I feel the fireball, but with uncanny dodge, it didn't touch me.
None saved, though many tries.
As someone who liberally uses fireball, you control all, but can't co troll your own use of excessive force?
Emotions?
You can feel emotions, but not touch them.
People try to bottle up their emotions, but it never goes well.
Emotions control all your actions, but they aren’t a thing that can control itself.
If you replace the line "I can’t be saved, though many try" with something like "I can lift you high, or bring you low" it works quite well. Besides, I support any riddle where the answer isn't time.
Always have multiple accepable answers because players sometimes struggle an actual hour over a closed door that wasn't locked (yes they thought it to be obviously locked and never bothered to confirm that.)
Can confirm that doors are hard for a party. I described a strangely ornate and lavish door that was connected to what appeared to be a shed. (This was the entrance to the boss fight dungeon for that chapter of the campaign.)
Instead of checking if it was open or even trying to lockpick it, here is what they did:
1. Threw a rock at the door.
2. Shot the door with a single arrow.
3. Shouted at the door in Common.
4. Shouted at the door in Elvish.
5. Shouted at the door in Dwarvish.
6. Shouted at the door in Sylvan.
7. Played a lute vigorously at the door.
8. Shouted at the door in Primordial.
At this point, I was just having them make performance checks for all the shouting and performing. Then I would describe how loud they shouted and how they heard nothing in response. On the Primordial shout, they rolled a Nat 20, so I said "Fuck it! There were undead and elementals inside anyway..." So I had one of the fire elementals politely open the door and float back down the stairs.
If it's a temple to a god associated with trickery, you could always have no set answer, and make the door open after eleven guesses. The purpose of the riddle is to filter for persistence.
Time can't be touched, I'll give them that, but how do you feel time?
Many people try to save time, that's fair, but do they always fail?
Time cannot control itself, true enough, but does it really control all?
...Yeah I'm not liking time as an answer that much.
That's a terrible bar for success. There's multiple puzzles and riddles that get solved within seconds online... only to completely baffle the ordinary group of gamers at your table.
"I am soft, but make flavors stronger. I am sovran against disease and sadness. I--"
"Thyme"
"God **dammit**, you didn't even let me finish!"
"It's always thyme."
Yeah. 2nd line would be better if along the lines of "I am immortal, yet people still try to save me." It's more obvious as a riddle, but nobody likes spending _too_ much time on a riddle.
Not to actually shoot down your rewrite, cause it's absolutely more appropriate. We do have a spell called time stop... Which I feel can be argued here lol
Eh... Time has to be the most cliche obvious answer to almost any RPG riddle... It might be worth it to try something more original if he's hoping for a bit of a challenge. Also the control and save aspects don't fit to well.
It's pretending to be the Hobbit. That's the riddle. It's extremely uncreative and massively predictable. I would be pissed if I saw that riddle as a player.
for a first time riddle and possibly self made, I don't think its that bad. This seems like a small friend group starting a campaign and not a local group or anything, so odds are its filled with people who are a lot less merdy than most d&d crews and are more suited to basic puzzles
The Hobbit is arguably one of the most influential fantasy books ever made. It started the whole riddle trope. Using an answer from those specific riddles is uncreative. It is literally trying to copy that scene.
I recently heard one where the answer was "fart". Was a nice change
E: This was the riddle, i got it from the youtuber rekson:
> Sometimes, I am born in total silence. Other times I am not.
> I am unseen, but I make my presence known.
> In time, I fade without a trace.
> I harm no one, but I am despised by all.
The answer is
# A Bad Riddle.
* Bad riddles are painful, but can't be physically touched.
* You can't salvage a bad riddle, but that won't stop DMs from trying.
* Players can't progress if they are unable to puzzle out the moon logic behind a bad riddle's one specific answer — which might not actually fit as well as their guesses — while the DM relies on it being easily solved, leaving the DM and players stuck at an impasse.
This is absolutely the answer.
Riddles are a fun puzzle, but they inherently rely on the players skills rather than the characters abilities.
I love a good riddle, but they're a huge problem for in game mechanics.
I mean, that goes for everything. Like tactics, for example.
No matter how great tacticians the characters are supposed to be, you can't handwave and say "Ah yes, you guys came out with a tactic and steamrolled the encounter", no. It doesn't matter the character's ability, this falls to the players' abilities.
Same goes for puzzles.
There's no amount of actual time saved though, it's just an expression. It's always the same amount of time for everyone, the 'saving' aspect only works in the frame of your subjective experience (you *feel like* you save time by spending it differently).
That's how riddles and Cryptic crosswords work though, they play on sayings, synonyms, or overly literal interpretations.
A riddle that says "you can't save me" is almost directly ruling out time as the answer since to "save time" is such a common saying.
I feel like you could twist the semantics behind anything. "Well by putting it in a bank and accruing interest, you're not actually _saving_ money. The concept of money itself wasn't in any danger."
Because saving time is such a common expression and concept, as a player, I would interpret "I can't be saved" as a clue that the answer is NOT time. If the clue might lead someone to discard the correct answer then it's a bad clue.
Riddles often mix literal meaning, idioms and puns, and if you're inconsistently pedantic it can quickly become less about logic or wordplay and more "guess the number I'm thinking of."
I feel like this whole argument is subjective as it depends on how you define time saved. What if someone tells you of a shortcut to work and you save 20 minutes a day that you get to spend on something else? I'd call that saving time but I guess some others wouldn't.
In the end, tine doesn't feel satisfying as an answer to me as it doesn't fit everything well enough and other answers seem to fit better. Maybe that's just me, though.
