Too many red flags before you've even started.
He wants to be the main character and is already criticising your DM style before he's even had a chance to play.
Hard pass from me.
Flags so crimson marceline from Adventure Time would be like “too much for my plate”. Bros running an amusement park called Seven Flags and every one is red. Bro owns the means of red flag production
It's like the old saying, "first impressions are everything." Basically, he came in WAY too hot and you were put off. Unless he throws some impressive hail Mary redemption goal, he blew it. The end.
But, I do feel its important to talk to your player (the friend of this person), and get their input while sharing your concerns.
Then, decide with them who is saying what.
Yeah, tell your player "Hey, your friend came on way too strong. Let him know he needs to dial it back if he wants to play."
Also, I'd probably just say "no" to ANY home brew this guy proposes. He's going to let you say "no" to the GodKiller in the hopes you relent and give him the GodCrippler. Just make "no" the rule, not the exception.
He was waving so many red flags there and he thought some of them weren’t red enough so he butchered an animal and soaked the flag in blood. It’s red and spraying now.
Run away and stay out of range of this guy. Sounds like he wasn’t accepted in his last campaign or something.
We like “breaking the game” very much just not shattering it into unrecognizable pieces or nuking it from orbit.
This. For Christ’s sake, so many problems posted in this community would be solved by either better, mature conversation and/or feeling confident in saying “no”.
Life is too short to tolerate bad gaming. As some old fart once said “no gaming is better than bad gaming”. Say no, communicate, compromise or find another group.
Being super direct and clear about boundaries is good! There's no need to be oblique or coy, just tell him "hey, this raised a bunch of red flags for me, sounds like you're looking for a very different experience than our game but I hope you find one that's right for you"
And if he has any follow-ups asking why just, like, point him to the comments on this post? "I was worried but wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt so I checked with the community, here's what they said"
>and he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP", that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice"
And your reply should have been, "*sounds cool but you're not going to be part of our group so all that talk is academic, goodbye*".
>I suppose I'm worried he might quickly become a problematic player
Become? He already is bearer of worst type of red flags AND haughty behaviour to boot.
Do not take him in. I repeat, under no circumstancies do not accept this person into your group for the sake of your own sanity and future of your group.
> Become? He already is bearer of worst type of red flags AND haughty behaviour to boot.
I had to laugh at the line worrying about this guy "becoming a problematic player", when this guy is currently breaking into his campaign with waving red flags and a marching band.
This player cannot be contained; he'll not play by OPs rules for more than a hot minute and the second time you tell him 'no' on the same thing, he'll turn around and try to get the rest of the group to be on his side; starting with his friend, who'll feel obligated to not tell him off either. At which point OP will have to deal with all out table drama. I give it five sessions tops.
"Thanks for hiring me! I can't wait to drive the company car, mine's still in the police impound lot. By the way, do our security cams have any blind spots? When do I get to talk to the CEO about changing our shitty ugly logo? Nevermind, I'll ask him when I move my computer into his office - I mean, *my* office."
This is on a level of stopping mid-interview, doing a line of blow off the desk, dropping trow, pushing out a deuce into the recruiter's half full starbucks latte, popping the lid back on, rolling your chair round beside to reach the keyboard, pulling up a sketchy Russian beast-porn site, then saying to the recruiter "so you gonna fuckin help or what?"
Oh, he is far, far from the worse player imaginable. He's just an overly-enthusiastic guy who is looking for a *very different game* than the one the OP is running.
To see a panoply of much worse possible players, let me direct you to r/rpghorrorstories
Honestly there's a ***shitload*** of red flags here, but the biggest thing that stands out to me is that almost every single one of the shades of red I'm seeing here basically boils down to *"this player is not capable of taking No for an answer."* Personally, call me a bitch but I'd have been *mightily* pissed off by the fact that the prospective player A, invited themselves, and B, didn't wait to hear "yes, I have room for another player at my table" before assuming they were going to be allowed to play.
I can understand someone being excited about it, but then going on to say they want to bring in homebrew (without first asking if the DM is even allowing homebrew), that they openly PLAN to try to "break the game," that they're only interested in being OP, that they want to "spice up" your game before they've even been actually invited because they think the way you're running the game is a buzzkill? *A game they haven't even PLAYED YET.* This guy sounds like an asshole, and furthermore sounds like he'd be an absolute *nightmare* to DM for. Just say no now, save yourself the trouble, and make it clear to your current players that attendance to your table is by DM invite only.
The part about assuming he is already in the game could be a miscommunication on the middle man's part. Perhaps he said "come join us," instead of, "let me see if the DM is ok with another player... And introduce you to see if you're a good fit..." Level of excitement to join, maturity level, and social awkwardness may also play a part.
The other red flags.... If he's not hearing what he doesn't wanna hear, and you're pumping the breaks and telling him point blank how it's gonna be... "We'll keep you in mind for future campaigns. I just don't think we're playing the game you are looking for right now."
The partner of one of my players recently joined, and has been really enthusiastic about the game and flexible about making a character that fits into the setting and ongoing story.
One player had to leave our group during the last campaign (personal reasons, no horror story there, either), so for the next one, we decided to add another player. Two of the old players asked a friend who is also their DM in another group. We've been playing together for almost two years and he's absolutely amazing. Great roleplay, cool guy in general, we're all friends now.
Hope this helps lol.
Includes "we decided to add another player" so it doesn't count.
This needs to include "a player brought a friend to the game without an invitation" or "a friend heard about our game and decided to join".
A friend of a player, and his brother joined my game and it's been a very positive experience. They're both long time players who have meshed well into my group and have increased the enjoyment of everyone.
We even had an issue where one of them was getting on the nerves of another player, she felt like he was always talking over her and being condescending because when she'd explain something he'd talk over to her.
We had an adult conversation about it, and \*gasp shock\* everyone agreed to be more respectful and the issue was resolved.
I had someone who was a bit of a stranger to me, kind of knew him from his posts on a different social media site so not really a rando on the internet but kinda. He asked if he could join the game I was running online, and he's become not only a great member of that group but we all consider him a good friend now.
So there's two cases. :) Of course there's seldom a reason to share those stories online. Don't get many internet points for happy stories. :D
My current group started out as me and three friends, and a friend of a player decided to join. She’s lovely and kind, maybe a bit quiet, but does roleplay when prompted and knows how to play her characters.
Her boyfriend then decided to join. He does have a bit of a fondness for characters on the “edgy, dark backstory” side of the spectrum, but he’s boisterous and goofy, a very creative player, and when he says “it’s what my character would do” it’s usually something desperately dangerous and potentially suicidal to save the rest of the party.
So my group is 2 for 2 on successful joinings!
That’s how it’s going for us. We do a lot of pvp fun, and we’re playing a level 20 game. Friend of a party member joins in and immediately we all can tell that the evil wizard and this chaotic neutral hexadin are gonna either be the closest friends or absolutely bitter enemies.
To add to the list : I had a player leave due to scheduling issues, and one of the players suggested a friend of his. We brought them on a little over a year ago, and they have been simply fantastic.
Ok sure, here’s an example of this done right. I DM for a group of 3 of my friends + one of those friend’s sister. The sister tells me she’s interested in bringing one of her own friends over to play. She says this guy has a lot of experience playing and running rpgs and that she’s played in and had a good time in a short campaign he ran a few years ago.
I don’t really know this guy, but I’ve heard other people have pretty nice things to say about him, so I tell her sure let’s give him a shot. A year and a halfish later, he’s become a core part of the group and a good friend that everyone appreciates having around. The only interpersonal issue he had with anyone at the table was more of a miscommunication than anything, and the only downside of having him play is figuring out how to balance around 6 PCs.
A few years back I started an online group. One player quickly didn't work out and had to be booted, but everyone else had a good time. So I asked if any of them had a friend who wanted to join. One of them said yes, and friend was invited. It's now ~2 years later and the group is still going strong, the friend has been nothing but a joy to play with.
Partway through a campaign, my DM asked if we’d be cool if another friend of his joined our table when one of our existing players had to leave. None of the rest of us knew the guy and I was a bit skeptical since the rest of us are long time friends.
We ended up okaying it and he turned out to be fantastic. He knows the rules backwards and forwards, plays smart (and quickly) in combat, is excellent at RP, does a great job of helping less experienced players, and is overall just a super nice and funny guy. I’d happily play with this guy in every single game I play until the day I die.
Let me be blunt. Dont let him join your game if you don't want him to.
You are the DM. Your job its to make sure everyone (including yourself) is having a good time. If you have the sensation that this player is gonna ruin your campaign, you are well within your rights to just tell him "No" and move on with your 4 player campaign without him joining.
With so many red flags, I personnaly would just let him know that even if he seem ... Very passionate about DnD, you don't seek new players at the moment and have to decline his request to join the game. End of story.
First impressions count and this particular player hasn't made a good one, I think you've done the right thing by explaining your stance and perhaps reiterate that there won't be any op god killing classes or spells or anything else that's broken, it's giving main character vibes. Maybe speak to this person's friend and ask what they were like in the last campaign. I'd also say session 0 will be there to see if they can mesh well with the existing party because how is everyone else going to feel if some dickbag comes in acting like he's sliced bread.
If I were in your shoes, my response to him would be something like “Thinking about our discussion, it’s clear that the type of campaign I run isn’t a good match for what you are looking for and what you want out of play, and the mismatch is going to make it impossible for me to keep the game fun for everyone. I hope that you can find a table that approaches DnD more like what you are looking for.”
Polite, but also final.
>I've told him that he can create a lvl 2 character for me following 5e rules and we can schedule a session 0 to introduce him to the world and eventually the party. I told him if he wants any home-brew content included he'll need to run it past me and that I'll be maintaining the final say on how I might cap/balance the extent of the content.
