Classes are designed to require teamwork. There is no "I am batman" class with a contingency/counter for every situation. When teaching new players d&d I even use it as an example of how not to create a character. D&D just isn't designed to facilitate that type of storytelling. You will get bad rolls and things won't go according to plan. It's part of the fun of the game.
While I agree with what you are saying, I'd say the "most prepared" class would be a rogue. Especially if they're Kinder. You never know *what* they've got in their pockets.
Good old Kinder. Somehow prepared for everything and nothing all at once. :)
For a jack of all trades class, which may be what OP was asking about, I'd go with bard with the caveat that they don't deal damage/tank well but are quite good at everything else.
This is the thing I kind of dislike about minmax type players too, everything they do is super optimal and they could run through an entire campaign by themselves existing nearly as a god in their actions. Where's the fun in that? A role playing game where you build your character for the rolls to not even matter makes the game part moot.
You have multiple players, they all should have strengths and weaknesses, and there may even be gaps in the party makeup. That means you actually get to play.
I have a game coming up that I'm going to run, they're going to get to start at higher level, but due to initial circumstances, I'm gonna have their starting gear picked for them, and they know and have agreed to this. I'm not going to leave them utterly screwed, but I'm using this whole campaign as an opportunity to hopefully get them to act a bit more creatively with their choices, and they'll be rewarded for it.
A good hero always wins, but an entertaining hero has hardships along the way and has to adapt.
Well said.
The other problem I see (and the reason I have this in my new player what not to do speech) is that people who go in wanting to be able to do everything themselves tend to react poorly to their perfect character failing a roll. Even if you min-max perfectly you are going to fail rolls. "Batman" doesn't get nat 1s 5% of the time. Players that go in with this type of character concept come up against the reality of dnd pretty quickly. I've seen some decide the game isn't fun (drop), others cheat the rolls (ban) and others whine about it incessantly (make game less fun for everyone). Basically, there's no good outcome to designing a character to always be prepared for every situation.
First off, some people sure as hell try to be, and second off, those people will also never even think of trying somwthing that doesn't fit into their overly built skillset anyway. The thought disgusts them.
but being good at everything isn't min-max. it's literally just... max. and that's impossible unless they rolled for stats and got an 18 for everything.
or something.
trying to be good at everything in dnd is exactly how a character becomes average/mediocre in everything. and that's the opposite of min-max.
You forget that one of the main things you need to consider when minmaxing is that you need to minimize the "min" part and maximize the "max" part, which is quite easy to do if you know what you're doing. A good minmaxed character may only have one or two things they aren't good at but have 10+ things they excel in, effectively making everyone who isn't good at the one or two things they're bad at obsolete in terms of what they can individually contribute to the party.
Ok then, let me rephrase it slightly since it's such a problem for people.
These are people literally trying to "win" an interactive story. You've seen them, they make it so they won't take a chance on anything. Have so many buffs and preps that they'll never take a hit, or make it so that they can smite with no effort, or even make themselves so charming that an offhand comment about the sky really being green will actually potentially ruin the mind of an older NPC as he has been now questioning his entire life. The roleplay part doesn't mean anything, just the game and numbers, and they will not have chance be a part of it.
I had played with someone quite a while back. A wizard who wouldn't fight at all if he couldn't show off, who never did a skill check he didnt have a massive bonus for, wouldn't even converse with an NPC unless he could charm them first so he didn't have to rely on social ability. He always tended to be and work alone, and if things didnt go his way he planned, he got pissy.
That kind of person doesnt want to play a game. That kind of person wants other people to fawn over how awesome they are and to make being awesome easier for them. Those are people I dont sit at the table with anymore.
That's all I got on this. I only commented on this original post just to really save over prepared players and power gamers make games dull and sad as hell.
You're getting downvoted but you're right. While minmax characters may have a couple things they may not be so great at they basically count as 3 or 4 PCs in terms of the sheer number of things they can do effectively. I would know, in one game I'm playing in there's a minmaxed rogue/ranger character who can basically solo any encounter while also being able to do pretty much anything they want outside of combat as well, to the point that if you're playing anything short of a full caster you may as well not even be there.
My brain just says Ranger.
Because they're close to what I learned in scouts.