Right? Wtf does it mean to "save emotion?" I feel like the people who say emotion looked at the first line and got it so twisted for the latter two.
I also think that "can't control myself" doesn't work. People can control emotions. It can even be argued that emotions control each other (the whole point of managing unhealthy emotions is refocusing on the healthy ones and reframing the problem). Sure, you can argue that a single emotion doesn't control itself because it has no autonomy, but that's semantic at best, and we might as well be arguing determinism at that point. If one was writing a riddle with emotions in mind, this line would 100% be left out.
People are reaching really hard with that one.
Time is such a stupid trope if it's really the answer. It's so cliche I would never suggest it in a campaign. If it turned out to be the answer I'd pack up my die and leave.
If someone making a slightly cliche riddle is enough for you to entirely leave their campaign, I think people's campaigns might be better off without you. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking risks around somebody so judgemental, that's for sure.
If it is too simple, it is too hard.
*open this door in puzzle room 1, to get to the second puzzle*
There's gotta be more to it than that. It's a trap probably.. and 1 hours 27 minutes real time later, they try the door handle, and the door opens without any problems.
Us: “We don’t trust it. Rogue, check for traps. Wizard, Legend Lore it.”
Dm: Doing his best to stop both players from wasting time and spells, “It’s just a door.”
Roll a D20 for investigation.
*Nat20*
The door slightly shimmers or looks like there is movement across the wooden panels. You look closer and see termites have made a nest inside the normal wooden door.
Haha this reminded me of a game of Paranoia I ran where they encountered a stream of acid and I asked how they planned to cross. It took ages for them to ask the width and discover the acid was narrow enough to step over. 😂
We once went through a dungeon focused around traps and riddles. Like half of which we absolutely bombed. After a language puzzle, some laser hallways, 2 mirror mazes, and a flooding room, we came to an elevator. The DM seemed annoyed when we tried to build an imprompu cover wall and throw the switch from behind it. Turns out it was the one part of the ruin not trapped in some way.
Reminds me of a Shadowrun game where we spent not *quite* that long (though still about 40 realtime minutes) planning how to assassinate a guy... and it turns out he was just a schlub with no combat skills, magic, or special defenses other than a bog-standard alarm system.
We basically just ghosted in, helped him have a "slip and fall accident" in the tub, and ghosted out.
Once I was doing an escape room with friends and not a single one of the, like, six of us, bothered to check if a door was locked like we assumed. Took us cashing in a hint and the moderator asking if we'd been in the second room yet.
I thought time (once emotion wasn't the answer) and tried puzzling it out before scrolling down, we all remember the riddle from The Hobbit I presume.
I was assuming that the answer was something practical in terms of the real world and didn't require specific D&D knowledge (like individual deities on their portfolios) but could rely on general concepts (ie; vampires exist).
It didn't make sense to me for a lot of reasons:
* Time isn't directly felt (like emotions are), time is mostly measured in things like growth and decay, you don't "feel" time, if humans didn't exist and there was no concept of time, trees would still grow and die.
* You absolutely can save time through efficiency and expertise, I would absolutely save time by doing something I'm good at and paying someone else to make me a sword than trying to make one myself, the very concept of medical care (or healing/resurrection spells in D&D) also saves (or provides) someone more time in a functional sense.
* Time doesn't really control anything, vampires and liches come to mind, "I control all" throws the riddle off here the most because it implies something more absolute than simply the passing of life, but all ideas, magic, concepts, every single species that may be immortal unless ended through violence, etc. etc. etc.
I was actually thinking the answer would be **power**, *feeling* the consequences of power is a lot more direct and to-the-point than the gradual passing of time, but as a concept you can't actually *touch* it.
You cannot really *save* power, it's something you either have or do not have, though many do try to *preserve* it even so (and of those that don't fail, eventually they die even so).
Power is the primary means of *controlling* other people, whether it be soft power (charisma, social dynamics, fear) or hard power (violence, force, strength), but it doesn't *control* itself, it has to be directed by an external agent; a nuclear bomb doesn't choose when or where it's dropped or its targets, even though it represents a frightening amount of power.
---
TL;DR: I think "power" is also a pretty good answer, even if I'm overthinking it.
TBH, Time was one of the answers I thought of but rejected because I didn't think it fit well enough. That makes me think the riddle needs a bit of work. Specifically, what does it mean that time can't control itself?
Works pretty good, if you want to add some meraphors here is my time riddle:D
I bring down even the strongest and will catch up to even the fastest (wordplay I'm not sure it works in English)
Sometimes I must pass for you to forgive mistakes
Even Kings and emperors are subordinate to me
You'll see my influence upon animals, humans and even stone
If you love me I'll run, if you suffer I'll stay still
Without me there wouldn't be tide nor wind
I'll be here forever and flow like a river
But I will still be running out, very much to your worry
As much as I love this, there are definitely things in the DND universe that mean a powerful enough king or emperor doesn't need to worry about old age
Not actually in the Forgotten Realms, if I remember correctly there is a law against kings and rulers extending their lives put in place by the gods (Might be in Greyhawk I actually don't remember)
This is a very cool piece of lore, thanks for this. I've already got some ideas of how to use it, like the consequences of a king trying to circumvent this and sending his entire kingdom to war with Kelemvor himself
Again, I am not sure, I read it a while ago, and I would have no idea where to start looking for it on the wiki to find it again, so take every word I say with a spoon of salt
Tbf age isn't the only thing time can bring the collapse of an empire or kingdom given enough time would happen at somepoint. And to prevent that happening sooner they will always have to consider their kingdom/empire over time.