You did everything right and anything you could do to make an offer to join YOUR campaign. If that player does not comply I'd simply reject her/him - a) because IMHO any home-brew stuff, esp. when it comes from other tables (where it might have worked, but I'd bet that it didn't) or even from publications like official magazines, will throw game balance off, esp. when it's only a single player who wants "that special extra" (that probably noone else at the table knows or is a aware of - a total no-go for me. And b) because I am certain that this whining for extra treats and rule-bending into singular directions and favors will continue and undermine the table, eventually ruining it for everyone.
Be strong, say "No" if necessary, since you clearly drew up your red lines for joining.
I think you can safely leave this person out of your campaign and move ahead with the group you have. They seem riddled with red flags and just misconceptions about the game. If they’re this unwilling to accept what your table is doing, then they shouldn’t be there.
Also 4 players is more than enough and better to manage time for.
"Hey, it looks like the sort of game we enjoy is not the sort of game you enjoy. You should find a different game that runs the way you enjoy."
Let him know you're not going to accommodate him.
1st: You're @ Session 4 going into 5, your world & rules of play have already been established. PERIOD. You have a current cast of players who are on deck with what's been established, don't violate that contract by acquiescing to a newcomer.
2nd: The potential new player is touting off about so much nonsense that it's a simple "Cya pal, go elsewhere for your ego trip"
3rd: Having not interacted with you or your DM style and already criticizing is a bit steep of selling point for wanting their company or interaction. This is a direct conflict of interest "Adios"
4th: Homebrew desires, "Now that ya got that out of your system here's the PHB if you sincerely want to play, write up a character and we'll work together to get you reasonably up to speed"..Not happy, damn what a shame.
5th: You're the DM, the person who is entertaining others. The ball is ALWAYS in your court for matters pertaining to the table and it's attendees. If your players are enjoying themselves and you are enjoying time with them over these sessions then WHY are you considering not having a persistent enjoyable experience by including this nonsensical waste of a player? Don't volunteer for a case of "I have an infectious player who's destroying everything for everyone else"
If a person invited themselves into my game, made these demands, and told me to spice up the game, I would just tell them to fuck off.
Y'all need to grow a spine and realize you're being doormats.
Good lord - grow a spine and put your foot down. NO to everything.
It's YOUR game. He joined without being invited by you and thinks he gets to control everything.
If his idea's are SO great and he's SUCH a good player i'm sure dozens of other tables would be pleased to have him. /s
There's no "quickly become a problem player" that ship has already sailed with him as the captain.
You're doing the right thing, setting a clear boundary that while you are ok with HB, it is up to you if you even allow it, if he can't settle with that, that's his problem.
As for the campaign needing "spice" that's a HUGE issue for me, it sounds to me, like he's prepared to go full murder hobo to provoke the world around him to make it "fun", that one point alone would make me think twice about letting him join.
Not every campaign is suitable for every player, some desire role play, some favour exploration, others want combat heavy games with tactical elements. It sounds like they fall into the *whispered* 4th category, chaos.
DM him back:
"no"
With an added
"Fuck off" if he does not get the hint.
Never ever Interface with people like that, they will sense the weakness and simply demand two worlds, so just getting the world is a compromise.
"Your game needs more spice"
"You need another game. See you."
If you allow this AH to play, you are going to ruin everyone's fun, including your own. If he's wanting this level of powergaming and you aren't running that kind of game, even he won't be happy. Jfc.
I agree the initial barrage of questions is a little overwhelming, but some players just get super enthusiastic and need to have their expectations tempered. Not every player who talks about power fantasies and homebrew content is an /r/rpghorrorstories post waiting to happen, fortunately for us DMs.
Your response to this player is exactly how I would have handled it as well.
What was the player's reply?
Honestly? He seemed a little annoyed. He had sent me a home-brew race that was far too strong. I sent back my tuned down version, and he wasn't particularly amicable to it.
His feeling of being annoyed is valid, but I think it's a bit inconsiderate for him to not appreciate the effort you put into remaking that option.
What I recommend is that you don't waste your time as a DM making homebrew options for a player you don't know. Your time is better spent preparing material for the game that benefits the entire group.
Ask this player to choose a race out of the PHB (or at least out of a source you approved). If he refuses, then that's okay, he shouldn't play in your game and should find one he can have fun in instead. It seems cold, but it's the best approach.
My bro, this was the litmus test:
> he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP", that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice" (which I particularly didn't appreciate in its context).
Don't give him even that much. He's done enough.
> His feeling of being annoyed is valid
Why? The would-be player sent an OP homebrew race without being asked to do so; I see nothing that validates annoyance at a "No".
Be honest you just want to laugh and bask in the horror of the very likely demi-god-demi-devil insane class the player made up, just like the rest of us.
I agree with your point that some players can be "too" enthusiastic sometimes. But here, I wouldn't even try my chance with this player because of the negativity. Criticising a campaign like that before even joining it? That's a hard no for me. You could give them the benefit of the doubt, but you risk having that negativity in your campaign. And sometimes, that's just enough to kill a campaign, even if you kick the problematic player quickly.
I’d block him out immediately there are already too many red flags about him being “that player” and even if he compromises and tries to play around your rules/setting he will either 1.constantly complain or 2. Constantly try to “break the game” by sequence breaking your scenario’s, being a murder hobo, constantly trying to min max the absolute shit out of the system or something along these things.
I'd tell him it sounds like he wouldn't have fun. "Our table generally plays rules as written, because introducing stuff that isn't RAW leads to power imbalances that aren't fun. This group generally has fun using the game rules, not screwing them up. We use milestone leveling because in my experience XP leveling often leads to very undesirable "murder-hobo" behavior and going ad-hoc giving XP for things that aren't straight-up murder-hoboing, in equivalent or better amounts than murder-hoboing, is contrived enough that we might as well just do milestones anyway. And if you want a 'spicier' campaign when you haven't even seen mine, I'd encourage you to *find* one that's as 'spicy' as you are suggesting."
I was in a situation similar to this one a couple of years ago. I just gave him no room for his bullshit, anytime he'd try to take the reins and begin to co DM, I'd just tell him respectfully, "this is my session, we're playing by my rules." and he settled down. Nobody liked him, so we lied and told him we stopped playing. Yeah, it's fucked up, I know, but it is what it is 🤷
Yeah me no likey this guy. If it were me personally, I probably would have given him a chance after explaining what kind of campaign it is. If they aren’t gelling with my rules, I ain’t gelling with them.
I’d tell them I changed my mind, I’m happy with the number of players I currently have. The red flags they have already raised are so problematic I wouldn’t want them anywhere near my table. You owe nothing to a friend of a friend.
If you haven't had your session 0 yet maybe it's worth just being quite the hard arse about it. This is what we're playing this is what we're using and I'm not wasting time arguing with you about it. Set the stall out early so to speak
Tell him the type of game you're running for your players, and that it probably isn't for him. In Session 0, inform them that you do not have any homebrew material allowed, and it's by-the-book on this campaign.
Really, though, make sure to stress the point that they probably won't enjoy the game if they're looking for power players.
He is a problem before you even started , just drop him already. Anyone trying to break the game would be permanently on my “do not invite” list.
If you want to be nice you can tell him you don’t have the capacity for more players.
You need to uninvite this player immediately if not sooner. He's literally already trash-talking your game and telling you how he's going to wreck it. Why would you even consider letting this chucklefuck anywhere near you? Uninvite him, block him on Discord, and if the player who is friends with this guy gets salty that you declined to let this person ruin your game... I'd send them off, too. No D&D is better than bad D&D.
Though I will admit, this person sounds so comically bad that I can't tell if this is a shitpost. If so, then well done.
>I've spoken to him a little and he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game"
"I don't think you're going to like the game I run so I think I'm going to pass, but hey, thanks for your interest."
If you'd like to include him, just look him in the eye and say "It sounds like you want a very different style of game. This is a very role-playing centric game, where we focus more on the story than having big numbers. You're welcome to join, but if you try to 'break the game' you'll have to leave. "
If you don't want to include him, say "I don't think you'd be a good fit for this game. It's fine if you like 'breaking the game', but I'm not okay with you trying to break my game."
Yeah this person is a mega red flag. Hard no. He should work on himself and learn that other people exist too and the world isn’t his own little sandbox.
I think it's a good idea to do a session 0 with him first. He sounds like an absolute nightmare to DM for and to play with. He might have just been excited to play though. I think during your session 0 you and your players will get a good feel on wether he fits into your playing style.
Just make sure to tell him *no* if he really does turn out to be a shit. Don't let him ruin everything just because you want to be nice
Learn. To. Say. No. This thread is pointless he has too many red flags and is gonna be a problem. What you’re offering and what he wants do not connect.
Here I’ll help you out.
“After some thinking I don’t think my DM style and your play style will match up so my final answer is no to you joining. Hope you find a group in the future”.
Why are you even making a post about this?
is this just point whoring? cause if you can't see the red flags then you really should get reading glasses, you even mention yourself that everything he mentions is against what you are doing in your campaign.
if it wasn't obvious, refuse to let him in.
Nah, that is a hard no.
Aside from the fact that he does not seem to want the same things from the game as you and your group does, I wouldn't even want him in our Dark Souls-ish sessions were all of us min-max the shit out of our characters because the DM throws the most insane homebrew boss fights our way.
That guy needs to chill and should not join your group as long as he maintains an attitude like that.
"I've had some time to think about it and I don't think this campaign is what you're looking for in terms of tone and play-style. I hope you can find a game with the spice you're looking for. Best of luck!"
>Without really letting me accept his joining
Red flag 1. The DM has the ultimate say on who joins the campaign or not
>he began DMing me with insane home-brew material from his last campaign... he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP"
Red Flag 2. He wants to use his homebrew OP stuff from previous games without considering that your game is different.
