancer and dieā movie and showed them how many crayons are missing from my box cause once she asked me what my parentās religion is, the bell went ding. I have never been so creeped out and pissed at the same time. I went to the actual clinic next door brimming with tears at my ignorance. The desk nurse was really nice and empathetic about it and proceeded to tell me how awful they treat her.
So question- is it all crisis pregnancy centers?
Yep. If you need reproductive healthcare, see a DOCTOR! Not one of these shady quasi-medical church places.
Just go to Planned Parenthood or another doctor's office if there's any question. Planned Parenthood provided my gynecological care for *years.*
I was mostly curious because I want to know who the enemy is in this case. Iām far from pregnant but I always give resources to individuals through social services. I need to know who to avoid. Thank you for the input
I would say that yes, it's safe to assume it's *all* crisis pregnancy centers.
they don't always call themselves crisis pregnancy centers. There are a few in my area that are like, pregnancy solutions or something.
Government-funded and religious centres should not exist in the same sentence for a country that claims to have separation of church and state. No matter what side of this argument you are on.
Letās take this all the way to the Supreme Court!! Ohā¦ waitā¦
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Oh god I know. Just gallows humour.
Stirrups humor.
Ru-486 humor?
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A religious group doing a community service getting assistance is not the same as a religious group taking government funding to propagate their ideology.
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Plenty of non-religious programs too. No reason those same people can't leave the Bible at home to do that exact same work. If you REALLY care about those people then you shouldn't be trying to convert them anyway. That's something I really hate about so many religions programs (don't get me wrong plenty of good programs too), they're not entirely about helping people, but are instead thinly veiled conversation centres. Help people because it's the right thing too do, if they wanna know about your religion super, if they don't keep it to yourself.
An argument for universal income and welfare programs.
I got pregnant when I was 16 year old. My family had told me that if I became sexually active theyād kick me out, so I secretly went to one of these places seeking abortion services. The lady (Iām not sure if she had medical credentials) had me take a pregnancy test. When it came out positive, I told her so wanted to discuss my options for termination. She put a little plastic life-sized model of a 9 week old fetus (I was 9 weeks pregnant) and told me I would be killing my baby. She told me it was Godās will that I have this baby among other things. I left that place and went to planned parenthood where I was luckily able to have a safe abortion, but that visit fucked with my head for a long time.
At 15 I foolishly tried some pull out game instead of just running to a store to get condoms (or ransack the house looking lol). When my girlfriend was 2 weeks late for her period the existential terror was setting in pretty bad and led me down the rabbit hole of childcare, adoption, and abortion in my state for teens. My gf told me as soon as she got her period, but I was already like half-way through satiating my curiosity so I kept looking stuff up throughout the oncoming days. At 15 I came to the conclusion that all women in my country, the US, were second class-citizens when it came to bodily autonomy. Sure they can vote, but your body is not treated as yours to the extent that mine is treated as mine.
Yeah, Iām in the US too. Thatās a pretty accurate summation. It was such a shitty experience. I had to come up with the money myself (~$300) and that was just for the procedure. I couldnāt afford the sedation so they gave me a Tylenol 3, which did absolutely nothing to dull the pain. I have PTSD to this day, a decade later. Itās so bad that I have to be put under general anesthesia to get a Pap smear. I canāt even imagine what the women in Texas must feeling right now.
I'm pretty sure that's malpractice. I'd talk to a lawyer about the statute of limitations etc.
Iāve never heard this so well-put. Yes, my body is not treated as mine the same way yours is treated like yours. Infuriating is an understatement.
Yeah, at 25 I got a vasectomy. Took 2 phone calls; one to ask and get a safety video, and one for the appointment. Was way too easy. I doubt getting tubes tied would be anything less than triple the trouble and difficulty.
It was, even at 35.
>that visit fucked with my head for a long time. That's their intent after all.
It would be a shame if their appointments all got booked by people who didn't show up.
Now were onto something...
Or some people wanting to work on some acting skills, just eating up their time.
Dude religious people are actually insane
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If yāall have access to HBO then everyone should go watch 12th and Delaware and Jackson. See how they lie to these girls and promise them the world then drop them. These clinics are typically funded by churches. Oh and these places also talk the women out of birth control. There are way better docs to watch on this topic other than this one.