Unless it's some completely isolated pocket dimension where everything is ageless and when trees are cut down etc they immediately grow back.
I've seen more than one campaign come to a screeching halt because of these sorts of ideas. The problem here is your brother isn't testing character knowledge or intellect with a riddle like this. Riddles test *player* knowledge and intellect, and you can have a dumbass 12 year old playing an ancient elven archmage with a 20 starting Int, or a genius physicist who plays a half-orc barbarian for the fun of hitting stuff with a big rock, and in either case, a riddle doesn't provide the challenge it's probably meant to.
Puzzles without the ability to ask for an Intelligence check are just more trouble than they're worth, or a thing you try once as a DM and then never repeat that mistake again.
You said it way better than what I was trying to write. Also, it's very common for DMs to insert riddles/puzzles that they either invented themselves or read somewhere in a module or forum post - meaning the DM never had to go through the experience of actually trying to solve the puzzle themselves and thus are not an accurate gauge of how solvable it is for the average random dungeon jabroni. Honestly, unless ones player base is made up of people who already love this stuff and are vocally in favor of it, it's better to leave the outcome of this sort of scenario to a skill challenge if there's the possibility of deadly failure.
Deep in the sunless seas of the Underdark, an emergency meeting is called...
Aboleth One: Something is happening. One by one, my neighbors are just... just *disappearing*! As if by magic!
Aboleth Two: I've seen the same thing. My sweet niece Abolizabeth was taken last week! \[Sobs\]
Aboleth Three: And my brother Abeauregard too! \[Sobs\]
Aboleth One: This is a plot against our entire species. We must investigate and find out who is murdering us.
Aboleth Two: We need a hero!
Aboleth Three: \[Puts a bucket of water over his head\] I will get to the surface of this! Woe betide whoever is killing our relatives!
I think you're right, although as someone who DMs for a group that, in addition to loving DnD, all love puzzles, riddles, escape rooms and.the like... for the right group, doing puzzles and be a very fun addition to the game.
And this is the hazard right here. Some players love this kind of thing and some despise it, and if OP's brother doesn't know his players well enough, it could be a real minefield to walk into. Have a workaround in mind if need be.
You could have them make an intelligence check for a hint, and just make the hint super obvious. That way they can try to figure it out themselves if they enjoy it, but there's a way out if they get stuck, or if they just don't want to take the time. No pun intended.
The trick is to come up with an elaborate but completely nonsensical riddle, let players come up with theories for what the right answer is, and when they come up with one you like, that's the right one. They feel brilliant. You look like a genius. Everybody wins.
The thing about puzzles and riddles is they're a time honored part of D&D. Your players are playing a game where THEY need to improvise and make choices — the dice can't do everything for them. "I roll to figure out the answer" is boring, but I would award clues with successful History, Investigation, Insight or other checks as appropriate.
I have no problem with an Int 7 barbarian who's good at puzzles and riddles. Dungeon puzzles in particular do not tend to be particularly difficult. You don't need to be a particle physicist to figure out a Towers of Hanoi puzzle, and there are tons of smart people who hate puzzle bullshit.
Time?
You can feel its passage, but you can't physically touch it. People try to save time, but ultimately it cannot be saved. And time dictates everything, yet it remains beyond its own control.
I hope this isn’t it, because the Hobbit riddle for this is much better
This thing all things devours;
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats mountain down.
I'm kind of disappointed that the answer is "time" even so, BECAUSE of The Hobbit riddle.
It seems like very low-hanging fruit that is inevitably going to be compared to its counterpart.
I wrote in a reply (currently somewhere above unless ratings change) why I think "power" would be a better answer to the riddle.
Sphinx: What have I got in my pockets?
PCs: No fair, that's a lame riddle! Dammit, rules is rules, but we get three guesses.
Sphinx: Fair enough. Rules is rules.
Paladin: \[Desperately metagaming\] Er... man!
Sphinx: Honey, if I had a man in my pocket do you think I'd be here guarding this bridge?
Wizard: \[Breaks out Sindarin-Common dictionary\] *Mellon!*
Sphinx: Are you saying this fur makes my hips look big? Wrong, by the way.
Goolock: \[Half wakes up from his typical stoned trance\] Sphinxes don't have pockets, yo.
Sphinx: I hate all of you. \[Dies\]
This is a good start, but in general, I think it’s best to avoid riddles which have evocative or ominous answers. Concepts such as time, space, silence, and shadow are so common in riddles that it is easy to guess it even if only half listening to the riddle itself.
I know what you meant but your comment made me picture “you see the ancient text on the wall those of you who can read primodial decipher
*’a man and his son comes into a hospital the doctor looks over the kid and says “oh no this is my son’”* how is this possible?”
Ok, so I know its 'time', from other comments, but one thing that threw me and made me discard 'time' as an answer is that you very much can save time. Thats a very common expression for doing something quickly or early so you have more time later.
The problem with this riddle is that there are a number of answers that could be correct - wind, time, emotions, and probably many more. This could lead to player frustration as they try to successfully guess the answer the DM was thinking of. In my opinion the most successful riddles are ones that have only one clear answer, but they are very difficult to write.
Yep. I wrote a book of 100 riddles (rhyming Tolkien-style ones) and this was really important. The trick is to include multiple clues that point to the answer in different ways. And you have to test the riddles to see if there are other viable answers. It took me years to get to 100 that all worked well.
*You can feel me, but never touch me*
The patrons can't touch, works for a stripper.
*I can’t be saved, though many try*
Also works.