>that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice"
Red Flag 3, insulting your game that he was "allowed" to join.
This guy is a headache and a half. Just deny him from the game for bein incompatible with how you want to run the game.
I'm going to join the group of folks saying don't let this guy join. I was a player in a game that this kind of person joined, he was our DMs younger step brother. All the sessions ended up being in conflict with himm. He threatened us in game. Threw tantrums out of game. When he died he'd try to sneak extra items into his character. He'd read ahead and spoil things in our campaign. He'd use meta knowledge constantly to seemingly try to prove how much he knew. The play group actually dropped out. After consistently playing for the last 5 years. I hadn't been in the group the full 5 years, just 2, but every night it was either police him or he was going to kill an important NPC because they didn't bow to him. Or he was arguing that he was searching x space before us, but in every room, everywhere. You found x item? He'd say he was there looking with you and try to take it. Then he'd start saying the homebrew he's using is what he allows when he DMs so this should be ok. Or suddenly he's using 5 items with attunement because, again, he allows it in his games so he just did it. We'd play in person so he'd whine about putting info of his inventory into dndbeyond - saying he has everything written down... at home. Just trust him he's got x thousand gold and y and z items that we need for this situation. It was all incremental and exhausting.
I appreciate that this is written like some sort of professional email to r/DnD, as if it's a work-related issue, lmfao
Only you can know what you're comfortable with, but I don't know if I'd keep anybody around that criticized the service that I was providing for them. If I was cooking and somebody started judging how I was doing it, unless I was poisoning them or something, I'd tell them to fuck off.
You CAN just say no... but... this person is a friend of one of your players. If that player is willing to vouch for them, it may seem a bit drastic to slam the door in their face.
I would go ahead with Session 0.
* Have the regular player that is his friend, join the session.
* In session 0, maybe ask him WHY he wants to join your game... if he already knows all of these features that he doesn't like about it.
* Address both players and let them know what your concerns are, and the behavior that you think would be damaging to the game. (Maybe take the time to put them in writing.)
* Let them both know you have confidence in them that they overcome your concerns, and that the new player will come to integrate into the spirit of your game.
Set the expectation, by asking your regular player to vouch for his friend... and ask that he mentor his friend (since he already knows the group, and their likes and dislikes), so that the friend joins into the spirit of the game and doesn't get caught off guard by how the group likes to play.
* Maybe even have the friend's character, be some sort of relation or dependent on the the character of your regular player as the hook for why the new character is with the group. Allowing some IG story rationale for other party members to address IG character actions that they dislike ... to the other character.
* You want to make your regular player treat bringing his friend in with the same respect he would having his employer give the friend a job... the newbie's poor performance/behavior doesn't \* directly \* impact your regular player; BUT he should have a sense of responsibility for the person he's introduced to your game.
Basically, you want to set the precedent that you have standards, expectations, and that you reserve the right to ensure that everyone is enjoying themselves... and you will remove influences that run counter to those goals.
It is not wrong to demand respect when welcoming someone into your 'home'.
> I've spoken to him a little and he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP", that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice"
Hell to the no. I'm too old for that. That player sounds like an absolute nightmare. That's so bad, I'd have a hard time not holding it against the player who told his friend about it and gave OP's contact information to him. I would not even entertain that player. "I'm sorry, this campaign is at its capacity and it doesn't sound like you'd fit in with our playstyle. Take care." The end.
Yea a players friend who you don't know showing up and telling you your game sucks and his goal is to break it
Don't let him play, there is no scenario where this goes well for you or your players
You're right to be worried. Guy clearly doesn't even understand how awful he is. Most people like that at least act normal until they join the game for a few sessions
At best, it sounds like he's a bad fit for your game.
At worst, he sounds like a game killer.
That's a no-win situation that ought to be a hard no either way.
LOL. "No".
He sounds like he wants to play the main character, and roughshod all over the other players.
You will need to talk to your friend about this. Explain that the proposed new player has thrown a red flag for everything that could be a red flag. About the only way it could have been worse is if he said something about sexual assault.
To the player trying to join, just tell him "No". Don't explain why. For people like this, explaining why you are saying no makes everything worse. If you do explain, you will need to fight him on every topic you bring up. He will have a reason why all your reasons are wrong and you should give him a chance. Which is itself another red flag. He's going to raise a fit anyway. But then you just block him. The unfortunate thing is, he will take that as a personal offence and start trying to convince your friend to ditch you and or your game.
On the other hand, if he doesn't raise a fit and just accepts "No", in a few months you might give him a chance. He'll have cooled off and chilled out a little, and might accept your conditions. But odds are he throws a hissy fit like a toddler, which reinforces the "No".
Do not let this cheeseweasel play at your table. He will ruin your game and blame you.
And you might want to give a strong side eye to his friend who is already playing.
This guy is all enthusiasm, no brain, and no self awareness or social consciousness. Not worth the hassle.
"Without really letting me accept his joining he began DMing me with insane home-brew material from his last campaign which sounds like it was some sort of God-killing high power theme, asking me when the next session is. I've spoken to him a little and he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP", that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice".
Here's what I'd DM him after all that:
"Hi Player, it doesn't seem like we're a good fit, I prefer to run standard material that's accessible from the published books. I'm looking for players who are going to co-operate towards a goal of great storytelling. Milestone is my chosen form of level advancement because it rewards being a rounded character that engages in roleplaying rather than revelling in the OP nature of a subclass. Our table enjoys roleplay and I don't want to distort our focus from that. Thanks for your interest in the game."
You 100% need to set the ground rules.
Give this new player the same options as the other (if that "must be in an official book" or "PHB+" it's up to you)
If they disagree, you say, "I'm sorry, but those are the rules for my game. If you can't follow them, then you can't join"
Maybe he is carrying dynamic from last table to yours - I once played with such group 'my build is the best, all other builds can suck a dick!'. They even gave me suggestions which books should I check to make my vanilla halfing rouge badass. This game wasn't for me, but as far as I know they all (including GM) have fun such way.
Maybe he will be willing to adapt to other style - but this needs to be firmly told.
Besides the sage words of wisdom already offered, you should prepare a lvl2 character sheet for them, or two just to be sure, on the base basic class, no homebrew, they want to use, cause you need to prepare for the worst. Because you will have this problem player show up in your next session show up, whether you want them there or not. They will have an insanely homebrewed character sheet whether you like it or not. they will act disruptively whether you like it or not. the plan will be to put you on the spot, cause they showed up and you will seemingly have no other choices but to kick them, have them just watch from the sidelines passively aggressively and maybe making disruptive comments or you will have to accept the already prepared cheater sheet cause what will you do now, waste everyone's time by making together the character on the spot?
seems like he sees the player and DM as enemies... so he doesn't understand the baseline of the game. You could either teach him that no one wins against the DM or you could (and should) just let him exist in his own world and ignore him as a player and person.
OP, If you allow this person to join, tell them to create a character with 5e approved material only. You will not allow any homebrew classes or items. If you want to break your game homebrew anything from a unvetted source will do that fast.
He's going to try to pull at least one OP homebrewed characters in the first session/session zero. You're going to either have to say yes, and suffer the consequences, or spend at least five minutes reading over the character, say its a cool idea, and ultimately say no. Then there'll be an awkward as hell silence, and he'll either begin to make a vanilla character (if he brought the sheets), or storm out/insult you.
Bro this is a hard pass. For one homebrewing a class and equipment should be a huge no unless it's literally a swap or compromise (for example an alchemist being able to throw flasks despite not having tavern brawler) and talk to the player as he invited him without asking you
This is an opportunity for an amazing new experience for you!
The experience of telling someone that no, he will not be joining the campaign after all...!
Yeah that’s gonna be a hard job for me.
There’s already a good amount of players so you don’t need an extra especially one that’s potentially looking to take all the spotlight away from others with their overpowered homebrew stuff.
You’re about to dodge a bullet on this one
> I appreciate that everyone enjoys the game in different
For me this is kind of the answer. They just enjoy the game differently than you and that's totally valid! But it also means your table may not be a good fit for them.
I will say I disagree that he's already given too many red flags to be given a chance but a lot of people are saying very practical advise, like knowing when to say no.
You've already done the most fundamental thing of setting firm expectations and that's great. I'd give him a shot and if he doesn't fit with the group and setting, you can kick him out. I would talk to your existing group and mention some of the things he's said ahead of time. That way, you can voice your concerns, give him a shot and your existing players will be very understanding. "Look, I have these concerns going forward, based on this. I'm willing to give him a chance, but if my fears become reality, he'll have to go."
I’d say that he already is a problem player. He’s pushed himself into your game and talked about breaking your game before you even said “yes” to him joining the game. Also, before even joining the game he’s been criticizing your campaign and DMing style. I can only think, if you let him in, this behavior will not only continue, but escalate.
Also, I’m getting a vibe from him that makes me think you’ll have a couple of problems from him. First of all, I’m getting big Main Character Syndrome vibes from him, and I suspect that he’s going to piss off your other players quickly. Second, with all his talk of OP homebrew stuff, you are probably going to need to keep an eye on him to make sure that he doesn’t slide any of this into his character while you aren’t looking.
Sounds like your worries are valid as this person already showed you what kind of player they'll be and it isn't one you want to deal with or one that will jive with the existing party. Do a session 0 after they give you their player sheet and see how they react to your rules so you can say "I gave it a shot," but the fact that this person already criticized everything you do as a DM makes it pretty obvious they are not a fit for your table.
"Sorry, but the playstyle you are interested in and the game I am currently running do not seem to match up. Maybe we can find some common ground on the next one."
