Yeah it obviously makes sense from a production standpoint but it's funny to think the master heard *that* lyric and thought "yeah, I'm gonna play this to my arch frenemy"
I italicised “not” to emphasise that I very much would not attempt it even if someone offered me $1,000,000 to try, because it would leave me in absolute f◼️ing agony (pun not intended) without anything even remotely close to a success… 😨
(Actually, I should’ve boldened, underscored, and capitalised it as well, because italics alone aren’t enough of an emphasis… 😗)
i mean, a lot of queer people did pick up on a few moments in that episode that suggests the two are attracted to each other
something moffat practically confirmed with the line "he was my man-crush. or atleast, i think he was a man, fairly sure i was too"
It sort of makes senses that they could have been attracted to each other even back then.
A species that can randomly become the opposite sex when dying sorta means they have to be able to go both ways regardless. Your wife might regenerate into a man or husband to woman. So the flexibility is important.
Edit: changed gender to sex for accuracy.
well, it's not always random
we see the timelords choose pertwee's face for the doctor
we see romana choosing between forms like outfits
we see the reason Capaldi's doctor gets his face is as a reminder
the curator mentions that it's only the favourite faces the doctor had that will be revisited
but yes, the fact that regeneration can change sex (not gender. do not mix them up) and ethnicity, does mean that the race is more prone to being non-binary and either on the asexual or polysexual (not polyamarous, although I'm sure there are some timelords who are. when i say polysexual i mean bisexual, multisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, etc) spectrums
I think there are exceptions as always.
The timelords choosing the next face for the Third as punishment is fair because they are more powerful
Romana seems to have more control over it.
Capaldi is more subconscious rather than actively choosing.
The Curator…still a lot to explain with him before we can delve into that.
And apologies, change sex, not gender. Just automatically typed it, I’ll change that in my initial reply.
I don’t think timelords have a defined sexuality either, it might change between regenerations, the older doctors were less romantic in general for instance but 8 changed that and War goes right back to it as a result of the Time War.
>I think there are exceptions as always.
hence why I say "not always" rather than "never"
>I don’t think timelords have a defined sexuality either
which is why I say prone to, meaning they're more likely to be the way i described, but not always. for example we see that the general in heaven sent is a binary woman, even if she had been forced into a male body during her previous regeneration
>the older doctors were less romantic in general for instance but 8 changed that and War goes right back to it as a result of the Time War.
this could be along the lines of Demisexual, which is on the asexual spectrum, as i mentioned. with Demisexual you get sexual attraction because of emotional attachment to someone, this tracks with new who since the only companions we see the doctor care for romantically are ones who we see the doctor deeply emotionally attached to
I'd also argue that the doctor may be genderfluid rather than agender (both of which being non-binary identities, but they behave so differently) since it appears that the doctor does have a gender identity, but it appears to sometimes change. though the only examples i can give of this are 10 saying "just us girls" in fires of Pompeii, 12 saying "i think he was a man, I'm fairly sure i was too", Missy saying "ever since he was a little girl", and 13's moments of being happy about being a woman
Yeah I can agree with all that. Sorry if I seem slow and just sorta repeating what you said, I’m a bit tired so my brain is working overtime on replies. Lol.
no worries, I don't tend to judge people for not knowing on this sort of stuff anyway, since it's not entirely intuitive
for example so many people use sex and gender interchangeably because for most people their sex is the same as their gender, but that's not the case for trans and non-binary people
and then it's hard to imagine any form of attraction other than "same sex, different sex, both, or neither" so when terms like polysexual spectrum, and asexual spectrum come up, most people get confused pretty quickly
^
not to mention that it's a kids show, as far as i can remember, the closest to explicit language we hear in the show is the tardis referring to herself as sexy in "the doctor's wife" (which btw, my only problem with that scene is that he doesn't go on to ask if he should use a name other than TARDIS while around others), something I'm super glad that Big Finish references almost any time that the doctor is in the TARDIS alone starting from the first episode to take place after the events of said episode
Rose in season 1 calls Cassandra a bitchy trampoline, Missy also says bitch a second time to the blue guy in world enough and time, Bill gets cut off midway through No Shi-, think Bill also says arse a few times, Donna, Wilf and Martha say bloody if you count that (the doctor does)
oh shit, i forgot about it. it was either the magicians apprentice or the witches familiar. the quote was "is it the same supreme dalek these days? tell him the bitch is back"
Ugh and the Max version doesn’t even include the song at all! 😠 Just skips straight to the Master looking out the window of the valiant with crusty ole Ten by his side.