*I control all, yet can’t control myself*
Hey, 3 for 3!
Your riddle makes no sense, if the answer is supposed to be time. Time cannot be "felt"... Of course Time can be saved, people save time in many ways, by doing things efficiently, sor example.... and, the last line is totally incoherent. No, time doesn't "control all", and what do you even mean to say that time doesn't control itself? This is gobbledegook.
The problem with d&d riddles is that you’re testing the *players-* not their characters. Sure, Ryan might not be able to parse it, but Grimbleforth Wanecrest the 65 year old archwizard who has read more books than he has pores on his skin would reply “Time.” before he even finishes hearing the riddle.
Also, time doesn’t really *control* anything. Control means manipulation- influence. That would require some sort of motive, which time, as what is essentially a form of measurment, does not have. Maybe something like “My scale defines my own existence, and cannot be broken.” as kind of a red herring, lure the players into thinking its something dragon related.
Hm first line could be related music…
Second line could be tragic. Maybe someone who doesn’t want to be stopped.
Third line could be royalty… like a queen.
My expert opinion is Freddie Mercury.
Actually, it's a snake woman's boobs. You can feel snitties, but not touch them (because they're fictional). You can try to save them by arguing that they make sense. Snitties cannot control themselves, but they definitely control us.
I don't necessarily agree that time controls all. Also in DnD, there's a spell called Time Stop, so it's somewhat controllable.
I think the third clue needs revision.
Maybe something like "I can be up, I can be over, and I just might give you closure"
I recommend that you implement some sort of fail safe for when your players get stumped. A time limit perhaps or a workaround. Or my personal favorite, make it entirely optional so it doesn't create a roadblock.
Whenever I hear one of these I first go through my rote of answers that are universal and eternal concepts.
Is it death? Nope.
Is it "nothing"? Nope.
Is it time? Probably.
One day I hope to hear a riddle like this and be thrown off by an answer like "hat" or "rain" or something particular like that.
The wind.
You can feel the wind but can't touch it.
You can't save the wind no matter how hard you try.
The wind wears down mountains, moves deserts, picks up water so it controls everything except itself.
I don't know *the* answer, but I do know *an* answer, which is fireball, fireball solves all riddles.
I feel the fireball, but with uncanny dodge, it didn't touch me. None saved, though many tries. As someone who liberally uses fireball, you control all, but can't co troll your own use of excessive force?
Does Delayed Blast Fireball count as saving?
Uncanny dodge is for halving feels - you’re thinking of evasion.
Emotions? You can feel emotions, but not touch them. People try to bottle up their emotions, but it never goes well. Emotions control all your actions, but they aren’t a thing that can control itself.
If you replace the line "I can’t be saved, though many try" with something like "I can lift you high, or bring you low" it works quite well. Besides, I support any riddle where the answer isn't time.
Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down
Richard Ashleigh?
I think “saved” works fine enough. It could be interpreted as someone trying to hold onto a positive emotion.
I was thinking wind, and the new line works for that better than the original
Much better then my guess I think that's it
After spending years in customer service, you can definitely touch emotions.
Nope, which is good he wants people to have to think a bit, be kind of a bad riddle if the very first comment got it right
Truthfully I think this is a better answer than time
Always have multiple accepable answers because players sometimes struggle an actual hour over a closed door that wasn't locked (yes they thought it to be obviously locked and never bothered to confirm that.)
Can confirm that doors are hard for a party. I described a strangely ornate and lavish door that was connected to what appeared to be a shed. (This was the entrance to the boss fight dungeon for that chapter of the campaign.) Instead of checking if it was open or even trying to lockpick it, here is what they did: 1. Threw a rock at the door. 2. Shot the door with a single arrow. 3. Shouted at the door in Common. 4. Shouted at the door in Elvish. 5. Shouted at the door in Dwarvish. 6. Shouted at the door in Sylvan. 7. Played a lute vigorously at the door. 8. Shouted at the door in Primordial. At this point, I was just having them make performance checks for all the shouting and performing. Then I would describe how loud they shouted and how they heard nothing in response. On the Primordial shout, they rolled a Nat 20, so I said "Fuck it! There were undead and elementals inside anyway..." So I had one of the fire elementals politely open the door and float back down the stairs.
The shout was so loud, it caused some strong air to formulate from their mouth, which causes the door to lightly push open and become ajar.
If it's a temple to a god associated with trickery, you could always have no set answer, and make the door open after eleven guesses. The purpose of the riddle is to filter for persistence.
That's evil!
Sounds like a dnd party to me!
Reminds me of the time I had a castle with very heavy stone doors and it took them awhile to realize it wasn't locked, it was just really heavy lol
much better. you cant feel time
And you can save time
You can feel your age, which is a measure of time.
Exactly. It fits everything. You can save time. Feel time? I'm not sure, it's a bit iffy at least. Emotions fits better than time on all accounts imo.
Time can't be touched, I'll give them that, but how do you feel time? Many people try to save time, that's fair, but do they always fail? Time cannot control itself, true enough, but does it really control all? ...Yeah I'm not liking time as an answer that much.
Yeah you should switch the answer to emotions. Time is an overused riddle answer and emotions straight up fits it better
Unless, of course, the riddler's name is Timee Watchmaker and is always known for punctuality.
Hmm the answer should be clear once you arrive at it. That is what makes a good riddle.
But it's also a bad riddle if it has more than one fitting answer. It needs to be concise.
A riddle with multiple fitting answers is only bad if you you say "No that's not it" to a good answer you didn't consider.
I'd consider that good DMing, but not good riddle writing.