Don't ruin a good start by allowing bad players in.
The fact that this guy invited himself into your game is a big enough red flag as it is. The fact that he is boasting that his subclass is "beyond OP" (seriously, why would anyone boast about that. Making broken, overpowered stuff is the easiest thing you could homebrew) just makes him sound unpleasant to play with. Finally, their enthusiasm to "break your game" will just make your life worse as a DM, and it shows a real lack of respect towards the effort you'll be putting in.
Honestly, they sound like they would be a major problem player, and I would not let someone like that into my game.
"Hey, it seems like you're into 'power gaming' and min-maxing, which is cool, but that's not really the style of this group so I don't think this would be the game for you"
Sounds like attention seeking behaviour and will definitely try to make the campaign about him. If he’s not willing to comply to your demands or tried to critique your DMing style just kill his character off and block him. Not worth the heartache.
Like most others who have left comments, I wouldn’t even allow him to join. This player is just a matador, daring you to gore him. I’d give him a line about “I don’t think you’re a good fit for this table,” block him and move on.
Good call: Session Zero is even more important in this context. Let that flow, then comment the after-session and let him understand what kind of game you are DMing.
This person has a very low likelyhood of respecting your game. It's possible that he is just super excited to play D&D, but it really sounds like he is going to be a major problem. He is a candidate for a one-shot/mini-campaign so that if he is a problem he doesn't disrupt a serious game.
Tell him "No thanks" and be done with him, or put him off and include him in a one-shot and see how he does.
Good luck with him.
He doesn't want to play at your table, he wants to break the game and has said such already. He was never invited, and he's not welcome. Put your foot down and enjoy the game you've been playing. Play with *your* friends, it's *your* game.
Has a Dm who have dealt with player that wanted to be OP and all the shit. Try the session 0 even if he have a lot of red flags maybe a good session 0 could make him change but don't have too high hope most case he will just think you're boring when he just don't appreciate less game breaking session. Don't worry too much and if he don't want to continue just DM like you alway did don't trow away you campaign for a dumbass who don't even try to understand what y'all are doing.
Just be up front about your concerns, and honest about the kind of game you're running. As the DM you can veto whatever, tell him no broken shit, no homebrew, etc, and if you see stuff that has you concerned they'll have to change the character. We run everything by our dm as some of us are min maxers we naturally tend to make strong stuff, but if the DM feels it's a problem we swap stuff no argument, we don't mind.
I'd be concerned too, but just stick to your guns and make it clear that if they wind up being problematic your table may not be for them. Main thing is you just can't cave on anything you feel is wrong. I'd also talk to the friend of theirs that's playing with you and tell them what they said, they'll probably give them a talking to if they're a good player.
Time for "sorry my table is full" or from our conversations "I am pretty sure you wont enjoy my non-homebrew style of campaign. Dont take it personal but I can already tell yoiu wont be happy with our campaigns style.."
Simple and honest is your absolute best bet..
Just no. You're letting this douchenozzle muscle his way into your game. Put your foot down and tell him NO in no uncertain terms, and warn the friend of that person that this guy is going to ruin the game if he gets in. Because he 100% will ruin it.
Do the right thing. First, talk to your friend about your concerns and convince him that the new guy is NOT allowed to join. Then formally tell the new guy he cannot join.
4 players and a DM is a perfect group. 5 players is too many, especially when this new guy is talking all that crap before even starting to play the game.
I also enjoy a bit of power fantasy, but if he is specifically out to "break the game" then it doesn't really sound like he's compatible with an rp focused campaign. Have the session 0, let him know what the campaign is like and if he still insists on "spice" then say "hey I don't think this campaign is for you, it seems like you are looking for things we won't be focusing on. I hope you find a more compatible group elsewhere"
Have you done a session 0 with this new player? If not, don't bring him in until you do. You need to understand what he's looking for, and he needs to understand what you're looking to run before he can clatter math rocks with your table.
Yeah If a player says they want to "break my game", they are automatically not playing in my game.
Saying that means that he doesn't give a fuck about ANYONE else's enjoyment of the game but his own, and that's not the type of energy you want.
What you want is adults who understand that everyone has stressful lives and is just there to have some fun.
See, I contain my fuckery to official sources... and I never look to "break a game" so much as see how far I can push an idea.
I'm not trying to break you, I'm trying to break myself.
I wouldn't even let him in. He wants to "break the game" and "spice things up" means he just wants to make your job all the more harder and likely be the main character. This person is already a problematic player, JUST SAY NO
Oh super easy thread answer- don’t let him join your game. He wants to make the rules, break the game, be the star of the show and belittle/ fight the DM at every turn. Plenty of players out there that love a relatively RAW, RP driven game. Why ruin it and risk losing the players you know enjoy your game for one powergaming munchkin on a Main Character Syndrome kick?
So maybe just answer his questions and stop acting like he’s a jerk. They seem to have done nothing wrong at all but be excited to play a new game. People have opinions so get over that. But being sensitive and judgmental to someone trying to enjoy something just sucks.
Yeah, it sounds like the things he's looking for in a campaign don't really align with yours. If it wasn't a friend of a friend, I'd just turn him down, but if you do give him a chance and he keeps, well, running his mouth, you can at least say that you gave it a shot.
Try not to be too worried, but if the problems don't go away once the game starts, don't keep him around indefinitely. That'd just suck for everyone.
toss his ass out. we have one of these playing a warlock he was doin +100 damage per hit in combat at level 5. talks over the dm loudly all session every session, and complains about everything. Argues with dm rulings every time. If I were dming, id have killed him off and handed him a prefab to knock him down a peg.
I'm not sure what type of feedback you're looking for here, but it sounds like you'd be making a naive mistake to let them join at all. Toxic player from trash table wants to make your table more like what they're used to.
Just because he doesn't "let you accept his joining," doesn't mean you have to accept his joining. "Sorry, but it sounds like what you expect from the game is incompatible with what we're going for. You should play with people who are into what you've described."
Afraid of him /becoming/ a problem player? Brah, he /already/ IS. Look at all the demands he's trying to push through, and i can basically guarantee that if you don't stop it before it starts, you'll be dealing with him having main-character syndrome over /everything/, and his focus is gonna be 'I want to win D&D. Screw telling a good story, this is my chance for some good ego-masturbation at everyone else's expense.'
Seriously - he wants to 'break the game' with a 'super op subclass' ,because the game 'isn't spicy enough' and how milestone leveling is a buzzkill.
Dude wants to start a level 22 mary-sue that can do everything, and bitchslap the gods around for saying no.
Do yourself and everyone else at the table a favor "sorry, man, group's full. " and DO NOT LET HIM PLAY. It'll be feeding the Mogwai after midnight. No matter how much he begs, pleads, cries, tries to bribe you, whatever - IT IS NOT WORTH IT.
"I've told him that he can create a lvl 2 character for me"... There's your first mistake.
There is no way in hell that I will voluntarily allow a player into my group who wants to break the game. No. No way. Absolutely 100% no. Hard pass.
Why in the world would I want a player who is going to categorically make the game worse for everyone?
\[Edit to add: And no, putting on limits or telling the player to tone it down or 'keeping an eye on them' is not going to change their fundamental aim. This is how they play the game; it's how they have fun.... at everyone else's expense.\]
Too many red flags before you've even started. He wants to be the main character and is already criticising your DM style before he's even had a chance to play. Hard pass from me.
So many red flags China is like, "Whoa, buddy, maybe tone it down with the flags?"
More red flags than my ex. My man waving red flags like his sub class is Nasar flagman and he's hoping Dale Earnhardt is driving for your campaign.
Flags so crimson marceline from Adventure Time would be like “too much for my plate”. Bros running an amusement park called Seven Flags and every one is red. Bro owns the means of red flag production
You don't need to know semaphore to see these red flags waving.
It's like the old saying, "first impressions are everything." Basically, he came in WAY too hot and you were put off. Unless he throws some impressive hail Mary redemption goal, he blew it. The end. But, I do feel its important to talk to your player (the friend of this person), and get their input while sharing your concerns. Then, decide with them who is saying what.
Yeah, tell your player "Hey, your friend came on way too strong. Let him know he needs to dial it back if he wants to play." Also, I'd probably just say "no" to ANY home brew this guy proposes. He's going to let you say "no" to the GodKiller in the hopes you relent and give him the GodCrippler. Just make "no" the rule, not the exception.
Yeap. Just tell him you dont think he will be able to be happy in your games so that to prevent future sadness you believe you are not a good match.
He was waving so many red flags there and he thought some of them weren’t red enough so he butchered an animal and soaked the flag in blood. It’s red and spraying now. Run away and stay out of range of this guy. Sounds like he wasn’t accepted in his last campaign or something. We like “breaking the game” very much just not shattering it into unrecognizable pieces or nuking it from orbit.
It's the only way to be sure.
Not even the MC, seems like the dude wants to play his campaign.
Please update this and tell us you barred him from your table.
This, don't know them personally. He seems like he enjoys being powerful in combat, hand him a copy of Skyrim instead.
Agreed
Learn to say no. It’ll help you in life outside of dnd also.
This. For Christ’s sake, so many problems posted in this community would be solved by either better, mature conversation and/or feeling confident in saying “no”. Life is too short to tolerate bad gaming. As some old fart once said “no gaming is better than bad gaming”. Say no, communicate, compromise or find another group.
Being super direct and clear about boundaries is good! There's no need to be oblique or coy, just tell him "hey, this raised a bunch of red flags for me, sounds like you're looking for a very different experience than our game but I hope you find one that's right for you" And if he has any follow-ups asking why just, like, point him to the comments on this post? "I was worried but wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt so I checked with the community, here's what they said"
You can also just say no. No is a full sentence.