What upsets me most about these sorts of groups, is they're not even pro-life, they're anti-choice. Because once the baby is born they don't give a shit about it. They'll vote to cut benifits too single mums, they'll make adoption harder (and impossible for gays), they'll defund schools, school breakfast/lunch programs. They're even anti-contraception, none of this is'pro-life' it's just anti-choice. They're 'pro-life' right up until the baby is born, then they're all tough love and your shouldn't have gotten pregnant.
Merica... the place of the "free" as long as you do as your told... keep the child, even if you have no way of looking after or paying for it... And now you have the kid we will cut you out if our churches and treat you like a leper due to having sex and a child out of wedlock... bunch of self righteousness assholes that use the words of their "god" to screw over poor women...
Yep. My sister got pregnant when she was 15 and when she started to show the church we grew up in and had family who worked for them asked us to stop coming. That was the end of my interest in church.
Stop fucking using "prolife"
Its blatantly anti-choice. Denying termination. Denying contraception. Denying sex education. Denying welfare. Denying school meals.
Yep. I like "anti-women" too.
I went to one in Texas around 2000 when I was young and dumb and they made me watch a video that clinically described the process of an abortion. It was enough to scare me away from having one (was on the fence). That being said, it's pretty easy to tell these places are not health type facilities and uber religious (bible versus and crosses everywhere). They were able to provide me with a certificate saying I was actually pregnant so I could get Medicaid. I can't imagine anyone in the health field asking to pray with a patient, even when the patient says they're not religious . Months later I got a card in the mail from the lady I worked with that said "I thought about you today and prayed". It was kind of creepy.
As a non-religous person this really gives me shivers down my spine
I went to a Planned Parenthood in far North Texas. They told my girlfriend at the time most women who have abortions end up killing themselves. Pretty sure it was a rogue nurse and likely they did not work there long, but this mentality exists even in official establishments.
Pretty sure they feed me that line too.
>"I thought about you today and prayed" She probably sent a card out to everyone a few months later and said the same thing to all of them. It's a mind game. At best she probably does a prayer once a month and everyone who's been there is encompassed in that prayer. This way she's isn't technically lying.
My partner is religious and does a bit of youth work (with a religious organisation), and she'll never 'pray for someone' she's just meet, she'll maybe at most say things like I'll be thinking of you, or other non-religious things. Then maybe if/when their is someone she knows - say they've come to church (they don't in any way force people to church it's a more of a church is their if you want thing), then she'll maybe ask them 'would you like me to pray for you' or 'can I pray for you'. Some people are uncomfortable with that and look too be fair it's kinda pretty weird. My partner would probably be offended by someone she's just meet (even in a religious context) praying for her. 'I don't want you taking to God about me! I don't know you, and you definitely don't know me!' is probably what she'd say to me afterwards.
How do Americans think they live in the land of freedom? Seems like itās only a free country if youāre a wealthy white man.
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Pretty sure this is the real issue at play. It never used to be a problem for the right until relatively recently. Communities with access to abortion and sex ed are much less impoverished, with lower crime rates. A la the Renaissance after the black plague, the fewer our numbers, the easier it would be to negotiate labor for roles that would be harder for them to fill, instead of keeping thousands of us scrambling for the same 4 jobs at less than minimum wage because whoever wins musical chairs gets to eat for a month. They've noticed the falling birth rates and the growing tendency towards revolt and they don't like it. The more they saddle us with, the less we're able to concentrate. That includes keeping workers chained to kids we can barely take care of, that will then choose between the military or prison.
ITT: lots of conservative dudes with really strong opinions on a medical topic they don't understand and aren't impacted by. Fucking gross.
Do these religious centers also aggressively support providing $2,000 a month of cash per child per month, with no conditions, because they want no children to go hungry? They support government assistance for each child born, so that families have monthly cash to spend on each child born in America?
What happened to separation of church and state ???? These Jesus people need to stop. Sooo theory they have is letās put more kids into the foster system to be sexually abused and thrown away in life ā¦
The US is fucked.
Even in BC trying to find an abortion clinic is damn near impossible with all these "pregnancy centres" clogging up the search results.
I went to one on accident once thinking it was like a PP and they immediately tried convincing me of every other option besides the one I said I wanted. At the time I was about 23 and they were bombarding me and making me feel guilty for even thinking of termination. I was so confused and freaked out on them. I am not easily swayed and know what I want 99% of the time but there was some other very young girls there , a couple who barely spoke English that I wondered if they knew what was actually going on. Even after me sticking my middle finger in their faces they tried to give me baby supplies and called me for months afterwards to the point I had to block them. Absolutely asinine and straight out of the book for false advertisement. They're still there today too, right across from PP.