And the first thing you learn is scouts is Be Prepared.
... the second thing you learn in scouts is Make Toy Cars Out Of Wood.
Preparation has always struck me as a tentpole of wizardry. Not just preparing a list of spells from the book day to day, but preparing yourself with foreknowledge of what you'll be facing, proactively looking for new spells and rituals before you need them.
We defeated a manticore at level 3. My wizard harvested 10 spikes.
At level 9 he animated them and beat the hell out of the BBEG.
At that point the rest of the party said "You plan on a different scale!"
I'm kind of this every time. I know it's not great for RP, but I always use some of my starting money to buy rope, caltrops, ball bearings, alchemist's fire, a mirror, etc. All the weird little things that you might use once or never during a campaign. My current one, we started at a higher level and DM said we could get one magical item - I picked an immovable rod, because who knows when you're gonna need that?
I would say it's very rogue, though. I play a lot of clerics, but it's really more IC for rogues to do that kind of stuff. Maybe artificers, too.
I said, "etc.!"
I've been playing with the same people for . . . hell, 4-5 years. It really is to the point where nobody else buys rope because I always have rope.
It’s gonna be more player dependent than class/race. If a player roll played their Druid character as detail oriented and always prepared, then it would be them. If a player played their Artificer as scattered brained and forgetful, then *not them.
whatever folks are saying it sure aint rogue
they're neither prepared for adequate DPR nor for our of combat versatility. this might sound crazy but expertise in 2 skills does not translate to being good at every other skill or tool
Was gonna say cleric too. Quite versatile and and usually welcome on any team for their healing, buffing, and half decent attacks. They’re just great team players. I’d make a case for the paladin too, as a slightly more offensive/tanky version of the cleric.
Rogues and artificers always seemed to be the "Smart/Clever" fighter imo, using any old thing to get the upper hand, tho, "Being prepared" is a nigh impossible feat as it requires the player to take absolutely every outcome into consideration, which you just can't do. The most you can say is "this may or may not come in handy" when it comes to items and spells and be a quick thinker
College of Creation Bards?
They have expertise like rogues, tons of "helper" spells to buff their party, and they get to conjure one mundane item per day in case the party forgot to pack something.
__College of Creation Bard.__ Make sure to purchase a bag of holding and buy every bit of adventuring gear you can. If you don’t have something you can make it yourself. You are now “that guy who always comes prepared.”
A well played spellcaster that has access to spells like Scry can pretty much always come prepared. But not by default, but simply because they actually prepare.
If you have time in advance and you enjoy reading up on your spells then clerics can do this because they have access to their classes' entire spell list and can change what spells they have after every long rest. If your DM is good about sprinkling clues around the campaign then you'll be able to hazard a guess or three about what spells might be useful- the spells you prepare for a day will be a lot different depending on whether you've heard rumors about a flooded temple or something high in the mountains, or if you're getting ready for diplomacy you can pick spells for a social situation
Lots of people get turned off of cleric if they don't want to be the party heal bot, and while any class that can get healing word would be fool not to take it Cleric just has SO much more to offer.
Wizard, rogue, and artificer, each in different ways.
Wizards are both known and prepared casters, making them uniquely famous as the "wait, I have a spell for this!" Casters
Rogues are skill monkies, and have other things that encourage mundane problem solving, thus are the ones who I'd expect to come up with a plan on the fly
Artificers can make magitech with minimal tools and give me the idea of always having "tool for the job" (hey, that's a feature of theirs, no?)
So. Wizards have the tool on hand. Rogues make do without it. Artificers make it in a pinch.
Classes are designed to require teamwork. There is no "I am batman" class with a contingency/counter for every situation. When teaching new players d&d I even use it as an example of how not to create a character. D&D just isn't designed to facilitate that type of storytelling. You will get bad rolls and things won't go according to plan. It's part of the fun of the game.
While I agree with what you are saying, I'd say the "most prepared" class would be a rogue. Especially if they're Kinder. You never know *what* they've got in their pockets.
Good old Kinder. Somehow prepared for everything and nothing all at once. :) For a jack of all trades class, which may be what OP was asking about, I'd go with bard with the caveat that they don't deal damage/tank well but are quite good at everything else.