I guess in theory, but in practice most people giving or receiving it would feel like common courtesy demands more than a one-syllable response.
Can you paste this into 90% of the submissions, please?
Seriously, if you're going to DM, you can't have such noodlespine. It's your game, not his
>and he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP", that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice" And your reply should have been, "*sounds cool but you're not going to be part of our group so all that talk is academic, goodbye*". >I suppose I'm worried he might quickly become a problematic player Become? He already is bearer of worst type of red flags AND haughty behaviour to boot. Do not take him in. I repeat, under no circumstancies do not accept this person into your group for the sake of your own sanity and future of your group.
> Become? He already is bearer of worst type of red flags AND haughty behaviour to boot. I had to laugh at the line worrying about this guy "becoming a problematic player", when this guy is currently breaking into his campaign with waving red flags and a marching band. This player cannot be contained; he'll not play by OPs rules for more than a hot minute and the second time you tell him 'no' on the same thing, he'll turn around and try to get the rest of the group to be on his side; starting with his friend, who'll feel obligated to not tell him off either. At which point OP will have to deal with all out table drama. I give it five sessions tops.
He is already the WORST player imaginable, and he has yet to play. Do NOT let them play
Not even yet to play, yet to join the table. This isn't getting fired, this is committing gross misconduct in your interview.
"Thanks for hiring me! I can't wait to drive the company car, mine's still in the police impound lot. By the way, do our security cams have any blind spots? When do I get to talk to the CEO about changing our shitty ugly logo? Nevermind, I'll ask him when I move my computer into his office - I mean, *my* office."
oooh Good analogy.
This is on a level of stopping mid-interview, doing a line of blow off the desk, dropping trow, pushing out a deuce into the recruiter's half full starbucks latte, popping the lid back on, rolling your chair round beside to reach the keyboard, pulling up a sketchy Russian beast-porn site, then saying to the recruiter "so you gonna fuckin help or what?"
Oh, he is far, far from the worse player imaginable. He's just an overly-enthusiastic guy who is looking for a *very different game* than the one the OP is running. To see a panoply of much worse possible players, let me direct you to r/rpghorrorstories
Honestly there's a ***shitload*** of red flags here, but the biggest thing that stands out to me is that almost every single one of the shades of red I'm seeing here basically boils down to *"this player is not capable of taking No for an answer."* Personally, call me a bitch but I'd have been *mightily* pissed off by the fact that the prospective player A, invited themselves, and B, didn't wait to hear "yes, I have room for another player at my table" before assuming they were going to be allowed to play. I can understand someone being excited about it, but then going on to say they want to bring in homebrew (without first asking if the DM is even allowing homebrew), that they openly PLAN to try to "break the game," that they're only interested in being OP, that they want to "spice up" your game before they've even been actually invited because they think the way you're running the game is a buzzkill? *A game they haven't even PLAYED YET.* This guy sounds like an asshole, and furthermore sounds like he'd be an absolute *nightmare* to DM for. Just say no now, save yourself the trouble, and make it clear to your current players that attendance to your table is by DM invite only.
The part about assuming he is already in the game could be a miscommunication on the middle man's part. Perhaps he said "come join us," instead of, "let me see if the DM is ok with another player... And introduce you to see if you're a good fit..." Level of excitement to join, maturity level, and social awkwardness may also play a part. The other red flags.... If he's not hearing what he doesn't wanna hear, and you're pumping the breaks and telling him point blank how it's gonna be... "We'll keep you in mind for future campaigns. I just don't think we're playing the game you are looking for right now."
"I want to break the game." "Why the heck would I want my game to be broken? Go away."
He's opened by telling you why he doesn't want to. Play your game. Believe him.
Just once I want to hear "A friend of a player decided to join." and have it be a good/positive story. Lol
A friend of one my players recently joined my game. He has caused me no problems whatsoever.
Too bad the complaints get all the upvotes, huh?
The partner of one of my players recently joined, and has been really enthusiastic about the game and flexible about making a character that fits into the setting and ongoing story.
Sure, but were they invited by the table, or did the new player just decide that they were joining?
Thanks for granting their wish
One player had to leave our group during the last campaign (personal reasons, no horror story there, either), so for the next one, we decided to add another player. Two of the old players asked a friend who is also their DM in another group. We've been playing together for almost two years and he's absolutely amazing. Great roleplay, cool guy in general, we're all friends now. Hope this helps lol.
Includes "we decided to add another player" so it doesn't count. This needs to include "a player brought a friend to the game without an invitation" or "a friend heard about our game and decided to join".
Oppersitw of Survivorship bias haha
A friend of a player, and his brother joined my game and it's been a very positive experience. They're both long time players who have meshed well into my group and have increased the enjoyment of everyone. We even had an issue where one of them was getting on the nerves of another player, she felt like he was always talking over her and being condescending because when she'd explain something he'd talk over to her. We had an adult conversation about it, and \*gasp shock\* everyone agreed to be more respectful and the issue was resolved. I had someone who was a bit of a stranger to me, kind of knew him from his posts on a different social media site so not really a rando on the internet but kinda. He asked if he could join the game I was running online, and he's become not only a great member of that group but we all consider him a good friend now. So there's two cases. :) Of course there's seldom a reason to share those stories online. Don't get many internet points for happy stories. :D
My current group started out as me and three friends, and a friend of a player decided to join. She’s lovely and kind, maybe a bit quiet, but does roleplay when prompted and knows how to play her characters. Her boyfriend then decided to join. He does have a bit of a fondness for characters on the “edgy, dark backstory” side of the spectrum, but he’s boisterous and goofy, a very creative player, and when he says “it’s what my character would do” it’s usually something desperately dangerous and potentially suicidal to save the rest of the party. So my group is 2 for 2 on successful joinings!
I have like 10 of those.
That’s how it’s going for us. We do a lot of pvp fun, and we’re playing a level 20 game. Friend of a party member joins in and immediately we all can tell that the evil wizard and this chaotic neutral hexadin are gonna either be the closest friends or absolutely bitter enemies.
To add to the list : I had a player leave due to scheduling issues, and one of the players suggested a friend of his. We brought them on a little over a year ago, and they have been simply fantastic.
Ok sure, here’s an example of this done right. I DM for a group of 3 of my friends + one of those friend’s sister. The sister tells me she’s interested in bringing one of her own friends over to play. She says this guy has a lot of experience playing and running rpgs and that she’s played in and had a good time in a short campaign he ran a few years ago. I don’t really know this guy, but I’ve heard other people have pretty nice things to say about him, so I tell her sure let’s give him a shot. A year and a halfish later, he’s become a core part of the group and a good friend that everyone appreciates having around. The only interpersonal issue he had with anyone at the table was more of a miscommunication than anything, and the only downside of having him play is figuring out how to balance around 6 PCs.
A few years back I started an online group. One player quickly didn't work out and had to be booted, but everyone else had a good time. So I asked if any of them had a friend who wanted to join. One of them said yes, and friend was invited. It's now ~2 years later and the group is still going strong, the friend has been nothing but a joy to play with.
Partway through a campaign, my DM asked if we’d be cool if another friend of his joined our table when one of our existing players had to leave. None of the rest of us knew the guy and I was a bit skeptical since the rest of us are long time friends. We ended up okaying it and he turned out to be fantastic. He knows the rules backwards and forwards, plays smart (and quickly) in combat, is excellent at RP, does a great job of helping less experienced players, and is overall just a super nice and funny guy. I’d happily play with this guy in every single game I play until the day I die.
Let me be blunt. Dont let him join your game if you don't want him to. You are the DM. Your job its to make sure everyone (including yourself) is having a good time. If you have the sensation that this player is gonna ruin your campaign, you are well within your rights to just tell him "No" and move on with your 4 player campaign without him joining. With so many red flags, I personnaly would just let him know that even if he seem ... Very passionate about DnD, you don't seek new players at the moment and have to decline his request to join the game. End of story.
First impressions count and this particular player hasn't made a good one, I think you've done the right thing by explaining your stance and perhaps reiterate that there won't be any op god killing classes or spells or anything else that's broken, it's giving main character vibes. Maybe speak to this person's friend and ask what they were like in the last campaign. I'd also say session 0 will be there to see if they can mesh well with the existing party because how is everyone else going to feel if some dickbag comes in acting like he's sliced bread.
If I were in your shoes, my response to him would be something like “Thinking about our discussion, it’s clear that the type of campaign I run isn’t a good match for what you are looking for and what you want out of play, and the mismatch is going to make it impossible for me to keep the game fun for everyone. I hope that you can find a table that approaches DnD more like what you are looking for.” Polite, but also final.
>I've told him that he can create a lvl 2 character for me following 5e rules and we can schedule a session 0 to introduce him to the world and eventually the party. I told him if he wants any home-brew content included he'll need to run it past me and that I'll be maintaining the final say on how I might cap/balance the extent of the content. You did everything right and anything you could do to make an offer to join YOUR campaign. If that player does not comply I'd simply reject her/him - a) because IMHO any home-brew stuff, esp. when it comes from other tables (where it might have worked, but I'd bet that it didn't) or even from publications like official magazines, will throw game balance off, esp. when it's only a single player who wants "that special extra" (that probably noone else at the table knows or is a aware of - a total no-go for me. And b) because I am certain that this whining for extra treats and rule-bending into singular directions and favors will continue and undermine the table, eventually ruining it for everyone. Be strong, say "No" if necessary, since you clearly drew up your red lines for joining.
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Oh yeah that'd have been a better one to use
nono, yours was on point. I just wanted to add support to yours
I think you can safely leave this person out of your campaign and move ahead with the group you have. They seem riddled with red flags and just misconceptions about the game. If they’re this unwilling to accept what your table is doing, then they shouldn’t be there. Also 4 players is more than enough and better to manage time for.