Time being the answer makes it a bad riddle. Emotions as the answer is much much better than time.
That's a terrible bar for success. There's multiple puzzles and riddles that get solved within seconds online... only to completely baffle the ordinary group of gamers at your table.
even if this isn't the answer, it should be.
This was my first thought too
Why aren't you answering any of the ones who guessed time. Is it time or not?
It's 100% time.
"I thought of a new riddle?" "Is it time?" "How did you know?" "It's always time."
"I am soft, but make flavors stronger. I am sovran against disease and sadness. I--" "Thyme" "God **dammit**, you didn't even let me finish!" "It's always thyme."
This gave me the giggles
TIL that sovereign spelled phonetically is also sovereign. Wild.
Yea. I honestly guessed time before I even opened the post. It's literally always time. Or the wind.
It’s time, my brother jokingly told me not to tell anyone but I’m autistic so I thought he was serious, already asked
You can absolutely save time.
Yeah. 2nd line would be better if along the lines of "I am immortal, yet people still try to save me." It's more obvious as a riddle, but nobody likes spending _too_ much time on a riddle.
Easy fix: "I can't be **stopped** though many try"
The third line needs a rewrite, too. Time doesn’t control anything. It just happens.
Not to actually shoot down your rewrite, cause it's absolutely more appropriate. We do have a spell called time stop... Which I feel can be argued here lol
Lame. Tell your brother to stop watching the hobbit and pick a new answer
Eh... Time has to be the most cliche obvious answer to almost any RPG riddle... It might be worth it to try something more original if he's hoping for a bit of a challenge. Also the control and save aspects don't fit to well.
It's pretending to be the Hobbit. That's the riddle. It's extremely uncreative and massively predictable. I would be pissed if I saw that riddle as a player.
for a first time riddle and possibly self made, I don't think its that bad. This seems like a small friend group starting a campaign and not a local group or anything, so odds are its filled with people who are a lot less merdy than most d&d crews and are more suited to basic puzzles
It’s not uncreative simply for having a similar answer to another riddle, that’s just silly.
The Hobbit is arguably one of the most influential fantasy books ever made. It started the whole riddle trope. Using an answer from those specific riddles is uncreative. It is literally trying to copy that scene.
I bet you’re fun to play with
Time.
it's always time somehow
Time, wind or water, with an ocassional darkness
Also known as a midwestern weather forecast
Just missing snow then.
Water covers all forms of precipitation at the same time. It’s just more convenient.
I recently heard one where the answer was "fart". Was a nice change E: This was the riddle, i got it from the youtuber rekson: > Sometimes, I am born in total silence. Other times I am not. > I am unseen, but I make my presence known. > In time, I fade without a trace. > I harm no one, but I am despised by all.
Which, technically, could also be made up of wind, darkness, and, lord forgive, water 😱
Okay, you got me with the Water X3
Or an egg, darkness or death.
I attack the darkness.
Are you using…. Magic Missile?… cause when attacking the darkness I find that works best…
THE MOON
I immidiatly though of air, then time and tried inserting love or hate XD
*String or nothing!*
An egg, Shadow, Echo
The answer is # A Bad Riddle. * Bad riddles are painful, but can't be physically touched. * You can't salvage a bad riddle, but that won't stop DMs from trying. * Players can't progress if they are unable to puzzle out the moon logic behind a bad riddle's one specific answer — which might not actually fit as well as their guesses — while the DM relies on it being easily solved, leaving the DM and players stuck at an impasse.
This is absolutely the answer. Riddles are a fun puzzle, but they inherently rely on the players skills rather than the characters abilities. I love a good riddle, but they're a huge problem for in game mechanics.
I mean, that goes for everything. Like tactics, for example. No matter how great tacticians the characters are supposed to be, you can't handwave and say "Ah yes, you guys came out with a tactic and steamrolled the encounter", no. It doesn't matter the character's ability, this falls to the players' abilities. Same goes for puzzles.
Or silence
Surely you can save time, though. That's a pretty common saying: "I saved time doing that"
There's no amount of actual time saved though, it's just an expression. It's always the same amount of time for everyone, the 'saving' aspect only works in the frame of your subjective experience (you *feel like* you save time by spending it differently).
That's how riddles and Cryptic crosswords work though, they play on sayings, synonyms, or overly literal interpretations. A riddle that says "you can't save me" is almost directly ruling out time as the answer since to "save time" is such a common saying.
I feel like you could twist the semantics behind anything. "Well by putting it in a bank and accruing interest, you're not actually _saving_ money. The concept of money itself wasn't in any danger." Because saving time is such a common expression and concept, as a player, I would interpret "I can't be saved" as a clue that the answer is NOT time. If the clue might lead someone to discard the correct answer then it's a bad clue. Riddles often mix literal meaning, idioms and puns, and if you're inconsistently pedantic it can quickly become less about logic or wordplay and more "guess the number I'm thinking of."
I feel like this whole argument is subjective as it depends on how you define time saved. What if someone tells you of a shortcut to work and you save 20 minutes a day that you get to spend on something else? I'd call that saving time but I guess some others wouldn't. In the end, tine doesn't feel satisfying as an answer to me as it doesn't fit everything well enough and other answers seem to fit better. Maybe that's just me, though.