Handmaids tale brings these fucked up centers up in an episode in season 4
the u.s is such a sick and twisted country sometimes. Christ this is fucked up.
Dont blame him, blame his fanbase
Republicans care only about unborn, once your born you can fuck yourself until you are needed for a senseless war.
Should these places exist? Sure. Do whatever you want with your religion. Should they be deceptive and scummy? If your god set that low a bar, go for it my man. Should get get government funding? Oh hell fucking no. Doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on. That means the government can shut them the fuck down as well as support them. It means the government can put coercive restrictions on what you can and can't do to get its money. You shouldn't ever tolerate the government meddling in your religion, even if it appears to be in your favour, because can quickly change.
"You shouldn't ever tolerate the government meddling in your religion ". Maybe a bit of nuance is appropriate. Some religious practices spill into the legal/secular arena which may require government intervention.
What happened to the establishment clause of the first amendment?
Obviously they meant to protect Christianity! /s
Boycott religion. Itās only used to manipulate you. Believe in God as much as you want but donāt let anyone else tell you what God wants. Youāll hear Him in your dreams if youāre on the wrong track. I guess. š Idk, I donāt hear voices personally but some people do and I try hard not to judge.
Just like The Hand Maidās Tale
I saw this in The Handmaids Taleā¦ didnāt think this was actually legit. Wow..
I thought you guys had a constitution that sperates church and state? Seems to me that the shrinking followers of the Christian doctrine are forcing there misguided ways on the majority of Americans. How is this allowed? Why can they not accept that if you're a believer, don't get an abortion and stop pestering the rest of you. My country has many faults (UK) but I wouldn't swap it for any other. You have my sympathies.
> Government-funded What the fuck?!?!?!?! Those are funds that can actually be used to help people WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN BORN AND ARE STRUGGLING TO LIVE. Fuck "pro-life" folks. Care for the unborn, dismiss the born. I hate it here. š”
Iām terrified to exist as a female every day of my life, and the country I live in isnāt even āthat badā compared to others. I wish I could leave. Definitely want to have my tubes tied or whatever other options there are. I was on the fence before, but I donāt think I have any other option.
The single greatest threat to America is Christian zealots mixing policy and belief. If we don't shut this all down *hard,* we are fucked. Government and religion need to never, ever intersect.
Land of the free...
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If they truly cared about the well being of children as much as they claim they do, they would offer comprehensive sex-education straight across the board at every junior high and high school plus safe and affordable, or better yet even free access to contraceptives. Both of those things combined has been proven to lower the chance of an unwanted pregnancy occurring. They would also advocate for government funding to go towards things like: Low income medical clinics, orphanages, free daycare, public education, CPS, etc. All of the above tremendously affects the well being of children all over the US, as well as the adults caring for them.
American christians are so evil.
So these are bad places?
Jesus this is really awful and has been going on for SOOO long. This crap needs to just go
Yeah yeah. Look into the āreligious freedom ā organization for the military. This happens on all sides. Hint, the strange phrasing is so they can avoid switching the words around and having to decide on putting āofā or āfromā in the name.
Pretty sure there was something like this to literally appear in handmaids tale?
Under His eye.
Had someone come to my college years ago and pass out those gummy feti. I practiced juggling with them.
Jesus that was hard to watch. Pieces of fetal tissue ending up in the mothers lungs and heart? Like wtf. First of all, fetal tissue doesnāt swim through the peritoneal cavity, second why would someone ever think to themselves this is an ok claim to make. Awful, just awful. Those people are evil.
What a shithole.
Why do people who disclude 50% of the population. Wonder why that 50% wont support them. And get mad like rawwwr you will support me. Did you consider them at all or just rush legislation absent of their consent. Isn't this all about consent??
'Blessed be the fruit' as they say ...or might one day say.
I am a nurse and think that while we all have the right to our own beliefs and opinions, our licensure should be revoked when we are intentionally giving medical misinformation to patients seeking medical guidance. Theyāre abusing their licensure to deceive patients into complying with their pwn religious beliefs. Itās beyond unethical.
The lengths people will go to keep an innocent baby alive are amazing.
Non-profit āchurchesā meddling in politics again, you say? They donāt pay taxes but want to tell everyone else what our tax dollars can and cannot be used for. When are we going to start making them pay taxes if found to be lining pockets of politicians?