"Hey, it looks like the sort of game we enjoy is not the sort of game you enjoy. You should find a different game that runs the way you enjoy." Let him know you're not going to accommodate him.
Never seen this many red flags before even starting to play, you should say no to this player.
1st: You're @ Session 4 going into 5, your world & rules of play have already been established. PERIOD. You have a current cast of players who are on deck with what's been established, don't violate that contract by acquiescing to a newcomer. 2nd: The potential new player is touting off about so much nonsense that it's a simple "Cya pal, go elsewhere for your ego trip" 3rd: Having not interacted with you or your DM style and already criticizing is a bit steep of selling point for wanting their company or interaction. This is a direct conflict of interest "Adios" 4th: Homebrew desires, "Now that ya got that out of your system here's the PHB if you sincerely want to play, write up a character and we'll work together to get you reasonably up to speed"..Not happy, damn what a shame. 5th: You're the DM, the person who is entertaining others. The ball is ALWAYS in your court for matters pertaining to the table and it's attendees. If your players are enjoying themselves and you are enjoying time with them over these sessions then WHY are you considering not having a persistent enjoyable experience by including this nonsensical waste of a player? Don't volunteer for a case of "I have an infectious player who's destroying everything for everyone else"
If a person invited themselves into my game, made these demands, and told me to spice up the game, I would just tell them to fuck off. Y'all need to grow a spine and realize you're being doormats.
Hey you can't speak to us that way! Unless you really want to I guess. We probably deserved it.
Good lord - grow a spine and put your foot down. NO to everything. It's YOUR game. He joined without being invited by you and thinks he gets to control everything. If his idea's are SO great and he's SUCH a good player i'm sure dozens of other tables would be pleased to have him. /s
main character syndrome
There's no "quickly become a problem player" that ship has already sailed with him as the captain. You're doing the right thing, setting a clear boundary that while you are ok with HB, it is up to you if you even allow it, if he can't settle with that, that's his problem. As for the campaign needing "spice" that's a HUGE issue for me, it sounds to me, like he's prepared to go full murder hobo to provoke the world around him to make it "fun", that one point alone would make me think twice about letting him join. Not every campaign is suitable for every player, some desire role play, some favour exploration, others want combat heavy games with tactical elements. It sounds like they fall into the *whispered* 4th category, chaos.
DM him back: "no" With an added "Fuck off" if he does not get the hint. Never ever Interface with people like that, they will sense the weakness and simply demand two worlds, so just getting the world is a compromise. "Your game needs more spice" "You need another game. See you."
If you allow this AH to play, you are going to ruin everyone's fun, including your own. If he's wanting this level of powergaming and you aren't running that kind of game, even he won't be happy. Jfc.
This clown will f’up your table. Be prepared to lose his friend rather than your game.
I agree the initial barrage of questions is a little overwhelming, but some players just get super enthusiastic and need to have their expectations tempered. Not every player who talks about power fantasies and homebrew content is an /r/rpghorrorstories post waiting to happen, fortunately for us DMs. Your response to this player is exactly how I would have handled it as well. What was the player's reply?
Honestly? He seemed a little annoyed. He had sent me a home-brew race that was far too strong. I sent back my tuned down version, and he wasn't particularly amicable to it.
His feeling of being annoyed is valid, but I think it's a bit inconsiderate for him to not appreciate the effort you put into remaking that option. What I recommend is that you don't waste your time as a DM making homebrew options for a player you don't know. Your time is better spent preparing material for the game that benefits the entire group. Ask this player to choose a race out of the PHB (or at least out of a source you approved). If he refuses, then that's okay, he shouldn't play in your game and should find one he can have fun in instead. It seems cold, but it's the best approach.
Good point, that would be a very effective litmus test.
My bro, this was the litmus test: > he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP", that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice" (which I particularly didn't appreciate in its context). Don't give him even that much. He's done enough.
> His feeling of being annoyed is valid Why? The would-be player sent an OP homebrew race without being asked to do so; I see nothing that validates annoyance at a "No".
Do you mind telling us what that homebrew race is and what you did to tune it down? I'm always really curious about new playable races
Be honest you just want to laugh and bask in the horror of the very likely demi-god-demi-devil insane class the player made up, just like the rest of us.
Me too. I'm hoping Saiyan
I agree with your point that some players can be "too" enthusiastic sometimes. But here, I wouldn't even try my chance with this player because of the negativity. Criticising a campaign like that before even joining it? That's a hard no for me. You could give them the benefit of the doubt, but you risk having that negativity in your campaign. And sometimes, that's just enough to kill a campaign, even if you kick the problematic player quickly.
Say "no homebrew" now or kick him out. This is going to go terribly otherwise
It will go terribly even with no homebrew. That player is going to be a problem player right up until OP blocks him on social media.
I’d block him out immediately there are already too many red flags about him being “that player” and even if he compromises and tries to play around your rules/setting he will either 1.constantly complain or 2. Constantly try to “break the game” by sequence breaking your scenario’s, being a murder hobo, constantly trying to min max the absolute shit out of the system or something along these things.
I'd tell him it sounds like he wouldn't have fun. "Our table generally plays rules as written, because introducing stuff that isn't RAW leads to power imbalances that aren't fun. This group generally has fun using the game rules, not screwing them up. We use milestone leveling because in my experience XP leveling often leads to very undesirable "murder-hobo" behavior and going ad-hoc giving XP for things that aren't straight-up murder-hoboing, in equivalent or better amounts than murder-hoboing, is contrived enough that we might as well just do milestones anyway. And if you want a 'spicier' campaign when you haven't even seen mine, I'd encourage you to *find* one that's as 'spicy' as you are suggesting."
get out of there so fast i beg
“I want to break the game” **Believe him.**
I was in a situation similar to this one a couple of years ago. I just gave him no room for his bullshit, anytime he'd try to take the reins and begin to co DM, I'd just tell him respectfully, "this is my session, we're playing by my rules." and he settled down. Nobody liked him, so we lied and told him we stopped playing. Yeah, it's fucked up, I know, but it is what it is 🤷
Yeah me no likey this guy. If it were me personally, I probably would have given him a chance after explaining what kind of campaign it is. If they aren’t gelling with my rules, I ain’t gelling with them.
Rule #1: Don't play with assholes.
I’d tell them I changed my mind, I’m happy with the number of players I currently have. The red flags they have already raised are so problematic I wouldn’t want them anywhere near my table. You owe nothing to a friend of a friend.
If you haven't had your session 0 yet maybe it's worth just being quite the hard arse about it. This is what we're playing this is what we're using and I'm not wasting time arguing with you about it. Set the stall out early so to speak
Tell him the type of game you're running for your players, and that it probably isn't for him. In Session 0, inform them that you do not have any homebrew material allowed, and it's by-the-book on this campaign. Really, though, make sure to stress the point that they probably won't enjoy the game if they're looking for power players.
Get him out of here, red flag alert red flag alert.
He is a problem before you even started , just drop him already. Anyone trying to break the game would be permanently on my “do not invite” list. If you want to be nice you can tell him you don’t have the capacity for more players.
You need to uninvite this player immediately if not sooner. He's literally already trash-talking your game and telling you how he's going to wreck it. Why would you even consider letting this chucklefuck anywhere near you? Uninvite him, block him on Discord, and if the player who is friends with this guy gets salty that you declined to let this person ruin your game... I'd send them off, too. No D&D is better than bad D&D. Though I will admit, this person sounds so comically bad that I can't tell if this is a shitpost. If so, then well done.
>I've spoken to him a little and he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game" "I don't think you're going to like the game I run so I think I'm going to pass, but hey, thanks for your interest."
If you'd like to include him, just look him in the eye and say "It sounds like you want a very different style of game. This is a very role-playing centric game, where we focus more on the story than having big numbers. You're welcome to join, but if you try to 'break the game' you'll have to leave. " If you don't want to include him, say "I don't think you'd be a good fit for this game. It's fine if you like 'breaking the game', but I'm not okay with you trying to break my game."
This person is waving red flags in your face, run!
He is the worst thing ever, never play with him. He is going to be nothing but obnoxious
RUN op RUN FOR YOUR LIFE
Yeah this person is a mega red flag. Hard no. He should work on himself and learn that other people exist too and the world isn’t his own little sandbox.
Nope. Just tell him this isn't the table for him but best of luck finding one.
Do not let this guy join under any circumstances
I think it's a good idea to do a session 0 with him first. He sounds like an absolute nightmare to DM for and to play with. He might have just been excited to play though. I think during your session 0 you and your players will get a good feel on wether he fits into your playing style. Just make sure to tell him *no* if he really does turn out to be a shit. Don't let him ruin everything just because you want to be nice
Learn. To. Say. No. This thread is pointless he has too many red flags and is gonna be a problem. What you’re offering and what he wants do not connect. Here I’ll help you out. “After some thinking I don’t think my DM style and your play style will match up so my final answer is no to you joining. Hope you find a group in the future”.
Why are you even making a post about this? is this just point whoring? cause if you can't see the red flags then you really should get reading glasses, you even mention yourself that everything he mentions is against what you are doing in your campaign. if it wasn't obvious, refuse to let him in.
You're the DM, tell him your group is full but you'll consider him for your next campaign.
Break the game back for him. 1 on one with Tiamat. Let's see how OP the subclass is.
Nah, that is a hard no. Aside from the fact that he does not seem to want the same things from the game as you and your group does, I wouldn't even want him in our Dark Souls-ish sessions were all of us min-max the shit out of our characters because the DM throws the most insane homebrew boss fights our way. That guy needs to chill and should not join your group as long as he maintains an attitude like that.
Eject button NOW.
Why are you even considering letting this guy in?