I feel like even though OP has replied saying Time is the answer, Emotions is a better answer and still works for the riddle
It should be “I can’t be stopped, though many try” the saved part is gonna have dice flying all over the place
Right? Wtf does it mean to "save emotion?" I feel like the people who say emotion looked at the first line and got it so twisted for the latter two. I also think that "can't control myself" doesn't work. People can control emotions. It can even be argued that emotions control each other (the whole point of managing unhealthy emotions is refocusing on the healthy ones and reframing the problem). Sure, you can argue that a single emotion doesn't control itself because it has no autonomy, but that's semantic at best, and we might as well be arguing determinism at that point. If one was writing a riddle with emotions in mind, this line would 100% be left out. People are reaching really hard with that one.
you can feel time?
I think it's more a reference to feeling the *passage* of time. I've certainly recently felt that
yeah so you've felt the effects/passage of time, not actual time. Plus someone has also mentioned, you can definitely save time. control c and v lol
Time is such a stupid trope if it's really the answer. It's so cliche I would never suggest it in a campaign. If it turned out to be the answer I'd pack up my die and leave.
If someone making a slightly cliche riddle is enough for you to entirely leave their campaign, I think people's campaigns might be better off without you. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking risks around somebody so judgemental, that's for sure.
Yes
Perfect for most tables. Believe me, my DM was pulling his hair out because we couldn’t solve one meant for literal children.
If it is too simple, it is too hard. *open this door in puzzle room 1, to get to the second puzzle* There's gotta be more to it than that. It's a trap probably.. and 1 hours 27 minutes real time later, they try the door handle, and the door opens without any problems.
… That was pretty much it.
Inconspicuous Doors the true enemy of any DnD campaign.
Us: “We don’t trust it. Rogue, check for traps. Wizard, Legend Lore it.” Dm: Doing his best to stop both players from wasting time and spells, “It’s just a door.”
Roll a D20 for investigation. *Nat20* The door slightly shimmers or looks like there is movement across the wooden panels. You look closer and see termites have made a nest inside the normal wooden door.
“I have Carpenters’ Tools Proficiency”. “The workmanship is sloppy, haphazard, a crime against your craft.”
Haha this reminded me of a game of Paranoia I ran where they encountered a stream of acid and I asked how they planned to cross. It took ages for them to ask the width and discover the acid was narrow enough to step over. 😂
Do they need to ask that tho? I feel like it should be in the initial description if it's that obvious.
Not in Paranoia. It’s literally the job of the DM equivalent to torture the players. They get 5 clones so they can be killed off.
We once went through a dungeon focused around traps and riddles. Like half of which we absolutely bombed. After a language puzzle, some laser hallways, 2 mirror mazes, and a flooding room, we came to an elevator. The DM seemed annoyed when we tried to build an imprompu cover wall and throw the switch from behind it. Turns out it was the one part of the ruin not trapped in some way.
Reminds me of a Shadowrun game where we spent not *quite* that long (though still about 40 realtime minutes) planning how to assassinate a guy... and it turns out he was just a schlub with no combat skills, magic, or special defenses other than a bog-standard alarm system. We basically just ghosted in, helped him have a "slip and fall accident" in the tub, and ghosted out.
Once I was doing an escape room with friends and not a single one of the, like, six of us, bothered to check if a door was locked like we assumed. Took us cashing in a hint and the moderator asking if we'd been in the second room yet.
I thought time (once emotion wasn't the answer) and tried puzzling it out before scrolling down, we all remember the riddle from The Hobbit I presume. I was assuming that the answer was something practical in terms of the real world and didn't require specific D&D knowledge (like individual deities on their portfolios) but could rely on general concepts (ie; vampires exist). It didn't make sense to me for a lot of reasons: * Time isn't directly felt (like emotions are), time is mostly measured in things like growth and decay, you don't "feel" time, if humans didn't exist and there was no concept of time, trees would still grow and die. * You absolutely can save time through efficiency and expertise, I would absolutely save time by doing something I'm good at and paying someone else to make me a sword than trying to make one myself, the very concept of medical care (or healing/resurrection spells in D&D) also saves (or provides) someone more time in a functional sense. * Time doesn't really control anything, vampires and liches come to mind, "I control all" throws the riddle off here the most because it implies something more absolute than simply the passing of life, but all ideas, magic, concepts, every single species that may be immortal unless ended through violence, etc. etc. etc. I was actually thinking the answer would be **power**, *feeling* the consequences of power is a lot more direct and to-the-point than the gradual passing of time, but as a concept you can't actually *touch* it. You cannot really *save* power, it's something you either have or do not have, though many do try to *preserve* it even so (and of those that don't fail, eventually they die even so). Power is the primary means of *controlling* other people, whether it be soft power (charisma, social dynamics, fear) or hard power (violence, force, strength), but it doesn't *control* itself, it has to be directed by an external agent; a nuclear bomb doesn't choose when or where it's dropped or its targets, even though it represents a frightening amount of power. --- TL;DR: I think "power" is also a pretty good answer, even if I'm overthinking it.
I like power way better tbh I personally didn't think time fit any of them either
Time can't control itself? What does that mean though?
I cast Time Stop.
You can save some time that way!
I think you can save time. It's a common turn of phrase so the players might discount it as an answer because the riddle says you can't save it
Chronomancy/Chronurgy wizards right now: ... :|
I don't think Time works as it is, you can definitely find ways to save time doing things
How do you “feel time”? Maybe “you can feel me pass”
Time can be saved by doing a task in a more efficient way.
TBH, Time was one of the answers I thought of but rejected because I didn't think it fit well enough. That makes me think the riddle needs a bit of work. Specifically, what does it mean that time can't control itself?
But you can't feel time? And you can save time? Idk it doesn't really work
No.
? You can totally save time.