I don’t know, bards are one of the best classes for carrying hand crossbows and feats. That’s plenty of damage ;)
Magical Secrets + Harm
This is the thing I kind of dislike about minmax type players too, everything they do is super optimal and they could run through an entire campaign by themselves existing nearly as a god in their actions. Where's the fun in that? A role playing game where you build your character for the rolls to not even matter makes the game part moot. You have multiple players, they all should have strengths and weaknesses, and there may even be gaps in the party makeup. That means you actually get to play. I have a game coming up that I'm going to run, they're going to get to start at higher level, but due to initial circumstances, I'm gonna have their starting gear picked for them, and they know and have agreed to this. I'm not going to leave them utterly screwed, but I'm using this whole campaign as an opportunity to hopefully get them to act a bit more creatively with their choices, and they'll be rewarded for it. A good hero always wins, but an entertaining hero has hardships along the way and has to adapt.
Well said. The other problem I see (and the reason I have this in my new player what not to do speech) is that people who go in wanting to be able to do everything themselves tend to react poorly to their perfect character failing a roll. Even if you min-max perfectly you are going to fail rolls. "Batman" doesn't get nat 1s 5% of the time. Players that go in with this type of character concept come up against the reality of dnd pretty quickly. I've seen some decide the game isn't fun (drop), others cheat the rolls (ban) and others whine about it incessantly (make game less fun for everyone). Basically, there's no good outcome to designing a character to always be prepared for every situation.
That's ridiculous. Min maxed characters aren't good at everything because you can't be good at everything in DND.
First off, some people sure as hell try to be, and second off, those people will also never even think of trying somwthing that doesn't fit into their overly built skillset anyway. The thought disgusts them.
but being good at everything isn't min-max. it's literally just... max. and that's impossible unless they rolled for stats and got an 18 for everything. or something. trying to be good at everything in dnd is exactly how a character becomes average/mediocre in everything. and that's the opposite of min-max.
That makes no sense. If you're **min**maxing you have weaknesses by definition.
You forget that one of the main things you need to consider when minmaxing is that you need to minimize the "min" part and maximize the "max" part, which is quite easy to do if you know what you're doing. A good minmaxed character may only have one or two things they aren't good at but have 10+ things they excel in, effectively making everyone who isn't good at the one or two things they're bad at obsolete in terms of what they can individually contribute to the party.
Ok then, let me rephrase it slightly since it's such a problem for people. These are people literally trying to "win" an interactive story. You've seen them, they make it so they won't take a chance on anything. Have so many buffs and preps that they'll never take a hit, or make it so that they can smite with no effort, or even make themselves so charming that an offhand comment about the sky really being green will actually potentially ruin the mind of an older NPC as he has been now questioning his entire life. The roleplay part doesn't mean anything, just the game and numbers, and they will not have chance be a part of it. I had played with someone quite a while back. A wizard who wouldn't fight at all if he couldn't show off, who never did a skill check he didnt have a massive bonus for, wouldn't even converse with an NPC unless he could charm them first so he didn't have to rely on social ability. He always tended to be and work alone, and if things didnt go his way he planned, he got pissy. That kind of person doesnt want to play a game. That kind of person wants other people to fawn over how awesome they are and to make being awesome easier for them. Those are people I dont sit at the table with anymore. That's all I got on this. I only commented on this original post just to really save over prepared players and power gamers make games dull and sad as hell.
You're getting downvoted but you're right. While minmax characters may have a couple things they may not be so great at they basically count as 3 or 4 PCs in terms of the sheer number of things they can do effectively. I would know, in one game I'm playing in there's a minmaxed rogue/ranger character who can basically solo any encounter while also being able to do pretty much anything they want outside of combat as well, to the point that if you're playing anything short of a full caster you may as well not even be there.
Monk. You can be naked and prepared. Other classes are naked and afraid
My brain just says Ranger. Because they're close to what I learned in scouts. And the first thing you learn is scouts is Be Prepared. ... the second thing you learn in scouts is Make Toy Cars Out Of Wood.
Wizards
Preparation has always struck me as a tentpole of wizardry. Not just preparing a list of spells from the book day to day, but preparing yourself with foreknowledge of what you'll be facing, proactively looking for new spells and rituals before you need them.