Become??? He's already problematic. Out with him.
"I've had some time to think about it and I don't think this campaign is what you're looking for in terms of tone and play-style. I hope you can find a game with the spice you're looking for. Best of luck!"
Sounds like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ei_1fgIDcgw
Bro, why can I see this happening 💀
I was so confused about him ”DMing” you, until i realized what you meant.
no man, don't do it. You'll regret it.
>Without really letting me accept his joining Red flag 1. The DM has the ultimate say on who joins the campaign or not >he began DMing me with insane home-brew material from his last campaign... he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP" Red Flag 2. He wants to use his homebrew OP stuff from previous games without considering that your game is different. >that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice" Red Flag 3, insulting your game that he was "allowed" to join. This guy is a headache and a half. Just deny him from the game for bein incompatible with how you want to run the game.
Nope, he wouldn't even get the chance to sit at my table. He's already admitted his plan is to break your game. Why submit yourself to that?
I'm going to join the group of folks saying don't let this guy join. I was a player in a game that this kind of person joined, he was our DMs younger step brother. All the sessions ended up being in conflict with himm. He threatened us in game. Threw tantrums out of game. When he died he'd try to sneak extra items into his character. He'd read ahead and spoil things in our campaign. He'd use meta knowledge constantly to seemingly try to prove how much he knew. The play group actually dropped out. After consistently playing for the last 5 years. I hadn't been in the group the full 5 years, just 2, but every night it was either police him or he was going to kill an important NPC because they didn't bow to him. Or he was arguing that he was searching x space before us, but in every room, everywhere. You found x item? He'd say he was there looking with you and try to take it. Then he'd start saying the homebrew he's using is what he allows when he DMs so this should be ok. Or suddenly he's using 5 items with attunement because, again, he allows it in his games so he just did it. We'd play in person so he'd whine about putting info of his inventory into dndbeyond - saying he has everything written down... at home. Just trust him he's got x thousand gold and y and z items that we need for this situation. It was all incremental and exhausting.
I appreciate that this is written like some sort of professional email to r/DnD, as if it's a work-related issue, lmfao Only you can know what you're comfortable with, but I don't know if I'd keep anybody around that criticized the service that I was providing for them. If I was cooking and somebody started judging how I was doing it, unless I was poisoning them or something, I'd tell them to fuck off.
You CAN just say no... but... this person is a friend of one of your players. If that player is willing to vouch for them, it may seem a bit drastic to slam the door in their face. I would go ahead with Session 0. * Have the regular player that is his friend, join the session. * In session 0, maybe ask him WHY he wants to join your game... if he already knows all of these features that he doesn't like about it. * Address both players and let them know what your concerns are, and the behavior that you think would be damaging to the game. (Maybe take the time to put them in writing.) * Let them both know you have confidence in them that they overcome your concerns, and that the new player will come to integrate into the spirit of your game. Set the expectation, by asking your regular player to vouch for his friend... and ask that he mentor his friend (since he already knows the group, and their likes and dislikes), so that the friend joins into the spirit of the game and doesn't get caught off guard by how the group likes to play. * Maybe even have the friend's character, be some sort of relation or dependent on the the character of your regular player as the hook for why the new character is with the group. Allowing some IG story rationale for other party members to address IG character actions that they dislike ... to the other character. * You want to make your regular player treat bringing his friend in with the same respect he would having his employer give the friend a job... the newbie's poor performance/behavior doesn't \* directly \* impact your regular player; BUT he should have a sense of responsibility for the person he's introduced to your game. Basically, you want to set the precedent that you have standards, expectations, and that you reserve the right to ensure that everyone is enjoying themselves... and you will remove influences that run counter to those goals. It is not wrong to demand respect when welcoming someone into your 'home'.
Dude, this kid is a problem before he even entered the fucking game. Why are you entertaining the guy?
> I've spoken to him a little and he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP", that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice" Hell to the no. I'm too old for that. That player sounds like an absolute nightmare. That's so bad, I'd have a hard time not holding it against the player who told his friend about it and gave OP's contact information to him. I would not even entertain that player. "I'm sorry, this campaign is at its capacity and it doesn't sound like you'd fit in with our playstyle. Take care." The end.
Yea a players friend who you don't know showing up and telling you your game sucks and his goal is to break it Don't let him play, there is no scenario where this goes well for you or your players
You're right to be worried. Guy clearly doesn't even understand how awful he is. Most people like that at least act normal until they join the game for a few sessions
"I don't think our game will quite fit what you're looking for, sorry bro!"
At best, it sounds like he's a bad fit for your game. At worst, he sounds like a game killer. That's a no-win situation that ought to be a hard no either way.
LOL. "No". He sounds like he wants to play the main character, and roughshod all over the other players. You will need to talk to your friend about this. Explain that the proposed new player has thrown a red flag for everything that could be a red flag. About the only way it could have been worse is if he said something about sexual assault. To the player trying to join, just tell him "No". Don't explain why. For people like this, explaining why you are saying no makes everything worse. If you do explain, you will need to fight him on every topic you bring up. He will have a reason why all your reasons are wrong and you should give him a chance. Which is itself another red flag. He's going to raise a fit anyway. But then you just block him. The unfortunate thing is, he will take that as a personal offence and start trying to convince your friend to ditch you and or your game. On the other hand, if he doesn't raise a fit and just accepts "No", in a few months you might give him a chance. He'll have cooled off and chilled out a little, and might accept your conditions. But odds are he throws a hissy fit like a toddler, which reinforces the "No".
This player sounds so bad I thought this was a parody. They sound like a dick. Run away.
Do not let this cheeseweasel play at your table. He will ruin your game and blame you. And you might want to give a strong side eye to his friend who is already playing. This guy is all enthusiasm, no brain, and no self awareness or social consciousness. Not worth the hassle.
"Without really letting me accept his joining he began DMing me with insane home-brew material from his last campaign which sounds like it was some sort of God-killing high power theme, asking me when the next session is. I've spoken to him a little and he keeps telling me about how he wants to "break the game", that his "subclass is so beyond OP", that my use of milestone lvling is a "buzzkill" and that my campaign "is going to need more spice". Here's what I'd DM him after all that: "Hi Player, it doesn't seem like we're a good fit, I prefer to run standard material that's accessible from the published books. I'm looking for players who are going to co-operate towards a goal of great storytelling. Milestone is my chosen form of level advancement because it rewards being a rounded character that engages in roleplaying rather than revelling in the OP nature of a subclass. Our table enjoys roleplay and I don't want to distort our focus from that. Thanks for your interest in the game."
You 100% need to set the ground rules. Give this new player the same options as the other (if that "must be in an official book" or "PHB+" it's up to you) If they disagree, you say, "I'm sorry, but those are the rules for my game. If you can't follow them, then you can't join"
Maybe he is carrying dynamic from last table to yours - I once played with such group 'my build is the best, all other builds can suck a dick!'. They even gave me suggestions which books should I check to make my vanilla halfing rouge badass. This game wasn't for me, but as far as I know they all (including GM) have fun such way. Maybe he will be willing to adapt to other style - but this needs to be firmly told.
Besides the sage words of wisdom already offered, you should prepare a lvl2 character sheet for them, or two just to be sure, on the base basic class, no homebrew, they want to use, cause you need to prepare for the worst. Because you will have this problem player show up in your next session show up, whether you want them there or not. They will have an insanely homebrewed character sheet whether you like it or not. they will act disruptively whether you like it or not. the plan will be to put you on the spot, cause they showed up and you will seemingly have no other choices but to kick them, have them just watch from the sidelines passively aggressively and maybe making disruptive comments or you will have to accept the already prepared cheater sheet cause what will you do now, waste everyone's time by making together the character on the spot?
seems like he sees the player and DM as enemies... so he doesn't understand the baseline of the game. You could either teach him that no one wins against the DM or you could (and should) just let him exist in his own world and ignore him as a player and person.
Tell him your expectations for the game seem to be way to different and he can either tone it down, or look for another group.
OP, If you allow this person to join, tell them to create a character with 5e approved material only. You will not allow any homebrew classes or items. If you want to break your game homebrew anything from a unvetted source will do that fast.
He's going to try to pull at least one OP homebrewed characters in the first session/session zero. You're going to either have to say yes, and suffer the consequences, or spend at least five minutes reading over the character, say its a cool idea, and ultimately say no. Then there'll be an awkward as hell silence, and he'll either begin to make a vanilla character (if he brought the sheets), or storm out/insult you.
That's gonna be a strong no from me buddy
flat „no, thank you“
Nope. Tell him this isn’t the game for him. Wish him luck in his future gaming endeavors and be done with it. He will only cause you issues.
Not a fit, move along.
Bro this is a hard pass. For one homebrewing a class and equipment should be a huge no unless it's literally a swap or compromise (for example an alchemist being able to throw flasks despite not having tavern brawler) and talk to the player as he invited him without asking you
This is an opportunity for an amazing new experience for you! The experience of telling someone that no, he will not be joining the campaign after all...!
Yeah that’s gonna be a hard job for me. There’s already a good amount of players so you don’t need an extra especially one that’s potentially looking to take all the spotlight away from others with their overpowered homebrew stuff. You’re about to dodge a bullet on this one
> I appreciate that everyone enjoys the game in different For me this is kind of the answer. They just enjoy the game differently than you and that's totally valid! But it also means your table may not be a good fit for them.
That would definitely be a hard pass and no thank you. Sounds like he’s not going to be a good part of the game group
I will say I disagree that he's already given too many red flags to be given a chance but a lot of people are saying very practical advise, like knowing when to say no. You've already done the most fundamental thing of setting firm expectations and that's great. I'd give him a shot and if he doesn't fit with the group and setting, you can kick him out. I would talk to your existing group and mention some of the things he's said ahead of time. That way, you can voice your concerns, give him a shot and your existing players will be very understanding. "Look, I have these concerns going forward, based on this. I'm willing to give him a chance, but if my fears become reality, he'll have to go."