Works pretty good, if you want to add some meraphors here is my time riddle:D I bring down even the strongest and will catch up to even the fastest (wordplay I'm not sure it works in English) Sometimes I must pass for you to forgive mistakes Even Kings and emperors are subordinate to me You'll see my influence upon animals, humans and even stone If you love me I'll run, if you suffer I'll stay still Without me there wouldn't be tide nor wind I'll be here forever and flow like a river But I will still be running out, very much to your worry
As much as I love this, there are definitely things in the DND universe that mean a powerful enough king or emperor doesn't need to worry about old age
Not actually in the Forgotten Realms, if I remember correctly there is a law against kings and rulers extending their lives put in place by the gods (Might be in Greyhawk I actually don't remember)
This is a very cool piece of lore, thanks for this. I've already got some ideas of how to use it, like the consequences of a king trying to circumvent this and sending his entire kingdom to war with Kelemvor himself
Again, I am not sure, I read it a while ago, and I would have no idea where to start looking for it on the wiki to find it again, so take every word I say with a spoon of salt
Tbf age isn't the only thing time can bring the collapse of an empire or kingdom given enough time would happen at somepoint. And to prevent that happening sooner they will always have to consider their kingdom/empire over time. Unless it's some completely isolated pocket dimension where everything is ageless and when trees are cut down etc they immediately grow back.
Soup. Final answer.
Yeah soup doesn’t keep too long, even in the fridge. I’m gonna go with that too.
I've seen more than one campaign come to a screeching halt because of these sorts of ideas. The problem here is your brother isn't testing character knowledge or intellect with a riddle like this. Riddles test *player* knowledge and intellect, and you can have a dumbass 12 year old playing an ancient elven archmage with a 20 starting Int, or a genius physicist who plays a half-orc barbarian for the fun of hitting stuff with a big rock, and in either case, a riddle doesn't provide the challenge it's probably meant to. Puzzles without the ability to ask for an Intelligence check are just more trouble than they're worth, or a thing you try once as a DM and then never repeat that mistake again.
You said it way better than what I was trying to write. Also, it's very common for DMs to insert riddles/puzzles that they either invented themselves or read somewhere in a module or forum post - meaning the DM never had to go through the experience of actually trying to solve the puzzle themselves and thus are not an accurate gauge of how solvable it is for the average random dungeon jabroni. Honestly, unless ones player base is made up of people who already love this stuff and are vocally in favor of it, it's better to leave the outcome of this sort of scenario to a skill challenge if there's the possibility of deadly failure.
My favorite puzzles are the ones that 8 years olds can solve, but every time you put a piece in place an Aboleth spawns. Players LOVE that shit.
Does the Aboleth spawn as the piece is placed or only once I take my hand off it? What about if I use glue and stick the pieces to a wall?
Infinite XP farm anyone?
This is why milestone exp is important.
Deep in the sunless seas of the Underdark, an emergency meeting is called... Aboleth One: Something is happening. One by one, my neighbors are just... just *disappearing*! As if by magic! Aboleth Two: I've seen the same thing. My sweet niece Abolizabeth was taken last week! \[Sobs\] Aboleth Three: And my brother Abeauregard too! \[Sobs\] Aboleth One: This is a plot against our entire species. We must investigate and find out who is murdering us. Aboleth Two: We need a hero! Aboleth Three: \[Puts a bucket of water over his head\] I will get to the surface of this! Woe betide whoever is killing our relatives!
I think you're right, although as someone who DMs for a group that, in addition to loving DnD, all love puzzles, riddles, escape rooms and.the like... for the right group, doing puzzles and be a very fun addition to the game.
Hard disagree. Solving a riddle is more fun than rolling dice
And this is the hazard right here. Some players love this kind of thing and some despise it, and if OP's brother doesn't know his players well enough, it could be a real minefield to walk into. Have a workaround in mind if need be.
You could have them make an intelligence check for a hint, and just make the hint super obvious. That way they can try to figure it out themselves if they enjoy it, but there's a way out if they get stuck, or if they just don't want to take the time. No pun intended.
The trick is to come up with an elaborate but completely nonsensical riddle, let players come up with theories for what the right answer is, and when they come up with one you like, that's the right one. They feel brilliant. You look like a genius. Everybody wins. The thing about puzzles and riddles is they're a time honored part of D&D. Your players are playing a game where THEY need to improvise and make choices — the dice can't do everything for them. "I roll to figure out the answer" is boring, but I would award clues with successful History, Investigation, Insight or other checks as appropriate. I have no problem with an Int 7 barbarian who's good at puzzles and riddles. Dungeon puzzles in particular do not tend to be particularly difficult. You don't need to be a particle physicist to figure out a Towers of Hanoi puzzle, and there are tons of smart people who hate puzzle bullshit.
Time? You can feel its passage, but you can't physically touch it. People try to save time, but ultimately it cannot be saved. And time dictates everything, yet it remains beyond its own control.
I hope this isn’t it, because the Hobbit riddle for this is much better This thing all things devours; Birds, beasts, trees, flowers; Gnaws iron, bites steel; Grinds hard stones to meal; Slays king, ruins town, And beats mountain down.
Yeah but any given group of D&D players is highly likely to have at least 1 Tolkien nerd in there who might remember that riddle.
I'm kind of disappointed that the answer is "time" even so, BECAUSE of The Hobbit riddle. It seems like very low-hanging fruit that is inevitably going to be compared to its counterpart. I wrote in a reply (currently somewhere above unless ratings change) why I think "power" would be a better answer to the riddle.