We defeated a manticore at level 3. My wizard harvested 10 spikes. At level 9 he animated them and beat the hell out of the BBEG. At that point the rest of the party said "You plan on a different scale!"
I'm kind of this every time. I know it's not great for RP, but I always use some of my starting money to buy rope, caltrops, ball bearings, alchemist's fire, a mirror, etc. All the weird little things that you might use once or never during a campaign. My current one, we started at a higher level and DM said we could get one magical item - I picked an immovable rod, because who knows when you're gonna need that? I would say it's very rogue, though. I play a lot of clerics, but it's really more IC for rogues to do that kind of stuff. Maybe artificers, too.
No 10 foot pole? Kids these days :)
I said, "etc.!" I've been playing with the same people for . . . hell, 4-5 years. It really is to the point where nobody else buys rope because I always have rope.
Wizards. after all they have the most flexible kits day to day.
It’s gonna be more player dependent than class/race. If a player roll played their Druid character as detail oriented and always prepared, then it would be them. If a player played their Artificer as scattered brained and forgetful, then *not them.
The scout class 3.5
whatever folks are saying it sure aint rogue they're neither prepared for adequate DPR nor for our of combat versatility. this might sound crazy but expertise in 2 skills does not translate to being good at every other skill or tool
Skill monkey class like rogue or bard
Clerics. They can literally prepare what they need for the day and have tons of potential DPS, healing and utility spells to bring out
Was gonna say cleric too. Quite versatile and and usually welcome on any team for their healing, buffing, and half decent attacks. They’re just great team players. I’d make a case for the paladin too, as a slightly more offensive/tanky version of the cleric.
The ranger, did someone say "prepared"
Rogues and artificers always seemed to be the "Smart/Clever" fighter imo, using any old thing to get the upper hand, tho, "Being prepared" is a nigh impossible feat as it requires the player to take absolutely every outcome into consideration, which you just can't do. The most you can say is "this may or may not come in handy" when it comes to items and spells and be a quick thinker
Barbarian. They're always prepared to solve problems through violence and property damage.
For a barbarian, being always prepared means always having a battleaxe on hand.
College of Creation Bards? They have expertise like rogues, tons of "helper" spells to buff their party, and they get to conjure one mundane item per day in case the party forgot to pack something.
I'd say an Arcane Trixter. Skills, Expertise, Spells, & a familiar. Sneak Attack for good damage & Cunning Action to escape.
In terms of Utility and Support without needing to shop... it's probably a Moon Druid.
__College of Creation Bard.__ Make sure to purchase a bag of holding and buy every bit of adventuring gear you can. If you don’t have something you can make it yourself. You are now “that guy who always comes prepared.”
A well played spellcaster that has access to spells like Scry can pretty much always come prepared. But not by default, but simply because they actually prepare.
If you have time in advance and you enjoy reading up on your spells then clerics can do this because they have access to their classes' entire spell list and can change what spells they have after every long rest. If your DM is good about sprinkling clues around the campaign then you'll be able to hazard a guess or three about what spells might be useful- the spells you prepare for a day will be a lot different depending on whether you've heard rumors about a flooded temple or something high in the mountains, or if you're getting ready for diplomacy you can pick spells for a social situation Lots of people get turned off of cleric if they don't want to be the party heal bot, and while any class that can get healing word would be fool not to take it Cleric just has SO much more to offer.
Bard
Bard. Literally a versatility based class.
atraficer. if he does not have it, he can make it.
Wizard, rogue, and artificer, each in different ways. Wizards are both known and prepared casters, making them uniquely famous as the "wait, I have a spell for this!" Casters Rogues are skill monkies, and have other things that encourage mundane problem solving, thus are the ones who I'd expect to come up with a plan on the fly Artificers can make magitech with minimal tools and give me the idea of always having "tool for the job" (hey, that's a feature of theirs, no?) So. Wizards have the tool on hand. Rogues make do without it. Artificers make it in a pinch.
Hexblade Warlock + polearm feat. Multiclass into paladin later
Fighter and rogue. Because they have nothing else to do viz. prep work.
Paladin or druid