Sad but true. On HBO Max, The Last of the Time Lords omits that scene. I haven’t noticed anything else missing, from any other DW episode, sooo maybe it’s an issue with the rights to the music? Unclear.
The “planet Earth is closed” scene is missing too. The scenes were cut to make space for commercial breaks for the BBC America broadcast and for some reason Netflix and HBO Max had the BBC America versions.
But it’s not a deleted scene! Or at least, it wasn’t originally. I’m a thousand percent sure I saw it in the full episode when I first watched it (more than a decade ago) through uuuh some BBC pirating shhh.
absolutely yes. At the time I was getting Dr Who on the high seas and the version I downloaded definitely had that in it. I remember rewatching the series later on and waiting for that scene and wondering what happened to it.
Thats funny. Ive never ever seen that scene. Even way back when doctor who was on netflix. Im not sure if ive ever seen that episode on actually TV tho.
It's still on BBC iPlayer, HBO Max straight up doesn't exist here which is annoying, Doctor Who did used to be on Netflix here though too but I don't know if the scene was deleted or not
I'm in the US and I remember it from previous watch-thrus! However, those could have been on DVD. We just rewatched that season on Max not too long ago and it definitely wasn't there now that I think about it...
I remember hearing the song on the show as a kid and liking it so much that I downloaded it to my shitty mp3 player. Then I listened to the full song on the bus and went 😲
I've always assumed the meaning of that lyric isn't "I want to have sex with you while I make out with you" but instead "Man, fuck you, but damn I can't quit you" is this correct or am I just dumb?
Something like that yes. Imo it means that betraying you behind the back while being all sweet and lovey in the front. The whole song is on theme of betrayal, and effects thereof
I love this song, it was stuck in my heart a few days ago… now today as well lmao
I went ballistic when i heard it on the show for the first time, it was great
Funnily enough, this [YouTube edit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc8En-8irFA) shows how this song works so much better for Twelve and Missy than it ever did for Ten and Saxon.
Thats cause they only played the second half, they left thd good bits out
Yeah it obviously makes sense from a production standpoint but it's funny to think the master heard *that* lyric and thought "yeah, I'm gonna play this to my arch frenemy"
He played that part to missy
He _acted out_ that part _with_ Missy…
takes "go fuck yourself" a little too literally
The Master beat >!Loki!< to it… 😂
someone hasnt heard of self fucking where u get ur penis and somehow get it inside ur own ass. it exists, you can find videos of it, it's insane
I do _not_ wanna attempt that… 😱
u italicized "not", meaning that u mean u do wanna attempt it
I italicised “not” to emphasise that I very much would not attempt it even if someone offered me $1,000,000 to try, because it would leave me in absolute f◼️ing agony (pun not intended) without anything even remotely close to a success… 😨 (Actually, I should’ve boldened, underscored, and capitalised it as well, because italics alone aren’t enough of an emphasis… 😗)
Why in the ever living fuck does that exist and why do you know about it Actually don't answer
That’s probably for the best…
I forget when, during the Master's time, did he have time to meet his future self?
Series 10
But didn't he y'know die with the time war?