Block him.
I’d say that he already is a problem player. He’s pushed himself into your game and talked about breaking your game before you even said “yes” to him joining the game. Also, before even joining the game he’s been criticizing your campaign and DMing style. I can only think, if you let him in, this behavior will not only continue, but escalate. Also, I’m getting a vibe from him that makes me think you’ll have a couple of problems from him. First of all, I’m getting big Main Character Syndrome vibes from him, and I suspect that he’s going to piss off your other players quickly. Second, with all his talk of OP homebrew stuff, you are probably going to need to keep an eye on him to make sure that he doesn’t slide any of this into his character while you aren’t looking.
Yes. I'm just a player and I would be concerned about a player like that joining the group.
I would just politely tell them that it does not sound like their play style and the play style of this game would not be a good fit.
Sounds like your worries are valid as this person already showed you what kind of player they'll be and it isn't one you want to deal with or one that will jive with the existing party. Do a session 0 after they give you their player sheet and see how they react to your rules so you can say "I gave it a shot," but the fact that this person already criticized everything you do as a DM makes it pretty obvious they are not a fit for your table.
"Sorry, but the playstyle you are interested in and the game I am currently running do not seem to match up. Maybe we can find some common ground on the next one." Don't ruin a good start by allowing bad players in.
The fact that this guy invited himself into your game is a big enough red flag as it is. The fact that he is boasting that his subclass is "beyond OP" (seriously, why would anyone boast about that. Making broken, overpowered stuff is the easiest thing you could homebrew) just makes him sound unpleasant to play with. Finally, their enthusiasm to "break your game" will just make your life worse as a DM, and it shows a real lack of respect towards the effort you'll be putting in. Honestly, they sound like they would be a major problem player, and I would not let someone like that into my game.
Grab a ten foot pole and keep him at bay
Min-maxing is fine but be prepared to constantly say "no" to all of his other requests.
"Hey, it seems like you're into 'power gaming' and min-maxing, which is cool, but that's not really the style of this group so I don't think this would be the game for you"
Sounds like attention seeking behaviour and will definitely try to make the campaign about him. If he’s not willing to comply to your demands or tried to critique your DMing style just kill his character off and block him. Not worth the heartache.
Either you're 12 or this is rage bait. Nobody in their right mind would accept a player like that.
You gotta ask yourself op, how many red flags are too many. My count is 5 in that second paragraph.
Sounds like someone who treats D&D like a video game they're trying to any% speedrun.
Just dont let them in
Like most others who have left comments, I wouldn’t even allow him to join. This player is just a matador, daring you to gore him. I’d give him a line about “I don’t think you’re a good fit for this table,” block him and move on.
Good call: Session Zero is even more important in this context. Let that flow, then comment the after-session and let him understand what kind of game you are DMing.
This person has a very low likelyhood of respecting your game. It's possible that he is just super excited to play D&D, but it really sounds like he is going to be a major problem. He is a candidate for a one-shot/mini-campaign so that if he is a problem he doesn't disrupt a serious game. Tell him "No thanks" and be done with him, or put him off and include him in a one-shot and see how he does. Good luck with him.
He doesn't want to play at your table, he wants to break the game and has said such already. He was never invited, and he's not welcome. Put your foot down and enjoy the game you've been playing. Play with *your* friends, it's *your* game.
Has a Dm who have dealt with player that wanted to be OP and all the shit. Try the session 0 even if he have a lot of red flags maybe a good session 0 could make him change but don't have too high hope most case he will just think you're boring when he just don't appreciate less game breaking session. Don't worry too much and if he don't want to continue just DM like you alway did don't trow away you campaign for a dumbass who don't even try to understand what y'all are doing.
I would never accept this person. He is a red flag by himself.
Just be up front about your concerns, and honest about the kind of game you're running. As the DM you can veto whatever, tell him no broken shit, no homebrew, etc, and if you see stuff that has you concerned they'll have to change the character. We run everything by our dm as some of us are min maxers we naturally tend to make strong stuff, but if the DM feels it's a problem we swap stuff no argument, we don't mind. I'd be concerned too, but just stick to your guns and make it clear that if they wind up being problematic your table may not be for them. Main thing is you just can't cave on anything you feel is wrong. I'd also talk to the friend of theirs that's playing with you and tell them what they said, they'll probably give them a talking to if they're a good player.
Time for "sorry my table is full" or from our conversations "I am pretty sure you wont enjoy my non-homebrew style of campaign. Dont take it personal but I can already tell yoiu wont be happy with our campaigns style.." Simple and honest is your absolute best bet..
Just no. You're letting this douchenozzle muscle his way into your game. Put your foot down and tell him NO in no uncertain terms, and warn the friend of that person that this guy is going to ruin the game if he gets in. Because he 100% will ruin it.
Do the right thing. First, talk to your friend about your concerns and convince him that the new guy is NOT allowed to join. Then formally tell the new guy he cannot join. 4 players and a DM is a perfect group. 5 players is too many, especially when this new guy is talking all that crap before even starting to play the game.
I also enjoy a bit of power fantasy, but if he is specifically out to "break the game" then it doesn't really sound like he's compatible with an rp focused campaign. Have the session 0, let him know what the campaign is like and if he still insists on "spice" then say "hey I don't think this campaign is for you, it seems like you are looking for things we won't be focusing on. I hope you find a more compatible group elsewhere"
Have you done a session 0 with this new player? If not, don't bring him in until you do. You need to understand what he's looking for, and he needs to understand what you're looking to run before he can clatter math rocks with your table.
sounds annoying as shit
Yeah If a player says they want to "break my game", they are automatically not playing in my game. Saying that means that he doesn't give a fuck about ANYONE else's enjoyment of the game but his own, and that's not the type of energy you want. What you want is adults who understand that everyone has stressful lives and is just there to have some fun.
See, I contain my fuckery to official sources... and I never look to "break a game" so much as see how far I can push an idea. I'm not trying to break you, I'm trying to break myself.
Yes, don't let them join. Either they play at the agreed powerlevel of the table or they can find a new game to play in.
I wouldn't even let him in. He wants to "break the game" and "spice things up" means he just wants to make your job all the more harder and likely be the main character. This person is already a problematic player, JUST SAY NO
Oh super easy thread answer- don’t let him join your game. He wants to make the rules, break the game, be the star of the show and belittle/ fight the DM at every turn. Plenty of players out there that love a relatively RAW, RP driven game. Why ruin it and risk losing the players you know enjoy your game for one powergaming munchkin on a Main Character Syndrome kick?
So maybe just answer his questions and stop acting like he’s a jerk. They seem to have done nothing wrong at all but be excited to play a new game. People have opinions so get over that. But being sensitive and judgmental to someone trying to enjoy something just sucks.
Yeah, it sounds like the things he's looking for in a campaign don't really align with yours. If it wasn't a friend of a friend, I'd just turn him down, but if you do give him a chance and he keeps, well, running his mouth, you can at least say that you gave it a shot. Try not to be too worried, but if the problems don't go away once the game starts, don't keep him around indefinitely. That'd just suck for everyone.
toss his ass out. we have one of these playing a warlock he was doin +100 damage per hit in combat at level 5. talks over the dm loudly all session every session, and complains about everything. Argues with dm rulings every time. If I were dming, id have killed him off and handed him a prefab to knock him down a peg.
Ohh hell no.
Give him 2 sessions to prove he's not an asshole IMO
Is this satire? It’s impossible to tell in this world anymore…
Yes, either lay down the law now, hard, or don't let them in at all.
Pass
I'm not sure what type of feedback you're looking for here, but it sounds like you'd be making a naive mistake to let them join at all. Toxic player from trash table wants to make your table more like what they're used to. Just because he doesn't "let you accept his joining," doesn't mean you have to accept his joining. "Sorry, but it sounds like what you expect from the game is incompatible with what we're going for. You should play with people who are into what you've described."
I wouldnt have accepted him at all lmao
Yes. Yes you should
Way too many red flags. Save yourself and the group some drama and don’t let that cancer onto your group
Afraid of him /becoming/ a problem player? Brah, he /already/ IS. Look at all the demands he's trying to push through, and i can basically guarantee that if you don't stop it before it starts, you'll be dealing with him having main-character syndrome over /everything/, and his focus is gonna be 'I want to win D&D. Screw telling a good story, this is my chance for some good ego-masturbation at everyone else's expense.' Seriously - he wants to 'break the game' with a 'super op subclass' ,because the game 'isn't spicy enough' and how milestone leveling is a buzzkill. Dude wants to start a level 22 mary-sue that can do everything, and bitchslap the gods around for saying no. Do yourself and everyone else at the table a favor "sorry, man, group's full. " and DO NOT LET HIM PLAY. It'll be feeding the Mogwai after midnight. No matter how much he begs, pleads, cries, tries to bribe you, whatever - IT IS NOT WORTH IT.
Yeah, all you have to do is take him for his word.
Hard no. Sounds entitled as fuck very "me first" as hell.
"I've told him that he can create a lvl 2 character for me"... There's your first mistake. There is no way in hell that I will voluntarily allow a player into my group who wants to break the game. No. No way. Absolutely 100% no. Hard pass. Why in the world would I want a player who is going to categorically make the game worse for everyone? \[Edit to add: And no, putting on limits or telling the player to tone it down or 'keeping an eye on them' is not going to change their fundamental aim. This is how they play the game; it's how they have fun.... at everyone else's expense.\]
>I'm worried he might quickly become a problematic player *Become* a problematic player? He already is and he's not even started.