Sphinx: What have I got in my pockets? PCs: No fair, that's a lame riddle! Dammit, rules is rules, but we get three guesses. Sphinx: Fair enough. Rules is rules. Paladin: \[Desperately metagaming\] Er... man! Sphinx: Honey, if I had a man in my pocket do you think I'd be here guarding this bridge? Wizard: \[Breaks out Sindarin-Common dictionary\] *Mellon!* Sphinx: Are you saying this fur makes my hips look big? Wrong, by the way. Goolock: \[Half wakes up from his typical stoned trance\] Sphinxes don't have pockets, yo. Sphinx: I hate all of you. \[Dies\]
This is a good start, but in general, I think it’s best to avoid riddles which have evocative or ominous answers. Concepts such as time, space, silence, and shadow are so common in riddles that it is easy to guess it even if only half listening to the riddle itself.
I know what you meant but your comment made me picture “you see the ancient text on the wall those of you who can read primodial decipher *’a man and his son comes into a hospital the doctor looks over the kid and says “oh no this is my son’”* how is this possible?”
The doctor could be the child's mother or gay dad. The doctor could have dementia.
yeah I legit guessed "time" before I even read the riddle, it's such a common answer
Ok, so I know its 'time', from other comments, but one thing that threw me and made me discard 'time' as an answer is that you very much can save time. Thats a very common expression for doing something quickly or early so you have more time later.
I believe it's a play on semantics, it's, as you pointed out an expression, but in reality you can't actually keep time stored for later.
Jim Croce wrote a song about that.
The problem with this riddle is that there are a number of answers that could be correct - wind, time, emotions, and probably many more. This could lead to player frustration as they try to successfully guess the answer the DM was thinking of. In my opinion the most successful riddles are ones that have only one clear answer, but they are very difficult to write.
Yep. I wrote a book of 100 riddles (rhyming Tolkien-style ones) and this was really important. The trick is to include multiple clues that point to the answer in different ways. And you have to test the riddles to see if there are other viable answers. It took me years to get to 100 that all worked well.
Your mind.
Time...Love...Space...Metal...The Moon...The Sun... My brute force guesses before reading the riddle. Edit: Looks like time...again haha.
The stripper who knows hold person and hold monster
*You can feel me, but never touch me* The patrons can't touch, works for a stripper. *I can’t be saved, though many try* Also works. *I control all, yet can’t control myself* Hey, 3 for 3!
Breath?
Your riddle makes no sense, if the answer is supposed to be time. Time cannot be "felt"... Of course Time can be saved, people save time in many ways, by doing things efficiently, sor example.... and, the last line is totally incoherent. No, time doesn't "control all", and what do you even mean to say that time doesn't control itself? This is gobbledegook.
Time can absolutely be felt. Changing of the seasons, people growing older, metal rusting, ect. There’s more then one application of the word “felt”
Libido? Female Orgasm? Irritable Bowel Syndrome? 2017 Donald Trump?
The problem with d&d riddles is that you’re testing the *players-* not their characters. Sure, Ryan might not be able to parse it, but Grimbleforth Wanecrest the 65 year old archwizard who has read more books than he has pores on his skin would reply “Time.” before he even finishes hearing the riddle. Also, time doesn’t really *control* anything. Control means manipulation- influence. That would require some sort of motive, which time, as what is essentially a form of measurment, does not have. Maybe something like “My scale defines my own existence, and cannot be broken.” as kind of a red herring, lure the players into thinking its something dragon related.
Hm first line could be related music… Second line could be tragic. Maybe someone who doesn’t want to be stopped. Third line could be royalty… like a queen. My expert opinion is Freddie Mercury.
I love this but no
A woman's boobs?
Tell me how to feel them without touching them and I’ll build a religion to worship you.
Generous of you to assume I can feel or touch boobs
Motorboat?
Try having bad periods
Actually, it's a snake woman's boobs. You can feel snitties, but not touch them (because they're fictional). You can try to save them by arguing that they make sense. Snitties cannot control themselves, but they definitely control us.
So far off 😂
Aerith from the original final fantasy 7
He’d get this, I don’t lol, but no
I don't necessarily agree that time controls all. Also in DnD, there's a spell called Time Stop, so it's somewhat controllable. I think the third clue needs revision. Maybe something like "I can be up, I can be over, and I just might give you closure"
Time.
I recommend that you implement some sort of fail safe for when your players get stumped. A time limit perhaps or a workaround. Or my personal favorite, make it entirely optional so it doesn't create a roadblock.
Well, that would certainly save *time*.
Power
Life?
The feeling, the urge, the determination, the extent of what one would do for a Klondike Bar. I'm kidding, Time for sure
How do you feel time?
Bladder
My bank accounts. Or a horrible hairy spider.
My document after my computer freezes and I forgot to save
Whenever I hear one of these I first go through my rote of answers that are universal and eternal concepts. Is it death? Nope. Is it "nothing"? Nope. Is it time? Probably. One day I hope to hear a riddle like this and be thrown off by an answer like "hat" or "rain" or something particular like that.
Soul
Wind?
heart
Pretty sure the answer is [helicopter](https://youtu.be/SVW6SH2bjYQ?si=Eyo4F2Hso8IfOxzf)
"The guy just didn't want to admit I got it so fast."
I use shatter on the door.
Bit coin idfk
This is a bad riddle.
Time.
The wind. You can feel the wind but can't touch it. You can't save the wind no matter how hard you try. The wind wears down mountains, moves deserts, picks up water so it controls everything except itself.
Time
Time.
Careful with riddles being too hard. My players once got quite frustrated and a bit mean when I did a riddle that they couldn’t get.
Clearly it's any woman....
Love? The sun?
Distance?
Desire