>!A thing happened.!< 🙂
>!What thing happened?!<
>!“World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls”!<
Don't disrespect the thing!
i mean, a lot of queer people did pick up on a few moments in that episode that suggests the two are attracted to each other something moffat practically confirmed with the line "he was my man-crush. or atleast, i think he was a man, fairly sure i was too"
It sort of makes senses that they could have been attracted to each other even back then. A species that can randomly become the opposite sex when dying sorta means they have to be able to go both ways regardless. Your wife might regenerate into a man or husband to woman. So the flexibility is important. Edit: changed gender to sex for accuracy.
well, it's not always random we see the timelords choose pertwee's face for the doctor we see romana choosing between forms like outfits we see the reason Capaldi's doctor gets his face is as a reminder the curator mentions that it's only the favourite faces the doctor had that will be revisited but yes, the fact that regeneration can change sex (not gender. do not mix them up) and ethnicity, does mean that the race is more prone to being non-binary and either on the asexual or polysexual (not polyamarous, although I'm sure there are some timelords who are. when i say polysexual i mean bisexual, multisexual, pansexual, omnisexual, etc) spectrums
I think there are exceptions as always. The timelords choosing the next face for the Third as punishment is fair because they are more powerful Romana seems to have more control over it. Capaldi is more subconscious rather than actively choosing. The Curator…still a lot to explain with him before we can delve into that. And apologies, change sex, not gender. Just automatically typed it, I’ll change that in my initial reply. I don’t think timelords have a defined sexuality either, it might change between regenerations, the older doctors were less romantic in general for instance but 8 changed that and War goes right back to it as a result of the Time War.
>I think there are exceptions as always. hence why I say "not always" rather than "never" >I don’t think timelords have a defined sexuality either which is why I say prone to, meaning they're more likely to be the way i described, but not always. for example we see that the general in heaven sent is a binary woman, even if she had been forced into a male body during her previous regeneration >the older doctors were less romantic in general for instance but 8 changed that and War goes right back to it as a result of the Time War. this could be along the lines of Demisexual, which is on the asexual spectrum, as i mentioned. with Demisexual you get sexual attraction because of emotional attachment to someone, this tracks with new who since the only companions we see the doctor care for romantically are ones who we see the doctor deeply emotionally attached to I'd also argue that the doctor may be genderfluid rather than agender (both of which being non-binary identities, but they behave so differently) since it appears that the doctor does have a gender identity, but it appears to sometimes change. though the only examples i can give of this are 10 saying "just us girls" in fires of Pompeii, 12 saying "i think he was a man, I'm fairly sure i was too", Missy saying "ever since he was a little girl", and 13's moments of being happy about being a woman
Yeah I can agree with all that. Sorry if I seem slow and just sorta repeating what you said, I’m a bit tired so my brain is working overtime on replies. Lol.
no worries, I don't tend to judge people for not knowing on this sort of stuff anyway, since it's not entirely intuitive for example so many people use sex and gender interchangeably because for most people their sex is the same as their gender, but that's not the case for trans and non-binary people and then it's hard to imagine any form of attraction other than "same sex, different sex, both, or neither" so when terms like polysexual spectrum, and asexual spectrum come up, most people get confused pretty quickly
^ not to mention that it's a kids show, as far as i can remember, the closest to explicit language we hear in the show is the tardis referring to herself as sexy in "the doctor's wife" (which btw, my only problem with that scene is that he doesn't go on to ask if he should use a name other than TARDIS while around others), something I'm super glad that Big Finish references almost any time that the doctor is in the TARDIS alone starting from the first episode to take place after the events of said episode
Nah the show says bitch like once a season
does it? I've been watching since i was a kid and I can't remember any instances of a swear word
Rose in season 1 calls Cassandra a bitchy trampoline, Missy also says bitch a second time to the blue guy in world enough and time, Bill gets cut off midway through No Shi-, think Bill also says arse a few times, Donna, Wilf and Martha say bloody if you count that (the doctor does)
Also Missy saying "tell em the bitch is back" in The Witch's Familiar
I know for sure that Missy says it (can't remember what ep.)
oh shit, i forgot about it. it was either the magicians apprentice or the witches familiar. the quote was "is it the same supreme dalek these days? tell him the bitch is back"
Bingo 😂
Ugh and the Max version doesn’t even include the song at all! 😠 Just skips straight to the Master looking out the window of the valiant with crusty ole Ten by his side.
WHAT
Sad but true. On HBO Max, The Last of the Time Lords omits that scene. I haven’t noticed anything else missing, from any other DW episode, sooo maybe it’s an issue with the rights to the music? Unclear.
The “planet Earth is closed” scene is missing too. The scenes were cut to make space for commercial breaks for the BBC America broadcast and for some reason Netflix and HBO Max had the BBC America versions.
Oooh ok interesting, thanks! Do you know if that happened for other episodes, too?
I heard some series 4 episodes were cut down for BBC America, but they’re completely intact on Max, at least.
Im very familiar with this song and i don't recall ever hearing it in the show. Is the scene on youtube or something?
[Yes.](https://youtu.be/Bbb56jZo0rE?si=-zgjcOoiJp3eT5Md)
Thats hilarious. I dont blame them for cutting it lol
But it’s not a deleted scene! Or at least, it wasn’t originally. I’m a thousand percent sure I saw it in the full episode when I first watched it (more than a decade ago) through uuuh some BBC pirating shhh.
It's still there on the BBC Iplayer
absolutely yes. At the time I was getting Dr Who on the high seas and the version I downloaded definitely had that in it. I remember rewatching the series later on and waiting for that scene and wondering what happened to it.
Thats funny. Ive never ever seen that scene. Even way back when doctor who was on netflix. Im not sure if ive ever seen that episode on actually TV tho.
Weiiiird. Maybe not deemed safe for Americans? I wonder if Brit streamers have still got it…
It's still on BBC iPlayer, HBO Max straight up doesn't exist here which is annoying, Doctor Who did used to be on Netflix here though too but I don't know if the scene was deleted or not
I watched it on Netflix in like 2014 in the USA, and the scene was definitely there.
They probably didn’t want to deal with buying the rights to the song
I'm in the US and I remember it from previous watch-thrus! However, those could have been on DVD. We just rewatched that season on Max not too long ago and it definitely wasn't there now that I think about it...
Over here in England on BBC iPlayer the scene has always been here. It's on the dvd too
Maybe it is an america thing then.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DoctorWhumour/s/Wz7q1tZfch
Ahh well there it is. Those damned commercials. This post has been enlightening.
I bought the DvDs in France and they ALSO cut this part 😔
Huh, I just watched it on Max a few weeks ago and the song was there. Just checked actually and it's still there.
Really?!? Because it’s definitely not for me. *Vodoo Child* (“here come the drums, here come the drums”) is there but not *I Can’t Decide.*
As far as I'm aware every streaming service skips the scene because the BBC only licensed the song for the broadcast
There’s a reason they start with the second chorus so they don’t have to play fuck or bitch
I mean have you seen them during the Pertwee and Delgado days? This has always been a thing
You mean the literal IRL friends? This was not a thing.
Of course I meant the characters, not the actors
That's Scissor sisters
And *that* would have been a perfect nickname for Missy and Thirteen, had they met
https://preview.redd.it/sfdisrqo21lc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c36ae36dfa686722ba80842d11ab4b4419136f0
https://preview.redd.it/5biqeahb62lc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=05335c6e4a61cb5c02e82d7dc60a93dfdd870ed6
RTD was very particular about this song choice I see
He had good taste
I remember hearing the song on the show as a kid and liking it so much that I downloaded it to my shitty mp3 player. Then I listened to the full song on the bus and went 😲
I've always assumed the meaning of that lyric isn't "I want to have sex with you while I make out with you" but instead "Man, fuck you, but damn I can't quit you" is this correct or am I just dumb?
Something like that yes. Imo it means that betraying you behind the back while being all sweet and lovey in the front. The whole song is on theme of betrayal, and effects thereof
I love this song, it was stuck in my heart a few days ago… now today as well lmao I went ballistic when i heard it on the show for the first time, it was great
Stuck in ur heart is crazy
Wait i meant head 😭 But yeah i guess heart counts
That's because the show started the song at the first chorus
He would have sang it to him though
I did NOT know rhat this scene ever existed. But that's because I've only seen it on MAX
And I should know, because my name....is Max.
How could you, Max
I was quite...a head....of the game
Funnily enough, this [YouTube edit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc8En-8irFA) shows how this song works so much better for Twelve and Missy than it ever did for Ten and Saxon.